The Venusian Arts Q&A Sessions Vol1: Matador from The Venusian Arts (Finished)

[Matador]

Hello Gentelmen,

I'm Matador, aka Lefty, aka Lefty Guns, aka Left Two Guns, aka Horse Cock...in case you don't know me...my profile can be found here:

http://www.venusianarts.com/AboutUs.aspx

I'll be happy to answer any questions you have on game, strategy, sticking points...etc. So let's shoot.

I am planning on having this thread open for about 1 week.

[Limelight]

Hey Matador,

lately I'm trying to improve my AMOGing skills. I engage in large mixed sets with obviously alpha males in them and try to steal the set from them.

I can amog this guys to a certain point but from there on the AMOGs get aggressive very quickly and I have to either eject or face a serious fight.

Am I miscalibrating something or ist it normal? When my wings are AMOGing, it seems like they never encounter these things(although they're not able to say what I'm doing wrong)

[relics]

DUde if the AMOGS hit you, they know that they're not gettin laid tonight.

Now for my questions, I got three.

If you're a good looking guy, do you think you get shit tested more frequently/earlier as a result of the target seeing if you're more than meets the eye?

Why do FBs suddenly not want to be FBs anymore?

and

If you're going from A2 to A3 and you're trying to get to C1 but you're getting IODs instead of IOIs and you haven't given SOIs do you want to use a DHV to blast through LMR or DLV to get past through her ASD...assuming she's an SHB11( I really did want to know:P)

[Limelight]

If you're going from A2 to A3 and you're trying to get to C1 but you're getting IODs instead of IOIs and you haven't given SOIs do you want to use a DHV to blast through LMR or DLV to get past through her ASD...assuming she's an SHB11( I really did want to know:P)

You won't get an answer for this question even Style didn't know it and Mystery didn't know it too...:D

[relics]

Nahh he said he'd leave it for another time.

This is the other time.

[Dynamism]

I'm in a club sarging right, it's loud. The MM is fine communication. How the heck do I communicate with girls the most efficient way possible when there's all these distractions?

I swear, if it was quieter I'd have much more success, not to say that I didn't last night. :)

[relics]

Amen to that. Usually when I get into clubs people are already grinding/making out/dry sex on the couch and the music is menacingly trying to over-power my vocal chords.

I can't wait till he answers these questions :)

[Matador]

Hey Matador,

lately I'm trying to improve my AMOGing skills. I engage in large mixed sets with obviously alpha males in them and try to steal the set from them.

I can amog this guys to a certain point but from there on the AMOGs get aggressive very quickly and I have to either eject or face a serious fight.

Am I miscalibrating something or ist it normal? When my wings are AMOGing, it seems like they never encounter these things(although they're not able to say what I'm doing wrong)

how do you know when you're winning and doing it right?

you should see a slight smile or giggle on the girls faces at the guy who is being amogged.

in addition, you should feel the helplessness he feels as you're tooling him because you have set the frame that he is a social violater if he escalates it to fighting.

btw, you're first option is to befriend.

[Matador]

DUde if the AMOGS hit you, they know that they're not gettin laid tonight.

Now for my questions, I got three.


If you're a good looking guy, do you think you get shit tested more frequently/earlier as a result of the target seeing if you're more than meets the eye?


Makes logical sense, but I have not come to that conclusion...fyi, shit testing is an IOI...she wouldn't bother unless she thought your were a candidate. Shit testing is testing for strength.


Why do FBs suddenly not want to be FBs anymore?


there is a value equilibrium in all interactions...one party falls short, the other loses investment to be there. If you're FB is leaving you.

1) Has she lost attraction
2) She wants to allocate her resources onto a new man who will provide the S value to her gauranteed.
3) She has lost the value in the arrangement...

most likely, #2 if it was sudden...she sees a better R value investment.


If you're going from A2 to A3 and you're trying to get to C1 but you're getting IODs instead of IOIs and you haven't given SOIs do you want to use a DHV to blast through LMR or DLV to get past through her ASD...assuming she's an SHB11( I really did want to know:P)

IOD back for an IOD, then immediately DHV...repeat cycle until you see IOI...throw out CT for strong IOI...depending on result you know where to go in the diagram on ch6. in the VAH

[Matador]

I'm in a club sarging right, it's loud. The MM is fine communication. How the heck do I communicate with girls the most efficient way possible when there's all these distractions?

I swear, if it was quieter I'd have much more success, not to say that I didn't last night. :)

Amp your energy levels...be ULTRA playful and HIGH enery with a slight hint of ADD (multiple threading purposes)...accentuate you're subcommunications...you're roll-offs, you're push aways, you're kino...if find this character allows me to subcommunicate more when my verbal is cut-off or retarded...and yes...it is more annoying to game in loud venues, but not impossible.

It is okay to be ULTRA lound to the level of a drill sargent and break normal proximity conventions as typically noted in Day Game rules...the environment is acceptable for that and you will be "allowed" to do this.

PROJECTION, ULTRA PLAYFUL DEMEANOR, ULTRA PLAYFUL KINO, WIDLEY CHARISMATIC, GREGARIOUS PERSONALITY, THEATERICAL

these are the characterics I would say my personality has in these situations.

[relics]

When should Kino really start?

At A3
Or ASAP?

I kino the people that are near and around me in set-target or not.

But I find that when I meet people through my social circle or any other situation where I get some 1on1 with the girl without anyone CBing, I tend to want to kino on A3 as my frame is of neutrality of the person I'm being introduced to. No one special I should pay any special attention to. But then as soon as I get IOIs, I start BHRR and on the reel I kino and release I backturn. I have never tried to kino straight off the bat, but which would you recommend?

And BHRR in mind, I have a second question.

I Bait, hook, and do a medium reel(Hey that's cool/Hey I like that) but I don't release. I only ever do the textbook BHRR where the reel is a massive IOI "OMG I LOVE that" and the release is a physical and verbal IOD "I can't even talk to you now*backturn*" at the beggining or the end of A3 because it doesn't really fit into my whole scheme of M2F. It tends to get..chunky..and tedious....repetitive.
Ie.
IOI OMG I can't talk to you now
*fluff*
IOI Oh too bad you're not my type
*fluff*
IOI Ughh you're bad news for me
*fluff*
IOI We'll never get along

I can use it at the start:If she re-initiations I'm IN and I can continue qualification with medium-ish reels
or
at the end:After I build up the compliance threshold of her qualifying herself to me I textbook BHRR-If she re initiates I'm IN and I can transition into comfort

My question is, that will my version of BHr (emphasis on the non-capitalized reel and the missing R for release) work with the textbook BHRR?
And if it does when is the best time to do the textbook BHRR? At the start or at the end of A3.

[Matador]

When should Kino really start?
At A3
Or ASAP?


Moxie and I are working with Kino opener that involves kissing the girl (not on the lips) after watching a natural in south beach who blew our minds...I honestly thought he was going to get arrested or punched...it is not field-tested to my satisfication yet, so i am not officially endorsing it...but to answer your question..kino as early as possible, most typically at the beginning of A2...the begining stages light...then escalate compliance as feedback permits.


But I find that when I meet people through my social circle or any other situation where I get some 1on1 with the girl without anyone CBing, I tend to want to kino on A3 as my frame is of neutrality of the person I'm being introduced to. No one special I should pay any special attention to. But then as soon as I get IOIs, I start BHRR and on the reel I kino and release I backturn. I have never tried to kino straight off the bat, but which would you recommend?


Go Kino right at the beginning of A2 if you're isolated and escalate hard...remember, you will trigger ASD frame if her freinds are watching.

If the latter, you can still kino...make it light and playful and escalate into later stages in isolate...assumption: kiss is the upper end in that environment

Why always backturn on the release...you push off and say, "alright, get off of me!", in a playful way and calibrate with a smile if necessary...make sure you fire the smile after you sense an IOD coming...it is between the feeling of the IOD and the actual manifestation of it in some action the girl takes...if you smile before or on the IOI return (meaning she accepted you kino compliance test) you may come off apologetic for kino test.


I Bait, hook, and do a medium reel(Hey that's cool/Hey I like that) but I don't release. I only ever do the textbook BHRR where the reel is a massive IOI "OMG I LOVE that" and the release is a physical and verbal IOD "I can't even talk to you now*backturn*" at the beggining or the end of A3 because it doesn't really fit into my whole scheme of M2F. It tends to get..chunky..and tedious....repetitive.


A3 is not as mechanical as hoop after hoop after hoop and can be more dynamic than book describes.

Out latest information on A3 will be publish in the new book that Mystery and Lovedrop are writing.

In A3 there are:
1) Basic hoops
2) Genuine Interest with Verbal Compliances tests requesting more value and more IOI pinging
3) Auto hoops
4) More important than logical IOI's is the belief that your emotional circuitry is responding to attributes that she posseses other than her sexuality

BASIC HOOPS

Basic hoops are verbal compliance tests like, “what nationality are you” and vary in intensity (intensity meaning the emotional investment it would require the girl to have to bother jumping throught it)…on a scale of 1 to 10…this first hoop would be light…a higher level hoop would be, “What do have going for you more than you’re looks”.

You can disperse these hoops throughout your A3 phase and fill in the spacing with conversational rapport, dhv material (with primary attraction switches built in), stories that elicit humor (the set should be fun…Mystery has a combination of intrigue game, but there is definetly a laugh track in his sets)…when you sense that the IOI level via various indicators are growing stronger…throw out a higher-level hoop and watch the compliance result…you should know what to do next according to the model.

Some people stack these back-to-back and comes off like a job interview…it can be more natural than this.

GENUINE INTEREST WITH VERBAL COMPLIANCES TESTS REQUESTING MORE VALUE AND MORE IOI PINGING.

Sometimes the girl will want to DHV to you in A3. It is an attempt on her part to demonstrate value to you. All you have to do is vibe with her and be genuinely interested in her conversation. An IOI ping her with smiles and verbal hoops, otherwise know as questions.

