Don't buy into the bullshit.

[The Real McCoy]

The Vh1 show revealed alot of the techniques you guys use to millions of people. Since most of you are here looking for a leg up, this is not a good thing - competition. Just look at the VH1 show, is it any suprise who won?

The various PUA's and pua website's keep telling you that nothing will change, the game will evolve, it all still works. The truth is, they tell you that, because you need to believe that in order for them to keep making money. They feed you the same bullshit everytime, just like when "The Game" first came out. If you believed anything else you wouldn't spend thousands of dollars on boot camps, and books filled with rehashed material.

When it was revealed a "Mystery Method" hardcover would be released those who had bought the Venusian Arts handbook online, were pissed that they spent $69 on the e-book when the same book in hard cover would cost less than $20. You couldn't even print the e-book and need a special program to open it supposedly so the material would get spread around the internet (I thought we wanted everyone to learn?). About the hardcover The MM people claimed "Oh no, it's not the same thing. The hardcopy is more of a dating manual, blah, blah," Ofcourse when it came out it was the same thing as the e-book.

How about Style and his "Annhilation Method" how much was that like 4 grand? for recycled MM. I truly feel sorry for the dupes that bought that shit.

I know there are plenty of people who aren't profiting from MM or PU material that will tell you the same bullshit about the game evolving, and the VH! show didn't change anything. Ofcourse they are going to say that. I really wants to admit the truth when the lie is so much easier to accept.

Here's the inconvenient truth. The VH1 show did set you back. It was not a good thing for all you aspiring PUA's. They only people it's good for is the same people that have continually lining there pockets with the MM gimmick.

MM is not the only method out there. There are a lot of good methods that aren't "mainstream".

I'm sure I'll be flamed and censored for this post as anyone who isn't minion here is singled out and destroyed.

[tragic_carpet_ride]

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[doobio]

i think he's too unoriginal to come up with his own material. why do that when you can be lazy and talk shit about Mystery on his own website?
:rolleyes:

When you get a show on VH1 too maybe we'll listen to you next time.

[tragic_carpet_ride]

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[The Real McCoy]

no troll here just saying what you don't want to believe.

I don't need to convince you of anything you don't already know. Like I said "the lie" is a wonderful thing.

I've never used "material". There are other methods that actually teach u to develop as a person as opposed to learning a script and lying. Yeah, let me tell you a lie about a fight outside or my imaginary friend with a jealous girlfriend.

[tragic_carpet_ride]

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[tragic_carpet_ride]

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[The Real McCoy]

Also -

If the world is coming to an end and Mysterys method doesnt work anymore (and never worked for regular people, as I think youre claiming), why has it worked for so many people, including me? Why does it keep working for me?

Explain that.

I never said it didn't work. But if it goes totally mainstream it will definitely be a lot less effective. Besides if you have a natural charisma and lack confidence anything that gives you confidence and allows you to be yourself will bring out your inner charisma. If you're a boring douche who memorizes a script, when the script is done where do you go when you have to be yourself?

You say it works for you, only you know if that's truly the case.

[The Real McCoy]

all of you insecure people automatically see this as me saying MM doesn't work


I never said it didn't work. But if it goes totally mainstream it will definitely be a lot less effective.

TRUTH

[doobio]

It already is mainstream.

TRUTH

[The Real McCoy]

It already is mainstream.

TRUTH

Yeah, OK. We'll see if it gets huge or fades away. Even if it does get huge, that doesn't matter. If you work on being genuine and developing natural charisma you should be ok.

Not that MM doesn't work, but it' structured nature and routines makes it vulnerable to saturation. Anyone that tells you anything different is lying to themselves or selling something.

[tragic_carpet_ride]

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[The Real McCoy]

True. Maybe if it gets popular enough, social interaction as we know it will change entirely to calibrate MM defense? Doubtful. Would be pretty amusing though. Then someone will have to write a new method/theory dealing with this new set of social norms and structures, and it goes on and on.

