Bodybuilding

[Matador]

Bodybuilding

When I was around 21, I got into bodybuilding. I played football, basketball, martial arts, track, & pole-vaulting in high-school. I grew up in Texas and being big and muscular increased your social value immensely (as most high schools I assume).

When I turned 21, I started to lift for aesthetic purposes, not just for athletic performance. At my peak I managed to get to 245 and 3.8% body fat benching 450lbs for 4-5 reps.

In short, I looked like a real amateur bodybuilder. Anybody who knows me from a couple of years ago can attest to that.

Here is my experience of various dynamics during my journey.

ATTENTION FROM WOMEN

This result was two-fold. I am around 6’2”. When I hit around 205 at 5% body fat, I noticed a night and day difference with women throwing IOIs at me. When I started to increase to 220lbs at 6% I noticed it started to go down. When I hit 245lbs @ 6-7% body fat I noticed it go down a lot. Some girls would still throw IOIs, but most were scared of me. In addition, some simply gave me deliberate IODs.

To put 205@5% into perspective: It would look like Brad Pitt in Fight Club or Troy.

At 220lbs@6%, it would look The Rock in Scorpion King.

At 245lbs@6-7% body fat, it would look freakish and like the guys on the cover of Muscle and Fitness and maybe FLEX (the guys on the cover of FLEX are pros and still are at another level above).

This was back before I knew anything about the community. In my mind:

More Muscle = More Social Value = More Women.

My conclusion: The Brad Pitt Fight Club look works the best for pua goals.

RESPECT FROM MEN

QUICK NOTE: Bodybuilding and fighting are two different art forms. Weight training-not bodybuilding-helps the latter. Do not think that just because you are big you can fuck with anyone. There are some scary cats out there. Avoid fights if possible is my best advice. It is not conducive to our survival goals.

Pros and Cons here: On one hand, you almost get instant respect from men. Men simply do not want to fuck with you. From bouncers, businessmen, athletes, musicians…etc. They all start throwing submission IOIs to let you know you’ve got them in this area. Some want to align with you, some want to distance themselves from you, and some outright resent you and talk shit behind your back.

Another pattern I observed. Rich guys will want to be seen with you (when you’re really big). They will want you to roll in their entourage. They will buy you drinks, throw women on you, and introduce you as their friend.

Cool guys, who you want to be like, will give you a level of respect instantly into their social circle, provided you are not a socially unintelligent person. In other words, they will give you access to their world, provided you don’t do anything stupid.

People in general will give you compliance easier. It’s the small things you notice in everyday situations from waiters, people standing in line...etc.

One funny story, I ran a red light at about 60mph, simply because I thought I could make in the yellow on pacific coast highway. I was in a national park and I noticed the park ranger slow down as I sped up. I was going to try to make the light and he was going wait for the next one. I ran it and he turned his sirens on and pulled me over. Why would I do such a thing you may ask? Well, I didn’t think these guys handled traffic violations. I thought they monitored park activity such as fires, vandalism...etc., things like that. In short, it was stupid, but that’s what my rationalization was at the time. As he is pulling me over, he asks me if I have been drinking which I said no and then asked me to step out of the car. After I did, he took one look at me and asked me, “Why shouldn’t I give you a ticket.” I told him, “that was a completely stupid thing I did and it won’t happen again.” He let me go! Some may say that was completely random. However, I disagree. Nothing is completely random, nothing is an accident. Even if people themselves are not aware of what they are doing, they’re emotions are reacting nevertheless. In this instance, his emotions & logic decided to give me a pass, if I simply gave him this one little compliance test. He didn’t want a cute logical answer, but wanted an emotional one. Notice how I never answered the question that he asked? Why would he do this in the first place? I believe, by the intimidation factor of this huge guy being presented to him on a one-on-one basis on the side of the road.

Women will want to show you off. Hold your arm like they are so proud to be there. Even though it all breaks down to value, there is nothing like seeing the love and adulation in a young girl’s face as she is looking at you and you know it is real.

CONFIDENCE

At gladiator dimensions, you’re CONFIDENCE is SUPER-HUMAN. I am not saying it is entirely real…just describing how you FEEL. You feel entitled to any girl in the venue. You FEEL entitled to TAKE what you WANT. You feel like you can slam dunk a basketball (which I could barely do)…you FEEL like you can accomplish anything after enduring the discipline and pain it takes to get there. YOU FEEL FUCKING AWESOME. Almost anything you wear looks good, you feel like a Ferrari on a road filled with Cadillacs. You feel peaceful. You feel clean. You feel energetic. You feel younger. You feel like you’re not aging. You feel DANGEROUS. Your feel POWERFUL…physically & mentally. Remember, don’t go into the gym get up to 225lb on bench with a gut and say you don’t feel these things. This is how I felt when my body was at a level where someone would pay me to photograph it.

HOW TO GET GOOD

A rough but effective game plan to get your body to where you want it to be is a follows:

First, outsource the knowledge. A lot of you guys are busy on your wealth and relationship nodes of your life. You don’t need to immerse yourself in the world of bodybuilding. Here is the solution and eventually you will acquire the knowledge yourself.

Find a trainer that LOOKS like a bodybuilder from a reputable GYM. You may not want to look like him, but he will have the knowledge and drive to take you to where you want to go because he has done it himself. They may be exceptions to the rule; however, I don’t want to waste any time finding out. Also, you have to believe in your trainer as a teacher/role model and he needs to earn that respect as he is yelling at you to grunt out another rep on the leg press as you have a white-hot burn going through your legs.