For Example:
HER: “So I was out with my friend sally the other day and she want to go to shopping on 5th and Collins…we had lunch as this place that served the best stone crabs”
ME: “Aren’t stone crabs on south beach the shit!”[Verbal Compliance Test] [Smile and appropriately enthused]. Did you go to XYZ restaurant? [Verbal Compliance Test]
HER: Yes! I eat there all the time![Passed through hoop…I am looking for emotional investment here…not the mere fact she said yes]
ME: Nice.[IOI ping..reward]
ME: Every time I hire a new person, I take him/her to lunch on their first day to that restaurant[DHV]

I will vibe at this point until I FEEL it is time to ask for a higher level Compliance Test (Verbal or Physical). The act of vibing itself is an IOI and when done right both parties will derive value from it. A lot of times people come off fake is when there are trying to vibe with you and give you IOI pings when you aren’t emotional invested in giving value via you’re conversational threads.

When to throw IOD’s during vibing process? I find it best to throw IOD’s when they give you a value offering that isn’t up to par and simply as for more value.

Example:
HER: I think the clothes are urban outfitters are the best on south beach.
ME: What! You’re off you’re rocker woman…have you ever gone to XYZ store on 8th and Washington.

Another interesting tactic. When recating stories…be fascinating…be passionate about what you are talking about. Even if it trivial…be these things when telling the story…the story isn’t the primary focus…it is the way you are saying it…the emotions you are making her feel through your demeanor that you are a type of man who is fascinated and passionate about things in this world…she is calculating your emotional circuitry here.

AUTO HOOPS

What are auto hoops. Auto hoops are hoops that she’s qualified for even before you set up a test. For example.

Me: “You’re shiny!”
Her: “What do you mean?”
Me: “You have a symphony of facial expression that make you very animated!”
Me: “Part of me is just enjoying listening to you talk and part of me is worried what is going to come out next!”

Why did I pick this auto hoop for this girl. This was a girl that acted like Marisa Tomei from “My Cousin Vinny”…I picked this one for her…it may have come of disingenuous for another girl if it didn’t apply. It is my belief that people like to see themselves a certain way…they prize themselves on their feeling of importance [Dale Carnegie]…they have calculated their own S&R value based on certain criteria…if you can ping a person on this without any assistance from them…it provides an immense amount of validation and their brains will be rewarded with good emotions and associate those emotions with you. Take bodybuilders for example, more times than not I can immediately befriend and neutralize big guys by saying,

“wholly shit…I haven’t see guns like that since Vietnam!”

They will usually laugh and ask, “what’s your name bro?”…I can work the set after that.

These guys [without understanding why because of lack of game knowledge] equate muscle with social value and thus sexual access…that is their way of trying to climb the ladder…and you know what…it works.

Same way with a girl, ping on what she is trying to be…this takes a little time and studying of each girl…sometimes you miss…when you hit…it is like gold.

I once walked up to a girl…no opener just, “those glasses make you look incredibly sexy…I think I’m drawn to you…I’m not 100% sure why…I just felt it.”

No before you say, WTF? Complimenting a girl right off the bat? That doesn’t work!

You’re right, however, in this case…here is a girl who is a south beach bombshell with all the goods who wore dorky fashion glasses? She was making a statement to the world…she was saying…”Look at me, I am so hot, I can handicap myself and still get away with it”…she was peacocking!” Nobody had bothered to zero in on that. Just the regular typical bullshit she is used to. BTW, I was running my fingers through her hair a week later:)

MORE IMPORTANT THAN LOGICAL IOI'S IS THE BELIEF THAT YOUR EMOTIONAL CIRCUITRY IS RESPONDING TO ATTRIBUTES THAT SHE POSSESES OTHER THAN HER SEXUALITY.

More important than the logical IOI pings you give her…here is the purpose of A3: She has to FEEL that YOUR EMOTIONAL CIRCUITY is responding to her in a positive due to unique attributes about her as a human being…not as a piece of meat…not as a pure sexual object. She has a rough estimate of her value…she has to feel she’s earned you via the various gambits I discussed about…I like talking in terms of principles…I believe actions are serve the principle…know the underlying principles at play here in A3 and you will be more dynamic in-field…more adaptable to you’re environment.



When should Kino really start?
My question is, that will my version of BHr (emphasis on the non-capitalized reel and the missing R for release) work with the textbook BHRR? And if it does when is the best time to do the textbook BHRR? At the start or at the end of A3.


I think I understand you're question...the intermediate release (IOD) you are talking about is a mechanism at you're disposal to calibrate the emotional reward you are giving to keep the A3 process more genuine & believeable and to trigger a push/pull effect. Also, it is consistent with cat string theory and is synonimous with pull the string away and having her chase.

[JimSmith]

what do you do about girls that you see in passing, or dont have much time to run game, such as talking to them on the elavator. Unfortunately many beautiful women are out and about at times where you don't have much time to game them. Sometimes at a party, her friends might decide to leave or go to another party, and therefore you quick number close.

1. How do you handle girls where u dont have much time to game them, so u might get a quick # close. Usually it's not solid and its likely to be a flake, so how would you counter that?

2. When girls have ADD at a loud crazy party, and they end up getting pulled away or distracted, do you just re-approach them later after social proofing?

3. Sometimes i realized negging a girl or doing a takeaway/IOD is effective to gain more compliance/interest from a hot girl. For example, a really hot girl could be polite and you have good conversations with, but is good at not letting guys escalate further. Do you ever punish/neg a girl even when she's giving some IOI's to talk to you?

4. You mentioned above about vibing with girls and pinging them with IOI's. What if the conversation happens to fizzle, what's your favorite life saver in the interaction. For example, people could stack opinion openers, or use a random gimmick for "shits and giggles"

5. Whats your favorite way to qualify a girl besides the beauty is common thread. A lot of times the hot girl isnt THAT beautiful or has lower social value because she might be a geek/nerd. I know Sinn's favorite to use is, "Who are you? And why are u special"

6. I found out alot of the times when i do misinterpretation or try to frame the girl hitting on me (in a funny way) the girl might giggle and laugh a bit but then she actually STOPS giving IOI's. For example i'll be talking to a hottie for 3-4 minutes, and she might touch me or my necklace, and if i say "hey hey hands off" :), she actually might smile a bit but does STOP giving as much IOI's. I think it has to do with her being self-conscious that i brought attention to the fact that she showed interest and she doenst want to look easy.

7. Alot of times i social proof at a party and have fun, and the girls like to facebook me right away. Especially since i didnt # close most of them, but had fun with them. Is there anyway i could take it from there cause usually facebook hasnt worked well for me to make anything happen.

8. What do you think about street sarging because i do alot of it but havent found a very consistent or solid way to get results from it. Especially street sarging at night.

9. What's your favorite opener, and your favorite C1 routine/gambit.

10. What's a good way to open a girl when she's giving subtle AI's after u social proofed in front of her. I know the standard way is to just A3 and ask what she has goin for her besides her looks, but im in college and see girls give me AI in class, so i wanted a more casual way of starting off the convo. Maybe asking "Are you shy?"

11. What are good neg openers? I've seen many beautiful women by themselves but look like they have a cocky attitude sheild.

[sei313]

How do you deal with "alphas" who speak the language of the girls they're with, whereas you don't?

E.g. if you are not Chinese - you step up to a completely Chinese group, open the "alpha" guys in English (but loud enough for the group to hear) but the guys blow you out by speaking Chinese with the girls, which you can't understand.

If the guys are not alpha I try to befriend them. But the situation I gave above is tricky and COMMON in heavily multicultural/multi-lingual areas - I've been out night after night trying to find solutions.

[Stan]

Hey Matador,

I have recently discovered the PUA community and am attempting to devour all literature on and around the subject but have come up across a problem.

1. I have no problem opening sets and talking to the girls per se, however i am not entirely sure how to DHV other than the few that i have read in the game, ie magic (which can't do), best friend test, u shaped c shaped smile, cube etc.

2. It has always been a problem for me in the past that i can talk to girls but always get the feeling that i am talking like i am a friend and can't work up any physical attraction or connection, i am aware that i need to escalate kino, but what else should i do?

Thanks

[Englishbob]

My sticking points
Ive been out in the field for a few weeks now and it seems that i have a few sticking points.
i have so far not kiss closed or number closed a girl - i think its to do with the fact that i dont have enough attraction to build up to the point that i can get the girl to give me a number. or i ask for a number and she will say no or will make an excuse.
regarding the kiss closes, etc - will these things come around once i have the attraction part down or is there someting that i can do to help in this part?

i have done around 50-60 approaches. i mainly work on the opener and A2.
my A3 i know is crap - i just sound like some guy shooting interview questions at them.

so how do i do this:
any ideas?

how do i increase a girls attraction to me i do cocky and funny and can stay in set for a while - around 20 mins - but i wont get the number for some reason.
How do i get my A3 running better.

[Dynamism]

Ok, might as well ask this here also.

How do you handle girls who do not jump through your hoops, but who also seem to like the encounter?

Example: Things like "you're not my type," or "we'll never get along" do not bother her, but also the interesting thing is that she seems to enjoy the encounter and she's laughing and having fun.

It's different if a girl is more aloof and not jumping through hoops, so these are not the same thing.

[conquistador]

Hey Matador, quick question:

If my target is displaying higher value before I do (when I would consider begining A2), should I just proceed with A3 and then throw in some DHVs during comfort or - ignore her, DHV and then qualify?

[khenak]

hey,

sorry to bombard you with another question, but i am having a lot of trouble to get pass this sticking point. Whats the best way to get pass kino anxiety. I always just try to push them off me and stuff, but other than that I don't know how else to kino escalate. Got any pointers in how to practice or what to do after pushing them off?

[Jack Tripper]

Hey Matador,

Thanks for taking questions...hope you get a chance to get to mine.

Here goes: My sticking point is the ex boyfriend.

I saw alot of information on BF destroyers but none on the Ex-BF destroyers. All good info but I feel its missing an important element: the BF becoming the Ex-boyfriend.

So after you destroyed the BF and she leaves him, what happens next?

I met and hooked up with two girls that had BF's at the time (without me knowing). I ran tight game and things went extremely well, that both girls broke things off with their BF just for me.

Now what I noticed is that within the first 1-2 months of the breakup, the Ex would try to win these girls back by repeatedly calling and begging them for another chance. So what this does is create a HUGE guilt trip for these girls that they eventually go back to their EX-BF. They both agree that I have higher value, make them happier, and want to be with me, but that they feel sorry for leaving their EX-BF and eventually end up going back to their EX. This happend twice with two different girls and has me really puzzled.

