Here is what nick is saying

[*** Mathew Stone ***]

I read this off of his blog, but sadly, he is not allowing people to post comments or questions without his approval... censorship by any other name.

Here is what he said: (I kept the grammatical errors intact, it's funnier that way)

On behalf of The Mystery Method...sorry this is so formal but maybe this will answer things once and for all.

We have an announcement to make about some events of the past two and a half years. While while nothing would make us happier than to disclose all the facts to you, we cannot do so in detail because we are the plaintiff in a pending lawsuit and we do not wish to inflame the situation.

For the past 2 and a half years, Mystery Method has grown beyond a one-man operation. We have instructors, coaches, staff and volunteers all who work hard to bring you the products and services you see now. Despite our efforts to resolve this matter through negotiation, we are now forced to seek legal help to ensure our years of work building this company are protected.
This situation is unfortunate because, at Mystery Method, we would rather focus on the important issues at hand and on what we know best -- dating the best and most desirable women.

That being said, we can tell you this much; the same instructors who have been teaching the overwhelming majority of our courses the past couple of years are still with us and are still teaching those same courses. The same leadership team is in place. The same money back guarantee applies. The same or better results are being achieved. If anything, we now have more freedom to develop and publish greater revolutionary techniques previously unreleased to the you, our customers and guests. Some of these programs, such as Day Game and Relationship Management, have already been released.

We continue to appreciate your support and interest and will keep all of you informed as we are able to release more information.

[TripleSeven]

"the same instructors who have been teaching the overwhelming majority of our courses the past couple of years are still with us."

Someone's a little hungry for credit.... without any slander. Or else his lawsuit is screwed.

[armac]

Censorship because you couldn't post on HIS blog?

It's HIS blog... Grow up

This same item has been discussed over on the MM Forum and zero censorship has been done by them on this issue.

Plus he is saying that Mystery has not been involved in a boot camp in a while saying the group everyone used to and still does rave about Sinn, Ten Mag, and others are still there.

[Limelight]

Censorship because you couldn't post on HIS blog?

It's HIS blog... Grow up

This same item has been discussed over on the MM Forum and zero censorship has been done by them on this issue.

Plus he is saying that Mystery has not been involved in a boot camp in a while saying the group everyone used to and still does rave about Sinn, Ten Mag, and others are still there.

What? The URL of this site is being deleted all the time on the MM lounge furthermore the first person who talked about it got banned! This is no censorship???:eek:

[Masters]

What? The URL of this site is being deleted all the time on the MM forum furthermore the first person who talked about it got banned! This is no censorship???:eek:

The first person who talked about this site wasn't banned. A guy was banned on the lounge for reposting how to google the site after he was warned not to post a link here, as the site was being treated as advertisement on the lounge. Notice there's a thread on our forums about this place? Yeah, the posters aren't banned.

[Limelight]

The first person who talked about this site wasn't banned. A guy was banned on the lounge for reposting how to google the site after he was warned not to post a link here, as the site was being treated as advertisement on the lounge. Notice there's a thread on our forums about this place? Yeah, the posters aren't banned.

Just one question: Would you (or your company) allow Lovedrop or Matador to post at the MM forum?

[Matador]

Lovedrop set up Mystery’s Forum and Mystery’s Lounge.

Both of these discussion boards have been renamed without Mystery’s consent.

Both of our accounts do not work on either forum now.

We have not received the Students Records for Mystery’s Lounge from Savoy as of yet. We need this list to verify all legitimate Mystery’s Lounge members. As you know, we feel that the quality of guys in there would qualify (for free) to join our Venusian Arts VIP Lounge. We cannot get this process started until we get the student records from Savoy.

Masters is a MM Forum Admin and works for Savoy.

I am still going to let Masters and Savoy post here as we believe in free speech.

[ware_ru]

I posted a thread in the Offtopic section of themm board with venusianarts.com in the title. The name was blanked out automatically and I was warned for posting the thread anyway, it put me over the warning limit and I was banned for 15 days. Within a couple of hours of the ban, a different moderator repealed the warning and I was unbanned.

