Repost of MY Beliefs of What Pickup Is::

[Von_Halen]

I've posted this before, but as a result of much discussion it got moved to another section. I'm reposting it here just to get some good feedback:


I'm taking a social psychology class. They go over attraction and shit, and i wanted to know how it compared to being a PUA. But we currently went over self-esteem. This is what pickup REALLY is:

We're learning that (kind of obvious) people with high self-esteem give meaningful compliments, are more friendly, give great vibes, and let things slide off their back more easily. (For those who've read Revelation, this is the ghost and the flame!!!) This is also ALPHA. Beta males have LOW SELF-ESTEEM.

Ever notice how if you were at an engagement where you were the star (for instance, a musician at one of his shows) you felt like a BOSS?? You RADIATED alpha-ness. That's cuz you had a kind of "situational" high self-esteem. Make sense?

Now, canned material is a fake-it-till-you-make-it self-esteem booster. You use them in the beginning till you start to build your own self-esteem. That's why GOOD PUA's get off of canned material eventually and just vibe. They're finally confident being themselves and have high self-esteem.

And in turn, Peacock Theory is actually a DHV. Instantly saying "Hey, i have high self-esteem, cuz low self-esteem people would be too self-conscious to wear something ridiculous like this" is a DHV in and of itself, isn't it?

So pickup teaches you just as much as harnessing your inner potential and make you feel COMFORTABLE IN YOUR OWN SKIN as it does teaching you social awareness and knowledge. That's the key.
__________________________________________________ __

So, pickup is a tool to GIVE PEOPLE HIGH SELF-ESTEEM.

This means being comfortable with YOURSELF. In order to do that, you need to know who you are. This is what I did, and I just finally found the answer last night (after a few days of thinking). Here's what i did. Try it.

Ask yourself this: WHO ARE YOU?

I don't want one of those cookie-cutter answers like "I'm Tom. I'm a real estate agent." F*ck that shit. I want something legit. something deep. Something at your VERY CORE. WHO ARE YOU!?

I can see how it'd be a hard question to answer it, but I'm gonna try and help you.

Here's how I answered it.

First, pick two things you've ALWAYS cared about MOST, TRULY AND DEEPLY. Something that throughout your life has constantly been there (whether in the background or forefront, or both at some point or another. It doesn't have to be a good thing necessarily, either).

For me, this was Music, and girls. Girl-wise, i've ALWAYS wanted a girl to care about and to care about me. I didn't feel complete without it. Music is my life. Every song i hear, I listen to the lyrics, the flow, and it speaks to me.

So, take the first example: GIRLS.

ask yourself why a few times. Why do i like girls?
--- I like the touch, the feeling of being loved.

Why?
--- Because it's important to me.

Why?
---------- BECAUSE I'M A LOVER.

There's one. At my core, i'm a lover.

Now, for MUSIC:

why?
---Because it makes me happy

why?
--- because it speaks to me. Lyrics are very important to me.

Why?
--- because lyrics have hidden meaning. the written word can be so beautiful.

why?
---- BECAUSE I'M A POET.

There it is. I'm a poet. (I include being a lover into a poet, since there's that whole romantic side of poetry). When i think about it, all through my life i've written poems (at a VERY young age i started this) then it turned into music. Lyrics, instruments, etc.

So I can be summed up in one word now. I'm a POET. And now that i thought about it, it all makes sense, and i feel SO GOOD. I've answered the question "Who are you" without talking about some bullshit like "I'm an engineer" or "I'm an athlete".
__________________________________________________ ____________

now why'd i have you do that? Well once i found it out, I IMMEDIATELY felt more comfortable in my own skin. Sounds weird, but it's true.

Feeling comfortable in your own skin is in my opinion the FIRST and MOST IMPORTANT rule of pickup. If you don't feel that way, EVERYTHING after that will be awkward and uncomfortable for you. PICKUP TEACHES YOU HOW TO DO THIS.

So "naturals" are just people with high self-esteem and general social awareness. cool.

I'm not saying that the ideas and stages of the game aren't important, because they are, but this concept i'm explaining relays mostly to inner game (which in turn FUELS your outer game).

PUA's are amazing at what they do because they have HIGH SELF-ESTEEM, AND they have a GREAT understanding of social awareness. If I could give one piece of advice to any new comers to the game, it'd be this:

First, LOVE YOURSELF. Me and my buddies live by the theme "ELE", which stands for Everybody Love Everybody. YOU'RE PART OF THAT "EVERYBODY". Love yourself. That's the first stage. Everything after will come easier if you love yourself and realize how amazing you are as a person.

[Nihilus]

I also posted before, and I really have to explain it in detail.Keep to the subject this time.Dont start flaming and use insults this time.


Originally Posted by Von_Halen View Post
. This is what pickup REALLY is:

Now, canned material is a fake-it-till-you-make-it self-esteem booster. You use them in the beginning till you start to build your own self-esteem. That's why GOOD PUA's get off of canned material eventually and just vibe. They're finally confident being themselves and have high self-esteem.

And in turn, Peacock Theory is actually a DHV. Instantly saying "Hey, i have high self-esteem, cuz low self-esteem people would be too self-conscious to wear something ridiculous like this" is a DHV in and of itself, isn't it?

So pickup teaches you just as much as harnessing your inner potential and make you feel COMFORTABLE IN YOUR OWN SKIN as it does teaching you social awareness and knowledge. That's the key.
__________________________________________________ __

So, pickup is a tool to GIVE PEOPLE HIGH SELF-ESTEEM.
Pickup is a tool to get girls. The majority of people having pickup as a goal to pickup defines it, just like other things, what the majortiy of people who uses said proffesion.


