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  • Alpha Male - Defenition

    Since this topic has come up a couple of times I thought I would take a moment to clarify what is meant be the term "alpha male."

    "Alpha male or female" refers to the holder of the most dominant position in a social hierarchy. The holder of this position typically leads the social group and enjoys mating and food rights. The most important thing to realize is that any particular individual is only "alpha" while holding the dominant position in the hierarchy. Take wolves for example. A wolf pup grows up subordinate to another alpha male but may one day dethrone the alpha male to take his spot as the new alpha male. At this time the old alpha male is knocked out of this position and becomes a beta male.

    In modern human society, alpha males are not determined by physical force but by social standing. Just as in the example above, ones status as an alpha male is temporary and today's alpha male often becomes tomorrows beta male as new alpha males come along and as age takes its toll. Googgle "Rat Pack" for a good example of this or just consider any of the sports greats of the past.

    In this forum "alpha male" is often used in the pejorative as in AMOG. It should be "douche bag of group" because hyper aggressive guys are typically insecure and more douche than alpha. To refer to a man that is rude and overbearing as "alpha" might sound good but it is a misnomer.

    At any rate, the take home message is that "alpha male" is NOT a genetic trait, it is a temporary position among a social hierarchy much like the presidency. This is not to say that there are not personality or even physical traits that predispose some men to attain this position while others fail to do so. Good looks and tall stature are obvious ones that come to mind. Then there are things such as ambition and charisma that may be learned or genetic. In my opinion the majority of the evidence suggests that these are learned traits but that's a whole other issue.

    The thing that is important to know is that many of us who may even be social misfits are capable of becoming an alpha male. Remember, alpha male is a TEMPORARY SOCIAL POSITION that can be attained through hard work. It is NOT something one is born into - wealth not withstanding.

    We are all here because each one of us wants to enjoy the fruits of an alpha male position. Much like running for office, the trick to attaining an alpha position is simply to convince the other members of society to accept your status. That's all there is too it. What Mystery has done is given us the tools to run a successful campaign and to achieve this position. Read and study his work - learn it well and go out and make it happen.

    I hope this helps awaken the alpha males in all of you. Peace.

  • #2
    Originally posted by A36DD4ME View Post
    "Alpha male or female" refers to the holder of the most dominant position in a social hierarchy. The holder of this position typically leads the social group and enjoys mating and food rights. The most important thing to realize is that any particular individual is only "alpha" while holding the dominant position in the hierarchy. Take wolves for example. A wolf pup grows up subordinate to another alpha male but may one day dethrone the alpha male to take his spot as the new alpha male. [COLOR="Red"][B]At this time the old alpha male is knocked out of this position and becomes a beta male.[/B][/COLOR]
    This isn't entirely true. When an existing alpha is challenged for dominance and loses, he does not BECOME a beta, he has been out alpha'd so to speak. While he may no longer be the alpha male of that particular pack, he is still AN alpha male in his own right capable of leading another pack, he must simply find another alpha he believes to be weaker than him to challenge. Not any wolf (or man) can or will challenge an alpha male for dominance, only those that believe that they themselves are more dominant can and will challenge and most likely succeed.

    Originally posted by A36DD4ME View Post
    In modern human society, alpha males are not determined by physical force but by social standing. [COLOR="Red"][B]Just as in the example above, ones status as an alpha male is temporary and today's alpha male often becomes tomorrows beta male as new alpha males come along and as age takes its toll[/B][/COLOR].
    Alpha males are alpha males. FULL STOP
    The acronym AMOG means Alpha Male OF THE GROUP. If you approach a set with an AMOG in it, you do not approach as a beta male and then become alpha after you have "dethroned" him. You approach as AN alpha and look to put yourself in the position of the alpha male of that particular group. The AMOG does not cease to be an alpha or dominant male simply because you out AMOG'd him, he simply is no longer the alpha male of that particular group.

    Originally posted by A36DD4ME View Post
    In this forum "alpha male" is often used in the pejorative as in AMOG. It should be "douche bag of group" because hyper aggressive guys are typically insecure and more douche than alpha. [COLOR="Red"][B]To refer to a man that is rude and overbearing as "alpha" might sound good but it is a misnomer.[/B][/COLOR]
    You're being too literal. It is not a misnomer at all. In this context, regardless of what traits make an AM the AMOG, the fact is that this person controls the frame of that particular group while he/she is in it. Therefore, whether or not you believe them to be merely bossy or a douche bag is irrelevant. What is relevant is that he/she controls the frame of the set and if you hope to game that particular set, you will need to out alpha the AMOG to put yourself in a position where YOU now control the frame of the set.

