Turning Friends into Girlfriends

[chuyerik]

I know I've posted quite frequently, but I believe they are worthwhile posts.

One final post for now... I appreciate your cooperation.

How do you turn friends into girlfriends?

I know the MM said to represent yourself after and extended period of time as a guy with the social value that she wants, etc. What else is required though? Is that it? Just wait for a while and follow normal procedures?

Thanks people

[razletazle]

i agree im also in this situation. ne suggestions?

[Oregon]

Go out and have success with other women. Maybe it'll develop jealousy. Honestly, don't develop one-itis and go and meet some new girls. It's easier than turning friends into girlfriends. And probably better for your life long term regardless.

[Cedar]

How do you turn friends into girlfriends?


You don't.

Obsessing about a girl you know will prevent you from meeting new girls, improving, and getting success. I can hit happy hour tonight and get some numbers, maybe an instant date and SNL. I can do that most any night.

Why would I care about the hottie in my office when I have infinite options outside the office?

Toss off your past and focus on your future.

[Johnny Soporno]

http://www.venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=981

This is a FANTASTICALLY simple and beautifully-effective way to transition a genuine female friend into a playmate, or potentially more.

I have slept with basically ALL my female friends (and still sleep with most of them from time-to-time) and they number in the hundreds. Friendships with women are FAR easier to maintain than friendships with men, because they require remarkably-less time-investment.

It tends to be important, I find, to 'get the sex out of the way' (a la 'When Harry Met Sally') if a truly significant and enduring friendship is to be established.

Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy

[chuyerik]

http://www.venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=981

This is a FANTASTICALLY simple and beautifully-effective way to transition a genuine female friend into a playmate, or potentially more.

I have slept with basically ALL my female friends (and still sleep with most of them from time-to-time) and they number in the hundreds. Friendships with women are FAR easier to maintain than friendships with men, because they require remarkably-less time-investment.

It tends to be important, I find, to 'get the sex out of the way' (a la 'When Harry Met Sally') if a truly significant and enduring friendship is to be established.

Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy

I appreciate your response very much, Johnny. However, I don't believe I made my self too clear - I'm not interested in exploring how to create "friends with benefits," but rather, girlfriends. The sex is out of the question (momentarily). I am referring to getting out of the dreaded "friendship zone" and actually getting your female friend(s) genuinely attracted to and romantically interested in you. I know that there's a chapter that covers this in the Magic Bullets book but I haven't had the opportunity to purchase it. What's the game plan for this case?

[Cedar]

http://www.venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=981

This is a FANTASTICALLY simple and beautifully-effective way to transition a genuine female friend into a playmate, or potentially more.


Effective only if you have confidence and skill. Which noone will develop if they're obsessing over that once girl from their past.

[JeM]

I'd tend to agree with Oregon and Cedar. Move on. Meet other, new people and see how things go with them. Odds are, you'll be perfectly satisfied with that. And either way, this will likely show your friend that you're high value - and potentially create some jealousy and interest.

If you're absolutely hooked on this girl - from my experience, what has been mentioned in the posts above works to a degree. Before I got into pick-up, there was a friend of mine that I became interested in (we had been friends for quite a while beforehand too) - and so being my AFC self, simply came out and told her so. She rejected me pretty much outright, but let me down easy since we were friends. I let go and moved on, we remained friends - and I became interested in someone new, who actually eventually became a girlfriend. But before that happened, when I look back on it with a new perspective now - when I was first seeing this other girl, my friend would ask a bunch of questions about her, and it seemed like she almost had some regret/jealousy. It's the whole idea of a girl wanting to work for what she gets - it can't be easy, or she'll get bored. If it is something she can't get, or thinks she can't get, she'll want it more - or at the very least, become interested.

I'd still recommend letting her go though. And exploring other options... one-itis = bad.


