View Full Version : Dream Reviews (cumulative)
11-12-2007, 12:00 AM
What a weekend this was, deffinitly one ill never forget!
Quick backround... About a month ago I found the U21L website, forum,convention, and heard about the bootcamps. Still being pretty new to the community, I decided it was time to take care of this part of my life. So I messaged Dream and set a date for a bootcamp.
Fast foward to 11/9/07
So I arrive at PO at about 7:30 or so and meet Dream. We introduce ourselves, and talk a little bit before the seminar.
The seminar started about 9 or so, and Dream started off with the awesome slideshow :). Then we went over the the day 1 notes. Ratisse was getting ready to head out, but took a few mins to give out a few helpful pointers on what we were goin over. One thing I have to say about these guys is that they really know what there talking about and communicate it very well. We finish up the day one notes, so me and Dream head out to a local bar called the Library.
Dream demoed some sets at first, then started winging me in and then finally pushing me out on my own while he observed and critiqued everything I was doing. He pointed out a lot of things I was doing wrong and how to fix them. Gradually sets started going better and better. Its funny how the smallest thing that you would think is completely taboo can totally make or break how the set will go. So after we got back to PO he had me write down some questions for the morning afters review.
We start reviewing the previous night,then Dream did a day game seminar. We hit up the mall and there weren't many sets, or as Mystery would say, it wasn't very target rich.
We opened just about every set we could that was legal, and again Dream was very good at finding and pointing out the subtle things that can make or break the interaction. So we get back to PO and go over everything, then chill a little bit before the day 2 seminar.(this is were I learned Mario Soccer is the coolest game in the world!! lol)
Now for the main event... THE NUTS AND BOLTS SEMINAR$$$(capitalized with dollar signs because this seminar was MONEY!!) to put simply, the nuts and bolts seminar alone was well worth the price tag.
So Dream starts the seminar, going over all the notes and doing a q&a with me. Ratisse chimes in from time to time and then Dream and I finish up and head out to a club called Roxys.(FR comming soon ;))
So we go into Roxys, and again Dream wings me but is for the most part observing and critiquing. I know I said it before, but Dream really has a good eye pointing out mistakes and puts things in a way that not only you understand what your doing wrong but how to correct it.
Woke up in the morning and reviewed the entire weekend. Dream pointed out what I was doing good and what I improved on and what I need to work on.
I'd like to thank the entire U21L crew for being so hospitable and helpful. Dream was an awesome teacher and I highly recomend the bootcamps, it was an experience ill never forget!
11-12-2007, 09:42 PM
Sounds good. I've really been wondering about this program. I live in Canada Ontario. So the decision to go all the way to Orlando is not a small one. You may have bolsetered my faith a little more ;)
11-14-2007, 10:08 PM
Sounds good. I've really been wondering about this program. I live in Canada Ontario. So the decision to go all the way to Orlando is not a small one. You may have bolsetered my faith a little more ;)
Deffinitly worth it!!
04-06-2008, 08:07 PM
Yeah...I'm so bumpin this =)
Danny give me a ring when you read this bro, its been a while
06-02-2008, 06:59 PM
The Dream Way Review
Most pick-up community ebooks are written by self-proclaimed gurus who dole out strategies and tactics. I have tried their tactics, routines, lines, and done dozens of awkward things while “sarging”, and I’m not saying those things don’t have their place and purpose (mainly pushing guys out of their comfort zones). Other “gurus” were guys who were good with women before they joined the community.
Dream was not one of those guys. He worked his butt off to get good at this and his hard work has paid off. As you will soon read, this book is the story of how an average kid transformed himself into one of the best, if not the best under-21 pick-up artist.
What I didn’t know was how to take the next step after approaching women, being attractive, and holding a conversation, but before I got to almost three years of field-tested theory, tips, and other goodies which answered almost all of the questions I had, I read his personal story, which is included in the beginning of the book. That alone adds so much perspective and reference points that I could relate to, making it very easy for me to pick out where I was along the path to becoming great with women.
This is a must read for any guy who is serious about taking things to the next level.
Here's the link: http://thedreamlounge.blogspot.com/2008/05/dream-way-lives.html
06-03-2008, 02:31 PM
You felt you needed to hack dream's account and post this?
Anyways, i want a review on this book before i put forward
$42 (more than david deangelo's double your dating ebook)
to purchase it.
06-07-2008, 09:25 AM
You felt you needed to hack dream's account and post this?
Homerunking doesn´t post on this forum so I cut and pasted it with his permission.
thanks for your interest
07-05-2008, 09:49 AM
The Dream Way is one part inspiration, one part instruction, and pure value. The catch is that this value is largely targeted at a very specific skill set within the broader skill set of getting good with women. This book is about cutting the crap and getting to the core – in one section, Dream talks about what he calls ninja skills, or skills that seem cool and important on paper, but in reality, virtually never has a place. For instance, you will hardly ever find a need to AMOG anyone, and if you do, such occurrences are so rare, it is easy and more conducive to simply lose the set and open a new one. This book won’t teach you these super ninja tactics that helps in less than 1% of your interactions, but instead, puts the whole system in perspective. It helps you set your priorities straight.
Dream’s book is more of an in-depth analysis of a belief system rather than pure how-to. His book strives to eliminate limiting beliefs, encourage a hard look at yourself to realize what is internally holding you back, then zooming into the one area that, as he claims, seems to be left out of all other guru’s teachings – logistics (the handling of getting a girl isolated to your place to sex, all without triggering ASD or LMR or at least figuring out how to handle such resistance).
Perhaps the biggest difference between this book and others is that Dream incorporates himself into his work. It’s raw, uncensored Dream. It’s infused with personal anecdotes, pains, triumphs, key ah-ha or eureka moments, and LR/FRs. These give it a much needed human quality that lets you know, this is possible, this is worth it. Because of this human touch, the mountains of tough love in the form of bold statements that may shake your entire reality and inner mentality are easier to digest.
The organization is very straightforward and logical. He starts with a painful personal story that catapulted him to his PU journey. This story hits home in so many aspects. He reveals embarrassment, humiliation, hurt, and ego-bashing. This book is a bit like an autobiography, painting a vivid picture. It’s a more down to earth version of Style’s The Game in many ways. Never having been a famous writer travelling with rock stars and constantly thrown in the way of glamorous Hollywood, Dream tells his story of an average guy (actually, probably worse than average) to who he has worked hard to become today.
Following his personal story, he jumps into breaking down your limiting beliefs by asking you to take a good look at yourself. He poses a series of questions that drives home because the first step of healing or changing is to admit you have a problem. He expertly talks about focus, the positive, and other more abstract concepts. Fortunately, he escapes the problem other more abstract talking gurus face – by being abstract, you are by definition not being specific. Dream gives you specific personal stories to exemplify his belief system in action, manifested in the way he interacts with girls.
Finally, he gets to the how-to portion. He breaks logistics down into two categories – micro and macro. Micro are things that are not as crucial, and are more specific tasks that if handled will help facilitate a good interaction. Macro are things that cannot be overlooking in managing logistics, such as finding out where she lives and her transportation arrangements. Dream covers both in some detail, but I would have liked to see an even more specific rundown of these concepts.
One thing this book assumes is that you are able to get attraction decently easily, meaning this is not a comprehensive book. It will serve well for a group of guys on a specific step in the journey, but for beginners, there is a lot of other things that is actually more crucial than the focus of The Dream Way. Dream touches on these fundamentals, but as he clearly states, it is by no means the focus.
Dream lists a plethora of excuses, reasons, and tactics to facilitate certain advances during late game. Some of these are very creative, but for the most part, I found them to be floating around the community forums and other manuals. It’s not mind blowing, but it is helpful. I will be referring to these lists in the future.
He also has a bag of goodies that talk about deeper, and also more abstract concepts such as value alignment and personality alignment. They feel more like food for thought rather than detailed discussion of the concepts. That’s fine, but it still could have benefited from more specific discussion and concrete examples.
All in all, it’s a tremendous effort, but for me, the real value was seeing Dream’s personality shine through. The how-to was informative, but not something I haven’t already heard for the most part. This is largely because I have spent a week living with him and hearing many ideas from some of his mentors at the Under 21 Convention 2007. If you weren’t there, this book will reveal so many ideas you probably have not heard of, things that classic manuals such as the VAH, Magic Bullets, and others do not mention simply because they are too focused on the overall structure.
Dream’s book is an effort at a specific skill set of managing logistics, and for that, it is solid. He draws from and gives credit to many of his friends and mentors in this book, and in many ways, The Dream Way is a compilation of various bits of advice from a bunch of strong PUAs organized in a personal, easy-to-read way. The tone is friendly and causal, but the topic is serious. It’s a quick read littered with pieces of gold, so it’s worth the small investment. Just don’t be expecting a reworking of an entire pick up structure. The Dream Way is a look into game as Dream understands it, and it’s pretty good.
