Converting Girl Friends into 'Girlfriends'

[Johnny Soporno]

I ran this by a giggle of girlfriends who ALL, UNIFORMLY agreed with me - but this ONLY works with REAL friendships... not girls whom you've only befriended because you couldn't get them to sleep with you....

Here goes:
Women want to have fun.
Women love to have sex!

This may include Recreational-Only Sex with MEN THEY KNOW THEY CAN TRUST!

Naturally, anyone they consider truly a friend would fall into that category - BUT NO ONE WANTS TO RISK LOSING A FRIEND!

Therefore most women won't chance beginning a sexual relationship where there is currently a solid friendship.
THEREFORE IT IS ESSENTIAL that the girl understands she absolutely won't lose your friendship either way, and that
YOU ARE OFFERING HER SOMETHING - NOT ASKING FOR ANYTHING!

The decision is ALWAYS in her court.

Most women have learned the hard-way that IF they sleep with a guy whom they respect, appreciate, and admire - BUT ARE NOT OVERLY TURNED ON BY - it will end badly, when the guy begins to wish to become their 'Boyfriend'. They will lose their opportunity to be 'Just Friends' with that guy once things sort themselves out, because HIS ego will be bruised and he won't be able to forgive her for the 'rejection' he feels.

IF YOU COMMUNICATE TO A FEMALE FRIEND IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS:

A ) YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED IN BEING HER BOYFRIEND, nor do you want her as 'your Girlfriend' -- 'cuz while the respect/friendship/admiration is there in abundance, the chemistry isn't a fit - there's no 'Romantic Crush' aspect for how you feel about her - Just true, real, justifiable appreciation, and that's enough!

B ) YOU ARE ALREADY HER FRIEND which makes her much more important and interesting than just someone you'd like to have sex with - and you wouldn't change that for the world; BUT.... You are a boy, and she is a girl, and that's a nice arrangement.

Try saying something like this to her: "You know I would NEVER fuck-you-over; ...But I'd gladly fuck you over-and-over!"
(I have used this line for a decade with fantastic success - it's light and cute and funny and reassuring all at once)

C) YOU DEFINATELY DON'T WANT TO INTERFERE WITH HER PURSUIT OF 'MR. RIGHT' nor would you stop pursuing and sleeping with other girls... in fact, you'd appreciate any pointers or suggestions which would help your Game, and of course you'll be more than happy to hook her up with new guys you think might suit her...

D) YOU'RE GOING TO LEAVE THIS WITH HER - and there's truly no urgency at all - nothing will change between you either way; at least, not negatively :) ...but you know you'd be a fool not to let her know that you'd enjoy having friendly-fun-without-strings with her, and that she can rely upon you for non-judgemental acceptance.

That last bit, the 'non-judgemental acceptance', is a FANTASTIC OFFER for any woman. It guarantees her the security she craves, and relaxes the fears she may have about her reputation's being damaged by her taking you up on your offer...

You are offering her a 'FREE PASS' - because YOU WON'T COUNT!
When she considers the number of guys she'll admit to having 'been with' - SHE WON'T 'COUNT' YOU - You're her FRIEND!
There's no 'romance' there, no chance of a 'serious relationship', and no need to write-about you in her diary... YOU SIMPLY WON'T COUNT!

REMEMBER, that's what's happening here: YOU ARE OFFERING HER SOMETHING SHE WANTS, and at a price she can afford!
(ie, fun sex with someone who will stick around, be loyal (though not exclusive!) and trustworthy, and IS her friend-for-real.)

My comfort in this Frame, the notion that WOMEN LOVE SEX, and would have lots more of it if they felt confident that their partners weren't going to disappear OR become Cling-ons, is absolute.

One caveat, again - YOU CAN ONLY OFFER THIS IF YOU TRULY WILL REMAIN FRIENDS WITH THE GIRL, EITHER WAY:

She might not immediately accept your offer; she might not agree for months, or until someone she's seeing flakes on her, breaks up with her, or whatever; or maybe NEVER. But if you are SINCERE, and nothing changes either way between you, you will rise in her esteem and SHE WILL consider it, subconciously as well as conciously.

