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  • Mystery on VH1 and why the community isn't ruined

    Sorry to be so busy lately, I've been sequestered doing product development out in California. So I've had my head down writing, filming, recording, etc.

    As you guys have heard - and as has been rumored for months - Mystery is going to be on a VH1 show. In fact, an entire season has already been filmed and we are expecting that it will be very successful.

    This show was in the works from even before the Savoy days, and the contracts were in place a long time ago - so please don't "blame" Venusian Arts for the fact that this TV show is going to happen. We had no power to stop it by the time we had taken control of things.

    Not that it's a bad thing. It's actually funny to me when I hear people whining that somehow pickup is going to be "RUINED" because "EVERYONE" will find out about the community. This is a sad, tired argument that used to be lobbed at Style when he was about to release his book THE GAME.

    The truth is, women will always be trying to hook men, and men will always be trying to hook women. The cover of every men's magazine, every month, promises some sort of tips about how to get women. The cover of every women's magazine, every month, promises some tips on how to get men.

    Try to argue with this: Everyone knows that if you are in really good shape, that you will have a lot more sexual options. If you work out in the gym, keep the fat off, and build your muscles, you will DEFINITELY do better with the ladies. Everyone in the world knows this. But notice how most men STILL DON'T TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT?

    I am willing to bet that the knowledge of pickup will never reach the same levels as the knowledge of health and fitness.

    Most guys don't like the idea of pickup. They think it is weird, or immoral, or that it could never work. Of the few guys who DO believe that pickup could work, most will never actually practice it. (JUST LIKE guys who don't go to the gym even though they know it will drastically improve their love life.)

    So don't be a little bitch all scared that somehow Style's book or Mystery's VH1 show are somehow going to totally destroy the community. It's just not true and in fact it's a bit paranoid.

    In fact, if you turn on VH1 right now you will probably see a show about some "ladies man" guy showing dorky guys how to meet girls. VH1 airs shows like that ALL THE TIME and in fact I just saw one recently.

    One more thing - canned material is not supposed to be copied from other guys. You are supposed to MAKE UP YOUR OWN CANNED MATERIAL. So even if all the canned material in the whole world was exposed, and every guy in the world memorized it, it still wouldn't hurt you because you are supposed to make up your own canned material. GET IT? So what could possibly get exposed that would hurt your game in any way? Please tell me you aren't still out there using the best friends test.

    Furthermore, once you reach mastery level of the game, like I definitely have, you don't have to use any canned material at all. I run my game COMPLETELY FREE-FLOW - it's just my attitudes and personality. People would never guess that I am a pickup artist. I just come off like a cool guy. The same should be true of you... so there is nothing to "expose".

    Don't get paranoid about the TV show, it won't hurt the game in any way. A year from now I will still be able to walk into any bar and pull cute girls. Some things will never change. Being attractive will not suddenly go out of vogue because of some TV show.

  • #2
    Thanks for taking the time to adress this issue. Nobody watches VH1 anyways.

    Satan

    ps. calling yourself a master is a bit egosistical...it's an artificial definition.

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't really know about the metaphor to going to the gym. In my college, almost every decent looking guy works out and try to take care of their body. But then again, pick up is way harder than working out. To be able to conquer AA is probably five times harder than benching your own weight. Working out is about physical pain and sarging is about spiritual pain. We all know that spirtual pain is way harder to handle than physical.

      Comment


      • #4
        Yeah good post Love Drop.

        I say more power to the VA Crew and all it's endeavors. I posted it in another thread that if you just get out into the field and sarge/learn/sarge by the time the show comes out you should have a good foundation built.

        Game has always been around. I'm sure old Casanova stirred up some controversy and "ruined" it for many a man when he wrote his memoirs.

        It's only ruined if you have a weak frame to begin with. The strong will rise above and prosper and will find opportunity where others will only see defeat.

        Be one of the strong!

