Every wonder where this all started?

[apg96]

Neural Linguistic Programming is a concept in the pysch community which started in about the 70's. It explains how this all comes to work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming

[Sway]

The sheer pointlessness of this thread astounds me.

Should we expect an exciting part two where you show us how to use Google?

[apg96]

The sheer pointlessness of this thread astounds me.

Should we expect an exciting part two where you show us how to use Google?

google is pretty easy to understand, but i can walk you through it. You type whatever you want to search into the search bar and then hit enter (or google search).

The point was only to tell people where this info comes from and that its not just bullshit. It has been studied and its ways are taught in many psychology classes.

[Sway]

How is this news to anyone? Look at the recommended reading list of any of the major seduction sites. Most of the books are science books. That's where it all came from. People are recommended to read them for a very good reason.

Also, for your information, not everyone uses NLP. The lack of scientific evidence and the rise of Mystery Method has made it increasingly less popular. It's really not important that anyone uses it nowadays, though they can if they wish.

- Sway

[waxlrose]

The google comment was SWEET! LOL

[Jester]

How is this news to anyone? Look at the recommended reading list of any of the major seduction sites. Most of the books are science books. That's where it all came from. People are recommended to read them for a very good reason.

Also, for your information, not everyone uses NLP. The lack of scientific evidence and the rise of Mystery Method has made it increasingly less popular. It's really not important that anyone uses it nowadays, though they can if they wish.

- Sway


Its only your opinion Sway, no need to flame mate. I think that you will find that to anyone who is fairly new(ish) to the game they probably wont actually know this. Ive been in the game for almost 1 1/2 years now and I only realised this about 6 months ago.

If your gaming properly ie DHVing via stories etc you are actually using NLP/ Erikson hypnosis techniques.

Even negs are a form of hypnosis (NLP), you are distracting her concious mind while you let her subconcious know that her giving her an IOI. Everyone knows that you really like someone when you take the piss out of them.

I think you might be thinking of the direct form of hypnosis/ NLP like RJs speed seducation, where your right it has fallen to the way side, as the indrect erikson hypnosis methods arent as 'weird'

[Sway]

Even negs are a form of hypnosis (NLP), you are distracting her concious mind while you let her subconcious know that her giving her an IOI. Everyone knows that you really like someone when you take the piss out of them.
'

A neg is an IOD (Indicator of Disinterest). There's a clear distinction between this and an IOI, and it's used to give the illusion to the group and target that you are not attracted to this girl.

Personally, I dislike your redefinition of hypnosis and NLP. They are fine for what they already are, but there are many things that don't fit into the NLP\hypnosis paradigm. Mystery Method is independant of any NLP techniques, and I disagree with your assertion that DHV stories are Eriksonian techniques. We're not giving the HB therapy here; we're just demonstrating we possess specific Alpha qualities.


- Sway

[Superfreak]

How is this news to anyone? Look at the recommended reading list of any of the major seduction sites. Most of the books are science books. That's where it all came from. People are recommended to read them for a very good reason.

Also, for your information, not everyone uses NLP. The lack of scientific evidence and the rise of Mystery Method has made it increasingly less popular. It's really not important that anyone uses it nowadays, though they can if they wish.

- Sway

Actually if you look at a lot of the stuff style does there are patterns that occur with in the routines.

Same is true of a DHV story or anything else really it contains language that is used to a purpose.

So as they say a rose by any other name is still a rose.

NLP is meant to create imagery in a format that is excepted by the subconscious mind.

If reasoning a girl into bed actually worked then yes you would not need to create an emotional response in your targets mind, but since most of us understand that this is not how seduction works then there is a place for NLP in seduction.

I am not saying to memorize long drawn out patterns by any means but yes MM does use patterning in the method in some cases.

Ex. If you could be anything you wanted regardless of money or rules what would you be? Oh, and you can not choose princess.

If you could is a NLP

Have you ever,
would you ever,
can you imagine

Just a few fragments there, but I think you get the ideal that even though it is not a structured part of MM, or VA or what ever we are calling it this week , NLP does play a part of modern seduction.

