FR: Denver College Bar - Didn't Go So Well

[LivinThedream]

So last night I decided it would be fun to try and have some fun at a local college bar out here. Making things better is in our group we have this pivot who is AMAZING (she is HB9 herself, witty, and picks up women better than any guy I know). Anyway she was there to help out. But as it turns out it just was not working for me last night - right from the openers I was getting blown out:

Set 1:

(opener stolen from Juggler)
Me: "Hey guys you see that group over there (points to group), they say they are more fun than you - PLEASE prove them wrong"...

Obstacle: No reaction emotionally - others in the group pretty much same thing. Finally she says "I am from oklahoma visting so I'm not too familiar with this bar and scence."

Me: (and this is where I made a mistake becuae I negged the obstacle not the target) "Oklahoma? Ok I cant even talk to you anymore" (I smile) (she does not)

Her: Why dont you go back to your friends.

Me: Wow you really take your state seriously don't you?

Her: Yes I do - seriously go back.

(Eject)

WTF? This girl was MAYBE a 5. I realize I was negging the wrong person in the set. Was this just a shit test? Anyway - I move on.


Set 2: Later in evening

One of the girls in the group looks like a freaking twin of Ashlee Simpson - except her hair is blond. I come up to the group (I think again I screwed up here because I opened the target (Ashelee Simpson) and not her friends BUT I direct this question to the group:

Me: "Hey your friend here totally reminds me of someone....a celebrity."

Them: All rolling their eyes and looking at each other becuase she must get the Ashlee SImpson thing 100x a night.

Me: I got it! Ellen Degeneres. She gives me a DIRTY look. (hey she looked nothing like her but I was trying to turn the tables)

Her: That was a rude thing to say:

Me: What? I think she dresses well and is a good dancer. You know I love you! (smiles)

Her: Walks away from me

Me: Lovely meeting you (ejects)

WTF? I am thinking is this just something I am saying wrong or am I actually running into mega bitches tonight. I relize I didnt follow the process exactly BUT I kind of like Neg opening sometimes. In any event, I was saying all of this playfully while smiling - thoughts on why I ended on A1?

Now - I have to say, that hot pivot I was telling you about. OMG - shes like a magician - a damn player herself. She was helping out one of my other buddies who was talking to this other set. They werent really giving him IOIs then she comes over to the group looking smoking hot - she starts talking to my buddies target (I later asked her what she said). She was telling the girl how she had been trying to date this guy forever blah blah but he wouldnt go out with her then she was BSing - FREAKING GOLD. Targets interest in my buddy goes up 500% instantaneuly IOIS start getting displayed. He winds up number closing her. It's amazing the credibility a girl pivot has over a guy wing.

I am taking this pivot out again - and I will post a pic of her so you all can see her.

[Orleans]

There's obviously something wrong with your non-verbals


WTF? I am thinking is this just something I am saying wrong or am I actually running into mega bitches tonight. I relize I didnt follow the process exactly BUT I kind of like Neg opening sometimes. In any event, I was saying all of this playfully while smiling - thoughts on why I ended on A1?


If neg openers aren't working for you why do you "kind of like" them?

[Arborian]

man it just seems like you are being kind of creepy and canned.

do you appear nervous when you are going up to these groups? bitches are like lionesses... they sense your fear... haha

[LivinThedream]

Neg Openers work for me sometimes - plus its certainly different than an opinion opener.

What did I say that was creepy exactly? My non-verbals are fine - except that I wasnt leaning back when talking - it was too loud.

[Arborian]

no offense to juggler, from whom you stole that pickup line, but... the whole "that group over there..." bit sounds canned and really... gay as hell.

it sounds like you thought about that in a dark corner of your room while masturbating and playing world of warcraft.

for anyone mildly socially concious or intelligent, it is an awkward way of saying "can i get into you guys group?"

like honestly, if i was in a group of people, and someone came up to us with that line, I would tell them to take that week shit out of here. its not pertinent to any situation, and if people pick up on it, then they will feel like they are a target or being manipulated.

your other opener "your friend reminds me of someone". if that twat even closely resembles ashley simpson, you KNOW she's heard that a million times. there goes the interest. granted they might have been shit testing you with "that was rude", but it might have been better if in passing, you said something like "ashley simpson?" and then looked for a second, and were like... no... and walked away with a smile. its less comfrontational.

it just seems like youre walking into these groups and throwing out creepy one liners. perhaps try something more pertinent to the situation. and it seems like you were being a little serious. i would neg her on being ashley simpson than compliment.

[Orleans]

I'm still willing to bet it's your non-verbals.

[LivinThedream]

Im not sure about the non verbals - but geez if I cant even use a direct opener and everyone shits on opinion openers looks like its back to the old "hi" method - fuck that.

