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Thread: Terminology Repulsion
10-24-2014, 04:52 AM #1
I have a class with a very down to earth Psych professor who has a fun wit about her. First off, no, not trying to game her, but I do enjoy the angles a Doctor of Psychology has on things. One of the lectures she gave was about love/relationships/how they start. After class I talked to her and let her know I'm a fan of the subject of love and relationships and that it's like a hobby. We get into the topic of pickup and about how it's a cool group of guys helping other men learn how to create relationships. During this conversation I threw out some terms like "target" and told her what the "newbie drills" were. She said that she felt a repulsed by men calling a girl a "target." And that it was "so animalistic." Now, I really believe that pickup is a great tool which improves lives for both the men AND the women who get to know each other through this. I shouldn't feel a single shred of guilt or shame about self-improvement.
No, I'm not asking her approval or even to like this field/body of knowledge. What's the correct attitude that I should have and has anyone else had an experience similar to this. I told her it was just an arbitrary word to shorten the idea of "a girl a guy particularly likes." and that in no way is meant to be degrading or demeaning to women. By the way, she didn't object at all to calling an ugly girl a "warpig" so go figure.
10-24-2014, 03:13 PM #2
As you say, it's an arbitrary word. You don't have to be ashamed, but you don't have to take pride on it, either. So if someone feels bad with the use of the word, and you care about having a comfortable conversation with that someone, I think there's no harm in changing terminology.
Don't see it as a game of power or value - because which word you use is something you got from somewhere, it's not something that expresses your personality, in this case. You are conceding a thing which is not your own (so you have no real loss) so you can have a better conversation. "I don't care, we can change it for now if it pleases you."
It would be different if you wrote a book and showed it to someone and that someone said "HEY I FIND YOUR BOOK TITLE OFFENSIVE BECAUSE X, YOU SHOULD CHANGE IT" - in this case changing it might be a hit in your expression, so you should only agree to do that if there are good arguments that convince you that, "hey, yeah, actually that book title is not good according to the values I have, thanks for pointing that out and helping me". In other words, you should not change it to please them, you should change it because of rational arguments that convinced you.
On a side note, I get why a women wouldn't like to be called a target. Think about what you would feel if two salesman were talking about you and dicussed which one would try to sell some stuff to that target. It's not terrible, but it's not a good thing to hear, either. If we could have new jargon with less military and more social connotations, that would be good.
Last edited by Gust_; 10-24-2014 at 03:17 PM.
10-24-2014, 04:29 PM #3
Thanks Gust, off topic, I hope sarging in Brazil is EXACTLY as awesome as I imagine it to be =D. Say hi to Alana Campos for me.
10-27-2014, 11:25 PM #4
Gust_ is spot-on here.
They are indeed arbitrary words used to simplify explanations, but women can and will be offended by some of the terminology. I personally think that the PUA community would be much better off if we could somehow do away with some of the more misogynistic terms and expressions that are left over from the days when pick-up was just a secret thing that men discussed on newsgroups. It would help the public view of the community/industry as a whole, as well as helping newcomers to the game to shift away from the largely negative mindsets that a lot of scorned men enter the community with. But as it is right now, I would definitely avoid using a lot of PUA terminology when talking to women about pick-up.
There is also another important lesson here: a good speaker calibrates his choice of words based on his audience. You probably wouldn't use the same language in front of a hiring manager as you would your friends, and you would probably use different language again when speaking in front of a group of strangers. As Gust_ said, it's not about power or value, it's choosing the appropriate language to effectively convey your point in a way that is most comfortable to the listener. Thankfully, practice and experience in the game will help you develop a sense for what kind of language/terminology is most appropriate for the person/people you are talking to.
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10-28-2014, 12:01 AM #5
Thanks for the insight Prophet. In one of my psyche classes, we go over how in our normal language, there are many forms of racist and sexist DICTIONARY words and phrases. I'm just going to have to accept that PUA terminology isn't "perfect" in that sense either. And good insight about "helping newcomers to the game to shift away from the largely negative mindsets that a lot of scorned men enter the community with." I guess that is inner game stuff that needs to be worked on.