fire mike long?

[gbwb]

Post here if you think he should or should not be fired.

Feel free to acknowledge or deny claims of A) douchebaggery, B) emails (that should speak for itself), C) lying, D) not actually having anything to do with being a pua or the community, E) Helping/Ruining Mystery's business,
or just give your own personal oppinion.

I personally still believe in mystery and wish VA the best. After about 6months back in the online portion of the community, since i left last time, I have yet to hear one real person say a good word about him. I figure VA deserves a chance to see, in one thread, whether or not their market actually likes this portion of their "avatar".

Just felt like this had to be done, and out of personal curiosity for the results.

[Michael7001]

His emails seemed to have been written via the colloborative efforts of the Used Car Salesmen Coalition. I was so sick of hearing about "waves of panic" and the fact that "people are really freaking out." I received the pre-sale emails during the week prior to the opening date....that email supposedly went out to a "select few." A select few? At the end of each email he felt it necessary to tell me about the French, Russian, Latvian, Armenian, girl that was waiting in the lobby , etc, etc, presumably due to the PU magic gained through this life changing DVD collection. He put me in a position where I could not have bought this set lest I feel I was being severely taken advantage of....regardless of the merits of the product.

I haven't seen the collection, only the marketing. Mike Long is clearly an intelligent guy. So, two things are possible: 1) They put together a half assed product that only a used car salesman could peddle, or 2) They picked the wrong marketer for this thing.

If they were simply looking for 500 idiots for a quick 1.25 million, maybe Long hit the target.

I went to Long's "Area 51 for the marketing world" site......not sure what he's trying accomplish there. I suspect he's formulating his own version of the Magnum Opus for web marketers -- meant to give an "unfair advantage" to prospective buyers. HHe probably assumed he would have received a better response from Magnum Opus clients, using that traffic to further his own marketing site etc....

In one video he (or his partner) talk about the unprecented email response (86%) regarding the percentage of Magnum Opus email recipients who had opened the email.....Uhhh, yeah....Not rocket science here. This product was targeted at the VH1 PUA crowd (me) who had just discovered Mystery. Example: If I was an aspiring actor and Robert Deniro released a "full proof" set of DVD's that was guaranteed to get me an acting gig in Hollywood, and he was personally responding to emails and making video's on a low key, personal website which required me to input my email address and wait for subsequents email from Deniro, I would certainly open any emails that were sent with his name on it.....Some of the emails from Mike had Mystery's name on it, some Mike's...I suspect these numbers (86%) represent the one of the email sent with Mystery's name on it. Who wouldn't answer this email??? Nothing amazing about this percentage...

Mike's goal is to make a quick buck. Mystery's goal is, I assume, to cultivate the PU community while making money along the way (nothing wrong with that). You have a long term goal vs. a short sighted objective. VA should probably reassess this relationship, unless they are also in it to make a quick buck. If I was Mystery and had already made a few million, a quick $600,000 (est % or profits) to ruin my name in the community wouldn't come close to being worth it......

[Venutian]

Hey guys,

As long as demands are high, they can sell garbage as long as people buy the products. You don't have to agree with what they do, but you have to realize he still has fans all over the world with his methods. The VH1 show was a great marketing for VA. These guys also has bills to pay, project miami, lawyers fees that deals with Savoy and old MM website, etc. Just think of it this way, use his materials and get a group together in your home town and become better. Create your own materials and concepts and run your own training. Just look at MeHow, he is now running his own show plus he wrote his own ebook.

[gbwb]

This thread isnt about any "product". It is a question, is VA better off without mike long? Its unnecessary to discuss whether or not VA can "do whatever they want" because it is obvious. I think its narrow minded to view a review forum as solely serving the public, it serves the host company as well because they can gain insight into market response. In the end, this thread could serve to defend mike long's place in the company if noone complains.

Im aware VA is probably just gauging the viability of teh community against the viability of the VH1 crowd and opting to market to the most vulnerable/profitable group. It would be in their business interests to perhaps ditch the community in order to persue the more profitable market, but if everyone on both sides of the fence is turned off by him enough to go to a different line of products, i think it is in VA's interest to protect themselves from that. Why would I care enough to look out for their business? I wouldn't, but Im personally annoyed by mike long.

So if anyone else sees this and wants to respond, give VA some info, are you community (been into "pickup" for more than a year?) or are you VH1(saw the show, thought it was cool and wanted to know more) and did or did you not buy any VA products as a result of the recently adopted style of email advertisements they've been doing. OR just say you think mike long is great, or you think he isnt.