No, Peacock is a DHV because standout.

Canned material is not fake it until you make it. It works because it is INTERESTING. Like mystery said once, "-:you dont NEED confidence to approach, when I go out there in the field, I am scared shitless." You dont need confidence to get girls, you need to validly use good material. Before my wingman and confident and extremely insecure in my other areas of life, including pick up, we still got hb7 the first days of our pickup using canned material. Then we got hb8 and hb9s even days later.

The main point is that Outer game will always be most important. Innergame is good yes, but Outer game is the core of MM, always has been, never been fake it until you make it. This is proven by the fact that girls are far more interested in material such as Drama and "who lies more" rather than things such as "hey i know you, you are that girl at my store right" because it is boring. this has been proven gigantic amount of times by hundres of students of other MM schools aswell, that when the only relied on talking randomly, they got less success,even though they still felt great, had a great mood they continued on. Those who got "success" didnt get IOI and used something that appealed to them
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_consequences

Quote:
It is closely related to wishful thinking in its construction.
Examples

"Pi is probably a rational number: being rational would make it more elegant."
Thats why relying on innergame alone and trying to go out and pick up is dangerous. why? because while you feel great and confident, you arent getting numbers or lays. This is something mystery himself has proven over and over again to people, thats why people ignore the IOI and emotionally rationalize why it was a IOI, even if she didnt do one and was just polite.

Thats why an insecure guy can get laid using canned material while both displaying some incogruenity and some slight insecurity, while a secure and confident guy cant get laid talking about random objects or random subjects. Talking about rapport has been proven by mystery not to work ,be they confident or not, rapport is boring since they heard it all before, that includes it contains no drama nor interesting subjects to talk about.
The succesrate of lays of girls has also been proven to be VERY weak IF you ONLY rely on innergame and confidence.

Why? because WOMEN GET CONFIDENT GUYS ALL THE TIME! both "confident" and confident vibing with energy, but they are still boring! confidence in itself is not enough to get girls, you need to have something to attract girls with, thats why AFCadam for example students have so low succesrate, because they use only confidence and take some MM, but they dont understand it. thats why they fail. Since women get confident guys all the time(no not fake ones) that really stands out and shine, thats why you use MM. So yeah, outergame first, get success with PUA.

You dont need to give different subjects to a afc guy, let him sit beside you and close to some girls at the oposite part, and let him talk about how:

-:a girl he knows is jealous of his boyfriends sister

And get the girls more interested in the subject, and then let him talk about: -:what type of things that are behind the counter of the store. Feeling confident and great thinking he got something
And see how the girls are becoming bored and more uninterested.

Vice versa has been tested aswell, talking about things in the room, the girls dont turn their head to meet him, and when he talks about that girls like leaders and how they work and do a coldread, then they really got interested. Thats why MM work, because it is interested, both in simular situations has been tested to see if girls react to interested subjects, even when the guy itself thought both were boring.

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-08-05/j...ss?_s=PM:CRIME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSEozUu5d-4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvZ...eature=related

The last one is "George Sodini at The Right Attitude Workshop Intro Part 1 "
The guy that did suicide, to much innergame relying.

Look, the main point i am trying to make is that you should not to get overhyped that you are finaly confident and hype up that you finaly feel great and such. I also explained why it is such a dangerous path to be TO overhyped about this when you feel down and finaly feel confident. Getting innergame is fine, aslong as you got your outergame so you wont rely on it yourself. Outergame IS YOURSELF aswell, you are a person that want to go out and used canned routines to pick up, like most other men want to get succes

Quote:
Its all about inner game guys.. If your inner game is weak, if you feel yourself low value, then even if you have the best routines, wingmen like Mystery, it would be hard even to
pick up a hb5...
Check my answer uppalone, mystery proved plenty of times guys getting constant 8s while insecure. Being confident alone is not enough to attract girls, this is appealing to consequences and emotions, has nothing to do with picking up SOLID GAME.


Thats why you see juggler and afcadam students have so much bad succesrate, because they only use innergame. its not enough when there actually exist guys out there who isnt insecure, and is very very confident, but since girls already met that type of confident guys every time they go out (and no its not "confident" guys either) than there is no reason they would go to you if you only use confidence. Or like Paul Janka of NYC, 10,000 approaches with 132 total lays this equates to only 1.32% overall lay rate.



Longrant and grammar mistakes, but to make it a point that so many insecure guys has been misstaken why MM work and tried just go confidence and go vibing only riding the I feel good train only for months of trying having very low success the next. Thats why:go out, get Outergame first, THEN! get innergame, and use Outergame and canned material as a priority. Again, MM dont succed because it fake it until you make it, it succeds when the guy is insecure and got interested material. Its good to be innergame, but dont forget the material, your own or MMs original material.

Counting the number lays per week and month, it is VERY low and very low standard of 5 and 6s for the majority of students that got over 2 years of experience of picking up using only innergame. Presenting few successes and avoiding presenting the failures is a sure way to hype up. Check mysteries Venusian artist manual, page 52-53 what mystery hemself tells that using only innergame and rapport first is destructive and bad for your pick up.
use rapport and comfort after attraction phase.

In short, use outergame first, then some innergame if you feel really bad about yourself. So you wont turn up like
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3582779967328566084#

A RSD instructor failing picking up due to his own hype of only using innergame itself. its good if you feel bad but using only that is bad for your PUA and health in other areas of your life aswell. Thats why von halen you should change yourself from such a destrutive style of PUA, thats one feedback.

A friendly reminder to keep it civil if anyone disagrees with said things. Thanks.

[Von_Halen]

I believe that Mystery has AA when he approaches, cuz frankly he's goofy lol. He's the man, nonetheless. As I read this initial post again, I can KIND of see where you're coming from.