[Affection]

(Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
I told you homeboy,can't touch this
(Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
Yeah, that's how we livin' and ya know,
can't touch this
(Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
Look in my eyes man, can't touch this
(Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
You know let me bust the funky lyrics, you can’t touch this

The first person who talked about this site wasn't banned. A guy was banned on the lounge for reposting how to google the site after he was warned not to post a link here, as the site was being treated as advertisement on the lounge. Notice there's a thread on our forums about this place? Yeah, the posters aren't banned.

~~Affection

[Masters]

Just one question: Would you (or your company) allow Lovedrop or Matador to post at the MM forum?

Certainly, as long as they are not advertising. We have similar advertising policies to Fast Seduction, the RSD forums, etc. Though we wonder why they would start posting now, since neither of them posted - unless to respond to students’ complaints about their bootcamps - on the Forum between December 2005 and October 2006, when the Forum was asking for their participation and they were Mystery Method instructors.

The passwords on their accounts were first changed for security reasons when this drama began. Lovedrop did set up Mystery's forum and Lounge and then neglected them for 10+ months to now. I don't believe Mystery's Consent was ever required for any changes on the forum nor was it suggested it should be. It doesn't make sense to me to start up another website and forum and then mention something about a company you abandoned not asking for your permission. I also don't see why Savoy would give the Venusian Arts Mystery Method's student records. You are three instructors who quit a company to form your own. Of course everyone has to leave it to the legal system to decide on how this will ultimately work out.

Lovedrop and Matador, if you guys would like to post on the forums then simply ask for your passwords.

And I don't work for Savoy. I admin the forums for free, I help instruct for free, and I defend the company because I know the details and trust in Savoy's judgment.

I don't see a reason to ban me here as I neither present a security risk nor have I flamed anyone. I'll discuss anything within legal bounds with anyone if they'd like to civilly respond.

[Masters]

I posted a thread in the Offtopic section of themm board with venusianarts.com in the title. The name was blanked out automatically and I was warned for posting the thread anyway, it put me over the warning limit and I was banned for 15 days. Within a couple of hours of the ban, a different moderator repealed the warning and I was unbanned.

You were first banned by one of our mods who misunderstood an advertisement policy. He brought the policy up with our team and we had the thread unblocked and I unbanned you.

[Affection]

Yeah, the fake MM Lounge never uses censorship! ;)

http://www.projectmanhattan.com/affection/thelounge.jpg

http://www.projectmanhattan.com/affection/theforum.jpg

~~Affection

[Masters]

Yeah, the fake MM Lounge never uses censorship!

You were banned for advertising your site after you were warned by not only my self but other admins. How is that censorship?

Dynamic even warned us that you might try to advertise on the lounge.

Edit: Oh I forgot.. you were let back on but continued to bash the lounge and talk about how you were never going to post there again, so they reinstated your ban.
Edit 2: I quoted the wrong person lol, sorry

[Rich]

Masters,

The rules at MM are pretty strict. I lost 3 point for a post in the Lair sec about an event my lair was having.

Then I made a mis post by mistake and lost yet another point even when right after I posted it I sent a msg to the mods to delete it. Also I re-wrote the post "To any mod, please delete" then when I appealed the loss of a point I was told if I did not like it keep it up and I would be banned.

No dis respect on you of course.

Dashing.

[Affection]

BTW I don't blame Masters or f3d3r for being banned... I blame Nick. f3d3r is a douche bag, but that's another story. :)

~~Affection

[Affection]

I didn't bash the Lounge... I just said the people that ran it were assholes. The Lounge was ok. ;)

Edit: Oh I forgot.. you were let back on but continued to bash the lounge and talk about how you were never going to post there again, so they reinstated your ban.

~~Affection

[Masters]

Masters,

The rules at MM are pretty strict. I lost 3 point for a post in the Lair sec about an event my lair was having.

Then I made a mis post by mistake and lost yet another point even when right after I posted it I sent a msg to the mods to delete it. Also I re-wrote the post "To any mod, please delete" then when I appealed the loss of a point I was told if I did not like it keep it up and I would be banned.

No dis respect on you of course.

Dashing.