[Venutian]

GBWB,
Your thread is about firing Mike Long. Who cares about his marketing non-sense. Shit is working! The demand is high and people are signing up like crazy. You may not agree with his tactics, but as long as people are signing up and buying the products, why spoil it?

The bottom line is money talks bull shit walks. VA is making money and thats the the goal of the company. Dude, I don't like it but if shit is working, let it be. It is what it is... Information isn't free you know!

[Couture]

Mike Schlong kicks ass.... just unsubscriber you whiners.

This is the only forum I've ever seen that gives as much unsolicited business advice, if not more, as youngentrepreneur.com

[limen]

Ive sent VA three messages and called them and they still havent refunded my money for the mom program.

[NewRoutine]

Ive sent VA three messages and called them and they still havent refunded my money for the mom program.

Oh man, I was waiting for this. All right Limen heres what you do, keep in mind that I've worked fraud cases in the UK as well as the US so I have a good idea of how to handle this (even though most of my cases deal with money laundering and embezzlement).

Heres the deal, as you probably have already figured out Mike Long used the money back gurantee as a selling point to get you to buy MOM. Unfortunatly a lot of companies do this and then go out of their way to avoid any attempt by customers to make good on the money back gurantee that was originally promised to them.

I once helped a (very stupid) friend of mine get his money back on a program called motor-millions by Dean Graziosi (who ironically has attended David D's marketing seminars, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kwtei1jIJ0). The company made every attempt to discourage my friend, who had spent over 3 grand, to give up on the money back gurantee but by pulling some strings we were able to get it out of them, though I will admit it was a tiring process. I could go on about Dean's pyramid scheme but thats another thread all together.

Personally, I fucking hate it when businesses do this to people, so helping you take down Mike Long and friends will be a pleasure. So without further ado.


********************************
Your best friend right now is your records
********************************

* Your emails, telephones records, credit card bills, bank statements, and written proof of the money back gurantee are going to be your ammo. Without these you're pretty much dead in the water.

If it ever gets to the point where you feel that VA will never refund your money, then you will need to recruit the services of the Better Business Bureau and The Federal Trade Commision, however without records there will be little they can do to assist you.

* Also invest in a tape recorder. Then when you call VA ask for permission to record the converstation (note: You can't record someone for the purpose of gathering evidence without their consent or a warent from the government), the more proof you can accumulate the better your chances of getting your money back.

* VERY IMPORTANT: By law, if VA does agree to refund your money then they must do so within 7 days. If they say that it'll take a month or two to complete the transaction tell them bullshit. It took them seconds to draw money from your credit card or bank account and by law they can't take more then 7 days without filing for bankruptcy.

* I hope you paid for this using your credit card. If you did then its just like somone handed you a fully equiped aircraft carrier to take on VA.

What you need to do in this case is call your credit card company and explain the situation. Obviosly they will ask you to provide records, especially those concerning your attempts to get your money back (emails and phone records).

The great thing about credit card companies is they have entire legal departments dedicated to handling situations like the one you're in now. Once you provide them with the necessary information they will be able to take on VA on your behalf at no cost to you.

* If you didn't pay with your credit card then you will have to recruit your bank to help you. Though IME they aren't as equiped as the Credit Card Companies in dealing with situations like these. Never the less, in most cases they will help you.

* Also if at any point you feel that VA will not refund your money it will help to file reports with the Better Business Bureau (http://welcome.bbb.org/) and The Federal Trade Commision (https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01). These attempts will provide you not only with more people to help you against VA but it will also allow you to prove effort on your part to your credit card company or bank.

* If VA continues to avoid making good on the money back gurantee then you're going to have to hit the streets. Send an email saying that if they continue to avoid refunding your money, then you will exercise your right to post your experience with VA in public. IE you'll post your dilema on all the major seduction forums including Mystery Method, Fast Seduction, and the VA forum. Since word of mouth is important in the community you will be able to deal a blow to the credibility of this business.

* Also make sure to post reports on www.ripoffreport.com and www.quackwatch.com, but only if VA refuses to cooperate.

***********
In Conclusion
***********
The two most important things for you to do are to keep records including all attempts to contact VA, your personal financial statements, and written proof of the money back gurantee.

Then call your credit card company and explain the situation. After that they'll tell you what to do.

Also remember by law they have to refund your money in seven days, so don't accept them telling you that it'll take a month or two get your money back.

I hope this helps. Good luck.

[Holliday]

I think Mike should stay. I recently replied to a similar post, which you can find here.

http://www.venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?p=84333#post84333

Please read.

-Holliday