Mystery on VH1 and why the community isn't ruined

[Lovedrop]

Sorry to be so busy lately, I've been sequestered doing product development out in California. So I've had my head down writing, filming, recording, etc.

As you guys have heard - and as has been rumored for months - Mystery is going to be on a VH1 show. In fact, an entire season has already been filmed and we are expecting that it will be very successful.

This show was in the works from even before the Savoy days, and the contracts were in place a long time ago - so please don't "blame" Venusian Arts for the fact that this TV show is going to happen. We had no power to stop it by the time we had taken control of things.

Not that it's a bad thing. It's actually funny to me when I hear people whining that somehow pickup is going to be "RUINED" because "EVERYONE" will find out about the community. This is a sad, tired argument that used to be lobbed at Style when he was about to release his book THE GAME.

The truth is, women will always be trying to hook men, and men will always be trying to hook women. The cover of every men's magazine, every month, promises some sort of tips about how to get women. The cover of every women's magazine, every month, promises some tips on how to get men.

Try to argue with this: Everyone knows that if you are in really good shape, that you will have a lot more sexual options. If you work out in the gym, keep the fat off, and build your muscles, you will DEFINITELY do better with the ladies. Everyone in the world knows this. But notice how most men STILL DON'T TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT?

I am willing to bet that the knowledge of pickup will never reach the same levels as the knowledge of health and fitness.

Most guys don't like the idea of pickup. They think it is weird, or immoral, or that it could never work. Of the few guys who DO believe that pickup could work, most will never actually practice it. (JUST LIKE guys who don't go to the gym even though they know it will drastically improve their love life.)

So don't be a little bitch all scared that somehow Style's book or Mystery's VH1 show are somehow going to totally destroy the community. It's just not true and in fact it's a bit paranoid.

In fact, if you turn on VH1 right now you will probably see a show about some "ladies man" guy showing dorky guys how to meet girls. VH1 airs shows like that ALL THE TIME and in fact I just saw one recently.

One more thing - canned material is not supposed to be copied from other guys. You are supposed to MAKE UP YOUR OWN CANNED MATERIAL. So even if all the canned material in the whole world was exposed, and every guy in the world memorized it, it still wouldn't hurt you because you are supposed to make up your own canned material. GET IT? So what could possibly get exposed that would hurt your game in any way? Please tell me you aren't still out there using the best friends test.

Furthermore, once you reach mastery level of the game, like I definitely have, you don't have to use any canned material at all. I run my game COMPLETELY FREE-FLOW - it's just my attitudes and personality. People would never guess that I am a pickup artist. I just come off like a cool guy. The same should be true of you... so there is nothing to "expose".

Don't get paranoid about the TV show, it won't hurt the game in any way. A year from now I will still be able to walk into any bar and pull cute girls. Some things will never change. Being attractive will not suddenly go out of vogue because of some TV show.

[Satan]

Thanks for taking the time to adress this issue. Nobody watches VH1 anyways.

Satan

ps. calling yourself a master is a bit egosistical...it's an artificial definition.

[khenak]

I don't really know about the metaphor to going to the gym. In my college, almost every decent looking guy works out and try to take care of their body. But then again, pick up is way harder than working out. To be able to conquer AA is probably five times harder than benching your own weight. Working out is about physical pain and sarging is about spiritual pain. We all know that spirtual pain is way harder to handle than physical.

[junkyfungus]

Yeah good post Love Drop.

I say more power to the VA Crew and all it's endeavors. I posted it in another thread that if you just get out into the field and sarge/learn/sarge by the time the show comes out you should have a good foundation built.

Game has always been around. I'm sure old Casanova stirred up some controversy and "ruined" it for many a man when he wrote his memoirs.

It's only ruined if you have a weak frame to begin with. The strong will rise above and prosper and will find opportunity where others will only see defeat.

Be one of the strong!

[NiteTime78]

I agree with LoveDrop except for the working out comparision. Like khenak said, pick up is ALOT harder than working out. When you decide to get into shape, you have total control over the outcome. Pickup isn't quite that simple. I've always been in good shape, it didn't help me much. I've studied pickup for 2 years reading various ebooks and I have used some of the techniques and strategies in the field with very little success so far. I takes alot more practice than most newbies realise.

I hope the show is very successful. I'm going to tell my friends and family about it and let them know I was part of it before it went mainstream. I'm not at all afraid of the show becoming popular because I wasn't getting laid before discovering VA and I hasn't gotten me laid since, so It hasn't taken a thing from me.

The guys that have gotten laid from using VA should be fine. They've obviously internalized the proper steps to take without fucking up. So in my opinion, noone's losing anything.

[Navy236]

Sorry to be so busy lately, I've been sequestered doing product development out in California. So I've had my head down writing, filming, recording, etc.

What a lovely, student-funded lifestyle.

As you guys have heard - and as has been rumored for months - Mystery is going to be on a VH1 show. In fact, an entire season has already been filmed and we are expecting that it will be very successful.

So successful that "everyone" will know how this game works.

This show was in the works from even before the Savoy days, and the contracts were in place a long time ago - so please don't "blame" Venusian Arts for the fact that this TV show is going to happen. We had no power to stop it by the time we had taken control of things.

Mystery signed the contract himself, did he not? Didn't you? I didn't know they had indentured servitude in Hollywood. Good to know that this was done against your will.


Not that it's a bad thing. It's actually funny to me when I hear people whining that somehow pickup is going to be "RUINED" because "EVERYONE" will find out about the community. This is a sad, tired argument that used to be lobbed at Style when he was about to release his book THE GAME.

This is phase two of the same process: the book, the reality show, then the movie, etc. The cumulative effect of this is devastating to those who want secrecy. Defenders of the stock market bubble said the doomsayers were wrong for years, and then 2000 hit.


The truth is, women will always be trying to hook men,

They were trying to do that in 1998 as well. If it didn't help them then, why should this fact suddenly help them now?


and men will always be trying to hook women.

Men were trying that too in 1998, but it didn't seem to help either.


The cover of every men's magazine, every month, promises some sort of tips about how to get women. The cover of every women's magazine, every month, promises some tips on how to get men.

And every website seems to make similar promises these days.

Try to argue with this: Everyone knows that if you are in really good shape, that you will have a lot more sexual options. If you work out in the gym, keep the fat off, and build your muscles, you will DEFINITELY do better with the ladies. Everyone in the world knows this. But notice how most men STILL DON'T TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT?

Men don't take advantage of it at all times, but many men are fitness-conscious. Still others already have girlfriends or don't feel the need to improve their options since they are already satisfied. It's not "game" to tell a guy to lift weights, either. Killing a method that required a few witty routines and replacing it with hard labor is not exactly an equal exchange.

Many men also haven't internalized just how much of an edge weightlifting is. Still others aren't physically capable of doing it, even if they look healthy on the surface. Bad analogy. The better analogy is the card-counting one since it doesn't have a physical component. How many card-counters are beating the casinos these days?


I am willing to bet that the knowledge of pickup will never reach the same levels as the knowledge of health and fitness.

It doesn't have to for it to devalue the methods. Being called out in field will destroy a PUA's chances, but being "called out" in the gym won't make a bodybuilder's muscles disappear. Again, bad analogy.