        Comment


        • #5
          I agree with LoveDrop except for the working out comparision. Like khenak said, pick up is ALOT harder than working out. When you decide to get into shape, you have total control over the outcome. Pickup isn't quite that simple. I've always been in good shape, it didn't help me much. I've studied pickup for 2 years reading various ebooks and I have used some of the techniques and strategies in the field with very little success so far. I takes alot more practice than most newbies realise.

          I hope the show is very successful. I'm going to tell my friends and family about it and let them know I was part of it before it went mainstream. I'm not at all afraid of the show becoming popular because I wasn't getting laid before discovering VA and I hasn't gotten me laid since, so It hasn't taken a thing from me.

          The guys that have gotten laid from using VA should be fine. They've obviously internalized the proper steps to take without fucking up. So in my opinion, noone's losing anything.
          Last edited by NiteTime78; 06-28-2007, 10:37 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Lovedrop View Post
            Sorry to be so busy lately, I've been sequestered doing product development out in California. So I've had my head down writing, filming, recording, etc.
            What a lovely, student-funded lifestyle.

            As you guys have heard - and as has been rumored for months - Mystery is going to be on a VH1 show. In fact, an entire season has already been filmed and we are expecting that it will be very successful.
            So successful that "everyone" will know how this game works.

            This show was in the works from even before the Savoy days, and the contracts were in place a long time ago - so please don't "blame" Venusian Arts for the fact that this TV show is going to happen. We had no power to stop it by the time we had taken control of things.
            Mystery signed the contract himself, did he not? Didn't you? I didn't know they had indentured servitude in Hollywood. Good to know that this was done against your will.


            Not that it's a bad thing. It's actually funny to me when I hear people whining that somehow pickup is going to be "RUINED" because "EVERYONE" will find out about the community. This is a sad, tired argument that used to be lobbed at Style when he was about to release his book THE GAME.
            This is phase two of the same process: the book, the reality show, then the movie, etc. The cumulative effect of this is devastating to those who want secrecy. Defenders of the stock market bubble said the doomsayers were wrong for years, and then 2000 hit.


            The truth is, women will always be trying to hook men,
            They were trying to do that in 1998 as well. If it didn't help them then, why should this fact suddenly help them now?


            and men will always be trying to hook women.
            Men were trying that too in 1998, but it didn't seem to help either.


            The cover of every men's magazine, every month, promises some sort of tips about how to get women. The cover of every women's magazine, every month, promises some tips on how to get men.
            And every website seems to make similar promises these days.

            Try to argue with this: Everyone knows that if you are in really good shape, that you will have a lot more sexual options. If you work out in the gym, keep the fat off, and build your muscles, you will DEFINITELY do better with the ladies. Everyone in the world knows this. But notice how most men STILL DON'T TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT?
            Men don't take advantage of it at all times, but many men are fitness-conscious. Still others already have girlfriends or don't feel the need to improve their options since they are already satisfied. It's not "game" to tell a guy to lift weights, either. Killing a method that required a few witty routines and replacing it with hard labor is not exactly an equal exchange.

            Many men also haven't internalized just how much of an edge weightlifting is. Still others aren't physically capable of doing it, even if they look healthy on the surface. Bad analogy. The better analogy is the card-counting one since it doesn't have a physical component. How many card-counters are beating the casinos these days?


            I am willing to bet that the knowledge of pickup will never reach the same levels as the knowledge of health and fitness.
            It doesn't have to for it to devalue the methods. Being called out in field will destroy a PUA's chances, but being "called out" in the gym won't make a bodybuilder's muscles disappear. Again, bad analogy.


            Most guys don't like the idea of pickup. They think it is weird, or immoral, or that it could never work. Of the few guys who DO believe that pickup could work, most will never actually practice it. (JUST LIKE guys who don't go to the gym even though they know it will drastically improve their love life.)
            This is a lot less work than weightlifting. If it was never workable for most guys, it was never the solution people thought it was. If it IS the solution it's marketed to be, then the secret is getting out and it's devalued. Guys don't like the idea of it because they don't want to confront what women are really like. Seeing that on video, however, rather than reading about it in The Game, is going to get the message home a lot more effectively.