At one point, I bet direct game like "Whats your sign, baby?" maybe even have worked in the right context. That line in particular reminds me of a lot of the chick crack stuff people use know. Girls just got smart to this and saw through it, so men invented something new. (I think Style talked about this)

And so the cycle continues...If MM becomes too well known, you can bet 10 new PUAs will be waiting in the wings to take its place in the underground (as they are already trying to do). Im not worried, in summary.

I agree and I think you understand my point. There are alot of alternatives to the mainstream as we speak. The show just ended, not telling where things will go.

[tragic_carpet_ride]

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[Trig]

Oh my God! the sky is falling and humans are going to stop having sex!!!! Damn it VH1, you caused the end of the human race!

[Dox]

I use as much Swinggcat and TD (although hes close to Mystery) material as I do Mystery. Swinggcat, IMO, is probably the next big PUA who has a real structured method. Lots of crazy techniques that generate attraction; things no one else is doing. Did you guys hear his new cds? I think this is how I got my girlfriend (in an open relationship too!) a week ago.

In summary, Swinggcat has really upped his game. Why he isnt bigger, I dont know.

Swinggcat is a Frame monster...from what I've read and heard of his stuff, it's all about having an indestructable frame, and it's good stuff.

[The Real McCoy]

I haven't read too much of swingcat's stuff, since I've kind of relied on myself, but I've heard good things about him.

[Rooksmgook]

listen dude, i agree with some of what you said. but a show on vh1 is not gonna change human psychology.

and the mystery method tells u to come up with ur own openners and routines to avoid exactly what ur saying will happen.

look at professional surfing. 30 years ago it was boring, just boobs riding longboards..now you have people like slater and taj and irons and hamilton doing crazy new shit. 360 backside floaters, kick flips, back flips, helicopter tow-ins, riding 75 ft high waves, hydro foils, dynamite surfing, river rapid surfing, oil tanker wake surfing, with newer and crazier stuff comin out everyday.

now theres wake boarding and kite surfing and that shits evolving too.

when shit gets old, new creative people come up with new and creative ideas. then those get old and new ideas emerge. the process repeats.

its the way of the world dude. men will allways need to pick up women and men will always figure out a way to do it.

saying anything else is retarded

[VAcasanova]

MM is all about being interesting in a way that makes women attracted to you. DHV are to create attraction(whether conciously or subconciously), negs are to lower her guard. how can this be less effective? I guess a book and a tv show will stop people from being interesting, fun people. If I have discovered a way to play the guitar better than anyone and write a book about it and have my own tv show, will that stop people from learning and playing the guitar? Will it make guitar playing less effective or pleasing to the ear(target).

[Rooksmgook]

is should probably read all the posts before posting..haha

[John Candy]

Real McCoy ;)
I'm sorry, but i agree with most of his concepts. From when i discover "the game" i start with Mystery method, but in my evolution now i think that for an AFC is best to learn from BadBoy, Zan, Gunwitch (;) ) . Mystery's has lots of bullshits and gambits not necessary.
The funny thing is just an instructor of the Mystery Method is demonstrating that!!!
Matador Mayhem!!!! :D Kiss close in about few minutes!!!! AND THE PRINCIPLES OF MM WHERE ARE?????

[Rooksmgook]

when you kiss close that early its either fools mate or u blew ur chances of having sex with that girl. buyers remorse

[Dox]

Yeah, but it sure makes you look good in front of your PUA buddies :rolleyes:

[natedaman]

If you use your own original openers and routines the MM is imperceptible, you will be comfortable and confident and an interesting person. Attraction will build from that. The system works, always has and always will.

[ThePrince]

I dont post in forums much but i felt the need to get this out. Im new here. And the reason why I'm hear is the show. It woke me up a bit to discover that if those hopeless AFCs can be transformed than so can I. Its all about confidence in yourself and your ablilities. For true PUA's, the show will change nothing. They will simply evolve around the show. But if it can enlighten a few and make them see what they have been missing then so be it. Its fate and was bound to happen at some point. Nothing stays underground for long. :cool:

[Steel]

Human psychology won't change. Underlying stuff about MM will always work. So will improving confidence, inner game, grooming, etc.

