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  • so this crap

    Alright well i was in a relationship with a girl and she goes "i don't want to hurt you but i think i still have feelings for my ex and i love you but your like the best guy ever and i don't want to hurt you" So needless to say ...we broke up lol . Is there any way to make her ex disappear from her mind? you know some good old boyfriend destroyers,and if so can i have some ideas of some good ones.If not that then what should i do guys. I would highly appreciate it . i mean if it means moving on I'm down for it but i really like this girl thanks a lot.

  • #2
    Boyfriend destroyers don't work in my opinion. "In the moment" and making out with a taken chick is easier than getting them to dump their guy. If you want...

    Try a jealosy plotline, along with some disqualifying, and always compliment the bf. Idk how it will work, but give it a shot I guess. I tend to stay away from girl that have boyfriends that are "real" bfs, but give it a go and see how it works mate.

    Comment


    • #3
      Eh. I'd just be straight up with her.

      "Look, I'm better for you than him. I'm not going to attack him, except to say that he's probably your ex for a reason. Do you know any couples who have gone on to be happy after what you've gone through? I don't. Obviously, it's your choice, your mistake to make, but I could be the best thing that ever happens to you and I think you're being foolish."

      Then turn and walk away. Game other girls. Be an attractive mofo and if she learns her mistake in time, great, and if you've moved on and no longer care ... well, that's great, too.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hotspur is correct

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Hotspur View Post
          Eh. I'd just be straight up with her.

          "Look, I'm better for you than him. I'm not going to attack him, except to say that he's probably your ex for a reason. Do you know any couples who have gone on to be happy after what you've gone through? I don't. Obviously, it's your choice, your mistake to make, but I could be the best thing that ever happens to you and I think you're being foolish."

          Then turn and walk away. Game other girls. Be an attractive mofo and if she learns her mistake in time, great, and if you've moved on and no longer care ... well, that's great, too.
          In my experience, this NEVER works.

          Trying to use logic to explain to a woman why you are better for her only causes her to defend her ex and her reasons for making a stupid decision which will in turn STRENGTHEN in her mind the feellings she has for him.

          Points of concern:

          "You're like the best guy ever." = You're a nice guy but I want someone more Alpha (for lack of a better term)

          "I don't want to hurt you." = She's going to hurt you.

          If you want this to work in your favor, you need to let her go be with her EX, then, when SHE GETS DISAPPOINTED (and she will) that he's still the same tool she broke up with before, you need to make her WORK to chase you - if you go back to easy, this same type of thing WILL happen again.

          For now, LJBF her or flat out move on. Don't cut off contact completely UNLESS talking to her starts to AFFECT YOU emotionally, then drop her - if she sees your being emotionally affected it will DLV you and reinforce to her why she's back with her ex and not you.

          In the meantime, take a look at your relationship with this girl and try to spot ways you may have been too AFC; then work on changing these things. This is your only hope of getting her back and KEEPING her successfully.

          Were you too compliant?
          Were you chasing her?
          Were you pussy whipped?
          Were you too available?

          If the answer to even one of these things is yes, you've got something to focus on to take your mind on what SHE's doing. Focus on yourself, if you do it right, she'll be back. Then you need to decide if you still want her.

          You might not.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by BangBang View Post
            In my experience, this NEVER works.

            Trying to use logic to explain to a woman why you are better for her only causes her to defend her ex and her reasons for making a stupid decision which will in turn STRENGTHEN in her mind the feellings she has for him.

            Points of concern:

            "You're like the best guy ever." = You're a nice guy but I want someone more Alpha (for lack of a better term)

            "I don't want to hurt you." = She's going to hurt you.

            If you want this to work in your favor, you need to let her go be with her EX, then, when SHE GETS DISAPPOINTED (and she will) that he's still the same tool she broke up with before, you need to make her WORK to chase you - if you go back to easy, this same type of thing WILL happen again.

            For now, LJBF her or flat out move on. Don't cut off contact completely UNLESS talking to her starts to AFFECT YOU emotionally, then drop her - if she sees your being emotionally affected it will DLV you and reinforce to her why she's back with her ex and not you.

            In the meantime, take a look at your relationship with this girl and try to spot ways you may have been too AFC; then work on changing these things. This is your only hope of getting her back and KEEPING her successfully.

            Were you too compliant?
            Were you chasing her?
            Were you pussy whipped?
            Were you too available?