Do you have any insight on this? Did i display too much high value or not enough value? And what about the Ex-Bf's neediness? Neediness is suppossed to be unattractive and not work right?

What would you suggest to permanently destroy a relationship?

[Matador]

2. When girls have ADD at a loud crazy party, and they end up getting pulled away or distracted, do you just re-approach them later after social proofing?


you can most definetly re-engage even without social proofing...better with of course...just re-engage and game...or create some live demonstrations involving pre-selection, leader-of-men.



3. Sometimes i realized negging a girl or doing a takeaway/IOD is effective to gain more compliance/interest from a hot girl. For example, a really hot girl could be polite and you have good conversations with, but is good at not letting guys escalate further. Do you ever punish/neg a girl even when she's giving some IOI's to talk to you?


if I get opened by a girl, I will slight token neg with a 3 stooges eye poke as soon as I can...it is light...it is playful...more times than not it cracks a smile.


4. You mentioned above about vibing with girls and pinging them with IOI's. What if the conversation happens to fizzle, what's your favorite life saver in the interaction. For example, people could stack opinion openers, or use a random gimmick for "shits and giggles"


throw in a buying temperature routing or dhv routine...you can also throw a monkey wrench in the machinery and induce a light fight or tension with a arguement and then release...I was hanging out with style the other day and he got into a philosophical debate with a chick...i almost thought they were really going to fight...he then found some way to A3 her by some point she brought up...you could feel the tension escalate and when released...it was like a 1965 love in.


5. Whats your favorite way to qualify a girl besides the beauty is common thread. A lot of times the hot girl isnt THAT beautiful or has lower social value because she might be a geek/nerd. I know Sinn's favorite to use is, "Who are you? And why are u special"


right, I don't have a favorite way...in my A3 these days, I try to find something unique and special about each girl...believe me, some girls are hard to qualify...it is not so much my criteria, but it is her feeling of importance or image that I adopt as my criteria...get it?...also read my post on A3 in this earlier in this thread.


6. I found out alot of the times when i do misinterpretation or try to frame the girl hitting on me (in a funny way) the girl might giggle and laugh a bit but then she actually STOPS giving IOI's. For example i'll be talking to a hottie for 3-4 minutes, and she might touch me or my necklace, and if i say "hey hey hands off" :), she actually might smile a bit but does STOP giving as much IOI's. I think it has to do with her being self-conscious that i brought attention to the fact that she showed interest and she doenst want to look easy.


the purpose of those types negs is to get IOI's...why do you continue doing them...after negging and dhving at the beginning of A1,A2...you can drop that and reserve punishment for defiance moves on her part.


7. Alot of times i social proof at a party and have fun, and the girls like to facebook me right away. Especially since i didnt # close most of them, but had fun with them. Is there anyway i could take it from there cause usually facebook hasnt worked well for me to make anything happen.


??


8. What do you think about street sarging because i do alot of it but havent found a very consistent or solid way to get results from it. Especially street sarging at night.


use day game rules for this...day game is not whether the sun is out or not, but has to do with proximity...expect a post on day game shortly.


9. What's your favorite opener, and your favorite C1 routine/gambit.


don't have a favorite, but have about 5 i use for various situations...favorite C1 routine is the cube or singing...


10. What's a good way to open a girl when she's giving subtle AI's after u social proofed in front of her. I know the standard way is to just A3 and ask what she has goin for her besides her looks, but im in college and see girls give me AI in class, so i wanted a more casual way of starting off the convo. Maybe asking "Are you shy?"


you can open with just about anything...the opener is not that important anyway...it is important in so far as the first impression she forms in a millisecond via your subcommunications of whether your hitting on her or being weird, but the actual logical content is not that important...you can cut yourself off and stack to a2 almost immediately.


11. What are good neg openers? I've seen many beautiful women by themselves but look like they have a cocky attitude sheild.
[/QUOTE]

Do you know why you suck?
You're very little?

ask around for these two...i'm sure someone will know it.

[Matador]

How do you deal with "alphas" who speak the language of the girls they're with, whereas you don't?

E.g. if you are not Chinese - you step up to a completely Chinese group, open the "alpha" guys in English (but loud enough for the group to hear) but the guys blow you out by speaking Chinese with the girls, which you can't understand.

If the guys are not alpha I try to befriend them. But the situation I gave above is tricky and COMMON in heavily multicultural/multi-lingual areas - I've been out night after night trying to find solutions.

if the girls can't understand english, I work with what I have...it is not very logical or the ideal circumstance...i just pretend like they understand me and keep talking and make sure I smile...I am ultra playful and start kinoing hard and playfully...with roll-offs, releases, and bodyrocking.

if i can explain the vibe, the frame is almost as if, I am being considerate to help them understand my english rather than being apologetic for not understanding theirs...secondly, when done right, they should have this look on their face as if they don't know entirely what's going on, but they know it's fun and they wish they could be completely part of it and spoke my language...i'll have to admit, later in the set with comfort, the language barrier posses and issue...if you get to comfort, you're A3 has to be all feeling and subcommunication...it's even hard to explain, but you've seen examples of two people who speak different languages fall in love...if I could say anthing, make yourself fall in love with in A3...i must say I have only taken this type of set all the way once and her english was broken at that...most times it is too much damn work...i would move on to the next.

[Matador]

Hey Matador,

I have recently discovered the PUA community and am attempting to devour all literature on and around the subject but have come up across a problem.


1. I have no problem opening sets and talking to the girls per se, however i am not entirely sure how to DHV other than the few that i have read in the game, ie magic (which can't do), best friend test, u shaped c shaped smile, cube etc.


ok...you need to find a wing who does and they can show you...not to sell you on anything, but you really need to take a bootcamp...they game is so much more than dhv or routines.


2. It has always been a problem for me in the past that i can talk to girls but always get the feeling that i am talking like i am a friend and can't work up any physical attraction or connection, i am aware that i need to escalate kino, but what else should i do?


1) hit your attraction switches as outline the VAH...buying temperature game creates a feeling inside the girl that is here today and gone the next minute...go for dhv routines that hit attraction swtiches.

2) build a kino compliance ladder and climb the ladder properly

these are elaborate topics covered in the book as well as bootcamp

Thanks[/QUOTE]

[Matador]

My sticking points
Ive been out in the field for a few weeks now and it seems that i have a few sticking points.
i have so far not kiss closed or number closed a girl - i think its to do with the fact that i dont have enough attraction to build up to the point that i can get the girl to give me a number. or i ask for a number and she will say no or will make an excuse.
regarding the kiss closes, etc - will these things come around once i have the attraction part down or is there someting that i can do to help in this part?

i have done around 50-60 approaches. i mainly work on the opener and A2.
my A3 i know is crap - i just sound like some guy shooting interview questions at them.

so how do i do this:
any ideas?


solid game model...go for kiss and number close in comfort...that being said, you need to practice all the way from A1-C1 (inclusive)...A3 is REALLY important my friend and for some reason, is the most completely underestimated part of the game...read my reply dealing with A3 earlier in this post.


how do i increase a girls attraction to me i do cocky and funny and can stay in set for a while - around 20 mins - but i wont get the number for some reason.
How do i get my A3 running better.

whoa...C&F for 20 minutes...okay, you need to read the VAH handbook again..or get the Myster Method book on amazon...C&F is frame used in A2 and can be dropped later on...after 20 minutes, you should be in comfort...as for A3...same as before, you can read the mystery method book on amazon

http://www.venusianarts.com/mmbook

will take you there.

[Matador]

Ok, might as well ask this here also.

How do you handle girls who do not jump through your hoops, but who also seem to like the encounter?

Example: Things like "you're not my type," or "we'll never get along" do not bother her, but also the interesting thing is that she seems to enjoy the encounter and she's laughing and having fun.

It's different if a girl is more aloof and not jumping through hoops, so these are not the same thing.

this is an ideal situation actually...if she is giving defiance and is enjoying you're company...you need to punish with a light/medium takeaway...roll-off and wait until she re-engages...it is going to feel awkward...you're going to be like, "shit...i hope she doesn't leave"...just do it...roll-off and pretend you're something else in the environment has caught you're attention and wait for her to reintiat the chat...when she does reward with a dhv and then go for another compliance test....i say you're situation is ideal because I can assume she is feeling good with you're attention and when you take it away like that she is going to FEEL that vacum and subconsciouly learn what is good behavior and what is bad.

[Matador]

Hey Matador, quick question:

If my target is displaying higher value before I do (when I would consider begining A2), should I just proceed with A3 and then throw in some DHVs during comfort or - ignore her, DHV and then qualify?

if she is dhving to you right of the bat...let he do it...give her IOI pings for legitimate value offerings and intermitently IOD her to keep it moving forward...you want her to feel like she is working and succeding and getting you...you don't want her to feel like she won you in 2 seconds...so the answer to your question is yes...you're in A3, but don't cut her off...let her DHV to you...it is an IOI...and after that go into C1...

for C1 use baseline interesting/funny stories with DHV spikes built into them...pepper in higher and higher compliances tests.

[Matador]

hey,

sorry to bombard you with another question, but i am having a lot of trouble to get pass this sticking point. Whats the best way to get pass kino anxiety. I always just try to push them off me and stuff, but other than that I don't know how else to kino escalate. Got any pointers in how to practice or what to do after pushing them off?

kino anxiety...hmm...okay, i see what you're talking about...I think that you're afraid of the outcome or afraid of success...I think that you convice yourself that you couldn't care if you get this girl or not, even though we both know it is not logically true...just let go man...just snap...i think you're holding on to hard....one of this fun things about this game is that it gives you persmission to be someone else, your alter-ego, a superhero...brad pitt in fight club...etc...you just need to let go during you're sarging adventures.

as far as the mechanics of kino escalating...build a kino ladder that commands higher levels of compliance in a gradual fashion...study the rules on how to climb the ladder...this is also in the

http://www.venusianarts.com/mmbook

[Matador]

Hey Matador,

Thanks for taking questions...hope you get a chance to get to mine.

Here goes: My sticking point is the ex boyfriend.

