Mystery = Style?

[MrEsquire]

It's painfully obvious now that Mike Long is the same guy who did the marketing for Style's Annihilation Method. Mystery must have been introduced to him through Style and decided to piggyback off of the massive amount of money Style brought in for the Annihilation Method dvds (I believe those dvds were priced at $3,000+ each).

Their e-mail list is just one big marketing sham.

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Guys! Don't tell anyone the big secret! We are going to share
something so amazing that you will shed a tear! But right now
our laywers won't let us say anything! IT'S GONNA BE BIG!
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Then next thing you know we get a pdf in our email inboxes that is nothing more than a 34-page marketing ad for Mystery's Annihilation Method! Fucking ridiculous. (As a funny sidenote, notice how he throws out how he doesn't want to reveal the price yet? He just wants to build up hype first without the negative backlash of people balking at the huge price).

Is anyone else tired of this bullshit marketing scheme they have going and all its false promises?

[Charybdis]

I am NOT.

Probably Magnum Opus will contains a lot of infield pickup with explanation. Created by Mystery. So you say, this does not give you value? Or it will not worth the money?

There will be a 100% money back guarantee. How could this be more fair? You buy, and if you are not satisfied, ask for refund in x days.

I dont see false promises here. What are these false promises by the way? You will get a refund, if you think it was fake.

[Sentinelrv]

I'll post the same response I had in my thread...

I have no doubt that the product will be outstanding and full of great information that you can't get anywhere else, especially if it's 21 DVD's of current and up to date content! I definitely want to get it, but the thing is that I can't stand their way of marketing and advertising. These are great guys, but the advertising they do is horrible. It makes them seem so untrustworthy, like they're constantly lying to us with every single email. The stories they tell in them sound made up a lot of times too.

For example, why would they say Mystery is sad because he can't give everyone a bootcamp because they're so expensive, so instead they make this great product as a substitute and then tell us that significantly less than 1,000 people are actually going to be able to buy it. That makes it sound like the entire story was completely made up. It makes me pissed off, especially since I just made a triple payment on my bootcamp and I won't have $1,000 for another three or four weeks. Now if they release the product soon, I'm going to miss out because I don't have enough money on me right now. And that's assuming it is $1,000. I heard Style's Annihilation Method was $5,000, and that was smaller than this package.

[MrEsquire]

I'll post the same response I had in my thread...

I have no doubt that the product will be outstanding and full of great information that you can't get anywhere else, especially if it's 21 DVD's of current and up to date content! I definitely want to get it, but the thing is that I can't stand their way of marketing and advertising. These are great guys, but the advertising they do is horrible. It makes them seem so untrustworthy, like they're constantly lying to us with every single email. The stories they tell in them sound made up a lot of times too.

For example, why would they say Mystery is sad because he can't give everyone a bootcamp because they're so expensive, so instead they make this great product as a substitute and then tell us that significantly less than 1,000 people are actually going to be able to buy it. That makes it sound like the entire story was completely made up. It makes me pissed off, especially since I just made a triple payment on my bootcamp and I won't have $1,000 for another three or four weeks. Now if they release the product soon, I'm going to miss out because I don't have enough money on me right now. And that's assuming it is $1,000. I heard Style's Annihilation Method was $5,000, and that was smaller than this package.

That sums it up. It isn't the product I have a problem with. Most products in the PUA community are pure and utter crap. They all have the same information rehashed (with maybe a couple new buzzwords added in to make it seem original and groundbreaking). It's no coincidence that the majority of teachers who have products out there are former disciples of Mystery and that a lot of their methods are strikingly similar. This new Mystery product could potentially be the best product out there - dare I say one of the few that is actually worth the money?

I haven't seen the product, so I can't comment on it specifically. But, I can comment on the marketing. And the marketing is very analogous to Annihilation Method - which was the biggest rip-off the community has ever seen. Can VA at least give us some credit and treat us like we have an ounce of intelligence instead of using cheap marketing gimmicks?