            If the answer to even one of these things is yes, you've got something to focus on to take your mind on what SHE's doing. Focus on yourself, if you do it right, she'll be back. Then you need to decide if you still want her.

            You might not.
            I agree here. Hotspur's advice most likely will NOT work. Trying to convince her you are better? That's beta and AFCish. You've apparently lost value in her eyes or lost value below her ex, hence why she wants to get back with him. I'd cut your loss, game other girls and she'll see what she missed out on. You'd really have to give us details on what the deal is in order for us to say with a certain what the issues are in this case. Seems like you went into AFC mode and she lost interest.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by BangBang View Post
              In my experience, this NEVER works.
              Trying to use logic to explain to a woman why you are better for her only causes her to defend her ex and her reasons for making a stupid decision which will in turn STRENGTHEN in her mind the feellings she has for him.
              With all due respect, what I wrote isn't really about the logic of it - although that's there.

              Something along these lines has worked for me. The point isn't what you're saying (except insomuch as you're declaring your interest). The point is that you're making your point forcefully and moving on.

              I absolutely agree with the point that you don't logic your way into a relationship with someone, but in what I wrote above, the logic is a cover for the real message: you saying, "I'm great. I don't care if you screw this up. See you." That's fundamentally an alpha message.

              Telling a girl she's screwing up and then leaving is a powerful alpha moment. It's not about negotiating and you don't really even care if/how she tries to defend herself and her choices. This isn't about negotiating or logic.

              It's about saying, "Here's my position, you want to get on board, now's your chance." THe most important part of what I wrote, which both matrixx and Bang seem to be ignoring, is the "then turn and walk away" part.

              I've found that when the fact that you want to be together with her is clear, a direct, powerful declaration of interest & intent is very powerful, and can get excellent results.

              I do agree, however, Bang writes about what to do next, as far as evaluating how you lost her.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Hotspur View Post
                Something along these lines has worked for me..
                Worked for you in what sense? Sure an ultimatum may get the girl by forcing her into a decision, but that type of snap decision will almost NEVER be a permanent one.

                Originally posted by Hotspur View Post
                The point isn't what you're saying (except insomuch as you're declaring your interest). [COLOR="Red"][B]The point is that you're making your point forcefully and moving on[/B][/COLOR].
                I agree with this statement, but there's a contradiction. The important part is the "moving on" and if you are in fact going to be moving on, what's the point in telling her that she's screwing up? Other than a veiled attempt to get her to "come to her senses", realize what's she's "losing" and then change her mind. This is a short term fix.

                Originally posted by Hotspur View Post
                I absolutely agree with the point that you don't logic your way into a relationship with someone, but in what I wrote above, the logic is a cover for the real message: you saying, "[COLOR="red"][B]I'm great. I don't care if you screw this up. See you." [/B][/COLOR]That's fundamentally an alpha message.
                The logic is only a cover to YOU. If you're messages were congruent you'd be correct. You would be correct about that being a fundamentally alpha message if you had said "[I]I'm great. You've screwed this up. See you.[/I]" See the difference? Unless I'm reading this wrong, any statement along the lines of "I don't care if you screw this up" is akin to saying, "I don't care if you hurt me so long as I get to be with you." That should be the poster slogan for AFCs everywhere.

                Whether you realize it or not, this type on incongruency is EXACTLY what women will pick up on and that will only reinforce to her what most likely are the reasons she's leaving to go back to her ex in the first place.

                Originally posted by Hotspur View Post
                Telling a girl she's screwing up and then leaving is a powerful alpha moment. It's not about negotiating and you don't really even care if/how she tries to defend herself and her choices. This isn't about negotiating or logic.
                Telling a girl she's screwing up and then leaving is reactionary. It's not alpha and here's why:

                If an alpha male (of any species) detects behavior that he feels in not acceptable, he will

                a) Confront the individual and correct the behavior; individual remains part of the group.

                b) Eject them from the group; individual is no longer a member of the group.

                What this translates to in this situation:

                a) Point out that she's screwing up and STAY WITH HER.

                b) WALK AWAY

                There is no point in pointing out the bad behavior unless you are going to give the individual the opportunity to correct it.

                Originally posted by Hotspur View Post
                It's about saying, "Here's my position, you want to get on board, now's your chance." THe most important part of what I wrote, which both matrixx and Bang seem to be ignoring, is the "then turn and walk away" part.
                What happens if she says "Ok, I'm on board"? Your "turn and walk away" part has been stripped on all of it's value and is therefore irrelevant. I haven't ignored anything that you wrote, I just happen to disagree with it, it's contradictory and therefore flawed.

