Women PUA

[Fatal_Desire]

I'm a female PUA, I guess you could say. Not only can I get any guy that I want, but I can also make him fall in love with me. Of course my methods are completley different, and I don't use this ability to get guys to sleep with me. It's all for fun, and a bit more challenging too, I think. You guys have all these suggestions and classes to help you...I just learn as I go. Anyway, I'm just curious to see if there are more females on here. Seduction truley is an art form.:)

[Dreamweaver]

I know of a Dutch PUA (Tijn from Masterflirt) who also teaches group of women by the way, so it's not a male-only community you're dealing with. Apparently some women also need some help;)

[relics]

How does it work? I'd love to get to know the system because men's attraction switches are very physically biased.


Recommend any ebooks? Cuz as far as I know, if you're an ugly girl, you're not gonna get high quality guys. Truth.

[PradaG]

Women can use the same types of psychology on guys and have it work just as efficiently: push-pull, having a life outside of you, jealousy plotlines, being un-needy, being competent and confident, kino escalation, good at storytelling and talking (DHV), qualifying you, etc.

True, a beautiful girl can get any guy she wants, but not make him fall in love with her (only make him want her for her body and maybe even dis-illusion him to THINK he really likes/loves/care for her), but a not as physically attractive girl can get a fair share too with the right skills.

[xen0s]

If you think about it, the game is what helps us get over or overcome such women. I guess the one with the stronger frame wins.

[Thor]

"Catch Him and Keep Him" is the only program I know of. Its run by David D's company. Ive read a couple of the newsletters and they seem legit. Check it out if you want.

http://catchhimandkeephim.com/

(how original)

[Fatal_Desire]

"Women can use the same types of psychology on guys and have it work just as efficiently: push-pull, having a life outside of you, jealousy plotlines, being un-needy, being competent and confident, kino escalation, good at storytelling and talking (DHV), qualifying you, etc."

That does work in making a guy interested, but not in getting him to actually love you or keeping him around. You have to be different from all of the other women first off, or else even with all your stratgey he's going to get bored of you. I'd say the most important thing is setting yourself apart from every other beautiful girl.

"If a woman wants to hold a man, she has merely to appeal to what is worst in him. " -Oscar Wilde

[Poeta]

PU can work to woman too.

But men are more looking beautiful girls than girls are looking handsome men. Beauty is more importante to man than to women.

My friend HB9,5 said to me: "I prefer a ugly badguy than a handsome guy".

And the alpha caractheristcs are more to seduce women than men.

But some PU tactics women can use and get good results. Of course, she need be a 7 or a 6,5 at minimun. She cant be UG.

[JohnJohnJohnson]

I have a girl friend who needs to learn how to do this. Can you describe your techniques, or do you not really know how you do it? Thanks,

JJJ

[Heartwork]

Fatal Desire wants me..

Just throwing that out there :cool:

[PradaG]

"Women can use the same types of psychology on guys and have it work just as efficiently: push-pull, having a life outside of you, jealousy plotlines, being un-needy, being competent and confident, kino escalation, good at storytelling and talking (DHV), qualifying you, etc."

That does work in making a guy interested, but not in getting him to actually love you or keeping him around. You have to be different from all of the other women first off, or else even with all your stratgey he's going to get bored of you. I'd say the most important thing is setting yourself apart from every other beautiful girl.

"If a woman wants to hold a man, she has merely to appeal to what is worst in him. " -Oscar Wilde

Doing that (push-pull, having a life, etc.) IS setting you apart from every other girl. The biggest mistake I see that girls make with guys is that they seem to believe that their sex appeal will win the game, under the false impression that guys don't care about feelings and heartfelt emotions. Sex appealattracts the guy - all the other stuff is what makes him fall in love. And it will make him fall in love, because the girl has personality.

[JohnJohnJohnson]

Ummmm ... setting yourself apart from all the other beautiful girls???? The vast majority of guys don't get with that many beautiful girls.

The girl I fell in love with showed me nothing but emphatic affection ("pull") on my way to that level of feeling.

I got with her because she was physically attractive. I started having feelings for her because she was FULL OF LIFE. One of the most love-inducing attributes a woman can have is bringing joy of life with her.

[Affection]

I'm assuming she's talking about high-value males that have a lot of options. "Hot" is enough to get me to fuck you, usually, but not enough on its own to get me to stay with you. I've been working on some curriculum for a class for women... it's interesting stuff. Similar, but different.


Ummmm ... setting yourself apart from all the other beautiful girls???? The vast majority of guys don't get with that many beautiful girls.


~~Affection

[sting]

Well...
I truly believe ANY guy can learn to have a decent level of success with women who he thinks are "out of his league".
is the same true for women? i doubt it... if she's not physically attractive enough, thats the end of that hope.

FD,
welcome to the forum - its good to have women aboard, particularly a clever one!

cheers,
Sting

[princesachula]

The psychology used on women does work on men, but in moderation. You have to do things on a subtle level with men until you get to know if they are into games or not. The push-pull works, but too much gets annoying and labels you a unsure psyco bitch....ignoring calls works too but it can be real hard for a social diva not to pick up the phone for a man she likes.:o

[relics]

Come pick me up.

I bet you it won't work unless you're hot and you don't hide by the principles we have.

[Limelight]

Come pick me up.

I bet you it won't work unless you're hot and you don't hide by the principles we have.

Dude, have you ever been picked-up by a female PUA? Don't be so condescending buddy.

I know a female PUA and I can assure you that she can pick up guys who are way more attractive than her...

[Heartwork]

PUA tactics can work on guys, half the stuff in the community is based of things that girls do to win over guys, just reversed on them.

And by the way PUA Tactics work on Girl PUA's

;)

[relics]

I know a female PUA and I can assure you that she can pick up guys who are way more attractive than her...

Respect.

I suppose I react to this the same way girls act to the community when they find it out

"Oh that won't work on me"
But then it does anyway.

However I stand behind my statements and I'll keep them with me until I see it with my eyes.

[Jens]

theres this female pua trainer thats part of puatraining.com i think? her name is kevia?

[jnu]

I'm not going to lie. I love PUA womens. So much in common.

[claudius]

I find that 99% of guys base whether or not they date a girl based on her looks. Your bra size matters in seducing a guy, not your personality (even though he might act like it).

Sorry girls.

[Johnny Blaze]

Too many of the guys are coming across as narrow minded in this thread. This mentality makes you less attractive to women. As for female PUAs, we have a few on the Scotland lair. I'm sure they'd be interested in having something like a bootcamp for women to help them.

[relics]

Ew. I hate bra sizes. Well, the bigger ones.

I'm a B-C Man :)

[ride]

I personaly was picked up and fell in love with a 6.5, notice the lack of HB. We are more than hardons fellas. I have had some experiance too, I am 27 and been with well over 100 women; and I went loopy over a girl that dosent get an HB designation. It was classic pick up. She DHVed like crazy, ran jelousy plot lines, push pull ect.

Granted the pick up took her weeks, but I was what she wanted, she snagged me and I fell hard!

[YoungScorpio]

I can see this working real well once it's furthur developed of course she can't be an UG. There was a female member on the Mystery Method team. She was supposed to be writing a book for women on how to pick up men.

[Waka]

Several times I've been VERY attracted to women who are (by most standards) physically unattractive.

Although looks are probably 60%, personality is definitely a major thing, and for me at least, can sometimes override the looks angle entirely.

Although obviously if she looked like an unwashed pig whos had an unpleasant surprise, it doesn't matter how awesome her personality is.

[Jess_R]

I think it's funny as hell that this thread got so many damn views! A GIRL POSTS... and everyone flocks to respond. I know I'm being a damn crab- apple, but why does this seem so AFC?

[Astrodokk]

The way to my heart is through my stomach!

[Pyrrhus]

Lol remember though that all girls when they hear about the game etc. say that wouldn't work on me

how good looking would you rate yourself whoever started this?
what evidence do you have that you can get any guy?

Be interested to hear if you could say more than just your original post?!

[gaash2]

Yea, I hate to break it to the ladies.. I can't speak to every guy, but I can speak for myself and no amount of game will get me to date anyone under a 7 or even 8.

[stolen crown]

The only way I fall in love is if she is Bi and sexually open to a little bit of roughness and even then it goes away in a few months to a year.

[The Monk]

Yea, I hate to break it to the ladies.. I can't speak to every guy, but I can speak for myself and no amount of game will get me to date anyone under a 7 or even 8.

Not saying looks aren't important, because I'd be lying if I said they weren't. But, at least with me, they can't be the sole basis for dating a girl. Same goes for sex appeal. Notice how I say DATING a girl.

If you're a one-night stand sorta guy (which I'm not, but to each their own), then looks and cup sizes play a much bigger role. However, I like a woman who calls me on my shit just as easily as I do hers. A woman who's more challenging is more rewarding.

Just as woman don't like guys who are pushovers, I certainly wouldn't want to be with a woman who says 'yes' to everything and agrees with everything you say. Think about it. Wouldn't that just drive you nuts?? I'd rather date a 7 who's fun to be with and makes me work to get her than a 10 who's IQ rivals Miss Teen South Carolina's. :p

"Personality goes a long way." - Samuel L. Jackson

[The Major]

Tough situation. I'd think female PUA's would have a tougher time, since (as Mystery rightfully says) men are mostly attracted to mathematical and geometrical statistics upon first approach.

I know that I'm highly attracted to a woman's degree of femininity... What a powerful weapon ladies have at their disposal, but some fail to use!

[Shotokan]

munk i completly agre with you being with a girl that you can have an intelectual and emotinal conection with is defently worth your wial but watch out oneitis might hit haha unfortanutly it did for me still working on her

[MHeLLe]

Okay, everyone is operating under a broad assumption here that I do not necessarily think is true in all cases; that women WANT to pick up a guy with the intent of 'keeping' him. Personally, I don't have the patience or time for a relationship. I'd rather have a 'friends with benefits' type set-up. I don't want to be bothered with the other nonsense. However, one has to go through all the initial nonsense generally in order to set up a reliable booty call, and it seems like an awful lot of trouble and annoyance especially when I can just run to the store for double A batteries. Most men are bumbling fools in bed anyway. It seems more efficient to just grab the ol' pocket rocket and then get back to working on my thesis.

Cheers

M

[Qya]

It is very difficult to be a PUA, if you are a woman...
I am probably the only female PUA in Greece, or I belong to the minority, since I have never met an other female here...
My mentor is one of the best PUA's in Greece (prpbly the best one)..I have an excellent teacher and he had tought me all of his tricks, so when we go out together, we end up with the desirable result. But there a Huuuuge prob- His knowledge is ideal as long as you are a guy...I can't perform all the things he's been teaching me just because some men get scared if for example I'll try to show him that I am a "tribal leader"....But since we attract men by ourselver either way, it is easier to get to step S without a hard work...

[PersephoneInBlack]

Ive been playing the Game and reinventing it to my own purposes since I was 14.

I don't see how it is harder for women to be PUAs....I dont follow any specific teachings...although The VH1 show has good points and insights.

I attract the men I want from across a room, hardly putting any effort into it. I am not a 36-24-36 hottie by any means. But what I do have is intelligence, a dash of danger and a hell of a lot of mystery that piques the interest of many, and often surprises types of men.

Ive gone with a group of girlfriends out to a club and when they all went outside briefly, I was approached by several different potential partners. I barely acknowledged them, yet they bought drinks for my whole table, without me asking. Bought me flowers. A few gave me contact numbers.

All because I project myself as mysterious and dark, as possible adventure or walk on the dark side for many.

And boy do I love that side....

Being goth has great advantages :D

[HBPornstar]

If the women PUAs are picking up women, then sure, they can use the same game that guys do. They can also use some aspects of that on guys, but it's a little different.

Guys, by social convention, need to be the initiator, the leader, and dominant. It's what makes them the 'manly men' they are. If a girl becomes the initiator, it can be very disconcerting for the guy. All of a sudden his role as instigator is threatened. He is no longer the orchestrator. It's hard for a guy to give up the control this way and this causes him to feel insecure, so the girl may not be so successful, even if the guy had been eying her all night from across the bar. As soon as the roles are flipped, everything changes. There are, of course, exceptional cases, but I'd say this describes the majority.

If the girl is particularly hot, and she approaches a guy, his instinct may be to question her intentions; 'Is this a joke? Did my buddies put you up to this?' If they are particularly insecure to begin with, they might even think, 'Wow, what's wrong with her that no one has picked her up and she has to go looking? Is she working? Does she have a penis?!' especially if he assumes she's 'out of his league'. It's definitely a much greater challenge for a hot girl to get the selection of guys she's after. She may have a ton of guys approaching her all night, but they won't necessarily be the kind of guy she'll go home with, especially since 90% of them will just be there swooning over her looks. (This usually disqualifies a guy as anything other than a drink-buyer for most girls)

There are definitely ways for a girl to approach a guy that still keeps him feeling masculine and secure, without arousing suspicion, but they require solid game on her part.

Yea, I hate to break it to the ladies.. I can't speak to every guy, but I can speak for myself and no amount of game will get me to date anyone under a 7 or even 8.

I'm absolutely sure that you're right, gash, just as I'm sure that the numbers you assign to womens' attractiveness vary with the degree of interest she shows in you. Any girl who demonstrates enthusiasm in you automatically will attain an HB7+ rating from you. (unless she is truly hideous)

'Good Game' for women revolves around making the guy feel attractive, interesting, funny, charming and intelligent, regardless of the truth. ;)


...hole and a heartbeat.