If you don't use obvious manipulations (like destructive, unethical negging) no one will think you're using artificial manipulations.

If you don't lie (your DHV stories should be 100% true from your life) your stories will be real, defensible, and your facade will never collapse (I guess if all you want is a ONS then you won't know her long enough for her to see through you).

There are some posts about effective, ethical, genuine PU here:
http://www.venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3721

[snowwave83]

Rook you hit the nail on the head with the surfing metaphor. (By the way, Endless Summer 2 and Step Into Liquid showcase some of those).

Thousands of years of human psychology can't and won't change in a few months due to a pop culture reality show.

I am getting my Masters in psychology so I have a tiny bit of knowledge on psychology, humans will continue to act close to the matter they have been for decades, centuries and any change will be minute.

[Girl_in_the_Room]

Rook you hit the nail on the head with the surfing metaphor. (By the way, Endless Summer 2 and Step Into Liquid showcase some of those).

Thousands of years of human psychology can't and won't change in a few months due to a pop culture reality show.

I am getting my Masters in psychology so I have a tiny bit of knowledge on psychology, humans will continue to act close to the matter they have been for decades, centuries and any change will be minute.



What is always of interest to me is how our social issues are so integrated, sometimes automatic, that individually, it is truly difficult to take a step back and objectively deconstruct all of the elements that make up the big picture. So if something isn't working in our lives anywhere, it's not always easy to "see" what needs to be changed in order to get the results we want.

Human nature, psychology, our social conditions all are what they are. I suspect some of the outright hostilities to MM stems from a variety of impulses, some of which may be taking for granted some of these ingrained, historical realities.

To me, the Vh1 program served to connect the dots. To bring information together in a single place, create a focus and break things down into the smaller components so it's easier to learn what all the pieces are. Many people take so much for granted, they scoff at stuff like this as merely stating the obvious.

If you are living a paradigm that doesn't work but can't identify why or get suggestions on what to do to correct it, you'll struggle. You may figure it out on your own, eventually research and stumble across random information. But if Mystery and Co. can present the cumulative information in an accessible way, it saves you from reinventing the wheel.

Mystery didn't invent human nature. He's just making an effort to observe and understand it in his own way. You still have to bring yourself to the party.

[snowwave83]

What is always of interest to me is how our social issues are so integrated, sometimes automatic, that individually, it is truly difficult to take a step back and objectively deconstruct all of the elements that make up the big picture. So if something isn't working in our lives anywhere, it's not always easy to "see" what needs to be changed in order to get the results we want.

Human nature, psychology, our social conditions all are what they are. I suspect some of the outright hostilities to MM stems from a variety of impulses, some of which may be taking for granted some of these ingrained, historical realities.

To me, the Vh1 program served to connect the dots. To bring information together in a single place, create a focus and break things down into the smaller components so it's easier to learn what all the pieces are. Many people take so much for granted, they scoff at stuff like this as merely stating the obvious.

If you are living a paradigm that doesn't work but can't identify why or get suggestions on what to do to correct it, you'll struggle. You may figure it out on your own, eventually research and stumble across random information. But if Mystery and Co. can present the cumulative information in an accessible way, it saves you from reinventing the wheel.

Mystery didn't invent human nature. He's just making an effort to observe and understand it in his own way. You still have to bring yourself to the party.


Couldn't have said it better myself.

[noblepaladin]

Real McCoy ;)
I'm sorry, but i agree with most of his concepts. From when i discover "the game" i start with Mystery method, but in my evolution now i think that for an AFC is best to learn from BadBoy, Zan, Gunwitch (;) ) . Mystery's has lots of bullshits and gambits not necessary.
The funny thing is just an instructor of the Mystery Method is demonstrating that!!!
Matador Mayhem!!!! :D Kiss close in about few minutes!!!! AND THE PRINCIPLES OF MM WHERE ARE?????

