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  • My Instant Messaging 1st Model

    I do believe I have some value to share on the topic so ok, I’ll now try to sketch up the system I use in online game. Remember it’s just a model, and a model I haven’t been thinking about consciously up till now. Breaking all of the rules is what really made me become one of the best at this.
    (Not like I’m trying to self proclaim myself as the best Online Gamer around, but I’ve never seen anyone even halfway as far as I’ve gotten into this. But I don’t know if anyone here is actually as good or even better than myself at this. Feel free to insult me I’m a Ghost, who cares)
    By the way, I call it Online Game but it’s actually just instant messaging to me (IMS). Email is too slow. They work sometimes, you can arrange a meeting or something but if she’s not the kind of girl that goes on dates with guys from the digital environment you will not be able to change that much my email. If she’s a 10 you will not! You should have the patience of a darn Llama.

    RAMM’s INSTANT MESSAGING MODEL.
    (RIMM, LOL)

    Ok now, it’s a bit like the M3 model. There is a beginning, a middle and an end.
    Beginning is just plain attraction, I’ll get deep about it in a moment.
    Middle is rapport building of course, which is like 99% of the game.
    End is some sort of close.

    EDITED 2,5 years later:
    After the 3rd step, the online close, there's the meetup, and since you didn't meet her out in the field, it is completely different a game. Basically, you don't go through A, C and S. In further posts I went through what you do during meetup stem from online, so I won't go through it here. Sure, the thread needs some serious reorganizing. Anyway, You should be in advanced C (comfort) and you can escalate to S right away. Just give her an hour or so, for her to verify that you are the same guy you told her you were. Conguency! Start with strong kino from second 1 of meet up, where you should be anyway. If you don't, it's going to feel like you're knowing each other from scratch again. Bad. If you do on the other hand, it's gonna feel like everything that had already been said is solid, real.
    Last edited by RAMM; 05-13-2011, 04:24 PM.

  • #2
    BEGINNING.
    This is building attraction and is at a theoretical level just the same as real world attraction, but does manifest in a total different way. In the real world you show a lot of interest by just opening and talking to people so you need to disqualify soon. Online there is no such need. Of course you can do it, itís good in some situations, but I think of it best as part of comfort in a way. When you disqualify in real life you then stack forward immediately. Thatís what makes it work. Online, you canít just fake you did just say what she think sheís heard. You have no plausible deniability. You canít just say high, chat for 10 seconds and just drop the fact that ďToo bad youíre not my typeĒ and hope to get away with it. Cuz now youíre setting a frame where youíre gaming her, and itís not a good frame. I think I could get away with it cuz Iím a pro at this. Like I could even say Iím picking her up just after weíve talked for 20 minutes. Iíll say ďYou know, Iíll make you fall in love with me, you got no way out woman!Ē And I can still do it. But thatís just cuz I like to make the game more interesting(and harder) for myself. You have the pattern breaking tool to do the craziest stuff.
    So, you donít need to disqualify too much just because youíre talking to her.
    Attraction is a very less definite phase in Online Gaming, itís shorter, can even be skipped cuz you get attraction by just starting with Middle if your good. Just the fact you can spell and talk interesting topics creates the attraction you need to keep her interested enough to let you keep on talking. Cuz thatís why you need consistent attraction in real life.. since she might just leave at any moment. Then you have to start all over, and thatís if you do happen to meet her again. In real life you canít get any commitment before you go at least some depth into comfort. But this is not necessary online!
    So you just start ďCasual conversationĒ but you actually DHV, then DHV again and again, and as she gives more IOI, you start getting her to comply by getting herself to qualify to you (DHV for her, and IOI towards you). You need to equally reward her compliance. Just keep your value a bit(or more sometimes) above hers. Turn on all of the high value switches. But donít think much about it. It comes naturally with time. Be confident. Be interesting. Donít talk boring BS small talk. Watch more Discovery Channel. Read more interesting books. Talk to her about your tantric practice. Talk girl topics, cuz theyíre more interesting than our own. Dunno about you guys but the olí cars, football and other menís stuff is the most boring thing I could think of.
    Also, for the attraction remember to make an interesting choice about avatar, nickname, any other info you might have on some blog, etc. This does partially substitute looks, BL, even peacocking. For the same reason, you should do the same, watch all the info she displays, and cold read stuff about her. Use your intuition. This is gold.

