The Venusian Artist & Relationships

[Harlequin]

So you're in a relationship with a girl that you met via gaming her. Does that mean the game stops?

You cannot destroy anything. You can only change its form. The form of game changes. Evolution is a process you cannot escape from. The game is not over, though it should never mean you're not being 'the real you'.

If you're a true Venusian Artist then you didn't manipulate her into liking you, you merely enhanced your persona into someone that she became attracted to, you sexy bastard.

If you're of the mind that a relationship is a nice place to sleep for a few nights... but you wouldn't want to live in one (' *,) then you're prolly going to go down the MLTR route, maybe you'll use Nathanx's Long Term Qualifying Hoops, Johnny Soporno's excellent system of MLTR management or learn from Hypnotica's wisdom.

All well & good. What about when we find a girl, one great girl that you like so much, that you want to be with just her & no one else. How strangely beautiful, & beautifully strange, this concept of fidelity, commitment... monotony, sorry, monogamy.

Consider a few things.
Our perception is our reality. How does she perceive you? How they perceive you is how they receive you. Are we men of integrity, or are we just going through the motions like robots. Did you find yourself suddenly with a girlfriend & wonder how the hell you're supposed to 'be'? The game's not over it's just beginning, it's now the game of being who you are & having a great time together. Any method of meeting people, any trick, routine or material you've stockpiled over the years, like stained glass windows of differing colours, no matter which method you're looking at, it's still the light on the other side that makes it all shine. You were that light...

As you reflect on this, maybe read The Price of Nice (http://www.venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=342) & the other threads in this section.

You can learn from your mistakes & you can learn from the mistakes of others. So many have gone from being absorbed in Venusian Arts that they are left empty when they are not partaking in the pick up & for some, it's like they've forgotten who they are.

Don't get obsessed in this stuff; your identity, your personality, your value... it's all that you ever used to pick girls up & you conveyed who you are through the art. Now you're with this girl the artform & the artist are one.

If this is not your reality, realize it. Make it real. See it with your real eyes & not as a pick up artist, just you... as you were only wiser now & as someone who knows that the only true mistake is not learning from it. The game evolves...

Love in the Game & the Game of Being in Love. (http://www.venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=343)

[Yoda]

I've always wondered how a PUA transitions into a LTR

[claudius]

I'm in an LTR right now. In the past every time I've tried to have a "girlfriend" it's turned out in failure. I hung out with this girl as a friend and then we started fucking. And then we became more and more attached to eachother. I discovered I really liked her.

Don't get me wrong. I still sarge/get with other girls, but she's so much fun. We're like best friends. Except we fuck.

I don't think you just wake up one day and say "I'm going to drop every relationship I have now and have an LTR." I think it's a gradual process in which you both become more and more committed to eachother. Love doesn't happen overnight, and if it does it'll take only a night to end.

[glbtrottr]

Style and I talked about this in LA, and I mentioned it to Mystery in passing once upon a time.

For a little over 25 years, there's been a school of thought that is *totally* congruent (in my opinion) with pickup. Because it is so, it's not generally accepted by the mainstream, hence why it's not as well known.

Covering the material in one post would be much like covering Mystery's, Juggler's, and everyone else's beliefs and methods in one post, and I won't do justice to it. However, a couple of things to think about - the belief is:

Discipline in differentiating between SHORT TERM RECREATIONAL RELATIONSHIPS and LONG TERM COMMITTED RELATIONSHIPS.

You cannot truly earn the right to be in a LTCR until you've mastered the art of the STRR.

STRR's really should be limited to no more than 3 months - otherwise you're wasting your time and keeping her from truly having a guy in her life that will do right by her - particularly if you can do better.

Long term recreational relationships tend to be fairly destructive, not terribly productive in nature as a general rule. We would call it "cheesy game".

The purpose of the STRR is to enable you to deal with rejection, overcome it, and ultimately, to improve your choices for when you finally do choose an LTCR.

If and when you do choose to enter into an LTCR, and ultimately marriage, possibly, consider that when you marry, you're essentially saying "this is the best you're going to get".

We by way of gaming tend to focus generally on STRR's. However, there is much to be discussed on long term committed relationships.

A lot of the belief system related to what I talked about revolves around how men tend to predominantly function around ego and success, naturally so, while women tend to focus on fashion, emotion and social status.