That sucks, we try to say though that if you disagree with mod action take it to an admin to fix. Then the whole team looks it over. We have a team because there are so many members and to keep the forums clean it takes more than three guys. Sometimes a mod may make a mistake. It happens because unfortionately we're human, but we do have a system to fix those mistakes. We have many many threads in our private forum of the entire team voting on specific issues members disagreed on. I hate that the big 3 are using the idea that our forums are too strict to sell their own site. We have and will continue to work with any member who has a problem with moderator actions.

[*** Mathew Stone ***]

the big 3

As long as you admit it, lol.

:)

[leslav]

As a relevant aside, I'd just like to throw in that fad3r is a complete, unmitigated douchebag.

We now take you back to your regularly scheduled bashing.

[Levo]

I think the problem here is that people seem to think that the MM forums are a community where like minded guys can freely exchange information on game, whatever that may be.

However it is actually a business tool for the MM Corp to promote their business, and anyone competeing with them is percieved by management as working against that and as something to be eliminated from their marketing. It is viewed by management as only a place for MM products discussion.

Now if youre still in the frame that it is a free and open community then naturally you will think its censorship. If your in management's frame it is just common sence.

[Odyssey]

sad to see that the masters of the great wisdom in the community keep on fighting over powers.

it became too big, commercial wars are being fight...

With great powers comes great responsability, according to what I see here, banning people from prevent speaking is quite childish, so some people can't deal with the power they'v been giving.

I'm not attacking anyone, I just hope when a broken ship sinks, there' one life boat carrying all the valuable things that would have been lost otherwise.

I joined this community 2 and a half years ago not to judge about wars, neither to see people fight, but to seek self improvement.

I'm thankfull to everybody in this community who somehow helped, only if it was just that one line in one single post... I don't care what company they were from. I had my goals set up back then, And now I'm here.

I think that we should live according to the spirit of our community, not by it's companies...

Once and for all,
Sarge on!
OD

[Vapor]

I think the problem here is that people seem to think that the MM forums are a community where like minded guys can freely exchange information on game, whatever that may be.

However it is actually a business tool for the MM Corp to promote their business, and anyone competeing with them is percieved by management as working against that and as something to be eliminated from their marketing. It is viewed by management as only a place for MM products discussion.

Now if youre still in the frame that it is a free and open community then naturally you will think its censorship. If your in management's frame it is just common sence.
It is both a place to share ideas and good business. We absolutely DO allow competitors to post and have their products and bootcamps disussed. Badboy, Brad P, Gambler, etc., have made posts. Many users and even Moderators, myself included, have very positively reviewed products and services offered by other companies that directly compete with MM. I explicitly told a member this week to look at Juggler's material over MM's because of his unusual situation. If your second sentence were true, I'd be in trouble.

That said, some people are just interested in free advertising, not free exchange of ideas. Someone who repackages material and passes it off as his own isn't getting free publicity of any type on our forum. We also don't allow the forum to be used as a blatant marketing tool to direct users to competing e-stores. If we did, it would (and did) get abused. I think this should be common sense for anybody, not just management.

There can be a fine line sometimes and we do make mistakes, but they're honest mistakes and we have a system in place for rectifying them.

[Sheriff]

Guys,

This thread is really negative :(

There's a pristine new forum here - let's show how we think a new forum should look by sharing ideas and encouragement, not arguing about how other forums looked.

Don't reply to this message, don't reply to this thread - go post something useful and inspiring on another thread, and let's let this thread fade out :) Please.

-sheriff

[ware_ru]

You were banned for advertising your site after you were warned by not only my self but other admins. How is that censorship?

Dynamic even warned us that you might try to advertise on the lounge.

Edit: Oh I forgot.. you were let back on but continued to bash the lounge and talk about how you were never going to post there again, so they reinstated your ban.

For the record, Masters quoted the wrong person. I don't have a website. I'm innocent.

[Vapor]

For the record, Masters quoted the wrong person. I don't have a website. I'm innocent.
I believe he was responding to another poster, or at least had another in mind. Your case was a matter of a Mod misinterpreting the rules, and it was reversed.