            No one considers this, but what if it goes the other way and we learn that it wasn't the methods at all, but the fact that they were being used by guys rich enough to afford workshops who were actually getting laid with looks and money? Video is a much more accurate medium than text for demonstrating this.


            So don't be a little bitch all scared that somehow Style's book or Mystery's VH1 show are somehow going to totally destroy the community. It's just not true and in fact it's a bit paranoid.
            Nice little insult directed at people who spent thousands learning "secret" info and who might be peeved that the secret is getting out. That the insult is coming from the person who profits most from the secret getting out is even more telling.

            I would say men who think that the methods won't be further devalued (they are already markedly devalued, which is why you need money/job/car/etc. to make them work now), is in denial.


            In fact, if you turn on VH1 right now you will probably see a show about some "ladies man" guy showing dorky guys how to meet girls. VH1 airs shows like that ALL THE TIME and in fact I just saw one recently.
            Each of these shows contributes to the information getting out there. They aren't isolated incidents, but part of a collective process by which picking up women is hitting the mainstream. It's not like everything reset to the pre-Style days just because there are some more of the public left to inform. Style's book hasn't even been out two years.

            Do the men here think they might have some advantage if they could take these methods back in time and use them in say 1994? If so, why?


            One more thing - canned material is not supposed to be copied from other guys. You are supposed to MAKE UP YOUR OWN CANNED MATERIAL
            A guy doesn't have to pay a guru to be told to do that, or to do that.


            So even if all the canned material in the whole world was exposed, and every guy in the world memorized it, it still wouldn't hurt you because you are supposed to make up your own canned material. GET IT?
            As more men do this, and get laid, what replaces the women who lay them? Do the women become "sexual milking cows" who fuck all day and night until every guy with game gets his lay? Or is the chick you would have gamed busy fucking the last guy to game her and in love with him so you don't even have a shot?

            With extra men in the game, either you can't get her because she's already gamed, or he can't keep her because game doesn't keep them.


            [quote]So what could possibly get exposed that would hurt your game in any way? Please tell me you aren't still out there using the best friends test. [quote]

            What hurts is the structure being released. The SAT people used to have this argument, that the test changes every year, so you can't study for it. The SAT prep course people point out, correctly, that if the test didn't adhere to a certain structure, you wouldn't be able to compare scores from different years, so there obviously is a structure.

            As for what can hurt one's game? Oh, let's say a couple is on their honeymoon, watching the show "for laughs" and the bride starts hearing the routines that were used on her to "game" her. Guys who are stuck in LTRs won't have any escape from this or defense against it. Daddy finds out, and it's "you did WHAT to my precious little angel?"

            It sounds like when you're trying to recruit students, this is an easy method to learn and implement, but when you're trying to allay fears of overexposure, it becomes so difficult that 95 percent of men could never make it work.

            Which is it? The 95 percent failure rate that makes the method weak, or the high success rate that makes overexposure inevitable?

            Furthermore, once you reach mastery level of the game, like I definitely have, you don't have to use any canned material at all. I run my game COMPLETELY FREE-FLOW - it's just my attitudes and personality.
            Or his money, his status, connections to Hollywood, etc. If it's attitude and personality he'd be getting the same chicks when he's 80 that he gets now.


            People would never guess that I am a pickup artist. I just come off like a cool guy.
            Cool guys don't blow their own horn so loud they wake the neighbhors. If the AFC at your table has learned what the methods are, he can fill the chick in on what you're doing, as can her dad, her brother, best friends, etc.

            The same should be true of you... so there is nothing to "expose".
            If there is nothing to expose, there was nothing to teach and nothing to sell.


            Don't get paranoid about the TV show, it won't hurt the game in any way. A year from now I will still be able to walk into any bar and pull cute girls.
            Sure, by flashing cash and showing them the TV show that is based on your life. That doesn't transfer so easily to the rank-and-file, but they'll learn that soon enough as they try to replicate the results of the gurus who run "hot game."

