Myth of the Alpha Male

[Mimicita]

There is a lot of focus, on this and other forums, on how to become an "Alpha" male. It appears to be common knowledge that Alpha guys are the dynamic, masculine go-getter top dogs who get all the girls. Thus, it is unsurprising that many guys who struggle attracting and/or maintaining positive relationships with girls believe that learning how to behave like an alpha male would solve all these problems. Somehow, being Alpha has become synonymous with being a "real man"; the kind of man who naturally attracts girls.

Alpha behaviour in itself isn't a measure of masculinity, but simply an inherent quality in some people. What's more important, girls aren't interested in Alphas most of the time. Security is the number one female motivator, and this is something that an Alpha male cannot provide. Sure, dominant and confident behaviour is exciting, but it isn't what girls seek on a regular basis. Working with the personality type you've got will get you a lot farther than trying to produce a new one. True confidence is extremely attractive and sexy to both males and females alike. A man who knows and is proud of himself is what girls truly seek, regardless of whether he happens to be of the "Alpha" or "Beta" variety.

So what do girls mean when they say that they prefer "real men"?

A real man is someone who makes her feel good about herself, and not because he's kissing her ass in an effort to get into her pants. A real man never treats her with judgment or harsh criticism. A girl knows that when she's around him, she can relax and enjoy herself, because she is wanted and appreciated. She knows that he appreciates her for the kind of a person she is. In turn, it will make her want to be an even better person. There is no awkwardness or pressure, and the girl knows that the reason they're spending time together is to enjoy each other's company, without expectations of sex. Believe me, when you establish yourself as someone who is genuinely confident and proud of himself, you will have no feeling that you have something to prove. When a girl realizes that sex is not something you are trying to "get" out of her, but is something fun and satisfying that the two of you can share together, she will be much more likely to be interested.

After a date with such a "real man", she will be glowing and thinking fondly of the time you spent together. She won't replay the evening's events over and over in her head, fearing that she somehow messed up.

To be a real man, one doesn't need be macho or alpha. Appearances can be nice, but they are often deceiving. So instead of trying to appear to be something you're not, working on yourself and becoming comfortable with YOU is a lot more productive and satisfying.

[LordSinistR]

dude i gotta disagree about your theories about Alpha Males. It's either you are or your aren't simple as that. a stong Alpha Male should be very dominant, aggressive, confident, and motivated. Not only with the game but in every aspect of our lives. Work, Family, Women, School, Social Network, ect...

not all men are Alpha or what I rather call Dom's as some men are just Submissive towards women.

Subs are good Guys Doms are the Bad Boys.

Doesn't mean us Alpha Dom's aren't aren't looking for a LTR's or can't give them the security they want because some of us want to and do.

Here is an excerpt to something I wrong along time ago telling a HB what I expected and would do for her...

I am a Teacher, Lover, Caring, Compassionate, Passionate, Chivalristic, Fair, but yet Dominating, Very Stern, Firm Handed Master that Teaches a Female Sub how to serve with Love, Dignity, Loyalty, and with her Heart.

I will Mold her into a perfect woman that she always wanted to be...


Oh and you don't think women don't want that then you haven't seen a woman that would fuck you senseless because she is tired of being a dominate single woman sometimes a milf controlling everything in her world and would love to give over some of that control to a very dominate man.

In hence that IS security that a woman wants from us Alpha Dom's taking care of their needs. Beta Subs there is nothing wrong with that either.

to each his own...

Just my 2 cents

[JUSTINRUETHER]

I think mimicita is a female. The post seemed to be written from a feminine point of view.

Mimicita's post talks about the things a woman thinks she wants. These things may sound nice, but they are not actually what a woman responds to.

There seems to be a common misconception that PU is about treating girls badly in order to knock them down to your level. That is wrong. PUA establish boundaries with women and display their confidence and decisiveness.

PUA are not bad guys, they are just real guys that know how to effectively communicate with women.

[Mimicita]

On the contrary, I never once stated that PUAs are "bad guys". There is no need to be defensive. The point of my post was to state that a man doesn't need to try to pretend to be something he's not to "get" the girl. In fact, the whole philosophy behind "getting" girls is tragically flawed. Be someone that girls want to be with because they feel good around you.

And yes, I'm a female - aren't you interested in the female point of view? Or are you only interested in exchanging pointless (and often erroneous) advice with other clueless guys? I come here to share my experience, knowledge, and yes, even point of view because I believe it's crucial to understand women and what motivates them if you wish to have any measure of success with them.

[Arborian]

thats a cool opinion, but you know...

you dont have any sources... and the fact of the matter is... what you are saying goes against pretty much every psychological study EVER.

I would take the time to find sources for you, but Im pretty sure that you are the only one who believes what youre sharting out.

[Arborian]

oh youre female?

you can say, yes, the philosophy of "getting the girl" is tragically flawed. such is life... we dont live in an ideal world.

SO... we do what gets results.

[LordSinistR]

On the contrary, I never once stated that PUAs are "bad guys". There is no need to be defensive. The point of my post was to state that a man doesn't need to try to pretend to be something he's not to "get" the girl. In fact, the whole philosophy behind "getting" girls is tragically flawed. Be someone that girls want to be with because they feel good around you.

And yes, I'm a female - aren't you interested in the female point of view? Or are you only interested in exchanging pointless (and often erroneous) advice with other clueless guys? I come here to share my experience, knowledge, and yes, even point of view because I believe it's crucial to understand women and what motivates them if you wish to have any measure of success with them.

you're making ASSumptions based on your own trials and tribulations. Some of us are NOT pretending to be something we are not. it's who and what we are and how we think. Some of us Alpha Dom's view the whole world as our play ground and go after everything we see not just women.

so please don't stand her and say "This is what Women want blah blah blah"

I am getting the feeling you like a nice submissive man to rub you're feet, do the dishes, and be there for your ever becking call.

truth of the matter is YOU should be honored to be serving your mans needs as he pleases and in return he should do the same for YOU and give you what you need, seek, and desire and that is what a True Alpha Dom Male should be like not like some panzy Beta Sub.

[kjtw]

On the contrary, I never once stated that PUAs are "bad guys". There is no need to be defensive. The point of my post was to state that a man doesn't need to try to pretend to be something he's not to "get" the girl. In fact, the whole philosophy behind "getting" girls is tragically flawed. Be someone that girls want to be with because they feel good around you.

And yes, I'm a female - aren't you interested in the female point of view? Or are you only interested in exchanging pointless (and often erroneous) advice with other clueless guys? I come here to share my experience, knowledge, and yes, even point of view because I believe it's crucial to understand women and what motivates them if you wish to have any measure of success with them.

Here is my pov on this...

There is a VAST difference between what women logically want and what women instinctively respond to. Logic simply does not enter into the formula. If women REALLY wanted what they say they do, I would have been one of the most in demand guys in the world in my days before PU. I fit almost every woman's description of their "perfect man." In fact, it couldn't be farther from the truth.

There are certain instinctual switches that all people have that we have no control over. Logically, I am really attracted to women with a smaller chest but, due to instinct, I have always dated women with a large chest (go figure). Just the same, a woman might say that she wants to be with a nice guy that is going to treat her like a queen but instinctually, they end up with the Alpha male that is going to be able to control them and help them to Survive and Replicate...it is pure psychology.

So, basically, the battle here is that between logic and instinct. Instinct will almost always win...it is human nature and survival of the species.

[JUSTINRUETHER]

On the contrary, I never once stated that PUAs are "bad guys". There is no need to be defensive. The point of my post was to state that a man doesn't need to try to pretend to be something he's not to "get" the girl. In fact, the whole philosophy behind "getting" girls is tragically flawed. Be someone that girls want to be with because they feel good around you.

And yes, I'm a female - aren't you interested in the female point of view? Or are you only interested in exchanging pointless (and often erroneous) advice with other clueless guys? I come here to share my experience, knowledge, and yes, even point of view because I believe it's crucial to understand women and what motivates them if you wish to have any measure of success with them.

I am very interested in the female point of view. That is what lead me to study this area of psychology. I grew up with all sisters, I was the only boy so I have been raised with the female point of view being hammered into my head. I was not being defensive then or now.

I am very glad you are here and willing to share your point of view with all of us. I just hope you can look past the stigma surrounding the art of pick up and realize that it is not about learning how to screw over women, but rather learning how to effectively communicate and convey your personality to women. Guys are hear because they want to make women feel good around them.

The real tragedy lies in the fact that no matter how nice, loyal or caring a man is, he will never be given a chance to convey these qualities unless he has the opportunity to do so. He will never have the opportunity unless he knows how to effectively communicate with women.

[Poetry]

I find this thread to be pointless and going nowhere...

It's like the people who swear by intelligent design -- and the people who believe in evolution. Although all science and biology point to the earth being billions of years old, religious left consider the earth to have been established for only a few thousand years.

Either way, you're going to have an argument that will see no end, no matter the evidence provided.

[Mimicita]

Telling someone who's failing at something to just be true and try harder at the same path is futile.

You are absolutely right! Thank you for pointing this out. Doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results is the definition of STUPIDITY.

The real winners in this world are people who take their "weaknesses" and turn them into advantages. Make the world work for you, not the other way around.

[kjtw]

You are absolutely right! Thank you for pointing this out. Doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results is the definition of STUPIDITY.

The real winners in this world are people who take their "weaknesses" and turn them into advantages. Make the world work for you, not the other way around.

You just defined Alpha...

[JUSTINRUETHER]

Did you just pull that Albert Einstein quote out of my signature?

[Poetry]

Did you just pull that Albert Einstein quote out of my signature?

She did, I would sue.

[Johnny Soporno]

There is a lot of focus, on this and other forums, on how to become an "Alpha" male.

I agree with LordSinistr, I don't believe a person can 'become' an Alpha - I think it's in the genes.

I believe each man is born to a particular 'type' - MOST are 'Betas' and a much smaller number are 'alphas' - neither is 'better' than the other, and both have fundamentally beneficial and detrimental traits.

Alphas generally CAN NOT BE COMFORTABLE unless they are either 'in charge' or truly independent. They suffer maddeningly when they are subjugated to other Alphas (even in their own families, or amongst closest friends) and have NO patience-at-all when they must answer to Betas.

This makes them TERRIBLE employees, lousy business partners, and most-frequently very unhappy guys. It can, however, make them solid entrepreneurs, good project-leaders, and excellent consultants.

Furthermore, Alphas are NOT ABLE to be both sexual-exclusive AND sexually-interested with a single-partner. This makes them terrible husbands/boyfriends, at least in the traditional dating-model our society accepts. Their genetic imperative: To Spread the Seed.