    Comment


    • #3
      MIDDLE.
      This is comfort. But its also quite mixed up with attraction. You canít immediately solidify her attraction to you, cuz she canít test you much for congruency. So she will have just a shallow trust in the feelings you give her. To get major trust and attraction you must be very good with comfort.
      I think itís not even right to call it comfort when it comes to Online Gaming. Cuz youíre always comfortable in a way. What I mean, you need to build comfort when youíre really with the girl. Here instead you might wanna think of it as.. hmm.. knowing each other, sharing stuff, finding commonalities, building trust, getting her to open up on EVERYTHING. Check Sex Talk at the end of the post.
      Middle game is made of DHVs from both sides. She has to think youíre the most interesting guy she ever met. You should think the same about her. Otherwise why would you care to be gaming her anyway?
      Try to really appreciate things about her. To me girls are most of the times more interesting than guys. Yeah I have high value friends and wings, but theyíre not sharing on my favorite topics.
      Try to get a culture people, get to know everything that girls are fascinated about. I know more about zodiac signs than most girls. I can lead her into conversations that most girls are fascinated about. Same goes about social dynamics. Relationships. Donít get too fairy-taley, but.. you know, as also shown in Revelation, charismatic people are people who feel emotions stronger than other people. They live with emotions and are comfortable expressing them. They give emotions to everyone around them. Positive emotions. Sometimes negative emotions. Thereís a time for everything.
      You just need to stimulate a whole range of different emotions in her mind. And you need to consciously lead the emotions.
      All Middle game is about, talking, one topic after the other while you use the tools Iím about to write about, or any other tools you think fitted or might have. Donít have an agenda, except for making her be so much into you that sheís frigginí depressed anytime she canít hear from you. Get her addicted to the emotions you give her. As soon as youíre not there anymore, she must think about you or anything you said, or made her feel. This is what sparkles love feelings. Not so much while youíre still there, it happens when sheís missing you.
      You know, when you get the flow state about this (needs competence) you no longer actually need to think this stuff out. Itís when youíre always saying the best possible thing to the best possible effect and in the best of possible ways.
      Itís when you get consistency. What mystery calls 545, or 5 for 5. That is you get 5 girls out of 5 sets. Or in this particular case, you get 5 girls out of 5 email addresses.

      Comment


      • #4
        END.
        There isn’t much of a close online. There are many little closes. Getting her to ask for your phone number. Getting her to send you pics, maybe hot pics, maybe she’s naked? Get her to strip on cam if that’s what you like, some dudes have to pay for that, enjoy. Getting a commitment for a date is the final close most of the times. Just don’t stop gaming her after you get commitment. Most of the times when you’re new at online game what happens after a commitment to date close, what should i call it? A CDC? So now I’m the one creating the acronims! Huh! I was saying, as soon as you get CDC you risk what David DeAngelo used to call “The line goes slack!”. This happens because of logistics. Even if she does say yes you do not actually meet her 10 minutes later, most of the times. You might also meet her a month later, she might live quite far away, in a different city, etc.
        Then you find yourself at dead point, cuz you think you can’t game her no more, you already got her and you can’t really take the relationship any step further at that point until you meet her, or can you? It’s the same to her. You both qualified to each other, so you can’t work to gain any more of her “qualification”, you already have it. She has no game to help you at this point though she might want to.
        You are in a situation OUTSIDE the M3 model. You need something different to work this out. If you stop gaming her at this point, in a couple of day probably.. maybe more, maybe less, you will not be able to count on her commitment no more. Cuz you know, she said yes but it was due to emotional momentum. The next day she’ll probably not feel it anymore. So the next time you chat again with her act as if you didn’t get her CDC at all. Act just the way she is acting. She’s probably trying so look like she forgot she gave her CDC. Don’t act like it’s rock solid. Instead act like you forgot about it yourself. Disqualify a gain, not too much though, and then do it all over again: DHV + DHV + DHV till you get her in the exact same mood she had when she gave her CDC. Now she’s again acting like she does remember about her commitment, she does feel like mentioning it, maybe making more detailed plans about it, like setting the time and place.
        I forgot to mention, don’t make her CDC a big deal, ever, or she’ll be compelled to flake! And this also means, the first time she gave CDC you do not ask her for any more commitment, you do not set place and time or any other detail. You act like it’s no big deal, like it’s just an option you have for yourself. Get her phone number anyway, so you can call her, this will make her trust that you’re not just a keyboard-jockey(a KJ? ) but a flesh and blood human being. Also phone game might reveal incongruencies whatsoever so, you also need to practice your phone game the same way!
        So this we might call the END GAME LOOP. Another shot for it? EGL? Call it what you like best. Probably in a couple of days someone will tell me “Hey, how do you EGD after she gave CDC?” and I’ll be going like “SAY WHAT?”.
        The End Game Loop means, each and every time you meet her online again, you repeat the process, do not give her the feeling the she won you over for too long. Cuz this is what happens, you win over her an she wins over you. But if you keep acting like she won you over next time you hear from her while she is now acting like you have not won her over then you’re making a mistake and she’s going to flake on her previous CDC.
        Just don’t make the mistake I see so many guys do, even PUAs, to think that a #close, especially in Online Gaming is the ultimate close, or any close at all. It’s worth much less then you think. Yeah, you can use that later, lot later, so solidify her interest, as I said by allowing her to congruence test you. You owe it to her. To her it seems like on the phone it’s harder to fake high value, so she’ll know that you weren’t just BSing her the whole time.
        Thanks to my gift for writting and my experience with IMS I can look as cool as Mystery to a girl online. But this will work against me once she meets me if I’m just a geek and a KJ. Of course, you must play higher that you are in real life. But not as much as to come off extremely incongruous when she actually meets you. If you’re just starting out never mind this, try to be perfect, just for the experience.
        I’ll tell you one story. I was such a geek. A virgin geek. Couldn’t even talk to a girl whatsoever. I convinced this HB8 on IMS I was f**king great. She thought I was THE MAAAN! Well, I was becoming the man after all, but still had a long way to go. So I F-Closed her so damn fast she didn’t realize I was totally incongruous. I mean. I can make a girl, just any girl so much in love with me on IMS that I can have sex to her in 30 minutes after we meet in person if I want to. And that I deed. She’ll feel that she’s known me for years, that she totally trusts and love me. It won’t feel to her like getting laid by some unknown guy she met online. Even girls who aren’t like this. I mean valuable girls, I don’t do sluts and I don’t do lower than HB8. And this is just so you understand what I’m talking about. If I were to pickup HB5s then there would be no value to my technique whatsoever. I would just tell them to come over and jump on my rod.
        But I hated this, starded having remorse about tricking one particular girl, then I quit doing it. Now I've actually become the all the things I tell girls I am, and it is a lot more fun and satisfaction!
        I absolutely love women. I mean the real thing, not just cuz I’m a guy or a PUA and I’m driven by sexual desire. I really love their mind. I enjoy talking to them. The interesting ones of course. I’m far more interested in a creative relationship with a high value female than I’m interested into laying her. But this is just me.
        Last edited by RAMM; 02-28-2009, 02:44 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          THE TOOLS.