    Originally posted by A36DD4ME View Post
    [COLOR="Red"][B]At any rate, the take home message is that "alpha male" is NOT a genetic trait, it is a temporary position among a social hierarchy much like the presidency.[/B][/COLOR] This is not to say that there are not personality or even physical traits that predispose some men to attain this position while others fail to do so. Good looks and tall stature are obvious ones that come to mind. Then there are things such as ambition and charisma that may be learned or genetic. In my opinion the majority of the evidence suggests that these are learned traits but that's a whole other issue.
    Again, you're being way too literal. I disagree with this particular point somewhat. While it may not be a genetic TRAIT per say, it is a genetic predisposition, which is what makes naturals, well, naturals. What VAMM and other methods do is give those who are not genetically predisposed to exhibiting the traits of an alpha male the tools to appear more alpha than they typically would when interacting with others without the Venusian Arts. Perception IS reality; therefore if people you interact with PERCEIVE you as an alpha male, to them, you will in fact be one.

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I find it interesting that you called out Johnny Soporno (of all people) for coming off as what you felt to be a know it all and then you post something that smacks of exactly that.

    Johnny knows his shit, as I'm sure you do as well. However, Johnny's true wisdom (IMHO) comes in how he relates his knowledge to this forum and PU in general. While you may theoretically be correct in your description of the analytical definition of an alpha male, where the alpha male and PU are concerned, I for one think you may be a little off the mark.

    Just my .02
    Last edited by BangBang; 11-23-2007, 12:18 AM.

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    • #3
      [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_male[/url]

      "In humans, the expression refers to a man who is powerful or high on the social ladder, similar to hegemonic masculinity."

      But as far as PU community is concerned, alpha male is often used just to describe a guy who's got what it takes to be top, a state of being. It's a different interpretation by most in this community. Check this as well:

      [url]http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/Careers/04/16/cb.alpha/index.html[/url]

      How many here would say Bill Gates is alpha ?

      [url]http://www.changeboard.com/hrcircles/blogs/hrarticles/archive/2007/06/29/the-alpha-male-syndrome.aspx[/url]
      Last edited by free_ethos; 11-23-2007, 03:12 AM.

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      • #4
        The definition I gave is the true academic definition - it is not open to debate. The term "alpha male" refers to a [U]temporary position in the social hierarchy[/U]. In pack animals there is only one alpha male by definition. When the old alpha is replaced he is no longer THE alpha. This is not open to debate.

        Of course, like many terms, people use it loosely. When used as in "AMOG" it is being used to describe an aggressive male obstacle.

        Many guys on this forum use the term to mean an aggressive, confident guy. This is a misnomer and it is the wrong way to look at it if you ever plan on becoming the alpha male. You can LEARN to be confidant and you can LEARN to be aggressive. Also, many insecure people act aggressively and over confident as a way to hide their insecurity - this is not alpha male behavior.

        The thing that is important to a PUA is that he understand that "alpha male" is a title just like CEO, President, King, Prime Minister, etc. You have complete control over your social status and you have just as much ability to be alpha as the next guy.

        It is a harmful mistake to assume that we are all born alpha or beta or omega and it is incorrect to use the term this way. People are entitled to their own opinions but this isn't a matter of opinion.

        Of course we all get to decide what we believe or do not believe. If you believe what I'm telling you you may be on your way to becoming an alpha, if you believe that you are beta by birth and there is nothing you can do to change that then you are probably going to remain beta. The choice is yours. This is my point and I think it is one of the underlying themes of the MM IMHO.
        Last edited by A36DD4ME; 11-23-2007, 08:46 AM.

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        • #5
          Food for thought :

          Many beta males get laid all the time, and many alpha males don't find anything interesting in the females (or people) around them.

          Being an alpha male can be a very lonely and alienated position.