[Levo]

It is both a place to share ideas and good business. We absolutely DO allow competitors to post and have their products and bootcamps disussed. Badboy, Brad P, Gambler, etc., have made posts. Many users and even Moderators, myself included, have very positively reviewed products and services offered by other companies that directly compete with MM. I explicitly told a member this week to look at Juggler's material over MM's because of his unusual situation. If your second sentence were true, I'd be in trouble.

That said, some people are just interested in free advertising, not free exchange of ideas. Someone who repackages material and passes it off as his own isn't getting free publicity of any type on our forum. We also don't allow the forum to be used as a blatant marketing tool to direct users to competing e-stores. If we did, it would (and did) get abused. I think this should be common sense for anybody, not just management.

There can be a fine line sometimes and we do make mistakes, but they're honest mistakes and we have a system in place for rectifying them.

I can't speak to the forums, I honestly hardly read them much since I got Lounge access except to occasionally pop in and answer some people's questions. I do think its common sence to delete advertisements.

The problem on the Lounge is the people who got banned for advertising (or left due to terms) were some of the most value givving people around and I know alot of people were mad because the quality of the lounge dropped sharply, considering Masters IS right and the MM instructors hardly ever post or answer questions.

[Panache]

Hey, I was banned from the mystery's lounge for posting that I found this forum. I didn't trash Mysterymethod.com and I didn't sell venusianarts.com

All I had was a genuine interest that people be aware of the split, and where to find more information. I didn't trash anyone.

I'd like to have my account reinstated with mysterymethod.com because I met many cool people through the lounge, I have my posts there, and overall had a good experience.

I'd hate to loose that just because I posted that if you wanted to find xyz, it's available. No hard feelings to anyone, I'd just like to be let back in.

Sincerely,

Panache

PS: I was never warned. If I had been, I wouldn't have posted the second message. In the 2nd message, i simply posted how one could find this forum. Again no beef, just trying to clear up any misunderstandings.

[Sovereign]

Jesus, has this become a whine about the MM mods thread? If you don't like a decision over there, email them and work it out. If you don't like one of them, just tell them to their face (trust me, I have.) The MM forum has every right to stop someone from advertising on their site, it is their policy.

[strypes]

LOL! this is funny shite!

[sting]

I haven't been to the forum in awhile, so don't really know whats been going on with respect to VA there.
from my experience there - they're okay. people are free to talk about whatever they want to - other companies, systems etc. if talk about this group is being censored to an extent now (i'd have been surprised if it wasn't)... wel, thats natural. somebody said this was "a war". well, in times of war, these things happen.
if VA became the biggest company in the world and a some of their most major players left to create a rival company (regardless of why)... these presently "free speech" preaching people would likely do the same.
its human nature, neither good, nor bad.

MM forum has nothing to gain by encouraging VA talk. VA forum has nothing to lose by discouraging it.


In any case, there's more than enough goodies here, there and everywhere for everyone to feed off in the pursuit of self-improvement and greater success with women.
divorces... happen. but its a little silly to hold life long grudges against people you have good memories and good times with. I sincerely hope the principal parties can sit down in a few years, if not now, and have a friendly half an hour chat over a couple of drinks. Savoy seems like a guy with integrity and i have a genuine affection for Erik.


Cheers,
Sting

[Lyle Stone]

I think LD posted in another thread that drama is a waste of emotional energy... it definetly applies here as well.

This thread is tantamount to a snake eating it's own tail, you are better than this guys.

Focus on you, there are great minds on this board, who have been through a huge amount, and can impart massive ammounts of wisdom on you. But instead of seeking us out, you're wasting your time on this thread?

Focus on you guys, and let the drama pass by.

We teach about being unreactive, but in this and other threads, all I see is reactionism, so how much of this stuff are you really learning?

I'm not calling anyone out, nor do I have "beef" with anyone on this board.

If you apply this frame, your life will be a great deal more enjoyable.

-----
Those that do not like me fall into two seperate but equal catagories.

The stupid and the envious,

The stupid will like me in due time, the envious never.
-----

Now let's focus in adding value to this board.


Your friend,
Lyle Stone

[strypes]

No offense, you double 'mm'ed your "amounts" too, mate..