          EMPATHY.
          Empathy will help you decide her legitimate value. Youíll get a feeling of it when you game online for some time. Donít get too rational about it, there is no way of rationally telling her exact value online, but there is a way to feel it. I am now able to ďFeelĒ her value early on in the game and itís proven 99,9% accurate to me at this time.
          Youíll get a feel on how people should react to your material in the specific situation, if she constantly over react, thereís a chance sheís lower value, except for specific... exceptions Iím not going deep into now, you just figure it out along the way. If sheís not reacting enough then she might be very high value(though I have a belief that itís easier to game high value women than it is with low value ones, because the low value ones are boring, donít stimulate much your emotions and you get less empathic). She might also under-react for the opposite reason, sheís Low Self Esteem. She thinks she canít get you anyway so sheís not investing. But of course, if you calibrate it right this will not happen, or change.
          As I said in some other topic, Empathy is key to all of online gaming, even more than it is with live gaming, just because harder to exert. Empathy gives you a lot of information, I sometimes trick myself into thinking thereís no way i could know all of this stuff unless Iím a telepathic psychic. I really feel her emotions in my body. I read emotions and translate them into valuable information. It seems magical!
          Letís see what kind of information can it give you:
          Reading IOIs and IODs.
          Successfully reading her value.
          Spotting any shit tests.
          And the most important thing, you can read where sheís at emotionally. This is a step further than cold reading. Itís like, having telepathic powers. Youíre so deep in her brain sheíll think you know her better than herself. And you will. Itís not just about pretending you know what she feels, itís feeling what she feels as you read her lines. Reading the emotional state(the way you would read BL in real game) is fundamental to all of the rest, perhaps the one most important thing in online game. Itís fundamental to calibrating your material And Iím not saying canned material. Thereís no need for that. You might use canned topics that you think are interesting or you notice women are very interested to, but canned material is just for real life because you are working on delivery. There is also a concept of Instant Messaging Delivery, Iíll discuss that in a second.
          While you read, remember the empathy, imagine her gasp as she reads something you wrote, imagine her increased heartbeat. Her Breath stopping. Soon enough itís not just in your head no more, it becomes real and she does EXACTLY what you projected. You can LEAD her emotions like you had some remote control over her. This is not BS!
          You know, sometimes she just wrote ďHiĒ and I get some strange feeling in my guts. Then I listen to it, listen to my intuition and just with that tiny bit of information I can understand some incredible stuff about her emotional state. Get a feel for it. Everything counts. Is she writing fast? Slow. Long sentences? Short sentences? Is she slow because sheís a slow writer or because she got no interest? In the last case break her pattern! Does she go to the bathroom for 5 minutes without telling you before. Does she take out the dog for a walk? Is she interacting with other people on IMS? Talk to her about the other losers. Tell her it would be best for her to care less about them and give more attention to yourself. That you are the best. Donít just brag. Be the best.