                Originally posted by Hotspur View Post
                I've found that when the fact that you want to be together with her is clear, a direct, powerful declaration of interest & intent is very powerful, and can get excellent results.
                My question in this case would be WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU WANT TO BE WITH A GIRL WHO IS OBVIOUSLY A)INDECISIVE, B)CONFLICTED, C)NOT IN LOVE WITH YOU, D)SO BLOODY STUPID THAT SHE THINKS THAT GOING BACK TO AN EX IS A GOOD IDEA WHEN DOING SO MEANS WALKING AWAY FROM "THE NICEST GUY"........

                This girl has issues that SHE needs to deal with which will require TIME and INVESTMENT in herself on HER part, neither of which is something that you can control. So the choice is yours:

                Do you want to keep her around now with a high probability that she'll flake again in the future? In this case she will be making a decision which will be HEAVILY influenced by her EMOTIONS AT THAT TIME.

                OR

                Do you want to give her time to sort out her shit and then if she does decide to be with you and YOU HAVENT MOVED ON BY THEN, you can give it a try then? In this case her decision will be an informed, thought out CHOICE rather than an emotional DECISION.

                Originally posted by Hotspur View Post
                I do agree, however, Bang writes about what to do next, as far as evaluating how you lost her.
                See, we don't disagree on everything.

                Basically the OP needs to decide what it is he really wants from this. A short term fix or an LTR that will be successful; although the latter is a lost cause with this particular girl, IMHO.
                Last edited by BangBang; 04-02-2008, 10:39 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I agree with this statement, but there's a contradiction. The important part is the "moving on" and if you are in fact going to be moving on, what's the point in telling her that she's screwing up? Other than a veiled attempt to get her to "come to her senses", realize what's she's "losing" and then change her mind. This is a short term fix.
                  It is a short-term fix. Certainly, if you do this, and it works, and then don't do the work on yourself to address the lack of value you were providing to her before, you'll just lose her again.

                  On the other hand, if you do all the work on yourself, without the short-term fix, then you won't get this girl back (in all liklihood.) Now, you may not care, hopefully you'll have moved on and found somebody better.

                  (Your point about this girl's issues may be valid. I don't know enough to make that judgement. I feel like you're being a little harsh on her for simply still being attracted to her ex - it's not like she really has any control about that, anyway. But for the time being I'm taking this guy's feeling that this girl is worth trying to win back at face value.)

                  What's the point of telling her that she's screwing up? Again, I've found that it can be a powerful, forceful declaration, which can create attraction. IN a way, it's the difference between passive disinterest and active disinterest. You LJBF someone, move on ... they wallow in their own life. You lay this on them, and they are reminded of what they could have had, and have that much more incentive to come around.

                  In my opinion, something like what I suggested is giving the woman the chance to correct her behavior, and chase you. It puts you in the position of the one making the decision. It's not binary "stay and correct the behavior" vs "leave and don't care about the behavior." It's "Leave, but let her know what she has to do if she wants to try to get you back."

                  Because we all know that in this situation sticking around to try to correct the behavior isn't going to work, right?

                  So what I'm suggesting is: give the corrective, and then don't sit around waiting to see if it takes. If it takes, she'll find you. If it doesn't, you've moved on. Again - this is just presuming that there's something worth keeping in this girl (which you obviously don't think is the case, but I'm not prepared to judge at this point - and that may ultimately be the crux of our differences here).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Hotspur View Post
                    On the other hand, if you do all the work on yourself, without the short-term fix, then you won't get this girl back (in all liklihood.) ).
                    Not necessarily. To expand on your point, the KEY needs to be the work on yourself. What she does with her life is IRRELEVANT. Whether or not this girl is "worth keeping" is IRRELEVANT. However, what IS relevant is that YOU lead an interesting, exciting, HIGH VALUE life; with or without this girl (or any girl for that matter). This and IMO only this, will dramatically increase your chances of getting this girl back, but it's a Catch 22. By working on yourself and leading an interesting life, you will come to realize that YOU are SO MUCH better and more important than any one woman could be. So even if you do manage to become attractive to this girl again, by the time that happens, you will most likely have lost your interest and attraction to HER. And yes, I'm speaking from REAL WORLD, first-hand personal experience.