I'd be offended by the crassness of that comment, except that my girlfriends and I refer to you guys as a 'pole and a heartbeat' or a 'self-powered dildo'!



Cheers!

[Qya]

If the women PUAs are picking up women, then sure, they can use the same game that guys do. They can also use some aspects of that on guys, but it's a little different.
(...)
If the girl is particularly hot, and she approaches a guy, his instinct may be to question her intentions....


That's what our difference is...A female PUA will not approach him the same way a guy would approach a woman..She will give him A.Is in order to have his attention...Then some more A.I's, then he will probably come closer, some Kino, IOI's and so it goes...But even if a woman makes the first move she will not do it "man.ly", so the guy won't be sure from the first moment whether she's interested or she just smiled at him or so....

[Johnny Soporno]

I'd be offended by the crassness of that comment, except that my girlfriends and I refer to you guys as a 'pole and a heartbeat' or a 'self-powered dildo'!


I don't care

-Rewok


Heh. Mutually-reciprocated apathy... Looks like you two won't be getting together anytime soon ;)

Personally, I've always felt both envious and sorry for guys who's only requirement of a sex-partner was 'a hole and a heartbeat'...

Envious in that, by having no 'taste' standard, they could always have a satisfying experience, and sorry for precisely the same reason.


'Heartbeat and a Pole' is a BRILLIANT turnabout - and for me, turnabout is foreplay! :D

Johnny Soporno
Really loves Pornstars

[JohnnyWolf]

The two books I would recomend for women to read, in regards to pick up, meeting and keeping men would be the following:

He's Just Not That Into You
By Greg Behrendt and Liz Tuccillo

http://www.simonsays.com/assets/isbn/068987474X/C_068987474X.jpg

This is a great book for relationship mangement, since we all know that it isn't hard for a girl to have sex...it's everything after that.



How to Talk to Anyone: 92 Little Tricks for Big Success in Relationships by Leil Lowndes

http://www.consultpivotal.com/talk.jpg

This book is written by a woman, a very successful one that knows what she's talking about. This will allow you to get the conversations going, moving forward, and allowing the guy to easily "pick you up", since a female pick up artist, is exactly the opposite...to be successful, you must make it easy for the guy to pick you up and seem like it was his idea.

[Gekko]

don't make me laugh woman,
i find it's ridiculus that you post here....go play whit you barbie or something...

[asab204]

Hello ladies and Gents,
I too am a female PUA and study it though I have yet to take a course with VA I hope to in the next few months, I am glad to know that many men think it's cool for women to be PUA's though the game is not always the same it is still the same method of how to attract the people in your lives that you truly want to have in it, though I must say I was at first very hesitant to join due to the fact that I thought that men especially those of you PUA's or almost PUA's here would think that I was trying to fit into your "secret" world. That's not the case well atleast not the case for me, I grew up always travelling up and down the east coast so I never really knew how to socially interact with others in school or out, though I had always exceeded any and all tasks asked of me I just never could quite become social and make friends....until I heard about TMM, I am a avid reader and so I have read much about pick up and use it in my daily life, not to hook up with and have sex with men but to have friends men and women alike.

I must say that this forum is very interesting, I enjoy reading the posts here and have gotten some good sound advice on here, though I would like to say to GEKKO AND TO MEN LIKE HIM......

STOP BEING AN AFC!!!!!!! stop hating on women for educating themselves on how to be a socially dynamic when they may have not been "taught" this, grow balls and get over yourself, evolve and try to get better.

I have come in contact with men that can handle my game, though it's not like men's my game is just fit to my particular personality, you should know that I respect the men that can handle theirselves with dignity and allow a women to hold their own with the men.


Thanks for letting me say my piece and I look forward to the shit tests that may come my way.

[BJW]

Hello ladies and Gents,
I too am a female PUA and study it though I have yet to take a course with VA I hope to in the next few months, I am glad to know that many men think it's cool for women to be PUA's though the game is not always the same it is still the same method of how to attract the people in your lives that you truly want to have in it, though I must say I was at first very hesitant to join due to the fact that I thought that men especially those of you PUA's or almost PUA's here would think that I was trying to fit into your "secret" world. That's not the case well atleast not the case for me, I grew up always travelling up and down the east coast so I never really knew how to socially interact with others in school or out, though I had always exceeded any and all tasks asked of me I just never could quite become social and make friends....until I heard about TMM, I am a avid reader and so I have read much about pick up and use it in my daily life, not to hook up with and have sex with men but to have friends men and women alike.

I must say that this forum is very interesting, I enjoy reading the posts here and have gotten some good sound advice on here, though I would like to say to GEKKO AND TO MEN LIKE HIM......

STOP BEING AN AFC!!!!!!! stop hating on women for educating themselves on how to be a socially dynamic when they may have not been "taught" this, grow balls and get over yourself, evolve and try to get better.

I have come in contact with men that can handle my game, though it's not like men's my game is just fit to my particular personality, you should know that I respect the men that can handle theirselves with dignity and allow a women to hold their own with the men.


Thanks for letting me say my piece and I look forward to the shit tests that may come my way.
Respect Girl,
Being an Army (or more precisely and Air Force) Brat left me in much the same way as you, with few roots and few long-term contacts (not to mention other probs from my younger years, ie: parents divorce).
Personally, I hold no grudge against you or any other ladies who want to join the community; More power to you, and I hope you find your happiness here. People like Gekko, they still have some things to overcome, so pay what they may say the same worth as a grain of salt.

Shit, we're all in this together, No? Stop the divisiveness; we don't need it here.

B

[Hengman]

Should we applause? *Applause*

[-TruTh-]

Theres alot of controversy over female PUAs why?? I actually rather befriend these girls don't you guys think outside the box. You go to a club with 1-2 HB7-9 Female PUAs YOU GET PRESELECTED. These ladies are Wing Girls Mystery himself has a few these ladies are effective and great people to know.

[milk]

my 2 cents;

they did a study to see what attraction was with man and women.
for a man just one part lighted up basicly, the visual.
for a women it was all over the map and thus based more on personality etc.

Ofcourse i am a guy, and ALL the guys i know are attracted to looks, ALL.
the personality is what makes it last or not. way i see it;

looks (filter) > if you pass that filter, only THEN will you look to see if shes enough fun for longer or not.


----
besides that, game for man is game for man. if a girl would approach me, and start being a tribel leader etc, man that would be really really unatractive.

for a girl the opposide is true I THINK. so she needs to be weak, and someone that needs to be protected, that is hot for us. the innocent girl, the girl in need of rescue, that is hot. not the rambo girl, that is damn disgusting.
besides that just make him feel like he is god and hell love you for it.

push and pull and all that stuff for girls as i said will only work if you passed the filter of looks in the first place. otherwise its just annoying.

but man a girl must be really fugly if you need to learn pickup.. its easy for a girl, theve got one big switch. just work on youre body and looks and you can go directly into comfort(as long as it looks natural).

lol this is my insecurity problem etc, but i would love to shoot down a women approaching me once as well to return the favor :D

[Argo navis]

I've done the nasty job :) Went on a solo sarge some night, some ugly girl I vaguely knew from high school decided to buy me a drink. Cool. She went on and bought me more and more drinks without asking for my permission. Cool.

After some, I blew her off because I had given no promise and was talking to a high school acquaintance who would keep trying to get me drunk. My pals expected me in some other place.

:) Yeah, I can be a male whore at times.

This said : there is a LOT more of the VA that applies to men than what you think. I'll expand on this some other time.

And girls entering the community? Is bliss : I know some 9's who don't understand male psychology, don't want to put on a skirt and have all the AFCs allover them all nights long - in other words, eventhough they have different problems, they have solid reasons regardless of their looks to enter the game.

And I see plenty of reasons to welcome them to the game.

Cheers,
Argo

[asab204]

Hello PUA's and RAFC's,
Thanks for all the comments, I am loving getting the feedback from all of you.

;) MILK I must say I am not FUGLY I have been told too many times to put a number to how pretty, sexy, and beautiful I am and was raised to have a very good self esteem level, so I have to say that you tend to believe what people tell you about yourself, so that being said I am not ugly nor am I fugly I do have my reasons to be part of the pick up community, which :D ARGO pretty much helped to put in correct terms. I am here to learn how to attract and find quality men using the skills taught in the pick up community.

I love the views that everyone has posted it makes me feel much better about men in the world, almost as if my being here (and other female PUA's) is/are NOT A THREAT to the men in the game. Like I said in my previous post I don't roll the way men do in game, I have my own signature type that is fit to my personality.

[Argo navis]

Amen sistah!

[PoisonSweetKiss]

Hi Fatal_desire!
I am also an aspiring fPUA though I am new to the community. I've recently been very disappointed that there is very little information in the community aimed towards women (unless of course these women are bisexual or lesbian). Although a lot of the main concepts can be used by women trying to seduce men, i've still had a difficult time trying to translate it into something useful for us. I came across a female only forum which aims to serve the same purpose that the Venusian Arts etc does for men. Everybody is learning and no-one has really reached a master level, but it's a good place to start. If your interested go to www.womenslair.herforum.net

Even if this fails to interest you, I think it would be great for us to share tips and realisations. :)

Kisses
xxx

[Showcase]

I don't blame any woman for wanting to join the pick-up community. Everyone deserves the best for themselves, so why not increase the quality of partners in your life to what YOU want?

Even the hottest girls can only usually get the men that approach them, which for the vast majority means CHODES!

[PoisonSweetKiss]

I don't blame any woman for wanting to join the pick-up community. Everyone deserves the best for themselves, so why not increase the quality of partners in your life to what YOU want?

Even the hottest girls can only usually get the men that approach them, which for the vast majority means CHODES!

Exactly Spillz! Men don't seem to understand that it's just not enough to sit in a bar with a low-cut top and telling your friends not to cockblock! We deserve the right to choose and attract the kind of guy that we want just as you guys deserve any girl that you want. If you put so much effort into self-improvement, you want a reward for it! :D

Kisses
xxx

[Doctor D]

I don't think I could stop laughing if a girl opens me with who lies more :D

[PoisonSweetKiss]

lol i know! Its just as funny when a guy does it to me, and several have! I tend to back up my game with inner game though so i dont need to rely on patterns and things.

Kisses
xxx

[Argo navis]

PoisonSweetKiss - About getting more informations on how to pickup guys you desire, why don't you simply ask? Me, I am going to welcome ladies here as equals - period. If you moan too much I'll pinch and treat you like a brat, for starters :) But if you have questions we can answer, I am like "why not"?

[Doctor D]

PoisonSweetKiss - About getting more informations on how to pickup guys you desire, why don't you simply ask? Me, I am going to welcome ladies here as equals - period. If you moan too much I'll pinch and treat you like a brat, for starters :) But if you have questions we can answer, I am like "why not"?

I think I have the perfect stack for women.

A1 - *Walk over and tap man on the shoulder*
A2 - *Show boobs*
A3 - *Ask man to take off his shirt*
*And you can skip all the comfort crap*
S1-S3 - I think you know what to do.

[PoisonSweetKiss]

Thank you Argo!

Who do you suggest i ask? You guys? I intended to post asking for feedback, but i'm still waiting untill i get used to the forum and do a little bit of background reading. I'm also sitting exams so therefore trying to avoid the internet at all costs! hehe

I have several theories regarding male attraction switches and have briefly field tested them, but not enough to say they work just yet.

And as for pinching me for moaning, I wouldn't expect anything less! In fact it would be gratifying not to be treating condescendingly.

kisses
xxx

[PoisonSweetKiss]

hmm i'm intregued... does this fPUA actually practise as such or is she a natural? If she has studied it please PM me and let me know how to contact her or maybe you could pass on a link to a women only PUA forum i'm involved in?

kisses
xxx

[PoisonSweetKiss]

um that was addressing limelight by the way lol

[PoisonSweetKiss]

theres this female pua trainer thats part of puatraining.com i think? her name is kevia?

Yeah her name is Keizia or Keisia. She gives a female point of view on how the student is doing. In otherwords she is a really hot girl who is hard to impress, and the student attempts to pick her up. As far as i'm aware she's not involved in the female PUA stuff.

kisses
xxx

[Argo navis]

*pinches PKS with a sly smirk on his face*.

That wasn't for moaning, just for fun. It's a bit tedious because often times, when ladies enter the VA boards, they get poorly negged or are treated like practice targets.

With this in mind, please don't forget that everyone gets challenged this way - if it happens, don't mind it. I'd suggest you start by PM with a few of the regular posters. Moderators are a bit too busy to answer (with the exception of Johnny Soporno who I find to be a great inspiration source and mpua - I have no qualms about people who are open about their sexuality).

I don't want to introduce a bias here, but some people clearly know what they talk about : Decibel is one, The Judge, Azazels_Wolf, and your favorite european venusian artist (that would be me), many others too (checkers, Hotspur, Hengman), I can't name them all off the top of my head.

So you can probably use us as "early guides" or "guardian angels" : me, I know I will answer because I have this nagging feeling there is a huge potential for exchange between girls and boys who take this... "at heart".