I saw alot of information on BF destroyers but none on the Ex-BF destroyers. All good info but I feel its missing an important element: the BF becoming the Ex-boyfriend.

So after you destroyed the BF and she leaves him, what happens next?

I met and hooked up with two girls that had BF's at the time (without me knowing). I ran tight game and things went extremely well, that both girls broke things off with their BF just for me.

Now what I noticed is that within the first 1-2 months of the breakup, the Ex would try to win these girls back by repeatedly calling and begging them for another chance. So what this does is create a HUGE guilt trip for these girls that they eventually go back to their EX-BF. They both agree that I have higher value, make them happier, and want to be with me, but that they feel sorry for leaving their EX-BF and eventually end up going back to their EX. This happend twice with two different girls and has me really puzzled.

Do you have any insight on this? Did i display too much high value or not enough value? And what about the Ex-Bf's neediness? Neediness is suppossed to be unattractive and not work right?

What would you suggest to permanently destroy a relationship?


interesting, first according to Mystery boyfriend destoryers don't work...

here is funny irony I noticed in life...you can build yourself up your whole life and develop supreme survival value and have a chick choose a pizza delivery boy....why?...because she feels COMFORTABLE with him...she feels she can ATTAIN AND KEEP HIM...she feels ENTITLED TO HIM...she feels like SETTING UP CAMP HERE...i recently did a one-on-one with a guy in new york who is a baller and the girls would be cognizant of his S value, but he had a problem building A3 and comfort with him...you can't blame him entirely...some of his girls were real trash, not ugly, but trash...you have a choice...work you're ass of making a stipper feel entitled to you or go after a higher-value girl who feels cozy sleeping in your cave...you're problem lies in A3, comfort and connection.

what you interpet as neediness may not be the case...she can perceive as his pair bond coming after her in full force...his emotional circuitry firing like crazy, which is a necessary component of the game.

[skuzzy]

Matador, I would like to know your thoughts on A2 and A3, inregards to push/pull, screen/qualify and the use of hoops from both man and woman.

Do you think A2 and A3 can be seen as cylindrical rather than A2 then A3.?
In a way you are testing each other for compliance until you realise you share interest and then move into comfort.

[sei313]

How do you deal with "alphas" who speak the language of the girls they're with, whereas you don't?

E.g. if you are not Chinese - you step up to a completely Chinese group, open the "alpha" guys in English (but loud enough for the group to hear) but the guys blow you out by speaking Chinese with the girls, which you can't understand.

If the guys are not alpha I try to befriend them. But the situation I gave above is tricky and COMMON in heavily multicultural/multi-lingual areas - I've been out night after night trying to find solutions.

if the girls can't understand english, I work with what I have...it is not very logical or the ideal circumstance...i just pretend like they understand me and keep talking and make sure I smile...I am ultra playful and start kinoing hard and playfully...with roll-offs, releases, and bodyrocking.

if i can explain the vibe, the frame is almost as if, I am being considerate to help them understand my english rather than being apologetic for not understanding theirs...secondly, when done right, they should have this look on their face as if they don't know entirely what's going on, but they know it's fun and they wish they could be completely part of it and spoke my language...i'll have to admit, later in the set with comfort, the language barrier posses and issue...if you get to comfort, you're A3 has to be all feeling and subcommunication...it's even hard to explain, but you've seen examples of two people who speak different languages fall in love...if I could say anthing, make yourself fall in love with in A3...i must say I have only taken this type of set all the way once and her english was broken at that...most times it is too much damn work...i would move on to the next.


Thanks for that Matador. In my question I was more talking about mixed sets in which they probably all speak ESL (English as a Second Language) i.e. they could probably all understand me, but the guys they are with use their first/common language (Chinese in the example) to blow me out and re-engage the girls they're with. Since I have opened the guys (group theory) and the guys have tried to blow me out by using their first language with the girls, what should I do next?

Thanks for any tips, this is going straight into the field.

[obie]

Hey Matador,

What are the most common basic and intermediate sticking points (and how to resolve them) that you see when teaching?

[Mastery]

My questions are about mixed sets.

1. I can open mixed sets if the guys are beta and just stand there watching. But majority of the time the guys in clubs are either alpha or macho/insecure and try to blow me out right away.
Me: Hey guys, I need an opinion.
AMOG: No thanks / we're not interested / ask someone else / leave us alone etc

How do you deal with that?

2. How do you deal with it if you enter a set and the guy puts his arm around you (I guess it's a subtle AMOG move, trying to show dominance). And do you still try to befriend him, or treat him as an AMOG now?

3. How do you hold the set after the opener (& FTC, disqualifier)? If I talk girl-relevant stuff to the guys, the guys get bored and try to blow me off. If I talk guy-relevant stuff to the guys, the girls tune out and I lose the girls attention. I also get the feeling that by staying in and giving attention to the guys while ignoring the target, I come across as trying for rapport with the guys, ie lower value & beta male. I feel my value dropping the longer I stay in these sets.

4. What are some examples of routines that are good to use in mixed sets after the opener?

[Thor]

hey matador I have a HUGE sticking point that I need your help with. I just cant seem to act "normal" around girls Im interested in. I always end up acting like a clown or just being goofy in general.

Any help would be greatly appreciated,
thor

[Dynamism]

Body-Language:

I've heard both:
Walking quick with purpose and walking a bit slower as well as slowing down other body movements.

Which is ideal? Because sometimes I see that both can be pretty much equal if the facial expression is correct (aka: slight smile/laid back with body erect, and never looking at the ground).

PS: We appreciate you taking the time to help us here.

[obie]

Matador,

I was wondering if you could talk a bit about the balance between being outcome independent and actually closing girls. It's like I view this stuff as a skillset and my primary aim is to develop said skillset, but my wing has been telling me for months that I am too outcome independent. Like if I had more of an intent to get laid, I'd get laid a lot more (note: He doesn't say this because I complain about it... just to clarify I never EVER complain about not getting laid. Ugh how weak. He says it because he really believes that fucking more girls, even 5s or 6s would help my game a lot). His philosophy is that you get good by closing what you can close and not necessarily worrying about getting "the hottest girls" or whatever and sort of letting the skillset come to you.

I would say that neither of us is completely right, but where do you say the balance is between being "outcome independent" (viewing outings as developing a skillset) versus being outcome-driven (going out to pull or set up dates)?

As always your feedback is much appreciated.

[Matador]

Matador, I would like to know your thoughts on A2 and A3, inregards to push/pull, screen/qualify and the use of hoops from both man and woman.

[QUOTE=skuzzy;6496]
Do you think A2 and A3 can be seen as cylindrical rather than A2 then A3.?


First, A2, A3, & C1 are cyclical and occur throughout while higher levels of compliance are achieved.


In a way you are testing each other for compliance until you realise you share interest and then move into comfort.


Second, there are times to allow her to win some of the battles and vice versa...the goal is to give the feeling of equal value when in comfort...she will test for compliance on certain things...you have to know when to submit and when not to...how do you know...pay attune to the overall value levels that are being realized between you and her.

I learnt this from Mystery...there are times where I will actually lay my head down on her lap like a little boy and let stroke my back and hair...in a motherly way...i saw Mystery do this and I was WTF? He explained...at some point (deep comfort)...she needs to know she has got access to you...you manhood...your male resources...she needs to feel the power of this big fucking bull of a man than can protect her and pleasure her.... is hers and that it is real and she is not in jeaporady of getting kicked out of the cave.

[Matador]

Thanks for that Matador. In my question I was more talking about mixed sets in which they probably all speak ESL (English as a Second Language) i.e. they could probably all understand me, but the guys they are with use their first/common language (Chinese in the example) to blow me out and re-engage the girls they're with. Since I have opened the guys (group theory) and the guys have tried to blow me out by using their first language with the girls, what should I do next?

Thanks for any tips, this is going straight into the field.

learn the language!...no just kidding...

hold your frame...hold it hard...don't even let them see you register that you might think he is tooling you or the group is laughing at you...it didn't even cross your mind...keep gaming as normal as if nothing in world happened...what i am saying is a complete disacknowledgement...be careful here...looking like you're trying to disacknowled them is a give away too...a sound byte from Tyler...imagine you are a happy baby...a happy baby doesn't concern himself with these things...he does not yet have an ego...he does not yet have insecurities...he is innocent and can do no wrong in the face of wrong...he is forgiven for everything...are you getting my point?

[Matador]

Hey Matador,

What are the most common basic and intermediate sticking points (and how to resolve them) that you see when teaching?

1) Overnegging
2) Bad subcomminications (leaning in...etc)
3) Underestimation or lack of A3

1) Overnegging
You really need to understand the Mystery's microcalibration model...you'll know exactly when to NEG and when not to...the game has so much more than NEGS...it has IODs which can be a myriad of things...roll-offs, takeaways, rejecting a value offering...etc. This is in the mystery method harcover book

http:\\www.venusianarts.com\mmbook

2) Subcommunications
Leaning in...speaking too fast...not rolling off...all the body language that helps you're congruency is usually wrong with most guys...they say one thing with their opener and their body language is saying something else.

3) A3
A3 is fucking crucial...i'll admit sometimes i get lazy and half-ass it...and I pay the price down the line...people think they can throw up some hoops and get away with it...it is so much more...a "understanding" needs to occur between you and the girl...she needs to feel you're emotions are taking over and you're captivated by her qualities and they you honestly dig her for who she is...you cannot help this process...you're emotions are in control and that is what she wants to see...have you ever told a girl you don't love her anymore...it sends their whole being shockwave...when breaking up with a girl...i talk in terms of the emotions she is making me feel and she REALLY listens...she understands....she feels bad about the situation, but understands it...she is not mad that you tricked her or you're a player...she's doesn't blame you if she knows it's your emotions that were dictating you.

that's the philosophical underpinnings of A3...details are also in the book...i am not trying to plug the book obie...i just can write chapter long responses :)

[obie]

Matador: Man, you totally sold me. I'll be sleeping outside Barnes & Noble tonight :^)

To the guy with the problem about ESL mixed groups, I've used the following gambit a few times to really get in good with the guys. I haven't tested this extensively though, be warned. Basically, learn beforehand to curse in a bunch of different languages. Then when you see a mixed group approach the guy(s), confirm his ethncity and just say "yeah , I know a few words" and drop the most vile curses ever. Never failed to light up the whole group or get in with the guys immediately.