If you are faking, if you change your behaviour towards her once you make the offer, if you are trying to GET HER rather than offer yourself TO HER, she'll sniff it out, and you'll seriously drop in her estimation. Maybe costing you the friendship.

Johnny Soporno - Worthy Playboy
"The Man Who Didn't Count"

[Slojodan]

True, good female friends are valuable, and often hard to find. Don't chance ruining it for a lay.

Your relationship her WILL change from sex. There's no way it can't.

It's simply a poverty mentality to try to fuck your friends when there are plenty of girls you don't even know that you can fuck instead.

Let friends stay friends.

--Dan

[Johnny Soporno]

True, good female friends are valuable, and often hard to find. Don't chance ruining it for a lay.


Absolutely correct - that's an essential component of my message above:

Women DESPERATELY WANT men who can and will be their friends; who will respect them as peers, share insights and emotional support, and have signifigant, ongoing, persistant relationships with them.


Your relationship her WILL change from sex. There's no way it can't.


Also correct - a solid friendship which is augemented by non-judgemental acceptance and a sexually-liberated frame will ALWAYS be improved by the enhancement of growing-closer through sex. It has to, no question.


It's simply a poverty mentality to try to fuck your friends when there are plenty of girls you don't even know that you can fuck instead.


Here's where we diverge, Dan -

I don't fuck anyone I can't be friends with; and I won't rule someone out as a friend just because they're female; and I won't deny a female my sexual affections just because we're friends. Q.E.D.

I have followed this philosophy and approach for the last 20 years or so, and I've slept with nearly ALL my sexually-attractive female friends. I am still on good terms with all of them, [excepting ones where the friendship died for unrelated reasons] and I even still have sex with most of them, from time to time.

The model I'm describing above DOES work, ABSOLUTELY, IF you are able truly to put the choice entirely in HER hands.

Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy

[JohnJohnJohnson]

that's what's cool about the community, we are living (or learning to live) outside the "rules" people think exist about human relations

[CrimsonKing]

Cool post. It still strikes me as risky business, but if you can pull it off then more power to ya!

[Cedar]

Well written, Johnny.

[Flavio]

GREAT!

Love,
Flavio

[RetiredNinja]

Outstanding post Johnny! I could have really used this info a few months ago.

There was a young woman a few years older than I, that I was having sex with who wanted a "friends with benefits" arrangement. I probably wasn't confident or secure enough to accept it. When she told me that's what she wanted, I thought "cool, no problem" but soon enough, I started to develop feelings for her rather than respect the arrangement and go out and find other women.

That's why being sexually liberated is so huge! She was obviously more sexually liberated than I, and guess what happened? She saw that my ego would be bruised by a non-exclusive sexual relationship, and soon after, the sex stopped happening!

This post is so relevant to that situation! Sex can just be fun! It doesn't have to be so heavy and laden with expectation!! Thanks for this post Johnny.

[Intrigue]

Great stuff...

What would the next step be? How do you transition from being in the friends zone of a girl to going to friends with benefits zone? I mean I have a bunch of friends who are girls, most of whom I never tried to pursue, for various reasons.

This is something I wouldn't mind trying.

[Razor]

Great post!!! It has sence.
Talk to ya later,
-Razor

[Smurk]

Johnny you annoy me for some reason.

Maybe its your knowledge,maybe its your shisaz. ;)

Awsome post

[#1AFC]

Why waste your time being friends when you can find someone to fuck.

Being friends with girls is sooooo AFC, thats the type of stuff I would do!!!

Also being friends... that just means you are an orbiter!!!

If she becomes friends with you and you bring up the fact that you want to fuck her she will get really angry.

[relics]

#1AFC: Hey, I want to fuck you
HB:WATF:mad:

I don't blame her. Read Johnny's post again.

[Dan]

That is genius...I never thought about that angle

[Rick Shambles]

Hey man,

I feel like you talk about the "attitudes" that are needed to pull this off, but no real examples of how I would go about doing it.



shambles

[sigma]

Your relationship her WILL change from sex. There's no way it can't.