And Doc, that "strategy" of yours works for guys too, lookie (recycled, but still) http://www.break.com/index/balls_out_jeans.html

[PoisonSweetKiss]

*pinches PKS with a sly smirk on his face*.[/url]

Ouch! That pinch tickled! hehe

Aw, I really appreciate your help, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside... lol

It's really intimidating on this forum where everyone seems to know what they are talking about and where I am, for the most part, unaccepted. But I intend to persevere!

And thank you also for the tips, I shall read up on the previous posts etc of the people you suggested and hopefully this will help me.

I am not sure what help I could be to you, but if you need a woman's perspective on anything I would be more than happy to help.

Kisses
xxx

[Argo navis]

Aw, I really appreciate your help, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside... lol


[insert straight face here]
This time around you get it for free, start sparing for a few drinks though, keeping in mind I am all about Champagne these days.


You could bring us the same we can bring to you : a woman's perspective, yeah. For example, method aside, there are a few facts about women we are trying to determine or situations we can "handle" without being sure what works or not - it is a constant exploration. And one we are passionate about to an extent (for the people I mentioned).

So, just as you want to know how to find this untamed man who truely is fun, smart, a challenge and won't turn into a doormat at the first drop of a hat, as a female forum moderator for fPUAs - you sure will be added value if you stick around and we manage to keep gentlemen involved in the conversations (and you got decent taste for selecting Champagne).

Bit of an extra background : I am a business owner who transposes pickup to sales - so I use it myself on men. ;) That's how a knowledge base grows
and an expertise is created, by exchanging very different points of view : I basically do have some of your answers already, probably, all you have to do is collect your questions
and get used to the place.

[PoisonSweetKiss]

This time around you get it for free, start sparing for a few drinks though, keeping in mind I am all about Champagne these days.... method aside, there are a few facts about women we are trying to determine or situations we can "handle" without being sure what works or not - it is a constant exploration....so I use it myself on men. ;) That's how a knowledge base grows and an expertise is created, by exchanging very different points of view : I basically do have some of your answers already, probably, all you have to do is collect your questions
and get used to the place.

:eek: Champagne?! Now tsk tsk, a poor little student like me couldn't possibly cater to your expensive tastes...

Hmm, well what kind of situations? I must say I am intrigued. You seem to all have everything worked out!

Oh and unfortunately I am not moderator of the fPUA forum, that I must credit to someone else. I only joined it a fortnight or so ago.

As for questions I have loads!

I have been spending time developing theories and analysis of female body language and attempting to find out what is too dominant etc. Your opinions on that would be welcomed. Also, I have been opening in a day game scenario and number closed on my first night game approach (yay for me!) but I am still finding that it can sometimes be a turn-off the seduction is being taken out of the man's control. What are your views on this? I have been trying to figure out ways to make the man believe he is the one doing the seducing ;) Though I'm not quite sure how to go about it.

kisses
xxx

[Argo navis]

You're welcome, period, and a cheeseburger and a beer will do.


I am still finding that it can sometimes be a turn-off the seduction is being taken out of the man's control.


Which totally is a major sticking point for most female PUAs - even HBPornstar, a qualified pornstar, mentioned it. The answer is very interesting and applicable to business for me too.

As far as I am concerned, a woman who takes charge or tries to is extremely exciting, quite the opposite of a turn off. I quoted a girl who "introduced me" to some alternate sexual practices many times already : she had that impressive "I don't ask, don't propose, don't give a damn, and am gonna f* your brains off" attitude.

She is basically the one and only woman who almost raped me - it was very consenusal but honestly, I found myself at times on the floor of my kitchen wondering if she had said "hello" before ripping my clothes off. She is one of the best sex partners I ever had.

...I wonder what others like DB or Azazels_wolf have to share about the topic : I, as a high social status person, generally don't like my girls too "mushy" and totally welcome initiative as a challenge and an opportunity for me to evolve.

And as a consultant, self assured male business partner never are "frown upon" receiving advice that sometime involves reviewing whole chunks of their infrastructure. In meetings, it's the wimps in disguise who qualify to me and try to make a point for the sake of opening their mouths. To generally say something very stupid.

Thanks for bringing up an excellent question about the topic btw, which, I am sure, will be much appreciated by other ladies "in the house" - wether you're a mod or not over there.

(I'd tend to answer : calibrate your prospects better, for starters, but I am not in a woman's shoes - I'd need a situational example of how other guys are turned off when you take the lead
to far. I'd say, don't make it verbal : if a girl tells me "so are we doing it doggy or?" it comes across a bit weird. If she removes my clothes in silence and during makeout, then it's on.
Next, I'd say "entice more" - the above, sexually "dominant" lady would drop sexual innuendos here and there, subtle, that are impossible to miss to the guy - as much of a chump as he may be (and I was back then),
it will trigger thoughts of sex in the back of his mind and he'll bind them to you, start wondering, and start feeling he must do something and that he is in "control").

I am also very interested in your personal theories and views if you care to share.

[PoisonSweetKiss]

I am also very interested in your personal theories and views if you care to share.

Well with regard to body language, I have begun to study Cameron Diaz and Angelina Jolie and the posture of Dita Von Teese, Marylin Monroe etc. I've found that Cameron is very expressive with her body language and facial expressions which make her come across as a fun, sociable person who would be easy to be around. Her sex appeal comes purely from her beauty. On the other hand, Angelina and the others are much more subtle and much less expansive when it come to gestures. These women come off as being extremely sexual and that is something I am to achieve. One thing I have noticed is that they balance their body language very well so that they are being confident but not alpha and masculine. For example, in assuming a power stance while standing, the part their legs so they are taking up more space but balance it out by lifting one shoulder and leaning primarily on the leg furthest away or something else that has a "i need protected" type vibe. I am tried this very

I'm not entirely sure if this is correct and i haven't had a chance to fully field test it, but it stands true so far. I think i'm learning tolerably fast, particularly since I've only begun this stuff about two weeks ago.

With regard to the woman taking charge and approaching, the kind of guy I would aim for would definitely find this a turn on. Unfortunately none of them seem to exist in Northern Ireland! So I will have to figure something else out in the meantime.

Sometimes instead of approaching during the day, when I see an attractive man on the street and catch him checking me out, I smile lingeringly. They are so AFC they just about get the courage to smile back, never mind approach me!

Well as for the girl your referring to, she sounds like an amazingly powerful and confident lover and woman. I have a lot of respect for that kind of person. As for calibrating my prospects, please elaborate. I'm mainly referring to dominance and control with regard to approaching really, not sexual dominance, I have no problem or issue there...

As for enticement, I think that fits in with the evident sexuality that I want to portray (I don't mean slutty, but seductive) and is great advice. I have plenty of food for thought now :)

Kisses
xxx

[Argo navis]

Which you paid back to me : your point about body language is dead on, quite brilliant (then again, as a woman you are hardwired to read body language easier, but this is brilliant). As for your finding a match problem, unfortunately, right now I am in the french part of Switzerland and quite busy :)

...
Calibrating as in : many people, men or women (you quoted Angelina Jolie who TOTALLY is like that) have a pseudo self esteem. They show outer signs of self confidence, but down inside there is that "crack" waiting to burst open and set the inner wussbag free.

I am quoting Angelina Jolie because right on top of her sex, she has a latin tattoo saying "what feeds me destroys me" - and acknoweldges, this way, a "victim" status towards men. Why would we want to actually destroy her? Where does that fear come from?

It is the same fear that makes her seek for validation, for glory, the cam lights, adventures - she isn't in full control of herslef. Oh, don't take me wrong : she has amazing human qualities as well.

But a true and complete self assurance, at least when she blurts out crap like "I get bored easilly" (an excuse for commitment phobia), is the sign of an inner game flaw. These are the kinds of very subtle cues you can use to calibrate your guys early on - not exactly these, but...

Let me find two spare seconds, and I'll get back to the debate, meanwhile pondering what you just delivered.

...See what I meant when I said you'd be added value and we could answer your questions?-)

[PoisonSweetKiss]

Shocking! And there I thought you would drop everything to tend my every need...

Ok i'm not quite sure if you are advocating that I "let slip" my inner game flaws because that's what activates the "damsel in distress" effect in men, or to avoid those aspects of Angelina Jolie as a role model.

Well i'm sure you'll get back to me on that when you get a think and a chance.

Kisses
xxx

[Argo navis]

Shocking! And there I thought you would drop everything to tend my every need...


I do have a deep respect for sexually liberated women who know what they want. Send me pictures of you, I'll see what I can do.

Other than that, I am not talking about your inner game : it feels right *from this distance.

I am talking about refining your screening of mates : identifying their hidden inner game weaknesses more easilly - even. And more rapidly. A now classic and quintessential article about this is to be found here : http://www.bristollair.com/inner-game/understanding/self-esteem.html

What I'll do next time around in this very thread is highlight the "for ladies" counterpart of that article. Also, keep in mind the undergoing tribal dynamics : men want beautiful (fertiile) and faithful (carrying my genes) women. This is key. I will expand, but one bit at a time to allow time for you to read, integrate, try, and tell.

Talk to you soon, fpuas stay tuned.

[azazels_wolf]

Gaming the girl already, hmmmm Argo? ;)
Great convo you have going here.

Poison:

Welcome! You're a lucky duck to have been warmly greeted by Argo! He no doubt will leave a positive impression. :) (thanks Argo!)

If you want a good intro to this forum and what it's about, check out the threads in the Best of the Forum section. There's some excellent threads there.

As for the question that was aimed at me....

High-value/alpha men desire and appreciate high value, alpha females, just like alpha females seek out alpha males. Women who are outspoken, challenging, and engaging on ALL levels, not just sexual, will hold the interest of a true alpha male FAR better than a dull, quiet, girl with no mind or opinion of her own, or a low-self-esteem drama queen.

Just like alpha females don't want to waste their time with losers, alpha males don't want to waste their time on women who have little to offer and who cannot assert themselves when appropriate. Strong, assertive, yet caring women with dynamic personalities are highly attractive to high-value men who share the same qualities.

So by all means, don't be afraid to approach and number close a guy you like whenever you damn well feel like it. :) If he can't deal with your personality and honesty, then he's not right for you anyways.

[Argo navis]

Gaming the girl already, hmmmm Argo?
Great convo you have going here.


Yeah, poor girl, she has *that* problem - finding a match, it's a though one, calls on my compassion. And it's totally her fault :) because

High-value/alpha men desire and appreciate high value, alpha females, just like alpha females seek out alpha males. Women who are outspoken, challenging, and engaging on ALL levels, not just sexual, will hold the interest of a true alpha male FAR better than a dull, quiet, girl with no mind or opinion of her own, or a low-self-esteem drama queen.


PoisonSweetKiss dared - dared to have meaningful opinions about pickup and express them, which definitely gets both my respect and curiosity.

Within a bunch of posts, look at the wealth of informations spillt all around the thread! She totally compensates for the beer/cheeseburger budget :D

[PoisonSweetKiss]

Gaming the girl already, hmmmm Argo? ;)

...So by all means, don't be afraid to approach and number close a guy you like whenever you damn well feel like it. :) If he can't deal with your personality and honesty, then he's not right for you anyways.

Yes, the big, bad Argo is trying to seduce me! *runs behind azazels_wolf for protection* Hehehe

Yes, I think you are right there. At least my approaching could be like a screening method, almost a shit test. If someone isn't alpha enough to be feel comfortable about being approached then it's not likely i'm going to want to spend time with them.

Oh and can anyone suggest or recommend how I should approach? I mean direct vs indirect, kinds of openers, being aggressive about it or more subtle...?

Kisses
xxx

[Argo navis]

Scared of a little challenge already? You DO need a guardian angel honey, and I am gonna use you right now for a transition and an example.
(rule of thumb, don't come across as gross - ASD is a requirement of sorts for men to be comfortable with the "potentially carrying my genes" part of our instinct - we want to know you are sexual,
we just don't want to know with how many partners, and this works both ways)

Ca-li-br-at-e and adjust. Know who you are. It will tell you a lot about who you want. You can generally draw a diagram of the eight types of attractive males according to the following scheme (btw, from the discussion, I'd say you're in your early twenties, a bit younger even, 19 maybe, now, as far as men are concerned, the diagram) :

Dominant/Submissive on one axis - Lover/provider on the other.
"Mr" bad boy is a dominant/lover - he will be exciting and ring danger for women. "Mr" right is a dominant/provider - he will provide security and lead the interaction all the way through.

They respond differently : on the submissive side of the scale (artist/casanova) they will be very receptive to an outgoing girl and will welcome being controlled (they have no control of themselves generally) - or freak out.
On the dominant side of the scale, they'll bust your chops like there's no tomorrow and escalate further. So what you want is to tone it down for submissive ones, turn it up for dominants.

And if you feel you're ready for a ride, check this one : http://www.venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10116

As the title says, it's been there for questions like this. Next thing, I'll list a few flawless ways to identify these types of males... up to you to make your pick.

[PoisonSweetKiss]

Ok I understand the theory behind calibration now, and thats something I would do anyway. However, I can only calibrate so much when approaching a guy unless of course it's entirely indirect.

Um, yes I just turned 20 on the 16th :) Although, it does say that on my profile, so you dont get too much credit! ;) Is my age relevant to my game, or was that an oportunity for you to practice cold reading lol

kisses
xxx

[Argo navis]

:) Believe it or not, it was obvious - didn't check the profile and I only do weeks after "meeting" the person - because I don't want anything to bias my impression. I like a pure feeling first, and if I am interested, I look into more details.
But you make for niftey practice material yeah, I was interested in how fpuas could relate to, and use that "best of" thread.