While the game is a great book and has helped increase the awareness of people to the society which I view as a good thing, the way that it has been interpreted by some of its users to devalue NLP is a shame.

Since I know the writer uses things like the black mirror, and some patterning I think this is a misinterpretation by many people.

While I do not understand how Swinggcat got the top PUA listing as their were many reports on the net of him ripping people off and not delivering their paid for products but morality a side he must be pretty good as I am familiar with some of the accounts of this PUA one of those is linked to the Octoberman sequence which is NLP at is core.

So if the community accepts that he is the top or one of the top PUAs in the world then the palce of NLP in modern seduction is secured.

[Slick]

Honestly. You guys are taking this, WAY too seriously!

[Jester]

I disagree with your assertion that DHV stories are Eriksonian techniques. We're not giving the HB therapy here; we're just demonstrating we possess specific Alpha qualities.

Eriksonian techniques (some of) are about sub communication, not just about therapy. Which is exactly what a DHV story is - by telling the group you have just been to a fashion party with your ex who is a cat walk model, your sub communicating that your preselected by hot girls. IF you said out right, my ex is a model Im preselected, see!! You wouldnt get your point across.

Eriksonian is about influencing peoples opinions by indirect methods of communication, which is what your doing in a DHV. Distract the concious mind and talk to the sub concious mind.

From my understanding anyway, this works for me in the field and also in my job (sales)

If you know about hypnosis already, look deeper my friend, you will find parallels in the game. :D

He who communicates best, wins.

[Greystoke]

maybe we should ask Ross Jeffries to start posting here. I miss the good old days of Thundercat blog. LOL...

so much respect for NLP. I'm impressed.

[Slick]

Personally.. I've never gone in-feild and used NLP.

I've just stuck with the Venusian Arts.

[Sway]

If you know about hypnosis already, look deeper my friend, you will find parallels in the game. :D

He who communicates best, wins.

Well, I don't entirely disagree with you on the points you brought up in that post, since I was immersed in NLP\hypnosis for a long time, and I know where you're coming from. My point is simply that it's better to start considering other paradigms, without necessarily rejecting others, because I've found that nothing fits completely in any paradigm. They're all important, but none of them are complete.

"All communication is hypnosis" is a well known phrase from the hypnosis community, but after going through it all and coming out the other side to me it's no different now than saying "God is everywhere". If you look you'll find patterns to support both of those statements, yet that doesn't mean either of them are true.

Take care

- Sway

[Superfreak]

maybe we should ask Ross Jeffries to start posting here. I miss the good old days of Thundercat blog. LOL...

so much respect for NLP. I'm impressed.

Actually speaking of new partners in the PUA community Ross has a new partner and is setting up a new site I think it is .biz instead of .com but once he has all his old products converted to digital he is planning on launching some new stuff.

The game is the game, is the game. Lines change I think what most of us are trying to get across is that while VAH and some of the other methods are good you can still expand on the knowledge and also better understand the principles of seduction by expanding and studying other methods and systems of seduction.

Take what works for you and discard the rest and make your game uniquely your own. adapted from Bruce Lee's view of martial arts but holds true to pickup or anything else. Use what is useful and discard the rest.

[dman]

Yes, the new site is dot biz.

[Shade]

I have to give props to Ross Jeffries for being one of the founders of the seduction community. But other than that, using hypnosis to attract and seduce girls is just plain creepy. I don't know why people continue to talk about NLP anymore. PUAs like Mystery and Tyler taught us how we can attract and seduce women through our personalities as opposed to NLP. Storytelling, banter, alpha body language, rapport are not only important skills for pick-up but they are skills that can be used for all facets of life.

[Casimir]

I have to give props to Ross Jeffries for being one of the founders of the seduction community. But other than that, using hypnosis to attract and seduce girls is just plain creepy. I don't know why people continue to talk about NLP anymore. PUAs like Mystery and Tyler taught us how we can attract and seduce women through our personalities as opposed to NLP. Storytelling, banter, alpha body language, rapport are not only important skills for pick-up but they are skills that can be used for all facets of life.