Outer game is important, I never denied that. For some people it's all they know.

However, to me, inner game is JUST as important. To me, confidence and general happiness with yourself outweighs success with girls, and in fact, to me, confidence and general happiness with yourself helps you GET girls, and girls GIVE you confidence and general happiness with yourself. It's a cycle. We clearly disagree here, but now I'm coming from a level-headed state and we should just admit that we have different views.

My apologies for getting overzealous and insulting you. I was very heated because I could NOT understand your viewpoint at all. Now that I see the angle you're coming at, while I disagree with it still, I am comfortable accepting that it's just the way you work.

[Nihilus]

I believe that Mystery has AA when he approaches, cuz frankly he's goofy lol. He's the man, nonetheless. As I read this initial post again, I can KIND of see where you're coming from.

Outer game is important, I never denied that. For some people it's all they know.

However, to me, inner game is JUST as important. To me, confidence and general happiness with yourself outweighs success with girls, and in fact, to me, confidence and general happiness with yourself helps you GET girls, and girls GIVE you confidence and general happiness with yourself. It's a cycle. We clearly disagree here, but now I'm coming from a level-headed state and we should just admit that we have different views.

My apologies for getting overzealous and insulting you. I was very heated because I could NOT understand your viewpoint at all. Now that I see the angle you're coming at, while I disagree with it still, I am comfortable accepting that it's just the way you work.

Its not about being important to people, its all about your success and the amount of it in general for the majority of people. Like I stated before, if you feel like shit, sure go ahead and use it, using it alone like mystery says and the proof like in the RSD videos, paul and that Ron steel student who did suicide, innergame alone is not enough to get you girls on a solid game and will statisticly have a lower success rate. The amount of girls and IOI and lays also proves its not enough only to use it.

Main point is to user outergame first, which mystery proves you dont need confidence to succeed. and that while confidence is not enough to get solid and only a bit low succesrate of IOI and lays, it can be used so you wont feel like shit and later on in your PUA, if its used fanaticly like RSD and relying only on it itself, then its bad for your Pick up and other areas in life where you life rationalize things.

If you had it bad in life, and worse then most, then I am also fine if anyone uses innergame to deal with bad memories (anyone of ones family member that died, ilness or simular harsh things) aslong as you use outergame to get girls primary, I am fine with it.

[Von_Halen]

Again man, different views. I don't vibe well with your last post, so I'm just gonna agree to disagree.

[Nihilus]

True, I derive it from facts and sources, though you dont need to vibe things, you just need to see it yourself.

[Von_Halen]

Derive it from whatever you want, it's just not for me.

[Nihilus]

Sadly it does not seem so, but others been changed from fanatical innergame only, so others will finaly know what to do now.

[nebuR]

Nihilus you are talking crazy, seems you are too snowed in on this PUA stuff.

You know, only because mystery is the most well known PUA, he is not even NEAR the best naturals in the world when it comes to success with women.

There are TONS of guys out there, "naturals" who break every PUA rule every day and they get laid like ROCKSTARS.

How do you explain my friend, 200 lays if not more, 23 years old fighter dude who is totally CRAZY, he walks up to HOTTIES and say "EY, listen up, I have a HUGE COCK and Im an AMAZING FUCK, lets make a porno tonight!" and he ends up with the girls? The dude is hilarious, his confidence is REDICILOUS strong, he is loud, he doesnt give a fuck about everything.

I once told him about this seduction sites to which he responded "HA, fucking fags, who need to read about this? Just express yourself and tell her whats on your mind and believe in it and you are good to go", and I start to believe in that more and more.

All this DHV and shit, I guess its all great, but guys break this rules ALL THE TIME, guys have been hooking up with chicks all thru history, there are ALOT of fucking MACHINES out there who aint following PUA methods.

For example, this guy, old drug addict, kinda ugly, sloppy looking, not that stylish, but he is SEXUAL, CRAZY and confident as FUCK, have a great vibe and he probably fucks more and hotter girls than ANY mPUA ull ever meet:

http://www.youtube.com/user/brandonovakdotcom

audio of him:

http://brandonovak.com/novak-explains-his-game

[Nihilus]

Nihilus you are talking crazy, seems you are too snowed in on this PUA stuff.

You know, only because mystery is the most well known PUA, he is not even NEAR the best naturals in the world when it comes to success with women.

There are TONS of guys out there, "naturals" who break every PUA rule every day and they get laid like ROCKSTARS.

How do you explain my friend, 200 lays if not more, 23 years old fighter dude who is totally CRAZY, he walks up to HOTTIES and say "EY, listen up, I have a HUGE COCK and Im an AMAZING FUCK, lets make a porno tonight!" and he ends up with the girls? The dude is hilarious, his confidence is REDICILOUS strong, he is loud, he doesnt give a fuck about everything.

I once told him about this seduction sites to which he responded "HA, fucking fags, who need to read about this? Just express yourself and tell her whats on your mind and believe in it and you are good to go", and I start to believe in that more and more.

All this DHV and shit, I guess its all great, but guys break this rules ALL THE TIME, guys have been hooking up with chicks all thru history, there are ALOT of fucking MACHINES out there who aint following PUA methods.