The principles of MM still hold. For example, the indirect opener is used to start a conversation without showing neediness. If Brad Pitt approaches a set, he doesn't need an indirect opener. Why? Cause he is Brad Pitt. Nobody thinks that Brad Pitt is needy. Brad Pitt doesn't need to do DHVs either, just his looks, fashion, and the fact that everybody recognizes him is DHV enough. He basically does all the A phases by just stepping into a room. But the fact that he needed to be percieved as non-needy, as non-threatening, as the leader of men, etc still holds true. It's just that Brad Pitt can do it in three seconds while other guys need 20 minutes. Matador is one of those cool guys who can do all that very quickly. From the VH1 show, he looks the coolest out of everybody, just by how he looks, dresses, and his body language.

So the theories of MM still holds. The routines and gambits are all suppose to be optional. Ex: If a girl is giving you that puppy dog "fuck me" look, you don't go up to her and say "Hey guys, let me get a female opinion, I'm here with my friends and I need to go in a minute..." and then start negging her and talking to her friend. However, some newbies following MM will do this (and then wonder wtf went wrong when the girl runs away crying cause she was negged). Somehow you have already accomplished all the initial phases and you can continue after that. MM suppose to be a guideline. The theory suppose to give you some understanding. None of it should be absolute.

I read on some other PUA sites that different methods may work better for you. For example, MM seems to work best for engineers or scientists, for people who need logical explanations such as IF x THEN DO y. This is not a natural thinking process for some people. For these people, it may be easier to do one of the other methods.

Personally, I loved learning the theory of MM as much as how to play the game. I've successfully applied some of it to other aspects of my life. Many of the tactics can be applied to job searching (I'm graduating in June so I am job hunting now) and other aspects of interaction too (I know a lot of people have made connections between MM and sales tactics).

[Premiere]

You're just mad because you haven't been getting any pussy lol.

[mR. PotenTial]

The principles of MM still hold. For example, the indirect opener is used to start a conversation without showing neediness. If Brad Pitt approaches a set, he doesn't need an indirect opener. Why? Cause he is Brad Pitt. Nobody thinks that Brad Pitt is needy. Brad Pitt doesn't need to do DHVs either, just his looks, fashion, and the fact that everybody recognizes him is DHV enough. He basically does all the A phases by just stepping into a room. But the fact that he needed to be percieved as non-needy, as non-threatening, as the leader of men, etc still holds true. It's just that Brad Pitt can do it in three seconds while other guys need 20 minutes. Matador is one of those cool guys who can do all that very quickly. From the VH1 show, he looks the coolest out of everybody, just by how he looks, dresses, and his body language.

So the theories of MM still holds. The routines and gambits are all suppose to be optional. Ex: If a girl is giving you that puppy dog "fuck me" look, you don't go up to her and say "Hey guys, let me get a female opinion, I'm here with my friends and I need to go in a minute..." and then start negging her and talking to her friend. However, some newbies following MM will do this (and then wonder wtf went wrong when the girl runs away crying cause she was negged). Somehow you have already accomplished all the initial phases and you can continue after that. MM suppose to be a guideline. The theory suppose to give you some understanding. None of it should be absolute.


Funny, TRUE and great post dude! :D

[strife]

The principles of MM still hold. For example, the indirect opener is used to start a conversation without showing neediness. If Brad Pitt approaches a set, he doesn't need an indirect opener. Why? Cause he is Brad Pitt. Nobody thinks that Brad Pitt is needy. Brad Pitt doesn't need to do DHVs either, just his looks, fashion, and the fact that everybody recognizes him is DHV enough. He basically does all the A phases by just stepping into a room. But the fact that he needed to be percieved as non-needy, as non-threatening, as the leader of men, etc still holds true. It's just that Brad Pitt can do it in three seconds while other guys need 20 minutes. Matador is one of those cool guys who can do all that very quickly. From the VH1 show, he looks the coolest out of everybody, just by how he looks, dresses, and his body language.

