Proposed Change in Terminology

[Mimicita]

I would like to propose a slight change to PUA terminology. Currently, the accepted term for a girl of interest (or simply somebody you're planning to put your moves on in an effort to slightly improve your chances of performing the reproductive act) is "target". In my opinion, the term "victim" is much more accurate, since it serves as a much better description of your intentions. Play your game on her, get her to go home with you, and then leave her disappointed. She'll certainly feel like a victim because you'll leave her with feelings of regret and anger.

Whoever refers to girls as "targets" lacks any fundamental respect for women as HUMAN BEINGS. So why not call them "victims"? There is no need for sugar coating.

[Poetry]

Victims, Targets -- either way my motto is "Leave each other better than you found each other."

I'm fine using both, [shrugs]

[Clove]

I have NO reason to believe that they are "victims" over "targets"

A PUA that games a girl and goes home with her, is she not happy? Isn't she enjoying him in her? YES. SHE DOES. PUA isn't some blatant mistreatment of women or women wouldn't be so susceptible to our ways. You are either a pissed off woman that crusades feminism and vagina freedom whatever, or you are a guy that is angry at the AMOGs that know how to PLEASE a woman and make her attraction buzz.

I would even be so inclined to say that the PUAs used to be the victims of countless HB's and SHB's during their life. We are taking revenge. =P

[ReallyPatheticFatSlob]

Wtf?????????????????

[JekDaPUA]

this is ridiculous

must be a woman

reality is PUA'in isn't about being deceptive or using women.. its about having a loop hole around the unwritten social norms.. that prevent guys who are nice, or may not be "so physical appealing".. in with a chance to make a connection

and its beneficial to everyone.. but like everything if you put fire in the hands of the wrong person sure it can be dangerous.. you can't really prevent that from happening, but the generalization your making is a ridiculous one

They are called targets because there is this certain underlying theme "the game" and its just a useful term in relation to the metaphor..

so please stop with your female liberation as though men are repressing your very being as a woman.. if you want things to change about yourself or women in general stop blaming everyone.. inner peace and acceptance is the only key to freedom

enough of this "men make women this way"..
"He makes me so Angry"
"He doesn't treat me with respect"
"Men are all bastards"

those are all personal internal issues.. has nothing to do with either species, in the end we are all apart of the same being of existence.. we r in essence everything and no-thing.
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[Girl_in_the_Room]

For myself, I know I'm no "victim"

This stuff here is to give men tangible, practical strategies to step outside of their own heads, fear, anxiety, and have a means to approach women and a guideline on how to proceed after getting the nerve to say "hi."

These strategies are tools. It's no different than all the strategies that women exchange with each other in how to "attract" or "get" a guy. Just because a few guys are jackasses, doesn't mean that is the fault of the MM or PUA in general. Those guys have abused the strategies and I'm OK with the idea of them burning in their own personal Hell. Really. I also know plenty of women who have used "strategies" to get men into bed (or worse) and then turned around and hurt them unnecessarily and with incredible self-centeredness.

i.e., the opportunities to hurt each other will always be there. The words and labels can have power. If you don't like the term "target" (which I've heard used in the entertainment industry to describe the specific person in the audience intended for a certain event) then you can always try for the Scientific dehumanizing and objective term "subject."

Either way -- all of the individuals here have personal responsibility to conduct themselves honorably towards all other human beings. If they abandon that intentionally, without conscience hurt someone, let the chips fall where they may.

Let's ask the questions on which behaviors cross that line. But if we are to have a meaningful discussion, it can't start by blaming the entire PUA/Seduction community for the foul actions of a few.

I don't know how else to say it.

[JekDaPUA]

Have you noticed that with most stereotypes what will distinguish them will always be whatever negativity can be brought to surface? even if realistically its a small percentile of the overall "stereotype" itself

[Girl_in_the_Room]

Have you noticed that with most stereotypes what will distinguish them will always be whatever negativity can be brought to surface? even if realistically its a small percentile of the overall "stereotype" itself

Absolutely. good observation.

Blame games. Social control and oppression. Embedded financial interests. Political power. Military power. How to control masses in times of war or other elevated conflict. Scapegoating. Conflicts of interest. Paths of least resistance. Laziness. Reactive fear.

It all comes down to "Propaganda," doesn't it? Attempts to influence broader social opinion using emotionally charged and factually unsupported or misrepresented statements. (If I got that part right.)

[JekDaPUA]

Yeah a world living in fear is a world easily controlled

meanwhile..while Girl In The Room seems to speak from the perspective of an individual with an insightful view as a woman..