Second, you must hit your training, diet, supplementation, and rest in unison. If anyone of those areas is left undone, you will not get the “Perfect Look”. There are some major mistakes I see a lot of guys do. The will either:

1) Over train
2) Not know how to train, but think they do after reading a few pages of muscle and fitness.
3) Train and then go eat a pizza afterwards and wonder why their ab wall doesn’t show after the million crunches leg raises that they’ve done.
4) Not rest enough…I knew one guy do did fifteen sets of 8 on bench press as his first chest exercise! WTF!
5) I saw this same guy repping with the same weight for about 2 years!

The list could go on an on. In short, seek out those you have the knowledge and motivation that you need TODAY and who have proven successful at the task you are about to perform.

Here is a rough summary:

1) Seek out a QUALIFIED TRAINER based on my text above (this is an important step).
2) Follow his instructions exactly…believe in him even if you don’t see results at first. (That’s why step #1 is important, he needs to inspire, motivate, and earn your respect).
3) Believe that this body (the archetype I found the best for our PUA goals) is something worthy and worth fighting for. You have to want it. I illustrated my experience, so you’d know it is a huge DHV prop to your avatar.


CONCLUSION

For RELATIONSHIP purposes…I think it is an excellent sport that does provide the ROI you are looking for.

For HEALTH purposes…I think it is an excellent sport that does provide the ROI you are looking for.

For WEALTH purposes…I think it is an excellent sport that does provide the ROI you are looking for.

In this regard, remember I mentioned that High-Value guys will want to align with you. I can’t tell you how many different wealth-building alignments are spawned from guys wanting to be your friend and throwing value your way.


All-in-all the BODYBUILDING activity permeates through multiple areas of your life that are consistent with PUA goals. I high recommend it for the reasons in this post.

[Good]

Good post. I have been competitive in bdybuilding when I was in my early 20's and still exercise daily. Not as big as I was back then but still muscular enough to get me noticed. Huge return on investment.

[Dynamism]

I started a year ago and I love it. That's what got me more confidence, which also got me into PUA.

It's addicting. All these physical and psychological self-improvement plans accomplish so much in terms of self-esteem.

I do have a sticking-point, I can't gain enough weight. I'm not that big in the first place.
I know to eat every three-hours, and sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't. I think it's all self-discipline.

But body-building and PU are both my passions.

[d-man]

Great post. I actually JUST joined 24 hour fitness this week and plan to get my feet wet, because I literally know nothing.

[Matador]

to do this right, make sure you GET A TRAINER WHO LOOKS LIKE A BODYBUILDER.

some guys who are new, jump in too fast, jump in too slow, or don't know what they are doing, get discouraged and quit.

if you can pull this off (and you will) and achieve that look, you will feel you have a new lease on life...combined with tight game...you're lethal.

remember, this whole this is one more prop for your A2, but a damn good one.

[Rocco]

Ok to do all this, but I think if you don't have the right genetics and you didn't start training before the age of 26 or so, you have almost no chance to get the "Brad Pitt Fight Club" look. (I hope I'm wrong :D )

Anyway what counts is the effort and not the goal.

[Matador]

fair,...this is a logical conclusion (story/law) that you've come to and if prevents you from taking action...then there is nothing much else i can say...however, if I can find one example that contradicts this...then would you entertain the possibility that it might be an theory and not a law...or even a refuted theory...if that is the case then a cause for inaction would not exist and you could give it a shot.

in my personal experience, i have seen 50+ old guys walking around with six packs...don't get me wrong, it takes a lot of hard work and the road is harder, but still possible.

[hyper]

Madador, you said you did martial arts. Did you feel that you got more benefits from that or going to the gym? I mean knowing that you can kick anyone's ass anytime must feel pretty dam fucking good.

[Matador]

bodybuilding for our goals (and I mean more than just picking up chicks)...it is more visual, compliments your avatar, and subcommunicates so many characterstics about yourself that are good for PU (if you'll notice..all the RSD boys have seem to undergone, some bodybuilding overhaul...maybe it's a new company policy or something:)

fighting is a good survial skillset if you're under attack...I actually hate it, but learnt it to protect myself growing up as I got into alot of fights. You can't bring that into the public gathering or do high kicks in the air to convey personality. Well, I guess technically you can, but will look like a JACKASS.

fyi, "kicking anyone's ass" is a dangerous mind-set and one I definetly do not endorse...there are some genuine killers that I've met that scare the shit out of me! Like a 20yr kid who almost broke my arm in 30 seconds on the jiu-jitsu mat, had I tapped out a couple seconds later...thank god it was practice and not real! I'll avoid a fight like the plague if I can for legal, health, and karmic reasons.

[CPeters]

fair,...this is a logical conclusion (story/law) that you've come to and if prevents you from taking action...then there is nothing much else i can say...however, if I can find one example that contradicts this...then would you entertain the possibility that it might be an theory and not a law...or even a refuted theory...if that is the case then a cause for inaction would not exist and you could give it a shot.

in my personal experience, i have seen 50+ old guys walking around with six packs...don't get me wrong, it takes a lot of hard work and the road is harder, but still possible.

I don't rate six packs, I had one for five years or so, doing 1500 situps a week at peak, it doesn't impress women because generally they can't see it except at the swimming pool. Pecks they can see if you can get the weight up a ton.

I've been doing bridging for six months or so, it is a great joy to me to see all those subsidary stomach muscles Rocky has coming out. I really spend little time doing them so its quite surprising, the magic pill of stomach exercises, IMO.

It's quite easy to spend just a little bit more on your diet, and eat healthier versions of the stuff you already eat, 1% fat milk, super lean beef, etc, all helps gradually reduce the body fat, painlessly.