So the theories of MM still holds. The routines and gambits are all suppose to be optional. Ex: If a girl is giving you that puppy dog "fuck me" look, you don't go up to her and say "Hey guys, let me get a female opinion, I'm here with my friends and I need to go in a minute..." and then start negging her and talking to her friend. However, some newbies following MM will do this (and then wonder wtf went wrong when the girl runs away crying cause she was negged). Somehow you have already accomplished all the initial phases and you can continue after that. MM suppose to be a guideline. The theory suppose to give you some understanding. None of it should be absolute.


nuff' said!

[Inferno]

The first post has one good point and that the stuff revealed on Vh1 like lines and other specifics like the PUA spin but the MM will always work in theory. The only way the MM won't work is if you changed the switches for attraction in every woman in America. Plus hes assuming that the majority if women have watched this show which i know is not true by a long shot.

[coolguy]

There is trend with PUAs, they tend to release some really great ideas for a while, and then they sort of tap out and just make subtle refinements or new insights at a much slower pace. Mystery has vigerously added to our knowledge for many, many years. Only the future will tell, but I think his output might be considerably lower in the coming years (though not to say any less important, what he has in his head could be more refined and explained to everyone's benefit).

Now, we're starting to see lame marketing, more hype, more bs, and this also is a trend with PUAs. Just look at David D, PU101, etc. There's a new product every week that "we must have". There is already so much information out there it's not even funny, no one human could possibly field test & internalize all the useful information available in one lifetime. To me, the only "products" that are really needed at this point are ones which clear up points of confusion (too much meaning is lost in words) and demonstrate useage.

In the end, the philosophy is more important than the content... which is something that transcends exposure and paranoid delusions that no one will get laid ever again.

[Lewclan]

I want to see just how many times this guy has gotten busted. I have been out and using th EXACT routines on sets. NOTHING has happened. If they say, "hey are you like a pua on that show?" Then you just respond... "what? you're a pua? Get away!" If youre fun and congruent than she will completely forget it. GIRLS go out all covered in beautiful clothes and make-up TO MEET guys. They could easily stay home at each other's place and hang out but no! Girls are not going to sit home, watch the show, copy down every line, and try to sniff out the pua's.

Even if they did... now what? OK LETS GIVE UP GUYS. In the end, what do you have to lose? NOTHING. This guy should be out there in the field but instead he stays up all night thinking of the worst case scenarios THAT NEVER ACTUALLY HAPPEN.

[ReallyPatheticFatSlob]

There is trend with PUAs, they tend to release some really great ideas for a while, and then they sort of tap out and just make subtle refinements or new insights at a much slower pace. Mystery has vigerously added to our knowledge for many, many years. Only the future will tell, but I think his output might be considerably lower in the coming years (though not to say any less important, what he has in his head could be more refined and explained to everyone's benefit).

Now, we're starting to see lame marketing, more hype, more bs, and this also is a trend with PUAs. Just look at David D, PU101, etc. There's a new product every week that "we must have". There is already so much information out there it's not even funny, no one human could possibly field test & internalize all the useful information available in one lifetime. To me, the only "products" that are really needed at this point are ones which clear up points of confusion (too much meaning is lost in words) and demonstrate useage.

In the end, the philosophy is more important than the content... which is something that transcends exposure and paranoid delusions that no one will get laid ever again.

A trend amongst humanity, it's called the age-genius curve.

Read this page, especially number 7, http://www.psychologytoday.com/rss/pto-20070622-000002.html

[j_dub]

This sounds like troll bait, but I think he's got a point, and it's not just about canned material. I just posted the details in another thread but I got completely busted tonight on an opinion opener that's not only not canned but is 100% true.