Mimicita seems to be here as a woman scorned.. with some sort of inner conflict between her own history, and hypocritical double binds that only serve to support some sort of surfacing need for validity of a truth she has conjured for herself and accepted

but hey thats just my theraputic analysis :D

[Mimicita]

Sigh, this is what happens when you write a quick post late at night. I re-read it now and I do recognize that it came across as somewhat rude, and even bitter. So here is what I *really* meant to say -

I don't dislike guys. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here. In fact, I try my best to identify with the opposite sex, and through my own experiences with women, I *KNOW* how challenging it may be. Furthermore, I do not view the PUA community negatively. I think it has the opportunity to help guys who are shy or just inexperienced with women.

Not very many people talk about this, but as a social strategy, your best bet is to try to identify *WITH* people who supposedly "oppose" you. Women have a lot more in common with men than people realize. Sure, there are some differences, but we belong to the same species and it's biologically imperative that we get together. Otherwise, there wouldn't be any humans at all. This is why I find the use of terms such as "targets" to describe girls in PUA as offensive and more importantly, misguided. The term "target" implies that only one party benefits from the interaction. A hunter isn't looking out for the best interest of his prey. Targeting women smacks of deception and lack of social responsibility. Such terminology makes it sound as if women are treated as "marks" or "victims". Dating is supposed to be a natural, enjoyable thing; something that's beneficial and pleasurable to both men and women.

I am also not absolving women from this type of behaviour because I personally know girls who systematically treat guys as "targets", too. This kind of behaviour is abhorrent in both genders. Misleading others and using them when it's convenient for you is inexcusable and it will not make you happy in the long term.

Re-framing starts in your mind. If you stop thinking of women as "targets", you will notice that it will get easier to relate to them. Your interactions will be more satisfying and this will make you a much happier person.

Cheers!

[Johnny Soporno]

Not very many people talk about this, but as a social strategy, your best bet is to try to identify *WITH* people who supposedly "oppose" you. Women have a lot more in common with men than people realize.

Ok, I agree in essence with what you're saying - but I take it further and insist that THERE IS NO BATTLE OF THE SEXES AT ALL; merely the distance between what a man wishes from women, and what she believes he expects from them.

The term "target" implies that only one party benefits from the interaction. A hunter isn't looking out for the best interest of his prey.

True enough. I can appreciate your frame here... I hadn't thought it through before, but you are definitely correct: 'Target' describes an object, rather than a willing participant.

Such terminology makes it sound as if women are treated as "marks" or "victims". Dating is supposed to be a natural, enjoyable thing; something that's beneficial and pleasurable to both men and women.

If by "dating" you mean "fucking", then I agree on all points.


I am also not absolving women from this type of behaviour because I personally know girls who systematically treat guys as "targets", too.

Damn straight! The hottest 'Club Girls' virtually always think of men as 'marks', and try to play them...


Re-framing starts in your mind. If you stop thinking of women as "targets", you will notice that it will get easier to relate to them. Your interactions will be more satisfying and this will make you a much happier person.

This makes good sense - thanks for explaining-better your initial diatribe - with the hostility removed, the reason shows-through.

Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy

P.S. I have always considered the beautiful, smiling face of a girl to be MY GOAL; but I have actually always treated it more as 'my target!' (semen-sharpshooter that I am ;))

[JekDaPUA]

I don't see them as targets.. but when I'm explaining it to PUA's through discussion and FR then yes I use useful and recognised terminology

meanwhile.. after you rewrite I'm more oblidged to agree with what your getting at.. and kind of understood that it was your view from between the lines of your original post

unfortunetly I'm not robocop.. so when I see a girl my eyes dnt suddenly bring up statistics and hoan on my "target"..

[Mimicita]

I don't see them as targets.. but when I'm explaining it to PUA's through discussion and FR then yes I use useful and recognised terminology

meanwhile.. after you rewrite I'm more oblidged to agree with what your getting at.. and kind of understood that it was your view from between the lines of your original post

unfortunetly I'm not robocop.. so when I see a girl my eyes dnt suddenly bring up statistics and hoan on my "target"..
If you don't see girls as "targets" (which is great, by the way), then don't you think that by using this type of terminology can be confusing and misleading, especially where you're speaking to guys who are new to the game?

[Couture]

MIMICITA - why are you posting here again?????

[RunAmok]

In my opinion the word target is used because that is where you wish to be/ get to. Women are fascinating creatures and any guy that calls himself a PUA and plays women is not a PUA. "Victim" implies that women are going against their will which is entirely not the case.

[JekDaPUA]

Its a useful metaphor and that is all it is..

anyone who takes it too literally by becoming obsessive about it like a hunter.. or takes it too literally thinking it gives them a right to objectify other people they interact with..

well that person has issues and should deal with it...

I don't think girls are HB's either.. but its useful term, that others can relate to (btw HB means Hunny Bunny)

Besides when explaining how the "game is played".. and the procedure of the model from a process perspective, these terms come in hand..and make it easier to understand the dynamics.