[Solus]

Can you guys gimme some advice? At the moment I am nowhere near the shape I'd like to be.

I'm 6'2", 18% body fat and 189 pounds. My BMI is about my age; 25.

What's the best way for me to get in better shape?

Cardio work out? Resistance training?

My first priority is to get rid of the excess fat. About two weeks ago I joined a gym and am now doing a 45 min cardio workout 4/5 times a week. I'm just wondering if it might be a better idea to find a resistance training plan. Would that help me get rid of the fat better than the cardio work out by putting my bodies energies into building muscle?

[TheCoolerKing]

Ya I feel that I first have to lose weight to get anywhere.

And I have been running for about 30 min each day but then had to stop cause of school starting to become more stressful.

I stopped doing bench press and went with free weights, using a technique called dynamic tension with low weight. Which really did a good job toning my forearms.
Then I would do some of the machine weights. Then run for 30 which was really on an eliptical machine.
Do you recommend those? It seemed like it was doing a lot of work for me.

I didnt notice any fucking results from this.
But I think my problem is the shitty campus food here at College.



I should really start back working out...

[DrSwift]

absolutely agreed.

I was training last year and was really starting to see results coming on. It was great. Required a lot of control of my diet, high protein intake, optimum training. It was all going great.

Then (and here's the warning for folks):

Around a big set of examinations I stopped training completely.

Might not seem too bad but as you increase in size you start increasing your BMR. Your calorific intake will actually increase (despite the fact that you're not eating a hell of a lot of bad foods it takes a lot of protein to maintain high weight).

Anyway I really wasn't *that* far into my training when I stopped. Enough that I could see the results clearly and that I was starting to get the 'do you work out' question a lot. The results of stopping were astounding........Muscle dissappered over a couple of months and my body fat crept up.

--------------------

Anyway I've just started again - arms are nicely sore with the good old DOMS now.

You're also absolutely right about finding someone with the knowlege. My wing Mist is a professional personal training - and a top knotch one at that - he came over and gave me pointers. It was ASTOUNDING the difference he made to my training.

The difference was simply night and day.

Give me a few months and I'll be on my way to being built once more ;)

Swift.

[TheCoolerKing]

I guess this thread did inspire me.

I just came back from working out and eating as healthy as I could.

I did some free weights, then the machine weights-both arms and legs.
In a way I tired to max out on the machines. But stopping at the end of a set and holding out the bar or whatever, then doing a few quick reps without going all the back to start position.
That made it burn.

Then I went on a eliptical for 30 min. Burned about 430 calories and got my heart rate up to about 180....according to the machines computer.

Then I went to the dining hall, which at the time I went didnt have much of a selection. Only things open was the salad bar and the deil. I wasnt too sure on getting a sandwich since I usually pile shit on it so I started off with a huge ass salad instead. Put ham, green peppers, some kind of cheese but its good, chic peas, onions with the salad then topped it off with italian dressing.
Then I had a small bowl of granola with about a cup of skim milk.


I grabbed two apples for later but I dont know if I should eat them because it was found that the futrose in apples really makes you feel more hungry.

But ya, I feel nutrion is my biggest problem pertaining to this. Cause of the dining halls really, a lot of the food that supposed to be healthy really isnt because of the way they cook it.

[DarkPrince]

for ABS

I just started using this vid... and well :) try it for a week.. And tell me how YOU like it first hand...I like the results im getting...
but keep in mind... in ANY work out.. Its not How many you do, or how much weight you do... If you can do 3... do 3, but do it RIGHT!!

at first I couldnt do any push ups... but i started and soon, I started doing them to Resistance Bands...

anyways try the video, i think its quite and VERY well done..

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/393890/power_90_workout/


Good luck brothers
-Prince

[obie]

The 4 best ab exercises EVER for functional ab strength (not just for show).

1) Inhale 75%. Flex your butthole like you are stopping yourself from taking a shit and pinch your buttcheeks together. Flex your abs, and the whole midsection HARD like you are trying to squeeze out a massive shit. Once you pressurize the abs slowly let the air out to a 5-10 count. At the end release the tension and exhale the remaining air forcefully.

2) Keep your feet planted and twist your body around in a cricle. Relax your arms. They should swing in an arc. When they wrap around your body reverse direction. Any twisting motion is great for the abs.

3) Ab rollouts. Get a power wheel and do rollouts or pikes.

4) Planks. Get into pushups position and lower your forearms to the ground. Keeping your body STRAIGHT, hold this position for time. 1 minute is good. 5 minutes is great. Ten minutes is SICK! (Pinching the buttcheeks really helps)

Bridging is also a very good full body exercise.

I was fucking MAJORLY into working out a while ago, then I stopped, principally because I got bored. Since becoming a vegetarian a couple months ago I've gotten FAT. I don't like it.

Here I publicly declare my intention to get back into KICKASS shape.

[Sexual Chocolate]

Really great post M. Really helpful on the deminishing returns based on size.

When I bought one of Tony Robbins programs it had a video where he talked about and demonstrated being able to gain up to 25 pounds of muscle within 10 weeks. The method also allows you to decrease the time you spend in the gym working out. I've been getting back in the gym and revisiting the method.

It's called "Static Contraction" and there's a really good book out by the creators Peter Sisco & John R. Little that has clinical studies and proof the method works.