          Comment


          • #6
            MIRRORING.
            Mirroring is a way of getting rapport. It is only possible online when you have good empathic skills so I must stress them once more. In the long run, artificially mirroring people is frustrating, and after a girl did this to me I understood that itís really unfair. Itís against my principle to fake mirroring, cuz I know it can hurt. I do it only when thereís some real sameness, some real connection, when we really do have stuff in common.


            BREAK HER PATTERNS.
            You need to break some of her patterns, especially when sheís framing you in a way thatís not good to you. Letís say Iíve been sharing some psychological insights about her or people in general. Sheíll love it but later she might get into the mindset youíre gaming her, your faking what she wantís to hear. Of course I could do that, and have done it, but now that I have choice I donít need to fake being what she wishes for in a man, I am already. So I actually am just being myself in a way, and faking something Iím not.. I mean why would I do that? My type of girl is the high value one that likes me the way I am, I would need to fake rapport only to lower value girls, but why would I game them anyway?
            But if youíre doing what I do, sometimes sheíll just get a bad feeling, like you sound too perfect to be real you know? Like, you seem superman, she loves you and she fears that when she meets you on a date youíll be totally different, a total dork. I used to have that happen to me when I wasnít any good in real game. Online, she canít really do a congruence test and see if youíre really like that or youíre just the next Stephen King of instant messaging! Not being able to test for congruency will give her this feeling of fear and will fail to commit her emotions anymore. Thatís the right time to break patterns. Just do something shocking, cut her threads altogether, get a hysterical reaction if need.
            I can think of a right time where you can totally declare you love her as sheís hijacked your brain. I can think of a good time to get f**king angry! A good time to have any unexpected reaction that will totally break her fear patterns about congruency.


            SHARING VULNERABILITIES.
            By sharing some vulnerability of course you get more rapport, if you donít get this just go read some more MM.
            But also dig into her brain, get her to share some major vulnerability and help her out or reassure her. The you totally got her hooked. But if sheís got a low self-esteem you canít come off as too perfect, or she will not trust your commitment to her.
            Sharing vulnerabilities is a must, both ways.
            But itís useful to set a frame where you are the emotionally strong one(not insensitive), and she needs you. A frame where youíre the happy one, the successful one, and youíll help her believe more in herself. One particular girl did manage to put this frame on me, where sheís stronger than me, where she was ďhappierĒ than myself and I got wrapped in the frame and she totally got me. I frigginí loved her, I had no choice! Itís hardwired! But I also lost her. Cuz she was really high value and I looked like lower value to her. I think it can be turned around sometimes. Some girls have a strong mother instinct kick in these situations, but you canít count on that, also, it would be an unbearable situation for a strong alpha male. So please, save yourself from this!


            SINCERITY.
            Sincerity is the BEST tool you have to get her to trust you. Tell her everything. Compel her to tell you everything. And by everything I mean everything. Set a frame where, you really can tell her even the ďworstĒ thing about yourself.
            You can frame some DHV about yourself as though you think itís a DLV and tell her about it. Then you can start telling her even the ďbadĒ stuff about you in the same frame. You can get away with everything. Also, if she trusts you this much, you can also lie to her later, and she wonít flinch. I mean go ahead. Tell her you are so interested in social dynamics. Tell her you pick up women because of this. Tell her you only like bisexual girls. I always do. Itís also a good disqualifier when sheís not bi. Tell her youíre into threesomes. I donít give a damn, tell her everything. You probably have no idea of how good it will make you feel getting away with stuff that get other dudes buried into deep crap. I mean, when you get away with this stuff, just watch your ego go BOOM! And get sky-high self esteem!
            I canít stress enough the value of sincerity. You could build your whole game around it!

            Comment


            • #7
              PLOWING.
              Itís a new concept to the community I think, but I think Iíve always used it in online gaming. Thatís what I mean by going extreme and cutting her patterns and being extremely sincere. In fact it is just great time PLOWing!
              Read more about plowing on LDís Revelation. Iím not going to explain it here...


              SEX TALK?
              I heard of guys telling to avoid sex talk. In my experience it has always worked just fine. Just donít act needy about sex. You might as well teach her something new. I dunno, tell her about her G spot or some other spot. Just act like you know, youíre an adult and itís not a big deal. Also, if youíre just starting out never mind mistakes. Even if you donít get the girl you can keep experience. And you donít get that much anxiety online, so just talk as dirty as your heart is. Ask her stuff if you donít know. It wonít get her into your bed, but it will be a hit with the next one. Always be gaming many girls at the same time. It will make you come off more relaxed and non needy, having more options.
              Read the Multiorgasmic man and David Shadeís stuff. Might also wanna check Steve P. and Hypnotica. These guys are machines, I absolutely worship them. Them, Mystery, Richard Bandler, Juggler. They did something new and original. The rest came from them.