I do believe the Mystery Method. I worked in a meat market while I was going to college and I recognize tactics from VAH being used, and working.

But we're fooling ourselves if we think we haven't been exposed to some extent.

[trick]

MM is like the wheel that cavemen invented and they couldn't improve on it. Think about other PUAs, they still open, attract, qualify, comfort, sex. I don't think it's going to change much. No one is going to notice you using an opener if you're opening the right way. The method, done properly, is almost perfect.

[CrazyWilly]

MM is like the wheel that cavemen invented and they couldn't improve on it. Think about other PUAs, they still open, attract, qualify, comfort, sex. I don't think it's going to change much. No one is going to notice you using an opener if you're opening the right way. The method, done properly, is almost perfect.

Bad news, are tanks and other tracked vehicles an improvement over the wheel? How about hovercrafts, airplanes and other alternatives to the simple 4 wheeled cart...

Anyway, once the next method which improves dramatically over the MM comes out we'll look back and wonder what we were thinking. Its a paradigm shift and they happen every so often. And when they do, you can't imagine thinking anything else.

The only way for a theory or method to last forever is to be so general that it says nothing useful. Example: all things have energy. I'm trying to make a statement that is actually true. Examples of ones that aren't true: All things contain electrons, protons and/or neutrons (not true, a photon is a thing). All things take up space (black holes become interesting in this sense). Anyway, since the MM is useful, something else will eventually happen.

[MrRabbit]

all of you insecure people automatically see this as me saying MM doesn't work


I never said it didn't work. But if it goes totally mainstream it will definitely be a lot less effective.

TRUTH

This is the only theory I know of based on evolutionary biology. If you get laid, most likely you used some or all of it with, or without knowing it. M.I.T does not let people with douche bag tactics speak at their school. Girls aren't logical enough to see it coming, and they aren't going to spend months trying to figure out how guys are trying to get into their pants, after all GIRLS WANT YOU TO GET INTO THEIR PANTS SO BAD THEY CAN'T STAND IT, AND IF YOU CAN TAKE THEM ON THE RIDE THEY WANT, THEY'LL BUY A TICKET WITH GREAT EXCITEMENT!! Part of the MM is to be unpredictable anyway. I'd like to see an HB 10 model try to see if a guys randomness fits into the M3 model, ha ha, good luck HB10! Physics professors get fucked all the time in their theories due to randomness in equations...sorry HB10, your not going to figure it out, and Im gonna bone ya :)

[Insomniac]

I never said it didn't work. But if it goes totally mainstream it will definitely be a lot less effective.

Thank you Mr. Obvious

Well to make a point here. Lets consider if the highest rated show had 1.8 mil....and considering they're not reairing shows anymore. Considering about 1 in 300 people in America actually has seen the show. Of those 300 that did about 80-85% were men. that means maybe 1 in 1000 girls you talk to will have seen the show. And really do you think they understand at all how MM works? of the guys that watched it the 85% majority they're all AFC's who won't understand anything but how to copy an opener. Thats it. I'm not threatened by 1 or 2 guys that go around asking girls when they floss are you?

[DVD]

Yeah try Sarging out here in Oakland and lets see how far you get.;)

[Exotic[Love]]

I know there are plenty of people who aren't profiting from MM or PU material that will tell you the same bullshit about the game evolving

Im one of the people who arent profitting fra mm or any other pu material.
I wasted 40 $ on MM Method. 1000 $ (Thats about 6000 kr and is alot of money) on some fucking seminar boot camp in sweden.

Again stupid me 4000 kr bootcamp in Norway. Still i still sucks at getting women. Wonder why?

And stupid me. These that held the bootcamps was not A mystery method instructor. But i will never pay for a bootcamp again that i will not benefit from.