Most guys don't like the idea of pickup. They think it is weird, or immoral, or that it could never work. Of the few guys who DO believe that pickup could work, most will never actually practice it. (JUST LIKE guys who don't go to the gym even though they know it will drastically improve their love life.)

This is a lot less work than weightlifting. If it was never workable for most guys, it was never the solution people thought it was. If it IS the solution it's marketed to be, then the secret is getting out and it's devalued. Guys don't like the idea of it because they don't want to confront what women are really like. Seeing that on video, however, rather than reading about it in The Game, is going to get the message home a lot more effectively.

No one considers this, but what if it goes the other way and we learn that it wasn't the methods at all, but the fact that they were being used by guys rich enough to afford workshops who were actually getting laid with looks and money? Video is a much more accurate medium than text for demonstrating this.


So don't be a little bitch all scared that somehow Style's book or Mystery's VH1 show are somehow going to totally destroy the community. It's just not true and in fact it's a bit paranoid.

Nice little insult directed at people who spent thousands learning "secret" info and who might be peeved that the secret is getting out. That the insult is coming from the person who profits most from the secret getting out is even more telling.

I would say men who think that the methods won't be further devalued (they are already markedly devalued, which is why you need money/job/car/etc. to make them work now), is in denial.


In fact, if you turn on VH1 right now you will probably see a show about some "ladies man" guy showing dorky guys how to meet girls. VH1 airs shows like that ALL THE TIME and in fact I just saw one recently.

Each of these shows contributes to the information getting out there. They aren't isolated incidents, but part of a collective process by which picking up women is hitting the mainstream. It's not like everything reset to the pre-Style days just because there are some more of the public left to inform. Style's book hasn't even been out two years.

Do the men here think they might have some advantage if they could take these methods back in time and use them in say 1994? If so, why?


One more thing - canned material is not supposed to be copied from other guys. You are supposed to MAKE UP YOUR OWN CANNED MATERIAL

A guy doesn't have to pay a guru to be told to do that, or to do that.


So even if all the canned material in the whole world was exposed, and every guy in the world memorized it, it still wouldn't hurt you because you are supposed to make up your own canned material. GET IT?

As more men do this, and get laid, what replaces the women who lay them? Do the women become "sexual milking cows" who fuck all day and night until every guy with game gets his lay? Or is the chick you would have gamed busy fucking the last guy to game her and in love with him so you don't even have a shot?

With extra men in the game, either you can't get her because she's already gamed, or he can't keep her because game doesn't keep them.


So what could possibly get exposed that would hurt your game in any way? Please tell me you aren't still out there using the best friends test. [quote]

What hurts is the structure being released. The SAT people used to have this argument, that the test changes every year, so you can't study for it. The SAT prep course people point out, correctly, that if the test didn't adhere to a certain structure, you wouldn't be able to compare scores from different years, so there obviously is a structure.

As for what can hurt one's game? Oh, let's say a couple is on their honeymoon, watching the show "for laughs" and the bride starts hearing the routines that were used on her to "game" her. Guys who are stuck in LTRs won't have any escape from this or defense against it. Daddy finds out, and it's "you did WHAT to my precious little angel?"

It sounds like when you're trying to recruit students, this is an easy method to learn and implement, but when you're trying to allay fears of overexposure, it becomes so difficult that 95 percent of men could never make it work.

Which is it? The 95 percent failure rate that makes the method weak, or the high success rate that makes overexposure inevitable?

[quote]Furthermore, once you reach mastery level of the game, like I definitely have, you don't have to use any canned material at all. I run my game COMPLETELY FREE-FLOW - it's just my attitudes and personality.

Or his money, his status, connections to Hollywood, etc. If it's attitude and personality he'd be getting the same chicks when he's 80 that he gets now.


People would never guess that I am a pickup artist. I just come off like a cool guy.

Cool guys don't blow their own horn so loud they wake the neighbhors. If the AFC at your table has learned what the methods are, he can fill the chick in on what you're doing, as can her dad, her brother, best friends, etc.

The same should be true of you... so there is nothing to "expose".

If there is nothing to expose, there was nothing to teach and nothing to sell.


Don't get paranoid about the TV show, it won't hurt the game in any way. A year from now I will still be able to walk into any bar and pull cute girls.

Sure, by flashing cash and showing them the TV show that is based on your life. That doesn't transfer so easily to the rank-and-file, but they'll learn that soon enough as they try to replicate the results of the gurus who run "hot game."

Some things will never change. Being attractive will not suddenly go out of vogue because of some TV show.

What will change is that what is required to be attractive will be even more than it was in the past, since more and more guys will meet the old definition. Just like it was a lot easier to become a chess champion in 1895 than in 1995 because the moves played back then were far weaker.

[Fresh]

So.... do they call you Navy because every day you take in three square meals, and all the rough gay sex you can handle?

/Sorry
//Not Really
///Obligated to Troll your Trolling
////Could muster a point by point argument as well, but this is faster

[JimSmith]

I do agree with the fact that the girls will be harder/smarter about it if they are aware of this "pick up artist" tactic. The pick up lines they are obviously exposed to. Mainly it won't matter to guys that are already good, but the guys starting off will have a tougher uphill battle.

For example time constraints or opinion openers can be something detectable and made harder to open with. So dating is just going to have to evolve again if too many girls catch on. Just like the 3 day rule to wait before calling is too cliche these days.

To say that exposing this to the media public is not going to make a difference is ridiculous, but to say that it will ruin the game is ridiculous to. Personally i think it would be better for them not to have it go mainstream, just like how Style chose to not make the movie about The Game come out.

[Nightflex]

Good points Navy, as an AFC I won't even try any canned routines cuz this who idea of canned material being exposed has added another fear to my AA. Now I don't think it's worth it because I wanted to rely on canned then make my own.. I won't be able to take that step ever to get to a level where I wanted to. More people will refer to these terms and will know what's really going on.. will be easier to search out websites, bootcamps and forums for such material and the GURU's who once stood by us to teach will stand by to make profits while we will rott like the olden days.

[Greystoke]

What will change is that what is required to be attractive will be even more than it was in the past, since more and more guys will meet the old definition.

Navy236. Go out and get laid. The fact that you write such long posts imply that you dont have a life away from your keyboard.

Thanks lovedrop for filling in the details. I look forward to watching the VH1 show and seeing Mystery demonstrate his method. It would be easier than buying the DVD set sold by Savoy and his company.

[666]

Some of you beginner guys are already fearing something before even trying canned material.

Then try it after the show's been on air.

The next thing you know you'll realise it's not what you say but how you say it.

So even if the girl's been approached by the same pickup lines or whatever, your delivery will make you stand out.

And there's always the awesome damage control tactics to be learned.

To learn the latter, seriously, get hold of Mystery's programmes or DYD's Approaching Women and Mastery. He talks about this sort of shit amongst other likeminded dating gurus.

Who the hell watches VH1 anyway? Who's gonna listen that Mystery will pickup your sister/girlfriend? And why are some so hung up on the idea of guys making money out of PU? Is $2000-$2500 a limit that everyone voted for? Didn't Style "expose" the community which in essence brought more people under its wing and women ... well, they're what they were thousands of years ago - a bit more sophisticated and socialised, but they're still women.