[Sentinelrv]

Has anyone ever tried emailing the Venusian Arts service department at service@venusianarts.com and telling them about how their marketing is affecting their fans? I was thinking about doing this and listing a bunch of threads, including the couple up now and all the ones from the mass marketing of the Playboy Mansion bootcamp. I'm not sure if they check the forum that much to see the affect it's having on everyone. I wouldn't be doing this to yell at them about it, but to let them know that I don't want their customers to lose faith in them.......by showing examples of what their marketing is doing to us. I don't want to see this company go down just because of some stupid marketing that went too far.

[Alexkx3]

Can't agree with you more! I'm sure the product will be great but, if I wasn't already convinced by mm and I read one of these emails, I would stay miles away from it. It has Sham, Con and Hustle written all over it!
Ps who buys that bull that they only made a few hundred of em? And the videos of sarges were in order to get our feedback?! Cut the bull Mike Long and treat us with some respect!

[Dox]

Has anyone ever tried emailing the Venusian Arts service department at service@venusianarts.com and telling them about how their marketing is affecting their fans? I was thinking about doing this and listing a bunch of threads, including the couple up now and all the ones from the mass marketing of the Playboy Mansion bootcamp. I'm not sure if they check the forum that much to see the affect it's having on everyone. I wouldn't be doing this to yell at them about it, but to let them know that I don't want their customers to lose faith in them.......by showing examples of what their marketing is doing to us. I don't want to see this company go down just because of some stupid marketing that went too far.

I certainly think someone should bring this to light, it's plain ludicrous by this point. I used to see Matador or Lovedrop lurking the forums all the time, so at some point in time they were at least somewhat invested in the community, but I don't see it anymore...maybe their own community scared them off? I mean, come on guys - treat us like intelligent human beings - students even, not oversized wallets with a complex anatomy. That's all we really want from them, and I think we can all agree on that.

[Nine-Leaf Clover]

I'm really disappointed that VA thinks that the same tech that we use will work on us. We've seen past the Matrix already, guys. The past few emails that I've gotten from Mike Long are so fucking chock-full of false time constraints, multiple threads, and demonstrations of scarcity that I just had to roll my eyes and shake my head while I was reading them.

Give us some goddamn credit, guys.

[Equal]

Is anyone else tired of this bullshit marketing scheme they have going and all its false promises?

Not only am I tired of all this crap it has really driven me further OFFLINE. No one shares fun stuff anymore and that is sad. Eventually all the selling will implode. Just wait.

As for any new products you would be a MORON to buy them. They spend all day telling your routines and canned material is not needed and then they try and sell you NEW canned material. Come on guys. Go read the users guide the speed seduction web site - it is all you really need. Maybe spend a little on the first MM book and throw DD $20 for an ebook. From there all you need is a brain and BALLS to go out and do shit.

Equal

[Nine-Leaf Clover]

Agreed. All of the tech I use can be found for free on the interwebbings or in something Ross Jeffries wrote.

Thing is, the one thing that most guys need the most help with is the one thing that seems to get the least amount of attention: nonverbals. Mirroring and kino (and avoiding evil conversational threads of badness and no sex, such as politics, religion, and conspiracy theory) ALONE got me my first lay after I got into the game. No tech aside from body language changes. Everything I knew, I learned from the free layguide.

You can memorize every DHV routine in existence, but it won't do you shit if your delivery is fail. And THAT'S the kind of DVD that I would recommend, because the audio-visual medium is vastly better for conveying that than the written word. Visual demonstrations of good posture, roll-offs, body rocking, kino, mirroring, how and when to smile, body stance, hand gestures, tonality, nonverbal IOIs... DVD is good for that. I don't need a DVD to learn the Cube or the M3 progression.

Hell, I might actually buy a DVD that was nothing but how to do nonverbals. Assuming, of course, that it wasn't insultingly hyped as the OMG AWESOMEST THING EVAR AND WE ONLY MADE FOUR OF THEM SO ITS GOING TO BE LEIK FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS.

[mR. PotenTial]

Hahaha well said N-L C. :D

I happen to agree with most of what you and everyone else has been saying here.

Some good honest posts.

[Folk Theory]

im so sick of mike long saying "ive only got 5 minutes cos i gotta get back to my friends but i can share this with you"....who are you trying to kid with your FTC??