Transitioning into LTCR's after game is such a breeze with the proper skillset and belief system, that women not only are prequalified to act in a particular manner with their men, but most importantly, tend to be fiercely loyal and understand their role with you as the Alpha male *implicitly*. Best of all, this is not new, some of it is fairly mainstream, and while not talked about much, is the foundation for countless, successful long term relationships.

I've tried to get Style to meet with that group of folks to make a connection, referral and transition, and perhaps Mystery, Matador and Lovedrop may consider this, but again - this is completely congruent and a fabulous follow on to what we do. Women get exactly what they want, so do we, and the results are really very cool.

If anyone is curious, I can certainly discuss it - but want to make sure the forum is okay with the type of discussion.

[claudius]

If anyone is curious, I can certainly discuss it - but want to make sure the forum is okay with the type of discussion.

This forum hosts unmoderated discussion. Post what you will. (Btw, I'm all for it!)

[Ridiculous]

Well im in a four year relationship now and seriously Ive learned a shit load of things. But again...I'm still in the game, I just don't cheat.

Sometimes being in the LTR gets boring, so what i do is randomly talk to girls just to feel more confident and good about myself. eg, When i go to the gym with my buddy, i tell him for now on we will try to approach 3-4 girls every session at the gym. Not asking her out (unless u want to) and not cheating (for me that is)...but just being able to approach them.

My friend first didnt like the idea...but then all i said was... well would you like it if one day you go to the gym and you see 7-8 girls say Hi to you. Now you tell me, how would you feel about that? Pretty damn good eh? Just make some friends and see how it goes from there.

As for myself, I may be in a LTR, but I always dream of going out ... (playing pool...eating dinner, or some thing) with a shit load of women. Just to feel great!

I must say I am so addicted to the Game, and loving it!

[Flowz]

I've transitioned from 6 year bachelorship to a 9month and runnin LTsemiCR

Can divulge the story, but no time now.. just posting to bookmark this topic..

keep u posted..

Flowz..

[Colin]

You can learn from your mistakes & you can learn from the mistakes of others.


Yes, of course. But love sometimes makes you blind. As we all know: Brain and heart are different things. I got a good friend. I told him all about being Mr. Nice in a relationship and after he broke up a 4 year relationship, he started acting like Mr. Nice again. Once I meet his new girl (girlfriend for only a year now) at the club I couldn`t believe what she said to me (and this guy would really do anything for her):

"I gotta tell you something I told nobody yet. Sometimes I can`t love the things he does for me. I mean it`s cute and he`s very nice but I can`t appreciate it. I don`t know really why, ...."

And that`s the point when a women gets overwhelmed by a worse feeling:
She feels ashamed that she can not appreciate the things he does, even if they`re good things.

A guy take care after his girl and her needs is great. But giving too much ends up in the same result as giving too little.

[Deft9]

If you're of the mind that a relationship is a nice place to sleep for a few nights... but you wouldn't want to live in one (' *,) then you're prolly going to go down the MLTR route, maybe you'll use Nathanx's Long Term Qualifying Hoops, Johnny Soporno's excellent system of MLTR management or learn from Hypnotica's wisdom.


What are NathanX's Long Term Qualifying Hoops? I did a yahoo search and only found a masteryoursexlife.com consultation that costs money.

[Greystoke]

What are NathanX's Long Term Qualifying Hoops? I did a yahoo search and only found a masteryoursexlife.com consultation that costs money.

It's on the old MM forum, I think. I remember reading it a long time ago.

[Pipedreamz]

One of the things that I've got questions about is when you are in a relationship with a girl where you want to date exclusively ( only see each other) how long should you wait until you bring it up and how should you do so?

[Harlequin]

That's a great question. I don't have one definitive answer. It's down to openness, honesty, awareness & integrity. I would say merely, announce your truth as soon as you know it. This does not mean saying you want a relationship before there's any evidence that she wants one though, otherwise you run the risk of being an uncalibrated fool.

Define what you want to experience before something that you don't want to experience is happening. I've had common instances of having to openly define what it is that I want very early on so that no one can not know my intentions.

I'd have feedback from the girl because I will either know it from discussion or we'll both just feel it & it doesn't even require being spoken about... & even then I'll state where I seek to go or not to go because that's the fair thing to do.