Learn the psychology, not just the canned robotic tactics. It's deep and so f*cking fascinating.

There's no such thing as fear. It's all in your head. Go use whatever material you want: they're just training wheels and who cares if you get blown out? You scared? Failing is a process of learning to master this sh*t.

[666]

Nothing's changed what is considered as attractive. It's not a choice.

Most of it is non-verbal cues. Sexual communication. Character traits. Attitudes, beliefs, and other attributes. How you communicate these to attract a women is up to you - no PU TV show will change what the nature has "designed" for all us to pass out genes to future generations.

Don't be afraid and go out and get laid.

Period :)

[Navy236]

Navy236. Go out and get laid. The fact that you write such long posts imply that you dont have a life away from your keyboard.

Great advice from the guy who READ those posts LOL

I'd take his advice, but now that I'm 87 years old and have fucked 80,000 women, I really need a break if it's okay!

[Navy236]

Some of you beginner guys are already fearing something before even trying canned material.

Then try it after the show's been on air.

The next thing you know you'll realise it's not what you say but how you say it.

So even if the girl's been approached by the same pickup lines or whatever, your delivery will make you stand out.

And there's always the awesome damage control tactics to be learned.

To learn the latter, seriously, get hold of Mystery's programmes or DYD's Approaching Women and Mastery. He talks about this sort of shit amongst other likeminded dating gurus.

Who the hell watches VH1 anyway? Who's gonna listen that Mystery will pickup your sister/girlfriend? And why are some so hung up on the idea of guys making money out of PU? Is $2000-$2500 a limit that everyone voted for? Didn't Style "expose" the community which in essence brought more people under its wing and women ... well, they're what they were thousands of years ago - a bit more sophisticated and socialised, but they're still women.

Learn the psychology, not just the canned robotic tactics. It's deep and so f*cking fascinating.

There's no such thing as fear. It's all in your head. Go use whatever material you want: they're just training wheels and who cares if you get blown out? You scared? Failing is a process of learning to master this sh*t.

This is my LAST post until the VH1 boards open up, since they're neutral. Once those boards are in place it will be a lot easier to explain what's really going on and about to happen. I admire the free speech here because it's rare, but I have to wonder how much Mystery has cashed in to reach the point where he allows it. Just the same, I don't want to keep pushing its limits because this board is about his method and it's his home.

For now, all I'll say is that the men here are stuck on the hammer-nail problem. They have a hammer (the method) and start looking at everything as if it were a nail. You assume that because some guys told you that PUAs get laid, that being a PUA is the way to still get laid.

Would you stay a PUA if all of a sudden you saw AFC men getting the 10s? That won't happen, but if the guy is something that isn't an AFC, and isn't a PUA, and is a type of guy who exists in reaction to all this stuff going mainstream, he'll be using theory that's as alien to you as PUA theory was to an AFC.

You can be talking about kino, comfort, negs, LMR, etc., and this new guy's biggest problem might be figuring out which hotel to fuck his 10 at with a method you never heard of and a structure you can't comprehend.

The road less traveled avoids the Red Queen.

[Boss]

If there is nothing to expose, there was nothing to teach and nothing to sell.

What will change is that what is required to be attractive will be even more than it was in the past, since more and more guys will meet the old definition.

The OBVIOUS thing, the thing those with an interest in selling obsolete material won't tell you, is that a new game has started, one with different rules and an entirely different paradigm. Just as the PUA exploited weaknesses in the AFC, it is now possible to exploit the PUA's weaknesses just as easily. Instead of getting into a pissing contest about which can be the best PUA, take a path less trodden and fly to the wire in front.

Since this new game involves AFC men ratting you out every chance they get, don't worry about the women remembering what they saw on television, because that clueless AFC next to you at the table won't be so clueless anymore.

-Navy236

I do agree with the fact that the girls will be harder/smarter about it if they are aware of this "pick up artist" tactic.

To say that exposing this to the media public is not going to make a difference is ridiculous

-JimSmith

Look at these forums, show me the valuable content. This thread has a ton of posts and views but nothing new on pickup. No one is going to share anymore. And they should't - it might end up on someones tv show.

-Equal

Picture Johnny cuddling with Mary on the couch. The show comes on and they teach the same Jealous GF line he used to open her 13 months ago. That'd be either really funny or really bad.

-wanderer

Not to mention all of the guys who have spent thousnads of dollars attending these bootcamps over the last few years. Where is the loyalty to them and the rest of us buying all of the books and cds for several undered dollars a pop. maybe Im just over reacting, but Ive seen alot of stuff go mainstream and get destroyed

-Tredd


I agree with them...This whole VH1 thing seems to define EXPLOITATION.


(relax guys getting enraged and arguing over the internet like an intenet geek is total AFC behavior...these are all just OPINIONS...so let's keep the peace.)

[Nightflex]

Problem is that nothing can be done now. We are too late to even be talking at this point and I don't want to disrespect any of the PUA's anywhere but they should've watched out for us. I guess I would have to figure my own game out this is all going to spill over. We should limit posting materials of all sort on these forums and links to other forums so if something new does hit the street, we can keep it underground.

[Randel Flagg]

It just more of the same commercial bullshit. Its not an art now its a buisness

[Trader]

Navy236,

Why are you against Lovedrop and VA making a living out of teaching a valuable skillset?

I think if someone adds value to your life, they deserve to be paid, it's respectful. Mystery should receive a residual income from the Mystery Method and VA for the rest of his life.

The fear in your post suggests you will not be able to develop the Pick Up skillset anyways...You continue to focus on how hard Pick Up is...As Tony Robbins says "What you focus on you will receive".

Best of luck...Try and chill out a bit :)

[Dynamism]

Boo-hoo. We won't be getting laid anymore. Everyone knows about PU now. It's all over. Where's my razor?

(I don't think so.)

[Dynamism]

It just more of the same commercial bullshit. Its not an art now its a buisness

Welcome to capitalism. :D Then, you'll just have to have enough inner game to get through it.

90% inner game with 10% MM can do wonders. Remember all those people watching VH1 don't have that much inner game (lots do obviously). And no amount of MM knowledge will help significantly if the inner game's not all there.

It's funny - all of a sudden this whole thing is becoming into a statistics game rather than it remaining a competition game.

[10Pin]

Boo-hoo. We won't be getting laid anymore. Everyone knows about PU now. It's all over. Where's my razor?

(I don't think so.)


I stole it...damn blood all over my keyboard mixed in with my tears...woe is me...end of the world...millenium bug...Tuxissa...Lincoln Burrows...Oedipa Maas...Keyser Soze

?


Why are you worrying about the future? Why punish yourself for something that hasn't yet happened? What will be will be. Wheels are in motion that you and I cannot do anything about. All we can do is make the most of the present moment.

FWIW, this is all inner game. And being shit-scared about being 'exposed' displays an inner game problem.

Come on, how many people who even spend $2500 on a bootcamp even come out as regular practising PUAs? We all know the game is played in field. Watching 30 minutes every week for 8 weeks is not going to create some killer competition that blows you out the water.