              INSTANT MESSAGING DELIVERY.
              Delivery is key in IMS too. Who knew, huh? Sometimes, especially in the beginning, you might try to Enter very short sentences.. even one word at the time. Pausing counts a lot in writing too, but let go of punctuation. Not everybody is a good reader. You might put a lot of comas but she might just ignore them. Instead try breaking everything apart.
              This has also another purpose: it gives you plausible deniability. Write something outrageous. And while sheís answering shocked you end up the sentence with a twist. You mess up with her head. You give her a big IOI that becomes an IOD in just a second. There are a lot of tricks that donít even work in speech, but only written, like this!
              What I mean is, the same exact lines will not have the same effect if Entered in different lapses of time.
              Remember Empathy. Itís all about the delivery. It works like this, you know what sheís feeling, you know what you want her to feel, you calibrate your delivery to the goals, and you have her feel exactly what you chose. As simple as that. Soon you need no game anymore. Sheíll game you for just being able to do that to her head.
              Like 95% of the times you can get the exact emotional response you went for. Other times sheíll have a different response. Donít be blind to that. Calibrate and microcalibrate. Plow and sheíll let you escalate a lot faster.
              Letís see an example of this, Iíd go like:
              <<remember empathy
              itís all
              about
              Delivery
              it works like this, you know what
              sheís feeling
              you know what you want her to feel
              you calibrate your delivery
              to your goals
              and you have her
              feel EXACTLY
              what YOU choose!>>
              Use pausing to guide her feelings, to put the most important stuff on a hot spot. Make every sentence interesting!
              Say everything with the most interesting word choice you can make. I mean, choose the words that you think will generate the greatest emotional reaction, good or bad. Use anything, even swear if needed. And use words that describe feelings and the so called sense words. Always lead emotions!

              Comment


              • #8
                ROLE PLAYING and DOMINANT FRAME C&F.
                Role playing work. But works better live. I could live without ever role playing. In fact, if you were to chat to a girl for a few hours and you were to know only about role playing then it would be a pretty limiting thing for you. What if she donít comply to role playing? Get her to do crazy things for you instead of just letting her play the role. I mean, instead of making her play the part of I dunno, someone in love with you, make her feel real love!
                There is only one role play I do regularly and works wonders. Itís the me being the LEADING MAN, and her being the OBEYING GIRL. Iím not by any means a violent guy, especially not to women, but they enjoy this sort of role play. Itís kinda like DYD Cocky and Funny. In order for this to work she must accept your dominant frame. This last girl actually told me that she has a dominant frame over her boyfriend and she said it while I was playing this sort of role play. And than she complimented me. It made her really happy. I think most girls dream of this sort of relationship somehow. Non the violent man, or the bad guy. Just the dominant guy to lead her and protect her. To be the strong one in the relationship so that she can let go any fear ad just be herself, be a woman..


                EXPERIMENT.
                Always experiment. You tried to get her to masturbate on the phone for you? Thatís some nice experience. Get her to do crazy things for you, before sheís even seen your picture. You have no idea what you can make them do for you. If your microcalibration skill is good(well, more than good) you can get her to comply to impossible degrees. You might lose all respect for one complying so much, take the risk. Itís worth knowing how far can you take the gag. Youíll never be the same after this
                Cuz you know, itís not about some slut that does dirty crap regularly. Itís about good girls that never did anything like this. That is a challenge.


                ANCHORING.
                Any of the above tools can be anchored, in an NLP sense. Then you can trigger the desired response consistently. Read Bandler for more on this one. Remember Anchoring could be anything. You are not even aware of all the anchoring you do. And youíre doing it like every second, with every breath. You canít not anchor so you might as well anchor the right things. 

                Right now no other tools come to my mind. I might add more later, Or YOU guys might point out some more stuff. I learned all of this by just MY OWN TRIAL AND ERROR, and out of my being desperate ar the time, and out of my 150 IQ (by the way, can any of you think of a way to embed that DHV in a conversation and not apper to be bragging?). Never read of any other methods of Online Pickup. Donít know of any out there. I am also compelled to think itís best if you just learn it yourself instead of waiting for someone elseís method. Think what Mystery did and why no one is better at the game heís created. Cuz he didnít read about the MM. He created it. Itís about cognitive models. Your own cognitive model is always gonna be better than someone elseís cognitive model uploaded into your head.