[MikeNYC]

these are mostly calibration and social skills issues. A cool social guy (or a good pua) can make the openers you used work so its not what you're saying even though its not following the MM model.

learning how to open is just a matter of practicing a lot, being non reaction seeking, and understanding the social rules around it (which is social skills and calibration).

how often are you practicing and for how long?

[LivinThedream]

I go out every Friday and Saturday - I can't during the week with school (though done with the MBA in dec - hell yeah)

[Gordo]

Some of these guys are right about the "heard it 1000x times," though a little harsh. It's easy to say now without the social pressure, but "Ashlee? Wow you made a scene up their at McDonalds. Did you get deported for that?" You can laugh at her for that and it's like you're negging her for something she didn't even do.

I use the celebrity thing often, and it's a fun conversation for the group. But I never let the person be proud of who they resemble. Never let the target answer first: "Everyone looks a little like a celebrity, who do people tell you you look like?" Let them all answer, come up with something fun but not serious for yourself (like JJ Walker if you're a white guy, etc). When the target answers, change your whole mood and say flatly, "I don't see that." Long pause, then laugh. Or just make fun of her for thinking that and call her that and neg the celebrity like Ashlee above. I go over the top with this because you're not negging your target really, but they sorta feel it since they've identified themselves with this character. They always seem to push or slug my arm when I get to this point. Kino esc back by hugging them to ease their celebrities emotional pain.

[The Judge]

Some of these guys are right about the "heard it 1000x times," though a little harsh. It's easy to say now without the social pressure, but "Ashlee? Wow you made a scene up their at McDonalds. Did you get deported for that?" You can laugh at her for that and it's like you're negging her for something she didn't even do.

I use the celebrity thing often, and it's a fun conversation for the group. But I never let the person be proud of who they resemble. Never let the target answer first: "Everyone looks a little like a celebrity, who do people tell you you look like?" Let them all answer, come up with something fun but not serious for yourself (like JJ Walker if you're a white guy, etc). When the target answers, change your whole mood and say flatly, "I don't see that." Long pause, then laugh. Or just make fun of her for thinking that and call her that and neg the celebrity like Ashlee above. I go over the top with this because you're not negging your target really, but they sorta feel it since they've identified themselves with this character. They always seem to push or slug my arm when I get to this point. Kino esc back by hugging them to ease their celebrities emotional pain.

Holy shit, this is probably the best post I've ever read on this forum. I was pissing my pants at work while reading this. Hil-arious!

Anywayyyyyyyyyyy, everyone's points/replies are really good, but one little thing to add. The whole "...I can't even talk to you" line is awesome (I use it all the time) but ONLY WHEN I THINK A GIRL'S ATTRACTED TO ME. Busting this line out so soon gives a girl a great reason to blow you out. Why would she want to talk to you? You're just some sleazo at a bar...

Another thing, where are your FTCs dude? It makes a huge difference...

I don't even need to see you in the field to know you're coming off a creepy pick up artist. Using these creeper lines will set all kinds of alarms off (honestly dude, I'd probably peg you as a MySpace stalker or pedophile or some shit if you dropped these openers on me). Try openers more congruent to your avatar and ground them so they don't seem canned/corny/creepy.

Also, you need to dominate the sets. Don't immediately ASK a question to a set; tell them who their stupid friend looks like...they're in YOUR reality.

[Tamer]

your openner is TERRIBLE. its a nonspecific hoop that you are asking them to jump through. YOU are telling THEM to entertain you. They dont have any attraction for you yet and you have not proven yourself to them. Why would they want to stop what they are doing and entertain you a stranger?

[BangBang]

your openner is TERRIBLE. its a nonspecific hoop that you are asking them to jump through. YOU are telling THEM to entertain you. They dont have any attraction for you yet and you have not proven yourself to them. Why would they want to stop what they are doing and entertain you a stranger?
I'd have to agree with Tamer here. The only way I can see that opener working would be:

1. You're social proof is through the ROOF. (Even then I'm not sure)

or

2. You open set 1, run game, temp. eject, open set 2, run game (where set one can see you), temp eject, return to set 1, <opener here>

That way, not only would it have a better chance of working, it makes sense. From there you've also got the option to merge the sets.

[LivinThedream]

You guys saw that this was from almost 6 months ago right? This was when I just started.

[Tamer]

oops didnt notice

[BangBang]

You guys saw that this was from almost 6 months ago right? This was when I just started.
Saw it pop to the top of the list when Tamer posted. Admittedly I didn't look at the OP date.

Although good advice none-the-less. :rolleyes:

[Decibel]

You guys saw that this was from almost 6 months ago right? This was when I just started.
I noticed that, and am glad you're still here in the community.

[DipsetByrdGang]

i wanna see what the pivot looks like u said u were gonna put up a pic

[LivinThedream]

Not sure why it matters - but here is a pic.

http://www.geocities.com/mscdman/KS.txt