WAY, WAY, WAY-more Betas are happy, comfortable, and actualized than Alphas - because Betas can easily get-along with one-another, with women, and with Alphas alike. They don't feel the overwhelming need to sleep with every-woman-they-see, the way Alphas do...

I believe that Alpha is a genetic predisposition, in which a few natural-Alphas are SUCCESSFUL in life, and most Alpha men are unsuccessful at living as Alphas; and even LESS successful at being Betas.

It appears to be common knowledge that Alpha guys are the dynamic, masculine go-getter top dogs who get all the girls. Thus, it is unsurprising that many guys who struggle attracting and/or maintaining positive relationships with girls believe that learning how to behave like an alpha male would solve all these problems. Somehow, being Alpha has become synonymous with being a "real man"; the kind of man who naturally attracts girls.

Here I have to agree with you - most guys on these 'seduction' forums misuse the label 'Alpha' to describe a man as you've identified - and furthermore believe that women crave that-sort of man for themselves...

Security is the number one female motivator, and this is something that an Alpha male cannot provide. Sure, dominant and confident behaviour is exciting, but it isn't what girls seek on a regular basis.

I agree here completely - most women want a reliable, consistent 'good provider' as a partner, a husband/boyfriend... BUT they will, during their ovulation, become entranced and enthusiastic about Alphas, and many with surreptitiously hook-up with them behind-the-backs of their Beta mates.


Working with the personality type you've got will get you a lot farther than trying to produce a new one. True confidence is extremely attractive and sexy to both males and females alike. A man who knows and is proud of himself is what girls truly seek, regardless of whether he happens to be of the "Alpha" or "Beta" variety.

Brava! I couldn't agree more - a confident, self-satisfied Vice-President of a successful, established company will be a WHOLE LOT MORE PLEASANT to be around than a desperate, embittered chronic-failure, regardless of his philanderous tendencies, OR the word 'President' [of his own fledgling operation] on his business-cards.


So what do girls mean when they say that they prefer "real men"?

A real man is someone who makes her feel good about herself, and not because he's kissing her ass in an effort to get into her pants. A real man never treats her with judgment or harsh criticism. A girl knows that when she's around him, she can relax and enjoy herself, because she is wanted and appreciated. She knows that he appreciates her for the kind of a person she is. In turn, it will make her want to be an even better person. There is no awkwardness or pressure, and the girl knows that the reason they're spending time together is to enjoy each other's company, without expectations of sex. Believe me, when you establish yourself as someone who is genuinely confident and proud of himself, you will have no feeling that you have something to prove. When a girl realizes that sex is not something you are trying to "get" out of her, but is something fun and satisfying that the two of you can share together, she will be much more likely to be interested.

That is a fantastically insightful commentary, clearly coming from an enlightened position... I wonder, however, how many women would agree that what you've described above is what THEY believe 'a Real Man' to be?

After a date with such a "real man", she will be glowing and thinking fondly of the time you spent together. She won't replay the evening's events over and over in her head, fearing that she somehow messed up.

To be a real man, one doesn't need be macho or alpha. Appearances can be nice, but they are often deceiving. So instead of trying to appear to be something you're not, working on yourself and becoming comfortable with YOU is a lot more productive and satisfying.

I like this - I think you've addressed some really valuable stuff! :)

Johnny Soporno
Sexual Revolutionary

[Mimicita]

You just defined Alpha...
No, actually I defined what it takes to be a successful and happy person, regardless of their socio-biological assignment.

[Johnny Soporno]

There are certain instinctual switches that all people have that we have no control over. Logically, I am really attracted to women with a smaller chest but, due to instinct, I have always dated women with a large chest (go figure).

KJTW, I have an observation that I expect explains the phenomenon you've described, which might surprise you:

It's not instinct that connect you with large chested girls, it's laziness.

The reason you've successfully dated women with big boobs was PRECISELY because 'larger-chests' didn't do it for you - and most-likely, while talking with such ample women, you LOOKED INTO THEIR FACES.

Guys who are big-tit fans CAN'T SEEM TO KEEP THEIR EYES OFF 'EM. This not-only offends the women with big tits, it also offends every other woman who witness it ;) But the significance is that large-chested women DON'T generally hook-up with 'tit men' for just that reason.

When they meet a guy who looks them in the eyes, they are pretty smitten, from the get-go. It makes your job as seducer MUCH easier. So much easier, in fact, that it seems you've opted to collect the 'low-hanging fruit' (no pun intended) instead of being more-true to yourself, and finding small-chested girls.


Just the same, a woman might say that she wants to be with a nice guy that is going to treat her like a queen but instinctually, they end up with the Alpha male that is going to be able to control them and help them to Survive and Replicate...it is pure psychology.

That's true in the most-simplistic sense, but normally only one-week each month do women's standards change that severely. Three-weeks out of the month, she craves a single partner who can provide her with comfort, security, and approval (called 'Love'.)

So, basically, the battle here is that between logic and instinct. Instinct will almost always win...it is human nature and survival of the species.

Riiiight. So every person you've ever met was fathered-by an Alpha?

I mean, after all - if what you're saying is true, virtually EVERY WOMEN MARRIES AN ALPHA, AND RAISES HIS CHILDREN, right?

Let me rephrase: I have met a LOT of men who've fathered children, and in many of those cases, I believe the children they consider theirs are actually genetically their offspring - and they are MOST DEFINITELY "Good guys" (not 'nice guys', although I never saw any mention of them in the OP?) and they are strong, effective, accomplished men, loyal and dedicated and reliable - and every-single one of them is a true-blue, dyed-in-the-wool Beta -and not the least-bit self-deprecating or unhappy about it.

Johnny Soporno
Lifestyle Guru

[Johnny Soporno]

Did you just pull that Albert Einstein quote out of my signature?

It's not an Einstein original, it's also a Ben Franklin quote, a Mark Twain quote, and many, many others.

But you might as well sue anyway? After all, you don't need a reason to sue!

JS

[HBPornstar]

Who are you?

Im pretty much fed up with posts from people who have no idea what they're doing misleading the new people in this community.

You're a woman, telling guys you want a "nice guy" that is confident without having any experience in alpha male theory or behavior/sociological psycology nor any experience in the field of picking up women....



I have noticed through this and other posts, Rewok, that your inherant misogyny seem to cloud your ability to reason. You are right, in that you don't know Mimicita from Jane Doe, but on that very same bit, you have no way of knowing if she has experience in alpha male theory or behavior/sociological psychology or experience in whatever you are accusing her of lacking. If you would just take a step back from your emotions, you might be able to see that she has made some very good points, as Johnny Soporno has pointed out. This is all stuff that I could see *him* saying. Would you have attacked him, or would it have been okay because he *does* have a penis.

So what do girls mean when they say that they prefer "real men"?

A real man is someone who makes her feel good about herself, and not because he's kissing her ass in an effort to get into her pants. A real man never treats her with judgment or harsh criticism. A girl knows that when she's around him, she can relax and enjoy herself, because she is wanted and appreciated. She knows that he appreciates her for the kind of a person she is. In turn, it will make her want to be an even better person. There is no awkwardness or pressure, and the girl knows that the reason they're spending time together is to enjoy each other's company, without expectations of sex. Believe me, when you establish yourself as someone who is genuinely confident and proud of himself, you will have no feeling that you have something to prove. When a girl realizes that sex is not something you are trying to "get" out of her, but is something fun and satisfying that the two of you can share together, she will be much more likely to be interested.

That is a fantastically insightful commentary, clearly coming from an enlightened position... I wonder, however, how many women would agree that what you've described above is what THEY believe 'a Real Man' to be?

Being a woman myself, I have a different idea of what a 'Real Man' might be, but I think if you got a group of women together to try to get one solid definition, you'd end up with a hung jury. Just as women's preferences vary (even within the same woman, depending on where she is in her menstrual cycle), so there are many different kinds of guys out there to suit us, alphas, betas, and those guys who are trying so hard to be alphas but just can't quite get it. Yes, I'm sure there are women out there for them too.

The point I'd like to reaffirm, is that a *true* alpha male is not something you can strive to be. You either are or you aren't. You can take on alpha qualities, and be the 'manly man' or whatever you equate to being alpha, but true alphas as Johnny said
Alphas are NOT ABLE to be both sexual-exclusive AND sexually-interested with a single-partner. This makes them terrible husbands/boyfriends, at least in the traditional dating-model our society accepts. Their genetic imperative: To Spread the Seed.

You either are this way or you aren't.

Cheers!

[Mimicita]

The point I'd like to reaffirm, is that a *true* alpha male is not something you can strive to be. You either are or you aren't.
Guess what, my dear boys? I'm on your side. I know it's hard being a guy. It's not easy being a girl, too. Ask yourselves - is your self-loathing really so great for you to wish to eradicate the very essence of your being? If you don't like yourself, don't try to mask it with quick fixes. Instead, find what bothers you and what it will take for you to be happy with yourself, and the need for quick fixes will disappear.

[Johnny Soporno]

A stong Alpha Male should be very dominant, aggressive, confident, and motivated. Not only with the game but in every aspect of our lives. Work, Family, Women, School, Social Network, ect...

My experience with Alpha and Betas contradicts what you've posted, frankly.

Almost every guy I've met in the D/s community (Domination/submission) who were exclusively 'Doms' were Betas in public life - they would re-affirm their masculinity in the bedroom (or at the BDSM club) by extreme sexual dominance.

The substantial Alphas I've met in that scene were virtually always either 'switches' (playing either role, Dom or sub) or were aggressively submissive, frequently to compensate for having to be 'in charge' all the rest of their lives.

There are some exceptions, come to think of it, but very few - those ones merely serve to 'prove the rule' I should think.

Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy

[noblepaladin]

There is a lot of focus, on this and other forums, on how to become an "Alpha" male. It appears to be common knowledge that Alpha guys are the dynamic, masculine go-getter top dogs who get all the girls. Thus, it is unsurprising that many guys who struggle attracting and/or maintaining positive relationships with girls believe that learning how to behave like an alpha male would solve all these problems. Somehow, being Alpha has become synonymous with being a "real man"; the kind of man who naturally attracts girls.

Alpha behaviour in itself isn't a measure of masculinity, but simply an inherent quality in some people. What's more important, girls aren't interested in Alphas most of the time. Security is the number one female motivator, and this is something that an Alpha male cannot provide. Sure, dominant and confident behaviour is exciting, but it isn't what girls seek on a regular basis. Working with the personality type you've got will get you a lot farther than trying to produce a new one. True confidence is extremely attractive and sexy to both males and females alike. A man who knows and is proud of himself is what girls truly seek, regardless of whether he happens to be of the "Alpha" or "Beta" variety.

So what do girls mean when they say that they prefer "real men"?