It's simply a poverty mentality to try to fuck your friends when there are plenty of girls you don't even know that you can fuck instead.

--Dan

Dan

I think it is a shame that you are likely missing out on the BEST sex you could possibly be having, because of this mentality.

Your very belief that the friendship circle and the sex circle exist as separate entities is why they do in your world.

Dan I urge you to try this, there are women in your life that would love to have casual open sex, but cannot, because the few times they have tried it, the results have been negative. Show them that you are a strong, mature, open friend, that is able to give them both sex and friendship, and I can assure them you will give them plenty of both !



s i g m a

[Johnny Soporno]

I feel like you talk about the "attitudes" that are needed to pull this off, but no real examples of how I would go about doing it.


Start with figuring out if your friendship with a girl is an authentic one.

If it is, (they are genuinely people whom you enjoy, trust, regard-highly, and who feel the same about you) then this re-framing (both in your mind and in hers) will be most-welcome.

Once again - the KEY is to remember her is that SHE WANTS TO HAVE SEX with guys who she doesn't need to include in her own scorecount...

Guys who "don't count" for whatever reasons of logical-equivocation as she needs...

Maybe you're inviting her for a threesome with another girl; she's always wanted to try it, but hasn't been willing because she didn't want to 'share' her boyfriend with another girl - But YOU are not her boyfriend, and she's not risking anything - AND she doesn't have to consider this as 'cheating' because she's going to bed with a couple, so she's not REALLY doing anything 'with another guy', so to speak...

Women are very good at finding ways to 'not count' things. Ask any of your female friends about THAT! :)

Johnny Soporno
Sexual Revolutionary

[Rumble]

Instead of a hook, this should be the root of life ..

[specialK]

The girls I can think of atm who have remained good friends year after year are not the ones I would attempt this with. I would be glad just to be able to keep female friends around in the first place. They always drop out...despite unmistakable, deep, connections that they seem to have with me when friends. (platonic that is). One told me about dreams she had about me and many shared things they don't tell many people. They show interest in and participate in my life and want me in theirs but then...poof. I've never figured it out. I know my sitch right now is not very interesting or exciting, but REAL friends, which many of them demonstrated themselves to be, would have to have a major reason to just vanish like that, right? So if I ever figure out how to keep femfriends I make, maybe then I can work on this type of worry free sex they so much want. Or maybe that I didn't is the reason they split! :eek:

[sigma]

The girls I can think of atm who have remained good friends year after year are not the ones I would attempt this with. I would be glad just to be able to keep female friends around in the first place. They always drop out...despite unmistakable, deep, connections that they seem to have with me when friends. (platonic that is). One told me about dreams she had about me and many shared things they don't tell many people. They show interest in and participate in my life and want me in theirs but then...poof. I've never figured it out. I know my sitch right now is not very interesting or exciting, but REAL friends, which many of them demonstrated themselves to be, would have to have a major reason to just vanish like that, right? So if I ever figure out how to keep femfriends I make, maybe then I can work on this type of worry free sex they so much want. Or maybe that I didn't is the reason they split! :eek:



That is very strange.

Can you give an example of this happening, I would love to try to help, maybe we can pinpoint what it is.. has this ever happened with guy friends in your life ?



And don't say your sitch is not very interesting! It's just not true. Go and tell somebody that you discovered this community and now post on a message board with life coaches, and mens relationship counselors, i bet more than a handful of people will say that is pretty damn interesting !

[specialK]

That is very strange.

Can you give an example of this happening, I would love to try to help, maybe we can pinpoint what it is.. has this ever happened with guy friends in your life ?

And don't say your sitch is not very interesting!
I guess I meant in comparison to the type of lifestyle we are encouraged to cultivate. If a girl is looking for lots of fun, I mean, I am a fun, interesting guy and like to do things but right now I’m in a situation where I can’t just go out and do much.

Thanks for the offer to help. It has happened with guy friends too. let me see if I can post something that has enough detail without overdoing it!