[Matador]

My questions are about mixed sets.

1. I can open mixed sets if the guys are beta and just stand there watching. But majority of the time the guys in clubs are either alpha or macho/insecure and try to blow me out right away.
Me: Hey guys, I need an opinion.
AMOG: No thanks / we're not interested / ask someone else / leave us alone etc


1) Disacknowledge his comment...pretend like it didn't register...a good example of this is when a interview trys to bait jim morrison to qualify himself and he responds with "right" that made him look like the coolest fucking guy in the world and totally tooled the report with that one answer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tsGHkHYiKA

2) Another tactic to do is befriend the guys first and let them see you neg the girl and disqualify you'reself as a potential suitor...you can even open a guy with jealous girlfriend...that's right...in my experience guys love to assume that they are an authority on women...it even can be seen on pua boards...we call them keyboard jockies...tailor it, like you're asking your friend if he would take that shit from his girlfriend and they will love to give you their opionion...after that vibe with him...you can use dale carnegie type tactics here or go into some funny/interesting story...I saw LD do this and he doesn't even give them that...he justs asks logical questions and they sit their and answer them...the point is: disqualify you'reself, befriend,...last resort...amog back.

How do you deal with that?


2. How do you deal with it if you enter a set and the guy puts his arm around you (I guess it's a subtle AMOG move, trying to show dominance). And do you still try to befriend him, or treat him as an AMOG now?


yes...don't let this happen...what I do is put my arm back around him and get really close to his face and smile...the vibe is "get the fuck off of me, but don't in a smiling polite way"...i am trying to make him feel uncomfortable doing this...one time, a huge guy, was like 6'9"and not skinny...looked like an ex-football player did that to me...i am around 6'2"...i had to stand on my toes to get my arm around his neck and we just stood there for about thirty seconds...he got wieredout and broke first...he didn't pull that shit with me again.

Another way to handle this is set a violation trap and be really loud, funny, and theaterical...and say...dude, hands off, gay club's over there pal...OMG...you're like the touchy feely guy in club...you know, like the alpha male monkey in the wilderness...the guy who leans in...the guy who gropes...tell you what...why don't you grope me a beer and will call it a day.

don't even respond to what he has to say...if he holds on...put you're arm around him and keep engaging the girls as if nothing is happening....

NOTE: when you hold you're frame under immense pressure, it is a huge dhv spike for a girl...one time, i was singing to a girl while a guy was tapping me on the elbow trying to get my attention...she was just smiling at me and wondering if i was going to break (all unconsiously of course) and i didn't and she loved me for it....it is a wierd sometimes in the field.



3. How do you hold the set after the opener (& FTC, disqualifier)? If I talk girl-relevant stuff to the guys, the guys get bored and try to blow me off. If I talk guy-relevant stuff to the guys, the girls tune out and I lose the girls attention. I also get the feeling that by staying in and giving attention to the guys while ignoring the target, I come across as trying for rapport with the guys, ie lower value & beta male. I feel my value dropping the longer I stay in these sets.



4. What are some examples of routines that are good to use in mixed sets after the opener?
[/QUOTE]

i can't answer this...there is no magical routine for this...i view routines this way...they are like all scattered out in my mind in no order...when the situation arises...i throw it...understanding the model comes first...that will dicate when to throw what...each routine has a one or many purposes...if you walk into a mixed set and hostile...disacknowledgement (routine)...if he gropes you (grope back and disacknowledgement)...if he befriends...another contingency then...you get my point?

[Matador]

hey matador I have a HUGE sticking point that I need your help with. I just cant seem to act "normal" around girls Im interested in. I always end up acting like a clown or just being goofy in general.

Any help would be greatly appreciated,
thor


wow..don't have a clear cut answer...a couple of ways i would try to solve this if i were you.

1) First, focus on you're emotional circuitry
2) How are you feeling...are you feeling nervous and compensating...are you feeling like you have bounds of energy...understand what emotions are bing triggered.
3) Examine why...do you not feel entiled...do you feel the need to impress.
4) Create a correlation between the two
5) Visual how you would like to behave...practice that character
6) Understand what you're emotions are trying to get you to do...logically neutralize it...stay in character.

that would be a good first start.

do not keep going on that this is something innate or destiny or something like that...this can be changed...i have trained and seen too many success stories think otherwise.

[Matador]

Body-Language:

I've heard both:
Walking quick with purpose and walking a bit slower as well as slowing down other body movements.

Which is ideal? Because sometimes I see that both can be pretty much equal if the facial expression is correct (aka: slight smile/laid back with body erect, and never looking at the ground).

PS: We appreciate you taking the time to help us here.

i have not field-tested walking speeds to give you an answer...i will not give any advice, I do not believe in or I will offer an hypothesis...I myself, walk slow and have slowed down my speech (not loundess) and it has a huge impact...the goal is talk on your own time...you are not afraid she is going to leave before you get it out...that's the vibe...i believe, that someone who is not in control of their time and scurrying all over the place...looks tacky...that's the feeling i get...i like to walk and talk slow.

[Matador]

Matador,

I was wondering if you could talk a bit about the balance between being outcome independent and actually closing girls. It's like I view this stuff as a skillset and my primary aim is to develop said skillset, but my wing has been telling me for months that I am too outcome independent. Like if I had more of an intent to get laid, I'd get laid a lot more (note: He doesn't say this because I complain about it... just to clarify I never EVER complain about not getting laid. Ugh how weak. He says it because he really believes that fucking more girls, even 5s or 6s would help my game a lot). His philosophy is that you get good by closing what you can close and not necessarily worrying about getting "the hottest girls" or whatever and sort of letting the skillset come to you.

I would say that neither of us is completely right, but where do you say the balance is between being "outcome independent" (viewing outings as developing a skillset) versus being outcome-driven (going out to pull or set up dates)?

As always your feedback is much appreciated.

Hi Obie,

Good question...i talked about this in a previous post...it is a couple of sections down by my name...don't hesitate to post again if it doesn't answer your questions:

http://www.venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=600&highlight=play+to+win
http://www.venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=600&highlight=play+to+win

[sting]

Hi Matador -

thanks for the thread.
my question is about conversational rapport, in 1 on 1 situations. particularly a Day 2, in a quiet atmosphere like a coffee shop.


how to go from "two people who have met" to "two people who have a deep connection", from that situation.
the question is a little broad - a post on it would be great.

Question 2 - phone game, especially getting quick # closes (2-3minutes, no time for comfort building) back together for a Day 2.

Question 3 - Identity. i'm a student - and typically just ignore it as a base to build game from. any suggestions on how to make that work to my advantage - internally or out - would be most welcome.

thanks again,
Cheers,
Sting

[Thor]

hey matador I have a HUGE sticking point that I need your help with. I just cant seem to act "normal" around girls Im interested in. I always end up acting like a clown or just being goofy in general.

Any help would be greatly appreciated,
thor

[Everest]

Hi Matador,

thank you for your time. My sticky points:


The KC. Though I technically know the steps and routines, I subconciously seem to avoid even thinking about it in set, even when I have strong IOIs. How can I push myself to do that? (kino escalation like hand, hips, hair, is no problem anymore)

"Ever on" - I want to bring myself to the point where I am always on and approach whenever it is possible, not just when I'm sarging. How do you do that?

Thanks.

[obie]

Hey Matador,

I read that previous post. It is very helpful, and clearly most guys in this have experiences along the same lines as the ones you describe, but it's not exactly what I am asking about. That second post it more about not following through on good prospects as an ego defense mechanism to protect your identity as someone who as great skills with woman. I was asking about something a bit different.

Let me be more direct: do you have to fuck "regular" girls to get good? It's like sometimes I'm quite certain I can lay like a 5 or 6but I don't really feel motivated to do it. My wing tells me I should start doing it as much as possible and that it will really help my game.

What do you say?

[Thor]

Obie Ive wondered the same thing. Maybe we're just being picky. Afterall you know what they say about mopeds and fat girls, theyre both fun to ride, but you can only do it when no one is looking :)

[JCMoney]

Matador,
How goes it bro? 2 quick questions

What are some direct openers that are safe to use?
I'm not talking some kinda AFC "you're gorgeous, let's go out sometime" opener...but something that assumes you've already got attraction, and you're now escalating forward and asking her to qualify.

also...

Let's assume you already know that a girl thinks you're "hot, sexy, whatever" and has conveyed to her friends that she is already attracted to you for this reason...yet the two of you have never really talked. When you approach this girl...should u start in A3 immediately and how would this go?

JC

[Greystoke]

Matador,

What is your take on social circle game and warm approaches? Would you advise not trying to game your friends' female friends, even if your friends can provide you with enough social proof?

What would be your approach in adapting the M3 model to suit this context? I tend to meet girls through my friends, but I end up being the friends of their friends by default.

[distant light]

1. What are some good material to read, to learn how to just talk regular (In terms of pickup) instead of just doing routine after routine?

2. If I'm not running a routine what should I be doing? Sometimes when I do routine stacks I have no clue what to talk about because it ends up becoming boring and I just eject.

3. How should the energy in the conversation be? Like I feel like I'm a dancing monkey because all I'm doing is running attract material. Talking about family just seems so boring and anything that seems boring to me I end up not doing. (Is it even possible to talk about mundane things and actually have a fun time talking about it?)

[Havok]

Matador,

The other Day I had a girl come out for a day 2. She was like ~8.5-8.7

In the past when I've talked with her, I've run real heavy attract material using roll playing, etc, frameing myself as the prize etc. She would play into this and give massive IOI's.

However at the time she had a boyfriend so I would play flirt with her but never be explicit that I was targeting her.. Making like I was occupied enough with my own girls.

The other day she tells me that she's broken up with her boyfriend and wants to hang out now that I live in her area. The message includes two lines of exclaimation points so I took that as an I0I.