                    In my case, I'm SO moved on it's not funny. She on the other hand is still all kinds of fucked up. Just reinforces to me that had I waited around or tried again, things would still be EXACTLY the same...wait strike that....I would simply has been MISERABLE LONGER. Instead, I've grown by leaps and bounds and am more attractive to her than I EVER was; and you know what? I COULDN'T CARE LESS IF SHE WANTS ME OR NOT BECAUSE I DON'T WANT HER. This could NEVER have happened if I didn't give it TIME. (Unfortunately I did not one, not two, but THREE short term fixes with this girl before I grew a set - what can I say I was an AFC and we were engaged, live and LEARN)

                    Originally posted by Hotspur View Post
                    (Your point about this girl's issues may be valid. I don't know enough to make that judgement. I feel like you're being a little harsh on her for simply still being attracted to her ex - it's not like she really has any control about that, anyway. But for the time being I'm taking this guy's feeling that this girl is worth trying to win back at face value.)
                    Not being harsh, being realistic. If she still has feelings for her ex, SHE needs to work that shit out ON HER OWN and has no business being with HK. I would have more respect for her if she just broke up with HK with no explanation to go explore these feelings she has or thinks she has for her ex. That would show that she cares about HK by not wanting to lead him on. Instead, if you truly look at the situation, she did EVERYTHING she could to string him along and keep him hooked so that after she gets dissappointed by this tool, she can come running back to her safety net and pick up right where she left off.

                    I don't know where I saw this posted, but women are like monkeys swinging from tree to tree. They never let go of one branch until they've got a firm grip on the next one.

                    Sounds like she doesn' have a firm grip on the ex, so she wants to have her cake and eat it to and THAT will only wind up with HK being the collateral damage.

                    Originally posted by Hotspur View Post
                    You lay this on them, and they are reminded of what they could have had, and have that much more incentive to come around.
                    I used to believe this too until it kept biting me on the ass. "Laying this on them" as you put it serves no purpose EXCEPT to stroke your own ego in a vain attempt to hurt the person who has hurt you. It's a need for revenge bred of insecurity, plain and simple. I can only say that because I KNOW it to be true; it was one of the many demons I've had to face personally.

                    If she doesn't value you enough to stay with you in the first place, why the hell would she care if she's going to lose you? She's not "losing" you, she's throwing you away. If you were done with a drink and threw the bottle in the trash, would you really care if someone pointed out to you that you'll never have that bottle again?

                    Originally posted by Hotspur View Post
                    In my opinion, something like what I suggested is giving the woman the chance to correct her behavior, and chase you. It puts you in the position of the one making the decision. It's not binary "stay and correct the behavior" vs "leave and don't care about the behavior." It's "Leave, but let her know what she has to do if she wants to try to get you back."
                    You are 100% correct here with one minor oversight:

                    [U]It's too late[/U]. What you suggest and are 100% right about ONLY works when it is done in a way that puts FEAR OF LOSS of SOMETHING SHE VALUES into her. If you sense a relationship is going south and you don't want it to, you do this and it will have the effect you are looking for.

                    In this case however, the ship has sailed and what was once a powerfully effective solution to a problem has now become a reactionary DLV due to one major detail; if she's talking to you about leaving you, you no longer hold enough value in her eyes for it to do ANY good at all. There will be NO fear of loss in this case as if she's talking to you about leaving it means she's already made up her mind, so you're as good as gone, the conversation is more a courtesy than anything else.

                    Originally posted by Hotspur View Post
                    this is just presuming that there's something worth keeping in this girl (which you obviously don't think is the case, but I'm not prepared to judge at this point - and that may ultimately be the crux of our differences here).
                    Make no mistake, I am by no means passing judgement on this girl, I don't know her. I am however giving an honest, realistic assessment of a situation based on life experience.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm going to give you straight out my understanding of what she means:

                      "i don't want to hurt you but i think i still have feelings for my ex and i love you but your like the best guy ever and i don't want to hurt you"
                      "I don't want to hurt you" usually is a precursor to a breakup, to 'soften the blow' because she has been hurt before, and thinks saying this before might make it easier for you. Common misunderstanding.

                      "I think I still have feelings for my ex" she recently met up with her ex, and something happened. They made out or more, and want to get back together. You're in the way of that, he AMOG'ed you. Got her to dump you for him. He also might have some mental grip on her, some girls crawl back to abusive exes

                      "i love you but" I don't really love you, or I MIGHT love you. Or again, I think I love my ex, and you are just not showing your value right now next to him.