For example, this guy, old drug addict, kinda ugly, sloppy looking, not that stylish, but he is SEXUAL, CRAZY and confident as FUCK, have a great vibe and he probably fucks more and hotter girls than ANY mPUA ull ever meet:

http://www.youtube.com/user/brandonovakdotcom

audio of him:

http://brandonovak.com/novak-explains-his-game

No but THEY are hyping it like hell. If you have any proof that they are higher then him, including news sources for who brandonovak is, then you must provide facts for this. And you use "probably" but unless you have documented infield footage that shows IOI AND without the camera showing any breaks of approaching several groups, then I am afraid its not only show how they are getting girls who hasnt showed any IOI, didnt get any lay, but they did get converation, no IOI and a "party girl who kisses but wont come home" and there is a reason for that. because you couldnt create enough attraction for IOI, and because there is no documented proof of said lay. Getting laid like hobos aint exacly rockstairs, having a 10.000 like Paul and which brandonovak from logical deduction that he didnt recieve any real enough IOI from the girls, he didnt get to attract them anymore then the guy who got girls to laugh, and got kissing fests in the disco and on his daygame, but he didnt get any lays.

Because they understand the social dynamics under it, and mystery has proven this over and over again. You take isolated cases of succes and IGNORE the majority of failures. Unless you can have proof of your friends documented successes, videos of IOI and lays of his approaches, then your friend didnt succeed. That fact is derived from RSD instructors failing to go up here, and that shows that confidence is not enough.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3582779967328566084#

An guy who couldnt get enough IOI who you claim is better and has no documentated proof of students recieving or using simular having a majority of success with all approaches, suddenly is better?, that includese real IOI and lays, then he isnt close to a newbi student of PUA that just started for 5 hours picking up.


Mystery also explains on VA 52-53 why girls become unattracted by talking about borings things, which novak seemed to be doing, I mean jesus christ what.

What you are doing is you are appealing to consequences, something that appeals to the I dont care I just do what I want, even though it has no logical success to it and one takes isolated cases of it, and ignores the majority, just like the RSD video instructor and the steel seminar. It has nothing to do with success for the majority, and will create unattraction and have a very low amount of success. Oh, and that guy is failed when he was semi-famous with margera. And yes, having a gigantic amount of failures and only a low success like your friend of 12 lays throughout his existence until proven by facts and documentation, is not exacly success.

Having alot of hype and low amount of success proves this, logic and deduction, not just "go up and talk to her man" and then after 40 tries, "success" with the girls. by success real IOI and lays.

Thats not success, thats a lottery.

You are also talking about this on a PUA board that we are to snowed in, thats some contradiction if it ever was?

[nebuR]

No but THEY are hyping it like hell. If you have any proof that they are higher then him, including news sources for who brandonovak is, then you must provide facts for this. And you use "probably" but unless you have documented infield footage that shows IOI AND without the camera showing any breaks of approaching several groups, then I am afraid its not only show how they are getting girls who hasnt showed any IOI, didnt get any lay, but they did get converation, no IOI and a "party girl who kisses but wont come home" and there is a reason for that. because you couldnt create enough attraction for IOI, and because there is no documented proof of said lay. Getting laid like hobos aint exacly rockstairs, having a 10.000 like Paul and which brandonovak from logical deduction that he didnt recieve any real enough IOI from the girls, he didnt get to attract them anymore then the guy who got girls to laugh, and got kissing fests in the disco and on his daygame, but he didnt get any lays.

Because they understand the social dynamics under it, and mystery has proven this over and over again. You take isolated cases of succes and IGNORE the majority of failures. Unless you can have proof of your friends documented successes, videos of IOI and lays of his approaches, then your friend didnt succeed. That fact is derived from RSD instructors failing to go up here, and that shows that confidence is not enough.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3582779967328566084#

An guy who couldnt get enough IOI who you claim is better and has no documentated proof of students recieving or using simular having a majority of success with all approaches, suddenly is better?, that includese real IOI and lays, then he isnt close to a newbi student of PUA that just started for 5 hours picking up.


Mystery also explains on VA 52-53 why girls become unattracted by talking about borings things, which novak seemed to be doing, I mean jesus christ what.

What you are doing is you are appealing to consequences, something that appeals to the I dont care I just do what I want, even though it has no logical success to it and one takes isolated cases of it, and ignores the majority, just like the RSD video instructor and the steel seminar. It has nothing to do with success for the majority, and will create unattraction and have a very low amount of success. Oh, and that guy is failed when he was semi-famous with margera. And yes, having a gigantic amount of failures and only a low success like your friend of 12 lays throughout his existence until proven by facts and documentation, is not exacly success.

Having alot of hype and low amount of success proves this, logic and deduction, not just "go up and talk to her man" and then after 40 tries, "success" with the girls. by success real IOI and lays.

Thats not success, thats a lottery.

You are also talking about this on a PUA board that we are to snowed in, thats some contradiction if it ever was?


Dude wtf are you talking about? Get normal already, you seem very very creepish.

You think mystery is some like of "god" and everything he says is the bare none TRUTH and nothing can be agains it.


That is not reality, reality is that there are alot of guys who are probably WAY BETTER than any mPUA you'll ever meet.

What, you gonna say a guy who have fucked 400 girls "sucks at the game" ? While sitting there yourself, a KJ who have 5 lays in his entire life?

Dont u fucking realize that this is about getting more MANLY, more confident and enjoying life more? Not counting IOI and boosting your fucking ego validation?


And btw, REAL IOIs is often when the girl is quiet and attentive, Ive seen this 1000 times infield, because she becomes SO inside her head and microanalyzing when she is meeting a REAL alpha male so she becomes self consious and stiffled, EXACTLY as many of us do when we meet a real stunning 10, we become stiff and loose confidence.


Im not bashing down on MM or anything, Im just saying that its not BULLETPROOF reality and everything else is FALSE, ANYONE who is out in field will know this, jesus christ you sound like a real fucking KJ weirdo worshipping Mystery and everything he writes, just get fucking normal already.


You sound like you have some deep mental issues, you are TOO snowed in on PUA material and you should really relaxed a little bit, jesus christ.