When I ascend from relating to relationship it's because we're both decided on it. I've been with Columbine for a long time now & the reason for our success is that we place no limits on each other & we can discuss everything & absolutely anything.

We may have other girls with us sometimes, we may menage like it's the norm. What we do not do is hide our truth from each other.

[Deft9]

Tonight the girl I'm seeing said she wants to be my girlfriend. She wants the relationship to be exclusive. I knew this was coming, and I've read the threads on here about MLTR's, but I still wasn't fully prepared with what to say and how to frame it properly.

I do not want an exclusive relationship right now. I want to be boyfriend/girlfriend, but I want to have the option of dating other women if I want to, without it being "cheating". To me being boyfriend/girlfriend does not necessarily mean we are exclusive. I told her this, and that to be fair, she could see other men.

I hope this is going to work. It definitely wasn't what she wanted to hear, but she started kissing me afterwards so I guess it's a frame she can accept for now.

This whole topic is still pretty FAR OUT to might right now. 3 months ago I would have felt so lucky to have a girl want an exclusive relationship with me. Now I feel like I can get another woman if I want to and I want to keep my options open.

[Harlequin]

Even Zeus wouldn't steal the thunder from Johnny Soporno on this one: download his seminar which covers MLTRs.

Free for all. (http://www.themajesticself.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3785&highlight=download)

[Deft9]

I found this wikipedia entry defining "open relationships" to be helpful in clarifying the difference between "open relationships" and "polyamorous relationships." I agree with the idea that being honest and open about what you want and letting the woman decide whether to accept that frame is a good idea. At this point in my life I want a polyamorous relationship and it looks like the woman I'm seeing is going to be able to accept that frame for the time being. The drawback is that she is free to connect with other men. However, this is a sacrifice I am willing to accept for now, since it means I can connect with other women. We are both going to have to be responsible from a health standpoint.

An open relationship denotes a relationship (usually between two people) in which participants are free to take other partners; if the couple making this agreement are married, it is an open marriage. While "open relationship" is sometimes used as a synonym for "polyamory" or "polyamorous relationship", these terms are generally differentiated. The "open" in "open relationship" usually refers to the sexual aspect of a non-closed relationship, whereas "polyamory" refers to the extension of a relationship by allowing bonds to form (which may be sexual or otherwise) as additional long term relationships:

Some relationships place strict restrictions on partners (e.g. polyfidelity); such relationships are polyamorous, but not open.

Some relationships permit sex outside the primary relationship, but not love (e.g. swinging); such relationships are open, but not polyamorous.

Some polyamorists do not accept the dichotomies of "in a relationship/not in a relationship" and "partners/not partners"; without these divisions, it is meaningless to class a relationship as 'open' and 'closed'.

Some polyamorists consider 'polyamory' to be their philosophical orientation — they believe themselves capable and desirous of multiple loves — whereas 'open relationship' is used as a logistical description: that is, it is how their polyamory is expressed or implemented. They would say of themselves, for instance, "I am polyamorous; my primary partner and I have an open relationship (with the following ground rules)...."

However, there is enough overlap between the two concepts that 'open relationship' is sometimes used as a catch-all substitute when speaking to people who may not be familiar with 'polyamory'.

[Pipedreamz]

Tonight the girl I'm seeing said she wants to be my girlfriend. She wants the relationship to be exclusive. I knew this was coming, and I've read the threads on here about MLTR's, but I still wasn't fully prepared with what to say and how to frame it properly.

I do not want an exclusive relationship right now. I want to be boyfriend/girlfriend, but I want to have the option of dating other women if I want to, without it being "cheating". To me being boyfriend/girlfriend does not necessarily mean we are exclusive. I told her this, and that to be fair, she could see other men.

I hope this is going to work. It definitely wasn't what she wanted to hear, but she started kissing me afterwards so I guess it's a frame she can accept for now.

This whole topic is still pretty FAR OUT to might right now. 3 months ago I would have felt so lucky to have a girl want an exclusive relationship with me. Now I feel like I can get another woman if I want to and I want to keep my options open.

Its good that you told her that you wanted an open relationship basically. Obviously she kept kissing you cuz she obviously likes you and felt that the only way she could date you was in an open relationship so she went through with it. you should also keep in mind that she may stay in the relationship with you purely with the intention of making it an exclusive relationship and she may get hurt more in the future or waste her time trying to make something happen that isnt there.