Book Description
"This is truly an incredible discovery that could cause physiology books to be rewritten." -- Ironman Magazine

"A thorough, productive weight workout in less than three minutes? You better believe it! Larger muscles. Stronger techniques. Fewer injuries. What more do you want?" -- Martial Arts Training Magazine

From bodybuilding and fitness pioneers Peter Sisco and John R. Little comes this revolutionary guide to building maximum muscle size and strength--using workouts that last as little as two minutes! Based on the authors' groundbreaking new research, Static Contraction Training reveals how a program consisting of only six 15 to 30second exercises per workout will build muscle size and strength more efficiently than any other method. Learn firsthand the concepts that are revolutionizing bodybuilding, including:
- Why training more than once a week--or longer than five minutes--can compromise your progress
- How to stimulate maximum muscle mass
- Nutritional fact vs. fiction
- Gaining muscle without fat
- Your weak link and how to overcome it in your next workout
- The "law" that guarantees you huge muscle growth Whether you are a weekend athlete, beginning bodybuilder, or champion, the information in this book will forever change the way you view bodybuilding and strength training exercise.

Check it out on yahoo if interested:
http://www.amazon.com/Static-Contraction-Training-Peter-Sisco/dp/0809229072/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-1356816-8855140?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1172985174&sr=8-1

[Matador]

To everyone asking for specific advice on training programs...here is my suggestion...seek out someone in your life...a trainer or friend who is looks like you want to look and follow thier advice...the road consists of knowledge and motivation and is a long-term strategy.

[helo]

Pros and Cons here: On one hand, you almost get instant respect from men. Men simply do not want to fuck with you. From bouncers, businessmen, athletes, musicians…etc. They all start throwing submission IOIs to let you know you’ve got them in this area. Some want to align with you, some want to distance themselves from you, and some outright resent you and talk shit behind your back.

Another pattern I observed. Rich guys will want to be seen with you (when you’re really big). They will want you to roll in their entourage. They will buy you drinks, throw women on you, and introduce you as their friend.

Cool guys, who you want to be like, will give you a level of respect instantly into their social circle, provided you are not a socially unintelligent person. In other words, they will give you access to their world, provided you don’t do anything stupid.

People in general will give you compliance easier. It’s the small things you notice in everyday situations from waiters, people standing in line...etc.


Great thread...and I can vouch from personal experience that getting a trainer is the way to go. I've been lifting for years and making little progress...then I got a trainer and realized a bunch of stuff I was doing wrong, not only with the weights but my diet.

Matador, I'm curious about how height factors in here...do you think the "respect you get from men" would occur for a guy who is average height, like 5'8", even if he got down to 5% body fat and up to a respectable weight (say 170lbs)? My impression has been height is more of a factor here (in terms of getting other guys to supplicate to you) than build or body fat, assuming you aren't super-skinny. To phrase another way, if a guy is 5'8"...is time better spent developing personality-based game or getting ripped?

Helo

[Matador]

First, game is more important than any of this. I am suggesting bodybuilding as a sport to supplement your game and serve other areas of your life.

Second, height does play a factor, but at 5' 8", provided your big and ripped will look impressive...combined with the right clothing that shows off and does not look try hard...if can be a big advantage.

[Levo]

I took weight training as a class this semester to hopefully bulk up and lose some body fat but so far the guys has been terrible, canceling class all the time and having us play ultimate frizbee instead of sticking to our workout schedule.

But other than that the big thing holding me back has been food. I LOVE it. And I cant stand that hungry feeling when youve eaten your correct ammount of calorie intake for the day but you still want to eat a whale.

Oh well. Just more shit to overcome. Being slightly overweight is a DLV and fucking annoying. I'll get there.

[TomSawyer]

Matador, what is your opinion on Body For Life by Bill Phillips?

I have been using his program since late August, and have noticed some difference in my body, but would like to speed up the results. Any way to do this or are there no short cuts on this path?

thanks

-TomSawyer

[Matador]

once again...a good trainer who looks the part can show you the way.

[Adamm]

I was going to PM this question to the OP, but I think it's of general interest. The question is a bit sensitive, but I think it needs to be asked: in your experience, do most individuals who attain the type of physique you describe: extremely ripped/very low body fat/ridiculous mass do so in a "natural" manner? Or, does this typically, or sometimes, require illegal supplements?

By way of comparison:
6'2" and 180+ sounds about right for an average/lean physique, and 200 lbs. or so would indicate a muscular physique as the OP says. Adding 40 additional pounds of lean mass in addition sounds like (because it is) a big jump up. For example, most power forwards in the NBA are around 6' 8" and 245. Elite professional wrestlers, who are absolutely gigantic, are often in the 6' 240 lb. range, for purposes of comparison.

Also, might it be possible to obtain similar compliance and respect through other means? For example, I happen to know people who are of average size but who have extremely loud and deep voices. I've literally seen such people intimidate others just by ordering a soda at a foodstand. No kidding. And they are not deliberately trying to gain compliance or social proof; they are just speaking in a normal tone of voice and people get out of their way.


Adamm

Bodybuilding
ATTENTION FROM WOMEN

This result was two-fold. I am around 6’2”. When I hit around 205 at 5% body fat, I noticed a night and day difference with women throwing IOIs at me. When I started to increase to 220lbs at 6% I noticed it started to go down. When I hit 245lbs @ 6-7% body fat I noticed it go down a lot. Some girls would still throw IOIs, but most were scared of me. In addition, some simply gave me deliberate IODs.

[Matador]

Good question,

I will say that it is very hard to get past amateur and stay away from drugs.

I will say that you can get below and up to amateur with or, and if genetically gifted, without supplements from health food stores.

But these are just word games aren't they? If a drug is something that is defined as artificial and chemically alter's your body, then aren't vitamins drugs...isn't creatine a drug...isn't hydroxycut (fat burner) a drug...isn't even altering your diet an attempt to alter your body's chemical composition a drug? All these remedies are legal, but philosophically, these and illegal drugs are doing the same thing. I would suggest doing whatever is safe for your body. That is up to you to educate yourself on and decide which calculated risks you are willing to take.