07-31-2008, 06:26 PM
I had never been on a vacation alone. I had never, without the support or company of my friends or family, traveled anywhere outside of a few hours’ drive away. Three days of seminar, four nights out, forty pages of notes and about fifty sets later, I’ve managed this small step toward greater independence and arrived back in Portland. This is my story, my impressions, and everything you could possibly want to know about the 2008 Under 21 Convention, hosted by Dream.
I arrived at the hotel about an hour before the convention began and slowly people began gravitating toward the lobby. Sitting down on a couch, reading through the paper, I was approached by what had to be a PUA. Leather wrist band, affliction style t-shirt, cool jeans, it’s the look I’ve come to associate with players. He oozes charisma, and it only takes a few sentences before I have the idea firmly planted in my head that this guy most definitely gets laid. I breathe a silent sigh of relief that there are legitimately cool guys coming to the convention.
Shortly thereafter I stopped a dude about my height who I noticed was wearing a convention badge, though I neglected to read what it said, “Hey man, are they going to have a problem with me bringing in my backpack?”
He cracks a small smile and tells me in a voice that he somehow managed to infuse with the feeling of laughter without actually laughing, “I dunno…is there a bomb in it?” For some reason I’m so caught off guard by his easy wit that I answer dumbly “nope!” and he tells me he’s sure it’s fine. Something about the guy totally won me over in those few seconds of talking.
I walk into the convention hall, pushing to the back of my mind questions of my own sexuality as a bearded Dream approaches me and calls for water. Oh wait, he was just saying my name. We greet and talk briefly before I take my seat and prepare for the presentations…
Dream Part 1
Following the opening and a brief recap of his last year’s speech, Dream began his real speech. I was impressed by the improved demeanor and relaxed state (though a bit too relaxed and conversational at times) he was able to maintain while up on stage, definitely a big shift from last year. Also, as Dream spoke he laid bare the truth on the ups and downs of his personal development while giving tips on how to create discipline in getting your life/pickup handled and what pitfalls to avoid, such as becoming so focused on pickup that you forsake all other avenues of your life. At the last minute in response to some chatter going around on my end of the crowd, Dream gave some tips on going out alone, which is an idea that chills me to my soul to this day. After some final advice on emotional stability and mastery, Dream set the stage and introduced the next speaker…
Prior to the convention I had never heard of Braddock, though the “buzz” (watch the speech) surrounding him was that he’s a pretty big deal. He came up incredibly confident, although he powered through his speech due to time constraints. Braddock spoke about college game. He didn’t just speak about it, he outlined exactly the who, what, how, when, and why of the entire process of becoming the king of your campus. He even went so far as to explain a technique for pulling a two set back to your house that, by the time I had finished sketching out my interpretation of it, looked somewhat like a diagram of a football play. Although a lot of the speech was centered on the idea of there being frat houses at your school, the major concepts are applicable anywhere. Straight money.
Oh hey, that’s the guy who asked about me bringing a bomb in my bag. Heartwork comes off as an extremely positive, carefree, and just straight fun guy to hang around with. Not to mention incredibly intelligent, skilled, and knowledgeable in his area of expertise. I had the pleasure of seeing him work in field, the dude is legit.
Heartwork opened with a short segment on how to learn the game properly with his idea of Goal Centric Training. He then moved into a fairly detailed section on Shaping (the ability to make people behave the way you want in your presence) and its uses, followed by the most easy to use system of rules for cold reading I’ve ever heard anywhere in the community (who knew the word ‘sometimes’ was so useful). A little more on shaping, how to reward your girl, some practical tips and techniques, and it was onto the next speaker…
Huh, imagine that. The guy who came up to talk to me while I was reading was actually speaking at the convention. The Tetris block comment about coming from Sweden falls into place. Zebra was, in my opinion, THE most surprising speaker at this year’s convention. In addition to presenting incredible amounts of valuable information, Zebra is an incredibly dynamic speaker. The energy, certainty and skill that came out in his presentation projected exactly the type of personality that bespeaks of true self-esteem and confidence. He laid out what he considered the three most important things to take care of before anything else when deciding to learn game; getting leverage on yourself, setting goals, and becoming conscious of yourself and how you see women. On the more practical end of the spectrum, he talked about his personal love of spewing out emotional nonsense at women (“I’m gunna put you in a box!”), an exercise on how to get good at this, the truth about having people JUST talking and laughing with you and doing nothing with it, and what I considered to be just straight funny stories:
Zebra: Their friends are here, what do we do now?
Friend: Uhh I dunno…wait until they’re done?
Zebra: Fuck no! Bust in and talk LOUDER!
Downtown Orlando has some incredible nightlife, though I missed out on my chance to singe karaoke. Next year!
Dream (Part 2) and HomeRunKing
These two took the stage to open up the second day of the convention and spoke about vitality, health, and fitness. There was a fair bit of valuable information in the speech, but it was hard to grasp as much of it challenged almost every long held belief about eating and what to eat that I (and many other convention attendees) hold. At times it felt more like conspiracy theory than legitimate information, but despite this I managed to take some serious notes and will be attempting to go 3-4 weeks without milk products to put Dream to the test on his assertion that much of what goes into milk is basically glue.
My hand hurt after this one. A lot. Sinn’s speech was incredibly fluid and jam packed with information. My six pages of notes boil down basically to Sinn’s model of how social interaction works, some of his philosophy “bottom line, you wanna get laid, who gives a fuck about how you do it,” the components within the model (types of comfort, qualification, and attraction), ideas on framing, beliefs, practical tips and uses, and even some stripper game. Sinn also took some time to warn all the newbies about the dangers of becoming an under 21 pickup artist. I’m sure some of the guys tuned this out, but having only a month or so before his speech discovered in myself one of the key pitfalls he outlined, I think it was a well warranted warning.
Ratisse genuinely looks like an unapproachable badass. His style of game and absurd number of f-closes seems to reflect this. Having spent some time taking a break and talking with him at House of Blues, I can say that Ratisse is genuinely a cool, grounded dude, who has the drive and motives of a true teacher. He spoke in large part about text game and his particular take on it, as well as sexual priming which is basically “a smart and efficient way to know where you are” or as Sinn would say “blow me or blow me out.” This, coupled with Zebra’s speech, helped me to flip the switch inside me that says “fuck it” and just go for broke if I find myself in the 20 minute set to nowhere. He also spoke a little bit on endgame and dealing with LMR. My one criticism was that he kept his notes on his cell phone, which made it look like he was answering texts during his speech. Value packed speech, very relaxed demeanor, incredibly skilled PUA.
Nautilus and Right Hand Man
Nautilus was a returning speaker from last year, and with his partner Right Hand Man, they gave a speech on a very different style of game. They spoke on Inner and Outer game, and their idea and beliefs that one should never chase a girl, ever. This includes asking for phone numbers and at times sexually escalating. If the girls on the presentation screen are actually some of Nautilus’ exs, then he is definitely onto something. They warned that their style is incredibly easy and simple to follow, though it is hard for me to break all my old patterns and start over with such a radically different method of game. Their confidence and stage presence definitely lends credibility to them however.
Just. Straight. Wow. Watch the video. Seriously, watch it. This guy has to be seen or better yet, experienced, to believe. In short, he talked about the three things that every guy who is good with women has: Confidence, Abundance, and the Ability to Sexually Escalate, and ways to improve all of these. The man is so positive and giving and such a personality that…words fail to describe. Watch watch watch!!!
With day two wrapped up, that only left one more day, and with such extraordinary speakers, day three would be hard pressed to live up to the rapidly rising bar, even with my favorite speaker from last year taking a two hour chunk.
Dream Part 3
Dream opened up the final day with a Q&A of questions that he took from the forum. It is difficult to describe this without reproducing every question here, but basically it involved some tips on pulling, beliefs, Dream’s pyramid of reasons for being out at night (which is deceptively simple, yet profoundly powerful), and more valuable information on mastering your emotions (pleasure pain principle) and leadership.
Returning once again, one of the top PUA’s in the community came to reveal some of his newest theories and technology. Though he was still an amazing speaker with invaluable information, there seemed to be a dark cloud or some bad mood hovering over Mehow, so props to him for getting through the presentation anyway and doing an awesome job. He spoke on his idea of group attraction while breaking down a video demonstration of it in action, and also his new form of teaching via ebook, called DNA. I don’t remember what it stands for, but it in essence tells you exactly how to deliver a line, from tonality, to speed, to what you should be doing with your hands, so that guys don’t spend months repeating a line and saying it wrong over and over again. He also introduced the idea of solo winging and some tactics with wings. Mehow proved once again that he doesn’t mess around. He delivers.
Wow. For me personally, Manwhore’s speech hit right on the money with the type of information that I think more guys need to absorb and understand in the community. He spoke massively on the idea of presence, dominance, leadership, limiting beliefs and other profound inner game topics. I particularly loved his metaphor for game, “Inner game is the language of social interaction. Once you get it dialed, outer game is just the pronunciation of the words.” And of course, he wasn’t without his out of control stories and as-repeatable-as-schwarzenegger one liners such as, “If I wanted you to be the measure of my balls, I would put them in your mouth.” I was disappointed that a lot of the guys didn’t get as much out of his speech as I did, as I think this kind of thing is really all you need if you understand it and embody it. I’ll be listening to the audio over and over between now and the 2009 convention, where I hope Manwhore will return to speak again.