            Some things will never change. Being attractive will not suddenly go out of vogue because of some TV show.
            What will change is that what is required to be attractive will be even more than it was in the past, since more and more guys will meet the old definition. Just like it was a lot easier to become a chess champion in 1895 than in 1995 because the moves played back then were far weaker.

            Comment


            • #7
              So.... do they call you [b]Navy[/b] because every day you take in three square meals, and all the rough gay sex you can handle?

              /Sorry
              //Not Really
              ///Obligated to Troll your Trolling
              ////Could muster a point by point argument as well, but this is faster

              Comment


              • #8
                I do agree with the fact that the girls will be harder/smarter about it if they are aware of this "pick up artist" tactic. The pick up lines they are obviously exposed to. Mainly it won't matter to guys that are already good, but the guys starting off will have a tougher uphill battle.

                For example time constraints or opinion openers can be something detectable and made harder to open with. So dating is just going to have to evolve again if too many girls catch on. Just like the 3 day rule to wait before calling is too cliche these days.

                To say that exposing this to the media public is not going to make a difference is ridiculous, but to say that it will ruin the game is ridiculous to. Personally i think it would be better for them not to have it go mainstream, just like how Style chose to not make the movie about The Game come out.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Good points Navy, as an AFC I won't even try any canned routines cuz this who idea of canned material being exposed has added another fear to my AA. Now I don't think it's worth it because I wanted to rely on canned then make my own.. I won't be able to take that step ever to get to a level where I wanted to. More people will refer to these terms and will know what's really going on.. will be easier to search out websites, bootcamps and forums for such material and the GURU's who once stood by us to teach will stand by to make profits while we will rott like the olden days.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Navy236 View Post
                    What will change is that what is required to be attractive will be even more than it was in the past, since more and more guys will meet the old definition.
                    Navy236. Go out and get laid. The fact that you write such long posts imply that you dont have a life away from your keyboard.

                    Thanks lovedrop for filling in the details. I look forward to watching the VH1 show and seeing Mystery demonstrate his method. It would be easier than buying the DVD set sold by Savoy and his company.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Some of you beginner guys are already fearing something before even trying canned material.

                      Then try it after the show's been on air.

                      The next thing you know you'll realise it's not what you say but how you say it.

                      So even if the girl's been approached by the same pickup lines or whatever, your delivery will make you stand out.

                      And there's always the awesome damage control tactics to be learned.

                      To learn the latter, seriously, get hold of Mystery's programmes or DYD's Approaching Women and Mastery. He talks about this sort of shit amongst other likeminded dating gurus.

                      Who the hell watches VH1 anyway? Who's gonna listen that Mystery will pickup your sister/girlfriend? And why are some so hung up on the idea of guys making money out of PU? Is $2000-$2500 a limit that everyone voted for? Didn't Style "expose" the community which in essence brought more people under its wing and women ... well, they're what they were thousands of years ago - a bit more sophisticated and socialised, but they're still women.

                      Learn the psychology, not just the canned robotic tactics. It's deep and so f*cking fascinating.

                      There's no such thing as fear. It's all in your head. Go use whatever material you want: they're just training wheels and who cares if you get blown out? You scared? Failing is a process of learning to master this sh*t.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Nothing's changed what is considered as attractive. It's not a choice.

                        Most of it is non-verbal cues. Sexual communication. Character traits. Attitudes, beliefs, and other attributes. How you communicate these to attract a women is up to you - no PU TV show will change what the nature has "designed" for all us to pass out genes to future generations.

                        Don't be afraid and go out and get laid.

                        Period

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Greystoke View Post
                          Navy236. Go out and get laid. The fact that you write such long posts imply that you dont have a life away from your keyboard.
                          Great advice from the guy who READ those posts LOL

                          I'd take his advice, but now that I'm 87 years old and have fucked 80,000 women, I really need a break if it's okay!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 666 View Post
                            Some of you beginner guys are already fearing something before even trying canned material.

                            Then try it after the show's been on air.