HBA is a good example. We met on the job and worked together a lot. There was instant chemistry between us and if I hadn’t been so AFC then who knows? We were close in age. We noticed an amazing number of coincidences between us and similarities in thoughts, tastes, you name it. Eventually we both appeared in each other’s dreams, sometimes with subtle erotic subplots. Frequently I would mention something I had just read that was interesting and her jaw would drop because she’d just been reading about the same thing but in a totally different book…or maybe had been thinking about it, or had heard it from some other person. If either of us hadn’t been open-minded it probably would have weirded us out. I’d have rated her 8 and it seemed there was a lot of sexual tension going on. We flirted a lot but since we worked together I guess I never tried to escalate with her out of fear. It also was kind of surprising to me then, that she would have that kind of interest. But our friendship escalated naturally without effort, very quickly. I knew very little about NLP or comfort building, but I did alright with it with most women. We hung out occasionally but not much. Mostly we talked on the phone or at work where we shared an office. After about a year of this, realizing she could trust me with anything, she came out to me, revealing she was gay/bi. Neat. HBA told me about the relationship she was in and answered whatever questions I had…up to then I’d never had a friend who was lez or bi before, so I had a lot of questions! A few years later, I quit that job but we still kept in touch frequently. She ended her relationship and met another woman who seemed to bring her a lot of problems. I hung out with her and her girlfriend a few times and we all had a good time. My buddy and I helped them move once. They seemed to settle their issues and remained together but over about a year’s time, maybe 2, HBA took much longer to return my calls and eventually stopped altogether. It’s now been at least 6 months since the last message I left for her.

HBM was a friend of a friend. She was over 18 but much younger than me, a petite HB8 with enormous boobs. There seemed to be an instant connection and we quickly found a lot of common ground. She had a boyfriend and I didn’t think I could steal her away, yet we talked for hours on the phone, borrowed books from each other and there was no question how much she lit up when I stopped by her work to see her. Her boyfriend found my number on her phone and called to try to start some shit with me. He was pissed but I told him she and I had been friends a long time what’s the big deal? She disappeared after that. At least that one makes sense. I hope he didn't hurt her (physically) he seemed like the type and had a pretty short fuse.

[sigma]

I guess I meant in comparison to the type of lifestyle we are encouraged to cultivate. If a girl is looking for lots of fun, I mean, I am a fun, interesting guy and like to do things but right now I’m in a situation where I can’t just go out and do much.

Thanks for the offer to help. It has happened with guy friends too. let me see if I can post something that has enough detail without overdoing it!

HBA is a good example. We met on the job and worked together a lot. There was instant chemistry between us and if I hadn’t been so AFC then who knows? We were close in age. We noticed an amazing number of coincidences between us and similarities in thoughts, tastes, you name it. Eventually we both appeared in each other’s dreams, sometimes with subtle erotic subplots. Frequently I would mention something I had just read that was interesting and her jaw would drop because she’d just been reading about the same thing but in a totally different book…or maybe had been thinking about it, or had heard it from some other person. If either of us hadn’t been open-minded it probably would have weirded us out. I’d have rated her 8 and it seemed there was a lot of sexual tension going on. We flirted a lot but since we worked together I guess I never tried to escalate with her out of fear. It also was kind of surprising to me then, that she would have that kind of interest. But our friendship escalated naturally without effort, very quickly. I knew very little about NLP or comfort building, but I did alright with it with most women. We hung out occasionally but not much. Mostly we talked on the phone or at work where we shared an office. After about a year of this, realizing she could trust me with anything, she came out to me, revealing she was gay/bi. Neat. HBA told me about the relationship she was in and answered whatever questions I had…up to then I’d never had a friend who was lez or bi before, so I had a lot of questions! A few years later, I quit that job but we still kept in touch frequently. She ended her relationship and met another woman who seemed to bring her a lot of problems. I hung out with her and her girlfriend a few times and we all had a good time. My buddy and I helped them move once. They seemed to settle their issues and remained together but over about a year’s time, maybe 2, HBA took much longer to return my calls and eventually stopped altogether. It’s now been at least 6 months since the last message I left for her.