For your height 199-205 at around 6% is a VERY realistic drug-free goal and you will look awesome.

Bodybuilding is not the solution for pua or life...it is simply one more tool in your arsenal that works well...there are other tools...if you choose to develop other tools...more power to you.

[Taiji]

hey matador
just out of curiosity
can you post a picture of yourself in the ideal body state?

[DarkPrince]

So i been doing abs workouts for the past 3 days... and well.. my lower Abdomin is still not showing.. (this is based on body fat),

As for the top part of my abs when I sit down, breathe out, or lay back Its noticible the line down the middle of the abs(yet not the actual muscle).. which goes down about half way...than there is the the lower part...

which isnt really bad.. its just annoying that half of it is gettign inshape and the other half isnt...I do work out both of the muscles, and have cut back tremendously on fatty foods and carbs, and have gone down to Water insted of drinking juice(most had sugar).

so. any suggestions of exercises of getting more workout on the lower part of the abdomain? the ones I am currently doing is : Leg rises, Adv. Leg rise, and sitting on my butt and lifting both legs up and moving them 10 times clock wise and than 10 times counter. I have heard that the whole "thrust" technique would be good for the lower part but I dont feel anything doing it.

Any suggestions or tips from you guys would be appriciated.

thanks
-Prince

p.s. I could take a pic and link it to see my situation...


P.s.s http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v733/DarkPrince101/Photo-0094.jpg thats what i got so far.. I wanna tone it out.. but :(

[Thor]

hey matador
just out of curiosity
can you post a picture of yourself in the ideal body state?

Does this scare anyone else?

Just fucking with you man. Sort of......

[Taiji]

lol i meant that in a totally non-homosexual "pictures illustrate the point better and this is what worked for him" way

[Thor]

lol i meant that in a totally non-homosexual "pictures illustrate the point better and this is what worked for him" way

Lol its cool bro I know what you meant.

[Satan]

I like this post because I started off weight training 5 years ago and it's changed my life. When I used to fake tan up and wear tight tshirts I'd have nights where girls would AI me constantly, I'd feel like a rockstar.

I reccomend,

-researching like crazy (www.bodybuilding.com)
-focus on diet and sups (whey, nlarge2, creatine)
-buy some cheap weights and train at home for a few weeks
-go to a gym and seek guidance
-then maybe in the future invest in a good home gym. I'd have given up a long time ago if my weights weren't close.

Also take regular photos (1 a week), nothings more motovating than seeing a change. I post a weekly pic on Myspace so if I've been slacking the world can see it.

S*

[Adamm]

Come on, you post on a seduction forum implying that someone here is gay? Wait! I thought this was the Savoy thread!

But seriously, all Matador is saying is that women find physically fit men attractive. Go to an extreme, however, and then all sorts of stereotypes come into play: the dumb jock, cro magnon man, etc. The typical middle class and upper middle class hottie favors, as Matador has pointed out, a lean, athletic build.


Adamm

[Luxberry]

First - great thread. A lot of people just "don't get this." I'm tall as well(6'5) and I noticed my best weight was when I was playing college football - I was around 255 at about 10-12% bodyfat, I literally turned the heads of every person in the room when I would walk through the doors. At 220 and 6% bodyfat, this wasn't the case, yet I still got a ton of looks, just not the same ones where girls would literally run up to me, stand so close their titties would be on my chest and look into my eyes wanting me to hit on them(true story). I've let myself "go" the last 2 years but I'm getting back into it and feeling great.

For anyone interested in program design, etc... the best site I have ever found is - www.t-nation.com

They post articles daily on nutrition, techniques, etc... best programs IMO are by Christian Thibadeu(look under authors on the left) and the best nutrition systems are by John Berardi.

Believe me when I say, t-nation is the ONLY website you need to accomplish your goals.

With that said I do have one question for Matador - how do you balance a body building lifestyle with going out sarging? Is it possible because your job(I'm assuming VA is your only job) allows you to sleep in, etc..? Are you keeping protein shakes/grilled chicken in your car for as soon as the bar closes? Venue changing to Dennys or something and just eating omelette's? These have been my hardest problems with getting back into shape - balancing the PU time with it. I notice if I eat around 9pm, by 12:30-1:00am I am STARVING. I can't even think/open, etc...

[Nutz]

Heh, the only drawback to being big and/or strong is you're the first person everyone thinks of when its time to move.

[Thor]

I just started working out about a week ago and I have to say, the confidence you get from it is amazing. There is no reason that everyone shouldnt be working out.

[Mehow]

btw, for those of you who haven't seen matador recently he is now positivley huge. he is a bodybuilding matster, just 4 months ago he got started again seriously and now he looks bad ass. I was on the same diet and schedule for a while and it was putting the huge on me too ... but then i got injured and am now recovering so i can get back to it.

I love bodybuilding though. Love it - its my favorite thing! I miss it a ton.

The nice body definitley tweaks your results a bit towards the positive. Matador and Mystery are tied for closes last I counted at the house. Although Matador was doing that before he got started on his schedule.

I think the biggest reason to bodybuild is for innner game and health and the fact that at some point in your life you might have to carry something.

-m

[CPeters]

Hey matador, I have bits of thin purple skin zigging down from my armpits to my biceps, which I think are stretch marks, what should I be taking to strengthen my skin?