You *feel* like exactly that age, wanting to know, daring to try, not giving too much of a damn about the specifics, and seeking for your adult persona - in spite of the maturity. Had you been a boy, I'd have said 23-24.

Happy birthday by the way.

From the get go, if you approach a guy with something less direct than... I don't know.. say a loud burp or a headbutt, and he doesn't flinch, it's a good sign. Within the first ten minutes, what you're looking for is a healthy self esteem : you certainly know part of that by now but...

- signs of ego (I and I and I did this and that) as opposed to signs of personality ring "insecure"
- a quick assesment of how he relates to his parents, especially to his mom, is important
- how he talks about his exes
- how he treats service persons - is how he will treat you when he gets familiar and comfortable with you (there is some implied "comfort" when we deal with service personel)

All these will give away wether the guy is comfortable with himself and women quick. In your case, I recommend direct - that outgoing at that age predicts a solid AFOG in a couple of years, so wimps, artists and the likes just won't cut it. Other than that, my little finger says you're self assured about your physical appearance (educated guess, are you blonde? That's intuition which I am testing here, haven't checked your profile) so go direct.

Emulate the body language of Jolies regardless of their level of self esteem.

Openers can be anything - much like openers for girls : "Aaaaaaahhhh so that's where you've been all this time. And what about that Martini you were about to offer me?" As if you had known the guy for ages, and you were the first prize. If he is mating material, he'll instantly be playful.

If questions about his childhood ("so you were your Mommy's boy?" à la David Shade), a casual compliment, questions about his exes do throw him off.. he is a next. A "no time to waste" kind of next.
Does it get any better?

[PoisonSweetKiss]

Go raibh maith agat! It was a happy birthday indeed! :)

The "best of" thread is applicable regardless of gender as long as the reader has a desire to change FOR THEMSELVES and not just to get laid or gain social acceptance. An inspiring story only moves those who wish to be inspired, no?

Hmm, those are indeed adequate means of measuring self esteem early in an interaction and, I admit, are not new to me. That's a pretty high standard for people around here to meet though and that is part of the reason why I intend to travel either when I finish my degree or if I decide to take a gap year.

No...I am not blonde, at least not anymore, and I'm going to assume that was a neg lol tsk tsk, bad boy... No, my hair is the colour of red wine at the minute. And I would say that I'm comfortable with my physical attractiveness, yes.

Now that we have got onto the topic of physical beauty, what is in your view, most attractive in a woman when it comes to clothes, make-up etc. My style of course is not in need of a change but it would be curious to know.

Also, I have noticed that having a strong identity is something heavily emphasised in the community and I assume that this is applicable to women too. Untill recently, I have found it difficult to really let my personality show to it's fullest extent due to a long ingrained shyness that I have been working on with great success. Any advice on that score?

Kisses
xxx

[Argo navis]

No...I am not blonde, at least not anymore, and I'm going to assume that was a neg lol tsk tsk, bad boy...


Mr. bad boy for you :) Rest assured it's not your hair I am interested in - but it's not exactly a neg, more like a.. private game between wolf and me. Anyway, glad you liked it.


My style of course is not in need of a change but it would be curious to know.


Like.. in case you'd incidentally travel to Switzerland? Me, I like ladies to entice through clothing and makeup. Too much makeup doesn't cut it, too much cleavage doesn't cut it. Ultimately, it has to show your personality. For examle, HBItalia, a girl of my past, had that very tight black top with a zipper in the middle the first time we met.

The fact the zipper was the only thing standing out of the black shape was a subtle invitation to unzipping it - which turned out to be a good idea. This is an example of "how to telegraph sexy without a square centimeter of cleavage."

..But the best clothes will be the clothes that make you feel amazingly beautiful, and allow you to express your feminity to the fullest. Could be jeans, could be anything as long as it's you.

Likewise :

I assume that this is applicable to women too. Untill recently, I have found it difficult to really let my personality show to it's fullest extent due to a long ingrained shyness that I have been working on with great success. Any advice on that score?


Due to the fertility instinct, physical beauty is a catch to men (more than for women). But a perfect 10 with no personality is a 5 and less. And the other way round. Yes : personality matters, if I wanted decorations for my flat, I'd grow orchids or something.

On shyness...
Screw typing my fingers off : pay me a visit when you get a chance, you need personal coaching for that one :) (but it totally relates to "finding who you are" - eg. switching to your adult persona and finding it is succesful,
stepping out of your comfort zone and daring slightly wilder things, so on and so forth..)

[azazels_wolf]

Poison:

The Venusian Arts / Mystery Method is mainly based on indirect approach, and indirect is often the best way to go when you're unsure how to calibrate or how well a direct approach would be received.... since indirect gives you time to interact, gauge the other person, and build attraction while having (at face value) a reason to talk that DOESN'T immediately involve flirting. This will result in lower defenses and less nervousness involved in the interaction.

Once you're proficient with indirect, or you have a strong feeling that a direct approach would be welcomed by a particular target, you can venture into more direct territory. If there's any uncertainty on your part, just go indirect, otherwise your subcommunications and first impressions may be off.

You also want to be on the lookout for IOIs and approach invitations, like eye contact, proximity, etc. If a guy is making it obvious that he has already noticed you and just isn't making the approach, then of course you can be more bold, since that's what he probably wants anyways.

Opinions on clothing and make-up really depend on the individual.... guys have different tastes in that regard, just like women do regarding men's fashion and style. So I'd say keep your intended targets in mind. I agree with Argo that you want to express your personality with your look, and feel comfortable doing it.

Also, if you prefer men with certain interests, or who belong to certain subcultures, then you'll want to emphasize that somehow. So for example, if you want to attract a goth, you might want to have a goth-friendly style. If you want to attract a cowboy type, project a country-western vibe, etc, etc. You see what I mean.

Indeed, men with strong identities will appreciate women with strong identities. Shyness often arises from fear of how you will be perceived... if you will be accepted or rejected. (See guys, women have AA and other fears like that too!) When you want to interact with another person, don't project your mind into the future or let your internal dialogue tell you about your insecurities. Focus on the NOW, on the present MOMENT, and how you can give value that will allow the other person to enjoy the interaction. If you have a negative thought, just stop that thought process and focus. Let your self-expression flow through you, and encourage the other person to also express themselves. People like to talk about themselves, so ask questions. If you are interested in the other person AS a person, you will be inherently interesting. Soon you'll find yourself in comfort and rapport, where it's obvious that you've been accepted because you accepted THEM... and the insecurity will pass.

I could go on, but that's enough windbagging for one comment I think. Hope that helps a bit. :)

[Argo navis]

Just want to add that this whole thread is a perfect example of how beneficial the integration of fpuas in the community can be - see how much there is to exchange, and how many similarities?

Thank you, Poison, and all girls who expressed themselves in this thread - please don't shy out : we do love you. And the whole point of the game should not be gratification as much as it should be about healthier boy/girl relationships.

I wish communities could merge at some point, it would be added value all the way and pleasure for all involved.

[PoisonSweetKiss]

Private game? *raises eyebrow*

Haha if I were travelling anywhere, it would be to Italy or somewhere, not Switzerland, even if there was a possibility of meeting "Mr" Badboy. And as for personal coaching, how exactly could you do that, I'm intrigued...But yes, I am doing more and more daring things to get myself out of my comfort zone and been doing so to great success so far. Just trying new things is the best tool I can recommend to make you more comfortable and confident in who you are. Only recently I have begun doing things that make me feel uncomfortable but which I have wanted to do, like wearing stockings and suspenders while on a night out ect.

Wolf:

Ah, i'm glad it focuses mainly on indirect approach, as the alternative just seems too masculine for me. Even when I am receiving numerous IOIs from a guy, my approaching him, even indirectly seems to scare them. And i'm talking about something really indirect like asking where the nearest art gallery is or directions! Then again, perhaps I simply haven't got the hang of approaching just yet...

With regard to clothes and make-up, you told me exacly what I wanted and expected to hear! I've always disliked over-exposure of the flesh and much prefer to tease and suggest. Also, I go for elegance.

And as for strong identities, that's great advice and your tip of disregardling negative thoughts, though difficult, is something I will actively attempt.

Kisses
xxx

[Doctor D]

I don't think you necessarily scare them, unless your doing something way out of the ordinary. Probably more so catching them off guard. I don't think most men are use to being approached by women and don't know how to react accordingly.

I think women can use a modified version of MM, but not the exact formula. Remember this was written by men for men. MM is based on Mystery's and other peoples theories on how WOMEN think and react to men approaching them. I'm not so sure how well the neg theory can work or how well social pre-selection can work. Just a word of caution. Also, I am too lazy to read the whole thread so I'm not sure if this was already stated :o

[PoisonSweetKiss]

Thanks Doctor D for your views. You are right, the method needs a serious modification if it is to be applicable to women interacting with men, but I think what it represents and it's essence can be put to good use, i.e. breaking social interation down into it's elements, experimenting, and seeing what works best. The method teaches us to think of social interactions intelligently and encourages understanding, not just the running of various patterns or whatever. In this respect, I think MM is still applicable to me.

I think you are right about my catching guys off gaurd when i'm approaching them. Like I mentioned earlier, the guys here seem to be particularly AFC, where even the most alpha guy isn't confident enough to be comfortable being approached by a woman (particularly an attractive one) and even act suspicious, like it's all a joke or something!

kisses
xxx

[Argo navis]

Private game? *raises eyebrow*


:) Nono, not that kind of game, you silly! We actually had a talk a few days ago about how far intuition, pure intuition, not technique, could go. But that's out of scope for the time being. Nuff said on my side until the next episode..

[Smurk]

Argo-Navy-I respect the frames you've set up dude, are you very much like this in field?

You have a clean cut people sense. That'll take you far no matter what you say.

As for Poison, i like how a girl makes me feel.(i've had to develop this,it was just Boobs,Booty, and Boners.err)

I realized having standards and having people meet them was something i wanted in life.

[azazels_wolf]

^^^ Yeah, like Argo said. When I'm really in state, my intuition can tell me a lot about people and the best way to interact with them, as opposed to logically trying to figure out the next move. I've found that this same intuitive method can work reallly well online too... it's possible to detect and predict a lot of things about people online without them saying anything directly. It goes beyond cold reading.... I find it quite fascinating and it has served me well.

Only recently I have begun doing things that make me feel uncomfortable but which I have wanted to do, like wearing stockings and suspenders while on a night out ect.


Yeah, the more often you peacock, the more comfortable you'll get doing it. It'll just become a natural part of expressing your identity... I find myself almost always wearing something peacocky now, just cuz I want to and it makes me feel good.


Ah, i'm glad it focuses mainly on indirect approach, as the alternative just seems too masculine for me. Even when I am receiving numerous IOIs from a guy, my approaching him, even indirectly seems to scare them. And i'm talking about something really indirect like asking where the nearest art gallery is or directions! Then again, perhaps I simply haven't got the hang of approaching just yet...


Many guys, especially your age, are extremely insecure and unsure how to talk to girls. So you need to somehow communicate that you accept them and want them to open up to you. A friendly smile and some questions to encourage conversation can help with that. Don't be surprised if you're doing most of the talking for the first couple minutes. The trick is to get him comfortable with opening his mouth. ;)

I think Doctor D may be right about being taken off guard. Also, keep in mind that a big part of the approach and how it will be received is BODY LANGUAGE. If your words convey disinterest but your body language is saying "LOOK AT ME: I'M NEEDY, NERVOUS, AND REALLY INTERESTED!" then you'll be really incongruent, and your subcoms will override anything you're saying. So make sure that your body language is casual, non-needy, and friendly - and don't forget a disarming smile!


With regard to clothes and make-up, you told me exacly what I wanted and expected to hear! I've always disliked over-exposure of the flesh and much prefer to tease and suggest. Also, I go for elegance.


Yeah, nothing wrong with that! Skimpy clothes aren't necessary, especially if you don't feel comfortable with them.


And as for strong identities, that's great advice and your tip of disregardling negative thoughts, though difficult, is something I will actively attempt.


It takes practice, like learning a new habit and discarding the old. But it pays off! Your thoughts create your reality, in more ways than one.

Also, the Mystery Method is designed to take a woman through her natural stages of courtship, from meeting to seduction. So much of it still applies... you just need to understand WHY and HOW it works in order to apply it from your perspective, rather than just blindly following a formula. Once you see that, you'll see aspects of the MM in the vast majority of social interactions, if you look for it. (And women have taken bootcamps with great success, too!)

[PoisonSweetKiss]

Yeah, I never actually thought of my wearing my stockings as peacocking, it was more something I did for myself to feel the power I have as a woman. I guess that's the essence of peacocking, though: wearing outrageous things that show your personality rather than just because they are outrageous and attention seeking. Congruence is what is important. Skimpy clothing is ok, i'm comfortable in them, though I'm not too fond of them. It's just AFC attention that is irritating, you know? I don't know about other girls, but wolf whistles are intimidating! lol I get so uncomfortable.

Body language is something that I have been giving a lot of thought to recently. I've managed to limit the impression of nervousness, which was an issue before, but that was really my only issue. Also, because i'm new to approaching and mainly do so during the day, I approach anyone, regardless of whether or not I find them attractive, so it's not my approach that's necessarily wrong, but my ability to make people feel at ease with me immediately. Any tips on how to do this?