If your routine does get exposed, then this will force you to be creative. If there is one thing that the game has taught me it is to get out of your comfort zone. Who knows, it might even lead to people actually developing new theory and expanding the game?

Its funny to note how a lot of people who are criticising the lack of evolution in the community are the same people worried about 'their' routines getting stolen.

[Randel Flagg]

10 percent my ass.Common look at survivor how many fucken reality series followed that series tons almost all of the series up to naw. If this PUA series takes off some other PUA school will try to out do this one with another series letting even more information out than 10 percentrto get better commercial exposure. There are gonna be clones you fooling yourself not to believe it. Then It will become a spiral where all of our info is lost

[Lovedrop]

Oh and one more thing... I opened a girl once who heard the same opener three times (back when I used jealous gf opener etc) and I still fucked the girl.

So if you're scared of getting "called out" then you need to work on your frame control.

It's all a jedi mind trick, trust me.

[junkyfungus]

Like I posted on the first page of this thread:

The strong plow forward and continue to succeed, while the weak have already given up before they even got started.

[Enigma]

Lovedrop,

can you tell us more about the free "transparency" videos mentioned in the newsletter? When will they be released?

Thx!

[Boss]

forget it guys...the forum members will just mock you for being worried over the show...there is really nothing more you can do.

Everything is already in their favor...just be happy their only exploiting 1 method...not speed seduction not cocky funny not gunwitch not RSD...

I guess that AFC sitting next to you won't be so clueless anymore...

Im just happy that it's not exploited in my country...

don't worry guys there are still plenty of underground methods that are yet to be exposed...

[Dynamism]

It's a funny thing. You kinda learn to size people up and frankly it's very easy if the AFC sitting next to me is clueless or not.

Most of the time, in the past, as we speak, and in the future, they will remain clueless.

...And if they're not? I've got the skills to befriend them so maybe we can learn from each other.

How does that work? We all move ahead more successful than we have ever been. There is only regression when YOU do NOT have control over YOUR life.

[Maverick]

Nobody watches VH1 anyways.



ROFL!!! That's awesome

[Boss]

just imagine if Neil Strauss , David D. , Ross jeffries & Tyler D. started airing shows exposing the underground resources & methods...

The society will fall apart & a new game will emerge...

hopefully this new game won't be exploited.

There was a reason why the society was kept secret...over exposure will soon take it's toll...

I hope the other mPUAs don't copy mystery & start exploiting techniques & shit...

too bad if the society does fall apart in america...but the game was started in your country hopefully it won't end there or be exposed to AFCs in my country...

[Greystoke]

I hope the other mPUAs don't copy mystery & start exploiting techniques & shit...

Too late. This is already happening.

eg Style, Tyler Durden, Savoy, Herbal, Lance Mason, Mehow and so many small fish are ALL previous students of Mystery. And surprise surprise, they have all started their own business.


just imagine if Neil Strauss , David D. , Ross jeffries & Tyler D. started airing shows exposing the underground resources & methods...

So what? What's the negativity dude?
Neil Strauss has already exposed the community with his book.

David D regularly writes for men's health and is the BEST known of the gurus out there. Even better known than Mystery and he is the person who introduced Mystery to a lot of the aPUAs.

Ross Jeffries has been on tv shows and talked about his speed seduction.

TD is relatively unknown, apart of his The Game fame, but he is coming out with The Blueprint, a PUA book(not ebook) for release this year. His book can be preordered from Amazon.com under the name Owen Cook.

Every major writings of Mystery, Style and TD ARE FREE. Any chick can use the net and find them if they want to.

[Boss]

the negativity here is that over-exposure will cause the PUA community to fall apart...AFCs will be evolved...PUAs will become average...and a new game will emerge.

hopefully this new game won't end up on someones tv show for everyone to see.

let's face it...this PUA thing is no longer art they shouldn't be called pick-up artist they should be called pick-up businessmen.

continually exploiting resources will be the downfall of the community and a new breed of men with a new set of rules will EVENTUALLY take over...

over exposure & exploitation will bring underground resources to diminish...It began with the book the GAME now many are marketing this & that...now the M3 model will be shown on air for everyone to see...

can't you see!?

they won't stop! as long as money flows...

more and more students will be mentors...the average AFC will greatly diminish...

this is the birth of a new game...a revolution!

since everyone will not stop marketing more & more PUA mentors will be born out of AFCs...PUAs will become regular men & regular men will become AFPUA-average frustrated Pick-up artist...

this forum is dying out...doesn't that mean anything?

this is pointless the community will devolve into an old version of the GAME...because competition will increase everyday...& thousands & thousands of men are being converted in every single day...

If mystery keeps doing what he's doing & so does every other PUA(having their own show) what do you think will happen to the community?

why was it kept secret in the first place?

[Randel Flagg]

Boss: why was it kept secret in the first place[/I]?

Cuz he new he had something good that he know would turn a profit once it went mainstream and Strauss helped him out in the book. Im happy for him. My problem is once one reality series is released others will be also released. Reality series always come in two; so I'm sure there will be another former buisness partner that wants to compete. You know all of this shit about reading articles and pua books. I dont buy it. If I didnt know who David D was. I dont think that I would really kive a shit about his advice in a magazine. We know its valuable because of the community. But AFCs are more apt to read a sex column in Mens Health or Maxim by a woman.

See I goes back to that argument that woman are thiking a millon things at once; there always analyzing stuff. They maybe easy to be seduced, but there far from dumb. Come on, lesson 101 "Survival and replication" sound familiar? They will take this infrmation in.

Have you ever asked a woman about an old girlie TV show or a girlie book (a good portion of them are into Sex novels) from several months or years ago? Sorry, I ve studied quite a few of those shows and books and use them in a routine that I came up with. I've never not opened a chick with this information. Its one of my fall backs when other shit is not working. You'd be surprised, how many women remeber intimate details of stupid tv shows, books, movies. Its unbelieveable!

So the fact that only some shit will be released is fine. It in the future when you go to modify you game, cuz you have to and that shit has been released or some of your shit has been released. If it wasnt worried Id thread my routine up here and share it with my fellow PUAs because you guys have, beleve me, gave me some great shit. I wish there was another venue that we could do it on and not worry about exposure. The mystery shit im really not worried about. Ive been swayed back and forth by some really good arguments by some very kowledgeable PUAs over the last few days. I guess that it comes down to making each other better and building on the foundation that Maysery layed. However, I too have toiled long and hard refining my own shit that works money for me as most of you have, but Im apprehensive of posting it because of the current situation

And lets face it. Im not getting paid to give my shit to this community. I do because I enjoy the comraderie of the PUA community and the chance to share Ideas with other people with the same interest of getting better. Im probably not ever gonna be famous or have my own PUA website or school or have a reality series. The fact that this has gone from being a forum of great ideas from great people to a buisness venutre where the founders of the community rarely chat with the non VIP folk with out a price or being part of a VIP thread doesnt set well with me. How come befor the game it was all about sharing Ideas now five or six years later certain people have put themselves on a pedistal.