[nebuR]

Basicly whats going on right here with you is that you are basing your sense of reality entirely on the MM method and the MM book. So if anyone says ANYTHING else, you have blindspots for it.

You dont NEED to get VISUAL IOIs to fuck a girl.


So, how do u explain my friend who fucks like CRAZY, (Yes Ive seen it with my own eyes, Im just out for the truth here), and he says STUPID shit like "Hey girl, wanna come home and ride my snake?" but he is so fucking funny, in his reality and have a great vibe so they LOVE him, I see him AGAIN AND AGAIN fuck HOTTIES.

Now, show me PROOF of ANY mPUA fucking SUPER HOT GIRLS 5 nights a week and also several makeouts each night out where the whole club loves him? Because I do know dudes like that, dudes who break ALOT of the pua rules all the time and are OUT THERE living the LIFESTYLE, while you are sitting on your fucking keyboard talking about "IOIS" and "DOCUMENTED proof that there actually are guys out there getting laid without following MM???"


lol.

[Nihilus]

Dude wtf are you talking about? Get normal already, you seem very very creepish.

You think mystery is some like of "god" and everything he says is the bare none TRUTH and nothing can be agains it.


That is not reality, reality is that there are alot of guys who are probably WAY BETTER than any mPUA you'll ever meet.

What, you gonna say a guy who have fucked 400 girls "sucks at the game" ? While sitting there yourself, a KJ who have 5 lays in his entire life?

Dont u fucking realize that this is about getting more MANLY, more confident and enjoying life more? Not counting IOI and boosting your fucking ego validation?


And btw, REAL IOIs is often when the girl is quiet and attentive, Ive seen this 1000 times infield, because she becomes SO inside her head and microanalyzing when she is meeting a REAL alpha male so she becomes self consious and stiffled, EXACTLY as many of us do when we meet a real stunning 10, we become stiff and loose confidence.


Im not bashing down on MM or anything, Im just saying that its not BULLETPROOF reality and everything else is FALSE, ANYONE who is out in field will know this, jesus christ you sound like a real fucking KJ weirdo worshipping Mystery and everything he writes, just get fucking normal already.


You sound like you have some deep mental issues, you are TOO snowed in on PUA material and you should really relaxed a little bit, jesus christ.

And I can say you view your friend like a god. Same argument, though worshipping your friend like that is a biiit more closer to the definition of creepy ;) . Though you dont have any proof of your friend having sex with 200 women, now you are implying other people have 400. Arbitrary numbers is obvious.

and btw, REAL IOIs is often when the girl is quiet and attentive, Ive seen this 1000 times infield, because she becomes SO inside her head and microanalyzing when she is meeting a REAL alpha male so she becomes self consious and stiffled, EXACTLY as many of us do when we meet a real stunning 10, we become stiff and loose confidence. Not really, like VA manual crystal clearly states, showing attention, throwing hair back is a bit more attentive, not reacting enough and being just enough polite isnt exacly a IOI. More arbitrary numbers of 1000 though with nothing to back it up, by this deduction its more likely you are the keyboard jockey. calm down, relax. We dont become stiff and loose confidence, and neither do attractive girls. They become attracted to PUA who know their material all the time, but unless they can also show investment in the PUA, its not going to cause anything to happen.

Bulletproof by the definition of having a gigantic majority of success, thats what MM is by its definition and facts. You havent gotten any proof yet, so we can assume you are wrong until you do. Relax, take a deeph breath, and just like all "naturals" who are appealing to emotions and hype of said style, it may take some time for some to realise, thats its not enough with just that, since you couldnt back it up with facts. Again, calm down with the insulting a bit, relax, then go get the facts to back it up. I know you got facts and of course arent going to refer to yourself what you know, that way, we can be assumed you arent appealing to consequences and emotions. Self-deception is a process of denying or rationalizing away the relevance, significance, or importance of opposing evidence and logical argument. Self-deception involves convincing oneself of a truth (or lack of truth) so that one does not reveal any self-knowledge of the deception.

You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

[Nihilus]

Basicly whats going on right here with you is that you are basing your sense of reality entirely on the MM method and the MM book. So if anyone says ANYTHING else, you have blindspots for it.

You dont NEED to get VISUAL IOIs to fuck a girl.


So, how do u explain my friend who fucks like CRAZY, (Yes Ive seen it with my own eyes, Im just out for the truth here), and he says STUPID shit like "Hey girl, wanna come home and ride my snake?" but he is so fucking funny, in his reality and have a great vibe so they LOVE him, I see him AGAIN AND AGAIN fuck HOTTIES.

Now, show me PROOF of ANY mPUA fucking SUPER HOT GIRLS 5 nights a week and also several makeouts each night out where the whole club loves him? Because I do know dudes like that, dudes who break ALOT of the pua rules all the time and are OUT THERE living the LIFESTYLE, while you are sitting on your fucking keyboard talking about "IOIS" and "DOCUMENTED proof that there actually are guys out there getting laid without following MM???"


lol.

You do need visuals to get IOI as the source from testing of mysteries and thousands of students to back it up as you can check it up yourself and see the testing and amount of success and failure ratio of unlike what you did, was from yourself.If you have proof that that the another style of MM has failed, you are welcome to bring facts in it, a 3 poster that comes claiming years and thousands upon thousands of students, the deduction from it and years of the biology and psychology behind it with testing to back it up, then of course you can bring your facts and we will discuss it here. But if you cant, then I am afraid just like you would say that Elephants are in the room and they are the best type of PUA, then if you cant back it up, then its untrue.