[ax_tor]

johnberardi.com is what you need

[Luxberry]

With that said I do have one question for Matador - how do you balance a body building lifestyle with going out sarging? Is it possible because your job(I'm assuming VA is your only job) allows you to sleep in, etc..? Are you keeping protein shakes/grilled chicken in your car for as soon as the bar closes? Venue changing to Dennys or something and just eating omelette's? These have been my hardest problems with getting back into shape - balancing the PU time with it. I notice if I eat around 9pm, by 12:30-1:00am I am STARVING. I can't even think/open, etc...

I'm sure he's out fucking more girls than me, but if any TRUE brothers of the iron could tell me how to handle themselves when the craving comes in the middle of a set!

[Superfreak]

There is no cut off or age range, someone said 26 WTH,

Take a look at Joe Weider when he represented Arnold He was a fat tub of shit, at age 60 he had a body most 18 year olds wish they had that kinda muscle.

I used to BB but now I like boxing, it keeps you in shape and does not get as routine as BB does.

[Matador]

Hi Luxberry,

I am assuming that you are not able to schedule your going out and sarging time in between your meals?...I started eating at 8:00am in the morning and finished with my last meal after I got home, not matter what time it was...a protien shake with no carbs...map your day with a 3 hour sarge block and eight hours sleep with work time and I think you'll see you have enough hours in the day...my meals are simple...ground turkey meat and rice with multivitamin pack with protwhey/oatmeal shakes for in between...very simple, easy-to-make meals that I can take in my backpack slingshot no matter where i go...pace your meals every 2.5-3 hours apart...map it out on an excel spreadsheet...you will be able to fit everything in...my goals these days is not to be so huge, so it is even easier...my protein and caloric intake does not need to be that high, thus my meal count is even lower.

[hugscot]

I would like to disspell some misinformation in this thread. I don't speak about something that I don't know first hand about, which it seems some people do. Steroids and human growth hormone if abused cause problems like with any medication. They are prescribed for people with hormone deficiencies or low testosterone all the time. They can be used in a safe manner without most the sides people and the media tend to harp on about. Steroids will aggrievate existing problems like balding for example. Steroids don't make people go into fits of rage unless you were already like that before. Steroids will shrink the testicles because you are getting your hormones from an outside source so the body shuts down it's own production. Testicle size does come back once stopped and there are also things you can take to stop it from happening if it bothers you. But for general purposes of getting in shape you don't need that stuff just lots of good foods.

So that being said you get that ripped look by diet and lots of cardio not weightlifting. Lifting weights will help you save muscle when dieting and build it when in a caloric excess. That is how almost ever bodybuilder that I know does it. I like the low carb diets myself cause they seem to work the best combined with low intensity cardio everyday.

[StuckInC2]

I like the low carb diets myself cause they seem to work the best combined with low intensity cardio everyday.

this is a good point, its insane how many people go low carb, hop on the treadmill for an hour and just bust their ass, which is horrible; you go into a catabolic state. it causes you to lose a shitload of size and its not all fat you're losing

[hugscot]

this is a good point, its insane how many people go low carb, hop on the treadmill for an hour and just bust their ass, which is horrible; you go into a catabolic state. it causes you to lose a shitload of size and its not all fat you're losing

Yeah, man absolutely right. I have done it all kinds of ways and that method seems to work best. That low intensity cardio is key. Can be a little boring but you will lose so much less muscle doing it that way if you are low carbing. I dropped from 250 to 203 using that method.

[mathiasthegreat]

I have been lofting for almost 12 years but have only learned to do it right in the last 2. I'm 5 11' 206 Lbs at 10% My genetics are such that i have big arms and huge shoulders and a so so chest.

But boy oh boy does it make a difference...lol

I noticed the Amog problem all but goes away. Your only worry is some giant beast whom is going to show this smaller muscle guy who is the sheriff in town..lol

Anyway, just walking threw the club people part ways...if you bump into someone they say sorry...lol

I use it to my advantage as Im the nice muscular guy...meaning alot of muscular guys will carry the "im buff so I am too cool for you" routine untill it posses of the AFC's...but if your nice to them they respect you and DHV you by posturing themselves diminutively and submissively.

Women as long as the OP said your not a huge bodybuilder will gravatate towards you...squeeze your arm and or lift your shirt up to see the goods..

Having a great body is a peacock in itself but its so much more...

[malibu808]

Been lifting on and off for years, more consistantly in the last few. It did not get me lean, but I did put on muscle and look better for sure.

Alot of guys think genetics, or routine, or diet etc..but what most dont talk about other things that put on weight and definately affect your overall health and fitness levels:
'
A; hormones; A good number of overwieght people have screwed up hormones, low production, etc. Working out improves this for sure, but not enough for a good number of people to lose much weight. The most common problem is functional hypo-thyroid, meaning your blood test shows your in the normal range,(usually the lower end of normal) but this may not be enough for YOU specifically. The better test is axillary tempature, by putting the thermostat under your arm first thing in the morning for about 5 minutes. If your at 97.3-7 thats pretty close, but if your at 97.0 or less your basal metabolic rate is functionally low most likely. Read Barne's book. "Hypothyroid, the unsuspecting illness" GOogle it, its the best book Ever on thyroid.

SO what can you do about it. Nutrition is a big thing for starters. Functional medicine is the other. Check out www.jeffbland.com or www.metagenics.com for information on specific stuff. ITs all prescribed by docs and they have a list of docs all overthe country that do functional medicine stuff.

FOr guys, testosterone levels can be low too. Chemicals, xrays, environmental stuff, call can cause damage and lower production, which will make it harder to lose fat and get cut among other things. As some of you young dudes get older, you WILL notice this shit....again, you can do what you can do exercise wise, nutrition wise, or as others have said, get external hormones to help you which have their own side effects.