                            The next thing you know you'll realise it's not what you say but how you say it.

                            So even if the girl's been approached by the same pickup lines or whatever, your delivery will make you stand out.

                            And there's always the awesome damage control tactics to be learned.

                            To learn the latter, seriously, get hold of Mystery's programmes or DYD's Approaching Women and Mastery. He talks about this sort of shit amongst other likeminded dating gurus.

                            Who the hell watches VH1 anyway? Who's gonna listen that Mystery will pickup your sister/girlfriend? And why are some so hung up on the idea of guys making money out of PU? Is $2000-$2500 a limit that everyone voted for? Didn't Style "expose" the community which in essence brought more people under its wing and women ... well, they're what they were thousands of years ago - a bit more sophisticated and socialised, but they're still women.

                            Learn the psychology, not just the canned robotic tactics. It's deep and so f*cking fascinating.

                            There's no such thing as fear. It's all in your head. Go use whatever material you want: they're just training wheels and who cares if you get blown out? You scared? Failing is a process of learning to master this sh*t.
                            This is my LAST post until the VH1 boards open up, since they're neutral. Once those boards are in place it will be a lot easier to explain what's really going on and about to happen. I admire the free speech here because it's rare, but I have to wonder how much Mystery has cashed in to reach the point where he allows it. Just the same, I don't want to keep pushing its limits because this board is about his method and it's his home.

                            For now, all I'll say is that the men here are stuck on the hammer-nail problem. They have a hammer (the method) and start looking at everything as if it were a nail. You assume that because some guys told you that PUAs get laid, that being a PUA is the way to still get laid.

                            Would you stay a PUA if all of a sudden you saw AFC men getting the 10s? That won't happen, but if the guy is something that isn't an AFC, and isn't a PUA, and is a type of guy who exists in reaction to all this stuff going mainstream, he'll be using theory that's as alien to you as PUA theory was to an AFC.

                            You can be talking about kino, comfort, negs, LMR, etc., and this new guy's biggest problem might be figuring out which hotel to fuck his 10 at with a method you never heard of and a structure you can't comprehend.

                            The road less traveled avoids the Red Queen.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If there is nothing to expose, there was nothing to teach and nothing to sell.

                              What will change is that what is required to be attractive will be even more than it was in the past, since more and more guys will meet the old definition.

                              The OBVIOUS thing, the thing those with an interest in selling obsolete material won't tell you, is that a new game has started, one with different rules and an entirely different paradigm. Just as the PUA exploited weaknesses in the AFC, it is now possible to exploit the PUA's weaknesses just as easily. Instead of getting into a pissing contest about which can be the best PUA, take a path less trodden and fly to the wire in front.

                              Since this new game involves AFC men ratting you out every chance they get, don't worry about the women remembering what they saw on television, because that clueless AFC next to you at the table won't be so clueless anymore.

                              -Navy236

                              I do agree with the fact that the girls will be harder/smarter about it if they are aware of this "pick up artist" tactic.

                              To say that exposing this to the media public is not going to make a difference is ridiculous

                              -JimSmith

                              Look at these forums, show me the valuable content. This thread has a ton of posts and views but nothing new on pickup. No one is going to share anymore. And they should't - it might end up on someones tv show.

                              -Equal

                              Picture Johnny cuddling with Mary on the couch. The show comes on and they teach the same Jealous GF line he used to open her 13 months ago. That'd be either really funny or really bad.

                              -wanderer

                              Not to mention all of the guys who have spent thousnads of dollars attending these bootcamps over the last few years. Where is the loyalty to them and the rest of us buying all of the books and cds for several undered dollars a pop. maybe Im just over reacting, but Ive seen alot of stuff go mainstream and get destroyed

                              -Tredd


                              I agree with them...This whole VH1 thing seems to define EXPLOITATION.


                              (relax guys getting enraged and arguing over the internet like an intenet geek is total AFC behavior...these are all just OPINIONS...so let's keep the peace.)
                              Last edited by Boss; 06-29-2007, 07:38 AM.

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