A real man is someone who makes her feel good about herself, and not because he's kissing her ass in an effort to get into her pants. A real man never treats her with judgment or harsh criticism. A girl knows that when she's around him, she can relax and enjoy herself, because she is wanted and appreciated. She knows that he appreciates her for the kind of a person she is. In turn, it will make her want to be an even better person. There is no awkwardness or pressure, and the girl knows that the reason they're spending time together is to enjoy each other's company, without expectations of sex. Believe me, when you establish yourself as someone who is genuinely confident and proud of himself, you will have no feeling that you have something to prove. When a girl realizes that sex is not something you are trying to "get" out of her, but is something fun and satisfying that the two of you can share together, she will be much more likely to be interested.

After a date with such a "real man", she will be glowing and thinking fondly of the time you spent together. She won't replay the evening's events over and over in her head, fearing that she somehow messed up.

To be a real man, one doesn't need be macho or alpha. Appearances can be nice, but they are often deceiving. So instead of trying to appear to be something you're not, working on yourself and becoming comfortable with YOU is a lot more productive and satisfying.

I respect her opinion, because obviously she sees something unattractive about the "alpha" male. There are probably many other females that have the same opinion too.

People who fail to "establish yourself as someone who is genuinely confident and proud of himself" is someone who lacks congruence. There are many definitions of "alpha" that go around, personally I think that an alpha male is simply a guy who is his own man. He doesn't care what other guys think about him. He is dominant in the sense that you cannot get him to do anything he doesn't want to do and you cannot affect how he feels. He can go around and talk to girls not worried about getting rejected or anything, or he can just chill out and be the strong and silent type because that his what he wants to do at the moment.

Someone who goes around dominating all conversations and being the center of attention all the time may come off as alpha at first, but girls can sense that it is all an act in the long run because his personality is not always like that. Many natural alphas do dominate conversations, express a lot of masculinity, etc. However, look at Arnold Schwarzenegger's Terminator character, or some introverted celebrities like Clint Eastwood. They are all super alpha, but they are not the type that goes around controlling all conversation in a group.

Becoming alpha should be completely changing your personality or becoming comfortable with your current personality. I know some people who used to be very shy have become talkative and have changed into people who love conversation. They are congruent. There are also some people who are not very talkative, but they are happy with the way they are and other people simply cannot affect them at all. These people do have many of the qualities PUAs say are important (confidence, non-neediness, etc).

I think a lot of people have their own image of the perfect alpha male and what a beta male is. I don't think there is such thing as one type of alpha male. Some of them are very talkative, some are strong and silent, etc. However, all of them are confident, non-needy, has strong values, have options, etc. So if you are "acting" alpha, then you are probably not alpha. Alpha is inner game. You can do things that make you look alpha, but how the hell can someone keep the act up all the time? Once you slip the girls will know. Of course, if you are an unconfident guy like most beginning PUAs are, then fake it til you make it. Success makes you more comfortable with who you are. When you are comfortable, you can "be yourself" and still be alpha.

[Johnny Soporno]

You're a woman, telling guys you want a "nice guy" that is confident without having any experience in alpha male theory or behavior/sociological psycology nor any experience in the field of picking up women.

WHOA, WHOA, WHOA! I was planning to come to your defense here, Rewok, but you're WAY out-of-line!

First of all, the OP NEVER SAID "Nice Guy" (you fisrt coined it in this thread - TRUE STORY) and in fact, instead pointed out very elegantly what WAS an attractive set of qualities - particularly excluding supplication. Did you even READ the original post?

Also, you (biologicaly) have no conception of male attitudes, hormones, or pack theory because you don't have a penis. True story.

Ok, now that's indefensible - MANY of the leading experts in the field (Sarah Hrdy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Hrdy), Helen Fisher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Fisher_%28anthropologist%29), Camille Paglia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camille_paglia), etc) are "Y Chromosome Deficient" ;) but nevertheless have brilliant and valuable insights, sometimes SPECIFICALLY because they are women.

Alpha animals get what they want, beta animals dont because they wait for the alpha's to get their fill. Humans are pack animals.


Um, check your sources - normally, a pride/pack/troop of 'Dominance-hierarchical' mammals will have ONE active 'Alpha' male (the other would-be Alphas having been chased-away or beaten-down, most-frequently leaving to conquer another pride/pack/troop on their own) and several related betas, plus many females in a polygynous structure.

Betas don't 'not get what they want' - they simply want DIFFERENT THINGS than Alphas do. It's much more obvious in humans, certainly - but if the supporting males in any group weren't comfortable-enough, they wouldn't stay.

Your conception of alpha stems for sociological programming as negative to deter others from going after the top dogs spoils.

Where do you get ANYTHING like that from anything Mamacita wrote?

If you're not getting laid, you're doing or are something that is inherrently unattractive or ineffective. Telling someone who's failing at something to just be true and try harder at the same path is futile.

What I got from the original post was this:

If you BECOME COMFORTABLE, CONFIDENT, AND HAPPY WITH YOURSELF, women will find you very attractive. (That sounds right to me!)

Most of the truly-effective people I've known were natural Betas, many of them with MBAs or better, with significant authority, and commanding profound respect and loyalty from their staff, their wives, and their kids.

Please go-back and revisit the initial post, Rewok - if you can find anything which you feel needs to be challenged, go ahead and voice your opinion - but don't attack the Original Poster using argumentum ad hominem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem).... That's of no value to anyone, and is beneath you.


Your friend,
Johnny Soporno

[Johnny Soporno]

I have noticed through this and other posts, Rewok, that your inherant misogyny seem to cloud your ability to reason.


I don't believe Rewok is a misogynist, although I could see how you'd surmize that from his recent posts... I think his major complaint comes from the fact that 'unknowns' are delurking on this forum and making sweeping statements, sometimes contentious, sometimes banal; but in either case, AS authorities where their status cannot be identified.

While I believe he owes it to the posters to direct his criticisms of their comments AT THEIR COMMENTS, rather than at themselves, I can appreciate his vigilance.

If you would just take a step back from your emotions, you might be able to see that she has made some very good points, as Johnny Soporno has pointed out. This is all stuff that I could see *him* saying. Would you have attacked him, or would it have been okay because he *does* have a penis.

Oh, great, there you go - talking about my penis again... ;)

Being a woman myself, I have a different idea of what a 'Real Man' might be, but I think if you got a group of women together to try to get one solid definition, you'd end up with a hung jury.

Heh heh... she said 'hung'... ;)

Johnny Soporno
Unhung Sero

[Arborian]

hey

hey

hey

just to put things into perspective:

while you guys were arguing about this, I just fucked a virgin.

have a good night lol

[JekDaPUA]

hey

hey

hey

just to put things into perspective:

while you guys were arguing about this, I just fucked a virgin.

have a good night lol


would u like a chocolate medal as gratification?


.

.


.
.

..


Just fucking with ya.. but still kinda out of place

[Killikina]

I want an alpha male. The end.

[ReallyPatheticFatSlob]

You are absolutely right! Thank you for pointing this out. Doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results is the definition of STUPIDITY.

The real winners in this world are people who take their "weaknesses" and turn them into advantages. Make the world work for you, not the other way around.

You are full of adages I see.

If you take a nail, align it to a piece of lumber, and hit the nail using a hammer applying five pounds of pressure, you will plant the nail into the wood just a bit.

If you repeat the same procedure, such as striking the nail with 5lbs of pressure with a hammer once again, the nail will go a little further into the wood. Repeat the same procedure over and over again, and the nail will be firmly embedded into the lumber to produce stability.

Repeat the same procedure a few more times, and you will have the foundation of a house.

Therefore, the same procedure repeated over and over again yielded different results - is it safe to assume/to expect that which is demonstrated in reality? But of course we all know it is stupid.

[Kurt Jaydestone]

I want an alpha male. The end.

Well im a nerd but i can for sure keep a girl financialy secure and physicly safe and of coarse do the same for my self

my definition of an alpha male

[Johnny Soporno]

I want an alpha male. The end.

Of course you do, Killi - and any of us would no-doubt be happy to accommodate you!

So long as you are comfortable with the face that we're not able to offer long-term exclusivity to you (or anyone, actually) then everything will work out great!

The more-enlightened amongst us are very upfront about this aspect of our natures, and many have transcended the self-destructive 'jealousy' pitfall, and happily encourage (in my case, insist! (http://venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=859)) our lovers have OTHER lovers, and not rely upon us as their only source of sexual satisfaction.

Johnny Soporno
Lover to Many -
Married to None

[Johnny Soporno]

If you take a nail, align it to a piece of lumber, and hit the nail using a hammer applying five pounds of pressure, you will plant the nail into the wood just a bit.

If you repeat the same procedure, such as striking the nail with 5lbs of pressure with a hammer once again, the nail will go a little further into the wood. Repeat the same procedure over and over again, and the nail will be firmly embedded into the lumber to produce stability.

Repeat the same procedure a few more times, and you will have the foundation of a house.

Therefore, the same procedure repeated over and over again yielded different results - is it safe to assume/to expect that which is demonstrated in reality? But of course we all know it is stupid.

RPFS, if your house is founded on just a few pieces of lumber with a few nails driven through them, remind me not to stop over to visit!

Seriously, the only stupidity demonstrated here was in failing to understand that the original quote presumes that previous attempts were unsuccessful.

But you knew that, didn't you?

Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy

[Poetry]

Of course you do, Killi - and any of us would no-doubt be happy to accommodate you!

So long as you are comfortable with the face that we're not able to offer long-term exclusivity to you (or anyone, actually) then everything will work out great!

The more-enlightened amongst us are very upfront about this aspect of our natures, and many have transcended the self-destructive 'jealousy' pitfall, and happily encourage (in my case, insist! (http://venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=859)) our lovers have OTHER lovers, and not rely upon us as their only source of sexual satisfaction.

Johnny Soporno
Lover to Many -
Married to None

You took the words right out of my mouth... Ever consider writing a book? :D

[Poetry]

would u like a chocolate medal as gratification?


.

.


.
.

..


Just fucking with ya.. but still kinda out of place

Bro, for some reason that sounded good... Remember those German chocolate coins? mmmmm

[Mimicita]

Bro, for some reason that sounded good... Remember those German chocolate coins? mmmmm
Funny, when I think of German chocolate coins, something else comes to mind ;)

[Mimicita]

Well im a nerd but i can for sure keep a girl financialy secure and physicly safe and of coarse do the same for my self

my definition of an alpha male
I'm sorry, Kurt, but definition of "alpha male" isn't up for interpretation. This isn't some vague, abstract notion like "the meaning of life". Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and expressing them in a public forum is encouraged (to the Americans who read this - the first amendment to your Constitution rocks!) In this case, however, we are dealing with a biological/anthropological terms that have been defined a long time ago ;)

[ReallyPatheticFatSlob]

What is unsuccesful may be seemingly unsuccessful.