Day 2 rolls around and she takes me out for a drink. We have playful banter and the vibe is good. We arrive to the bar (its a tuesday night so not busy) and sit down and she orders me a drink (already framed as her getting me a drink) ok so.. The red and black jacket that LD gave me comes into conversation.. She's into fashion shit so we start talking about it.. which leads us into a series of storys that we pass back and forth on various topics. Fashion, places we've lived , adventures, ETC. I drop a bunch of value stuff into a whole bunch of good storys I forget that I even had, stuff I had developed a few months ago and hadn't used in a while but went off great. Had some good spikes and we're having a good time. Though at a certain point I notice that, In enjoying conversation with her, I was forgetting to push for kino escalation.

The conversation had peaks and vallys and over all was Interesting and she was Interested.. However, I felt like I might have gotten a little too into telling storys and enjoying myself than focusing on gaming her.

Do you ever find yourself having such a good time that you forget to Escalate?

When we went back to my place, I kiss closed her, in the apartment , and then at the car. I held off because I felt there hadn't been enough time to escalate for a F close and knew that she was interested in coming back later anyway.

If I don't have one of my other girls over on Sat, I think I'm going to have her over sunday night, if not, later next week.

I feel though, Ideally I probably could have kino escalated midway my storytelling and gotten a little more physical with her. I still feel good that it's on for when I have her over next, but It could have been tighter, like more touchy feely , kino and a moderate makeout.

Is there any way to keep yourself mindful of when to shift stages? I feel like I become distracted from when to shift gears.

Do you have any perspectives that you think might help on being focused?

Peace,

Brady.

[CPeters]

Wow, this is cool.

OK 'be theatrical'. Having a head spaz right now, just read 'keep everything still to show high status, as low status people have small vocabularies and thus have to gesticulate more to get their point across'.

So my question is what to gesticulate? What is worthy of acting out and what merely makes you look low value?

If I say 'my stomach was hurting' and put my hands to cradle my stomach, is that lowering my value?
Should my hands be still unless they reach to the face for an act-out ALA Mystery's neice story?

[hyper]

Matador, howz life treating you bro??

My question, is about the hi-jack my brain campaign. It's just not clear to me, how I should use this. To me it feels like you're throwing yourself to the girl by saying "baby, I cant stop thinking about you, you hi-jacked my brain!!!" I know that this is supposed to help minimize LMR, by making the girl think that you are pair bonded to her but in reality I feel like this makes HB's think i am becoming too easy.

I had an HB9 call me out of the blue to chill. I met her at a club and I pulled fucking sick game. Open, Attract all her friends and her, Qualify, Jealosy Plotline, Qualify (made out with her and her friend and whispered in her ear that she was the best...kinda like the gino gambit thing) did Comfort Number closed.

I ran phone game on her... she went away for the holidays so i put that on hold. Stoped waisting the 7 hours.

One day she calls me out of the blue to chill. I need to kill +- 6 hours so I do that with a massive day2. I ran A2 again, then A3, then comfort, kino escalation was natural, kiss closed but I always pulled BACK first. It was ON. She was into me. I kept it to comfort kissing only because I didn't have a seduction location. and i didnt want buyers remorse.

Anyway I call 3 days later with the hi-jack my brain campaign, "you know wat...I hate you. blah blah blah I was doing this and I felt like making some for you... it went along the same lines as mystery's gambit. After that. things start going downhill. She flakes on me for the day3. (was it cause I told her to bring incense?... and she thought sex was going to happen?)... anyway she's not answering calls. And Im not sure if I do Sinn's call everyday tactic because then I can really show way too much interest.

what are your thoughts what went wrong here???

thanks hyper

[Jack Tripper]

Thanks Matador.

Last question. Whats your opinion on gaming girls that you see EVERYWHERE on a consistent basis but never had a good opportunity to approach?

Back in my AFC days, I would see the same HBs at the gym, mall, and store week after week but never had the balls to approach. We would just look at each other without saying a word. I think I may have waited too long and now its seems to the point of awkwardness whenever we see each other as I sense that there may be attraction there.

Looking back, shouldve followed the 3 second rule as I caught myself psyching myself out with the longer i waited.

Whats a good opener for a situation like this? Do you also have a favorite gym opener?

Or do you think i should just forget about this one, learn from it, and move on?

[Matador]

Hello Gentlemen,

I am doing a bootcamp in Toronto this weekend and am swamped...I promise to answer everyone's questions on this thread before I lock this thread on this sunday at midnight...so feel free to post questions until then. Moxie, a Venutian Arts Instructor, will be the Instructor for volume 2.

[ware_ru]

Thanks a lot for spending your time on this, two questions:

How do you respond to and calibrate drunk girl IOI's? They'll open you, or ask you your name, and giggle at shit and accept kino more easily than sober girls. Do you still count about 3 ioi's and move on, and as long as they are still in that state escalate as if they were acting like that while not drunk? Or is there something else entirely?


2) And much less importantly: If you go to a very good college, when is the best time to let the girl know this (attraction or comfort, or does it not matter)? Also, what kind of effect does it have on her (I'm talking about gaming college girls here); i.e. what's running through her head and how does it affect your chances, maybe even lover/provider frame etc.

[Abower The Don]

What kind of smile do you have when approaching a set during day game ? Can you post a picture of a good facial expression ? Thank you:)

[relics]

This one :). Lmao I know I'm not supposed to answer questions but.....yeah

Here's mine before he closes this:

Hey Matador, what would you do if a girl goes out and tries to instill jealousy in you? Like she'd call and go "Ohh I did this...this, that and this, and that too...and then we did that then I did this today! What did you do?"

I find this behaviour increasing after the HB sees my willingness to walk away and what I do on my spare time......I'm wording around a reframe of "So why are you trying to impress me?"

[Dynamism]

Matador, you know just as well as anyone that these days there's a fine line of doing "research" to improve skills and actually going out and doing experiments yourself.

Everyone's selling seduction products. John Alexander, Carlos, David D, Style, Swinggcat, Juggler, Tyler, and of course Mystery. AND many others. And Savoy even.

Many people have made the right choice to start improving their lives. However they get so addicted that they are virtually glued to the computer screen reading as opposed to experiencing.

What is the right balance between research and practice? These selesmen are good. They make it seem as if THEIR product has something NOBODY ELSE'S has, and that if you're on the road to self-improvement, you've got the choice to either buy the product or suffer socially.

I don't believe this. Even their sales tactics no longer work on me. Hell, I respect some of the products (I think you know which ones they are), but frankly I can see right through the marketing tactics (which I admit are very good).

What do you have to say on this subject? What are the CORE essentials we've gotta have down to have the most EFFICIENT improvement? What are the CORE essentials we NEED to know?

[Enigma]

Hi Matador,

generally people say that when you are with a girl you should be leading the conversation in one way or another. Related to this is the question: how dominant should you be? I think this is more important at the beginning when approaching.

I've seen it that a girl was about to walk away and a PUA would say: "Stop, talk to me for a few seconds!" In a dominant, but non-aggressive voice. And the girl would stop and listen to him and he would win her over.

It seems to be more important in the beginning of the interaction, in the first few seconds when the first impression is made and sometimes the girl wants to walk away. But are there other situations where dominance is important?

So my question: when and how and to what a degree should you be dominant? When should you be more laid-back? Can we associate this to the MM? For example:

A1: dominant
A2: dominant
A3: more laid back
C1: laid back
etc...

[obie]

Hey Matador,

One last question that's been driving me nuts for a while and I can't get a good answer to.

It feels in the field like going for an isolation or a move explicitly is a make-or-break compliance test. Typically if the girl goes with you, you are solidly in A3 and can confidently continue from there, however, if the girl doesn't go, I haven't found a good way to recover from this. If you stay, you lose value because you said you were going to do something else, if you go, you are leaving the interaction (at least temporarily).

Microcalibration says you should neg big time, then DHV, but again the only way I can think to do this is to leave , (neg) then come back into the group with other girls (DHV). Is there any other way to do this that doesn't involve leaving?

What is the best way to recover from failed isolation attempt?

[Matador]

Hi Matador -

thanks for the thread.
my question is about conversational rapport, in 1 on 1 situations. particularly a Day 2, in a quiet atmosphere like a coffee shop.


how to go from "two people who have met" to "two people who have a deep connection", from that situation.
the question is a little broad - a post on it would be great.

Question 2 - phone game, especially getting quick # closes (2-3minutes, no time for comfort building) back together for a Day 2.

Question 3 - Identity. i'm a student - and typically just ignore it as a base to build game from. any suggestions on how to make that work to my advantage - internally or out - would be most welcome.

thanks again,
Cheers,
Sting


Comfort building takes time...on average 4-7 hours..here are some principles to follow when in comfort:

As trivial as it may sound here are some key concepts to comfort:

1) Vibing/Conversational Rapport (TD has a real good post on this)
2) Being interesting
3) Humor - Interesting stories with humor as a release is powerful
4) Demonstrate Vunberability
5) Grounding Routine

Question 2:
Number closes technically occur in c1, but can occur earlieri...if 2-3 minutes is all you have you are either in A2 or A3. In my experience you can close quickly in A2, but the numbers have a higher chance of being flakes...but if that's all the time you have...then you have no choice...you can only do what you can do...i know this...if you do nothing...nothing happens.

Question 3
1) A powerful identity is subjective...depending on the type of women you are going for...adopt the idenity of a tribal leader in that world...Playboy models typically go for rock stars and celebs...other girls prefer other archetypes.
2) I understand you are a student, so you're idenity is still going to evolve, however, you can fake it to you make it or adopt your hobby as your identity you roll with...for example, I knew of a SEO (Search Engine Optimization) expert who made all his money from that trade and adopted the identity of a music producer...he got a company together, some raw talent, did some marketing and guess what...he is a real living, breathing, walking, talking music producer and the more evidence he fills his life with, external and internal (sub-communications, congruency) the more believable it becomes...btw, the last time I saw him, he was rolling in a limo with 3-4 hotties in his group...at first glance, he didn't look uber famous yet, but looked like an up and commer.

hey matador I have a HUGE sticking point that I need your help with. I just cant seem to act "normal" around girls Im interested in. I always end up acting like a clown or just being goofy in general.

Any help would be greatly appreciated,
thor

I know i saw this question before...i believe I answered it earlier

Hi Matador,

thank you for your time. My sticky points:


The KC. Though I technically know the steps and routines, I subconciously seem to avoid even thinking about it in set, even when I have strong IOIs. How can I push myself to do that? (kino escalation like hand, hips, hair, is no problem anymore)

"Ever on" - I want to bring myself to the point where I am always on and approach whenever it is possible, not just when I'm sarging. How do you do that?