                OTHER SCENARIOS.
                When I started out I was much more into chat rooms. Thatís like IMS with a group of people, not just ne girl. There is some group theory that could be applied to that stuff. But I havenít done that for more than 4 years, though I remember I could get crazy social proof in the digital venue. I got a few girlfriends that way. I think that was a bih aha to me, watch like 20 people interact in so many ways. And experimenting. Trying to get all the attention focused on myself. Just plain group theory, i repeat.
                I also did the same thing on a forum for a while, 4-5 years ago. Again, very similar, but without the Instantaneity of IMS. I donít wanna talk much about that since I donít wanna come off as traying to pick you guys up!

                P.S. Iím not sure how one could teach this sort of empathy. I wish I could just get you to feel what I feel in my gust as soon as some Instant Message hits my MSN messenger. Even before I read. The feeling is there. You just learn to trust these feelings.

                P.P.S. Since Iím new to the forum, Iíd like to know who else is really good at Online Game.
                We might as well develop the best system around.
                Just feel free add to my stuff your own value.
                Iíd be glad if this topic evolved as something where we can exchange only high quality and advanced stuff about IMS and not just chumps asking basic advice. Know what I mean?

                Oh and one last thing, I might have made some language errors, please consider Iíve never stepped on American land, or any other English speaking country. Never, not a day. Not yet, I must open a topic about my goal of moving to California in the Goals Section of the forum. xD

                Dr. Ramm xD

                Comment


                • #9
                  This is a fantastic article, thank you for sharing!
                  I'm sure this will help a LOT of people who are still trying to get a grasp for online gaming and what it's all about.


                  And I agree about experimenting with the group dynamics of chatrooms and forums, especially with chatrooms since they can be so fast-paced.... you can learn SO much in a short period of time by observation and interaction in an environment like that. That will give you a big advantage when you do isolated, slower-paced conversations through IM, etc. Re: your forum games, you don't have to talk about it, I already picked up on that.

                  Empathy is something that is learned by being receptive, being emotionally self-aware, and then practicing that with others. Some are naturally more empathic than others, but it's also an ability that can grow over time through use and intent. But it requires not running from emotion or being afraid of it, either yours or someone else's.


                  P.S. Let's not frame girls who are willing to be sexual online or over the phone as "sluts" though - as you well know, when girls are attracted and comfortable with you it's not unusual at all for them to start openly sharing their sexuality. It may not even take that long to get to that point. That doesn't make them a "slut," it shouldn't be framed as something negative, just like you sharing YOUR sexuality through this means before you actually meet her would not normally be seen as a negative thing or make you a low-value man.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I like it.

                    Good thread. Though it seems to go with chat rooms, instant messenger. I havent done that since highschool. How do you meet random people on an instant messenger? I havent done online game. Just tried my first before the one I really want. z

                    Ill comment more and try to contribute with my first foray into this. I will say I tried several peoples ideas and only one worked.

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                    • #11
                      Well so far this thread is helping a bit with my first online game. Im talking to the girl but she is either very disinterested or really sees herself as very high value or low value.

                      The skinny is shes in a HB9 at LEAST, her page had the personal info but no music or movie interest. She states shes not into booty calls, etc, guys look elsewhere. After I DHV twice and her saying she likes what I said, I negged and ask why doesnt she say her interests, is she boring. She said yes and callled me observant. I dont know if its a shit test, if I should go into empathy, or what. This is fucking weird for me cause its my first online game. I could post the whole convo but people here would have to show an interest for it.

                      Also, how do you go into Empathy without seeming AFC? Its a fine line.

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                      • #12
                        azazels wolf
                        Thanks for appreciating.
                        I think I actually wrote there somewhere exactly what you said: I don't think of them as sluts.
                        I actually get so much turned off by sluts, and I mean the real sluts.

                        I Got some more to add, unfortunately my internet connection tonight sucks.
                        I wrote this stuff back at work and it's been waiting to be posted for some 3 days now ^^

                        Cochise, to answer you, do you receive all that linked mails, I don't know what they're called.
                        I use msn for instance and receive these mails that contain like 200 e-mail addresses.
                        I just add them sometimes, if they like you they don't care.
                        Also, most of the e-mail addresses I get on Netlog, a site similar to FaceBook. Any will do.
                        Other e-mail addresses you can ask girls in field or social circle or whatever.
                        And your other question. Empathy is "reading" for cues mostly. You "read among the lines" sort of.
                        Of course then you can write something so as to have a response
                        (not like pickup where you want to get a specific response, but any response will do)
                        then you interpret it and calibrate your game to it.
                        Empathy is you knowing her emotional state even better than she does, before she feels it!
                        It's not really a tecnique, bu as azazel pointed out, it can be learned, I remember times where I didn't have it.
                        Also, it's anlo not like you either have empathy or you don't. it comes in degrees.
                        If she sais she is mad and you feel it than you got at least some sort of empathy.
                        If she tries to hide something and you feel it than you got much empathy, I think there's no upper limit to empathy ^_^.