A goal may not be achieved in few repetitions.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of conversation. Adages are only immortal in the presence of unthinking. (new Adage).

[Poetry]

Funny, when I think of German chocolate coins, something else comes to mind ;)

If you can turn chocolate coins sexual -- you get a gold star.

[Couture]

Mimicita, what women say they want and what they actually respond to are 2 very different things. This is one of the reasons why this topic can be so complex - however, I appreciate your time and effort spent giving your point of views on the issue.

[Killikina]

Of course you do, Killi - and any of us would no-doubt be happy to accommodate you!

So long as you are comfortable with the face that we're not able to offer long-term exclusivity to you (or anyone, actually) then everything will work out great!

The more-enlightened amongst us are very upfront about this aspect of our natures, and many have transcended the self-destructive 'jealousy' pitfall, and happily encourage (in my case, insist! (http://venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=859)) our lovers have OTHER lovers, and not rely upon us as their only source of sexual satisfaction.

Johnny Soporno
Lover to Many -
Married to None

No worries, I have an alpha male that is also my bf and I'm absolutely fulfilled and happy. I can get everything I want in a male plus long term exclusitivity. Lovers are great for transitional times and for fun, but someone who is your lover and best friend is much more satisfying.

[Mimicita]

Mimicita, what women say they want and what they actually respond to are 2 very different things. This is one of the reasons why this topic can be so complex - however, I appreciate your time and effort spent giving your point of views on the issue.
Thank you for your comment. However, I'm afraid that you and several other members who commented in this thread have missed the point entirely. The point I was trying to convey is that women don't appreciate posturing and other forms of fake behaviour. When you like yourself, you don't need to fake anything. Moreover, women aren't like animals on the safari that "respond" to things. The sooner guys realize it, the better. Guess what, we're people too. But perhaps this is a topic for a new thread - stay tuned, boys and girls!

My love to all :)

[JekDaPUA]

Killkina do u watch a lot of Oprah and Dr phil :P

[Deft9]

I think mimicita is a female. The post seemed to be written from a feminine point of view.


Good call man! All of Mystery's stuff about women wanting to attach to the tribal leader seems to make sense to me. I really can't see a woman wanting a guy she and the rest of the world can walk all over.

Here's a lesson from Dale Carnegie. There are three types of personalities: Passive, Assertive, and Aggressive. You want to be in the middle. One example: The assertive person does not seek confrontation, nor does he avoid it. I want to be an alpha male, but not to the point where I act like a dickhead.

[Johnny Soporno]

No worries, I have an alpha male that is also my bf and I'm absolutely fulfilled and happy. I can get everything I want in a male plus long term exclusitivity.

That's great to hear!

I sincerely hope that your experiences on this forum will serve you well; and prepare you psychologically for the future.

I'm further hopeful that you'll both prove strong-enough and smart-enough to appreciate, rather than dread, the times-ahead, when you both get primal, existential pleasure (rather than anxiety!) out of knowing that your beloved is having a great time, even if that 'great time' is had with another, and you have ZERO doubt that they will return to enjoy further great-times with you, at home.

Lovers are great for transitional times and for fun, but someone who is your lover and best friend is much more satisfying.

Indeed - I'm best-friends with most of my lovers, especially my Primary, whom I could not be happier-with if I'd ordered her built-to-suit!

Absolute love, the kind which transcends 'possessiveness' and dispels 'jealousy', enriches everyone who comes into contact with it - much like a candle may ignite as many other candles as come into contact with it, without taking anything away from the initial flame :)

Johnny Soporno
Flaming Heterosexual

[Aetio]

Good call man! All of Mystery's stuff about women wanting to attach to the tribal leader seems to make sense to me. I really can't see a woman wanting a guy she and the rest of the world can walk all over.

Here's a lesson from Dale Carnegie. There are three types of personalities: Passive, Assertive, and Aggressive. You want to be in the middle. One example: The assertive person does not seek confrontation, nor does he avoid it. I want to be an alpha male, but not to the point where I act like a dickhead.


I think the man she described in her first post is Assertive

[Aetio]

Thank you for your comment. However, I'm afraid that you and several other members who commented in this thread have missed the point entirely. The point I was trying to convey is that women don't appreciate posturing and other forms of fake behaviour. When you like yourself, you don't need to fake anything. Moreover, women aren't like animals on the safari that "respond" to things. The sooner guys realize it, the better. Guess what, we're people too. But perhaps this is a topic for a new thread - stay tuned, boys and girls!

My love to all :)

I don´t think this is bout posturing.. but development of male character.
In the last 3 years I´m other person totally diferent .. and I assure you.. I aint posturing. And you know what... I´m really happy with who I am and the direction I´m heading... I don´t think there is nothing wrong with that.. do you??

I got what you were trying to say in your first post and I agree... in a way reminds me of what tyler durden is teaching lately.

[Killikina]

Killkina do u watch a lot of Oprah and Dr phil :P

No, do you?!

[Killikina]

That's great to hear!

I sincerely hope that your experiences on this forum will serve you well; and prepare you psychologically for the future.

I'm further hopeful that you'll both prove strong-enough and smart-enough to appreciate, rather than dread, the times-ahead, when you both get primal, existential pleasure (rather than anxiety!) out of knowing that your beloved is having a great time, even if that 'great time' is had with another, and you have ZERO doubt that they will return to enjoy further great-times with you, at home.



Indeed - I'm best-friends with most of my lovers, especially my Primary, whom I could not be happier-with if I'd ordered her built-to-suit!

Absolute love, the kind which transcends 'possessiveness' and dispels 'jealousy', enriches everyone who comes into contact with it - much like a candle may ignite as many other candles as come into contact with it, without taking anything away from the initial flame :)

Johnny Soporno
Flaming Heterosexual

Johnny, to predict that my beloved will be having a great time with someone else and returning to me is quite gloomy and cynical. It makes me assume you grew up in a broken home where affairs were common. Not once have I been cheated on while in a monogamous relationship and it pains me to hear that you already painting a negative veil on the outcome of my relationship.

I truly doubt that someone who is unable to be perfectly satisfied with one individual is able to comprehend the definition of love.

[Killikina]

Just because the dude is in a relationship with me doesn't mean he doesnt have alpha male characteristics.

You just want a definition or excuse to be able to justify fucking several women at a time. "Its in our genes, I'm an alpha male" Blah blah. All I hear is: COMMITTMENT PHOBIC.

You know I'm all about fun and variety but I also know when to get real. That's the difference.

PS: I've known the dude since kindergarten so that night is not how we met.

[Mimicita]

I don´t think this is bout posturing.. but development of male character.
In the last 3 years I´m other person totally diferent .. and I assure you.. I aint posturing. And you know what... I´m really happy with who I am and the direction I´m heading... I don´t think there is nothing wrong with that.. do you??

I got what you were trying to say in your first post and I agree... in a way reminds me of what tyler durden is teaching lately.
If you're happy with yourself and you feel comfortable in your own skin, more power to you! By working on yourself, you've become more confident in your game, and probably in life in general, right? This is exactly what I was talking about. However, you did mention that it took you three years to reach this point, which suggests that you didn't take the quick-fix "fake it 'til you make it" route. Instead, you worked on yourself and made yourself a better person, and I congratulate you on this.

[Johnny Soporno]

Johnny, to predict that my beloved will be having a great time with someone else and returning to me is quite gloomy and cynical.

NOT AT ALL! When you TRULY love a person, and their happiness and enjoyment-of-life is essential to your own, then you will be DELIGHTED by any life-affirming, satisfaction-generating activities in which they safely engage!

In no-way did I intend to sound negative! Quite the reverse - I was expressing my wish that your ongoing relationship involves genuine love, (which is neither selfish, nor greedy, nor fearful) and that it grows and matures along with you.

It makes me assume you grew up in a broken home where affairs were common.

A poor assumption :) Neither of my parents EVER cheated on each other -
nor were they even ever tempted to, since it would have been completely unnecessary. You see, I grew up in a home with no-tradition of sexual exclusivity.

Both my parents had extra-marital relationships, with fine people who were 'extended family' to me, and where there was never any dishonesty, covertness, nor pretense of inappropriateness. [/quote]


Not once have I been cheated on while in a monogamous relationship and it pains me to hear that you already painting a negative veil on the outcome of my relationship.

I'm not painting any veil of any sort, Killi - and it pains ME to be so grossly misinterpreted. I hope my above-comments will have helped rectify this misunderstanding?

I truly doubt that someone who is unable to be perfectly satisfied with one individual is able to comprehend the definition of love.

"Comprehend the definition of love" is an ironic phrase, in this case...
Just whose 'definition of love' are you describing?

Taking into account the likely 400% life-experience difference between us, I recognize that the jejune notion of romantic love which I suss you've got in mind (the kind of love which presumes jealousy, possessiveness, and 'two-hearts-beating-as-one'-connection, where every desire is fulfilled by their partner) is the storybook, fairy-tale love which young people are taught to believe.

I'm sorry to tell you this, K, but there's no Santa Claus either.

There are two (commonly accepted) discrete aspects of love: 'Erotic love' (Eros) and 'brotherly love' (Agape) - two separate-yet-parallel experiences, each of which may be experienced with any-number of others - whether reciprocated or not.

When the two ARE conjoined, as you've described (in a previous post) yours and your BF's to be, then the world surely feels fantastic!

That situation CAN be made to last, if the participants are open and communicative as to what each one truly wants; and both participants are dedicated to ensuring that the other GETS what they truly want.

If two people ARE so perfectly-synchronized and harmonized that as they age, and mature, and become more-like-themselves they don't grow apart, discovering that in their development they have become less like each-other - they should DEFINATELY AVOID HAVING CHILDREN TOGETHER! The likelihood of significant birth-defects in children born to pairs-of-twins are even greater than to normal siblings! ;)

Johnny Soporno
Love Therapist

[Johnny Soporno]

Just because the dude is in a relationship with me doesn't mean he doesnt have alpha male characteristics.


Of course it doesn't - one thing has nothing to do with the other. MOST men will exhibit/demonstrate 'alpha-male characteristics' if they believe they can get-away with it.


You just want a definition or excuse to be able to justify fucking several women at a time. "Its in our genes, I'm an alpha male" Blah blah. All I hear is: COMMITTMENT PHOBIC.


Heh. I'll agree that most self-labeled 'alphas' would gladly jump onto the 'excuse' bandwagon, because it permits them guiltlessly to indulge themselves.

But for GENUINE Alphas, it's a major, MAJOR problem - and can cost us our most powerful love-relationships [largely due to poor expectation-management].