El Topo, Doc Holliday, and Entropy
El Topo is an interesting guy. He has a sense of humor unlike anybody I’ve ever seen, and is absolutely hilarious. He spoke about his RedStack concepts and was creating custom material for any guy who had the balls to raise his hand and call out answers to his questions. He also gave some tips on how to improve delivery and your overall skill.
Doc Holliday, forgive me, does not look like the kind of guy who pulls. Looks can be deceiving. Meeting him, he is a very chill cool guy. Seeing him in the field, he’s deadly. He spoke briefly on daygame and gave a quick model to follow for a specific scenario, from open to getting a solid phone number.
I didn’t write much down about Entropy, I don’t think he spoke much, but I did have the opportunity to talk with him out in field, see him critique one guy’s set, and get some feedback on a set I had just run. Really chill guy, very honest, and really made me feel like he enjoyed giving me feedback on my situation and was in no way grudging about taking time to talk with a humble noob.
Libido spoke briefly on relationships and keeping sex interesting. I saw him at House of Blues the Sunday before I flew out, and oh my god. This guy is a beast. Read some of his LR’s that he posted up. He had a method of opening that got girls instantly investing in him that I’ve never even heard of before, let alone seen work. Just wow. My jaw dropped watching him in action.
In Depth Q&A
Too much to go over here. Every remaining speaker got on stage and fielded questions from the audience. Very valuable time, I wish I could have thought of a question. I also heard the first “whispers” of the soon to be infamous ‘Circle of OI!’ routine. The most devastatingly effective routine available in the community, probably that ever WILL be available. I’m still waiting on the video, though I participated in a Group of OI at HOB. I hit state instantly.
The Last Word
Top notch speakers, and according to Dream over 22 hours of seminar footage. This really is the best quality event/product available to the community. For $100 you get what would normally cost you upward of $2000, not to mention the numerous discounts offered by some of the speakers who were providing workshops and bootcamps as well. The 2008 Under 21 Convention was a sight to behold and an experience that I won’t soon forget. Most guys have never had the opportunity to take in such a large amount of information and then CONSISTENTLY put it into practice, each night. I never even mentioned the approach a thon where more experienced guys help noobs get some approaches under their belt. It’s like a free bootcamp. Also, each of the speakers took enormous efforts to answer questions from the audience and make themselves available during the convention (and even in field a bit) to talk with about game or just to shoot the shit. Phenomenal. Does it get any better than this? Probably not. I’m reserving my ticket to next years convention ASAP, I wouldn’t miss this for the world.
Are you ever going to be finished with women in your life? No. It doesn’t matter how old you are. The Under 21 Convention is the most underrated, highest quality experience that, if you’re willing to commit to it, will take you places you never thought possible. See you in 2009.
07-31-2008, 06:27 PM
This is a review of The Morning After Weekend workshop that I did with Dream in July of 2008.
To give you guys a little background, I did Mystery's Chicago superconference workshop back during the end of 2007. I dished out a couple thousand for the opportunity to learn from Mystery & Matador and go out sarging with them. The result: total waste of money. To me Mystery's and Matador's game is celebrity game due to their exposure of the Pickup Artist show on VH1. When we went out to the club people would come up to them since they already has social value from their show. I feel it didn't really relate well to us average joe's because we don't already have that "celebrity" status.
Back to Dream's workshop. It was 3 days & 2 nights of personal 1-on-1 attention that focused exclusively on my game and what I needed to do to improve. The value I got from the workshop easily exceeded the cost of the workshop, which was very, very affordable to begin with. In my opinion this was the best money I have ever spent on PUA. We went out sarging at night and discussed different aspects of pickup and had some pretty mind-blowing conversations. In addition we talked about health, vitality, women, life goals, and other non-pickup related topics. A big concept Dream has is that he believes in being well-rounded and leading a balanced lifestyle. He is always trying to improve himself in the different facets of his life, whether its fitness, eating healthy, improving his social skills with girls, etc. This rubbed off on me and now I feel I am now a better "man" overall for addressing these areas and making the effort to improve myself.
The first night that I arrived Dream picked me up at the airport and we proceeded to dive right in to pickup theory and my experience in the game. We outlined some short, medium, and long term goals for the weekend and beyond. Homerunking came over and joined in our discussion for a while, then we headed out to a local UCF bar named Touchdown's.
Got to Touchdowns and waited in line since the place was at capacity. Dream immediately opens a set to our right by commenting on how one girl is standing with her arms crossed and looks pissed. Homerunking starts talking to another girl who ended up had actually went to school with him when he was younger. Got into the place and scoped it out. I opened a 3 set hovering around the bar who I had seen earlier. I address all three for a few minutes, get them into me and then Dream comes in to wing and starts talking to one. So I have 2 girls in my set, one is a HB8 and the other is a HB5. The HB8 is totally giving me buying signals, asking where I'm from, what I'm doing down in Orlando, etc. At the same time Dream is doing "mini-venue" changing by grabbing a chair and sitting down in it about 5 feet from where we're at so we all slowly move over to him. This was key as he explained to me later it was a venue change (even if only 5 feet) and showed he was in control as he sat down and "locked in" while the rest of us were standing around him. Continue to talk to the girls while Homerunking is chatting up a HB8 nearby, that dude's game screams not needy and the girl totally ate it up. They end up talking all night.
After a while Dream and I head to the dance floor and dance with the girls. I end up getting a kiss close before they leave and we both get numbers. Chilled at Touchdowns until close and opened a few other sets. At one point in the night Dream starts to dance by himself in place; he doesn't care who sees him, he's just having a good time. When you see someone dancing by them self all you can do is laugh and you instantly realize that person is having fun and is totally comfortable. This was one of those mind-blowing moments for me as it totally takes any social pressure off any situation.
The next day Dream and I discuss pickup and have yet more mind-blowing conversations. Later that night Homerunking comes over and we head out to a country line-dancing bar named Cowboys. Open a few sets here and there. Dream is chatting up everybody, including an older lady sitting at a table by herself. His philosophy is to "be" instead of "do", aka he is social because that is who he is instead of what he does. He opened that lady because he is a social person, no matter if you're an older lady or a HB10 or a set of 2 dudes. This is key and something I am trying to model in my life as well. Later that night a drunk mom and her sober HB8 daughter open me up near the dance floor. We chat them up and Dream ends up getting the girl's facebook info. He tells her to "reach out" to him, displaying his non-needy attitude. Watching him work in field is awesome. Dream pushes me to open more sets by myself and gives me critiques afterwards. I open a 2 set of girls standing by themselves who totally give me the cold shoulder. I plow through and keep going. A dude comes over into the set and I immediately acknowledge him without thinking. Keep going with the set till they leave a few minutes later. One girl opens up to me right before they leave and initiates a high-five as she walks off, a total 180 from before. Dream gave me some great feedback on my body language and how the set went from his point-of-view.
Sunday we chat some more before my flight out. Dream types me up a 3 page report to take with me that addresses my game and what I should work on in the future (talk about personalized attention), totally unexpected.
Conclusion: If you have never done a bootcamp I highly recommend Dream's Morning After Workshop. If you are a beginner or have been in the community for a while you will still leave the workshop with a lot of valuable information. Dream is an asset to the community and the Under 21 convention he put together was awesome as well. Guys, this is the best value for the money,5 out of 5 stars, you will not be disappointed.
09-12-2008, 06:21 PM
Being a PUA enthusiast and a regular reader of various PUA blogs and forums, I thought I knew it all when it came to picking up a chick from the club to the bedroom. Naturally, I was a little skeptical of The Dream Way. To my pleasant surprise, this book delivered all the promises made by Dream himself, and as you read on, I will elaborate.
As a member of a number of top PUA forums, I’ve discovered Dream through his threads chronicling his field and lay reports. I later viewed a copy of the 2007 “Under 21 convention” and I was impressed with Dream’s presentation of his transformation and newbie missions. After I learned that Dream came out with his first book, I was absolutely curious on its contents, particularly logistics.
The Dream Way begins with a background story of Dream’s life, recounting all the way from his childhood. He vividly narrated his high school life, which was rather socially limited and consumed with bad habits and video game addiction. His relationship with the opposite sex was devoid until he got introduced to the seduction community. The part of his story that touched me the most was the incident where he was called out “a virgin” by a drunk, angry girl in front of everyone at his first house party. I enjoyed reading about his pick-up journey, from meeting and learning from real pick up artists (Hawt, Nilatak, Zuzu, Nautilus, Devious etc.), to him practicing his skills by going out 4-5 nights every week. Within a year Dream has approached 2000 sets, comprising of about 5000 people. As you read Dream’s story, you can’t help but be amazed at his at his transformation, which led to the unfolding of the Project Orlando and the Under 21 Convention.
Dream’s story was INSPIRATIONAL. Not only could I relate my social life and relationship with women to Dream’s story to an immense extent, I was hopeful that perhaps I too can transform and live life the way I want to.