                      "you're like the best guy ever" same level as 'it's not you, it's me' or 'I just have some things to take care of in my life first', or 'I'm in a bad place now...', or just pick one. It's a cliché, it's a reason we use them. They get the message across. Also 'nice' is not an alpha characteristic, next to her ex, you are beta.

                      I don't intend to be mean, from my perspective, this was a breakup with padding on it and a bit of truth about another man, so you won't see her with him later and hate her for lying.

                      Seen it and heard it a few times myself in my AFC days, nothing to be ashamed off. Move on, fuck a few girls and get over her.

                      This is just my interpretation of the matter, good luck bro

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BangBang View Post
                        I used to believe this too until it kept biting me on the ass. "Laying this on them" as you put it serves no purpose EXCEPT to stroke your own ego in a vain attempt to hurt the person who has hurt you. It's a need for revenge bred of insecurity, plain and simple. I can only say that because I KNOW it to be true; it was one of the many demons I've had to face personally.
                        When I was first starting to learn the game, I had a situation with my former oneitis, who had chosen someone else.

                        And as I was learning these techniques and one of the things I did, in my mostly-AFC state, was say something along the lines of what I said - albiet much less forcefully, and much less elegantly.

                        But I was still decisive about it.

                        And wow, I saw the attraction spike. I felt it. And in that moment I could have probably gotten what I wanted.

                        I decided not to, for a variety of reasons. But I remember that feeling, that attraction spike, when I standing there, and feeling that power.

                        Was it stoking my ego? Sure. And, in fact, the kick of, "holy shit this stuff works" was part of the reason I didn't pursue it more.

                        So I guess my point is that you can spike attraction when leaving someone in a way that creates a space for you to do something positive. It's not just about your ego. It's related to the willingness-to-walk-away attraction switch, it's related to the confidence attraction switch, etc. Putting yourself i a position of judgement over her hits other switches.

                        I agree with you that once she's breaking things off, it's probably too late. But if you're going to walk away, why NOT walk away by hitting her with a boatload of attraction?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Hotspur View Post
                          But if you're going to walk away, why NOT walk away by hitting her with a boatload of attraction?
                          It's a personal preference really.

                          Personally, I'd rather just walk away. The odds are good that I'll see her again at some point in the future and it's THEN that I'd want to have her hit with a boatload of attraction, after she's had time to realize on her own what a HUGE mistake she made. The time and space you've provided will amplify any positive changes that you've made that much more.

                          You may be right about being able to creat ATTRACTION with what you described, but I've come to realize that not only is attraction not a choice, it can be fleeting. For that very reason, I'd rather work at creating VALUE for myself in her eyes, because once she sees me as HIGH VALUE plus is attracted to me, she will be chasing THE PRIZE, the way things should be.


                          Looks like we're more interested in this thread than the OP. lol

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BangBang View Post
                            You may be right about being able to creat ATTRACTION with what you described, but I've come to realize that not only is attraction not a choice, it can be fleeting. For that very reason, I'd rather work at creating VALUE for myself in her eyes, because once she sees me as HIGH VALUE plus is attracted to me, she will be chasing THE PRIZE, the way things should be.
                            That makes total sense. But my opinion is - based on how I felt - that somebody like the original poster needs to feel that spike of attraction. It's empowering. And it's encouraging ... because when you feel that, you start to see your own value, and it's much easier to build your own value once you believe in it yourself.

                            I think long-term value-building is definitely the way to go, and one of the things that really appeals to me about this community is how it really is based in self-improvement. But I don't see it as exclusive to learning how to pump the buying temperature. They both have a place!


                            Looks like we're more interested in this thread than the OP. lol
                            I guess we both have too much time on our hands today!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Hotspur View Post
                              It's about saying, "Here's my position, you want to get on board, now's your chance." THe most important part of what I wrote, which both matrixx and Bang seem to be ignoring, is the "then turn and walk away" part.

                              I had a problem with your following line you used, not the fact you said "then turn and walk away."

                              "Look, I'm better for you than him. I'm not going to attack him, except to say that he's probably your ex for a reason. Do you know any couples who have gone on to be happy after what you've gone through? I don't. Obviously, it's your choice, your mistake to make, but I could be the best thing that ever happens to you and I think you're being foolish."
                              Sounds like to me you are qualifying yourself to her when she's the one that's fucking up. In fact, that's exactly what you are doing with that statement. It wreaks of AFC wordage.

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