For instance, I am COMPLETELY SMITTEN with my wife, Snowball, whom I consider to be both stunning and brilliant, charming, sexy and beautiful, and a fabulous lay! er, lady! Well, both, frankly ;)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1343/565993006_8ab4a6f8e8.jpghttp://farm2.static.flickr.com/1377/871906280_3db8d9796c_d.jpghttp://farm2.static.flickr.com/1285/565986758_3c9d44cefe.jpg
Snowball Soporno (http://xpeeps.com/SnowballSoporno) (photos (c) Johnny Soporno (http://www.JohnnySoporno.com))

Nevertheless, if I were ONLY to have sex with her, and no others, I'd rapidly lose my sexual-interest (ie, my ability to achieve & maintain an erection) despite my emotional-dedication, spiritual connection, and sexual attraction for her. We might be able to consummate our love twice-a-week, IF THAT, if we were strictly exclusive.

Fortunately, she and I both understand and accept MY NATURE, and since we love each-other completely, without any jealousy, possessiveness, nor fear-of-loss everything is PERFECT - (besides, a big part of HER NATURE is to be VERY sexually adventurous herself, and gets around plenty too!)

I NEED new pheromone-imprints (from other girls) in order to 'recharge my batteries' - I an affected by what is commonly called 'The Coolidge Effect (http://www.heretical.com/wilson/coolidge.html)' as are ALL natural [I]Alphas.

Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy

[ReallyPatheticFatSlob]

Snowball soporno. haha..

I saw her in an adult film once, but I never knew her stage name. Wow, I had no idea.

[Killikina]

Nevertheless, if I were ONLY to have sex with her, and no others, I'd rapidly lose my sexual-interest (ie, my ability to achieve & maintain an erection) despite my emotional-dedication, spiritual connection, and sexual attraction for her. We might be able to consummate our love twice-a-week, IF THAT, if we were strictly exclusive.



There's an invention called Viagra.

[HBPornstar]

There's an invention called Viagra.

Wow, I have to say, K, that while you think "to predict that my beloved will be having a great time with someone else and returning to me is quite gloomy and cynical", I think that your notion of an alpha being constrained to just one sexual partner and *requiring* Viagra to combat their body's natural lack of sexual response - even if their mind and heart are in it - due to insufficient pheromone stimuli is way beyond gloomy and cynical. Your position is selfish and indefensible.

[ReallyPatheticFatSlob]

Now I understand why women only say BLAH BLAH BLAH in field reports.

[Johnny Soporno]

Now I understand why women only say BLAH BLAH BLAH in field reports.

Yes, it's because the guys transcribing the field-reports are like Ginger:

http://www.bakbone.com/newsletter/images/ginger_large.gif

Completely incapable of recognizing the meaning behind what the women are actually saying, and instead only listening for significant keywords.

Tragic shame, really.

Johnny Soporno
Stand-up Philosopher

[Killikina]

Wow, I have to say, K, that while you think "to predict that my beloved will be having a great time with someone else and returning to me is quite gloomy and cynical", I think that your notion of an alpha being constrained to just one sexual partner and *requiring* Viagra to combat their body's natural lack of sexual response - even if their mind and heart are in it - due to insufficient pheromone stimuli is way beyond gloomy and cynical. Your position is selfish and indefensible.

Im not defining an alpha male in relation to their number of sexual partners. Others on this forum did. They assume because a guy is in a relationship with one woman he's not alpha. I'm saying that's not the case. An alpha male can have only one OR multiple partners.

As for Viagra, I was being harsh on Johnny for using The Coolidge Effect to explain why he must have multiple woman. Note that they did tests on this for woman as well and it applies to them too. But you don't see woman like me saying I need variety because of the Coolidge Effect. I'll just go ahead and admit that when Im involved with multiple men its because: 1) I get bored easily 2) Don't want to get attached to one person because I'm not emotionally available.

[Killikina]

Yes, it's because the guys transcribing the field-reports are like Ginger:

http://www.bakbone.com/newsletter/images/ginger_large.gif

Completely incapable of recognizing the meaning behind what the women are actually saying, and instead only listening for significant keywords.

Tragic shame, really.

Johnny Soporno
Stand-up Philosopher

Women go around in circles instead of getting straight to the point. Whereas women can pick up on other non-verbal cues, men will almost always take what is said at face-value.

To both men and woman: just get straight to the point. No one is a mind reader!

[Johnny Soporno]

No one is a mind reader!


I KNEW you were going to say that!

JS ;)

[JekDaPUA]

actually everyone's a mind reader thats the problem

[Johnny Soporno]

I'm not defining an alpha male in relation to their number of sexual partners. Others on this forum did. They assume because a guy is in a relationship with one woman he's not alpha. I'm saying that's not the case. An alpha male can have only one OR multiple partners.

I believe you're responding to a different criticism than the one HBPornstar made? I think she meant that your suggestion that a man SHOULD use Viagra to maintain his sexual-availability to you is selfish and inhumane (correct me if I'm wrong, HPB).

It appears you are instead responding to Rewok's dismissal of your current-partner's 'alpha-ness'.

I believe alpha males ONLY maintain sexual-exclusivity in response to societal-pressure (that is it not in their nature to be exclusive, but they will act against their nature for the sake of their partner) but that it is psychologically detrimental to them, and only lasts until the end of the infatuation-phase of a relationship - after which, if they feel they can 'get away with it' they will surreptitiously stray.

In my experience, this has ALWAYS proven itself, consistently for over twenty years of observation. (I'm not talking out of my hat here!)

As for Viagra, I was being harsh on Johnny for using The Coolidge Effect to explain why he must have multiple woman.

Why? The Coolidge Effect (http://www.heretical.com/wilson/coolidge.html) is the appropriate explanation and justification, in the same way as The Placebo Effect (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/altmed/snake/placebo.html) would be to explain the efficacy of 'snake oils'...

Note that they did tests on this for woman as well and it applies to them too. But you don't see woman like me saying I need variety because of the Coolidge Effect.

I have been unable to find any results which support this, excepting the effects of 'dishabituation (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=10553696&ordinalpos=7&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVDocSum)', which is noted in females and beta males? Could you please post links to corroborating articles?

That said, I FULLY support womens' satisfaction of their equally-urgent (perhaps MORE urgent) drive for multiple-partners, (as evidenced by 'sperm competition' and the existence of the unnatural construct 'marriage') and thusly insist ALL of my own partners have 'alternates' (of their selection) to me.

I'll just go ahead and admit that when I'm involved with multiple men its because: 1) I get bored easily 2) I don't want to get attached to one person because I'm not emotionally available.

That seems fair to me! Your decisions are your business, Killikina - far be it from me to take that from you - but self-deception is the root of all evil, as I always say - so for your sake, I hope you either reconsider your notions of 'love', alter your expectations of your partner, or are mistaken in your supposition that he is, in fact, an alpha-male.


Respectfully,
Johnny Soporno
Lifestyle Guru

[HBPornstar]

I believe you're responding to a different criticism than the one HBPornstar made? I think she meant that your suggestion that a man SHOULD use Viagra to maintain his sexual-availability to you is selfish and inhumane (correct me if I'm wrong, HPB).

The only think I could correct you on would be your dyslexic slip there, but hey - I keep the 'sexy' in dyslexia, so I don't mind ;)


That said, I FULLY support womens' satisfaction of their equally-urgent (perhaps MORE urgent) drive for multiple-partners, (as evidenced by 'sperm competition' and the existence of the unnatural construct 'marriage') and thusly insist ALL of my own partners have 'alternates' (of their selection) to me.

Something is jumping out in my mind regarding the idea of a woman's drive for multiple-partners. I believe it may also be due to women's variable desires. Something that 'gets me going' one day is sometimes so drastically different in a couple of days or even the next day, that it is unreasonable to expect complete sexual satisfaction from just one partner.

This is especially true in my case because my primary partner is a true alpha. I could never expect him to be 'good-to-go' every day and in every way that I need, just as I could never fulfill all of his needs and desires exclusively. Knowing that he is out with someone having a great time sexually, (especially because it completely 'recharges his batteries' and he comes home with even more sexual vigor for me), makes me feel so content. I'm not saying this will work for everyone, but it certainly works well for us!

Cheers!

[Killikina]

Im sorry but having your mate come home to you after knowing they have been with someone else is a big turn off for me.

Tell me having sex with a girl while you smell some other guy's juice isn't going to turn you off? Bleh!

[HBPornstar]

Im sorry but having your mate come home to you after knowing they have been with someone else is a big turn off for me.

See, this is where we differ, greatly, kk, I am quite turned on by this. I don't have insecurity, territoriality, or jealousy, and knowing my primary (or any of my lovers) is out with someone else causes me no feelings of inadequacy or fear of losing him. It is no threat to our sex life, intimacy, comittment or love; in fact, it only helps to *strengthen* these things. Knowing that his sexual encounters and intimacy with other girls satisfies him in ways I couldn't singularly, generates my appreciation for these girls who help make my guy so happy. His being happy is what makes me feel truly exultant, and whether his happiness it's caused my my influences or someone else's or a mix of both (which it usually is) doesn't matter.

Besides, I know my guy is the most amazing lover that I've ever had, and probably will be for most of the girls he sees as well. It not only makes me so proud to know how gratified he's making these other girls, it turns me on thinking about it. It's also a big turn on to have three- (or more) -somes where we get to show off our sexual prowess and enjoy the delights of our happiness and sexuality together.:D


Tell me having sex with a girl while you smell some other guy's juice isn't going to turn you off? Bleh!

I can't speak for other people, but if my partner has such poor hygiene habits that this would happen, I wouldn't be having sex with them in the first place. Not to mention in open relationships condoms are a *must* so no guy is going to leave his 'juice' in me anyway. Any 'leftovers' on my skin are simply washed away by a shower. No biggie. :cool:

(on a side note: whether it's due to my voracious sexual appetite or my chosen career, I actually like the smell of sex. It's arousing ;))

[ReallyPatheticFatSlob]

I believe this issue is far from Killikina's reality - it's like culture shock. It's like introducing an 18-year-old white Kansas boy to devotional crucifixions in the Philippines where even nails are driven through the hands or polgamy in some Arabic societies. What is enlightment to one group of people is complete sin to another.

Practices and beliefs that are far removed from one's reality will rarely be welcomed with open arms.

[Couture]

Johnny, to predict that my beloved will be having a great time with someone else and returning to me is quite gloomy and cynical. It makes me assume you grew up in a broken home where affairs were common. Not once have I been cheated on while in a monogamous relationship and it pains me to hear that you already painting a negative veil on the outcome of my relationship.