The Dream Way then progresses to the nitty-gritty of Dream’s pick-up strategy. He begins by outlining a set of positive beliefs one must embrace in order to achieve success with women. He analyzed 6 beliefs, some of which really shocked me and will shock you too. Dream then discusses natural game and his infamous “magic pill.” Part II of The Dream Way can be considered the “how-too” portion of picking up women. This book is primarily focused on same night lays. For this reason, this book is not for absolute newbies. If you have not gone out and practiced approaching a few-hundred times, close this book now and come back when you do so. Dream’s pick-up strategy assumes the attraction phase, and works towards phases progressing beyond.
An important concept Dream discussed was “ninja skills.” Ninja skills, as Dream describes them, are situations that rarely happen but are unfortunately overanalyzed by guys in the community. A good example is AMOGING, which happened in less than 2% of cases in Dream’s experience. Despite this, Dream meticulously explains how to deal with AMOGs so that in the rare case you confront such ninja skills, you can deal with them like a pro.
Having read number of PUA books by the likes of Mystery, Mehow, Carlos Xuma, Swingcat and some others, I was elated to know that The Dream Way was the first to detail the logistics of pickup. Dream divides logistics into two categories: macro and micro. Macro are the components of logistics that cannot be overlooked, such who is you target with and how are they related, her plans for getting home and so on. Micro are the specifics tasks that must be done in order to produce a good interaction with the target to get her home, such as befriending her friends. There are some very interesting and important concepts that Dream discusses that are so brilliant that it made we wonder why I haven’t thought of them first. Such concepts include “Mini Venue Changing” and “Seeding the Bounce.” The goal of “mini venue changes” is to lead the girl emotionally as well as logistically. “Seeding the bounce” is the art of telling are reason for you and the girl to bounce (move somewhere) together, with the end goal of you two being alone together. Trust me guys, the extensive information Dream provides to execute macro and micro logistics will blow your mind.
Dream also provides his “bag of goodies,” which are secrets he used to help interactions move along to a same night lay. He also discusses the advantages of bouncing to her place or yours, and explains the concept of “mini seeds,” which are excuses to take her to the bedroom or bed. Finally, Dream dissects last minute resistance and how you should trample it. He divides resistance into two categories: false and real, and what each is indicative of.
Overall, I cannot elucidate enough how much I was impressed with this book. What’s so great about this book is that with each concept he discusses, he backs them up with his field reports or personal anecdotes. His bonus material provides his field and lay reports which can be used to relate with his discussion of logistics and other concepts. This book is solid from beginning to end, easy to understand, and is a quick read because of its logical organization. This book is absolutely original in its content, backed by three years of experience in the field.
09-12-2008, 06:22 PM
I did the Morning After Weekend Workshop with Dream on 8/29/08-8/31/08, and here is my review and observations from my experience.
The weekend was hands down the best experience I had this year. It was very eye-opening and gave me a whole new impression of night game. Dream picked me up from my apartment on Friday, and then we headed straight to his house for the seminar portion of the workshop. We had very revealing conversations on our history, personal lives, and health aspirations. Dream provided me two packets of notes which we went over. The first packet was geared towards beginners while the second packet detailed more advanced strategies, such as seeding the bounce and mini venue changes. He discussed the content of each packet for two hours each, and has backed them up with stories of his lays and make-outs. We also discussed short, medium, and long term goals in pick-up as well as my level of experience in sarging so that Dream could better demonstrate his method in the field.
So that night, we headed to Scoops. It must be told that Scoops and UCF bars in general are fierce arenas for picking up due to the loudness and crowdedness, along with the drunkenness of the girls there. Being a keyboard jockey who never went out sarging, I was severely consumed by approach anxiety. I would not even approach the fat girls at the bar! Eventually I would experience a drastic boost in confidence when I saw Dream doing his thing on the field. He approached a set of HB9s right outside the bar, and I was really impressed on how he got the conversation going. I did my first ever approach when Dream opened a 2-set comprising of an HB6 and a smoking hot HB9. Dream opened the HB6 and left the HB9 for myself. I was amazed at how the HB6 was clawing Dream, and that really motivated me to open her hot friend. I opened her with a situational opener and then we talked for a few minutes. Eventually I was blown out, but I felt a great sense of accomplishment. We then went out, opened some more sets, and I could easily notice my approach anxiety draining away. We then went back inside opened a 2 set, HB7 and HB8. Dream opened the HB7 and got her hooked for a good while and even had be do the “farmer’s shake” on her, which I thought was funny. We met with Flow and Defixon, who opened the HB8 in the set and got a kiss close. I understood that Dream won’t always be around when I go sarging, so I went out of my way and opened a set on my own, which was a great deal for me because the set was an HB8 and I finally noticed my approached anxiety dying away.
On Saturday, Dream critiqued my sarging, such as not being loud enough, talking to fast, and leaning in towards the girl. He then proceeded on discussing his second packet, which detailed more advanced strategies. The second packet was actually the origins of “The Dream Way.” He discussed logistics and why it is essential for same night lays. I personally loved his story of how he made out with a girl (who was coincidentally my physics lab partner last semester) but failed to get the lay due to weak logistics. After the presentation he showed me some amusing videos of him and Devious sarging during his early years of pickup. So that night, we hit up Scoops again, and I was more ready then ever to sarge. My experience from the night before developed a “don’t think, just do” mentality within my mind. Opened a whole bunch of sets with the “who lies more: guys or girls” opener and got some conversation going. My body language improved, and I learned to speaker louder and slower. Dream opened and demonstrated some sets too, the most amusing one was when he opened a HB9 with “your hair smells great, but it tastes like ass.” She was lovin’ it. Met up with Flow and Defixon again, damn Flow has some impressive kino skills.
Sarging and learning from Dream really skyrocketed my confidence. We were chilling outside with Flow for some time when I saw an blonde HB9 (imagine Heidi Montag) and opened her with the most outrageous opener. The exact opener was “hey, check this out. You are the girl I masturbate to every night.” The HB creeped out and left from that, but I was laughing hysterically while at the same time enjoying the moment. Dream pulled the same opener with a moving set, with a similar reaction. Good times!
Sunday, I met up with Dream again. Dream typed up a page assessing my sarging during the last two nights, outlining the positives and negatives. I loved how it was individualized and comprehensive. He provided practical advice on how I can improve my game, as well as a reading list. We discussed more about our personal lives and vitality; I really liked how Dream was geared towards well-roundedness for an overall better quality life. Dream is truly a motivating figure for me.
Dream is one of the most chillest people you can meet. I opened up to him on personal issues I wouldn’t discuss with friends or family. The workshop was well worth the money, and is highly recommended for beginners like myself, or more advanced students.
09-12-2008, 06:22 PM
This is a review of the “Dream and His Angels” workshop, for which I had the pleasure of being the first customer.
I spent pretty much the entire of Sunday with Dream’s two gorgeous roommates, Roxy and Rubi. We drove over to the Millenia mall here in Orlando, and spent nearly three hours working on developing an identity and fashion sense that best suits me. They took a whole bunch of pictures so that I have reference points whenever I go out shopping for clothes next time. We first went to Guess, and tried out a whole bunch of t-shirts, dress shirts, and jeans. From a great deal of experimenting with different designs and color combinations, Roxy and Rubi discovered that I looked best in brown, maroon, and black. I really liked how thy emphasized color contrasts between shirts and pants, as well as fitting.
So after spending much time experimenting with different clothes, we visited A&F, Express, Gap, and some other stores. I really enjoyed the personalized attention they gave me. They chose clothes for me based on the style I like and what looks great on me, thus saving me a great deal of confusion and frustration when developing an image for myself. The day after the session I actually went back to the millennia mall and went shopping with my roommates. They really noticed a change in my choice of clothing. Just yesterday after class my roommate’s girlfriend was complimenting me on my shirt (brown A&F polo).
After the really exhaustive yet exciting day with the sisters, I was really looking forward to the “mock date” later that afternoon. Having never gone on a real date before, I did not know what to expect. I went to a restaurant called Fuji with Roxy for some sushi. We had a blast there and it wasn’t as frightening as I first expected: D. We talked about a wide spectrum of subjects, including our high school years, traveling, what we do for fun, our college lives and so on. Roxy is a very laid back person, you can open up with anything’s on your mind to her. I’m generally shy and quite around girls, but it was definitely not the case with Roxy. After sushi, we walked outside for awhile and had even more mind blowing conversations.
After the mock date, Roxy and Dream typed up a page analyzing the date and discussed everything I did right/wrong, so that I can improve in the future when I go on a real date. The feedback was very valuable to me as I new that changes I make will really improve the quality of the date, and keep the girl interested.
Conclusion: This workshop is without question well worth the money. Roxy and Rubi are very passionate in what they do you can be assured that they can dramatically improve your fashion sense and relationship with women. I had an awesome weekend with Dream, and spending quality time with the girls was a perfect ending to the weekend.
Thank you Roxy and Rubi!!