Kisses
xxx

[Argo navis]

Smurk, to adress your question, I am exactly like this in field and in life. My interest for people is genuine, my desire and curiosity about ladies is genuine - which makes for interesting exchange all the way, every day. I am far from being perfect, flawless, and I am accepting my flaws, embracing them, and letting go of all apprehensions to inject positivity in everything I do.

Ditto about intuition wolf (and the rest) - I'd play "educated guess" further, just not right now, things are hectic and the counterpart of this way to be is a fair amount of real life people who count on me at the moment.

PK : it is your perception of an adversity which causes the adversity. People are often at ease with me instantly - to the point of telling me way too much way too early -
due to genuinely showing interest in them. There is no such thing as a glass wall preventing people from trusting you, at least, as long as there is none on your mind -
but if you focus on that, it becomes very real (hands-on version : go in field and practice, or take it one step at a time and get a job which forces you to meet a LOT of men - clerk for a gym or something like that)

[PoisonSweetKiss]

Ah, synchronicities...I just got offered and accepted a job yesterday as a hostess for an events promotion company, where i essentially get paid to go to a club event and approach as many people as possible and generally have a good time :) I will have lots of practice!

Kisses
xxx

[Argo navis]

Ah, synchronicities.

Yeah, synchronicities, intuitions, all things a method can't quite nail ;)

Happy sarging girl and if you want to truely explore yourself and life further, you know where to find me. What I mentioned about anti-shyness coaching? Words alone can convey that just as well as they can explain intuitions and coincidences, you have to get a feel for yourself.

[azazels_wolf]

Yeah, I never actually thought of my wearing my stockings as peacocking, it was more something I did for myself to feel the power I have as a woman. I guess that's the essence of peacocking, though: wearing outrageous things that show your personality rather than just because they are outrageous and attention seeking.


Sure - it serves the dual purpose of expressing your identity and drawing attention at the same time. Plus, if your peacocking item has a story behind it, you can launch right into the story if someone asks about it.


Congruence is what is important. Skimpy clothing is ok, i'm comfortable in them, though I'm not too fond of them. It's just AFC attention that is irritating, you know? I don't know about other girls, but wolf whistles are intimidating! lol I get so uncomfortable.


Yeah, a lot of girls are uncomfortable with that... cuz it seems threatening and disrespectful at the same time. I've known a good number of girls that do not dress skimpy so they can avoid the wolf whistles and the AFCs staring down their cleavage.... they feel more empowered being able to choose who is worthy of seeing what. If the man proves he is high value first, THEN he is allowed to see (and get) more. Frankly, if a man isn't interested in you when you're not wearing a bikini, then you probably won't be interested in him either. :)


Body language is something that I have been giving a lot of thought to recently. I've managed to limit the impression of nervousness, which was an issue before, but that was really my only issue. Also, because i'm new to approaching and mainly do so during the day, I approach anyone, regardless of whether or not I find them attractive, so it's not my approach that's necessarily wrong, but my ability to make people feel at ease with me immediately. Any tips on how to do this?


Argo has some great points about this... your mindset and expectations WILL play a big role in how you will be perceived, and the subcoms you will project. So you obviously want to approach with the inner attitude that you ARE extremely likeable and can easily put people at ease and help them have a good time.

There could also be an element of suspicion involved, as in "what does she want from me?" or if you ask a question they're not sure how to answer (for example, not everyone is good at giving directions!) then that could bring some discomfort. So make your opener seem natural, without requiring too much effort from the response at first.

Other things that put people at ease are:
-Men usually want their egos reinforced - don't be afraid to compliment them early on, and periodically afterwards!
-A friendly smile
-Making them laugh (humor is great for breaking the ice)
-A false time constraint (like "I have to get back to my friends, but..." or "I was just going to ____ in a minute, but...."
-Leaning back and giving them enough personal space
-Looking over your shoulder and standing sideways (instead of creating a physical "fight or flight"/confrontational reaction by standing chest to chest, for example)
-Making appropriate eye contact (about 50% of the time at first... don't stare at them!)
-"Us vs. them"/conspiracy - making observations about the surrounding environment and people
-Using a gentle and friendly, yet self-assured tone of voice
-Projecting good and positive vibes/energy/feelings AT them
-Rewarding their initial response with positive reinforcement

Hope that helps :)

[PoisonSweetKiss]

Wow, Wolf that's quite a lot of information! Thank you! I will definitely attempt to put these tips to good use :D

Kisses
xxx

[azazels_wolf]

You're welcome! :) Best of luck!

[asab204]

hey all,
so yeah it's been a minute since I last checked out this particular post. welcome PSK thanks for the invite via PM me for the womens community I want to sign up but am still unsure just how useful that community is since this one is VERY insightful. I also love the questions you asked as well as the answers that Argo and Azzels these two guys I love reading their thoughts/ reviews/ insight that they have.

these dudes rock. chock-ful-o-pua-info.
I haven't been in the community for too long myself. still trying to get acclimated here as well. I need to read TMM and TG, just college work has been crazy but I get the entire month of june off and so it's either work or go pick up and ofcourse make time to read both of these books.

I am interested in furthering my training; especially with Matador. I like him. he's not just physically my type but he's very intelligent and I feel that though many of the VA instructors would do a good job I want the best and I feel that matador and mystery are the best. I have heard rave reviews of lovedrop though.

my best advice is if you can't do a bootcamp anytime soon, just read all you can post questions here to the guys and go out and work on pick up more.

I am right there with you on the whole skimpy outfit thing. I am a woman. I have a woman's body so yeah my breasts don't fit right in the skimpy tops. I am also top heavy so that's even worse. I am not a "twig" either, I just wear clothes that fit my persona....I am very free spirited and so that is conveyed through my jeans, tank top/tee shirt, flip-flop, powder, mascara, blistex wearing self.
I am who I am. No apologies. I am a strong alpha woman. I seek strong alpha men. I like the muscular armed/slightly cushoned stomach type of men versus the thin/not so toned guys, I want someone I can be aggresive with and not feel like I should be wary of breaking any of their bones. I am not rough by any means I just like men that I can sometimes dominate when I feel the need to do so... IE: in the bedroom

I am also a hopeless romantic so I want to believe that guys just already "know" what a women wants, that's just not the case I am realistic too! just like I have no clue at times what a guy is thinking he may not know what I am thinking either.

alrighty well that's it for me now. please let's continue this thread I am so very much enjoying the posts.

[azazels_wolf]

Hey asab, glad you've been enjoying this! :) I'm sometimes amazed too at the sheer amount of interesting and relevant information and thought that ends up in some of the threads on this forum. It's pretty awesome so long as everyone remains friendly and respectful.

I think a really important aspect of pickup and social dynamics in general is effective communication, both self-expression and proper listening. If both a man and a woman can communicate effectively to each other in that regard, they will come to understand each other and their desires perfectly well. :) It can take quite a bit of work and dedication. But that's where self-improvement and caring about your partner come in!

I do highly recommend that anyone on this forum read The Mystery Method... you'll have a much greater understanding of many of the subjects talked about here if you do. The Best of the Forum section also has some great stuff. :)

If you've got any specific questions, just drop them here or create your own thread, and someone will certainly be able to answer them. Enjoy!

[PoisonSweetKiss]

Thanks asab :)

I agree, this community is very insightful, in fact much more so than the forum I reccommended but it is new and as far as i'm aware it is the only forum for women, aimed at women picking up men using such methods as MM. Since there is no other material we are developing our own theories and field-testing them, form the very beginning, but taking an analytical approach and incorporating as much MM etc into it as possible so interactions are broken down into their elemental components.

Hmm I must admit, I have never considered taking a bootcamp. I guess I assumed that there would be little for a woman to learn unless she intended to pick up women. Also, I live in Ireland where there are very very little PUAs, let alone mPUAs in order to hold a bootcamp!

Well good luck with college!

Kisses
xxx

[asab204]

PSK- you should *try* to get a bootcamp in the states. or europe, I know that the va guys are in England now and are doing a bootcamp there. just keep yourself updated on the contact info.

yeah I dont' think I much care for the other forum. I dont' believe in making the PU community free of other sexes. I mean that's just not right. how would we feel if VA decided that they don't want women on the forum? pretty pisssed right? well the other community is still in development atleast let guys post if they want to as long as they aren't derogatory then what's wrong with boys posting?

also they wanted a specific code for me to join and I don't need to do that with this forum, along with the founder/moderator wanting a pic of me no thanks that's just freaky the guys here have never asked for my pic. maybe one day after I do a bootcamp and actually hangout with other PUAs then I will post a pic but until then no.

ok so on another note, I also agree with Azazels about bringing the community of women and men together to better our selves and to learn more and grow as humans. sounds like we'd be friends. I don't have any questions yet but when I do I will let you know.

alright well I got to get going...gotta work...love being a server I can pick up men while getting paid to serve them....hehe

[PoisonSweetKiss]

I completely agree. Unfortunately I am not the moderator and as such have no control over who is accepted and who isnt. As for the code if you needed a reference i could give it to you), that's not necessary and as for the picture, neither is that. The moderator needs to make sure you are a woman via facebook, myspace etc, not need to know what you look like. Also, the reason it is women only is so the female equivalent of AFCs are not put off by men being brutally honest. It happens. I''ve seen women driven off forums and shunned help by such comments as "Why do chicks need PU, all they have to do is look hot and get their tits out..." Fortunately, this forum isn't so bad and I personally have been fortunate enough to have had a warm reception (thanks guys ;))

But if you don't feel comfortable in a female orientated environment, that's fair enough and though your input would no doubt have been appreciated, I understand.

I hope your college stuff goes well and keep up with the pick-up! hehe

Kisses
xxx

[Ghostwolf]

Very difficult to pull off.

Men think with their replication in mind during their mating rituals.

Women think with future survival and the social status of the male in mind.

If a master female PUA were to exist, she would need to overcome two inherent obstacles:

a) She would need to be attractive by default, or bypass her lack of it.

b) She would need to dodge around being a "slutty wanton girl", since guys are often turned off by lack of resistance.

I personally would be worried if a 10 I opened to showed no resistance.

Not only is it not a challenge, but pokes the paranoid in me.

--Wolf

[azazels_wolf]

I should point out a couple of things:

Very difficult to pull off.


Not really. I've seen it done....



If a master female PUA were to exist, she would need to overcome two inherent obstacles:

a) She would need to be attractive by default, or bypass her lack of it.


Not all men are attracted to all women, just like not all women are attracted to all men. Your HB might be someone else's not-so-HB. The point isn't whether or not a female PUA can attract all men, or if she's "attractive by default"... it's whether or not she can attract most of HER TARGETS with success.


b) She would need to dodge around being a "slutty wanton girl", since guys are often turned off by lack of resistance.

I personally would be worried if a 10 I opened to showed no resistance.


Many female PUAs do some pretty intense qualification of the men they pick. They don't play "no resistance".... they wait to see if the man is worthy of them, just like a male PUA doesn't show real interest until he has qualified the girl and she has met his standards. Female PUAs can have some pretty high standards too. Just because she opens you doesn't mean she's going to want to drag you to bed right away. She'll know how to turn YOU on, but if you turn her OFF she'll just move on.

[asab204]

AW- will you marry me? :D

[azazels_wolf]

AW- will you marry me? :D



Hahahahahahahahahahaha OMG! :D And I'm not even TRYING! :D



Hrmmmmm..... give me some time to chew on that one. ;) I'm not so easily tempted, after all.....

[Ghostwolf]

Again, its quite difficult.

Men are creatures of visual input and body language, where women are creatures of auditory input and body language.

This dramatic difference means the female PUA will need to devise a yet uninvented method of both visually creating higher value, as well as keep her composure and frame within a given setting.

Regardless of her qualification standards, their game will play by different rules than our game.

It's like comparing rugby to football (soccer for you Americans).

Yes obviously there are superficial similarities, such as a ball and grass on the field, but if you begin examining the intricacies, then you see that the female game is exponentially more difficult.

Remember Style's epiphany about women in "The Game". No matter what you do, they are beings who one way or another give you permission to conquer her. Sure you might claim that PUA-style fake permissions and arousals might be a female "game" but isn't it just being female anyways?

Paradoxical no?

--Wolf

[PoisonSweetKiss]

I understand what you mean Ghostwolf.

Of course it's natural to assume that since it's never been achieved before and because men are aroused by visual stimulation, that definite techniques for attraction and seduction can't be formed. But surely that's what men and women alike said when the concept of PU was introduced in it's current state: a learned skill, and one that was not necessarily an innate ability.

Never have I believed that the MM or any other method could be applied in it's entirety to women picking up men. Negs, for example, may not be effective because, from a woman it would come off as a shit test or just being plain bitchy. Also, things like the cube and other "chick-crack" may not be as effective because men don't tend to find this type of thing as interesting (am I wrong?).

However, the ESSENCE and spirit of PU can be distilled and new patterns and techniques CAN be formed. They would be very different but the underlying principles would be the same. One fundamental aspect of PU teaches that if something isn't working, it's YOU in which the fault lies. Self-improvement, not only with regard to appearance but with body language, confidence, voice tonality, perseverance and of course, social skills in general, is not only encouraged but NECESSARY. Another fundamental aspect of PU is that of trial and error, of social experimentation and exploration, the breaking down of interactions into their elemental components.