I truly doubt that someone who is unable to be perfectly satisfied with one individual is able to comprehend the definition of love.

Your views are the product of too many romance movies where both the man and the woman ride off into the sunset and life happily ever after.

Unfortunately, life doesn't work like this.


For instance, I am COMPLETELY SMITTEN with my wife, Snowball,

Me too! lol

I believe this issue is far from Killikina's reality - it's like culture shock....What is enlightment to one group of people is complete sin to another.

Exactly...

[Killikina]

I haven't seen my biological father since I was seven and my parents separated four years ago. I did not grow up with parents who had a fairytale relationship. In fact I grew up witnessing abuse, infidelity and abandonment. I am coming from a VERY cynical background. To say that my views are a product of too many romance movies is a joke.

To say that this is culture shock is a bit extreme. You forget that I used to date multiple men and have more sexual experience than most girls my age.

What separates me, from some of you, is my own personal morals and ethics.

This is a serious question. How many of you tell your parents you are fucking multiple people? If not, why not? Would you want your little sister to be involved with a man that also sees other women on the side? Is Style who was in a serious relationship and others who have gotten married beta males?

[Johnny Soporno]

I am coming from a VERY cynical background....to say that this is culture shock is a bit extreme. You forget that I used to date multiple men and have more sexual experience than most girls my age.

I haven't forgotten that - although I just learned it today, from the very post to which I am replying now ;)

Now that I do know it, and I'm taking it into account - I must admit I'm surprised that you were unable to discover anything about love in all those previous relationships?

Your (combined) parents clearly demonstrated to you that entering into a committed, long-term relationship has NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on how one feels about their partner, nor how they get along once the 'new car scent' of the infatuation has passed...?

SO I wonder why you'd be so dogmatic in believing that your 'morals and ethics' are so-far superior to the standards and practices of the rest of us?

It concerns me, because I would have to say (and I could easily find 100+ people who'd stand up for me in this) that I am about the most consistent, predictable, clear-headed and ethical person I've ever known, and also about the happiest. I NEVER betray my ethics, (about which I am SO obvious and consistent that virtually everyone who knows me AT ALL knows how I will respond to things automatically) and I am completely secure and comfortable in my self-satisfaction, knowing that I harm no-one and improve the lives of thousands. [no foolin']

This is a serious question:

How many of you tell your parents you are fucking multiple people?

My parents have met DOZENS of my lovers, naturally. My WIFE'S parents prefer to turn a respectful 'blind eye' to the nitty-gritty details of our relationship, but they know she used to be married to another woman (notice her trampstamp ;)) and they are very pleased for her to be with me instead. (bear in mind that I have been fixed, AND Snowball has been fixed, so grandkids are not a motivator to her folks)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1305/591695900_2a3567fbcc.jpg

Would you want your little sister to be involved with a man that also sees other women on the side?

If my 22 year old, super-genius IQ, Harvard-grad kid-sister were involved with a man who DIDN'T have enough sex-drive to see multiple women, I'd be very surprized - and I'd caution her, most-sincerely, that she will break his heart when he catches her fucking around - so she must be upfront about her nature, and allow him the freedom and dignity to decide what HE must do - even if that means she's got to let him go.

Is Style who was in a serious relationship and others who have gotten married beta males?

As I've pointed out several times, being alpha is NOT what it's cracked up to be! Being beta USUALLY affords a much-better life, since our entire society has been crafted for, and by betas.
Freed from the overwhelming NEEDS of alphas to compete, and to establish dominance, betas can cooperate and 'play well with others' MUCH more readily, and thereby generate much more persistent, grand creations than alphas can hope to, single-handedly.

Most alphas who marry under 'monogamous rules' inevitably 'cheat', and their relationships crater terribly. Only a proactive acceptance of the unavoidable truth can protect the emotions of those involved. Q.E.D.

VERY Sincerely,
Johnny Soporno
Lifestyle Guru

[Killikina]

Before I dated multiple men at once, I was in two LTRs. One that lasted 3 years and another 2 years. From those experiences, I learned about love. I don't believe you can be truly in love when you are involved with multiple people. Again the difference with me is that my experiences are only temporary and not a LIFESTYLE. I let go of a PUA because I was starting to fall for him and knew he would never feel the same way for me because his emotions were divided among his other girls. I want someone who wants only me as a lover AND a mate. I DO believe that there are happily married couples out there that have never cheated on each other and never will. What works for you doesn't have to work for me and I will challenge anyone that prematurely determines the fate of my relationship. Rewok said it wouldn't last a week. He's already wrong.

[Couture]

According to the laws of nature, we are biologically built to cheat. Why is it that 90% of a mans sperm is gladiator sperm, built to fight off another mans sperm? Because women cheat.

Love and marriage is the creation of beta males and if you believe in true love I really have no idea why this forum would appeal to you.

[Mimicita]

It's only cheating if you break the contract of exclusivity you've made with your life partner. If no such contract exists and both people understand that they are together because they CHOOSE to be together, then no one will feel cheated.

[Mimicita]

As I've pointed out several times, being alpha is NOT what it's cracked up to be! Being beta USUALLY affords a much-better life, since our entire society has been crafted for, and by betas.
Freed from the overwhelming NEEDS of alphas to compete, and to establish dominance, betas can cooperate and 'play well with others' MUCH more readily, and thereby generate much more persistent, grand creations than alphas can hope to, single-handedly.

Most alphas who marry under 'monogamous rules' inevitably 'cheat', and their relationships crater terribly. Only a proactive acceptance of the unavoidable truth can protect the emotions of those involved.

Thank you, Johnny, for supporting my argument and re-stating it with such elegance. I've seen your tapes and found them to be profoundly insightful and very funny! Rock on!

Mimi~

[Killikina]

According to the laws of nature, we are biologically built to cheat. Why is it that 90% of a mans sperm is gladiator sperm, built to fight off another mans sperm? Because women cheat.

Love and marriage is the creation of beta males and if you believe in true love I really have no idea why this forum would appeal to you.

Biologically. But are you doing it to reproduce? Nope. Simply for pleasure and that's the difference bud.

I have never cheated and never will.

I'm sorry your life is so sheltered and you have never experienced love.

There are people in this community that do believe in relationships, love, and self-improvement.

[Killikina]

Oh and just to add, I have not heard anyone mention OMEGA males. Learn the difference between Omega and Beta.

[Johnny Soporno]

Oh and just to add, I have not heard anyone mention OMEGA males. Learn the difference between Omega and Beta.

I don't think anyone here is accusing anyone else on this forum of being an Omega male. I'm not sure why you'd bring something that depressing to light in this thread?

From Wikipedia: Omega male

The term omega male (ω-male) is an antonym (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonym) often used in a deprecating or self-deprecating manner to refer to males at the bottom of the social hierarchy. An omega male will be subservient to both the alpha and the beta males.


Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy

[JekDaPUA]

someone needs to learn their greek alphabet :P

[Mimicita]

someone needs to learn their greek alphabet :P
Or at least how to use Google :p

[JekDaPUA]

exactly :D

[Killikina]

I don't think anyone here is accusing anyone else on this forum of being an Omega male. I'm not sure why you'd bring something that depressing to light in this thread?

From Wikipedia: Omega male

The term omega male (ω-male) is an antonym (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonym) often used in a deprecating or self-deprecating manner to refer to males at the bottom of the social hierarchy. An omega male will be subservient to both the alpha and the beta males.


Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy

I'm definately not accusing anyone of being an omega male I'm just curious as to why it was not even mentioned as some people on here could be described as omega males trying to become beta males and fit into society. We have to remember that alpha/beta/omega refers not only to sexual habits but social hierarchy as well.

[Johnny Soporno]

We have to remember that alpha/beta/omega refers not only to sexual habits but social hierarchy as well.

As I've mentioned before, I don't believe a person can actually change their type - but I certainly believe a person may opt to attempt to live as another type - but I don't believe it will be easy, nor comfortable.

Alphas who attempt to live as betas will have the challenges I've already mentioned... Betas who wish to live as alphas have a much easier-time of it, EXCEPT that they tend to fall into serial-monogamy patterns, which alienates their non-primary relationships terribly.

As for Omegas, I haven't had any experience with them, as they generally are not-even-interested in improving their situation... which is why I don't expect to find any of their ilk on these forums! :)

Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy

[ReallyPatheticFatSlob]

Killikina sends me a PM everday calling me an Omega Male. I didn't know what it meant until I read this thread today. Now I understand why her Post Script in the message read,"P.S. Why don't you do us both a favor and just kill yourself?"

I take it she is the type of person that likes to put scotch tape on the bottoms of cat's feet.

[Poetry]

Killikina sends me a PM everday calling me an Omega Male. I didn't know what it meant until I read this thread today. Now I understand why her Post Script in the message read,"P.S. Why don't you do us both a favor and just kill yourself?"

I take it she is the type of person that likes to put scotch tape on the bottoms of cat's feet.

I giggled.

[Couture]

I take it she is the type of person that likes to put scotch tape on the bottoms of cat's feet.

Hey, thats actually pretty fun lol

[Dynamico]

If I go balls out in a basketball game or MMA match but in a chess match I relax, when I making music I strive for excellence and integrity but in product design I aim at innovation and personal satisfaction,at Burger King I'll let ladies in front of the line..etc..etc..What am I then?




Ps. if you make a joke make sure it's funny

[Dynamico]

I disagree that being alpha is a genetic thing, genes come into play but so does environment and in a big way.

Mimicita there is nothing fake about wanting to learn and grow which is what I believe most of us are working on. Just as with anything else through practice / repetition things become second nature and more natural aka not fake. There is definitely going to be those type of men that you don't like walking around but there will also be just as many of those women out there to balance things out. Unless someone can prove that all women are perfect enlightened beings...

[Mimicita]

As I've mentioned before, I don't believe a person can actually change their type - but I certainly believe a person may opt to attempt to live as another type - but I don't believe it will be easy, nor comfortable.
One's social type is much like being right-handed or left-handed. Both are inherent qualities. In certain countries, left-handedness is seen as a "medical defect", so parents and schools try to "teach" left-handed kids how to use the right hand "properly" for writing, eating, etc. Eventually, the kids learn but their handwriting is never as good or comfortable as it would have been if they did what comes naturally to them - used their left hand as the dominant one.

Likewise, there is NOTHING WRONG with being a Beta male. A well-adjusted, happy and accomplished Beta is much more attractive to girls than a self-doubting, angry Alpha.

[Johnny Soporno]

One's social type is much like being right-handed or left-handed. Both are inherent qualities. In certain countries, left-handedness is seen as a "medical defect", so parents and schools try to "teach" left-handed kids how to use the right hand "properly" for writing, eating, etc. Eventually, the kids learn but their handwriting is never as good or comfortable as it would have been if they did what comes naturally to them - used their left hand as the dominant one.