                        Oh and, I burned so many HBs in the biginning, you know it's like starting out in the field so if you're expecting
                        to have immediate success... hmm do it for the experience, get like 50 HBs addresses and game all of them together,
                        and burn all of them if necessary. Don't become too outcome dependent at least in the beginning
                        It's easy to get many IMS contacts in chat room. People that do IMS often are willing to give their address very easily,
                        not like phone numbers. They don't make a big deal of it.

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                        • #13
                          A couple more TOOLS that have slipped out of my mind, and some of the most important ones!

                          USING BLOGS (& Co.)
                          If you happen to have a nice blog that does convey higher value it can work wonders for you. Especially if you happen to have a very interesting life and have many picture with yourself doing any interesting activity, and surrounded by friends or hot girls, then theyíre going to display DHVs in the most direct way possible. You already win most of your targets over as soon as she happens to view the blog.
                          But again, no one blog will attract EVERY POSSIBLE TARGET. Then you need to speciallize. You need to know the exact type of woman you like to meet. Iím not like that. I like girls of many kinds, who dress in all sort of fashions and lead different lifestyles in general. This would not work for me then. In fact Iíve never actually used a blog for this. Iíve only ever counted on my ability to conversate. I also had this very low self esteem issue and hated my pictures though Iím actually fairly good looking, but did manage to get some hot babes without them ever seeing not even the tiniest of my pictures. This is just to say that looks donít matter much when sheís attracted to your personality. There was this particular HB8-9, 27 year old, superb personality I dated when I was 19. Before meeting we had a lot of conversations on MSN and she thought I was a genius cuz she has a degree in engineering and I am quite into quantum mechanics so I kept talking about those tiny quantum leaps and time distortion that fascinates me (and a lot of other brainiac, exotic or esoteric topics I enjoy). Upon meeting me she said she thought I would not be so good looking, since she had imagined me a bit nerdy and geeky you know, the book worm type(at the time I only flipped some of the attraction switches, like humor and intelligence, but not social proof etc.)
                          She couldnít figure out how big muscles and a great brain could have ever gotten together. I never managed to close her, though she said she loved me at some point, she had an issue about the age difference. This was 3 years ago. If we happen to meet ever again, with the skills Iíve got now I think I can close the deal, she was a total oneity for a long time!

                          Thus it would be a total plus to show that kind of pictures off. So you decide where you wanna take it.

                          EMOTICON USE IN MICROCALIBRATION, ANCHORING & EMOTIONAL STIMULATION.
                          To microcalibrate, the best and easiest way is to use emoticons. If youíre using something like MSN, get as many emoticons as you can, especially the strangest ones. Emoticons have mainly three purposes to me.(hell, how come I forgot to talk emoticons importance in the original post? )

                          1. When you get some reaction that you want to ANCHOR, find the most appropriate emoticon to anchor it. It works 100% of the time. Has it ever happened for you to say something stupid and she feels the ping inside, so she sends back a pong, and the pong is actually an emoticon of a face with a sweat drop on the forehead like this one -_-Ď and all of a sudden you feel the pong back and it feels quite uncomfortable. Then, anytime she uses the emoticon again, you start feeling it stronger and stronger, even when you havenít said any stupid thing. When you shouldnít feel it. But you do. Itís because it got anchored.
                          I mean, now itís just enough for someone to send that same emoticon to me and it sets my emotions really off.. I really need to consciously think itís NOT REAL to be able to control the emotion.
                          Now, you try to do the same. Have her think about sex maybe. Then anchor it to some kiss-emoticon. You know that emoticons where some lesbians are making out, with the picture of real people, not the colored drawing. Those work. Then again, there are some more hard-core sex emoticons. There is a time for them too. Experiment.
                          2. To MICROCALIBRATE with emoticons itís fairly easy. You neg and and put a smile next to it J.
                          Or you show interest but then you call her stupid+smile. Itís about giving contrasting feelings, but also, about getting away with anything. You microcalibrate it the right way and everything is accepted! You know, I think Iíll have to open a thread about what I think of as MACROCALIBRATION. To me, microcalibration is when you combine an IOI with an IOI. Like when you IOI and bodyrock. Or you neg and you then smile. But then, this microcalibration is something tiny and instantaneous.
                          But what if you were to calibrate something after a while? Like, youíve been talking to her about a topic quite for some time. And you keep creating some frame. Then after maybe 20 minutes or 2 hours of keeping her in the frame you chose, you Macrocalibrate by totally breaking that frame.
                          I mean, microcalibration is like throwing a rock and hiding the hand. Macrocalibration is something larger. Like youíve been messing with her head for the whole time sheís known you and now youíre showing her she knew crap about you. Iím not sure of how to explain this yes, Iíll investigate it more and let you know as soon as I get some solid examples of this and how I use it.
                          Just one example, you show her an exagerate amount of interest for like the entire conversation, like youíre so much into her. Then you take it all back by setting a frame that you weíre fooling her into thinking you love her, when you actually donít care that much. Itís like disqualifying not immediately but after a while. Maybe it sounds stupid... hmm...
                          3. One more way to use emoticons is for EMOTIONAL STIMULATION. Use words that describe sounds, images, feelings, smells.. it works perfectly, but an image is even more striking. Use the right image at the right time and it stimulates more of the feeling youíre trying to lead her into. Itís like when, letís say sheís had the worst day, and she doesnít even want to talk to you. Then you might try to rationally explain to her that she should be happier or something. Like, you know, the universe is cool with you when you have positive feelings, the ďobserverĒ creates reality, blah blah blah. Cool point. But, she needs to have her feelings stimulated. Ok, this stuff might even work cuz, apart from being rational itís also amusing to some people The point is, let go, relax, lead her emotions! You need to feel the emotions yourself in order to be able to have her feel them also.
                          I actually have a different emoticon for every little shade and nuance of emotion I can feel. And I do constantly send the exact emoticon that tells the exact emotion Iím feeling, moment by moment(sometimes though you might wanna send out some emotion youíre not actually feeling but only faking, at least till your emotions are not properly wired in your head). This is willingness to emote! Try it. Iím very high energy on IMS usually so itís like, she getís fascinated and carried away by my emotions even though I might be talking some topic she canít even relate to, even something she does not know or understand. Itís the emotion.