This can all work AS MUCH to a womans benefit as to a mans.

With regard to a man being attracted by visual stimuli, there are ways in which women can manipulate their body language (a VISUAL thing) that can make her more attractive and there are even things she can do to increase physical attraction.

Further teachings that can be taken from PU are such things as sexual escalation, e.g. triangular gazing, and also kino escalation. Of particular note, most of the inner game stuff transcends gender.

Well I could rant on for ages on this, but I have an exam to study for tomorrow. Thank you for your comments Ghostwolf, they are appreciated because they show that you are trying to understand and therefore accept what we fPUA are doing. :D

Kisses
xxx

[Argo navis]

Ditto PSK. You're pretty smart..

for a blonde. that is. :) I agree on the "so, it's never been achieved and what?" bit and really - I mean really. A hot babe, physically, is a turn on. I get picky. Pickier by the day. GRANTED.

But personality is key for women too - a hot babe who has none gets nothing by me because of the picky factor, knowing I can easilly have another one equivalent in looks or better, what remains?

Substance. And probably what really matters in the end.

[PoisonSweetKiss]

I AM NOT BLONDE! lol :P

Kisses
xxx

[asab204]

not so easily tempted? I find that hard to believe. You are male and I am female come on temptation is what keeps the male wanting the female and vise versa, no?

on to something other than you....I agree with both PSK and AN. wolf makes some type of sense but still I don't feel that he understands that though PU is a trait to learn, it may come in various forms not just from a male or a female but also in social interations with a mixed group. I may not be picking up my boss when I talk to him but I still get IOI's from him. I also may not be picking up my girlfriends but I get IOI's from them too. I can use pick up as a form of socializing not just to go out and get laid. which is NOT the reason I got into PU anyway. My body language conveys much for visual people and my voice conveys much for the auditory people. It's my tone and my body language that help me most with PU.

BTW-Argo Navis- I don't think that PSK is blonde, I think she is very smart. And even if she is blonde she's still very smart. stop trying to pick her up. she's after all a PUA too ya know. :D

[Argo navis]

Asab, I'll blame it on age this time around : it's all fun and games ALL the time - We've actually been casually chit chatting and exchanging views since then as with many people around. Another lesson for you : do NOT assume anything, test things (in communication).

I am certain she totally takes the joke - and she's the one trying to pick me up anyhow :)

In other words (a friendly slap, episode 2)... what's with such a poignant post about social PUA interactions to trash it yourself by going wild about "the right to blondeness of girl b?". For starters, cliches suck.

Then, I don't give a damn wether she HAS hair for that matter - I much more appreciate her wit and "willingness" to test things. So here's your second lesson for today : go to the previous page, and re-read what I said about SUBSTANCE. At my age and mileage, I don't see the point in communicating blandly when someone is paying me the courtesy of a challenge - this applies anywhere to anyone. Except you now.. until you make up for that bossiness and humor lapse to me :)

(and don't even get me started about what "wine colored hair" could possibly mean, hmm? No fuchsia either for today...)
(BTW, if anyone else failed to see how cutely FAKE mad PSK was, and that I hold no grudge against blondes but instead respect intelligence
where it is, report asap for tar and feathers)

[asab204]

Argo Navis- honey I was just joking. relax don't worry I am in on the whole convo ya'll have had during this entire thread. I was just kidding around, don't assume I meant it to be bossy. I wasn't trashing the "right of blondeness" I was just saying don't judge a book by it's cover so to speak.

you want humor? ok then shall we start exchanging jokes? cause I got some but they are mostly blonde jokes.....hehe

[azazels_wolf]

Again, its quite difficult.

Men are creatures of visual input and body language, where women are creatures of auditory input and body language.

This dramatic difference means the female PUA will need to devise a yet uninvented method of both visually creating higher value, as well as keep her composure and frame within a given setting.


You make it sound like it's unheard of, but it's not...

Also, many PUAs whose peacocking and body language are effective find themselves frequently opened by women. They find many of these women attractive and proceed right into A2 or A3 because they decide they're worth gaming. Have you ever done this? In a sense, she did part of the pickup for you. And you didn't reject her just because she had the courage and strength of personality to open you and strike up a conversation.

If you were an AFC, and these women would have known the Venusian Arts, and continued the process to its natural end, these women would have seduced you, plain and simple. In fact, to the women who DID open YOU, not knowing you were a Venusian Artist, from THEIR perspective they probably felt that they seduced YOU.



Remember Style's epiphany about women in "The Game". No matter what you do, they are beings who one way or another give you permission to conquer her. Sure you might claim that PUA-style fake permissions and arousals might be a female "game" but isn't it just being female anyways?


Ah, but isn't true male "game" just being a high-value natural anyways?


Negs, for example, may not be effective because, from a woman it would come off as a shit test or just being plain bitchy.


You're right, most negs from women ARE shit tests. *grin* You have to look at one of the main reasons why a male USES negs - to disarm the bitch shield. Most men don't have a "bitch shield" when opened by a woman, in which case there's no need for a neg. It's not that that part of the method doesn't WORK.... MISAPPLICATION of the method doesn't work.


Also, things like the cube and other "chick-crack" may not be as effective because men don't tend to find this type of thing as interesting (am I wrong?).


In general, that's correct. A small percentage of men do find these things interesting, particularly if they're studying psychology, personality, or esotericism. However, if you want to appeal to the majority of men, you would want to focus on LOGIC oriented topics, instead of those that are EMOTION-based. You can probably dig into emotional stuff later on with success, once in deep comfort or beyond, but most men don't want to go there so soon, and some avoid it entirely because they don't really understand it. (But I do recommend that you qualify a man for some emotional intelligence and understanding, otherwise it's like talking to half a person and can make things very dull or frustrating.)


However, the ESSENCE and spirit of PU can be distilled and new patterns and techniques CAN be formed. They would be very different but the underlying principles would be the same. One fundamental aspect of PU teaches that if something isn't working, it's YOU in which the fault lies. Self-improvement, not only with regard to appearance but with body language, confidence, voice tonality, perseverance and of course, social skills in general, is not only encouraged but NECESSARY. Another fundamental aspect of PU is that of trial and error, of social experimentation and exploration, the breaking down of interactions into their elemental components.

This can all work AS MUCH to a womans benefit as to a mans.


That's a great way to put it. :)


With regard to a man being attracted by visual stimuli, there are ways in which women can manipulate their body language (a VISUAL thing) that can make her more attractive and there are even things she can do to increase physical attraction.

Further teachings that can be taken from PU are such things as sexual escalation, e.g. triangular gazing, and also kino escalation. Of particular note, most of the inner game stuff transcends gender.


Yes! Women certainly do have ways to get extra attention and arousal from men, above and beyond their first-impression appearance. Thank you for clarifying that.

In fact, I've seen situations in which guys meet a new girl, and don't take much notice of her at first....but after they've spent several hours together in a social context, he's definitely ready to jump into bed with her....

PUAs are often skeptical about this because they are constantly choosing their targets, being in an ACTIVE role... but remember, most men are still AFCs, and would LOVE to have the opportunity for a woman to seduce them.


not so easily tempted? I find that hard to believe. You are male and I am female come on temptation is what keeps the male wanting the female and vise versa, no?


Ah, but as Mystery says, "I don't know you from a hole in the wall."

But I really do appreciate your expressions of appreciation for me, and I thank you for that. :)

And I definitely agree that what you learn about social dynamics will apply to so many other situations in your life, as a woman too. And high-value men appreciate high-value, self-aware women who understand what they're doing and why. Learning this stuff can only HELP you in meeting the men you really want.

[Argo navis]

Righto, I've so been coaching (someone) out of LSE that the kid gloves got stuck somehow.

*Rips kid gloves off, grabs asab, and starts a major spanking session before three thousands of Venusian Art visitors*. For the fun of it.

[PoisonSweetKiss]

Azzazels_wolf: Thank you! I'm glad my input is not only appreciated but understood and respected! You spoke of qualifying. Have you any suggestions as to how I would achieve this? I'm not familiar with the concept.

Argo Navis: How dare you try to reframe! I am not trying to pick you up! haha And to think I trusted you as advisor and instructor....the betrayal is too much... And as for my hair, it is the colour of that really dark, red wine at the minute (naturally light brown). As to the relevance of such information, I am at a but whatever...

Asab: Thank you for sticking up for me! :D It's much appreciated. It's kind of cute that they are treating us like practice hehe Oh, and I'd like to hear some of those blonde jokes! lol

Kisses
xxx

[Argo navis]

:) You know you're about as credible as that picture when you try to reframe it back on me? Complete with the eyelashes and all.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/41/110472920_a7193bee55.jpg

With this in mind... I had told you not to get me started on fuchsia and wine and other colourful concepts.. you've opened up the can of worms :D Now they're all out on the floor. The truth about red wine hair and marketting (or at least a kind of cynical humor that makes me laugh hard).

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=fashion

[PoisonSweetKiss]

Awww! I wish I could look as sweet as puss in boots lol sooo cute!

Haha that guy was so right. That was aobut red lipstick though, not red hair :)

Kisses
xxx

[asab204]

Argo Navis-- STOP spanking me....I do not roll that way. AT ALL.
PSK- this blonde in a row boat in the middle of a corn feild is rowing and rowing and not getting anywhere, this other blonde in a nice sports car goes for a ride in the country side and sees this. This pisses her off she stop her car and gets out yells to the blode in the row boat "it's blonde's like you that give blonde's like me a bad name, if I new how to swim I would kick your ass"
AW- I like you. you are great. unlike someone on here.....

[PoisonSweetKiss]

hehehe 'tis good!

Kisses
xxx

[Argo navis]

Righto, me I'll only respond to "your awesomness" from this point on. And while we're at it, you forgot to say please once again :)

(every woman in the world loves some spanking by the way, David Shade has a lot to share about that, some ladies just do not happen to know - yet. But rest assured I won't get in the way of your trying to pick up Wolf, it's endearing...)
(pats asab on the head with the male whore smile (tm) on his face).

[asab204]

your awesomeness? WTF? whatever dude. your cool to learn from but come on, you truly don't expect me to refer to you as that do you? Argo navis you my dear are just too cute for words. I am not trying to pick up wolf by any means.

endearingly looks at both AN and AW with my *would I do that?* face. hehe.

Yup works everytime. suckers.:eek:

[Argo navis]

you truly don't expect me to refer to you as that do you?


Nope I don't, of course not. These are amazing days for me so the rare times I am around, expect me to get a bit wilder at a time, hopefully, never hurtful.

With you asab, maybe due to my english (limited eventhough..), I am hardly sure how much offense you do - really - take. I didn't mean any. I am playing around (and just paying you back the same challenge you gave me) - but you really have that "serious" thing covered, you'd remind me of some high school teachers at time.

PSK on the other hand so totally feels like she is giggling - she can't be MAD. She can be FAKE mad.

I am glad girls like you are around and playing the game in all possible ways. You both have regularly offered great input, with a subtle feminine touch and an open mindedness which is really appreciated. Let this be a tongue-in-cheek-less post for this (re)statement. Will a hug do? *hugs asab and wanders off for a while..*

[azazels_wolf]

Azzazels_wolf: Thank you! I'm glad my input is not only appreciated but understood and respected! You spoke of qualifying. Have you any suggestions as to how I would achieve this? I'm not familiar with the concept.


Qualification is the last part of attraction phase. It's where you start to demonstrate interest in the target by making them communicate to YOU WHY you should be attracted to them, why they are worthy of your attention... and the reason needs to go beyond looks. (However, males DO like to receive compliments on their looks, so I think that's one thing that differs for you here.)

Sometimes they will do this of their own accord, but sometimes you need to initiate it by asking leading questions. If you want someone adventurous, you could ask "Are you adventurous?" If they say yes, you can give them a hoop to jump through to prove it.

Sometimes you'll have to lead the qualification, according to what you're looking for.

One of Mystery's lines is: "Beauty is common. Less common are a good energy, a great personality, and a positive outlook. You've got 2 of the 3." If they try to convince you that they've got these, then they have qualified themselves.

You can also qualify according to your interests and what you'd want to be able to share with them. So you can ask something like "You'd better like _____ or do ______ otherwise I don't think we're gonna get along."

As for qualifying a man on his emotional intelligence, you need to figure out what you're looking for and then test him on it. This could be done in all sorts of ways. I'll leave that up to you. :) I think women do this subconsciously a lot of the time, though.


AW- I like you. you are great. unlike someone on here.....


LOL. Thank you! :D You're pretty cool yourself.

And to reiterate what Argo said - the wildman indeed never means to offend and he's really quite awesome once you get to know him. If you can tolerate his humor and rough play. ;)

[asab204]

Argo- honey ofcourseI know that you are just joking around. that's what I meant when I said that. and yes hugs are always welcomed with me. I love to be hugged, it's nice to have man arms around me. Thanks for hugging me. please come back and do that again sometime.

Wolf- you think I'm cool? sweet. I can tolerate alot of things especially humor and maybe some rough play.

where are you guys if not in the US? I know psk is in ireland---so jealous--I am in Atlanta GA, where are you both at?

[Ghostwolf]

This is all for naught. It's a nice fantasy sure... But all for naught nonetheless.