Good point, M - another common side-effect of this misassignment is dyslexia; the hand CAN be trained, but the brain continues to perform in the normal way...


http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5693171,00.gif < -- (From http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22556281-661,00.html)

Some people will notice this ballerina spinning clockwise, others will see the reverse - it depends principally upon their left/right 'brainedness' - and while everyone SHOULD be able to switch it around by choice, it will always tend to appear the same way upon first-glance.


Likewise, there is NOTHING WRONG with being a Beta male. A well-adjusted, happy and accomplished Beta is much more attractive to girls than a self-doubting, angry Alpha.

Absolutely so - people who cannot become comfortable with themselves are never comforting to others.

Johnny Soporno
Lifestyle Guru

[Killikina]

Ack, thanks Johnny for that pic. Now my brain is hurting! I can only see her dancing clockwise!

[HBPornstar]

That gif is awesome!

I can see it spin in both directions if I want, but my default has her 'waving' her leg back and forth as opposed to making a full spin. Does that mean I use both sides of my brain equally? Maybe it's because I'm bisexual :p

[HBPornstar]

Before I dated multiple men at once, I was in two LTRs. One that lasted 3 years and another 2 years. From those experiences, I learned about love. I don't believe you can be truly in love when you are involved with multiple people.

I can appreciate what you are saying, and can now see why you have been so unwilling to accept that love can and does happen in non-monogamous relationships. I believe your lack of experience with true love has made you into a bit of a 'Doubting Thomas', someone who will refuse to believe something without direct, personal evidence.


I let go of a PUA because I was starting to fall for him and knew he would never feel the same way for me because his emotions were divided among his other girls.

How did you know that? All I hear from this is an excuse to absolve yourself from lacking courage when facing something difficult. Love is certainly not an easy thing, and it takes a lot of work, but the rewards are so amazingly vast, that it's a shame you shied away from what could have been so fulfilling for you. Then again, your defeatist attitude only demonstrates to me that you wouldn't be able to handle such a situation anyway.


I DO believe that there are happily married couples out there that have never cheated on each other and never will.

Now this I *know* exists, because I am incredibly happy, as is my guy, and we have never cheated on each other. Non-monogamy is not the same thing as cheating. This could be one of your disconnects.

I want someone who wants only me as a lover AND a mate.

Well, what can I say, except that I hope you find what you are looking for, and when you do, that the lack of sex doesn't bring you down :p But seriously, I do wish you well, I simply wanted to open your mind a little to the possibility of non-monogamous, true love relationships, even if they aren't for *you* personally.


Cheers!

HBPornstar
proof that you can be truly in love when you are involved with multiple people

[SethAudere]

Just one thing to this discussion: It is simply not true that you either are born alpha or you are a beta guy. It simply is wrong. I know a guy that was always mobbed by the group and he was surely no alpha - now, two years later, he's the leading guy of the group totally confident. There is some research about this, even with apes it is possible to make the beta-male become an alpha male only through giving him some hormones. The alpha male is per definition the leader of the tribe. This can definitly change. I know some guys who behaved once submissive now behaving dominant because they got their life managed and because people started to respond different towards them so they themselves began to act and feel in a different way. By the way: The alpha-man is the one who can give women the most protection. Reading some David Buss helps on this. I think much women instinctivly don't think that investing in this alpha-male will get them a result - so they try it more likely with a more beta-male.

Alpha behaviour in itself isn't a measure of masculinity, but simply an inherent quality in some people. What's more important, girls aren't interested in Alphas most of the time. Security is the number one female motivator, and this is something that an Alpha male cannot provide.
First: It would be nice if you would describe exactly what alpha-behaviour means to you. To some degree, alpha-behaviour is per definition a measure of masculinity. I think we're talking about different things. Alpha males are the ones who can provide the most security. They are on top of the group. They have privileges. If long time ago a woman couldn't get the alpha male of the group appreciate her (with offering him sex of course) her chances of survival decreased.

[Johnny Soporno]

Just one thing to this discussion: It is simply not true that you either are born alpha or you are a beta guy. It simply is wrong.

Clearly we're not discussing the same thing, here - where I use the word alpha I am referring to a male who has the genetic & hormonal predilection to be incapable of accepting being subjugated, and who is compelled to dominate other males, and fertilize all females.

Similarly, where I use the term beta I am describing a male who does not have a superabundance of androgens, and is comfortable being part of a group in which he is not 'the leader', and where his opportunities for reproductive success are less-or-not-connected to his OWN genes being passed-on by his own sexual congress, but rather by his facilitating the success of the tribe/his spouses' offspring.


I know a guy that was always mobbed by the group and he was surely no alpha - now, two years later, he's the leading guy of the group totally confident.

That's terrific! He's figured out how to demonstrate alpha traits, it sound like... Good on him!


There is some research about this, even with apes it is possible to make the beta-male become an alpha male only through giving him some hormones.

Yes, since the beta didn't receive the hormones an alpha would have while still in the womb, it is possible to alter his temperament so that he would behave as an alpha, and develop physiologically as an alpha would.

This is the same reason that humans begin intensive hormone-therapy before undergoing a sex-change (gender reassignment) procedure: All embryos start-out 'female' and the encoded instructions of the Y-Chromosome promote the release of androgens (masculine hormones) which modifies the embryo until it develops as a male.

It is also very evident when observing bodybuilders or athletes who augment their natural balance or anabolic steroids (androgens such as free testosterone) and become aggressive, hostile, short-tempered, and unpleasant to be around.

The alpha male is per definition the leader of the tribe. This can definitly change.

Actually, by definition, the leader of the tribe is DESCRIBED as the Alpha Male, but might not actually BE a naturally-dominant alpha at all, and if a weaker, less-powerful natural alpha were to appear, he would virtually certainly assume control of the tribe.

I know some guys who behaved once submissive now behaving dominant because they got their life managed and because people started to respond different towards them so they themselves began to act and feel in a different way.

Again, that's excellent! However that doesn't relate to the question of a person's genotype, but merely how they are perceived.

Being effective, empowered, and self-actualized, IS NOT THE EXCLUSIVE DOMAIN OF ALPHAS, and truthfully it is FAR easier to accomplish all of those excellent traits as a beta than as a genetic alpha, since all our societies are heavily slanted towards betas in any case - since betas have always been able to work-together and share success.

Johnny Soporno
Lifestyle Guru

[HERQ]

I have a post on another website about this and thought I should include it here.-
"Alot of the threads that exist on this website and on other forums discussing 'Alpha Males' and/or how to become one needs to make the distinction of a true Alpha male to Alpha male behaviour.
Remember Alpha male behaviour is used for attraction purposes,to 'switch on' those biological preferences that exist at the sub conscious level in females.Just like a beautiful woman can to us males.But remember these are exihibited behaviours,and they dont even have to be authentic.(Thats why some women,segments of modern media and other object to PUA's.The idea of 'playing' a role and having it work and in somehow 'deceiving' them,shames people in being duped)
But Real Alpha males just are.Be it due to high androgen hormones or personality types born into them,they are what they are.These personality types will always occur in nature and in varying degrees.Even then there are different levels and different types to this discription.For example the alpha in a prison system does not necessarily make a sucessful alpha in the outside world.Or the alpha in the millitary compared to one in the business enviroment.
Or even in the social dynamics scene,one alpha might come across as too brutish or intimidating to some girls yet appeal to others.
The true comparrison I believe should be in the comparrison of the so called 'Natural' to the skill learnt Pua.And even then the Natural might not even be an Alpha.
Remember your exhibiting the behaviour and attributes of an Alpha,and even trying to ingrain these attributes into your physche.But true Alphas are what they are and there can be only so few because natural selection limits the number."
Appologies if some info has already been discussed.

To both Johnny and Seth,quick question,Your opinions and obsevations on How Alpha some of our leaders are?ie Political leaders,Business Leaders etc.
What we perceive as very Alpha in one world does not necessarily apply to other areas.

[SethAudere]

I believe that everyone of us has the abillity to develop some kind of the "alpha" in himself. Simply because those guys had more children so nature selected the beta-males out. Beta-male is in my opinion more the guy that can't step up to be alpha because there already is an alpha or the rest of the group preventing him from getting there. If our leaders are alpha or not is dependant on what exactly you define as alpha - if you define alpha as the leader then it should be ovious. If you define alpha as a healthy male who doesn't have any psychological problems and is calm within himself, it'll sometimes be different.

[HERQ]

An 'Alpha' in the past might have more children but it doesnt mean he can transmit that tendancy along his bloodline.How many times have you noticed a strong willed man having sons that dont live up to his reputation.As an example from the fictional TV world,Tony soprano and his son.(A real world example doesnt come to mind at the moment).
'Alpha and Beta males' are descriptions of social charateristics in social groups.You could get every Alpha(and all those that think they are)and put them in the group and eventually only one Alpha will exist.Oh there may be some verbal and physical fights but eventually a pecking order will develop because eventually each will recognise who they can and cannot dominate(via there persona).Thats why you can give off signs that you have Alpha male qualities but you cant be the Alpha in every situation.

[A36DD4ME]

Ok, I must admit that I didn't read every post but I read enough of them to wonder if some of the posters have even read Mystery's book.

First off, anybody who has would know that listening to a woman's opinions on what women like is worse than useless, it is harmful. Women might tell you what pleases their ego at your expense but that's about it. Make two on line profiles - let a woman write one and a seasoned PUA write the other. I guarantee the PUA profile will blow out the woman's hands down in hits.

As for the Alpha male - in the animal world this is simply the largest and strongest male as mating rights are determined through combat. A human alpha male is determined by social status. Anyone who read the MM should know this. Essentially, the way to be an alpha male is to be a rock star or to come off as being a rock star - fake it till you make it. The whole point of the MM is that you LEARN to view yourself as a rock star and eventually become one by setting up a self fulfilling prophecy. Mystery teaches us first how a rock star/ high value male / alpha male behaves and how to emulate this behavior. When you act like a rock star / high value male / alpha male people will begin to see you as one and treat you like one. When people begin to treat you like you are the top dog, you are the top dog. It has nothing to do with how you are born - it has everything to do with what you choose to make happen. Being an alpha male is an image not an attribute. The whole point of the MM is to learn how to cultivate this image and become an alpha male. Knowing I have the MM in my pocket I look at an HB10 and think to myself "this poor little lamb has no idea she is about to be devoured by a lion." When I approach with this attitude she is thinking "damn, this is a man's man right here - that's hot!"

I would think everyone who read Mystery's book would either understand this or have very poor reading comprehension. It's like a lot of posters missed the whole point of the book. I hope this helps.

