TheMusicMan
10-22-2007, 05:52 PM
Hey all...
Just got back from the Atlantic City 2007 Bootcamp. I know
before I signed up for a BC, I read every review I could
find, so I figured this could help others out about knowing
what it's like. (Plus some of the students in the class
said they wanted to post some comments here...which means
time to kick off the thread).
INSTRUCTORS: Major thanks to Matador and Brock for
helping making my Sat night success happen (I kept
hammering them both with questions when I was in set - see
below). Matador's main role is a guest instructor during
the day, and someone to demo what is possible at night.
(Yes, everything you've read about his "powers" is
true.)...so the opportunity to get critiques and feedback
from him was good.
Hawaii was very down to earth and was all about giving us
practical "how to" info that would work in field.
Unfortunately, I never got to open sets with him (simply
because of logistics each night...I ended up with Matador
or Brock)...but the people who worked with him had good
things to say. He's low key and very "chill" - which goes
a long way in my book. And also helped get A1-A2 material
stack going for us - thanks for giving us HOFBELS Hawaii!
Brock is great - he's got style and I thought he was very
cool (turns out we have a very similiar background, so I
really hit it off with him...and he gave me great advice to
hit the kiss close).
And a new star on the scene (who will probably
become a new trainer for VA at some point) was Knack.
Every student was raving about him - he stayed with us
every single minute of the weekend and was only concerned
with making sure we were learning stuff. He was very
aggressive about getting people into sets. At first, that
turned me off, but I very quickly warmed up to him and have
a lot of respect for his style and personality (I heard
nothing but praise for him). Keep your eye out for this
guy - thanks for being so helpful Knack.
PROS: Being in a long-term relationship up
until recently, this weekend was a "drink from the
firehose" experience since I haven't had a chance to go out
and do this in the past. My goal going into it was a kiss
close...and after Friday's "demo night" (where you see the
trainers in action) - I was suddenly realizing how complex
this is and decided to settle for just good A1, A2 and A3
for Sat night.
Well, come Sat night (after building up confidence on
Saturday during our roleplaying, etc.) - I realized it
would be possible. In fact, I was fortunate enough to open
a few sets each night with Matador himself...and while I
was aiming to open 10+ sets on Saturday night..the 2nd set
I opened...I locked in with (not going to share ALL the
details here)...and spent 2 hours with my gal (Matador was
on the other side of our VIP booth with his gal)...and
ended up kiss closing her using help from Brock and some
kino techniques from Knack and Matador. While there was
still better A2/A3 that could have been done...WOO HOO. :)
I also did open a couple other hot sets too.
And I kissed her at the end of the night (she kissed me a few
times before she left actually) and number closed her.
Considering this was first time really out gaming at this
level, I was quite happy - and she even had a head on her
shoulders and some good brains. ;)
The combination of "infield" and "theory" was very
valuable. ALL of the trainers knew their shit cold. There
was no BS with them - they are the real deal. Let's just
say they had very good evenings both nights. ;)
CONS: I'll be honest, I gave them a poor
review on the forms early in the day Sunday when were asked
to review (it was mainly the "workshop" portion I felt this
way about - not necessarily because of the content, but
because of the way it was run). The way the forms were set
up, I really didn't have an "inbetween" option. I would
revise my review now a bit based on the content covered
later in the day on Sunday and the chance to have my
personal questions answered by Hawaii and Matador.
The biggest drawbacks I (and from talking with other
students) experienced was a lack of organization during the
day portions.
A 5 minute break would last 30 minutes. And while we always
went several hours late, we never started on time (Sunday
ended at 1am...and Matador was covering GREAT content...but
if we hadn't started 2.5 hours late on Sunday...we wouldn't
have ended that late either - we did debriefs with Knack
starting on time on Sunday, but most of us had already
discussed our field reports with each other at that point,
instead of needed to do it for another 2.5-3 hours before
things got started). And sometimes we'd get off on a
tangent from a student question that had nothing to do with
where were in the workshop or what Matador or Hawaii were
covering.