                          COMMANDING HER ATTENTION
                          When youíre in rapport you can start acting even more like the MAN by commanding her attention to your threads. Mystery explains this quite well in revelation. I frankly still find it hard to act so arrogant and get away with it in a set. Iím working on it. But online, you can get away with like 100 times the stuff you can do in person. You can set a frame where everything you say is automatically accepted by her. You could virtually tell them everything. You know that routine by Matador I think.. or was it Lovedrop? I mean this one:
                          Look at you
                          . . . look at you! Youíre drinking like a fish . . . poppiní pills
                          like itís going out of style . . . running around town
                          with your legs spread . . . WIDE open!
                          This is great by the way but, online you can get away with a lot more too! In this routine, the humor subtext is obvious. You can make it even less obvious. Like youíre serious about calling her a slut.. maybe your slut! Works with microcalibration!

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                          • #14
                            WATCH OUT FOR THESE STIKING POINTS
                            I just realized I still have one little sticking point related to Instant Messaging.
                            In the process of using wide and deep rapport, especially when you have high empathy, you must start showing her that she won you over. The ďYouíve hijacked my brainĒ phase I mean.
                            And you do have to get to it. The problem I sometimes stumble upon is she really does hijack my brain. Itís not pickup anymore. I get so much into her head, and I invest so much emotionally that I canít really afford to make any mistakes after that. And sometimes it has a bad effect on my game. I used to lose all lucidity, I went mad, and lost many targets, even after kiss closing. Now Iíve been practicing more self control lately and I go less mad, and Iím less needy nowadays since I get more success than before. But it might be a major problem to a lot of people.
                            The other mistake I used to make(back to my sticking point) is, when you get this invested, you might show too much interest. And youíre at a point where maybe you still have to meet her in person and she already knows she can have you. Then she starts backing off a bit. Then, you need to HAVE EMPATHY NOW, and understand what is happening, and back-step yourself, or you will look like needy and not a challenge to her. This is what Iím working at right now, it does not always happen so I havenít been figuring out this until now.
                            So I believe it is still ok to invest a lot emotionally. Itís ok to get hijacked. But itís not okay to show it more than sheís showing you. And If you do happen to make this mistake, sense it right away and take a step back. Itís just like Plowing! Remain a challenge for as long as you keep interacting with her online. Cuz you might be wrong, she might trick you into thinking sheís better than she erally is, and some girls Iíve met are as good as I am at faking it. Show this to her, let her see you do not totally trust the environment, and you canít really be sure sheís the one until you go out on a date.

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                            • #15
                              Good additional points, RAMM. You do a great job at translating effective "real-world" concepts to the special needs, and pros and cons, of the online environment.

                              I particularly like your emphasis on all these different ways to emote and be expressive and interesting. That's a critical area that so many people miss in online interactions, and applying it correctly adds such an extra level of depth and intimacy that can't be achieved without this emotional awareness of both yourself and your target and your willingness to share it openly. Your ability to emote, and therefore LEAD through emotion, then easily translates into real life if you can retain that same awareness and habitual open exchange. Thanks again for sharing!

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