Since you havent given any documentation on your claims on the Venusian artist forum. You are on this forum who has its statements not only on the frontpage but stickies and its routines and facts explaining, then if you cant bring proof then you are simple emotional rationalizing. The information that they are succeding comes from yourself, not from other sources and documented proof. Calm down and stop insulting thank you.

[nebuR]

Dont u fucking realize that you are out of your mind and delusional?

So since when did this community became the JUDGE of who is good at girls and not? Dont u fucking think there are naturals out there who are WAY BETTER than the waste majority of this community? If not, you gotta go out more dude, lol.


No, I cant show you "proof" that my friend bangs girls like a fucking machine, what? U want pics with him sticking his dick in the girls mouth? Why the fuck would I lie? He is one of my best friends, I KNOW him, I KNOW he fuck girls like crazy, damnit you are so fucking delusional its unhealthy.


99% of the guys in this community FAIL, do u really think its because they cant memorize routines? NO, its because they give up and they never reach that unstoppable confidence that just make you RELENTHLESS with girls.



I can see right away that you lack field experience, so let me ask you, whats your success in this game? whats your experience? How long have u been in it?

Well really, I know the answer already, your success is probably damn low, you dont go out much if even at all, you sit inside worshipping the MM and defending its theories on dicussion boards agains peoeple who actually are out there living the life.

Ive seen you in other threads also, 5people agains you with 1000% stronger arguments than you have, but you just cant seem to fucking see it.


So, you are so fucking about talking about proof, show me aproof that you are not a KJ, NOW.

[nebuR]

You do need visuals to get IOI as the source from testing of mysteries and thousands of students to back it up as you can check it up yourself and see the testing and amount of success and failure ratio of unlike what you did, was from yourself.If you have proof that that the another style of MM has failed, you are welcome to bring facts in it, a 3 poster that comes claiming years and thousands upon thousands of students, the deduction from it and years of the biology and psychology behind it with testing to back it up, then of course you can bring your facts and we will discuss it here. But if you cant, then I am afraid just like you would say that Elephants are in the room and they are the best type of PUA, then if you cant back it up, then its untrue.

Since you havent given any documentation on your claims on the Venusian artist forum. You are on this forum who has its statements not only on the frontpage but stickies and its routines and facts explaining, then if you cant bring proof then you are simple emotional rationalizing. The information that they are succeding comes from yourself, not from other sources and documented proof. Calm down and stop insulting thank you.

Jesus christ you do realize that the vast majority of guys using MM or ANY method fail miserably, right?

You gotta realize that this game is NOT about counting IOIs and some awesome DHV stories and techniques, this game is in its core essence about becoming a dude who have such a presence and confidence that girls are just DRAWN to him, these guys do exist, and learning to become one of them is possible, but it takes time and dedication.


If you are going down this path really thinking you can get your calibration and timing down 100% and then bang whatever girl you like, its set up for FAILURE and fuck ups in your self esteem.


There are no proof for MM really, its just a method for newbies to follow, thats IT. ALOT of the evolitionary psychology behind it have been proven wrong over and over again by scientists, however its GREAT because it gives you CONFIDENCE and MOTIVATION, thats about it.

I also know some people who get ALOT more and faster sucess by other methods and followings, Im not one of them, I like to have a manual, but I do know guys who dont and they do GREAT with other methods.


Stop worshipping one simple method so damn much, its just weird and you stink KJ.

[Nihilus]

Dont u fucking realize that you are out of your mind and delusional?
So since when did this community became the JUDGE of who is good at girls and not? Dont u fucking think there are naturals out there who are WAY BETTER than the waste majority of this community? If not, you gotta go out more dude, lol.
No, I cant show you "proof" that my friend bangs girls like a fucking machine, what? U want pics with him sticking his dick in the girls mouth? Why the fuck would I lie? He is one of my best friends, I KNOW him, I KNOW he fuck girls like crazy, damnit you are so fucking delusional its unhealthy.
99% of the guys in this community FAIL, do u really think its because they cant memorize routines? NO, its because they give up and they never reach that unstoppable confidence that just make you RELENTHLESS with girls.


I can see right away that you lack field experience, so let me ask you, whats your success in this game? whats your experience? How long have u been in it?
Well really, I know the answer already, your success is probably damn low, you dont go out much if even at all, you sit inside worshipping the MM and defending its theories on dicussion boards agains peoeple who actually are out there living the life.
Ive seen you in other threads also, 5people agains you with 1000% stronger arguments than you have, but you just cant seem to fucking see it.

So, you are so fucking about talking about proof, show me aproof that you are not a KJ, NOW.

This community become the judge by biological and psychological professors reports, books and facts tested and judged carefully to see what works and what does not work.

You can have 200 people against me, they couldnt bring arguments to show that the RSD instructor video for example was bad, or the picture of the student in it. OR the steel guy doing suicide backing it up. The facts were still there which they couldnt outargue.

99% of the guys in this community FAIL
Another arbitrary random number with nothing to back it up. You havent given arguments nor facts to back yourself up, which could essentially just be an insult. You are in a mental condition of appealing to consequences and relying on emotions is an argument that concludes a premise (typically a belief) to be either true or false based on whether the premise leads to desirable or undesirable consequences. This is based on an appeal to emotion and is a form of logical fallacy, since the desirability of a consequence does not address the truth value of the premise.

Pity the sinner and hate the sin. You did admit to be wrong on some ocations like you couldnt bring facts that backed up that your friend had sex with that amount of girls. Its not about lying, its about bringing deduction so that people just like in the quote I did above, isnt having that mental condition.

I dont need to anymore then you need to prove you arent even after you got proven wrong by not having any facts nor documentations to prove it wrong.

[Nihilus]

Jesus christ you do realize that the vast majority of guys using MM or ANY method fail miserably, right?