Many of us were also hoping to get the "routine guides"
they were passing around for us to look at, but alas, they
wouldn't give us a copy of them...which left us to either
sit there and hand copy anything that sparked our interest
(and miss out on the teaching being shared during the day
while we tried to furiously hand copy tons of material).
Yes, really artful game isn't about routines...but about
the psychology behind the interaction...and the MPUAs
teaching us...definitely don't rely on routine guides. But
for us newbies...that type of stuff is needed in the
beginning (especially at $4k/person - that's not a small
amount, especially for many of the students there). I've
been to a good deal of $5k, $10k and $15k bootcamps,
seminars and workshops in a variety of niches - so I'm
using that as my baseline for this and for how they can be
run and delivered. I know the company is still very young,
so hopefully the professionalism of the way the event is
run (and the handouts you get) will improve for future BCs.
It should for the investment.
OVERALL: It was a good learning experience
that really opened my eyes to what is possible. And it
also opened our eyes to how this impacts OTHER areas of
your life too - it's not about getting laid all the time
(it can be if that's what you want though)...it's got a lot
greater implication for how you approach your life and
challenges.
This is a high pricepoint obviously and the real value will
come from this if you are willing to go outside your
comfort zone a bit (you can only expect so much from
external forces)...and if you are willing to ASK QUESTIONS
when you are confused or stuck.
Even though I came down hard on how the day portion was
run, the trainers were all VERY accessible and
willing to answer ANYTHING and EVERYTHING asked. For me,
that interaction was very valuable...far beyond anything
you can get in a book (especially since the TV show burned
some of the good lines from the book).
You simply can't make this type of progress this quickly
without a BC-type coaching experience.
Also, there was value (as there is at any live event)
in the networking portion. I made some great new friends,
both with the students AND the trainers. A $4k
customer/student is much different than a $20 book buyer,
so you're getting people who aren't just talking about
it...but who are actually doing it and serious about
investing into it. This is something I can see continuing
with - and already have plans to get back in the field with
some of the folks from this weekend. (And I could see
myself working in field with some of the trainers again).
Okay - that's all folks...time for dinner. Hopefully that
helps those of you who are unsure or are on the fence! :)
Best wishes,
TMM
Just got back from the Atlantic City 2007 Bootcamp. I know
before I signed up for a BC, I read every review I could
find, so I figured this could help others out about knowing
what it's like. (Plus some of the students in the class
said they wanted to post some comments here...which means
time to kick off the thread).
INSTRUCTORS: Major thanks to Matador and Brock for
helping making my Sat night success happen (I kept
hammering them both with questions when I was in set - see
below). Matador's main role is a guest instructor during
the day, and someone to demo what is possible at night.
(Yes, everything you've read about his "powers" is
true.)...so the opportunity to get critiques and feedback
from him was good.
Hawaii was very down to earth and was all about giving us
practical "how to" info that would work in field.
Unfortunately, I never got to open sets with him (simply
because of logistics each night...I ended up with Matador
or Brock)...but the people who worked with him had good
things to say. He's low key and very "chill" - which goes
a long way in my book. And also helped get A1-A2 material
stack going for us - thanks for giving us HOFBELS Hawaii!
Brock is great - he's got style and I thought he was very
cool (turns out we have a very similiar background, so I
really hit it off with him...and he gave me great advice to
hit the kiss close).
And a new star on the scene (who will probably
become a new trainer for VA at some point) was Knack.
Every student was raving about him - he stayed with us
every single minute of the weekend and was only concerned
with making sure we were learning stuff. He was very
aggressive about getting people into sets. At first, that
turned me off, but I very quickly warmed up to him and have
a lot of respect for his style and personality (I heard
nothing but praise for him). Keep your eye out for this
guy - thanks for being so helpful Knack.
PROS: Being in a long-term relationship up
until recently, this weekend was a "drink from the
firehose" experience since I haven't had a chance to go out
and do this in the past. My goal going into it was a kiss
close...and after Friday's "demo night" (where you see the
trainers in action) - I was suddenly realizing how complex
this is and decided to settle for just good A1, A2 and A3
for Sat night.