[phoenix]

Agreed. All of the tech I use can be found for free on the interwebbings or in something Ross Jeffries wrote.

Thing is, the one thing that most guys need the most help with is the one thing that seems to get the least amount of attention: nonverbals. Mirroring and kino (and avoiding evil conversational threads of badness and no sex, such as politics, religion, and conspiracy theory) ALONE got me my first lay after I got into the game. No tech aside from body language changes. Everything I knew, I learned from the free layguide.

You can memorize every DHV routine in existence, but it won't do you shit if your delivery is fail. And THAT'S the kind of DVD that I would recommend, because the audio-visual medium is vastly better for conveying that than the written word. Visual demonstrations of good posture, roll-offs, body rocking, kino, mirroring, how and when to smile, body stance, hand gestures, tonality, nonverbal IOIs... DVD is good for that. I don't need a DVD to learn the Cube or the M3 progression.

Hell, I might actually buy a DVD that was nothing but how to do nonverbals. Assuming, of course, that it wasn't insultingly hyped as the OMG AWESOMEST THING EVAR AND WE ONLY MADE FOUR OF THEM SO ITS GOING TO BE LEIK FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS.


Thats what we need.

[Couture]

Look at it from a business perspective here. You can´t blame them for using what works. Mike Long seems to be an effective sales copywriter (using industry standard techniques here) with a big list - there is no doubt in my mind these products will get sold. If no hype was generated then sales would suffer.

All the information we need is already out there from years and years of field testing thanks to those before us who have laid the foundation. This information is easily found online - its completely free. Your brain might perceive this information to be of less value because there is no 34 page long sales pitch which introduces you to it, but nonetheless it is in fact there for you to use.

If you are sick of getting hyped up emails there is a link at the end which allows you to be taken off the list - use it and stop griping like some kind of nagging housewife.

[coolguy]

Dudes with all the $$$$ you're dropping on these products you would probably move to Thailand and live like a rock god for years.

If I had a choice between sitting around with a bunch of guys at a boot camp or leasing a giant pad with hot tubs, pools, a personal attendant & chef, and sleeping with 30 women at the same time, uhhhh let's just say I wouldn't be giving money over for someone else to (probably) go do exactly that. I'm sure these guys are laughing al the way to the bank with your $$$$$.

[Equal]

NLC - you make a great point about BL and nonverb skills. Hell even verbal skills as to how you deliver stuff are critical. I think the best way to deal with this is to go out and try things. This is why I am SO critical of all the inner game jerk off posts on these boards, that is all well and good but unless you try it and do it you can't learn from reading. A good wing helps as well.

They would be better off selling infield videos, but those are tough to make and then their silly bootcamps would be out of business.

The best advice I can give is read the VAST amount of free stuff on the web and then go out.

Equal

[B-Rad]

I dont think you guys understand. I dont generally think Mystery's new product is ment for us (this is my first post here but have been an active member of rsd for a while). Its ment for all the new guys that have just joined his community and watched the VH1 show. That is where Mike Long's marketing is tailered to. People will buy it. Thats for sure.

[JekDaPUA]

Thats what we need.

Agreed. All of the tech I use can be found for free on the interwebbings or in something Ross Jeffries wrote.

Thing is, the one thing that most guys need the most help with is the one thing that seems to get the least amount of attention: nonverbals. Mirroring and kino (and avoiding evil conversational threads of badness and no sex, such as politics, religion, and conspiracy theory) ALONE got me my first lay after I got into the game. No tech aside from body language changes. Everything I knew, I learned from the free layguide.

You can memorize every DHV routine in existence, but it won't do you shit if your delivery is fail. And THAT'S the kind of DVD that I would recommend, because the audio-visual medium is vastly better for conveying that than the written word. Visual demonstrations of good posture, roll-offs, body rocking, kino, mirroring, how and when to smile, body stance, hand gestures, tonality, nonverbal IOIs... DVD is good for that. I don't need a DVD to learn the Cube or the M3 progression.