09-12-2008, 06:27 PM
Made this review for a Swedish forum I post on, figured i might aswell post it here to for anyone that didnt get a chance to go.
The under 21 convention that hit Orlando Florida last month was a big success. Besides all the great speakers that were there giving huge amounts of value and the great people that attended, the whole thing was just 30 dollars (206 kr). This was more of a POOAH charity event then a summit.
Arriving the first day I met up with some people who had made the trip from across the states to be there. It was fun to meet guys who were dedicated to seduction, and who had different styles in sarging. Even the guys who had no idea what a set even looked like were at least eager to get out in the field and start ripping Orlando apart.
The first night anyone that wanted to could take part in an approchathon. This was not an official convention event, but was organized by the local lair for the convention students. People staying from the hotel gathered in the lobby and we all shared taxies to downtown Orlando. This place had a whole street full of all sorts of venues.
Meeting the lair people at a square close to the club area we all got some time to get to know each other. We headed off to a parking garage to get a quick brief for the night, and to get into teams. It was pretty ghetto getting the first seminar in a parking garage, and we had to move a few times cause the security people thought a group of 50 guys standing around seemed suspicious. Fight club is the only thing that comes to mind thinking back on it.
Dream, the guy who organized the convention and the approachathon, explained how the whole thing worked. We would each go in teams of 3, one instructor per every two students. Sounds like an awesome ratio, but I got to mention that some of the instructors were less then what would be expected from a low level approach coach. As long as the 2 students were paired up with someone who was better then they were, they could at least learn something.
Night started out pretty good. Got Dream as my guide and we hit the town with a 50 man entourage (needles to say, any routines would soon be totally valueless. I cant count how many times I herd guys get blown out cause they re-used some material other guys tried).
Starting off was slow, and while Dream and the other guy started approaching like they were on fire, I started to get inside of my head. I got pushed into a horrible walking set and decided to get the worst set of the night out of the way. This way I knew that nothing that night could be worse then that. After that was done, sets started opening and I started to really enjoy Orlando. All the clubs had different themes and the girls were all cool (not to mention hot).
At the end of the night 2 guys pulled, but didn’t close the deal. Everyone else went home pretty empty handed. I was a bit surprised at the amount of new guys that were that this convention.
With about 4 hours of sleep, my wings and I rolled out of bed to get some good seats for the convention. The convention officially started at 11 am.
List of speakers:
Dream – Introduction to the event, some own life experience, newbie mission,
and how to handle guys. Gave a small Intro to all the other speakers
ManWhore – Unofficially from RSD. This man talked about frame control,
communication, and cavemaning.
***** – Something about identity…..oh and take his boot camp!
Mehow – Kino, routines and blowing AMOGs out.
Orleans – Words of wisdom and Vin DiCarlo Escalation ladder.
Nilatak – Profound inner game. Good stuff.
Libedo – Sex, peacocking, and having MLTRs.
Nautilus & MK – Fashion and style.
After Dreams nitro to the convention the first speaker stepped up, ManWhore. To describe MW, in short, he looks like an army guy. The man steps up and I swear “I don’t give a fuck” is stamped on his forehead. He talked about really having a strong frame and being congruent with what your doing. Backing every statement up with a story that I found to be hilarious. His whole attitude was: be the person you chose to be. If you had a strong enough frame, people wouldn’t question you. This naturally went into communicating your identity to other people and cavemaning. At one point I think he said that he actually had conversations with women…witch was not cool, but then he made up for it by telling us about how he tied this one girl up and…ok moving on.
Moving on, we have Mehow. Starting with one of his signature videos I was a bit disappointed. Lets face it, the audio and video isn’t always the best quality, and I wanted to hear him speak about stuff. One cool thing though was that he broke the video down step by step. He went on to talk about how important kinoing was, and how his whole system is basically built around playful touching. Second day he went on to speak about how to handle group sets and AMOGs. His formula was that as long as his target was engaging the obstacles and AMOG he would to, but as soon as she started ignoring them he wouldn’t even bother anymore. All in all, I felt like his presentation was a bit bare bone for him being one of the top industry guys. He seemed like a pretty cool guy though, even off the stage.
Libedo was the man with the peacocking plan. Starting his presentation off by telling us he joined the community because he loved sex was a new approach to it. I figured that his whole angle would be sexual technique, and mostly it was. Interesting point he made was that guys focus way too much on making the girl orgasm. The entire experience should be the main event; orgasm is like the cherry on top of the ice cream. Then he went on to talk about his extreme peacocking, and how to handle social pressure. One of the days he walked around in a toga. Also he said he was from Sweden…but that was just a lie…made me sad.
Besides Dream, Orleans was the first real under 21 speaker of the convention. The word colected comes to mind when trying to describe Orleans. His whole presentation was based on his successes and how he became the person he is. He advocated not making out with girls in clubs, and I actually saw him in-field once giving a girl the cheek. After some stories and LR he talked about the Vin DiCarlo escalation ladder. Vin DiCarlo being the company he works for, this was a sort of kino escalation rutin that would take you from opening to sex. To be honest it did have some moves in there that I personally never heard of. The strangest step I thought was when you pull up the girls and your shirt, and then have your abdomen touching hers. Apparently this sort of touch only happens during sex and makes the girl think about getting it on.
Nilatak focused on identity and deep inner game. His speech included how to really act like a man in relationships, and how to set standards for those relationships. A big part of his speech was centered about knowing, and being cool with yourself. This way if other people fucked with you, at least you knew you were cool and you could stay uncreative. If you understood that last part pm me cause sometimes inner game gets so confusing that it totally losses it’s meaning to me. Nilataks presentation stood out a bit because he talked more about being a strong person in general.
Nautilus was the only speaker with a female pivot. Nice looking girl that worked for Maxim as a party organizer or something to the extent. Their whole topic was fashion and how to dress with style. Not peacocking, but dressing good. I have to say I enjoyed this presentation a lot. The whole concept was that all guys in clubs dress differently, and that one needed to stand out by trying different styles. Was a bit sad when they showed a picture of all the guys that dress the same and me and my wing realized it was exactly how we dressed. Some styles they recommended were the rocks star, the really fancy style (they haven’t seen people in Sweden I guess), and the ghetto style. Interesting point made was that any guy with the right look could be atleast a 8 in looks.
That covered the two days of the convention. Through the day you could see POOAHs walking around the Holiday Inn, buying weird looking peacocking items, eyeing family sets. The Holiday Inn staff would grill me every time I tried to get my key about what the convention was about. Once every year we get together and play X-Box video games. Why else would it be called the gaming convention? When the girl finally called us out that it was a convention about talking to girls we had screwed with her so much. Ironic that I walked out with her number when I left the place.
Every night during the convention everyone would head out to a club to go sarge. A lot of people complained that the clubs were out-sarged with so many POOAHs there, but honestly I never had that problem. After an hour just not using rutines and a bit of plowing through the bitch shield and the girl was so happy to meet someone that didn’t want to know the color of her cube. Besides that, rolling with a 50 man entourage gives you social proof where ever you go. I was literally high fiving someone every other step I took in the club.
I heard something about one instructors blowing a student out of set as revenge for all the sets the students ruined for the instructors. Sounds really bad, but then again this wasn’t an in field boot camp. I had a few sets ruined to by some random dude coming in who started screaming how awesome I was, and how I was a New York Times best seller…Yepp it actually happened.
To sum it all up the convention was a really good event. A lot of value given, a lot of skills learned, and if you walked away without bettering your game well then that was completely on you. I don’t see how anyone could have not pumped their learning curve there. Besides all that, a lot of new friends were made. One note I was surprised by was that most if not all the guys (exception of one) that attended were really cool people. Community events sometimes draw out some weirdo people to attend, but this was not the case here.
That’s my review of the under 21 convention, rock on
09-12-2008, 06:28 PM
What I took away from the Under 21 convention, a three-day event, jam-packed with information and picking up.
Great speeches include those by Manwhore, Braddock, Sinn, AFC Adam, and Doc Holliday. Special props go out to Dream for putting the event on, which was an incredible amount of work.
-Manwhore: Know the importance of self-respect and self-understanding. Understand the importance of standards in everyday life. If you can't live up to your highest standards, how can you respect yourself? If YOU can't respect yourself, how can GIRLS respect you? Stop giving a fuck. You dictate the importance and validity of your actions. Nobody else.
-Braddock: In your social circle, "buzz" is everything--girls talking about you when you aren't there. Hard to transform your identity in a social circle where everyone wants to believe you're one way. If you aren't high status in your social circle, maybe the best bet is to cut them off and move forward. Best bet is to work your way down from the hot girls, it's easier than working your way up.
-Sinn: Sinn talked about Hollywood Attraction, where you open a set with an extreme move that either gives you tons of attraction or will blow you out. He also talked about rapid hoop escalation (try qualifying with a large hoop) and if she complies, instant attraction, you skipped "attraction" -- it's like a glitch in the matrix.