You gotta realize that this game is NOT about counting IOIs and some awesome DHV stories and techniques, this game is in its core essence about becoming a dude who have such a presence and confidence that girls are just DRAWN to him, these guys do exist, and learning to become one of them is possible, but it takes time and dedication.


If you are going down this path really thinking you can get your calibration and timing down 100% and then bang whatever girl you like, its set up for FAILURE and fuck ups in your self esteem.


There are no proof for MM really, its just a method for newbies to follow, thats IT. ALOT of the evolitionary psychology behind it have been proven wrong over and over again by scientists, however its GREAT because it gives you CONFIDENCE and MOTIVATION, thats about it.

I also know some people who get ALOT more and faster sucess by other methods and followings, Im not one of them, I like to have a manual, but I do know guys who dont and they do GREAT with other methods.


Stop worshipping one simple method so damn much, its just weird and you stink KJ.


Jesus christ you do realize that the vast majority of guys using MM or ANY method fail miserably, right? You are on a VA board using MM, unless you have serious facts to back it up, you are simply wrong, and ironicly enough, fall into the pejorative term rather then serious observation.

The game is so for you, but unless it have heavy success, then it fails in terms of picking up girls. Since the name pick up artist is about picking up girls since.....well the fact that the name insinuates and almost states it?



ALOT of the evolitionary psychology behind it have been proven wrong over and over again by scientists, however its GREAT because it gives you CONFIDENCE and MOTIVATION, thats about it.

Who are these evolutionary scientists? the ones that MM takes knowledge from is for example
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Selfish_Gene

and its not soley done by the writer itself, its deducted from the professors and scientist in it.

Now, what scientists do you have that says its been proven wrong?

I can say the same to you "Stop worshipping one simple method so damn much, its just weird and you stink KJ." stop worshipping your friends style so much, its just wierd and you stink KJ!

Again, brings facts into the discussion, we obviously arent going to follow something that unless proven by real documentation and not simpe word by word. You also contradict yourself, "I like to have a manual" yet claiming MM or ANY method fail miserably Calm down and stop the insults.

Appealing to emotions further falls you into the mental state of emotional rationaliztion, you are refering to your emotions here, because your asumption that its correct with nothing grounding to back it up. Psychology wise its more or less dangerous for your other areas of life because its tells of ones personality. My guess is that you havent bringed more facts to it, which would probably be more proof of this, but I cant really say until its done

[nebuR]

And by that you said basicly nothing.

Again, why have there been players thruout history who have been relenthless with women despite of breaking ALOT of PUA rules out there? Because you aint gonna tell me they havent exist, right?

I can see right away that you are not out in the field, hookups happen ALL THE TIME in the world, and its not because some guy successfully goes thru a1, a2, a3, c1, c2, c3, s1 , s2 , s3 alot of the times, its because they are CONFIDENT and love themselves, and sex is NATURAL, thats why it happends, not because some guys have learnt instincitvly to count IOIs, lol give me a fucking break.


Again, show me, who are you? how many girls have you banged? whats your experience in this game?



And no, alof of the things said in this community is absolutely NOT backed up by professors, there are ALOT of evidence agains sperm wars, red queen etc that this community is built upon.


This game is about going out, finding out what works for YOU and YOUR style and personality, NOT becoming a fucking robot counting IOIs.


You say that MM have a documented proof to get people laid, and yes, it does, but it also have proof that ALOT of guys have NOT getting laid by it, EXACTLY as alot of other methods.


You are dogmatic and dellusional, you dont listen to people and you have MASSIVE amount of blindspots, you are not arguing to get something out of it more than proving your beliefs (which are, as anyone who is actually out on field would say, terrible wrong), but you wont get that until you actually put this shit in practise.

[nebuR]

You are on a VA board using MM, unless you have serious facts to back it up, you are simply wrong, and ironicly enough, fall into the pejorative term rather then serious observation.

The game is so for you, but unless it have heavy success, then it fails in terms of picking up girls. Since the name pick up artist is about picking up girls since.....well the fact that the name insinuates and almost states it?





Who are these evolutionary scientists? the ones that MM takes knowledge from is for example
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Selfish_Gene

and its not soley done by the writer itself, its deducted from the professors and scientist in it.

Now, what scientists do you have that says its been proven wrong?

I can say the same to you "Stop worshipping one simple method so damn much, its just weird and you stink KJ." stop worshipping your friends style so much, its just wierd and you stink KJ!

Again, brings facts into the discussion, we obviously arent going to follow something that unless proven by real documentation and not simpe word by word.

Appealing to emotions further falls you into the mental state of emotional rationaliztion, you are refering to your emotions here, because your asumption that its correct with nothing grounding to back it up. Psychology wise its more or less dangerous for your other areas of life because its tells of ones personality.

Jesus christ do you lack social intelligence or something? Its fucking obvious im no WORSHIPPING my "Friends method", damn he doesnt even have a method, Im using it to make a POINT, the POINT is that there are guys out there having MASSIVE success without using some fucking method or relying on IOIs, they purely have MASSIVE confidence in themselves, they are funny and assertive and SEXUAL, and girls LOVE that shit.


Girl to man attraction is NATURAL, you really think the fucking cavewomen thaought to herself "ooh, this man has interesting stories, so I think im gonna get horny now" - NO, thats not how sex is working, she responds to POWER, CONFIDENCE, ASSERTIVENESS, not your fanzy routines or your well timed neg, damnit this is just so fucking redicilous.


Its guys like you who make this community seem very, VERY weird and creep people out, just fucking stop it already.

[Nihilus]

And by that you said basicly nothing.