Trance

[sigma]

I appreciate your response very much, Johnny. However, I don't believe I made my self too clear - I'm not interested in exploring how to create "friends with benefits," but rather, girlfriends. The sex is out of the question (momentarily). I am referring to getting out of the dreaded "friendship zone" and actually getting your female friend(s) genuinely attracted to and romantically interested in you. I know that there's a chapter that covers this in the Magic Bullets book but I haven't had the opportunity to purchase it. What's the game plan for this case?


I'm not clear what your asking then?

You don't want casual open sex with female friends of yours?? Because one of the REQUIREMENTS for this is a real and genuine friendship, which you have man!

you want to get out of the friends zone and turn them into monagamous girlfriends ??

please clarify before I could possibly give ANY advice

[Johnny Soporno]

I appreciate your response very much, Johnny. However, I don't believe I made my self too clear - I'm not interested in exploring how to create "friends with benefits," but rather, girlfriends.


Ok, I'm supposing we must both be misunderstanding one another - because I don't know where "friends with benefits" came into our discussion?


"This is a FANTASTICALLY simple and beautifully-effective way to transition a genuine female friend into a playmate, or potentially more."

There is no reason why you can't establish a sexually-playful relationship with a female friend, and then transition it to a more substantial/formal one once you've begun fucking, if that's what you're after? Consider it an end-run. :)


I am referring to getting out of the dreaded "friendship zone" and actually getting your female friend(s) genuinely attracted to and romantically interested in you.

Perhaps what you want to know is how to 'turn-back the clock' and undo the friendship/rapport generation you've already developed, so that you abandon the friendship in favor of 'reestablishing yourself as sexy' and getting another chance to gain the attention of your female friends?

If you're looking for appropriate advice on that, consider Ceder's initial comments authoritative. (ie, don't bother)

Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy

[Johnny Soporno]

Effective only if you have confidence and skill.

I'm sorry, Cedar, but I don't know that we're talking about the same thing at all? Confidence and skill?

My 'Converting Girl Friends to Girlfriends' requires absolutely NO SKILL or 'Game' at all. ZERO! Nada.

What is DOES require is the courage to be honest and sincere, the ability to offer 'non-judgmental acceptance', and the enlightenment of recognizing that women have every right to choose with whom they have sex, without fear of negative judgments or reputation.

Please go check the link (it's in my Sig) and let me know if there's still a disconnect between us?

Johnny Soporno
(I receive a half-dozen new 'thank you notes' a day from guys world-wide , of all ages, who have successfully transitioned from 'Friendzone' to 'Playmate' or 'Boyfriend' since I first posted this model)

[chuyerik]

I'm not clear what your asking then?

You don't want casual open sex with female friends of yours?? Because one of the REQUIREMENTS for this is a real and genuine friendship, which you have man!

you want to get out of the friends zone and turn them into monagamous girlfriends ??

please clarify before I could possibly give ANY advice




That's correct - I'm not interested in having sex with a female friend of mine (her name is Lizzy... "female friend" and all this anonymity will wear out quickly, I know lol). My reasons are my own and go into religion, morals, and values, so I'd appreciate it if we didn't discuss that part. But, as you said, yes I do have a real and genuine friendship with her. I do want to get out of the friendship zone (if I must) and turn her into a... well, yes, a single girlfriend. That is exactly what I'm looking for. Perhaps it seems boring or awkward, but in my opinion that is the best form of relationship. The idea is that I became close to Lizzy and became emotionally attached to her and she and I are close, but I'd like something more than a friendship whereas I don't believe she has considered it seriously yet. I know it pretty much IS one-itis, but I'm going into the Venusian Arts to expand my options now, while I will only be able to see Lizzy in person until I have become at least adequately efficient at the Venusian Arts (calibrated). I might change my mind by then, but the idea is that I have gotten to know her well enough to know that she is in fact a great catch and has much more than looks going for her, which is why I am even bothering pursuing this. She is a future option, basically.

[chuyerik]

Ok, I'm supposing we must both be misunderstanding one another - because I don't know where "friends with benefits" came into our discussion?