HBM was a friend of a friend. She was over 18 but much younger than me, a petite HB8 with enormous boobs. There seemed to be an instant connection and we quickly found a lot of common ground. She had a boyfriend and I didn’t think I could steal her away, yet we talked for hours on the phone, borrowed books from each other and there was no question how much she lit up when I stopped by her work to see her. Her boyfriend found my number on her phone and called to try to start some shit with me. He was pissed but I told him she and I had been friends a long time what’s the big deal? She disappeared after that. At least that one makes sense. I hope he didn't hurt her (physically) he seemed like the type and had a pretty short fuse.


OK

I think I can help.. but it is going to be a BIG one

message me and we can start man... but this is going to be a BIG one, may take us sometime, but I will do all i can for you !

[Johnny Soporno]

HBA is a good example.

There was instant chemistry between us... Eventually we both appeared in each other’s dreams, sometimes with subtle erotic subplots.
I’d have rated her 8 and it seemed there was a lot of sexual tension going on. We flirted a lot but since we worked together I guess I never tried to escalate with her out of fear.

Ok, the reason HBA moved-on is because:

A) she was tired of waiting for you to open her, as you kept ignoring the signals. (Women HATE rejection as much as men do, but since they 'instigate' far less frequently, they aren't as hardened to it as men.)

AND/OR

B) she and her current partner have descended into a 'co-dependent' relationship, and she is no longer able to stay in touch with anyone her partner might feel is a threat.

...realizing she could trust me with anything, she came out to me, revealing she was gay/bi.

Authentic Lesbians don't 'come out' to straight men as 'gay/bi' - they flatly tell men they aren't into guys, period.

No woman EVER 'comes out' as bisexual to a man unless she's trying to impress him, because she KNOWS she's not disqualifying him sufficiently to scare him off...

HBA clearly wasn't looking for you to be her exclusive partner - but she almost certainly was waiting for you to pick up the bait, and at-least become her playmate!

HBM was a friend of a friend. She was over 18 but much younger than me, a petite HB8 with enormous boobs. There seemed to be an instant connection and we quickly found a lot of common ground. She had a boyfriend and I didn’t think I could steal her away, yet we talked for hours on the phone, borrowed books from each other and there was no question how much she lit up when I stopped by her work to see her.

You're frame was poor - you didn't need to 'steal her away from her boyfriend' at all; what you needed to do was to follow the steps in the Original Post in this thread, and let her opt to spend some quality sexual-playtime with you, without its necessarily impacting on her relationship with her boyfriend.

As you learned, her boyfriend CONSIDERED you to be 'an affair' and it cost you ALL access to her, and as-yet-unknown problems for her!

The only difference was, you didn't get any! And she didn't learn that she would be better-off without him! Who was served by this? NOBODY.

Hope this helps!

Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy

[specialK]

I think you're right with a) and b) for HBA moving on. I had asked if she was into guys. I should have picked up on her vagueness, though she said it had been some time since she did anything with a guy. She had been exclusive with this one woman for at least a few years and I didn't get any indication she had been unfaithful...though she likely wouldn't have told me about anyone who didn't count. From her actions and words she seemed to want to be faithful to the woman she was with at that time, I might have read her wrong. I hadn't considered it was possible for me not to count. After she met the new girlfriend, she began to get scarce, partly because her new partner was kinda jealous, controlling and yeah, co-dependent.

For HBM, "steal her away" was bad choice of words. If I'd had your post then I would have had a better idea what was going on, played it out differently. She would have still had to not let him find my number on her phone though.

So yeah, it helps. These things are frustrating. I haven't been in any similar situations like these for a while though, hopefully I can apply the new knowledge in the future.

[Johnny Soporno]

i told her i'd be free next weekend at the earliest, she said alright i'll be at your place friday night to talk about things more.


Remind her on Thursday night 'Don't forget to shave!'
(this will remove any doubt in her mind that you are into her 'that way' and also remove any girls' #1 defense against going to bed: "I didn't shave!"

If she asks "Why?" then explain to her candidly what I wrote above in parenthesis. :)

Enjoy!