-AFC Adam: Getting good with girls boils down to three things, he says: confidence, abundance, and ability to sexually escalate. Someone on RSDNation (Thomas Anderson) said this: confidence is when you feel the outcome isn't going to be bad; courage is when you say "fuck it". Abundance is having a lot of women in your life who really like you and respect you, and want to hang out with you. And if you can sexually escalate some of them, you'll be all good.
-Doc Holliday: Doc outlined a simple model for day game pickups. Step one: heyy, I know this is random but I just had to come meet you. I'm Doc. (The only kino he does in daygame pickups is to shake their hand). I know this is kind of random, but something about you, you seem like a New York girl. Then go in freestyle from there.
Overall I give it my highest endorsement. A lot of learning and a lot of fun.
Also check out my extended review of Braddock
09-12-2008, 06:29 PM
I flew down to Orlando Wed July 23rd thru Sunday July 27thThe Under21 convention is for guys whose target audience is under21 or guys who are under21. The primary focus:
* Pickup outside Bars and clubs
* Social Circle game
* Campus game
* Gaming College girls
* Thursday July 24th:
* 11-12 - Registration
* 12-1 - Dream (welcome and intro, then into my first topic)
Dream from the Orlando TopLair ran the entire show, which was particularly impressive for being only 19. We came from similar backgrounds of being fitness instructors, and it was extremely motivational to see a guy so motivated at such an early age. He really has his act together in life, self improvement and pickup. I met some guys who did his bootcamp and live-in program and he comes highly recommended.
* 1-1:15 - Short Break
* 1:15-3:15 - Braddock - Love Systems Instructor
Braddock - You must research this guy. Best speaker of the entire convention. He had his social circle game down and definitely took the right approach to college. He reminded me of one of my super alpha friends who is not in the community. He had direct advice which fits within our Institutionalized Termination model. I've used his text message game and it's immensely helped decrease my flake rate.
* Check out his material on the attraction forums.
* He's coming out with an ebook soon on text message game.
* If there's 1 instructor you follow while you are in school, this should be him. On college campus he destroys all.
* Don't Hate Fraternity's - Join them - key takeaway.
* 3:15-4:15 - Lunch
* 4:30-6:30 - Heartwork - Vin Di Carlo Instructor
I could not believe that Heartwork was only 18 years old! If any of us were at this guys level when we were 18, imagine where we would be now. He's going to have his own TV show soon, and he winged me out at the clubs later. Definitely a really good instructor to learn from and fearless.
* He's even duked celebrities which he revealed to me, but I can't mention here.
* He was able to create immediately reactions in the club, and was just a real fun social guy with an upbeat attitude.
* He had great bar technologies as well. Learned how to do Tic-Tac Toe in a club
* I saw him in set night after night and he had all his logistics down, he knew where to pull girls to get them into isolation / seduction location within the venue.
* 6:30-6:45 - Short Break
* 6:45-7:45 - Zebra (former Under 21 Lifestyle Student)
Zebra taught us a new way of opening, and showed just how a nonsensical opener can actually work. This guy went out with us as well that night, demonstrated and was very successful. His entire crew was there and they were all from the D.C. area.
* Great low pressure instructor
* He took our newbie friend under his arm and helped him eliminate approach anxiety.
* I love his teaching style
* He gave everyone 'dared opener's that we had to use, rediculous stuff like: "Open that set with your arms in the air, tell them you are dislexic."
* 7:45-8 - Prep for tonight (where to go etc...)
Friday July 25th:
* 11am - Doors Open
* 11:30-12:30 - Dream and HomeRunKing
* 12:30-12:45 - Short Break
* 12:45-3 - Sinn (dude this is SINN)
Sinn was a former mystery method instructor and he shared halarious stories about Mystery, Neil and his experiences hanging out with these guys. He taught us a new model, with a focus on her qualification and breaking repoire all the time. This new model encompassed the similarities he's seen with all the good guys out there. After careful analysis I have determined when I 'neg' girls I am quite often really using statements to have them qualify, making assumptions. I am reclassifying much of my material as qualification material.
* 3-4 - Lunch
* 4:10-5:10 - Ratisse (my former room mate at Project Orlando, fucked 80 chicks in 6 months...)
OMG! Ratisse had awesome peacocking, his style was unstoppable and his attiude congrent. He gave me some interesting ideas with peacocking.
* First night out, First set, he pulled into his vehicle and duked!
* 5:15-6:15 - Nautilus and Right Hand Man (the speech they will give, will BLOW YOU AWAY)
Older guys could relate to these guys, as they were still very successful with pickup. They took the ideas they knew from sales and corporate social presentation to pickup.
* 6:15-6:30 - Short Break
* 6:30-7:45 - Mehow (this is effing Mehow!!)
Mehow is really good, and I've always been a really good fan. He has awesome text and phone game. One thing that separates him from other instructors is that he shows video's of his sarges and breaksdown the interaction. This is extremely valuable. It's one thing to hear them and them try to teach us, but when you see it in action you can really understand.
* I recommend you review his sarge video's and breakdown his interactions.
* 7:45-8 - prep for tonight
Saturday July 26th
* 11am - Doors Open
* 11:20-11:50- In depth Q and A with Dream
* 11:55-12:50- AFC Adam Lyons (like the worlds third best PUA)
Dream was right about this guy - He is the best PUA ever. His stories were awesome, and his technologies very different than the standard "learn the opener". He focused on social circle game and how to roll deep with a ton of girls. He made me realize that was something I was doing and I thought back on now I had all this social proof but I needed to take these girls and pound them out.
* 12:55-3 - Manwhore (one of last years BEST speakers)
* 3-4 - Lunch
* 4:15-6:15 - El Topo (one of the best teachers in the community)
El Topo is a mixed guy like myself so I could immediately relate. One of my clients has a customized routine stack and it was apparent how much he values his clients as he distinctively remembered him. El Topo was hilarious .
* 6:15-6:30 - Short Break
* 6:30-7:30 - General Q and A panel with all remaining speakers (including Libidoescape from last year's event)
Doc Holiday - This guy I would consider taking a bootcamp with.
* 7:30-8 - Wrap up and good byes
I highly recommend going to any convention, especially the under21 convention as soon as possible. It's great to meet guys who extend past your local lair. I met guys at all levels of experience. I got to meet a lot of guys in the DC Lair and the Metro DC PUA lair. There were a ton of PUA's from the DC Metro area who want to become more active in the lairs. #1 reason to go to this convention is to meet other good guys to sarge with and for wings. What made the difference between a quality instructor:
* Use of presentation technologies, some guys would have really benefitted from powerpoint
* Know your presentation - some guys probably could have rehearsed their presentation a lot more.
* Know your stories - the stories are true, but the best way to tell a story is proven.
* Interactive - the more interactive with the audience the pua was, pulling people on stage to demo, the more positive reaction.
Overall it was awesome and I recommend all my clients as a must-attend. I'll be in contact with the presenters and we'll see if I can have them down for a lair presentation sometime. I will see you guys there next year!
09-13-2008, 05:52 PM
I’ve been lazy and waited a long time to put up this review. I’m sure some people aren’t going to be happy with some of the words I say but I’m trying to be honest.
I was excited about the convention from the moment I heard about it. It was an incredible idea. There are so many young people out there that don’t have the resources to enjoy bootcamps from large companies like MM, Venusian Arts, or Real Social Dynamics. The notion of making the world of seduction and pickup tangible for lots of younger guys is commendable. Thanks to Dream for making this possible. I read off the list of speakers and I was excited not because of their fame but because they were going to be guys my age. I was 21 at the time.
After all the drama occurred, I was very disappointed. I don’t know what happened, but I would have liked to see the young successful pickup artists stay together for a convention to give something to the younger guys. I still thought the list of speakers was solid, and I knew some of the other attendees as well. It seemed like it was going to be a great weekend.
I got to my room and dropped my things. I wanted to meet someone who was somewhat familiar, even if I had met no one their previously in person. It’s amazing how well you think you know someone through emails and instant messenger. I called Manwhore and we chatted for a bit. He was at a buddy’s place near a university while I’m stuck in a hotel and know nobody, lucky bastard. Oh well, I had to make the best out of it. I called my roommate. He was unavailable because he actually managed to fly into the wrong city. He figured that out himself. I was running out of acquaitences. There was one guy left.
He was actually fairly quiet over internet communication. He asked very simple questions about game and the general consensus was that he was probably a newbie. I had no real expectations in regards to this individual who I’ll call John. I dialed his number and was greeted by a “sup dude”. I went to the lobby and met him. He was a cool guy and gave off an outgoing vibe. He had pretty good fashion sense with a solid sense of humor as well. I liked him right off the bat. He lead me to a room of other seduction community members. I strolled into a double bed hotel room fairly full of guys. One guy had an interesting looking straw hat. There were no introductions, just basic small talk. They all seemed like good guys. The conversation began to linger into nerd land with intricate discussions of social dynamics. It was similar to stories I’ve heard from members of Project Hollywood from the original participants. Apparently if you caught Mystery on the right day, you’d get an earful about social value, two hours worth if he wanted to keep it short. That’s not bad by any means, detail is needed for mastery but right when it started to cross the border to pickup nerd, it was time to hit the field.