[Couture]

Thank you for the infraction Mimicita I appreciate your ability to send PM conversations to the admins - especailly when you PM me first. Very clever.

Isn´t this section titled Fight Club?

[ReallyPatheticFatSlob]

Mimicita writring infractions now?

I'm speechless. What a cunt.

[Killikina]

Rawr - almost sounds like a cat fight!

[JekDaPUA]

Rawr - almost sounds like a cat fight!


Out of curiosity.. why are you here?
And I don't mean that in a "get out of here.. you don't belong here" sort of way

I'm just curious what draws you here

[Mimicita]

Mimicita writring infractions now?

I'm speechless. What a cunt.
If we are going to resort to name-calling, I don't need to make one up for you - we can just use your name. It says it all.

[Johnny Soporno]

What a cunt.

Whoa - do you feltch your mother with that mouth?

Johnny Soporno
Disappointed

[Couture]

I <3 Fight Club.

[Mimicita]

I <3 Fight Club.
Shhh.. you are not supposed to talk about it!

[Astrodokk]

This is what happens when men get criticized by women in this world we live in nowadays. Feminists, or shall I say, matriarchal types, start complaining about the political "incorrectness" of our masculinity, in this case we using the term "target", which in my opinion is exactly what the lucky girl whom I target is. Then, as men try to appease the women, become demasculated while doing so. To be fair, some women do become victims of unscrupulous PUAs of which there is no excuse...we are supposedly (in my case, allegedly), gentlemen, and the target then becomes, hopefully, a keeper. But for God's sake, we are men, so let's act like it. Sound off like you got a pair, dudes! Ladies, if you don't agree with the original MM terminology, go start your own club.

[StuckInC2]

I would even be so inclined to say that the PUAs used to be the victims of countless HB's and SHB's during their life. We are taking revenge. =P

thumbs up on that one

its socially "okay" for you guys (and by that i mean girls) to do so much shit, but us venting our sexual desires is a bad thing?

you guys:

give us bitch shields
make us buy you drinks
give us shit tests (if most guys even get that far)
throw IOIs at us where if we directly IOIed back would lose any chance (theoretically)
EXPECT US TO GET THE CHECK


you guys are fucking cruel, admit it

[Johnny Soporno]

you guys:

give us bitch shields

Have you ever considered what it would be like to have a bunch of arrogant drunks hit on you again and again and again, all trying to demonstrate high-value while prepared to kiss your ass? Bitch Shields are completely reasonable!


make us buy you drinks


LET you buy them drinks - otherwise, you wouldn't be doing it. YOU must reach into your wallet, after all.

give us shit tests (if most guys even get that far)

To better establish if you ARE the cool-self-confident-worthwhile guy you PRESENT yourself to be, or if you're just PLAY-ACTING like you're that guy... IF you are genuine, you'll pass the shit-tests with ease, as though they weren't anything.


throw IOIs at us where if we directly IOIed back would lose any chance (theoretically)

Ever indicated your interest at a girl, and her immediately smile brightly, and then chicken-out, or look away? It's socially awkward for most people to simply accept a complimentary glance, much less return it!


EXPECT US TO GET THE CHECK

THAT is just poor expectation-management on your part.

Johnny Soporno
Helping set the record straight...

[mR. PotenTial]

Us guys don't like 'bitch shields' for obvious reasons but if you try to for one second even put yourself in the place of an attractive lady and try to look at things from her perspective, anybody with even a small amount of logic can see why it is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for nearly every girl to develop this (especially if she's attractive and will be hit on countless times a day!) as she grows up or she'll waste the biggest portion of her life being 'nice' to guys she has no interest in rather than identifying and getting rid of the unworthy as soon as possible so she still has time for the very few percentage who are worthy and for other areas of her life.

Do I like the bitch shield? No.

Do I understand that it is absolutely vital for it to exist and it makes sense when I think about it? Yes.

@Johnny, did you get my pm last night?
If you need more time to reply to it, that's perfectly fine. :)
I was just wondering, if it got through.

[Decibel]

I enjoyed reading this thread but still don't have a clue what our lady poster wants us to use instead of target. 'Victim' was a rant, so honestly come up with a nicer term and we might use it.

[Johnny Soporno]

I enjoyed reading this thread but still don't have a clue what our lady poster wants us to use instead of target. 'Victim' was a rant, so honestly come up with a nicer term and we might use it.

I personally prefer the term "Object [of my affection etc]" which, when not accompanied with the prefix 'sex', is generally pretty innocuous. :)

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
ob·ject (ŏb'jĭkt, -jěkt') Pronunciation Key
n.

1. Something perceptible by one or more of the senses, especially by vision or touch; a material thing.
2. A focus of attention, feeling, thought, or action: an object of contempt.
3. The purpose, aim, or goal of a specific action or effort: the object of the game.




Johnny Soporno