[Boss]

the negativity here is that over-exposure will cause the PUA community to fall apart...AFCs will be evolved...PUAs will become average...and a new game will emerge.

hopefully this new game won't end up on someones tv show for everyone to see.

let's face it...this PUA thing is no longer art they shouldn't be called pick-up artist they should be called pick-up businessmen.

continually exploiting resources will be the downfall of the community and a new breed of men with a new set of rules will EVENTUALLY take over...

over exposure & exploitation will bring underground resources to diminish...It began with the book the GAME now many are marketing this & that...now the M3 model will be shown on air for everyone to see...

can't you see!?

they won't stop! as long as money flows...

more and more students will be mentors...the average AFC will greatly diminish...

this is the birth of a new game...a revolution!

since everyone will not stop marketing more & more PUA mentors will be born out of AFCs...PUAs will become regular men & regular men will become AFPUA-average frustrated Pick-up artist...

this forum is dying out...doesn't that mean anything?

this is pointless the community will devolve into an old version of the GAME...because competition will increase everyday...& thousands & thousands of men are being converted in every single day...

If mystery keeps doing what he's doing & so does every other PUA(having their own show) what do you think will happen to the community?

why was it kept secret in the first place?

Right now...it seems that the community will eventually crumble due to the weight of over-exposure & exploitation of an art...for profit.

this is no longer art this is business...

the community is no longer secret...

some respected PUAs have become profit whores...

AFCs are being converted 10 times as fast...

girls are getting more & more knowledgeable...former DHV routines might become future DLVs

women are getting more & more smart on the community resources...the formerly hidden methods.

more PUAs = more mentors = more marketing exploitation = more exposure

=PUB -Pick-Up Businessmen...

=AFPUA -Average Frustrated Pick-Up Artist...

since AFC will greatly diminish it won't become so average...

=OFC -OldSchool Frustrated Chump...

If this keeps up PUAs will become too common...eventually a new GAME will arise...with a new set of rules...

Neil didn't just write the book...He opened the gates of business & the gates to hidden resources...too much exposure...

He built the bridge from AFC land to PUA land where some HB can see exploited methods...

Hopefully if a new secret community does arise it won't end up on some TV show...

[Rocco]

Oh and one more thing... I opened a girl once who heard the same opener three times (back when I used jealous gf opener etc) and I still fucked the girl....


And I would even say that you fucked the girl because of that.

[Greater]

Wow there seems to be a lot of guys bent out of shape over this.

When did art have to mean non-profit? Just because someone is making money off of something does not make wrong or bad. In fact usually the opposite as it means people see a value in this product.

As for the "secret" getting out and it ruining the game, thats just silly.
That is the same as saying the "secret" of marital arts are out and now every one will be an awesome fighter.

This stuff takes practice and hard work, just like every other skill set in life.

What you think just because this special comes out you will suddenly forget how to tell a story, or that body language will suddenly shift?

[blade]

Let me just say this: In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.

Now thats how it used to be in about five years there will be many men with two eyes and the land of the blind will no longer be called the land of the blind.

[Boss]

Let me just say this: In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.

Now thats how it used to be in about five years there will be many men with two eyes and the land of the blind will no longer be called the land of the blind.

DAMN RIGHT!

[Greystoke]

When martial arts become popularised in the US, did every man decide to learn martial arts and act like Bruce Lee?

Did kung fu, karate and JJ stop working?

If you watch Bruce Lee kick ass out of 10 other men, does it mean you cant' use the same technique and kick ass out of an AMOG?

More people now open martial arts schools than ever before. Does that make martial arts less effective? No. coz out of the thousands who have black belts in a martial art or many, there are millions, billions who dont know how to defend themselves.

So, Boss, with all due respect, stop your negativity here.

[Boss]

I hope your right...

[Randel Flagg]

The market is totally swamped with martial arts studios. It to has been watered down for 30 or 40 years. and you dont use martial arts to gat laid.

[Boss]

The market is totally swamped with martial arts studios. It to has been watered down for 30 or 40 years. and you dont use martial arts to gat laid.

yeah...pick-up is waaaaaaaay different...comparing them is irrelevant.

martial arts was never kept secret to begin with...was never like pick-up & never have been.

[Navy236]

Navy236,

Why are you against Lovedrop and VA making a living out of teaching a valuable skillset?

I think if someone adds value to your life, they deserve to be paid, it's respectful. Mystery should receive a residual income from the Mystery Method and VA for the rest of his life.

The fear in your post suggests you will not be able to develop the Pick Up skillset anyways...You continue to focus on how hard Pick Up is...As Tony Robbins says "What you focus on you will receive".

Best of luck...Try and chill out a bit :)

Just back here for one post after checking out this thread. Felt this should be addressed.

Trader isn't pro-capitalism, he's pro-MYSTERY. There are lots of guys in this community who provided as much or more theory yet didn't get paid that way. I doubt Trader would be defending their commercialism as strongly. Of course, Mystery should get paid for his work, but so should many other guys, not all of whom have because some brand names happeneed to take off. Is Trader in favor of level competition? When people can't post and can't advertise their products while their rivals can, that's hardly fair or beneficial to the consumer.

It'd be very interesting if someone organized all the pickup books by date of copyright and see who really came up with what, and when. Mystery was far from the only guy to develop the general theory, even if he put his own flavor on it through his method. This will become very clear in a world where truly new ideas are required, and only one guy instead of the 100 or more who contributed the original theory through message boards are getting paid to move it forward.

Oh, and scratch the VH1 boards, the IMDB boards are going to be where it's at. If you think word travels fast around these parts, you haven't seen anything until you've posted there about a show or an actor.

[The Duke]

Honestly people even if the show is popular I'm sure it won't ruin anything. Hell most people will forget the whole damn thing within a year. Like another poster said, it sure as hell takes more than a eight episode reality series to get good at the game. Watching UFC doesn't make you a fighter and niether will this make you a PUA. It just takes alot more effort than watching a show, it takes alot more effort than most people are willing to put into anything. (And I do mean anything.)

[TruePlayer]

Yeah, if the show gets really popular, and your set gets suspicious just saying in like "Yeah, my ex-girlfriend mentioned something about it. Guys who think that by learning magic tricks they'll get laid. *smile* Anyway..."

[Johnny_Favorite]

One more thing - canned material is not supposed to be copied from other guys. You are supposed to MAKE UP YOUR OWN CANNED MATERIAL. So even if all the canned material in the whole world was exposed, and every guy in the world memorized it, it still wouldn't hurt you because you are supposed to make up your own canned material. GET IT? So what could possibly get exposed that would hurt your game in any way? Please tell me you aren't still out there using the best friends test.

Furthermore, once you reach mastery level of the game, like I definitely have, you don't have to use any canned material at all. I run my game COMPLETELY FREE-FLOW - it's just my attitudes and personality. People would never guess that I am a pickup artist. I just come off like a cool guy. The same should be true of you... so there is nothing to "expose".

Don't get paranoid about the TV show, it won't hurt the game in any way. A year from now I will still be able to walk into any bar and pull cute girls. Some things will never change. Being attractive will not suddenly go out of vogue because of some TV show.