"Drama is life with the dull bits left out"-Hitchcock

I get your point, Lyle, chill a bit tho, it's a "community", for christ's sake! There's bound to be drama! Actually, besides the personal pros and cons to the individuals and companies with regards to the fall out (I'm sorry if some of you guys are emotionally drained because of this), besides the spice it adds to an otherwise mundane existence (if we can ever call pick up that), there is still good in this whole "squabble" (if we use that word). Personally, this adds to my social learning curve, which is one of the reasons why I joined the community. This is apart from sarging, but the PR moves as well as the frames each party is presenting towards the argument is a priceless 'real life' lesson. I'm learning tonnes about damage control, positive and negative reactions, how they are being framed... some of it is a classic out-of-the-classroom lesson.

Without disrespect,
I love you all,

Chill,
Strypes

[Lyle Stone]

"A witty saying proves nothing."
- Voltaire (1694-1778)

Your point is well taken Strypes, and I hope you do gain some sort of value from the frame control (or lack there of, in some more hilarious cases) displayed in these duels. But as someone who has some former and current friends involved, I might be expressing my frustration on a different level.

People's livelihoods are at steak here, long term friendships have been lost and moreover, the bitterness between some old enemies has grown. This saddens me as I got into this to help others, not to witness my friends manipulated, dragged down, or abused.

Stripes, this can be educational, so learn from it what you can, but I think my post was more on the level of pleading for others not to add to the drama, as there is stuff going on behind the scenes that you cannot imagine.

Your post was not offensive, so don't worry about that, and since the computer I'm using does not have word installed on it, my spelling is the only offensive thing contained in our interaction.

I wish you the best in all your future endeavors.

A very chill,
Lyle Stone

[Vincent Chase]

I'm not so sure that they hat the mods (Sov) I think they hate the establishment we have become.

=D

[strypes]

"A witty saying proves nothing."
- Voltaire (1694-1778)

Your point is well taken Strypes, and I hope you do gain some sort of value from the frame control (or lack there of, in some more hilarious cases) displayed in these duels. But as someone who has some former and current friends involved, I might be expressing my frustration on a different level.

People's livelihoods are at steak here, long term friendships have been lost and moreover, the bitterness between some old enemies has grown. This saddens me as I got into this to help others, not to witness my friends manipulated, dragged down, or abused.

Stripes, this can be educational, so learn from it what you can, but I think my post was more on the level of pleading for others not to add to the drama, as there is stuff going on behind the scenes that you cannot imagine.

Your post was not offensive, so don't worry about that, and since the computer I'm using does not have word installed on it, my spelling is the only offensive thing contained in our interaction.

I wish you the best in all your future endeavors.

A very chill,
Lyle Stone

Lyle,
I understand your frustrations, especially when it boils down to friendships. In similar situations, I probably will be acting in the same manner. Drama is nice when viewed from the outside. Generally, the point when fighting a court case is to strenghten one's case wherever and however, to buckle is to admit defeat. The prisoner's dilemma is crappy for any emotional ties.
As someone who isn't personally involved, all I can say is that too much is hidden behind politicking and the corporate banner, that none of us know what really goes on. Will the truth be exposed in a court of law? Who the hell knows anyway? We're still divided over OJ Simpson's innocence... Best of luck to everyone involved... and may someday we all be running pick up along the streets of the Champs Elysees on women who speak no english.

P.S. The drama has been great, though! Keep it up, folks! :D

Peace,
Strypes

[Yoda]

I think the anti-advertisment thing was taken a bit too far.

MM edited out the web address of this forum. I don't see how the forum itself could be advertisement. It's just another forum. An alternative.

They don't censor the web addresses of online stores in the "culture & lifestyle" section. They don't blank out the web addresses for stylelife nor the mASF forums... why this one?

I think there is a bit of censorship going on.

[Dwight44]

As a relevant aside, I'd just like to throw in that fad3r is a complete, unmitigated douchebag.

We now take you back to your regularly scheduled bashing.

haha, care to elaborate?? :)

[azazels_wolf]

This is a really old thread regarding issues that should have been resolved a long time ago, and does not contribute to our cultivation of constructive topics of discussion, nor it is presently relevant. Therefore, I'm moving it into Off-topic for now.

Dwight, please don't encourage personal bashing or drama here. There is no need to start unnecessary conflict.