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          • #6
            More food for thought:

            "You don't want to be the social robot that is always playing power games when he should be relaxing and confidently enjoying his interactions with women. People aren't always trying to fuck with you." - MM

            So if you're in the bar thinking "was that alpha? was that alpha? was that beta? WTF was that?" then you're kind of missing the point. All this alpha/beta shit drives me nuts. Just be a confident man for god's sake.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by A36DD4ME View Post
              In this forum "alpha male" is often used in the pejorative as in AMOG. It should be "douche bag of group" because hyper aggressive guys are typically insecure and more douche than alpha. To refer to a man that is rude and overbearing as "alpha" might sound good but it is a misnomer.
              Originally posted by A36DD4ME View Post
              [B]Women who date Alpha Losers[/B]
              We all know at least one. A girl that seems to have everything going for her but she insists on dating ugly, abusive, loser, duche bags with no money, no ambition and worst of all no game.
              I can't help but notice that your own definition of Alpha Male seems to flipflop depending on the thread. So when I saw THIS thread, I was hoping for some clarity in your perspective? ...but your spelling threw me off - I mistakenly thought you meant you were discussing your 'definition' of Alpha Male, rather than your [URL="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/defenestration"]defenestration[/URL] of the concept of Alpha Male -

              You sure have taken the real meaning and chucked it out the window!


              At any rate, the take home message is that "alpha male" is NOT a genetic trait, it is a temporary position among a social hierarchy much like the presidency.
              The presidency is agreeably a 'temporary position among a social hierarchy' but this has nothing to do with Alphas. Most presidents have been Betas.

              Ronald Reagan was an Alpha, Bill Clinton is an Alpha (which explains his inability to keep it in his pants!), George Bush Sr is a Beta, despite having held the U.S. presidency. A Beta (and in GWBush's case, an Omega!) can be groomed to fill the role as president, but that won't make them an Alpha.

              A Beta can emulate the best Alpha traits, (which can be highly desirable and worthwhile), and live as an Alpha, freed from the compulsions which Johnny Soporno described here: [URL]http://www.venusianarts.com/forum/showpost.php?p=40767&postcount=97[/URL]

              As a matter of fact,
              Originally posted by Johnny Soporno
              Originally Posted by [B]SethAudere[/B] [URL="http://www.venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?p=40509#post40509"]http://www.venusianarts.com/forum/im...s/viewpost.gif[/URL]
              [I]The alpha male is per definition the leader of the tribe. This can definitely change.[/I]
              Actually, by definition, the leader of the tribe is DESCRIBED as the Alpha Male, but might not actually BE a naturally-dominant [I]alpha[/I] at all, and if a weaker, less-powerful natural [I]alpha[/I] were to appear, he would virtually certainly assume control of the tribe.
              The leader of the United States is called the President, just as the leader of a pack of wolves is called the Alpha. The difference is in a democratic society it is possible for a person who is not actually 'presidential material' to become President, (example: George Bush I and II), whereas ONLY in cases where there's a absence of naturally dominant males would a Beta ascend to the Alpha role.

              The thing that is important to know is that many of us who may even be social misfits are capable of becoming an alpha male.
              Just like George Bush became President.


              Remember, alpha male is a TEMPORARY SOCIAL POSITION that can be attained through hard work. It is NOT something one is born into - wealth not withstanding.
              Not so in a monarchy, where the person in the role of Alpha male is a position into which they were born and raised. Again, remember that the leader of any group is by definition "the Alpha" but not necessarily[U]An[/U] Alpha.


              We are all here because each one of us wants to enjoy the fruits of an alpha male position. Much like running for office, the trick to attaining an alpha position is simply to convince the other members of society to accept your status.
              Almost. Actually, it's not about convincing them of your status, but rather inspiring them to willfully (or begrudgingly) submit to your leadership. Your status is a [U]result[/U] of that; not the other way around.

              I hope that clears things up for you, and you no longer feel the need to 'incorrect' people.


              Cheers!
              HBPornstar

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              • #8
                I'll tell you what - HB porn star why don't send me clip or two of you in action and I'll define it however you wish.

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                • #9
                  ...

                  Why would he have to qualify to you? That would be an awfully beta thing to do. Dude, stop burying your nose in the dictionary and start studying Social Dynamics like the rest of us.

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                  • #10
                    I give up - I guess there is just no helping some people.

                    Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps some of us see ourselves as having the power to determine our own social standing because we were born alpha males while other see themselves as guys who will have to fake it all their lives because they were born omegas.

                    Maybe that explains our differing viewpoints.

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                    • #11
                      LOL, I like that.