There is no reason why you can't establish a sexually-playful relationship with a female friend, and then transition it to a more substantial/formal one once you've begun fucking, if that's what you're after? Consider it an end-run. :)




Perhaps what you want to know is how to 'turn-back the clock' and undo the friendship/rapport generation you've already developed, so that you abandon the friendship in favor of 'reestablishing yourself as sexy' and getting another chance to gain the attention of your female friends?

If you're looking for appropriate advice on that, consider Ceder's initial comments authoritative. (ie, don't bother)

Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy


My definition of "friends with benefits" is basically friends with whom you have sexual activity without the commitment of an actual "official" relationship. I'm not looking for this form of relationship (friend with benefits), but rather an "official relationship" - boyfriend-girlfriend deal, if you will. Therefore, your advice would be more valuable for someone who sought to make a friend into a friend with benefits. I, however, am seeking for a committed relationship. Sex, in my case, will come after the commitment - not before.

I don't want to "turn-back the clock" and undo the friendship/rapport generation I've already established, but rather I'd like to add the passion to the friendship (isn't being in love and/or having a girlfriend basically friendship+passion?). So I don't want her to see me as only a friend, but rather as something more. She left from UT and went back to my hometown so I don't have the chance to see her, which I think is good, nor do I talk to her. I'm thinking of simply waiting to talk to her in person or at least very little distance communication (AIM), and represent myself after a few months and go through with the MM as normal (look at MM pages 59-60). That's the plan right now, but I'd like to know if there's something I can do right now, or perhaps something else I can do later to supplement my plan. Again, I don't know if any of you know what is said on the Magic Bullets about turning friends into girlfriends, but I know it is covered a little.

[sigma]

So you want her as a monagamous girlfriend eventually if I am reading you right ?

[doomstick]

http://www.venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=981

This is a FANTASTICALLY simple and beautifully-effective way to transition a genuine female friend into a playmate, or potentially more.

I have slept with basically ALL my female friends (and still sleep with most of them from time-to-time) and they number in the hundreds. Friendships with women are FAR easier to maintain than friendships with men, because they require remarkably-less time-investment.

It tends to be important, I find, to 'get the sex out of the way' (a la 'When Harry Met Sally') if a truly significant and enduring friendship is to be established.

Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy
hey man that post was just what i needed

[Johnny Soporno]

I'm not looking for this form of relationship (friend with benefits), but rather an "official relationship" - boyfriend-girlfriend deal, if you will.

Oh Lord My God...

Sex, in my case, will come after the commitment - not before.

Have you tried speaking directly to Lizzy and telling her you'd like to be her boyfriend? She might actually be enthusiastic about the prospect, especially if you come from similar moral backgrounds?


I don't want to "turn-back the clock" and undo the friendship/rapport generation I've already established, but rather I'd like to add the passion to the friendship (isn't being in love and/or having a girlfriend basically friendship+passion?).

Tragically Erik, NO, it isn't. What most-people describe as 'in love' is an indescribable chemically-enhanced sensation, in which there is an amphetamine-like 'rush' which overwhelms you, and all reason and accountability fly out the window. During this period of a relationship, known as the 'infatuation phase', the passion will be incomparable, and the sex fantastic!

But hopefully, that's not what you're after, because there simply isn't a route from where you are to where you'd like to be. :(

What you seem to be after is a 'perfectly-reasonable' bonding between people who get-along very well. However, without organically-generated passion, there is fundamentally nothing I can think of which might serve to get something like this going, short of arranged marriage?

Johnny Soporno
Flummoxed

[chuyerik]

Reply to Sigma: Yes, that's pretty much correct. You know... like the "normal" kind of relationship, if you see what I mean since "normal" is probably a vague word nowadays.

Reply to Johnny: Yeah, I know how it sounds to you, but I think you are very in tune and understand how I see it as well, and therefore how much I value it.