There was a huge group of us. We all split up into smaller groups and got into large airport vans. There were guys there from all over. It was a pickup crew. Some guys had their nails done, some necklaces, the guy with the hat had some competition. I looked for a lion tamer to complete this circus spectacle but was disappointed. One individual had a voice that sounded like Christopher Walken on a bad day. It was only creepy when you were listening to him. Dream led the way. He began talking to us about our upcoming weekend.
This briefing took too long. First there were introductions, then preparation for the city and the people, then dream went through Tyler Durden’s 25 points. It gave too much time for us to get in our heads. I’m not very skilled. I need every edge I can get and starting in my head isn’t the best idea. Also, 25 points is too many things to name off at that time. I did feel that instructions on the city and different venues were beneficial.
An older man walked over and asked for the people that were over 21 to come with him. I stepped over and we started hitting sets. Right hand man, a 35+ yr old, gathered me and Summa together because we were over 21. The large group still was commencing and starting to split up. There needed to be more organization on how to split up the groups. “What would a newbie be considered?” This would spare time if done properly.
First off I would like to ask somebody, whether it’s Libido or anyone from the TOP lair, to tell Right Hand Man, that he was awesome or if somebody could pm me his email, I’d be appreciative. Before this weekend, I felt that older men had no real chance to get the 9s and 10s. That is TOTALLY not true. Right Hand Man proved that to me. His indirect approach wasn’t short of ideal. I had never been sold on indirect situational openers or the constant use of routine stacks. He sold me. He consistently opened 9 and 10s with ease. RHM was able to come in below the radar on girls that normally would have bitch shield galore and smoothly flow into set. He held the groups’ attention and successfully spiked attraction. We reached hook point 100% of the time. Winging with him gave me an entirely different perspective on the game. I have a lot of respect for him and highly recommend his tutelage.
In regards, to Summa, he had so much drive and enthusiasm. He pushed himself into every set. I hadn’t seen anything like it. He was a machine. He might have scared a person or two but he didn’t give a shit. He was an inspiration to myself to boost my own personal drive.
Me and Right Hand Man were ruling shit. We had the hottest chicks in Mako’s that night. We were # closing different girls. I had 2 gorgeous girls all over me in the corner. It was a party. RHM, I apologize again, for making out with his target. Downtown there are bars everywhere. It’s a great place to hit up. It’s my favorite city.
I met up with the younger guys and went back. I didn’t get to bed until late, probably around 5 or 6 am. I looked over at my roommate who said, “I’ll put my alarm on.”
Well thanks to a miscommunication, our alarms didn’t go off. I woke up comfortably in the afternoon. I could feel that something was wrong. Manwhore had sent me a few unpleasant texts while I was asleep. I went into the convention and Mehow was speaking. I’ve listened to the other sections since then but I’m only going to write about what I experienced.
Mehow had a great video of one of his sets. It was a set with him picking up someone’s wife. His explanation was great. He is a good teacher. He was fired up and energetic and bouncing all over the place. His videos online gave him a gay vibe, but in person I didn’t get see that. He is more centered in his own masculinity than the community gives him credit. Consider that this was also over a year ago and he was fairly newer to the scene.
His discussion focused on attraction and he was very good at it. He exuded positive responses to negativity in his sets and disarmed AMOGs with “cool”. On the second day he went into more detail on ways to gain instant attraction with his gimmicks and games that he uses in set. The guy never seemed to dip in his energy. He must be high on life.
Libido was an unknown to me. He blasted open his speech with a sex comment. I was all ears. He is tall and skinny with thin arms. He seemed nervous at first but sustained the social pressure comfortably as the speech continued. It was apparent that he spoke from his core self. He had some interesting stories but they all contained useful advice. He gave us examples of his “brat frame” and leading all his interactions with a fun twist. Libido told us his tactic of convincing girls to bring him a muffin when coming over for day 2s. He enjoys the look on their face when they open the refrigerator to set their muffin next to a few others that have made a visit that week.
He spoke some on peacocking. I don’t like doing that type of thing but it was useful. Libido spoke true to his advice as well and I saw him later that night in a toga. He also gave the crowd some tidbits on phone game. He likes to call all the time, whenever he has an available second. I liked Libido’s advice on getting a girl to come over at 4am. He uses constant teasing and uses the length of the time they’ve been talking as an excuse for her to drive over. “You’ve been talking to me for 15 minutes. You could be here already.” He then leads the girl step by step through the process. “Why haven’t you gotten your shoes on.” This is all playful of course.
He gave us some information on setting up relationship expectations after sex. For a one night stand he uses “That was fun.” For a potential FB, “That was amazing.” The key was emphasizing the sexual experience specifically. To the best of my memory the trick with setting up a potential LTR after sex was building comfort. Libido even informed us that he’s closed girls that didn’t speak the English language.
Libido went on to discuss various types of girls. He made Dutch girls sound very appealing. “We’re not sluts. That’s just the way we are.” He said that his attitude is described as cheeky by British girls. In my own experience British girls are snappy with orthodontic needs. I’m sure they have a lot of fun with his quick wit.
After the speeches on the first day, I got to talk with Manwhore and a couple others for a bit. Then it was time to get some food.
I conversed with a few other convention participants. They were all great guys. I met some guys that seemed to be coming from the same “nice guy” place that I was. There were some socially mis-calibrated guys as well but nothing too awkward. They all talked highly of manwhore’s speech. Damn. After food, I went around and hit up a few sets with some random guys. Orlando has hot girls walking all over. I was very impressed.
The second night went well. I didn’t do as good but I met lots of girls and joked with the guys. We had a good time. I am fairly quiet but I was having a lot of fun. At one point I was standing on the side walk listening to some guy give tips to another on pulling and using a strong unquestionable lead. The guy teaching was in good shape and spoke with confidence. He had some weird makeup and he wore what I call a PUA bracelet. It’s a thick leather bracelet that I see a lot of PUAs wear. He seemed like a cool guy though and he knew what he was talking about. Guess what….that guy was Ratisse. He was teaching just to help somebody out and he seemed to enjoy helping this guy.
Some of the guys with political aspirations had aliases for the whole weekend. I met one guy that called himself “Jamison”. He was a great guy from Atlanta. It was nice to meet like minded people in pickup especially when in my area I am not exposed to others. A large group of us got burritos and just chilled. We all found taxis back to the hotel.
Next Day (Might be a bit out of order)
Nilatak had a great speech about identity. He doesn’t get rattled by tests of women. He gives them a look. He gave some pretty good advice but I remember reading a lot of it previously from other sources. I did enjoy it though.
Some things I want to discuss before I continue. Simply put, ***** spent too much time and effort promoting himself and his company. I really am just going to leave it at that because I don’t think it’s good to dwell too much on it. Just for his knowledge, he was sold. Nobody I’ve talked to questioned his methodology or abilities just that he pushed his company too much throughout his talk. If you’re on stage, people believe you deserve to be there. If they don’t, they probably aren’t going to buy a program regardless. I am going to try to focus on other aspects of his talk.
***** took the concept of identity and approached it from another angle. Whereas guys like Manwhore and Nilatak addressed the topic as an internal issue for improvement, ***** took an external side. It’s a discussion in the community. Some feel that changing your life using external attractive factors will lead to the success that will thus lead to the confidence needed to transform yourself. Others preach that it starts from within. Big names like Jlaix, TylerDurden, or Sinn speak on this rhetoric or finding the success but not being the people they were meant to be and falling into a dark place while others like Mystery or ***** speak of finding the success in a positive light. *****’s advice was definitely conflicting in some regards but it was a convention and different people have different perceptions of the journey.
***** talked about creating an identity that is attractive whether it is a producer or director for example. He went through his day. He sleeps mostly during the day and parties hard at night like a rockstar. ***** discussed unlocking that “pick up artist inside you and becoming the routines”. He then showed us his video demonstrating anchoring positions.
The video took place in a bookstore. He approached a girl and held a good interaction which ended on film in a number close. The fun apparently didn’t stop there according to ***** who said he full montied her that night. The audio was low. It was difficult to decipher the conversation. I liked his various anchors. I didn’t like a couple positions because they can be uncomfortable if held for too long. *****’s presentation was decent and gave me a new perspective on some game topics.
I finally got to see Manwhore. Manwhore was white, medium height, with a muscular build and a bald head. He dressed casually. He spoke authoritatively with firm belief in things he said. Manwhore didn’t seem like the type to easily get rattled, shaken, or nervous. He was very relaxed in front of the crowd. Manwhore could probably sit down have a beer and watch TV in view of lots of people and proudly scratch his nuts. He just didn’t seem to care, and he had fun with it as well. He supported the pressure with ease. He came off strong and projected himself well. He had stitches in his forehead like Frankenstein and braces on his teeth. Maybe I should get blasted in the head, it might get me laid too. I liked his speech a lot. It brought lots of value and I’m a big supporter of his teachings.