I think if ur honest about how u feel with the girl though then thats all someone could really ask for and however it plays out is how it is.

[Deft9]

Here's a thought:

I've read Johnny Soporno's thoughts on MLTRs. Basically his rule is, "I will be no woman's only male lover." The idea behind this is that it makes a woman feel like he is not her ONLY option. She's not TOO reliant on him, because she has other lovers, other options. She's not NEEDY.

I have a different idea. If you've ever watched the show Big Love on HBO, or read about the polygomists in Utah, or watched Mystery-recommended "The Human Sexes" by Desmond Morris from the learning channel, you know that it's possible for a woman to accept her man having other wives/women. I think the key thing that triggers a woman's jealousy, the psychological response that makes her PROTECTIVE of her man, is a feeling that if he's seeing someone else, he will leave her.

It's this FEAR OF LOSS, that makes them seek an exclusive relationship. If we can REMOVE that fear, their frames are so pliable that they can accept OTHER WOMEN sleeping with THEIR MAN, because they know he will come back to her, protect her offspring, etc. If you can convice a woman that her relationship with you is SAFE, then she will accept your having a 2nd or 3rd lover.

I've had some drinks tonight, so I'm not sure if this is an epiphany, or just drunk-speak, but I'm posting it just in case it's the former. It's not FIELD-TESTED. Just theory.

P.S. I don't like the "best of the forum" section for threads like this. This thread should be "stickied" in the relationships section.

EDIT: Even though I sometimes disagree with Johnny Soporno, his ideas are thought-provoking to me. Johnny if you read this, I want you to know that I really appreciate your contributions.

[Johnny Soporno]

Here's a thought:

I've read Johnny Soporno's thoughts on MLTRs. Basically his rule is, "I will be no woman's only male lover." The idea behind this is that it makes a woman feel like he is not her ONLY option. She's not TOO reliant on him, because she has other lovers, other options. She's not NEEDY.

While that is certainly true, it is not ENOUGH - it also requires the Second Rule, which is that she (and all my other girls) must commit to best-efforts to getting along with my other girlfriends. Otherwise, the infighting, sniping, and cattiness prevents a harmonious home environment, and that is unacceptable.

I have a different idea. If you've ever watched the show Big Love on HBO, or read about the polygomists in Utah, or watched Mystery-recommended "The Human Sexes" by Desmond Morris from the learning channel, you know that it's possible for a woman to accept her man having other wives/women. I think the key thing that triggers a woman's jealousy, the psychological response that makes her PROTECTIVE of her man, is a feeling that if he's seeing someone else, he will leave her.

It's this FEAR OF LOSS, that makes them seek an exclusive relationship. If we can REMOVE that fear, their frames are so pliable that they can accept OTHER WOMEN sleeping with THEIR MAN, because they know he will come back to her, protect her offspring, etc. If you can convice a woman that her relationship with you is SAFE, then she will accept your having a 2nd or 3rd lover.

Of course - humans are, by nature, fundamentally polygynous [one male: many females] and concepts like monogamy & romantic connections are strictly recent social artifact....

Women know intuitively that part of a winner is better than ALL of a loser - and many women will all want to connect with a man who displays all the necessary masculine traits.

My own situation is that IF I DIDN'T enforce my Two Rules strictly, I would inevitably wind up miserable - with women becoming overly territorial and possessive. Whereas, I currently maintain ongoing sexual relationships with probably 50% of the women I meet, and 100% of the women I take to bed.


Even though I sometimes disagree with Johnny Soporno, his ideas are thought-provoking to me. Johnny if you read this, I want you to know that I really appreciate your contributions.

Understood, and appreciated :)

[Argo navis]

Johnny, for clarity, aren't humans polygamous? Polygynous is a tribal thing, but then, in their genes, women are more promiscuous than men. ?

[Johnny Soporno]

Johnny, for clarity, aren't humans polygamous? Polygynous is a tribal thing, but then, in their genes, women are more promiscuous than men. ?


Polygamous suggests multiple males and multiple females - polygynous is exclusively referring to one male and

The Sire (aka Alpha male) of the family would normally lay-claim over all the females, protecting them and providing for them, and all of their offspring - presuming them to be his own children.

Of course, quite often the women would manage to become pregnant with other men's children, but it didn't actually matter much if the Sire was blissfully ignorant of it.

Johnny Soporno
Evolutionary Psychologist