                      I do honestly believe that the point I am making is the main underlying message in Mystery's book and those of us would who took the time to read it understand this.

                      Also, since I have long been a student of human behavior and actually have a degree in biology and know the proper definition of the term "alpha" I thought I would try to help with some words of encouragement by explaining that we all have the ability to become alphas.

                      Unfortunately, I miss-calculated the level of low self esteem and pessimism I would encounter in doing so.

                      The definition I gave is the right one. The way most people here define it is a misnomer that is a product of the popular media. This definition is harmful in that it implies that we are born inferior to other men and must strive to catch up to them. In fact, men that come off as alpha have just been raised to be more confident or have been born into greater wealth and privilege and are treated as alphas by society.

                      There is nothing worse for your inner game than to believe that you were born inferior or subordinate to other men. I am trying to explain that this belief is false and that we all have the power to become alpha.

                      The problem, in my opinion, is that there are a lot of guys here who simply have low opinions of themselves and see themselves as being inferior by birth.

                      I have done all the convincing I can do, if people want to insist on being pathetic that is their own prerogative.

                      For those of you who have not already accepted failure, be rest assured that my definition is the correct one. Alpha male is a position that any man can attain, it is not the luck of the draw. If you want to be alpha, go out and do it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        From a biological perspective, the original poster is correct. However to be accurate, the community has evolved a new and unique concept of what Alpha is. And that's where the disagreement comes in.

                        So let me clarify and give some brief history for those of you who have not been in the game for a number of years.

                        The concept of alpha was first used in the community, as an idea from science, with the definition excactly which has been stated. This was in the early days of Mystery, David Shade, RJ, MrSex4uNYC, and such. (You could search the fastseduction archives and find the exact date if one were so inclined). These developing PUA's were determined, and resourceful as hell, drawing a lot about pickup from other areas in life. Animal mating behavior was heavily studied and discussed, and hence the observation that Alpha animals enjoy the greatest sexual access of any single individual.

                        The original concept was that, females are attracted to alpha males based on the behavioral cues they socially emit. Because society has become so overpopulated relative to our evolutionary conditioning, and since the females observes social cues, one would not have to actually be Alpha in any particular societal hierarchy; they would only have to mimic the behavior traits of one.

                        However over the course of the next couple years, in the community, the idea of being Alpha changed into something different. It could be synonymous with statements like "Be confident" and "Only the most dominant survive, or even "Just Grab your sack and do it". It was then becoming conceptually an internal state, whose origins of 'mimic those in power', were becoming completely forgotten.

                        As even more time passed, the community burgeoned (yes I used that word, get a dictionary if you don't know what it means) with flocks of eager men who weren't satisfied with their sexual fill. Negative emotions were carried over from these men's frustrations and injected into the world of pickup artists. No longer were the roots of Alphaness actually remembered. The community was changing.

                        Being Alpha, and not letting others attain social dominance, even for a moment, was misconstrued to be Beta and even worse taken as representation of one's real status. Field Report's were rife with men trying to prove themselves, as their sole purpose, to prove 'Just How Alpha I Was In Situation X'. Common reponses to these reports were either "Wow dude. You're so Alpha (with Tyler Durden sarcasm laid in deeply here), or "Man, that's so Beta."

                        As an instructor, its my obligation to empower new minds with knowledge and remind them of the history from which we have come to where we are right now:


                        So over the course of many years, our concept has evolved. It has gone from a state defined externally by social cues, to internally by behavioral cues.

                        Neither is right and neither is wrong.

                        To give you an example of this. Imagine a room full of Alpha males gathered in one place. Tom Cruise, Brett Favre, Donald Trump, John F. Kennedy, James Bond, And Indiania Jones. Obviously this room is fictional, but nonetheless relevant.

                        Now they are all sitting down at a table enjoying drinks and awaiting dinner. Bond is telling a story of how he saved the world from total annihilation and seduced the king of Somesmallcountry's daughter. He is, at the moment holding court, and his immediate status is reflected by such by those who are socially calibrated.

                        Does this mean Bond is the Alpha male of the group?

                        No. They are all Alpha males.

                        Does this mean Bond is holding court with the other Alpha males?

                        Yes. For the moment.

                        Does this make him any more of an Alpha male when he leaves them room?

                        No. They go back to each of their Alpha Male lives.