Fully agreed. Hypnotizing girls into sex is weird and creepy and unnecessary.

I like learning about the history of the community. What I'd really like to hear about is how Mystery learned in his early pre-ASF days. I read his archives and they begin in September 1998. He reports a lay count of 56 at the time. I want to know how he developed all this shit on his own and what he was like just starting out.

[claudius]

NLP is based off of the life and works of Milton Erickson. NLP is basically a watered-down version of Ericksonian hypnotherapy.

Fully agreed. Hypnotizing girls into sex is weird and creepy and unnecessary.

If you think hypnosis is some magical power you can use to seduce women into the bedroom, there's no such thing as hypnosis. There's no such thing as magic.

If, however, you think of hypnosis as a way in which one communicates effectively, you're on to something.

Milton Erickson was the greatest hypnotherapist...ever. He could heal patients in a few sessions what would take normal psychoanalysts months, or years.

His therapy was radically different from other types, because instead of rationally confronting a problem, he would induce someone in a trance, and tell them a story. Often times, he would not even have to induce them into a trance. They would go into a trance state just by the story alone.

You go in and out of trance states all day. Often times when hearing a story. You relate to a story someone else tells by regressing on your own experiences as a human. Often times, during this regression, one goes into a trance state.

Have you ever told a story to a woman you've fucked?

Claudius

[Casimir]

claudius - it sounds like you're basically equating hypnosis with emotional state control. I am no expert on hypnosis, but I do believe it constitutes more than affecting people's emotions and communicating effectively.

Regardless, we're on the same page here. No point in arguing about definitions.

[Nasarius]

I've said it before...the seduction community seems to be sharply divided into the hardcore atheist geek types like Mystery on one hand, and the spiritual/hypnosis/NLP types on the other.

The funny thing is, they can both be successful. It really is true that if you believe something will work, it probably will, whether it's self-improvement or dealing with someone else. Frame control and all that stuff.

Ross Jeffries may have been the first in the business, but David D is the only PUG I can think of whose teachings seem influenced by RJ. Mystery, Lance Mason, Brad P, and many many others are doing their own thing completely unrelated to NLP. The "Reception" section of the Wikipedia article is certainly worth reading.

[dman]

That second mentioned of wikipedia in a row reminds me.... get in touch with me if any of you guys ever join wikipedia and/or do much editing.

[claudius]

I've said it before...the seduction community seems to be sharply divided into the hardcore atheist geek types like Mystery on one hand, and the spiritual/hypnosis/NLP types on the other.

That's so true...hahahahahahaha...

[Diebold]

Started with a Ross Jeffries seminar that Mystery attended perhaps?

Just a guess.

/uses MM as a yardstick so back off flamers. :)

[Diebold]

And some people on this thread throw around "HYPNOSIS" like it's some made-for-TV-movie effect. Hypnosis is just an altered state of conciousness, something that everyone expceriences every day. *sigh*

[Diebold]

I've said it before...the seduction community seems to be sharply divided into the hardcore atheist geek types like Mystery on one hand, and the spiritual/hypnosis/NLP types on the other.

The funny thing is, they can both be successful. It really is true that if you believe something will work, it probably will, whether it's self-improvement or dealing with someone else. Frame control and all that stuff.

Ross Jeffries may have been the first in the business, but David D is the only PUG I can think of whose teachings seem influenced by RJ. Mystery, Lance Mason, Brad P, and many many others are doing their own thing completely unrelated to NLP. The "Reception" section of the Wikipedia article is certainly worth reading.

People see to miss the important post by Tyler Durden on ASF back in the day, about how each "method" was a tool in a PUA's toolbox, and that one method would sometimes cause a set and interaction to fail where another method would have smooth sailing in the same situation.

Each method is just a tool in a PUA's TOOLBOX. Come on people, MM + SS + CA + TGM + your own tools > than just one method alone.