Its probably best to start with nutrition etc and get a blood test to check your levels if your having problems.( you have to ensure they order all the hormones, and its fasting 12 hours, and they check blood sugar levels, testosterone, etc.)

B Toxicity: "the solution to pollution is dilution". AKA water retention. This is a very big deal for alot of people, more than you think. Toxicity slows down your metabolism, clogs up your elimination systems, especially the liver, and affects your energy, ability to metabolise fat, etc etc. Same site to find out about this. Best stuff is Ultraclear and Ultraclear plus...get this from a functional medicine doc-MD, DC, ETC. Ive done this stuff, you will feel incredible well, and its easy to do. You will also find that by drinking more water, you will retain less water....see below



C. Nutritional deficiencies: Taking "one a day " vitamins or some other cheap crap is not going to get you good nutrition. Best over the counter is TWIN LABS , and Natures Best. From Docs, Metagenics or Standard Process are about two of the best. The challenge is the food supply is so crappy, and for some targeted nutrition will get the body working better and better in areas of deficiency and problems- biggest area for most- adrenal function.
(stress)

D. Sleep Deprivation- There is actually studies that show that 8 hours and 15 minutes of sleep per day is ideal. Without it over time cortisol levels rise, and fat and water retention rise.

E. Water intake- Chronic dehydration of tissues in the body will affect metabolism( slow it which equals weight gain), and if you think this doesn't apply to you, think again. check out www.watercure.com This MD did a bunch of studies on how so many "average healthy people" are chronicially dehydrated.

The argument is made all the time to lose weight its calories expended b calories taken it, which is true, but only partially true, and based on a simplistic look at the world and the person. The fact is that each person is unique, and while some say its genetics, its training, its X, when you really get into maximizing gains in health, fitness, wieght lifting, and looks, there are a bunch of factors that play into it, some of the major ones here, that can be roadblocks for some. Muscle cells grow best with hydration, nutrition, rest, etc.

THe last couple of points: it can take up to 96 hours for muscle tissue to fully recover from a heavy lifting workout,especially if you are going to failure.

Steroids and replacement hormones: Used WAY WAY WAY more than guys admit or talk about. If you are comparing yourself to others, and not getting the same gains, this is another variable that may not be known to you, and is responsible for the look you are seeing.

Hope this is helpful.

This post only my personal opinion and in no way should this be taken as medical advice or treatment or diagnosis. Consult your health care specialists before taking any vitamins, etc.

[11:11]

Matador what kind of supplements have you used besides protein shakes and creatine? I have you ever used Bulgarian Tribulus? Its a natural herb found in bulgaria and china. Its all natural and it naturally increases testosterone 40% and sex drive 70%. They sell it at GNC for around 20 bucks a bottle. They even sell the tea in some stores. Its probably the best product I found because its all natural and it helps with body building and pickup because it increases testosterone and sex drive. Great stuff

[Hengman]

He could just buy Pronabolin.

It's more convenient to have 300% of testerone in one pill instead of 40% a pill or whatever it is for $20.00.

And yohimbe is a good way to increase sex drive.

[11:11]

To much side effects come along with Pronabolin. The main one I hear is increase in acne. It's better to go with something more natural in my opinion.

[Elias]

Keep in mind testosterone levels too high for a period then blam natural body production levels decrease (again think shrinkage) and hard to say what you will get used to.

If you wanna mess with your biological computer just remember: moderation and find some time to read.

[11:11]

Tribulus increases natural test levels but keeps it in the normal range....look up research on it. so no shrinkage because it makes your body produce more which means your testicles will GROW. If you use a pro hormone or steroid then your balls shrink becuase it will be replacing your testosterone...

[beek]

Keep in mind testosterone levels too high for a period then blam natural body production levels decrease (again think shrinkage) and hard to say what you will get used to.

If you wanna mess with your biological computer just remember: moderation and find some time to read.

agreed. i apologize for not reading the entire thread, but this is one reason why supplements say 12 weeks "on-cycle" (taking whatever it may be) max, then cycle off (stop taking it) for 4 weeks.

when you have a lot more external sources of something, your body wont produce it as much naturally (testosterone). i am not an expert, but there is a wealth of information on the internet. pm me for a couple forum recommendations if interested.

prohormones are one of my most favorite types supplements now. ive been having absolutely awesome badass dreams on one of them :D

[flashgordon]

This my sound funny but it ain't really.

I started training when I was about 18 for 3 years. The second year my brother gave me this big thick book written by Arnold. I did his work out for 6 months. And I didn't gain much muscle and only 1 stone. I did become very strong but if you looked at me you'd say im skinny. My brother eight years older them me and massive couldn't beat me at a arm wrestle.

After the 3 years I asked my brother how come I wasn't as big as him even though I did way way more, (we talking 4hours a day 5 days a week) he said it was because i did more reps with less weight.

I think for anyone starting weight training, its a gd idea to find what body shape you want, and see a professional trainer.

I did think about getting back into training, getting that Tyler D body 6 pack but most of my wing start moaning on about how skinny I am and not to lose body weight (im currently 10-11stone). They think im turning anorexic. WTF?