                        If you want to understand Alpha I suggest you do 3 things. First, find men who lead other men and learn to respect and mimic them. Second, find other men who are younger or lesser status and be that first man for them. And third, pickup a copy of Robert Greene's 48 Laws of Power and read it at least twice.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Johnny you are too funny. First off, I am older than you so it's kind of funny you calling me kid. Plus, it is abundantly clear that you have no knowledge what so ever on the topic of which you are speaking which is no surprise judging from your clearly fraudulent self professed status as some kind of social dynamics guru. I guess it is no wonder that you need to try to leech off of Mystery's forum to try to divert traffic to your little project.

                          To be quite honest, I saw your stuff on line and you really come off as a super creepy guy and a total fraud. You may have some of these kids fooled but I do not believe any of your crap for a single second.

                          I have seen other posts in which you presumed to advise Mystery on his legal matters as if you are a lawyer and he can't afford a real lawyer to handle those things for him. I suppose you are an intellectual property lawyer in your spare time too.

                          Do all of us a favor and stop feeding everyone here your BS. If you are the big shot guru that you claim to be why don't you stop feeding of Mysety's nuts and start your own forum. I am and always have been successful with women and unlike you I don't need to make a cheesy my space page that say "don't believe me look at these pictures." Good god man you got some drunk bitches in a few bars to pose for pictures with you and you act as if that is proof that you are somebody. I have dozens of pictures of hot women that I really do hang with but unlike you I don't plaster them on a sleazy my space page to prove that I'm not a loser. If that is not the definition of pathetic and DLV I don't know what is. When I see people like you it's no wonder there are guys making you tube videos calling us sleazy. I invite anybody reading these lines to visit your website and see for themselves. But for God sakes I just hope nobody gets the impression that you represent the VA community.

                          Beware guys, if you come off like this guy you better get used to hearing the words "get lost creep" on a regular basis.

                          As for the horse shit you are trying to pass off as academic why don't you post up some legitimate sources or STFU.

                          Oh and with regard to siblings demonstrating different personality traits - science has to this date been unable to determine weather or not such differences are genetic or learned as even siblings raised in the same family are subject to numerous differences in the way they are raised and socialized. It is even suggested that birth order has a large impact on the development of each sibling. Nor have studies of identical twins raised together or apart yielded any substantial information with regard to nature Vs nurture. There are simply too many variables.

                          For instance, it is common for the youngest of several siblings to demonstrate greater social skills than the others as a result of their need to learn to persuade their older siblings. These social skills can later translate into success in life and alpha status. So your little Godfather example just proves what I've said previously in this post. That is that you typically pull your facts out of your ass and try to pass them off as fact in a pathetic effort to pretend like you are something you are not. Clearly, this is what you are doing here as everything you are saying is quite simply a load of crap.

                          I invite anybody here to Google nature Vs nurture and you will find that there is no conclusive evidence for either side. The bulk of the evidence at this time suggests that most personality traits are probably learned as personality is generally too complex to be a genetic expression.

                          If what I'm saying pisses some of you off because you have known this clown for a while that is fine with me. I hope you guys like having smoke blown up your ass.
                          Last edited by A36DD4ME; 11-25-2007, 01:03 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ad hominem argument?
                            C'mon fellows lets get this thread move to the Fight Club sub-forum.

                            I'll start-Ya mum wears army boots!......NEXT!

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                            • #15
                              Well if you guys all have websites on the Internet you must all be legit.

                              Anybody here familiar with the term circular reasoning? "I know what I am talking about because me and these two other Mystery knockoffs have our own websites that say so."

                              I'll tell you what, only the most gullible could look at that picture and not immediately notice your transparency and lack of congruence. Save for the one on the far right, just look at the way you guys are dressed. I watched one of your You Tube videos for about 30 seconds until the guy next to you in that picture started speaking with such vulgarity I was was disinclined to listen further. I looked at your website and the first thing I saw was you standing there wearing a vulgar, offensive T shirt coming off like some kind of porn industry reject while trying to act like you are an accomplished PUA with your own field tested material.

                              You actually have on your website a statement that those who "don't believe me" look at these pictures of me with girls. Who on Earth are you trying to convince with that?

                              The problem I have with you is not just that you are trying to knock off Mystery's work and sell these kids snake oil - everyone wants to make a buck. But you do it in a manner that in my opinion cheapens the community and makes us all look sleazy by association.

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