[HBPornstar]

I look at an HB10 and think to myself "this poor little lamb has no idea she is about to be devoured by a lion."


I'm on my way out so I will write my full reply next time, but I have to ask this: Read what I just quoted you on. Are you serious? Really, I'm not being sarcastic. Do you really look at women this way? :confused:


WOW :(

I'm speechless.


HBPornstar

[A36DD4ME]

I'm on my way out so I will write my full reply next time, but I have to ask this: Read what I just quoted you on. Are you serious? Really, I'm not being sarcastic. Do you really look at women this way? :confused:


WOW :(

I'm speechless.


HBPornstar

With that level of confidence yes, and 100 times out of 100 women tell me how attractive it is. I don't expect you to understand it but I guarantee you respond to it whether you know it or not.

[Johnny Soporno]

Are you serious? Really, I'm not being sarcastic.

100 times out of 100 women tell me how attractive it is.

...listening to a woman's opinions on what women like is [/i]worse than useless[/I], it is harmful.


HAHAHAH! Clever! :rolleyes:


100% of women offer you their their opinion on your attractiveness, (which naturally you dismiss, since taking it it harmful, as you've pointed out?) but somehow that inspires you to continue on in the same fashion....

Seems to me that someone's reading comprehension isn't what he imagines it to be... ;)


Essentially, the way to be an alpha male is to be a rock star or to come off as being a rock star - fake it till you make it

Keep on faking it, kid. At least it's working on you... :rolleyes:

Johnny Soporno
Shaking His Head Incredulously

[A36DD4ME]

HATHAWAY! Clever! :roll eyes:


100% of women offer you their their opinion on your attractiveness, (which naturally you dismiss, since taking it it harmful, as you've pointed out?) but somehow that inspires you to continue on in the same fashion....

Seems to me that someone's reading comprehension isn't what he imagines it to be... ;)



Keep on faking it, kid. At least it's working on you... :rolleyes:

Johnny So porno
Shaking His Head Incredulously


Dude that's way weak. My analogy was meant to demonstrate how the MM and having tight game gives you confidence. I think both genders know that confidence is attractive to women and is in general an alpha male quality that can be cultivated. Hence, by practicing the techniques of the MM one can mold their self into an alpha male just as one who trains in the gym like he is Mr. Olympia can eventually become Mr. Olympia. Or one who gets out there and sells like he is the top dog salesman will become the top dog salesman. Ever hear the saying "dress for the job you want not the one you have." It's all the same concept - dream it and you will become it. The same is true for the MM - if you approach women as if you are successful and confident with women, you will be.

But listen, I came here to trade constructive information and tips to improve my game and help other improve theirs, not to get into silly arguments. Anyone who has read the MM book should know this stuff already as Mystery put quite a bit of emphasis on it.

Bottom line, I'm not going to respond to any more silly posts. I hope those reading this thread are picking up what I'm laying down.

[Johnny Soporno]

Dude that's way weak.

Sorry for having to call you out. I recognized that your dogmatic dedication to Erik's older work was keeping you from progressing, and wanted to help you , and the others reading this thread, not to forget to apply reason.

...confidence is attractive to women and is in general an alpha male quality that can be cultivated.

No one denies either aspect of that - I'm sure the aspect which tweaked HBPornstar etc was your idea that you look at women as your victims, as opposed to people who are lucky to be meeting you in the first place.

Hence, by practicing the techniques of the MM one can mold their self into an alpha male just as one who trains in the gym like he is Mr. Olympia can eventually become Mr. Olympia.

You're error here is that 'alpha male' is NOT a title, whereas Mr. Olympia is just that. Alpha male BEHAVIOR may be emulated, demonstrated, and alpha maleness suggested - but it doesn't actually change whether or not you're an alpha in your nature.

You'd do well to return to the OP and read all the posts in this thread, it's very enlightening.

Or one who gets out there and sells like he is the top dog salesman will become the top dog salesman.

Most dog sales are conducted directly by the puppy-farms, no? ;)
Seriously, though, what you are saying again is not analogous to confidence-building; if you DO sell more than anyone else, you ARE the best salesman, and THAT will shape your confidence - this is not merely 'fake it 'til you make it'.

If you approach women as if you are successful and confident with women, you will be.

Close! If you approach women as though you were successful with women, and confident with yourself, they will respond favorably, and you WILL become both successful with women, and confident in your abilities with women. :) That was the message Erik was putting forward in the MM book.


But listen, I came here to trade constructive information and tips to improve my game and help other improve theirs, not to get into silly arguments.

I hear you :) and hope you'll garner two vital things from this thread, aside from the appreciation of the distinction between natural alpha males, beta males, and postured-as-alpha betas: first, speaking to the forum as though your having read Erik's older work (and accepting it as Gospel) makes you authoritative won't get you a positive reception, and secondly that there are many things left for you to learn - many of them truly non-obvious, or even contradictory to your current mental frame.

Best of luck on here, and in your life!

Johnny Soporno
Lifestyle Guru

[SethAudere]

You're error here is that 'alpha male' is NOT a title, whereas Mr. Olympia is just that. Alpha male BEHAVIOR may be emulated, demonstrated, and alpha maleness suggested - but it doesn't actually change whether or not you're an alpha in your nature.

First: I really like your posts and i just enjoyed your videos (Seductive Resoning) some days ago. On this point we simply have different opinions. The people who had this tendency to not replicate and just care for the kids that other males made just died out long time ago. Of course this tendency was going along the bloodline. If you wouldn't be able to "become" this kind of alpha, only people with big jaws should be behaving in an alpha-way. The only difference is a change in their hormones. You can just notice natural behavioural change if someone is going to work out. Its that easy to become more of this alpha-male. What is it exactly you think natural-alpha and "unnatural-alpha" differs? You think every guy i see behaving as very alpha even if he hasn't a big jaw is an "unnatural-alpha"? Is it bad to be this kind of "unnatural-alpha"? Where is the difference?

[A36DD4ME]

This seems to be turning into the old nature Vs nurture debate and you seem to believe that some men are genetically predisposed to be alpha males or to show dominance over others. In fact there is a genetic condition called a double Y chromosome also known as the criminal gene. Men who carry an extra Y chromosome tend to be hyper aggressive and tend to have difficulty conducting themselves within the framework of society and often land in prison - hence the term criminal gene.

This demonstrates where you are going wrong. In the animal world or ancient times an alpha male is defined as the strongest and most aggressive. In modern society an alpha male is one who is best succeeds in utilizing the intellectual tools of society to gain wealth and status. Modern alpha males may be small, weak and passive and still be quite alpha. Would you consider Leonardo DiCaprio an alpha male, what about Bill Gates?

The largest determinant of wealth and success in America and in most countries is the wealth of one's parents. This demonstrates that people learn to be alpha and are raised to be alpha - they are not alpha from birth.

The traits that would need to be ascribed to men in today's society would by definition be far too complex to be simple genetic expressions. The jury is still out on certain more simple behaviors like aggression which you seem to be mistaking for being alpha. Some academics believe that these traits may be genetic but clearly aggression alone wouldn't make one an alpha male. It would more likely make one a redneck who gets drunk, beats his wife and winds up getting his butt kicked by the police.

No, being an alpha male is purely a matter of how we learn to get along in society, some are raised to have skills in this area while others need to teach themselves. But there is little question that the skill involved in being successful both socially and monetarily are skills that are learned and skills that can be cultivated.

In closing, do all of us a favor and don't assume that the only source of ones knowledge is Mystery's book. There happens to be a huge body of scholarly knowledge with regard to the nature Vs nurture debate as it has been going on for years. In fact, I wrote a research paper on the subject for a social psychology class - my professor was interested in the opinion of a molecular biology major. But if you believe there is an alpha male gene known to academia you are more than welcome to provide a source. As much as I admire Mystery's work I don't think having attended his workshop is going to be any kind of help here as this subject is already well established.

And now I must split because I've already spent more time on this subject than it is worth. Peace bro.

[HERQ]

"This demonstrates where you are going wrong. In the animal world or ancient times an alpha male is defined as the strongest and most aggressive. In modern society an alpha male is one who is best succeeds in utilizing the intellectual tools of society to gain wealth and status. Modern alpha males may be small, weak and passive and still be quite alpha. Would you consider Leonardo DiCaprio an alpha male, what about Bill Gates?"Quote from A36DD4ME

Sorry but I think your getting 'Success' and "Alpha' mixed up.And I dont think Johnny had it going wrong.He was just expressing differences in your viewpoints.
This is how I understood what an 'Alpha' was suppose to be.A person(Yes,male or female) who leads a social group via persona or status.Thats it.

SethAudere,we are not all decendants from Alphas.All Betas are not raising kids that are not theirs.I am not having a go at you as a person but think your wrong if this is what your implying.Correct me if I am wrong.

All in all what bugs me is guys trying to be 'by definnition' something only one guy in a social group CAN be.Im not saying not for you to exhibit behaviours such as confidence,leadership qualities,etc.But know there can be only one Alpha at any time in a social group.

[SethAudere]

SethAudere,we are not all decendants from Alphas.All Betas are not raising kids that are not theirs.I am not having a go at you as a person but think your wrong if this is what your implying.Correct me if I am wrong.

It don't say that only the leader had sex, but the leader had more sex. More sex = more spouses. The more spouses you have, the higher the chance that some of them will survive and continue replicating.

[Johnny Soporno]

More sex = more spouses. The more spouses you have, the higher the chance that some of them will survive and continue replicating.

In MY dictionary, I pluralize 'spouse' like 'mouse'...

In other words, I need a lot of SPICE in my life!

Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy

[SethAudere]

Sorry, english isn't my first language. I took the wrong word, i wanted to write "children" instead of "spouses".

[Agape]

Just a note here! I have a friend and he oozes Alpha. He has all the wrong things going for him. No Education. No Real Job. No Goals. No Future. He is addicted to drugs. Parties constantly and sells drugs for money. Sounds like a real winner huh?!!

But! He is fearless and Confident. Every single girl I have ever seen him with or he has dumped has pined for him back...and he has never been dumped that I know of...and why you might ask? Because every single guy who has tried to AMog him, cut him down or push his buttons...he stood up for himself. Second, the girls he was with, he always took care of them or threated under a bluff that he would cruifify anyone who hurt them and sometimes did. They felt so safe. For this reason, he also has a huge loyatly of equally followed friends who are guys and they always tiptoe around him..they even know it and he brags about it sometimes to see if they'll fight him. ALPHA.

ALPHA = FEARLESSNESS + CONFIDENCE

[rosencrantz]

ALPHA = FEARLESSNESS + CONFIDENCE

Education and having goals in life helps as well. :p