The irony of these statements is alot of"PUA's" used other peoples routines before they became "PUA's". Fake it till you make it ring a bell? Even if you attend a boot camp you are given other peoples material to use.
How long does it take someone to reach the level of COMPLETELY FREE FLOW? Many current PUA's had the advantage of learning the game with very little community exposure. "The Game" came out and a lot more people became aware of "the community". Hypothetically speaking if the show were to be a huge success, it would be unrealistic to say things wouldn't be more difficult for someone who was still learning.

Ultimately, who are we to be bitter at Mystery for profiting from something he was instrumental in developing and being successful?
If I had created "The Johnny Favorite Method" and been offered a reality TV show, I wouldn't be too concerned about a bunch of aspiring PUA's on the internet. Have we all forgotten about social Darwinism and the whole basis for MM? Survival of the fittest. The alpha males genes will replicate-so the exposure of the community may truly weed out the alphas from the pretenders. That is nature and that is the nature of the game.

People can't be angry if they caught on late. If you got in the community because of "The Game", technically you're behind

[The Duke]

I think you might be right mate this may actually be a good thing for the community. If the improbable happens and it becomes a huge hit it will force people to improve their game. It will seed out the uncreative copiers and pretenders. Those who survive and use the experience to further there game will make the scene that much stronger

[college_man]

All,
I'm told by a friend interning at VH1 that this is more of a mockumentary than anything. Don't be suprised if the only attention the community receives from this is negative. Hopefully Mystery co. was given some creative control since the first cuts because I have a feeling the joke will be on them. This is all i can really say right now. Hopefully i'm wrong.

[Rick Shambles]

Guys are ALWAYS freaking out that PU is going to go "mainstream" and all the guys who were getting laid MORE than us in high school are going to learn it and we'll be right back where we started.

most guys have WAY too much pride to let someone else tell them there's a way to consistently meet and attract women.

learning how to be successful with women is NOT something that can be accomplished in a weekend, a week, or even a whole MONTH of dedicated study. Like any other artform/skill, it takes A LOT OF FUCKING TIME.

it's TRUE that more people are going to call you out on being a PUA when you're in the field because of the exposure it's getting. I got into the Game in December after reading Strauss' book, and have been asked if I've read "the Game" or if I'm a pick-up artist before. I've also had girls FINISH things like the Best Friends Test for me while I did it in set. But you know what--I have NEVER been blown out by someone calling me on that shit. EVER.

EXAMPLE A:
ME: OMG you guys must be best friends, you know how I can tell?
GIRL: Because we look at each other before we talk.
ME: HOLY CRAP you just read my mind! How did you know I was going to say that?
GIRL: *giggle*
ME: (plow to next topic)

EXAMPLE B:
GIRL: Are you guys "pick up artists" or something?
ME: ...hm? what's that? OK guys get this, so the other day I was walking through Union Square and this CRAZY looking girl wearing PVC clothes starts yelling my name... (stack forward, ignore response)


A strong frame beats those shit tests every time. Every single time! and if a girl walks away because she's realized you were a PUA--who gives a shit, it's JUST ONE GIRL. There are SOOO many cool and interesting people out there that you shouldn't get hung up on worrying about one girl.

Like I said, I got into this back in DECEMBER and I'm not in the LEAST worried about all this "secret information" going public and ruining the community, because I've been out in the field enough times to KNOW that it's going to have little-to-no-effect on my game. Those of you who have been at it for years should know, too.

The only logical explanation I can see for people being so scared about this happening to the community is that they haven't gone out practicing enough to have the basic principles of approaching and opening down. Well, you gotta get out there to do that. s
____

My last point about why the TV show is going to be nothing but COOL is because--

HEY GUYS, THIS IS TELEVISION!

VH1's Pick-Up Artist show isn't going to teach people how to be a player any more than Top Model, Top Chef, or Haircutting Pro is going to teach you to be a model, chef, or hair stylist! Watching that UFC show might teach you a couple of general techniques for street fighting but it's not going to teach you how to be a street fighter.

Television exists to sell ADVERTISING, and as such it's going to be ENTERTAINMENT-ORIENTED. That means that the point is going to be to get people INTERESTED in watching.

The good news is that people who practice this stuff in-field will know enough already to actually LEARN some subtle things that are being demonstrated or talked about from the show, while the rest of the world is just going to be wrapped up in the drama going on in these peoples' lives.

____

My point is DON'T WORRY. Your game is safe. If it sucked before the Vh1 show, it'll probably suck AFTER the Vh1 show, and forevermore, until you put in the work to get good at it.




rock on,

Shambles

[sting]

Congratulations VA team. you guys have earned it.

Mystery will not be actively teaching after the show - will Matador and Lovedrop remain active?

cheers,
S.

[hrithik]

I must say, originally, I was very much AGAINST the idea of the show and everything being exposed, etc, so understand that I'm not just being stubborn and standing by what I've always thought. I gave this whole thing a few days, re-read some of the e-books [VAH and Magic Bullets..or wait, aren't they like the same, anyways? lol So I guess I re-re-read..], let it all float around in my head, especially the theory stuff, as I went about my life and watched normal interactions with these re-visited theories being played out in front of my eyes. So hopefully you can understand the path I've gone down, and hopefully HAVING gone down that path, I'll be able to address this [having been on the opposite side of the debate for a while]. The way I see it, if it's a reality show, it's bound to be like a Beauty and the Geek type of thing, where more attention will be placed on the guys getting the training, and them going in the field and sucking ASS at 1st and then being able to sustain conversations or getting a number or even a kiss from a somewhat attractive girl..that was the basis for the show, right? From bad to good at pick-up? So wouldn't the people in charge of casting for the show have chosen people who were extreme cases when it came to approaching and talking to girls? And with more than just 1 or 2 students, they will also have to give background on ALL the students, as well as showing EACH of their beginning points, their failures, and their successes, then the whole "this is how it made me feel/how it changed my life!" deal, and before you know it, most of the show is already gone. Throw in some actual pieces of pick-up instruction and watching the instructors go at it to impress the students [and the viewers], and BOOM! There's your 4 hours of pick-up info. The other important thing to remember [and I'm not the only one to say this] is that it IS, after all, a reality show, and by definition its purpose is to entertain the viewers at the cost of the viewed [i.e. the students], and the best entertainment in pick-up stuff is going to be for the viewers to see a bunch of guys be nervous wrecks and be blown out by hot chicks at clubs, thus taking the average guys' fears and worries and broadcasting it on tv for everyone to laugh about. In the end, it IS reality tv, viewers don't take that shit all that seriously anyways [are you going to Charm School to sell all your clothes? Or will you be trying to get with Flava Flav/New York??], with shows like Family Guy even poking fun at how these reality shows are scripted [whether true or not, doesn't matter: that's the stereotype]. Also keep in mind that if anything else, it gives you more stuff to use in-set, as in OMG did you guys see that tv show where dorks learn to pick-up chicks?? blahblahblah, and isn't that crazy? [as a routine]/what do you think about that? [as an opener].....E-A-S-Y STUFF to spin, fellaz, just use your heads [if you want/need more help with THAT kind of stuff, you can just PM me, I have no problem helping out! That is how/why we all got here, right? haa]. And if you were to get busted, the E-A-S-Y OUT is "Oh, man, I know!! I saw that shit on TV, and me and my friends decided to try it just for shits and giggles and see how it would happen in REAL life! That's hilarious, you busted me on my FIRST TRY!! Wasn't it crazy when [talk about show]...?" [move to different routine]. Done! And here's another thing, for those worried about AFCs not being out of the loop: they might know of [MAYBE even understand] the terminology and the things going on [on a THEORETICAL level], but that does NOT MEAN that they'll see and understand those same things as they actually happen [on the EXPERIENTIAL, live-in-the-moment level], and thus still not actually understand what's going on. Point in case: girls getting gamed, EVEN THOUGH they are aware [and some even try to avoid] that they are being gamed...The first thing that bothers me about all this is that openers and more commonly-used routines [JGf opener, BFF test, etc] will be exposed due to their use by AFCs not knowing what the fuck they're doing and by girls possibly having seen it on the show, so the only thing WE have to do is [continue to] use our brains to replace whatever might be shown with something else, and it seems that a lot of people on this forum don't want to/know how to do this...the other thing that bothers me about all this [on a much more macro scale] is that the VA guys didn't make this known to us sooner, which leads to the feelings that maybe they were trying to hide it from us because they know that it's wrong/bad to "sell us out" [which may or may not be true], and this then leads to paranoia, which then leads to people being much more guarded, and suddenly the "love thy brother" attitude that the community originally had will be deteriorating [if not be demolished altogether] because people won't want THEIR stuff being stole and popularized...in essence, the trust that was one of the foundations of this community might become lost [if it hasn't already], and I'm not really sure what to say about that, because it seems that only time will tell how the outlook of trust and camaraderie will be affected...