An unattractive woman can never DHV or qualify a man without increasing her attractiveness. Since men are by nature 80% physical beings and 20% percent character-driven, the female PUA has only 20% of leeway to work during her seduction.

You're all talking as if the female can somehow influence her physical appearance and grooming by DHVs and qualifications, approaches and routines... You know this to be false.

Here's a simpler explanation for you, I often call it the EAPS theory back here in Turkey for my pupils:

A guy has the score 5 in looks and 10 in PUA skills (Style's L.A.S.V.E.G.A.S. in general). Since women give 80% to personality and charisma, and 20% to looks, he is effectively a 9 to her. (5x0.2 + 10x0.8)

A woman also has 5 in looks and 10 in PUA skills. BUT since men give 80% to looks, and 20% for the rest, she is effectively a 6 for him. (5x0.8 + 10x0.2)

This is the hard-wired, harcore truth of evolution.

This is why women will have a far harder time in the art of pickup.


*Note: Naturally anything done despite the sheer difficulty of it deserves respect. So any female PUAs out there, succeeding despite the odds, well hats off to you :)

--Wolf

[Argo navis]

Ghostbloke, I didn't understand or follow some bits of this discussion obviously, but, you're cute too. Somehow. What the hell is with maths regarding relationships?

I see a lot of gorgeous ladies - quite a few are involved with me on a romantic level. Some ladies are beauties who are empty enside. To me, the immediate effect of this is : "there is little to no potential for a truely developed sexuality with her".

So you can put a top model in my bed, if she is bland or stupid, there's just no way Jimmy will get up. No Viagra, no red bull, no chemistry, nothing.

For the rest, I don't want to discuss the specifics of your interesting computations. You keep the calculator, and I'll handle the ladies, fair enough?

[asab204]

good to know that no matter what guys like a woman for her personality too. well maybe not ghostwolf, but he's not interesting enough for me to care...hehe

[azazels_wolf]

Ghostwolf:


An unattractive woman can never DHV or qualify a man without increasing her attractiveness. Since men are by nature 80% physical beings and 20% percent character-driven, the female PUA has only 20% of leeway to work during her seduction.


You keep forgetting that beauty and physical attraction is relative, even for men. A girl that you may consider a 6 may be another man's 8, in his eyes. Just because a particular female PUA couldn't attract YOU by looks, doesn't mean that she would fail with other targets. Just think about all the guys you've known that have gfs and wives that you personally don't find attractive?


You're all talking as if the female can somehow influence her physical appearance and grooming by DHVs and qualifications, approaches and routines... You know this to be false.


For some guys, a girl who is smart and dynamic is much sexier overall than a walking blow-up doll that can't open her mouth or be adventurous.

And why are you even assuming that female PUAs are necessarily unattractive, without even seeing what they look like? That's a big assumption. Just because a girl is beautiful doesn't mean she has the social awareness and skills to meet the men she really wants, or that high-value men approach her.


good to know that no matter what guys like a woman for her personality too. well maybe not ghostwolf, but he's not interesting enough for me to care...hehe


A good lesson for the guys in the peanut gallery, I think. :)

[asab204]

yay for peanuts...the cartoon or the actual nut they are both good. and who doesn't like galleries? get the two together and you could have one grand ole time. sorry just felt like posting that. hehe.

[azazels_wolf]

yay for peanuts...the cartoon or the actual nut they are both good. and who doesn't like galleries? get the two together and you could have one grand ole time. sorry just felt like posting that. hehe.

Sounds more like a circus to me! But then again, this forum does resemble a circus at times... dancing monkeys and all! ;)

[asab204]

ok dancing monkeys is going abit far now isn't it? so wolf how are you? for that matter what's up with no more posts here in this thread? I want answers I say. tell me all and anything just tell me...ahhhhhh*looks around to see if anybody can help** sadly looks down and realizes that nobody knows what to say or do* and then leaves.

[azazels_wolf]

ok dancing monkeys is going abit far now isn't it?


Am I being too cruel? :eek: :D
Just wait until I take out my sharp objects....I can probably find a whip somewhere around here too..... hrmmmmm *rummages*

In case you didn't know, "dancing monkey" is a PUA term for someone who attempts to be entertaining, but accomplishes little else because he gets pigeonholed by his audience into simply being used for their amusement. Just like people gathering around to watch a dancing circus monkey and laughing and pointing their finger.


so wolf how are you? for that matter what's up with no more posts here in this thread? I want answers I say. tell me all and anything just tell me...ahhhhhh*looks around to see if anybody can help** sadly looks down and realizes that nobody knows what to say or do* and then leaves.

I'm pretty good, thank you. :) How are you?

Ah, but isn't everyone ultimately looking for answers? Some answers can never be given without asking the right questions first.

[PoisonSweetKiss]

Ok here is a question for you.

I'm finding it difficult transitioning from opener, into deeper or less superficial conversation. Not necessarily for comfort but to change topic. Now, I know I can't topic jump too much but I also need to speak about something other than the opener in order to make the conversation stick.

Is there anything anyone can reccommend that would help make it easier?

Kisses
xxx

[Ghostwolf]

good to know that no matter what guys like a woman for her personality too. well maybe not ghostwolf, but he's not interesting enough for me to care...hehe

Maybe asab you need some affirmation for your game.

That's why you're getting all passive aggressive and defensive.

Sadly, I am possibly too interesting for you to even consider supplicating such behavior.

Peace.

--A

[Argo navis]

Ghostwolf, I just happen not to like the sound of this, it is personal but :


An unattractive woman can never DHV or qualify a man without increasing her attractiveness. Since men are by nature 80% physical beings and 20% percent character-driven, the female PUA has only 20% of leeway to work during her seduction.


I am not into some social aid thing here - although much of the VA should ultimately be about giving value, wether through challenge or different means. Because growth of both parties involved ultimately is what defines the experience as positive.

Beauty is superficial : think about it in those terms, what does she look like when her makeup is gone? What will she look like 20 years from now? 40 years? My perception of beauty is not yours. Barth, a handsome black guy, by culture, likes extremely overweight ladies.

In his origin country this means fertility : what to me is a terribly ugly girl to him is the most beautiful pearl in the world :) He is one of the rare persons I like as my wing. No conflicts, no risks.

I restate my point : a hot chick who is a pain in the ass truely is a 4. A 6 who truely is cool turns into an 8. And I AM picky, in beauty as for the rest.

PoisonSweetKiss : it's easy, don't attempt a too too deep one on one conversation on a forum or in a public place, isolate instead and the rest should be about comfort.

[asab204]

sharp objects? I never considered a whip to be a sharp object. I'm good with the exception to ghostwolf being a pain, I'm good. here's a good question how do you get ghostwolf to not be a dick to you even when your not interested in him?

[Ghostwolf]

Beauty is superficial : think about it in those terms, what does she look like when her makeup is gone? What will she look like 20 years from now? 40 years? My perception of beauty is not yours. Barth, a handsome black guy, by culture, likes extremely overweight ladies.

Well put. Naturally this might apply for someone into a long term commitment. Infact, since the overwhelming majority of men are AFCs... yes indeed, you might be able to net a good looking AFC guy by just skills alone. Perhaps I've been thinking too much like a PUA.

As for the potential bitter-UG asab:

here's a good question how do you get ghostwolf to not be a dick to you even when your not interested in him?

You're safe asab, Ghostwolf is gentleman enough that he wouldn't EVER neg <4 girls. ;)

Happy hunting,

--GWolf

[Argo navis]

Asab, hostility is a DLV remember ;) (it's also said to be one of the only reasons for a ban around here, just for information). With this in mind, glad to see things turn into a normal conversation again (I hope at least).

[asab204]

not being hostile just don't particularly care for ghostwolf. as for being considered an UG that's just too funny NOT to laugh at. I suppose though most guys are used to women not holding their own in a conversation. so if that makes me less than a 10 on ghostwolfs scale I think I will be ok. haha. I don't have higher value than him but I know for certain I am not an UG.
so another question (one that actually pertains to PU) how do you let go of a potential LTR, when you think that one may actually form? I have been seeing this guy off and on for the past few weeks but then a so called "friend" of mine decided to call him up and leave him a horribly nasty phone message, and then the next day we see him at school and she yells to him that he's a douch bag, I texted him that she's the one thinking that and I also spoke with him in class the other day as well....what should I do about this situation? I want to DHV but then again we're in comfort or atleast I think we are. please help. thanks guys. love ya.

[azazels_wolf]

Ok here is a question for you.

I'm finding it difficult transitioning from opener, into deeper or less superficial conversation. Not necessarily for comfort but to change topic. Now, I know I can't topic jump too much but I also need to speak about something other than the opener in order to make the conversation stick.

Is there anything anyone can reccommend that would help make it easier?


PUAs have a tendency to change topics very frequently, without worrying about giving a reason for doing so. It's certainly possible to transition from the current topic into a new one, but something as simple as "Oh, that reminds me" or "You've got to hear this" or "Anyways, the other day I" etc. etc. without explaining WHY can work just as well. You can also point at something situational in your immediate environment and use that to change the topic. If your topic catches their attention, they'll forget that you just opened a completely new conversational thread. Think about conversations that you have while in rapport with friends - there's a lot of topic jumping and multiple threading, right? That's what you want to get to.


Beauty is superficial : think about it in those terms, what does she look like when her makeup is gone? What will she look like 20 years from now? 40 years? My perception of beauty is not yours. Barth, a handsome black guy, by culture, likes extremely overweight ladies.

In his origin country this means fertility : what to me is a terribly ugly girl to him is the most beautiful pearl in the world He is one of the rare persons I like as my wing. No conflicts, no risks.


Great point. This is part of the "abundance" mentality - not all people want the same thing.


sharp objects? I never considered a whip to be a sharp object.


I didn't say it was... but if you know how to use it....


I'm good with the exception to ghostwolf being a pain, I'm good. here's a good question how do you get ghostwolf to not be a dick to you even when your not interested in him?


That's a good question.... maybe when he accepts an IOD for what it really is and understands that he's been DLVing himself?


As for the potential bitter-UG asab


Ghostwolf, asab is actually a hired gun. Now do you REALLY think she'd be a bitter UG? Like I said, that's an awfully big presumption.


You're safe asab, Ghostwolf is gentleman enough that he wouldn't EVER neg <4 girls.


She doesn't think you're a gentleman, but I can see you don't care what she thinks. To each his own. But she's hardly bitter to anyone else in this whole forum... just you. Something to think about.


Asab, hostility is a DLV remember ;) (it's also said to be one of the only reasons for a ban around here, just for information).


Indeed, admin would much prefer this forum to be CONSTRUCTIVE, and disenfranchising the friendly and intelligent ladies is hardly constructive.


not being hostile just don't particularly care for ghostwolf.


Actually, Argo was pointing out that Ghostwolf DLVed himself through hostility.


I suppose though most guys are used to women not holding their own in a conversation.


This is true. Though most high value guys appreciate that for the sexy and desirable trait that it really is.


so another question (one that actually pertains to PU) how do you let go of a potential LTR, when you think that one may actually form? I have been seeing this guy off and on for the past few weeks but then a so called "friend" of mine decided to call him up and leave him a horribly nasty phone message, and then the next day we see him at school and she yells to him that he's a douch bag, I texted him that she's the one thinking that and I also spoke with him in class the other day as well....what should I do about this situation? I want to DHV but then again we're in comfort or atleast I think we are. please help. thanks guys. love ya.


Well, you obviously need to emphasize to him that your "friend" does NOT speak for you, and that you do not feel this way about him. In fact, it would help to bring home the point by letting him know that you recognize that this girl is NOT really your friend, and that you're trying to distance yourself from her. And you need to tell this girl to stop infering with your life, no matter what her reasons are for this outburst.

What do you mean by "let go of a potential LTR"? Do you want to distance yourself from him? Why? Don't let HER be the reason for that... don't let her pressure you into it by being a bitch. Only do that if YOU actually don't feel the same way about him anymore.

I don't understand too much about this situation but that's what I think given the information you've given here. Does it make sense?

[Ghostwolf]

I can understand why you want to lawyer asab Azazel,

but perhaps letting her defend her own hostility would build more character and demonstrate higher value for her.

Anyhow I have no intention of bickering.

I'm sure you're all good and dandy PUAs ladies. You're just in a different league of difficulty compared to us in the pen-15 club.

Peace, and take care,

--GWolf

[Argo navis]

..And again that is incorrect :) Finding THE man is hell to a self assured woman. Just as finding THE woman for us men. That's why all I am looking at here is an opportunity to exchange - to understand each other better, communicate, and generally...

*grabs some popcorn*

Yayyyy! For mud wrestling.

[Ghostwolf]

Since when was the aim for PUArtistry to find THE woman?

Yes that might be a motivation for some guys, but for me its to taste the sweet nectar of existence, until the last available moment possible to replicate.

As for mud wrestling... you got me there. I Give up.

:)

--GW

[asab204]

well ofcourse since the outburst from my "freind" the boy has been standoffish I know that when we speak we are in comfort it's just he thinks that she is just a really great friend of mine and that she totally speaks for me, that's not the case and though I have appoligized to him for her wrongful words I don't feel that him and I are on the same page as far as things go between us. so still don't know what to do. thanks for the advice though.

also thank you for defending me. I am much appreciative.