Ahhh yes... I think she probably started noticing my interest in her and I believe that she began perceiving it as a DLV. That's part of the reason I didn't bring up the idea of a possible relationship between her and I. The similar moral backgrounds is definitely a plus (actually, in the long run it would be a significant reason why we would stay together), but I think that the "organically-generated passion" that you mentioned is what needs to happen before anything and I'm hoping the plan that I'm undertaking creates that. It's obvious that the logical part is there, but the emotional part (on her end) still needs to happen, and I know I have not done enough in the time that we've known each other to create that (nor was I aware of the Venusian Arts at the time). Well, I hope you can and would suggest something, because I am positive that there are measures that can be taken (aside from the ones I'm already taking). Your suggestions would be greatly appreciated and valued.

Thank you Gentlemen

[Hulk]

You don't.

Obsessing about a girl you know will prevent you from meeting new girls, improving, and getting success. I can hit happy hour tonight and get some numbers, maybe an instant date and SNL. I can do that most any night.

Why would I care about the hottie in my office when I have infinite options outside the office?

Toss off your past and focus on your future.

great fucking advice.....

[Cedar]

My 'Converting Girl Friends to Girlfriends' requires absolutely NO SKILL or 'Game' at all. ZERO! Nada.


You're assuming the average seduction student has the social skills to meet and befriend women. They don't. That's based on going to bootcamps, dispensing advice on the forums and more than a few PMs and phone calls with incoming students. The AVERAGE student chose a lifestyle DEVOID of women. They know MAYBE six girls. One of which is HOT.

They come into the community looking for a quick fix. They ask hot to get THE hottie. When all we can teach is how to get A hottie. I discourage these posts because the person asking it is coming from a place of scarcity.

You're an inner game guy. Inner game gurus are so self absorbed in their concepts, they have difficulty seeing other perspectives. It's not a failing. It's a gift. You'll see shit from that ivory tower I would never find on my own. And you're damn good at delivering that view to those of us able to reach the base of the tower.

But you forget there's a journey between AFC-ville, and the base of your tower.

P.S. I'm on your third video. Good shit. I'll PM you when I'm finished.

[Johnny Soporno]

You're assuming the average seduction student has the social skills to meet and befriend women. They don't.

I hear you loud and clear, Cedar - but I've been coaching computer-geeks and other social-retards for over 15 years (since long before computers were 'cool' at all!) and I strongly believe that removing the 'dating' and 'potential girlfriend' aspects from their minds TRULY helps them to establish socialization with women - albeit exclusively AS friends.

They come into the community looking for a quick fix. They ask hot to get THE hottie. When all we can teach is how to get A hottie.

Yes, I am sure you're right when it comes to 'The Seduction Community' and methods like TMM and VA, at least.


I discourage these posts because the person asking it is coming from a place of scarcity.

Yeah, I can see that. I generally begin by explaining the TRULY non-obvious bit - that there are a HELL of a lot more desirable women than there are even ACCEPTABLE men; and that if they recraft themselves into a DESIRABLE MAN, they'll be unstoppable.

You're an inner game guy. Inner game gurus are so self absorbed in their concepts, they have difficulty seeing other perspectives. It's not a failing. It's a gift. You'll see shit from that ivory tower I would never find on my own. And you're damn good at delivering that view to those of us able to reach the base of the tower.

But you forget there's a journey between AFC-ville, and the base of your tower.

P.S. I'm on your third video. Good shit. I'll PM you when I'm finished.

I appreciate the compliments, and I accept that I am SO distant from a typical AFC that I can only synthesize how he's experiencing life...

This is why I attend this forum, and others online, and coach so many people freely - because I need the feedback from 'typical guys' to ensure I can publish comprehensive things which can reach the lowest-common denominator.

My seminars are very effective at communicating my 'alternative model' to established PUAs and PUAs in training (and I'm very proud to say, well-received by mPUAs as well!) and have done a lot for a lot of senior Community guys - but reaching down to the entry-level is where it gets trickiest for me.

Thanks for your clarifications, Cedar - hope to hear from you soon!

Johnny Soporno
Lifestyle Guru