Thanks.

1) Don't know...how I do it? I know my purpose of being there...i know when I am mentually masturabating...i know when I am being weak...I push myself...I push myself hard and disconnect the momentary anxiety that I feel...after a few warmup sets...I feel an adrenaline rush of what my future possiblities are with this beautiful creature if I only try...I relish being there...push, push, push...fear is an illusion and most times things go well...even if it doesn't...as Mystery would say "recover soilder" and go into the next set. This is just my process

2) What you're saying...how do I always stay in state? State is just an emotional reaction caused by feelings of entiltement...we call this confidence. You will have stories in your mind that cause you to feel confident/entitled in your current endevour. Can I pull this off? Will this work? We answer those questions by stories of past experiences. What if we could we could bypass this process and just feel entitled even though there is no logical justification for it...you would feel the same, but you're route there would be easier. I know it might not make sense and might feel like a cheat...assume a level of confidence and entitlement that you might not necessarily believe. Assume it, and more importantly, FEEL it on the inside and let it permeate out. It will do wonders for you're subcommunications. If you are going to wait for you're body chemistry to be just right and based on past stories...you're approach consistenty will be limitied.

Hey Matador,

I read that previous post. It is very helpful, and clearly most guys in this have experiences along the same lines as the ones you describe, but it's not exactly what I am asking about. That second post it more about not following through on good prospects as an ego defense mechanism to protect your identity as someone who as great skills with woman. I was asking about something a bit different.

Let me be more direct: do you have to fuck "regular" girls to get good? It's like sometimes I'm quite certain I can lay like a 5 or 6but I don't really feel motivated to do it. My wing tells me I should start doing it as much as possible and that it will really help my game.

What do you say?

yes...there is inherint value in going after 5&6 level girls...in my case, I don't try to game girls that I am not attracted to...i don't like to play with girl's emotions...i try to leave every girl off in a better place than when I found her...I am attracted to 5&6's sometimes...attraction is wierd...the girls don't all have to look like jenny mcarthy. Second, the game is still played, comfort levels still have to be preserved...if anything, you're A3 has to be tighter...sometimes you'll lose a lower value girl because of that...there is value in playing the game with average girls...you're skills will be sharpened for when the time comes you have a genuine HB10 on you're hands

Matador,
How goes it bro? 2 quick questions

What are some direct openers that are safe to use?
I'm not talking some kinda AFC "you're gorgeous, let's go out sometime" opener...but something that assumes you've already got attraction, and you're now escalating forward and asking her to qualify.

also...

Let's assume you already know that a girl thinks you're "hot, sexy, whatever" and has conveyed to her friends that she is already attracted to you for this reason...yet the two of you have never really talked. When you approach this girl...should u start in A3 immediately and how would this go?

JC

1) "Hi, I'm James...and stack" or from Mehow "You guys look like you have a real cool, chill vibe...and stack"
2) One slight token neg (light) and go into A3 and microcalibrate from there...sometimes I don't even neg at all.

[Matador]

Matador,

What is your take on social circle game and warm approaches? Would you advise not trying to game your friends' female friends, even if your friends can provide you with enough social proof?

What would be your approach in adapting the M3 model to suit this context? I tend to meet girls through my friends, but I end up being the friends of their friends by default.

1) Why? If you have social proof...comfort or attraction is there. Second, be careful about kino escalating in front of group to prevent ASD. Second, if you get player reputation, the rest of the girls may be off limits.
2) A1->A2-> and so on...the model applies...if you are introduced, then stack into A2 story after that...you still have to build attraction, build A3, and build comfort...if the social circle knows about you and you're there but not in set...you still need to open...the only thing that you should realize here is depending on your social status in the tribe or DHV stories spread about you A2 may or may not be there right off the bat.

1. What are some good material to read, to learn how to just talk regular (In terms of pickup) instead of just doing routine after routine?

2. If I'm not running a routine what should I be doing? Sometimes when I do routine stacks I have no clue what to talk about because it ends up becoming boring and I just eject.

3. How should the energy in the conversation be? Like I feel like I'm a dancing monkey because all I'm doing is running attract material. Talking about family just seems so boring and anything that seems boring to me I end up not doing. (Is it even possible to talk about mundane things and actually have a fun time talking about it?)

1) Any books on how to tell stories in a compelling way and imbed DHV spikes into them...they are more natural sounding than routine after routine after routine...take examples from you're own life and incorporate the principles...Juggler has good stuff...Lance has good stuff...Mystery is the king of talking in general and we will have more depth to storytelling in new book
2) Read ch6 in VAH on microcalibration...you DHV, go for compliance, test...depending on compliance test results you'll know where to go from there.
3) Energy levels should be equal or slighter higher...second, dancing monkey comes into play with too much buying temperature game and not going into A3 when it is time.

Matador,

The other Day I had a girl come out for a day 2. She was like ~8.5-8.7

In the past when I've talked with her, I've run real heavy attract material using roll playing, etc, frameing myself as the prize etc. She would play into this and give massive IOI's.

However at the time she had a boyfriend so I would play flirt with her but never be explicit that I was targeting her.. Making like I was occupied enough with my own girls.

The other day she tells me that she's broken up with her boyfriend and wants to hang out now that I live in her area. The message includes two lines of exclaimation points so I took that as an I0I.

Day 2 rolls around and she takes me out for a drink. We have playful banter and the vibe is good. We arrive to the bar (its a tuesday night so not busy) and sit down and she orders me a drink (already framed as her getting me a drink) ok so.. The red and black jacket that LD gave me comes into conversation.. She's into fashion shit so we start talking about it.. which leads us into a series of storys that we pass back and forth on various topics. Fashion, places we've lived , adventures, ETC. I drop a bunch of value stuff into a whole bunch of good storys I forget that I even had, stuff I had developed a few months ago and hadn't used in a while but went off great. Had some good spikes and we're having a good time. Though at a certain point I notice that, In enjoying conversation with her, I was forgetting to push for kino escalation.

The conversation had peaks and vallys and over all was Interesting and she was Interested.. However, I felt like I might have gotten a little too into telling storys and enjoying myself than focusing on gaming her.

Do you ever find yourself having such a good time that you forget to Escalate?

When we went back to my place, I kiss closed her, in the apartment , and then at the car. I held off because I felt there hadn't been enough time to escalate for a F close and knew that she was interested in coming back later anyway.

If I don't have one of my other girls over on Sat, I think I'm going to have her over sunday night, if not, later next week.

I feel though, Ideally I probably could have kino escalated midway my storytelling and gotten a little more physical with her. I still feel good that it's on for when I have her over next, but It could have been tighter, like more touchy feely , kino and a moderate makeout.

Is there any way to keep yourself mindful of when to shift stages? I feel like I become distracted from when to shift gears.

Do you have any perspectives that you think might help on being focused?

Peace,

Brady.

At this stage in my game progression, I don't really keep track of time, other than a how much comfort time i've spent with her...i stay focused on the emotional subcommunication that is taking place...sometimes a kiss can come off the opener...sometimes 20 minutes...sometimes on a day 2...it is all calibrated for the girls comfort levels, attraction, and IOIs i'm getting.

1) when telling stories pay attention to the emotinal connection and IOI's that should be increasing when good vibing is taking place like this...when it FEELS right and you'll know if you pay attention...go into a KINO routine...if you stay in comfort too long, you will run the risk of becoming the girlfriend and she will resent you for not escalating.
2) remember why you are there...you're not there to tell stories...you are there to meet, attract, and start a sexual relationship with a woman.
3) you use the game, not vice versa...and yes, sometimes I get carried away with this too.

Wow, this is cool.

OK 'be theatrical'. Having a head spaz right now, just read 'keep everything still to show high status, as low status people have small vocabularies and thus have to gesticulate more to get their point across'.

So my question is what to gesticulate? What is worthy of acting out and what merely makes you look low value?

If I say 'my stomach was hurting' and put my hands to cradle my stomach, is that lowering my value?
Should my hands be still unless they reach to the face for an act-out ALA Mystery's neice story?

ok...i can't give you a step 1, 2, 3 on how to do this...keep this principle in mind...when being theatrical or charismatic...the purpose is to use you're theatrics to make a person feel...to feel something...ideally, to feel a myriad of emotions...happy, sad, anger, curious...after they are done talking with you they feel like they went on a ride...an emotional rollercoaster ride...look at good comedians...they do this...they will have climaxes periodically...followed by supsensful moments...followed by another eruption in laughter...etc.

Matador, howz life treating you bro??

My question, is about the hi-jack my brain campaign. It's just not clear to me, how I should use this. To me it feels like you're throwing yourself to the girl by saying "baby, I cant stop thinking about you, you hi-jacked my brain!!!" I know that this is supposed to help minimize LMR, by making the girl think that you are pair bonded to her but in reality I feel like this makes HB's think i am becoming too easy.

I had an HB9 call me out of the blue to chill. I met her at a club and I pulled fucking sick game. Open, Attract all her friends and her, Qualify, Jealosy Plotline, Qualify (made out with her and her friend and whispered in her ear that she was the best...kinda like the gino gambit thing) did Comfort Number closed.

I ran phone game on her... she went away for the holidays so i put that on hold. Stoped waisting the 7 hours.

One day she calls me out of the blue to chill. I need to kill +- 6 hours so I do that with a massive day2. I ran A2 again, then A3, then comfort, kino escalation was natural, kiss closed but I always pulled BACK first. It was ON. She was into me. I kept it to comfort kissing only because I didn't have a seduction location. and i didnt want buyers remorse.

Anyway I call 3 days later with the hi-jack my brain campaign, "you know wat...I hate you. blah blah blah I was doing this and I felt like making some for you... it went along the same lines as mystery's gambit. After that. things start going downhill. She flakes on me for the day3. (was it cause I told her to bring incense?... and she thought sex was going to happen?)... anyway she's not answering calls. And Im not sure if I do Sinn's call everyday tactic because then I can really show way too much interest.

what are your thoughts what went wrong here???

thanks hyper

[Matador]

Matador, howz life treating you bro??