Hell, I might actually buy a DVD that was nothing but how to do nonverbals. Assuming, of course, that it wasn't insultingly hyped as the OMG AWESOMEST THING EVAR AND WE ONLY MADE FOUR OF THEM SO ITS GOING TO BE LEIK FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS.

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This I totally agree with

[Nutz]

I'll post the same response I had in my thread...

I have no doubt that the product will be outstanding and full of great information that you can't get anywhere else, especially if it's 21 DVD's of current and up to date content! I definitely want to get it, but the thing is that I can't stand their way of marketing and advertising. These are great guys, but the advertising they do is horrible. It makes them seem so untrustworthy, like they're constantly lying to us with every single email. The stories they tell in them sound made up a lot of times too.

For example, why would they say Mystery is sad because he can't give everyone a bootcamp because they're so expensive, so instead they make this great product as a substitute and then tell us that significantly less than 1,000 people are actually going to be able to buy it. That makes it sound like the entire story was completely made up. It makes me pissed off, especially since I just made a triple payment on my bootcamp and I won't have $1,000 for another three or four weeks. Now if they release the product soon, I'm going to miss out because I don't have enough money on me right now. And that's assuming it is $1,000. I heard Style's Annihilation Method was $5,000, and that was smaller than this package.

The best way I can describe the advertising is "seedy". It's barely a step above everyday spam.

[Nine-Leaf Clover]

NLC - you make a great point about BL and nonverb skills. Hell even verbal skills as to how you deliver stuff are critical.

I consider tonality and delivery (including pauses and such) to be nonverbal, because nonverbal = everything but the words themselves.

I think the best way to deal with this is to go out and try things.

It's kind of tricky if you don't know what you're doing wrong. Videotaping yourself in-field and watching what you're doing wrong will help, but that's not exactly easy to do.

This is why I am SO critical of all the inner game jerk off posts on these boards, that is all well and good but unless you try it and do it you can't learn from reading. A good wing helps as well.

My opinion on "Inner Game" (by the way, "inner game" to me is synonymous with "confidence"): it comes from success and can also come from lifestyle changes like getting in shape, successfully quitting smoking, etc. Success will get you inner game. Inner game will get you outer game. Outer game will get you success (all the inner game in the world won't do you any good if you don't project it; there aren't many Buddhist monks and whatnot that get laid like mad).

Even though success is the best way to get inner game, you still need the outer game to get your first few successes. Training wheels, if you will. If an AFC goes in field with nothing but a few routines and some body language knowledge and scores a makeout, his confidence will skyrocket. It'll be like, "holy shit, this is doable! And it wasn't even that hard!"

I've got nothing against inner game. But the idea of developing it to the exclusion of outer game, especially early on, is just goofy.

They would be better off selling infield videos, but those are tough to make and then their silly bootcamps would be out of business.

I don't know; there's nothing like a live bootcamp to help you with your sticking points and get yourself acclimated. I've never been to one, but I imagine that that's what they're best for. You'll get critiqued on stuff you didn't even know you were doing wrong.

The best advice I can give is read the VAST amount of free stuff on the web and then go out.

I've actually been trying to figure out what the best order to teach material in would be. My tentative list:

1. IOIs. Be able to see the field before you step onto it.
2. Opening. Open and eject a few dozen times to get comfortable with it.
3. BL, kino, transitioning from A2 to A3. What's your body doing during the interaction, and when can you start "hitting on" the girl? After the opening, go into natural conversation for a little bit before ejecting (or escalating, if you're getting the IOIs, and practice nonverbals. If nothing more than these three could get me laid, then dammit, it can get an RAFC a makeout. Inner game ++.

I might stick DHVs in between 2 and 3 there.

The main concerns that I have are:

*Start with something not-scary. We don't want to frighten the poor RAFCs off...
*...while minimizing KJing. Put 'em in field with at least some knowledge, but don't keep them in the seminar room too long. In order to absorb the stuff, you have to practice it.
*Teach the material in an order that will give quick (albeit limited) early success to help out the inner game and reduce fear of the field, both the motivate newbies to do better and prevent KJing.

Going out of your comfort zone is cool. Expanding your comfort zone is cooler. Baby steps.