Also stay away from steroids I know a lot of people who take them, one was 17 stone and now because hes been off them for a couple years hes gone back to his normal weight of 11stone and looks really bad. (also gone a bit mad, skitso)

[Hammer]

Actually, steroids are a necessary tool for any bodybuilder.(notice i said bodybuilder, not average gym user)
When used properly(cycle length and amounts, PCT[if you dont know what pct is you shouldnt be cycling] diet, and proper workout routine) steroids will produce the results that are desired. Of course, steroids have their side effects, like many other drugs, but thoes can be conteracted by other drugs during the cycle. People often believe the misconception of "roid rage". This is just a myth. The fact is, while steroids do increase agressiveness, this doesnt mean that they will make you kill your wife or go on a massive shooting spree becasue someone spilled their drink in your car. It is all about choices, and if you chose to shoot someone, that is becasue you chose to, not becasue of the steroids.
Other side effects are real, such as acne, hair growth, hair loss, and something called "back pumps" when using oral anabolics.
So if anyone decides to utilise steroids, remember, be educated, be smart, and know your limits.

p.s.
anyone new to anabolics may think that oral (pills) are safer than injections. they go to orals such as, the most popular, d-bol. Oral anabolics are even more toxic to the liver and gains will be lost soon after post cycle therapy. (pct) While orals are used, they are used in 4-6 week cycles at the begenning of an injection cycle of 12 weeks. again be educated.

[azazels_wolf]

Just a standard disclaimer here that we do not endorse steroids since they are illegal in many places and are believed to have many dangerous and potentially deadly side-effects.

Check this out for more information:
http://espn.go.com/special/s/drugsandsports/steroids.html

[Feynman]

My balls are already small in proportion to my twig. I don't need them any smaller. Workout and eat, eat, eat. Protein shakes for everyone.

P.S. Make sure to do your ab workouts even though they sometimes suck. I think I somehow tore a muscle in my upper-right abdomen after doing 700lb leg presses. (I actually don't know how it happened, but it hurts when I move, laugh or breathe and I'm considering dipping into the percocet reserve).

[Hammer]

Sorry for the somewhat controversial post. Steroids ARE illegal, but many dont know the benifits. They are a prescription drug. They are used in aids patients, and something many may not know, are used in men over 35 quite often...legally.

Just for everyone to know, I am in the gym scene and have seen many steroid users. The users under 21 years old are realy making it hard on themselves in the long run, but the professional bodybuilders I know actually have a doctor who guides them through the cycles.(wouldnt want to be one of thoes doctors...i bet they could face jailtime for that)

Now, I dont encourage or endorse the use of anabolic steroids. I just like to educate people with truth rather than what you hear on the news and what happened to the 16 year old football player who abused them and killed himself. Steroids, like any other drug, are illegal, unless specified by a doctor.

[Splendo]

This thread has inspired me to get back into the gym.

Great info on the ROI of bodybuilding.

Thanks for the post, Matador.

[Kevin Feng]

Cool post,

I've been working out consistently the past four years and I'm glad you could put it into context

[TKDLover79]

Since I"m 5'7 & around 146 I'm wondering if the Ladies would see the muscles

[Tenure]

Totally agree with everything Matador said. When I started lifting, I had an immediate and drastic boost in self-confidence, increased discipline in every area of my life, and physically I felt unstoppable. It destroys anxiety, helps you cognitively and consciously ( you think faster and more clearly). Without even trying your body language becomes relaxed, more confident and more alpha. I always get more IOIs the more I workout, even if I haven't yet noticably changed much physically. Your testosterone increases and you literally become more manly(drinking increases estrogen and does the opposite). I've also wondered if you release more sex pheromones, because girls always seem to know when I'm working out.


RECOMMEND: Buy Arnold's Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding. Read it.
RECOMMEND: Buy Pumping Iron. Watch it.
RECOMMEND: Don't waste your money on trainers. If you can't motivate yourself then don't bother. In the end you'll feel more proud of yourself. Unless you're trying to be a pro, or look like an amateur pro like Matador, or if you can't read, you don't need a trainer. Save your money for gym memberships and supplements, etc. All you need is a gym partner to help push you. If you want killer triceps, or whatever, but you're not sure how, find a guy in the gym who has triceps and ASK him how he got them. They will almost always love sharing what they know with others who are interested in bodybuilding.

[MidKnightSecs]

I am but 5'7" tall and when I bulked up and tore down last I ended up 218 Lbs@ 8% body fat. I think I intimidated more people than not as I was way too big for my height. I decided it was too much for my frame and I re tooled myself. I got down to 200 @ 10% and found it still a bit too big for my height. I've been wondering were I should be at 5'7" tall in order to maintain that balance between muscular/fit and body builder. I don't really feel comfortable under 200 Lbs for some reason, but I am willing to try new things. Any advice?

[ceu]

To put 205@5% into perspective: It would look like Brad Pitt in Fight Club or Troy.


as per several internet articles Brad Pitt was only 160Lb during Fight Club.

[Never Shaken]

A better example for 6'2" 205@5% would probably be GSP (5'10", ~200 lbs, 7.7%), although that is a bit more muscular and has a bit more fat. Zyzz might be a better example (6'1" ~205, low body fat), but I'm not sure exactly what his stats were, and he had a bit of a roid gut.

6'2" 220 lbs 6% Christian Bale cira Batman Begins (6'2", 220 lbs, not sure about body fat %)

6'2" 245lbs@6-7% IDK, maybe a bit bigger version of Mike Komisarek? (although Komisarek's legs are huge)

Edit: Arnold Schwarzenegger was 6'2" 250 lbs when he competed, and he was Mr. Olympia 7 times. (albeit, that was essentially pre-roids, now you've gotta REALLY roid and look like Ronnie Coleman if you want to be Mr. Olympia)

[MidKnightSecs]

I got it. I decided to not care what others think. I also realized that I can cover anything I want with clothing and custom fit clothes are all I can wear and look good in so it actually works out well that i'm 5'7" 215lbs @ 10%.
Seems the clothes makes it work.