Johnny Soporno

[specialK]

Johnny S, I meant to add: It seems like you're saying I should have known these things?

[Johnny Soporno]

Johnny S, I meant to add: It seems like you're saying I should have known these things?

K, I'm not criticizing you, merely pointing out that FOR NEXT TIME, don't presume you've lost before you've begun...

I'm not an advocate of 'should' as a construct - I'm not coming down on you at all :) I would have known those things, much in the way an experienced auto-mechanic hears you driving in and knows from the sound what's the most-likely problem.

Women send SO MANY "C'mon already!" signals, virtually to every man they can stand, and rely upon the men intuitively to pick up on them, and take the lead from there.

:)

Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy

[specialK]

K, I'm not criticizing you, merely pointing out that FOR NEXT TIME, don't presume you've lost before you've begun...
Cool man...I wasn't sure I was reading you right so I kinda worded it as a question. It thought it likely you meant it as non-critical but didn't realize (or want to presume) I knew you that well just from forum posts. :)


Women send SO MANY "C'mon already!" signals, virtually to every man they can stand
that was funny.

Yeah I think I need to go to "mechanic's" school and refine my intuition, cuz missing even those not-so-subtle hints blows. I don't know but it seems like a long road ahead. Thanks, man.

I have a girl friend coming over this weekend because she wants to chill and "check out this new song I'm working on". I'll be practicing my best inner game, see where it goes.

[Couture]

Johnny, your are genius at setting the right frames to get the desired results. Very thought provoking, thanks.

[irelad]

About a year or so ago, I was friends with a girl and to be honest, I had oneitis. I was one of those pathetic male "friends" who really wanted to be her boyfriend. I had all the classic symptoms - I liked her a lot, thought I was better for her than her current boyfriend, listened to her problems, running around doing almost anything. I really liked her.

I moved country and a few weeks after I did, she told me that she had broken up with him. I couldn't believe it. There I had waited and waited and finally once it happened, I was no longer living in the country. Like a complete fucking loser, a few days after they finished, I sent her a text messsage (yes you read right, a text message) to tell her that I liked her. Needless to say like every other guy who has come out of the oneitis closet, I got completely blown out. My intial reaction was anger and bitterness. I wasn't being nasty to her, but I didn't contact her for ages. I think it must have been a few months at least.

Unsurprisingly she is now with someone else, who I think she met a couple of months after finishing with the other guy.

I think it was her who eventually broke the ice and sent me an email about how things were going for her. She is a really nice girl and even though I was fucked off that she rejected me, I knew that she was a good hearted person and a good friend and I would be a fool to throw that away.

Now it seems we are getting back to being as friendly as we were before. We are back to using our pet names for each other and I don't have oneitis any longer.

The only thing is that I don't think she realises that by rejecting me, she becomes obligated to become my pivot in field ;)

In fairness, I'd say she would be great at it.

[Johnny Soporno]

I think it was her who eventually broke the ice and sent me an email about how things were going for her. She is a really nice girl and even though I was fucked off that she rejected me, I knew that she was a good hearted person and a good friend and I would be a fool to throw that away.

Now it seems we are getting back to being as friendly as we were before. We are back to using our pet names for each other and I don't have oneitis any longer.

Perfect! Now you're approaching the time to begin clarifying those points I laid-out in the Original Post... hopefully she senses that you're no-longer carrying-a-torch for her, but rather you've transcended 'the whole sex thing' and now you've matured enough to make her this offer!

Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy

[maxtall]

Johnny,

I'd love to see you write an ebook.

Whatever you got in that brain of yours about women, seduction, meeting, attraction, I'd be happy to pay fifty bucks for it.

Or just keep up the killer posts.

That's just a beautiful post you made. Of course, if you're AFC, I don't think the girl would go for it anyways.

But I think if you're mostly recovered and do that it could work.

Maxtall

[ganglord]

Johnny, this is great stuff and I want to use this.

Do you start with the offer and assure her that there will always be a friendship and it's totally her choice or do you give the assurance first and the offer last?