Its all about money these days. They learn you nothing for free

[Scion's Requiem]

Look, Mystery Method and the PUA community have been duped before, in books and TV shows (CSI, DR PHIL, FOX NEWS) and few women or competing men have ever been the wiser. They think "well, that would never work on me" laugh, and fall prey just like they always have. MM is always evolving because Social Dynamics are. Because they are (gasp) DYNAMIC.

[checkers]

Nice to know people are bumping old threads =-)

Social evolution happens because people evolve. Social norms change, Taboos change, and people change. IT happens. Anyone who says people don't change are idiotic. Do you think any of the matierial we use today, would work in the 60s, 30s, 1800s? Chances are, it wouldn't.

As social norms change, so will the way men get snatch.

[Russianstar]

i only read the startinf post and it really pissed me off!! DUDE!! Mystery, Style, ALL THE MASTERS could go on life TV and read out every name on this forum and tell all the women in the world never to date or fuck these guys.. and it still would do almost no harm in the LONG TERM!! Don't you see, the attraction switches are the same, if u can trigger them.. nothing should matter

[Intrigue12]

I agree with Russianstar, mystery's method is an adaptation to our current social situation as human beings and the basic theories of mystery method still hold true that attractive women are hit on A LOT, they are usually hit on by either jerks or nice guys, they all have the same basic attraction switches(though not the) same prefrences ,that if you act confident and hit all these switches your in. Even If the social situation changes all you need to do is change your game to meet the new situation and it still works! Finally the reason why I think mystery will out last many other guru's in the pua world is that you can use many other PUA methods or technology like Ross Jefferies adapted nlp or DeAngelo's cocky funny and incorperate them into your game.

adapt, overcome and happy hunting gentlemen.

[Tucker]

What's wrong with Pick Up going mainstream? My life has become far richer since I was introduced and I've worked to bring it into the lives of my good friends that have the same troubles I once did. Why would you want to hide something that has so much to offer to so many?

You remind me of that guy that loves a band until they get their first record deal and "sell out." Going from fan to hater in a heartbeat.

[Charisma PUA]

Come on 'The Real Mc Coy'.

Do you honestly have nothing better to do, than flame a method?

'MM has gone multi-media'. And thank god it has! I wouldn't have been pursuing this life style if that wasn't the case. I still be at home, nerding it up with dungeons and dragons. And the shows are tasteful and fun to watch - you can really connect with the AFCs on that show. Doesn't mean its Armageddon!

The MM has gone a long way since 2 years ago, I will admit that. But I think you're a little confused what the Mystery Method really is. You haven't attended a bootcamp - and from what I can tell, you don't see the value in it to spend 4 grand on (i did, but that's me).

But let me elaborate on one thing. The MM isn't about handing AFCs canned phrases and materials. It's about understanding the social concepts and patterns in social interactions. You can use your own routines and stories. Once you know something works, you're bound to do it again - whether you're conscious of it or not.

But allow me to demonstrate and example why the material doesn't matter.

A1 - open. Do you need a canned opener?

Course not! It helps if you're suffering from AA; so at least that way when you do approach within the first 3 seconds, you have something to say.

A2 - f2m attraction. Simply giving the illusion of chase. You can do this any way you like. Turns out Negs work really well. They happen in real life - have you ever actually just watched an interaction from the side and see how the guys who 'get it' actually act around women? You'd see that negs aren't new. We're just more aware of them.

and so on....a3, c1, c2...etc. (all normal stages when interacting with someone. You go for pizza, you hit the mall...blah blah blah...than sex.)

If you think outside the box for three seconds and stop thinking about the 'material' and more on the 'method' and its patterns, you come to realize that the MM can't be ruined by a simple tv show. Its normal social interaction.

So - do yourself a favor. Stop posting threads that bash the Venusian Arts and its evil 'voodoo' tactics to expand. Give the method a little more thought.

If you don't - that's cool too. Take another method - its great you're using other material. I encourage that. At least you're improving.

Think about it.

-Charisma

[Charisma PUA]

;87382']Im one of the people who arent profitting fra mm or any other pu material.
I wasted 40 $ on MM Method. 1000 $ (Thats about 6000 kr and is alot of money) on some fucking seminar boot camp in sweden.