My question, is about the hi-jack my brain campaign. It's just not clear to me, how I should use this. To me it feels like you're throwing yourself to the girl by saying "baby, I cant stop thinking about you, you hi-jacked my brain!!!" I know that this is supposed to help minimize LMR, by making the girl think that you are pair bonded to her but in reality I feel like this makes HB's think i am becoming too easy.

I had an HB9 call me out of the blue to chill. I met her at a club and I pulled fucking sick game. Open, Attract all her friends and her, Qualify, Jealosy Plotline, Qualify (made out with her and her friend and whispered in her ear that she was the best...kinda like the gino gambit thing) did Comfort Number closed.

I ran phone game on her... she went away for the holidays so i put that on hold. Stoped waisting the 7 hours.

One day she calls me out of the blue to chill. I need to kill +- 6 hours so I do that with a massive day2. I ran A2 again, then A3, then comfort, kino escalation was natural, kiss closed but I always pulled BACK first. It was ON. She was into me. I kept it to comfort kissing only because I didn't have a seduction location. and i didnt want buyers remorse.

Anyway I call 3 days later with the hi-jack my brain campaign, "you know wat...I hate you. blah blah blah I was doing this and I felt like making some for you... it went along the same lines as mystery's gambit. After that. things start going downhill. She flakes on me for the day3. (was it cause I told her to bring incense?... and she thought sex was going to happen?)... anyway she's not answering calls. And Im not sure if I do Sinn's call everyday tactic because then I can really show way too much interest.

what are your thoughts what went wrong here???

thanks hyper

A3 needs to be genuine...you can start hi-jack my brain campaign here...if you don't do a proper A3 and then all of a sudden you're brain has been hijacked...the game is up...girls hate the deception...they love when a guy is really into him and she has earned it, but if she has no idea why...and then you say, "you've hijacked my brain"...it comes off like a player...a liar...and she will withdraw...you get my point...here is the purpose of A3

"To make a girl feel that you're emotional circuitry is responding and causing you to become attracted to her and you can't help it...there are qualities about her that are causing you're brain and emotions to go into autopilot and be drawn to her"...A3 is more based on emotion rather than saying logically that, I like you because you're xyz characteristic...that is why it takes some time to do it right and why A2, A3, and C1 are cyclical.

Thanks Matador.

Last question. Whats your opinion on gaming girls that you see EVERYWHERE on a consistent basis but never had a good opportunity to approach?

Back in my AFC days, I would see the same HBs at the gym, mall, and store week after week but never had the balls to approach. We would just look at each other without saying a word. I think I may have waited too long and now its seems to the point of awkwardness whenever we see each other as I sense that there may be attraction there.

Looking back, shouldve followed the 3 second rule as I caught myself psyching myself out with the longer i waited.

Whats a good opener for a situation like this? Do you also have a favorite gym opener?

Or do you think i should just forget about this one, learn from it, and move on?

No...you can reopen them...use anything and stack into A2...make sure the logistics are right and that she is not in the middle of a set and trying to work out while you're gaming her...also in this social circle watch out for ASD...don't run TV Test in the middle of the gym floor...she knows people are watching( the same people she has to see every day)...open, attract, qualify...time bridge or bounce for sushi after the gym.

On a side note...i would rather not game gym girls...when it's over...you are forced to see them or work out at different times...you do this enough, it can be a problem...you've got to switch gyms...once, i got the hottest girl in the gym...we were gaming each other...she brought another guy to work out with who was not a member to run a jealousy plotline...my whole workout for 2-3 weeks were messed up because of the continuous distraction...logically I knew what she was doing, but my emotions will fire just like anyone elses...i don't need that drama at the gym...on-the-otherhand, if she is really worth it...go for it.

Thanks a lot for spending your time on this, two questions:

How do you respond to and calibrate drunk girl IOI's? They'll open you, or ask you your name, and giggle at shit and accept kino more easily than sober girls. Do you still count about 3 ioi's and move on, and as long as they are still in that state escalate as if they were acting like that while not drunk? Or is there something else entirely?


2) And much less importantly: If you go to a very good college, when is the best time to let the girl know this (attraction or comfort, or does it not matter)? Also, what kind of effect does it have on her (I'm talking about gaming college girls here); i.e. what's running through her head and how does it affect your chances, maybe even lover/provider frame etc.

Drunk girl game
DHV and NEGS and KINO Escalation Hard and Fast

you are dealing with someone on a very emotional level...it has to be high-energy, fun, and playful

2) If you're in a very good school...she is going to assume qualities about you that she wouldn't from a guy at a bar...however, there are alot of guys like you on campus, so the playing field is leveled...therefore, follow the model...watch for the indicators and microcalibrate from there.

What kind of smile do you have when approaching a set during day game ? Can you post a picture of a good facial expression ? Thank you:)

a natural, non-salesman smile and lower it a few seconds you are in set...bring it back to accentuate points in you A2...sorry...I don't post pictures

This one :). Lmao I know I'm not supposed to answer questions but.....yeah

Here's mine before he closes this:

Hey Matador, what would you do if a girl goes out and tries to instill jealousy in you? Like she'd call and go "Ohh I did this...this, that and this, and that too...and then we did that then I did this today! What did you do?"

I find this behaviour increasing after the HB sees my willingness to walk away and what I do on my spare time......I'm wording around a reframe of "So why are you trying to impress me?"


ok...you can interpret the whole thing as an IOI...don't fall into it, get reactive and DLV yourself...instead focus on give her the emotional fullfilment that A3 provides...cycle back between A2, A3, and Comfort

[Matador]

Matador, you know just as well as anyone that these days there's a fine line of doing "research" to improve skills and actually going out and doing experiments yourself.

Everyone's selling seduction products. John Alexander, Carlos, David D, Style, Swinggcat, Juggler, Tyler, and of course Mystery. AND many others. And Savoy even.

Many people have made the right choice to start improving their lives. However they get so addicted that they are virtually glued to the computer screen reading as opposed to experiencing.

What is the right balance between research and practice? These selesmen are good. They make it seem as if THEIR product has something NOBODY ELSE'S has, and that if you're on the road to self-improvement, you've got the choice to either buy the product or suffer socially.

I don't believe this. Even their sales tactics no longer work on me. Hell, I respect some of the products (I think you know which ones they are), but frankly I can see right through the marketing tactics (which I admit are very good).

What do you have to say on this subject? What are the CORE essentials we've gotta have down to have the most EFFICIENT improvement? What are the CORE essentials we NEED to know?


In my opinion, Mystery is the best I've ever seen...I live with him, so I probably get to see more than most people...I saw him once open a fucking HOT gril at Skybar in los angeles at the bottom of the elevator...by the time we go to our floor, he was holding her, and then bounced her back into the room...Moxie, Lovedrop, and I were all there and we just looked at each other like "holy shit". There will be a lot of guys pitching products...good for them, let them prosper, however, in my opinion, they all tie back to Mystery's Method...and if you look at all the top guys in the community...they are all his students.

I once had a conversation with a guy in the community that we all know of. I told him that there should be a R&D think tank in his organization. He told me that even "C+ or 75% Level" products will sell and that there are community junkies who will buy anything.

I have no moral authority to take the highground and judge another person...however, I feel that to really get rich or make a difference, you have to affect people positively in their health, wealth, or relationships...better than the next man....that's all I focus on...if i focus on that...i know i will get it right...this is not the easiest trick in the world...that is why our book hasn't been released yet...LD is still working on it.

In included the above paragraph for the purposes of saying to you that is why I've chosen Mystery's model as the model to practice.

so

1) Pick a model that is field tested and gets results (Mystery's Method will deliver...period)
2) You have to practice and work for it
3) You have to associate yourself with top talent and guys who are better than you
4) You have to be humble enough to continually learn and ask for feedback
5) The stages and principles in Mystery's book are solid...they WILL work...i have since Mystery, Lovedrop and my crew all use it and pull of amazing shit.
6) I will say this, there have been valuable contributions to the community that if you look their work, you will know how to plug it into Mystery's Model.
7) From a techincal level...Opening, Building Attraction, Justifying a Mutal Attraction, Comfort Building, Kino Escalation


Hi Matador,

generally people say that when you are with a girl you should be leading the conversation in one way or another. Related to this is the question: how dominant should you be? I think this is more important at the beginning when approaching.

I've seen it that a girl was about to walk away and a PUA would say: "Stop, talk to me for a few seconds!" In a dominant, but non-aggressive voice. And the girl would stop and listen to him and he would win her over.

It seems to be more important in the beginning of the interaction, in the first few seconds when the first impression is made and sometimes the girl wants to walk away. But are there other situations where dominance is important?

So my question: when and how and to what a degree should you be dominant? When should you be more laid-back? Can we associate this to the MM? For example:

A1: dominant
A2: dominant
A3: more laid back
C1: laid back
etc...

I will interepret dominate to mean that in A1, A2 that you are leading the conversation. That is correct, however, it can change on a dime. In A3...it is time for the girl to shine...let her DHV to you...if that is what you mean by laid back...then yes...in Comfort...a free exchange of stories (Pinging) should be going back and forth...do not shut down her threads, yet, still DHV to her...it should be natural...does this make sense?


Hey Matador,

One last question that's been driving me nuts for a while and I can't get a good answer to.

It feels in the field like going for an isolation or a move explicitly is a make-or-break compliance test. Typically if the girl goes with you, you are solidly in A3 and can confidently continue from there, however, if the girl doesn't go, I haven't found a good way to recover from this. If you stay, you lose value because you said you were going to do something else, if you go, you are leaving the interaction (at least temporarily).

Microcalibration says you should neg big time, then DHV, but again the only way I can think to do this is to leave , (neg) then come back into the group with other girls (DHV). Is there any other way to do this that doesn't involve leaving?

What is the best way to recover from failed isolation attempt?

1) Say ok...you're loosing me...wait for the IOI response...if you don't get it and she is about to leave...immediatley DHV
2) If you get the IOI response...DHV

timing is very important here...in the first scenario...it feels awkward to wait there and you will be like "shit...i hope she doesn't leave"...just do it however and wait for the IOI that should be coming...even her standing there is a passive IOI and you can reward her with a DHV for that.

Does this makes sense?