[Brian_0610]

Everyone seems to be up in arms about things getting exposed on the new show... buuut, on the contrary, I think its gonna be a great thing for all of us aspiring guys...

1) I could NEVER afford a damn bootcamp... now I get to watch this shit happen in my own living room for free-- you can pick up where the VAH handbook left off to actually see things like delivery, nuances of body language, peacocking, etc... Mystery putting the theory in action-- things I would've never gotten the chance to see. A lot of people would've paid $300 to have a product like that- real live video footage... we're getting it for free.

2) A lot of other people are gonna see it too- but do they own the VAH handbook and know all the theory behind it?

3) What about all the guys who are gonna see it? I'm sure a lot of AFCs will.. It could help a lot of guys who would've normally never heard about it. Everyone deserves access to knowledge that will help them improve their lives. Hell, it could mean new wings we never would've had.

4) If girls see it, and spot you using a routine or something on them-- just develop your OWN routines...its not hard... there's nothing special about "Jealous Girlfriend" or "David Bowie" -- they're stupid throwaway questions designed to get people talking, that's it. Routines in and of themselves are nothing, its the person using them and the delivery of them.
And if someone can tell you're 'running game' when you're running game-- SOMETHINGS WRONG! Its supposed to come across as completely natural and imperceptable... So others knowing about it will force you to come across as smooth and natural... is that a bad thing?

5) It takes a hell of a lot of practice and dedication to get good at something, which most people don't have-- I'm a guitar players, and sure there are a ton, but most just dabble in it... few have the patience, persistence, and dedication to become great. This is true of people even in this own forum... how many go out 4 nights a week, 4 hrs each night, and open 12 sets per night? I'm willing to bet 90% of people on this forum don't... and if that's the case, you'll NEVER get to the level Mystery has, or Mehow, or Lovedrop... they put the time in. If you put the time in, have the same attitude, you'll get the same results too and will get ahead because you'll be doing what most people aren't.

6) IF the worst happens and what everyone fears comes true... everyone knowing about this shit will just make things evolve, and that's a good thing. It will force us to improve and create new ideas and methods that would've never existed before. Humans are the most adaptable creatures on the planet. We'll be just fine.

Mystery out of anyone in this entire community deserves this kind've success. He's given the most, been the most innovative, probably has endured the most rejection in order to even invent this method in the first place, and has probably been the most influential PUA the 'community' has ever seen. People who put in that kind've work deserve success and deserve to be rewarded.

Brian

[Slick]

When will this be airing?

[WANine]

Navy236. Go out and get laid. The fact that you write such long posts imply that you dont have a life away from your keyboard.

Thanks lovedrop for filling in the details. I look forward to watching the VH1 show and seeing Mystery demonstrate his method. It would be easier than buying the DVD set sold by Savoy and his company.

Shut the fuck up you tool. The fact that he wrote such a long post implies that he cares about the subject (like most people) and that he took the time to rebute lovedrops' shitty points one by one in great detail so that there was no confusion.

Like Navy said, this will change the game (for the worse) because mystery sold-out, and any of you that are in denial about this are about to get a big fucking wake-up call. I've already seen a massive increase in the amount of people who are aware of the game (from my roommate who had a copy of The Game laying around, to random friends who bring it up), and you're fucking stupid if you don't think that a show on mainstream TV or a nation-wide movie is going to change things.

edit: and I'm tired of hearing people say things like, "lol well u can just come up with ur own routine and you're in the clear!!", because that's bullshit. It's not the actual material that the general public will recognize, but the structure of that material (ie negs, dhvs, ftc's, dq's). After this, everytime you approach someone you don't know that is conscious of the game, they'll be thinking "omg he's going to try to run game on me" and they'll be looking for it, and you'll get called out or blown out.

By all means, deny what I'm saying as much as you want, but you'll all see the truth when the shit hits the fan.

[Boss]

because mystery sold-out, and any of you that are in denial about this are about to get a big fucking wake-up call. I've already seen a massive increase in the amount of people who are aware of the game (from my roommate who had a copy of The Game laying around, to random friends who bring it up), and you're fucking stupid if you don't think that a show on mainstream TV or a nation-wide movie is going to change things.

edit: and I'm tired of hearing people say things like, "lol well u can just come up with ur own routine and you're in the clear!!", because that's bullshit. It's not the actual material that the general public will recognize, but the structure of that material (ie negs, dhvs, ftc's, dq's). After this, everytime you approach someone you don't know that is conscious of the game, they'll be thinking "omg he's going to try to run game on me" and they'll be looking for it, and you'll get called out or blown out.

By all means, deny what I'm saying as much as you want, but you'll all see the truth when the shit hits the fan.

Oh dear...I don't wanna bad mouth mystery but he is becoming or already a sell-out...

[WANine]

Oh dear...I don't wanna bad mouth mystery but he is becoming or already a sell-out...

can you blame him though? I'd sell out for money too, after all, money is money.

[Rick Shambles]

edit: and I'm tired of hearing people say things like, "lol well u can just come up with ur own routine and you're in the clear!!", because that's bullshit. It's not the actual material that the general public will recognize, but the structure of that material (ie negs, dhvs, ftc's, dq's).

Focus on being the type of person that people are drawn to.

Be non-needy. Bring value. Learn how to carry conversations. In short, go natural. It's where everything is heading anyway.

Even if every chode you meet butts into your sets and says "hey that guy watches the Vh1 show!" He's still an AFC CHODE and STILL sucks with women. You're in the clear if you can remain unaffected...


:)

shambles

[WANine]

Focus on being the type of person that people are drawn to.