During this presentation, he talked a bit about tonality. He discussed some things on physical escalation in accordance with cave manning. The bulk of his talk was on the first day which I sadly missed. This section wasn’t focused on early stages of the interaction as it was being the person you were meant to be. He discussed dealing with some obstacles like girls that test and parents that get in the way. He answered a few questions from the audience then stepped down.
Mehow discussed the specifics on creating instant attraction in set with his use of games and gimmicks. Things like ESP and the shapes routine he has demoed on youtube. It has never been my style, but he made it seem effective. He said that he has all the attraction he’ll ever need after one of those routines. I liked it. His company at the time was pursuing the “sniper” tactic or the ability to achieve and attract the girl of your choice. He then started to pump his book that was soon to be released. Mehow offers pools of value in his teachings and he breaks them down to every last detail. One interesting part is he said that he is able to get physical attraction with his hat on yet only emotional with his hat off. It shows that he is very perceptive to be able to pinpoint that. He gave us some book recommendations as well and answered some questions.
Orleans was a shorter, white rugged guy with good fashion sense. He had a bit of facial hair with a serious look in his eyes with a dash of arrogance in his vibe. His personality reminded me a lot of Jlaix. It was obvious that he gets laid a lot. He spoke about himself and his experience in the game. It was pretty inspiring. Orleans and Dream as well didn’t smile that much throughout the convention. They both seemed focused.
Orleans went on to tell us a pretty good story about a quick pull he had. From there he transitioned into the Dicarlo escalation ladder. My only complaint about the speech is that looking back it sends mixed signals. Opening with a great story on the effectiveness of quick escalation and being open physically then the rhetoric transforms to a slower rhythm when escalating and progressing. When you’re viewing the big picture, it can come off confusing. The ladder itself was innovative. He broke down every step in progression all the way up to sex. I liked the method of inserting the fingers inside the girl from the back instead of the front like most men do. One listener from Brazil asked “How do I get my hand back there if I’m on top?”
Orleans replied, “Just shove it down there.”
The person responded, “But….I like big girls.” We all had a good laugh over that one.
He gave us a speech with his girlfriend on fashion. I liked it. He gave us many examples on standing out and not following trends too closely. There was no talk on attraction or typical community jargon. It was typical socially conditioned advice which isn’t a bad thing at all. He even gave the guys a bit of a workout program. I liked his presentation and it gave me some fashion insights even though regrettably I don’t have a lot of the financial resources to go on a shopping spree.
I had heard a lot of negatives about Dream prior to this convention. The guy showed me nothing but focus and discipline in his actions throughout that weekend. He seemed hard pressed to keep everything working smoothly, poor guy. I fully appreciate his efforts and dedication not only to the game but also the community. He is giving a lot. I have much respect for him. I’ll donate some money if you need it by the way once I get my full time job. I just got out of college. His talks were pretty good as well because he seemed to only talk from experience. Props man, thanks again.
We went out again that night but it wasn’t that great. I got there super late thanks to a hold up. The venue was super loud and everybody seemed tired. Slikk was bouncing around though doing his thing backing it up on girls. I hit a couple sets that went alright. Thaddeus was there as well. Thaddeus or The Deuche is a shorter white guy with some type of accent. He is pretty funny and there is never an awkward pause when talking to him. He got a really hot bartender’s number that night. Go Thaddeus. Following this was probably the worst part of the convention. We all had to sit outside for hours waiting for transportation. It was bad and boring. Orleans and Vincent Chase were pretty entertaining though and they told many stories. John by this point in the weekend had EXPLODED. He was getting massive attraction from tons of sets and owning groups and having a great time doing it. Those three guys made the wait seem short. They’re cool guys. Finally some mode of transportation showed up and off we went back to the hotel. I woke up the next day with my roommate gone, he had to leave early to catch his flight. I used my extra day to go to Gatorland and then Disney World. Fun times.
For anyone out there considering a convention, I’d highly recommend it. It’s not expensive and unlike other places you’ll get a mixed view on pickup. You’ll naturally connect with the material that is you regardless, but it’s still good to hear from a variety of sources. It’s not expensive at all. This particular one was only $40. The speakers put themselves out there on stage for no financial compensation. They do it because they love to help people. Aside from that, Orlando is a good city for pickup and it’ll get you away from the pickup sanctuaries that some venues become in LA where there could be 30 PUAs in one bar. The women are gorgeous, plentiful, and diverse as well. It is worth the trip for a guy of any skill level.
Dream did an amazing job. He was only a teenager and he pulled it off. Congratulations and thank you.
09-14-2008, 10:47 AM
01-24-2009, 12:00 PM
Under21Convention 2008 Footage
I have seen a ton of DVDs on Pick up. I have watched the Annihilation Method». I have seen the entire Mind of Mystery. I have recently finished with the Jeffy Show. The Footage from this convention definitely beats the content most of the other people are putting out.
IMHO this is not really a product for the novice. They don't talk about the classic how to open, FTC rehash stuff. There is quite a lot for guys over twenty one as well as under twenty-one.
Now I am going to go into each speaker
So Dream catches a bad rap a lot of the time, but the guy seriously put in some work to get this out. His speech is solid, and he spends a lot of time talking about his own personal transformation. Later he speaks about nutrition and health. If you guys are into that Dream knows his stuff. The guy lost a ton of weight, and exercises constantly.
I have to admit this speech changed entirely how I was doing my game in college. Helped me a ton. His speech is about college game, and social circle stuff in general. He really threw out a bunch of ideas that I hadn't been using. This really helped me.
This was an interesting speech. It centered around qualification, and more specifically how to use it as a training tool. He goes through how to combine cold reading and qualification to get women to behave the way you want. Interesting speech to say the least. Very cool stuff here. Also a very young guy, so he has some stuff to say about non bar or club venues. He also gets into problem centric training versus goal centric training which is a problem I think a lot of new guys around here have.
This speech centered around setting goals, and leveraging yourself to get out and do stuff. He also goes over things like limiting beliefs and being in the moment during pick up. Far from revolutionary idea, but a decent perspective.
I have to admit this is one of my favorite speeches. Sinn starts off showing his new cyclical model. It s an interesting approach, but perhaps a little over complicated. He talks about using qualification as a way to measure where a girl is at. He has some very cool stories to tell. A lot about beliefs. He also gets into instant attraction and how to come in with a ton of value.
Ratisse starts off discussing phone game. This actually helped me because mine is traditionally weak. Then he shifts into something he calls Sexual Priming. Its actually pretty cool. Its a lot about making sex a forgone conclusion and avoiding the 20 min set to no where. He is very much one of the guys into fast pulls and bathroom pulls. Not the most entertaining of speakers, but good content.
Nautilus and Right Hand Man
So this was interesting and pretty fresh. These guys take it back a little away from the opinion openers and the close every set mentality. They go with the social approach. The find the sets that are interested and exploit that. The discuss a mentality of absolutely no chasing, which sounds old, but rejects a lot of community standards. Its puts a lot of pressure on the girl to make the move. These two guys are more worried about appearances, because since they both own businesses, they cannot make fools of themselves in public. A pretty cool speech overall.
This is by far my favorite speech. I spent half the time laughing. Good stories. He does have some interesting ideas about how to go about gaming. He talks about how to kino correctly with out making it a big deal. He gets into bypassing LMR. He also discusses how to build a group of women purely to take out to use as social proof. A great idea that I plan to implement very soon myself.
Mehow comes close to sounding like an hour long commercial about how awesome he is, and how you need his products. There is some value to pull out of it however. He puts on a video of himself in field and then goes through step by step of everything he is doing in pretty excruciating detail. He also goes over how he and his wings work together in field. The winging method he uses is pretty interesting and revolves around everyone holding sets and then cross merging them for value and as a safety net each time a set fails.
His speech is all about inner game. I would have to say it is less about Pick up and more about being a leader, and being dominant. He ties the both back to the game constantly, but these are life skills that women just happen to love. Manwhore is less routine oriented because he came from just being a natural to begin with. He has a good take on inner game being present in the moment.
EL Topo, and the Practical Pickup guys.
This was fairly dominated by Doc Holiday and El Topo. Doc spends most of his time talking about day game and to be frank it totally changed how I was doing my day game stuff. El Topo gets into routine stacks and how you can build comfort while building attraction. This guys is freaking hilarious, if not a little twisted.
I found most of the speeches to be entertaining as well as informative. It has the feel to it like a conversation with another pua does where you sit around and exchange funny stories and tips. All in all this is one of the better products in the community. I have to say it beats the hell out of the Mind of Mystery, and it costs 2850 dollars less. It runs at about 170 bucks. Its almost Twenty hours of Footage.
This is one of the better products i have seen on the market.
09-27-2009, 12:34 PM
My e-book, and it's hundreds of pages of bonus content- are now free to the world, no strings attached, no bs.
View it online at scribd.com, download it, print it, share it, do as you wish. Find it here (http://www.the21convention.com/2009/09/27/the-dream-way-340-pages-of-bonus-content-now-free-to-the-world/) on the main convention site.
05-23-2010, 09:44 AM
Can't believe I never posted a 2009 review here.
Anyway, this is my favorite one from a 3 year attendee. Check it out on his blog at
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