Perhaps give the offer and then before you even get a response give the assurance?

[Seduction]

Great stuff.
Only thing I see as a problem is that she could easily fall in love with you, yes?

[DateDemon]

I have been doing this exact thing for years. Johnny is brilliant and I did it naturally but he definitely takes a different approach to it. He is all about sexual liberation and the "I don't count" mentality. I have always done it as a "As friends we are more emotionally connected and that emotional connection is what makes hook ups great" I have always viewed it as hook ups revolve around connecting with an individual (well the great ones) and you can view it as two main types of connections romantic and friendship. The good thing though is a deep friendship connection will always beat out a weak romantic one . I communicate to the girl that we are connected as friends and that affection for each other can be expressed physically but it still isn't a "romantic" connection.

On whether the girl will fall for you... Depends how you play it but you can easily avoid this for the most part. First of all I would suggest not seeing the person that often! Usually once a week maybe twice is as often as i will ever allow. Also you have to not take it serious and just have fun, dont get all romantic and take her to dinner keep the friendship vibe. Also it is CRITICAL how you set up the frame!! Johnny stresses you should be close friends. If you are close friends you should know the person and if you think they are going to fall for you because of a little physical contact then maybe you shouldn't do it. You also need to make sure she is going to still be looking for other guys to date. You DO NOT want to ever give her the idea that she should even consider stopping her search for Mr. Right and that if she ever meets anyone that may be that person that you will be just friends with no physical contact immediately until that endeavor is explored to its conclusion.

I could talk about this for hours. If you want to chat more about it then send me a Private Message. Like I said though I do differ from Johnny, he is really brilliant but the bottom line is these relationships are possible and there are multiple ways to get to the same end. Johnny's is great because it has a really good message behind it, mine is great too. While it may be not as liberating sexually since I dont know what his relationships are like, it still allows you to have sexual relations with girls you are strictly friends with, without it getting weird and it will in fact improve your relationships.

The ultimate best is when a girl you are close friends with that you begin hooking up with tells her friends and you start getting her friends based on the word of mouth or even 3somes =P which rock.

[blade18rivers]

Absolutely brilliant insight Johnny!

[photomagik]

Hey,

I guess my question is, that i dont recall seeing here, Will a girl whos your friend IOI in the same way that a girl you just met at a nightclub will? If I grab her hand and squeeze, is her not squeezing back the same as a girl at the club not squeezing back?

As a student of photography i have MANY friends that are girls who model for me. all HB7's +. Some of them i consider to be good friends too, but i would love to maybe get a little bit further with them. If i just met a girl, i can tell her IOI's, but if its a friend, i get confused if shes been secretly attracted to me and coming on to me at all, or if shes just being playful and friendly. ya know?

[chillspike]

This was really well written and I also feel I am in a prime position for attempting this with a very close friend of mine. Without knowing of your method,Jonny, I have actually done step "A" and told her I didn't want to be her bf in a unskilled and under informed attempt to move in the direction your thread was designed to take victims of "LJBF's" syndrome..It didn't really go anywhere because I didn't really make clear what I was asking her...she didn't say yes or no...she probably didn't even know what I was driving at..

Anyway, if you have time, I'd like to know exactly how I go about asking this of her. How exactly, step by step, do I word this? Also, i see your intent, but I'm not exactly sure how you use the word "trust". Do you mean recreational sex with someone that won't tell anyone? If so, I'm certainly that person, but how do I explicitly convey that to her?

Are you saying certain women really do want sex with their friends as long as they are secure in the knowledge that the friend won't tell anyone?

Thanks.

[specialK]

... not girls whom you've only befriended because you couldn't get them to sleep with you....

wait...most of them wouldn't sleep with me, then what?

OK, more seriously though...

JS says "Treat every woman as though she were your lover, and soon she will be!" So I haven't had that many lovers (yet. plus it's been and extremely long time) so other than the obvious, what does this mean? I mean, I don't know how to treat her like my lover if I can't even get her to come over (or whatever). :confused: What can I do specifically? Who can give me some ideas on this? Thanks.

sK