Well, come Sat night (after building up confidence on
Saturday during our roleplaying, etc.) - I realized it
would be possible. In fact, I was fortunate enough to open
a few sets each night with Matador himself...and while I
was aiming to open 10+ sets on Saturday night..the 2nd set
I opened...I locked in with (not going to share ALL the
details here)...and spent 2 hours with my gal (Matador was
on the other side of our VIP booth with his gal)...and
ended up kiss closing her using help from Brock and some
kino techniques from Knack and Matador. While there was
still better A2/A3 that could have been done...WOO HOO. :)
I also did open a couple other hot sets too.
And I kissed her at the end of the night (she kissed me a few
times before she left actually) and number closed her.
Considering this was first time really out gaming at this
level, I was quite happy - and she even had a head on her
shoulders and some good brains. ;)
The combination of "infield" and "theory" was very
valuable. ALL of the trainers knew their shit cold. There
was no BS with them - they are the real deal. Let's just
say they had very good evenings both nights. ;)
CONS: I'll be honest, I gave them a poor
review on the forms early in the day Sunday when were asked
to review (it was mainly the "workshop" portion I felt this
way about - not necessarily because of the content, but
because of the way it was run). The way the forms were set
up, I really didn't have an "inbetween" option. I would
revise my review now a bit based on the content covered
later in the day on Sunday and the chance to have my
personal questions answered by Hawaii and Matador.
The biggest drawbacks I (and from talking with other
students) experienced was a lack of organization during the
day portions.
A 5 minute break would last 30 minutes. And while we always
went several hours late, we never started on time (Sunday
ended at 1am...and Matador was covering GREAT content...but
if we hadn't started 2.5 hours late on Sunday...we wouldn't
have ended that late either - we did debriefs with Knack
starting on time on Sunday, but most of us had already
discussed our field reports with each other at that point,
instead of needed to do it for another 2.5-3 hours before
things got started). And sometimes we'd get off on a
tangent from a student question that had nothing to do with
where were in the workshop or what Matador or Hawaii were
covering.
Many of us were also hoping to get the "routine guides"
they were passing around for us to look at, but alas, they
wouldn't give us a copy of them...which left us to either
sit there and hand copy anything that sparked our interest
(and miss out on the teaching being shared during the day
while we tried to furiously hand copy tons of material).
Yes, really artful game isn't about routines...but about
the psychology behind the interaction...and the MPUAs
teaching us...definitely don't rely on routine guides. But
for us newbies...that type of stuff is needed in the
beginning (especially at $4k/person - that's not a small
amount, especially for many of the students there). I've
been to a good deal of $5k, $10k and $15k bootcamps,
seminars and workshops in a variety of niches - so I'm
using that as my baseline for this and for how they can be
run and delivered. I know the company is still very young,
so hopefully the professionalism of the way the event is
run (and the handouts you get) will improve for future BCs.
It should for the investment.
OVERALL: It was a good learning experience
that really opened my eyes to what is possible. And it
also opened our eyes to how this impacts OTHER areas of
your life too - it's not about getting laid all the time
(it can be if that's what you want though)...it's got a lot
greater implication for how you approach your life and
challenges.
This is a high pricepoint obviously and the real value will
come from this if you are willing to go outside your
comfort zone a bit (you can only expect so much from
external forces)...and if you are willing to ASK QUESTIONS
when you are confused or stuck.
Even though I came down hard on how the day portion was
run, the trainers were all VERY accessible and
willing to answer ANYTHING and EVERYTHING asked. For me,
that interaction was very valuable...far beyond anything
you can get in a book (especially since the TV show burned
some of the good lines from the book).
You simply can't make this type of progress this quickly
without a BC-type coaching experience.
Also, there was value (as there is at any live event)
in the networking portion. I made some great new friends,
both with the students AND the trainers. A $4k
customer/student is much different than a $20 book buyer,
so you're getting people who aren't just talking about
it...but who are actually doing it and serious about
investing into it. This is something I can see continuing
with - and already have plans to get back in the field with
some of the folks from this weekend. (And I could see
myself working in field with some of the trainers again).
Okay - that's all folks...time for dinner. Hopefully that
helps those of you who are unsure or are on the fence! :)
Best wishes,
TMM