I don't mud wrestle, unless extremely drunk and naked. and I am neither atleast not while being on the forum.

and yes AW it does make sense.

[azazels_wolf]

well ofcourse since the outburst from my "freind" the boy has been standoffish I know that when we speak we are in comfort it's just he thinks that she is just a really great friend of mine and that she totally speaks for me, that's not the case and though I have appoligized to him for her wrongful words I don't feel that him and I are on the same page as far as things go between us. so still don't know what to do. thanks for the advice though.


Well, there's an obvious misunderstanding there, and if you want to fix this situation you're going to have to let him know that she's not a friend and doesn't speak for you. Otherwise he's just going to continue to think things that aren't true, and that's no good for either of you. Open and honest communication can accomplish a lot.... so talk to him until you feel that he's on the same page as you as far as his understanding of the situation. Otherwise, nothing will change for the better.


also thank you for defending me. I am much appreciative.


You're welcome.

And everyone has gotten their point across so I hope the bickering is done now too.... it's just a waste of time for all of us and accomplishes nothing.


I don't mud wrestle, unless extremely drunk and naked. and I am neither atleast not while being on the forum.

Mud wrestling can be fun.... but I think I too prefer peace. :)

[asab204]

thanks AW! I will see him later on today and shall speak with him about the whole situation.

I think the bickering is over too. Thank GOD or who ever you thank.

yeah mud wrestling can be fun but I too enjoy peace rather than war.:cool:

[Argo navis]

Since when was the aim for PUArtistry to find THE woman?


I didn't say it was the aim. I said it was hard. For the rest, to each his own. I happen to like quality.

[Ghostwolf]

Having a pinnacle of something always creates codependence in my opinion. That's why perfection must be offset by constant competition.

My philosophy is:

Not exclusively quantity or quality but rather:

Quantities of Quality women.

--GWolf

[Argo navis]

Good. With so much quality going on in your life you think you could you pay me the courtesy of sounding like an adult? Step one, make yourself look less like a fool with pseudo psycho banter - but that one will be a favor to yourself.

For my enjoyment, silence on your side would be welcome as the most intelligent thing you've communicated in this otherwise interesting thread.

Cheers,
Argo

[asab204]

ARGO NAVIS---You rock! and I think your great.

[azazels_wolf]

*snickers at the recent posts* :D

Good luck with the talk, asab. Let us know how it goes!

[asab204]

well guys I don't think that the talk went to well at all but hey whatcha gonna do? I told him she was and is immature and that I am not interested in being friends with her anymore but he didn't seem to believe me. so anyways moving on to better and greater things in life. I am pretty bummed out since I really liked him but he doesn't seem to want anything to do with me since the whole stupid message thing.
I truly am at a loss for words. I know I will see him over the summer but that doesn't make me feel any better. I spoke with him earlier today and asked him if he believed me or not on what she said versus what I actually think of him and he said yes he knows that it's not me saying anything bad about him or to him. I am frusterated since I wanted it to atleast be a FB situation at the very very least since he's like a SB8 (sexy beast 8) hehe. I wanted the chance to get alittle something something. I am not a promiscuous woman by any means I amy extremely picky so for me to say I would like to screw him is saying something.

thanks for the advice guys again. I guess I just have to let it go anf get out and PU more.

[azazels_wolf]

Ahh crap. :( The question remains: Why did he not believe you? Is he seeing you as guilty by association, because she was somehow involved in your life?

If your word and your honest attempt to set things right and explain what really happened aren't good enough, then that's unfortunate, but he might be a bit irrational himself..... I mean really, you've put in some effort. I guess he doesn't want to acknowledge that. His loss....

I agree, go out and meet some new guys! :)

[Argo navis]

ARGO NAVIS---You rock! and I think your great.


*Smiles a Han Solo smile..*

I know.

(Couldn't help it. Just as in my point about silence : can't help but bring out the best in people ;))

[PoisonSweetKiss]

Thanks AW! That's great advice and I understand somewhat better. I have since been opening and changing topics without apprarent reason and the conversation doesn't go stale if I keep it congruent and don't push for the change in topic, so it's seems like a natural thing. Closes are a lot smoother now and I am getting more of them than I was before.

Kisses
xxx

[Ghostwolf]

Good. With so much quality going on in your life you think you could you pay me the courtesy of sounding like an adult? Step one, make yourself look less like a fool with pseudo psycho banter - but that one will be a favor to yourself.

For my enjoyment, silence on your side would be welcome as the most intelligent thing you've communicated in this otherwise interesting thread.


What a merciless and redundant outburst. You broke my heart...

I couldn't understand whether you were trying to supplicate to the crowd by antagonizing me, or pitifully trying to AMOG me.

But you know what, you're right, I'll leave you guys to your otherwise interesting thread. Keep in mind though, "Pseudo-Psycho-Banter" is really pretty much what we're all about... maybe you should rethink why you're here?

--GWolf

(Oh and keep the Han Solo smile for conventions, you never know when you might net that 300 pound Episode IV Leia...)

[Argo navis]

can't help but bring out the best in people

..This implies there is such a thing to bring out though :rolleyes:

And asab, to answer your specific questions about the above gentleman,
once he is short of making sense and eventually resorting to petty insults, if he persists crashing and burning further, just deprive him from what trolls crave for.

Attention.

Cheers,
Argo

[PoisonSweetKiss]

Now, now boys, play nice!

If Ghost_wolf wants to be an implicit mysogynist who hates the idea of a woman taking control away from him in a situation and thus leaving him in a state of perceived vulnerability then that's his choice. Everyone is permitted their own opinion, now matter how negative a frame it is.

kisses
xxx

[Doctor D]

Now, now boys, play nice!

If Ghost_wolf wants to be an implicit mysogynist who hates the idea of a woman taking control away from him in a situation and thus leaving him in a state of perceived vulnerability then that's his choice. Everyone is permitted their own opinion, now matter how negative a frame it is.

kisses
xxx

Haha, well we are all animals and can be controlled using some psychology. Classical and Operant conditioning paradigms are great examples of control. And the three goals of psychology - Understand, Predict and Control.

I really think you will get your best answers in field, as Mystery did. And it will probably take a while before you have enough knowledge to write a book. Keep at it though :D The best advice I could give is to not let your emotions and societal norms get in the way, try to study Humans as a zoologist would from another planet.

Sure would make things easier on me :p

(I still can't picture that in my head, I think I would be in complete shock if a woman came up to me and controlled the conversation and somehow got me into bed. I think it can happen, just very un-ordinary.)

[PoisonSweetKiss]

Well, I am studying psychology so I am aware of it's methods and assumptions and also, my emtions and societal norms are never an issue. i funciton as a rational being despite being a woman lol

As for your picture of what it would be like for a women to open you, you are forgetting that it would be indirect, natural and easy from your perspective. :D Remember that women master the art of the subtle, and have been leading interactions with men for a long time and still maintain the illusion that the man is in control ;) hehe

Kisses
xxx

[Doctor D]

Awesome! I hope your not a humanistic psychologist though :p


Wasn't trying to tell you you are irrational. Some people just can't accept the truth and let their emotions make the decisions, men and women both. The truth may be that men are extremely superficial, may or not be the case just an example, and you don't want to accept that so you convince yourself otherwise.


Yes, yes, forgot about the subtleness of women haha. I think that may be the best method for women, leading the interaction while letting the man think he is in control.

[PoisonSweetKiss]

lol no I'm not a humanistic psychologist, Roger's is a bit fluffy for me, though I wouldn't go to the exptreme of simple s-r behaviourism, even though such an approach was neccessary to get us t where we are now! lol

I think you are perfectly correct, I doubt fPUA could be achieved without this subtlety, unless her inner game was perfect and she was approaching real, high value men who wouldn't be intimidated by a direct approach. That is a general rule, I think. Men are not going to be comfortable with a woman opening them unless they are very self-assured and truely high value, otherwise, they will think they are less of a man because he didn't make the first move!

Kisses
xxx

[Ghostwolf]

Men are not going to be comfortable with a woman opening them unless they are very self-assured and truely high value, otherwise, they will think they are less of a man because he didn't make the first move!

Beautifully put.

This was my entire hypothesis.

An AFC(99% of men) will be inherently uncomfortable in such a situation because the same social norm that governs society in general tells them to shun women who are comfortable about their interactions and are amiable in every way.

But if a fPUA were to control the entire flow of the interaction and set the frame as if the man was already pursuing her and that she was only reciprocating positively...

Sure, why not, it would work dandy.

You just might have discovered the future foundation of fPUArts :)

--Gwolf

[PoisonSweetKiss]

But of course :)

It's been obvious from the very beginning that the usual methods are not going t o work on men the way they work on women.

I'm going to do a little experimenting whenever I get some time off work and try out some theories i've been toying with.

Kisses
xxx

[Ghostwolf]

Try to create scenarios in which it all seems accidental.

Such as bumping into them, spilling your drink and apologizing submissively, anime style. Or making up a coincidence like you were an extra in their favorite film or something.

It's been my firm belief for many years that men are more susceptible to such ploys, as we are far less intelligent compared to women in detecting ploys or unauthenticity.

GWolf

[PoisonSweetKiss]

Try to create scenarios in which it all seems accidental.

Well, yes that is the whole point.

I doubt that such ploys as you described would be necessary, however, and I would like to believe that men are rather more intelligent that to fall for a clichéd bimbo stereotype.

Kisses
xxx

[Ghostwolf]

Trust me, we aren't :)

[PoisonSweetKiss]

I thought so. So kindly refrain from patronising me :D

Kisses
xxx

[azazels_wolf]

Try to create scenarios in which it all seems accidental.


Yes - or at least UNINTENTIONAL. This is really just a natural extension/evolution of the Mystery Method - indirect approach. One of the main concepts there is to not show interest right away, in order to create some plausible deniability for the interaction (so that it's not obvious you approached with the intention of picking up). A woman who is attempting to pick up a man can of course use the same concept successfully - she would not show any obvious interest in him until HE shows interest in HER. This way, he would feel that the seduction is in his own hands.

Just think how many times in your life a woman has spoken FIRST - either to ask you a question, make a comment, or otherwise get your attention. SHE OPENED YOU and you most likely didn't feel uncomfortable or wary. You probably didn't give it a second thought....And if she had continued the conversation, who knows where it could have gone? Some AFCs meet their eventual gfs that way!

So yes, Poison, you've got the right idea. :) And it won't matter whether the man can detect the ploy or not - if he finds you attractive, it won't matter. Just like some women KNOW they're being picked up, but they allow it to happen anyways, because they feel ATTRACTION.

[asab204]

it's difficult to say if a woman is being overbearing when it comes to PU because like you said 9 and 10's can do this with success but then again 3's can't but wouldn't you think that all fpua's think that they're 9 and 10's?
I know how I feel I rank but that doesn't mean the men I meet feel that same way. whether they think I'm a 10 or a 3 doesn't really bother me. I think how you play the game and if you have any skills should be what is ranked not the over all of a woman.

[Argo navis]

Asab, do not mind appearance at all. I may be particularly enthusiastic in everything I do, but there are overweight women I find sexy for instance.


I think how you play the game and if you have any skills should be what is ranked not the over all of a woman.


I think no human being should be ranked - we're not consumables. What I said before is true : I rarely enjoy ONS because they're not fulfilling to me. I need time to get deep inside my partner emotionally, touch her buttons, and lead her through a great experience.

So I favor personality. Not many people, regardless of their beauty, have a great personality - there are many self esteem related issues plaguing occidental societies. People who've had a few so called "10" in their life tend to observe weird trends regarding them - some are great girls, but many have a warped up sense of reality.

...Wether all you want is sex or a harem or a fulfilling mariage, trust your personality and you'll get it.

...

Right now, I'll give two 12/10 ratings to two girls around this forum, a special mention for contributing to the sex forum by making more sense in two, three posts, than there ever had been before. PSK and asab, make my day, keep it coming.

As a cookie to reward this, trust that I will tell the boys (and girls) around a lot more about sexuality and how to make you ladies feel wonderful about THEIR sexuality. It's up next.

[asab204]

AWWW Argo your so cute! but your not my type..haha. so yeah thanks for writing that it makes me feel better knowing I am not the only one who thinks tanking humans is gross. I think as far as sexuality goes men and women have many things in common that they don't neccisarily know about. For women we all talk about EVERYTHING that a guy does or says or doesn't do or say. that goes for the bedroom too! I know that my girlfriends tell me alot I don't care to know about their sex lives. although my guy friends do that same thing too. so I guess it does depend on your comfort levels. there are things I would write on here but never would tell either my girl or guy friends since they just wouldn't understand. and vice versa. when we meet face to face then MAYBE I will tell you some stories. but only until then.

anyways goodnight I am tired and am sure this post might not make sence to me in the morning. Goodnight and looking forward to your responce(s)

[Argo navis]

AWWW Argo your so cute! but your not my type..haha.



we meet face to face then MAYBE I will tell you some stories.


:) *Kisses asab on the cheek goodnight.* You're the 318th person this week I'll have to meet in person sometime, spare me a pint or two and who knows?

[PoisonSweetKiss]

Aw thank you Argo!

I didn't realise my input was appreciated so. In that case, I will give my opinion more often and more freely. Looking forward to these posts!

:)

Kisses
xxx

[Argo navis]

..the point about the psychology of blowjobs :) Brilliant. The rest is up to me.