Again, why have there been players thruout history who have been relenthless with women despite of breaking ALOT of PUA rules out there? Because you aint gonna tell me they havent exist, right?

I can see right away that you are not out in the field, hookups happen ALL THE TIME in the world, and its not because some guy successfully goes thru a1, a2, a3, c1, c2, c3, s1 , s2 , s3 alot of the times, its because they are CONFIDENT and love themselves, and sex is NATURAL, thats why it happends, not because some guys have learnt instincitvly to count IOIs, lol give me a fucking break.


Again, show me, who are you? how many girls have you banged? whats your experience in this game?



And no, alof of the things said in this community is absolutely NOT backed up by professors, there are ALOT of evidence agains sperm wars, red queen etc that this community is built upon.


This game is about going out, finding out what works for YOU and YOUR style and personality, NOT becoming a fucking robot counting IOIs.


You say that MM have a documented proof to get people laid, and yes, it does, but it also have proof that ALOT of guys have NOT getting laid by it, EXACTLY as alot of other methods.


You are dogmatic and dellusional, you dont listen to people and you have MASSIVE amount of blindspots, you are not arguing to get something out of it more than proving your beliefs (which are, as anyone who is actually out on field would say, terrible wrong), but you wont get that until you actually put this shit in practise.

Like I said, having isolated cases with a few successes does not constitute that its a good method, on the contrary. I can ask you how many you banged, but that certainly is not something to back up your method in the discussion, instead you take from deduction and observation from the majority. Thats why the style of method you use has failed miserely from the definition of success is not having minority one.

Bring out arguments why for example the selfish gene one is wrong, also bring out facts to back up why the evolutionary psychology was wrong with sources.

What MM has is showing a gigantic majority of successes, Like I said before: the majority of successes is something that I take definition of.

Again, I can say the same about you, same argument:

You are dogmatic and dellusional, you dont listen to people and you have MASSIVE amount of blindspots, you are not arguing to get something out of it more than proving your beliefs (which are, as anyone who is actually out on field would say, terrible wrong), but you wont get that until you actually put this shit in practise.

Though like my previous quote My guess is that you havent bringed more facts to it, which would probably be more proof of this, but I cant really say until its done which further proves that you are emotionally rationalizing.



Girl to man attraction is NATURAL, you really think the fucking cavewomen thaought to herself "ooh, this man has interesting stories, so I think im gonna get horny now" - NO, thats not how sex is working, she responds to POWER, CONFIDENCE, ASSERTIVENESS, not your fanzy routines or your well timed neg, damnit this is just so fucking redicilous.


Its guys like you who make this community seem very, VERY weird and creep people out, just fucking stop it already. Girls being attracted to the highest social status man is natural. Girls like social status it provides, proven and deducted by MM.

And I can say yet again the same about you: its guys like you who make this community seem very, VERY weird and creep people out, just stop it already.
its still merely an insult, while I told you plenty of times to calm down and stop insulting.




- You havent bringed any facts or sources for the evolutionary claim that biology and psychology MM is wrong. PLEASE would you kindlysay where do scientist actually state or imply this? This is a serious claim of course. What scientist and his report did you read to conclude this? like it was previously proven that you are in a mental state of appealing to consequences by not bringing facts to it, hopefully you wont do it again and provide some facts

[nebuR]

Dude you are really a weirdo arent you?

ANYONE who sees our little argument here can see who of us that are totally out in the air talking nonsense, wtf are you talking about? Evolutionary science?

Dude, just go out for 2 years straight and you will probably get a good sense of what game is all about, not relying your knowledge on ONE persons book, you are completely STUCK in your MM headspace, thats about it. Heres a fact, observeed from the REAL WORLD:

1. SOLID GAME like 5/5 doesnt really exist, NO ONE in the entire world can pick up ANY women he wants, and basing your esteem on that will fuck you up.

2. This game is about getting good with girls in GENERAL and a more attractive person, not learning how to be a master manipulator, this game doesnt work like that, if you feel like shit you wont have good access, 90% of this game is how you FEEL, the ENERGY you bring, your vibe, your "frame" of reality.

3. Guys gets laid ALL THE TIME despite of breaking pua methods ALL THE TIME.

4. Confidence is BY FAR the most attractive trait a man can have, REAL confidence, not "oh yeah well IM a pretty confident person", nope, CONFIDENCE in the way that "Wtf? afraid of talking to a little girl? are you kidding me? She is being higher value than me? are you kidding? HEY GIRL, LISTEN UP! ..." When you feel 100% ENTITLED that you are worthy of her, you will probably end up in bed together, like on EVERY LEVEL you feel that you deserve it, you are not nervous at all, no anxiety, arriving at that place, THATS what this game is about.

5. Microcalibration doesnt really exist, social situations have 3000000 different factors, counting IOIs and IODs will most likely fuck you up and you will eventually arrive at a really bad place, make you a frame control addict and all that shit.


Again, ANYONE who is really good at this will instantly see you are talking nonsense and using arguments from a 2nd hand knowledge, NOT 1st hand experience.


Now, you could answer this shit with "but but.. selfish gene... but but, evidence!! mm is right! mm is bulleproof and you cant break the rules!!" - Well go on, Im heading out to the club, you should too, lol.

[nebuR]

And again, you just hear what you wanna hear.

I have NEVER stated that MM is "wrong", jesus christ im hanging on a MM forum because I think its the most practical and best for me at this point at my life.

What I have said, is however, that you can break almost ALL THE RULES when you really have confidence and belief in yourself, and end up with hotties all the time.

Its about CONFIDENCE, smoothness, vibe and energy, NOT about superanalysing every move, bodyrocking or counting IOIs or some nerdy shit like that.