Again stupid me 4000 kr bootcamp in Norway. Still i still sucks at getting women. Wonder why?

And stupid me. These that held the bootcamps was not A mystery method instructor. But i will never pay for a bootcamp again that i will not benefit from.

Its all about money these days. They learn you nothing for free

Once again - bootcamps are not magic pills that make you spontaneously good with women.

You are shown a door, a glance to a lifestyle you can pursue. But you have to be willing to open and crash and burn a lot of sets. The best successes come from failures. If you don't find it in yourself to approach and need someone to push you to do it - maybe you should look in improving you're inner game.

Otherwise, you should be out in the field practicing over and over again. Just cause you used one gambit, and it didn't work, doesn't mean that the shop was a waste. You have to learn to use the gambit in the right moment, the right tone, the right tempo for speech, and combine it with your body language. Fine tune it. That is the purpose of a bootcamp. To show what you're doing wrong, so you can improve. And arm you with a few tricks here and there ;)

If you didn't hit the field on those bootcamps - than ya, you missed out, and you didn't get your money's worth.

- Charisma

[Sway]

Come on 'The Real Mc Coy'.

Do you honestly have nothing better to do, than flame a method?


He's clearly not knocking the method, something that he's already reiterated several times in this thread. He's knocking the marketing practices used by the people who "created" the methods. I happen to agree with him on that point

Also, I think his point about saturation of a method lowering the effectiveness of that method is a good one, though he was a bit sloppy in his explanation of it. Nothing kills a seduction faster than knowing the minutae of the steps involved.

Opinion openers and false time constraints are easy to spot. As soon as anyone familiar with the material (its mainstream now) hears that, they know a pickup has started.. This is a complete disaster to the concept of indirect game. He has no choice but to go direct at that point, and run some frame control game.

Most new guys are not going to have the ability to deal with that, so opinion openers and FTC are not an option for them.That would never have happened in 2003. It does now. So that's one obvious change people have to make.

Last time I checked Mystery and Style were still teaching opinion openers, as part of an indirect method. Why? What contingencies do they teach new students for when they get caught out?

Remember: Once you've been caught using PUA material on a set, there's only a few ways you can save it without going direct. I'd be interested in knowing how Mystery or Style can teach maintaining A1 or A2 without going direct. Traditionally A3 and C1 is where the indirect\direct transition takes place.

[Dwight44]

I have to disagree about getting called out. Use your OWN openers. I've been called our a total of 3 times and hooked up with all 3 girls...its not that big of a deal if you get called out, it really isnt


He's clearly not knocking the method, something that he's already reiterated several times in this thread. He's knocking the marketing practices used by the people who "created" the methods. I happen to agree with him on that point

Also, I think his point about saturation of a method lowering the effectiveness of that method is a good one, though he was a bit sloppy in his explanation of it. Nothing kills a seduction faster than knowing the minutae of the steps involved.

Opinion openers and false time constraints are easy to spot. As soon as anyone familiar with the material (its mainstream now) hears that, they know a pickup has started.. This is a complete disaster to the concept of indirect game. He has no choice but to go direct at that point, and run some frame control game.

Most new guys are not going to have the ability to deal with that, so opinion openers and FTC are not an option for them.That would never have happened in 2003. It does now. So that's one obvious change people have to make.

Last time I checked Mystery and Style were still teaching opinion openers, as part of an indirect method. Why? What contingencies do they teach new students for when they get caught out?

Remember: Once you've been caught using PUA material on a set, there's only a few ways you can save it without going direct. I'd be interested in knowing how Mystery or Style can teach maintaining A1 or A2 without going direct. Traditionally A3 and C1 is where the indirect\direct transition takes place.

[-TruTh-]

Getting called out isn't a big deal... its a Megna Shit Test MST a strong frame easily dislodges this. -- TruTh