Be non-needy. Bring value. Learn how to carry conversations. In short, go natural. It's where everything is heading anyway.

Even if every chode you meet butts into your sets and says "hey that guy watches the Vh1 show!" He's still an AFC CHODE and STILL sucks with women. You're in the clear if you can remain unaffected...


:)

shambles

It's not the guys that butt into the set that I'd be worried about, it's the girls in the set who go "omg you're trying that vh1 stuff on me" that I would worry about :P

[Randel Flagg]

I must say, originally, I was very much AGAINST the idea of the show and everything being exposed, etc, so understand that I'm not just being stubborn and standing by what I've always thought. I gave this whole thing a few days, re-read some of the e-books [VAH and Magic Bullets..or wait, aren't they like the same, anyways? lol So I guess I re-re-read..], let it all float around in my head, especially the theory stuff, as I went about my life and watched normal interactions with these re-visited theories being played out in front of my eyes. So hopefully you can understand the path I've gone down, and hopefully HAVING gone down that path, I'll be able to address this [having been on the opposite side of the debate for a while]. The way I see it, if it's a reality show, it's bound to be like a Beauty and the Geek type of thing, where more attention will be placed on the guys getting the training, and them going in the field and sucking ASS at 1st and then being able to sustain conversations or getting a number or even a kiss from a somewhat attractive girl..that was the basis for the show, right? From bad to good at pick-up? So wouldn't the people in charge of casting for the show have chosen people who were extreme cases when it came to approaching and talking to girls? And with more than just 1 or 2 students, they will also have to give background on ALL the students, as well as showing EACH of their beginning points, their failures, and their successes, then the whole "this is how it made me feel/how it changed my life!" deal, and before you know it, most of the show is already gone. Throw in some actual pieces of pick-up instruction and watching the instructors go at it to impress the students [and the viewers], and BOOM! There's your 4 hours of pick-up info. The other important thing to remember [and I'm not the only one to say this] is that it IS, after all, a reality show, and by definition its purpose is to entertain the viewers at the cost of the viewed [i.e. the students], and the best entertainment in pick-up stuff is going to be for the viewers to see a bunch of guys be nervous wrecks and be blown out by hot chicks at clubs, thus taking the average guys' fears and worries and broadcasting it on tv for everyone to laugh about. In the end, it IS reality tv, viewers don't take that shit all that seriously anyways [are you going to Charm School to sell all your clothes? Or will you be trying to get with Flava Flav/New York??], with shows like Family Guy even poking fun at how these reality shows are scripted [whether true or not, doesn't matter: that's the stereotype]. Also keep in mind that if anything else, it gives you more stuff to use in-set, as in OMG did you guys see that tv show where dorks learn to pick-up chicks?? blahblahblah, and isn't that crazy? [as a routine]/what do you think about that? [as an opener].....E-A-S-Y STUFF to spin, fellaz, just use your heads [if you want/need more help with THAT kind of stuff, you can just PM me, I have no problem helping out! That is how/why we all got here, right? haa]. And if you were to get busted, the E-A-S-Y OUT is "Oh, man, I know!! I saw that shit on TV, and me and my friends decided to try it just for shits and giggles and see how it would happen in REAL life! That's hilarious, you busted me on my FIRST TRY!! Wasn't it crazy when [talk about show]...?" [move to different routine]. Done! And here's another thing, for those worried about AFCs not being out of the loop: they might know of [MAYBE even understand] the terminology and the things going on [on a THEORETICAL level], but that does NOT MEAN that they'll see and understand those same things as they actually happen [on the EXPERIENTIAL, live-in-the-moment level], and thus still not actually understand what's going on. Point in case: girls getting gamed, EVEN THOUGH they are aware [and some even try to avoid] that they are being gamed...The first thing that bothers me about all this is that openers and more commonly-used routines [JGf opener, BFF test, etc] will be exposed due to their use by AFCs not knowing what the fuck they're doing and by girls possibly having seen it on the show, so the only thing WE have to do is [continue to] use our brains to replace whatever might be shown with something else, and it seems that a lot of people on this forum don't want to/know how to do this...the other thing that bothers me about all this [on a much more macro scale] is that the VA guys didn't make this known to us sooner, which leads to the feelings that maybe they were trying to hide it from us because they know that it's wrong/bad to "sell us out" [which may or may not be true], and this then leads to paranoia, which then leads to people being much more guarded, and suddenly the "love thy brother" attitude that the community originally had will be deteriorating [if not be demolished altogether] because people won't want THEIR stuff being stole and popularized...in essence, the trust that was one of the foundations of this community might become lost [if it hasn't already], and I'm not really sure what to say about that, because it seems that only time will tell how the outlook of trust and camaraderie will be affected...

Exactly, you can already kind of see changes in the forum. What are we talking about? the show. In the last couple of weeks, I really havent seen to much new materail being shared there some but not a whole hell of alot. Plus, All of the conversation has been about new books comming out and the TV show. I believe that the community is already reacting to the show even if no one wants to admit it.

[Reborn]

Shut the fuck up you tool. The fact that he wrote such a long post implies that he cares about the subject (like most people) and that he took the time to rebute lovedrops' shitty points one by one in great detail so that there was no confusion.

Like Navy said, this will change the game (for the worse) because mystery sold-out, and any of you that are in denial about this are about to get a big fucking wake-up call. I've already seen a massive increase in the amount of people who are aware of the game (from my roommate who had a copy of The Game laying around, to random friends who bring it up), and you're fucking stupid if you don't think that a show on mainstream TV or a nation-wide movie is going to change things.

edit: and I'm tired of hearing people say things like, "lol well u can just come up with ur own routine and you're in the clear!!", because that's bullshit. It's not the actual material that the general public will recognize, but the structure of that material (ie negs, dhvs, ftc's, dq's). After this, everytime you approach someone you don't know that is conscious of the game, they'll be thinking "omg he's going to try to run game on me" and they'll be looking for it, and you'll get called out or blown out.

By all means, deny what I'm saying as much as you want, but you'll all see the truth when the shit hits the fan.

I totally agree and will not purchase any more seduction product period.


I brought this up when "The Game" came out. All I got was a lot of cavalier macho attitudes.

Then...surprise, surprise...people in my lair were getting 'busted', I started reading reports that people were getting 'busted'...and it'll get even worse.

The bodybuilding analogy is so ridiculous.

If I tell a bodybuilder "Hey, you're a body builder, you go to the gym"

do his muscles disappear??? NO.

If a love interest, amog, protector, brother, uncle, in a set knows about
this and you open the set and he says "hey, that's that pickup stuff, this guy studies how to fuck tons of chicks"

Different story.

[X-Press]

I can see how Mystery Method follower might have a problem with this. Mystery even said run newbie missions by using same routines in the book. What if someone used that and somehow became friends with those people... Well I guess you can still get around that but for guys starting out, this will seem like a betrayal from Mystery and irresponsible way of teaching.

But what attraction is and how a high value guy acts is constant and this won't be changed by the mainstream spread.

[Reborn]

.................

[X-Press]

I work to increase my value through being real and genuinely alpha guy with everyone, thus working on my congruence and being attractive at the same time.

I don't worry about what tactics to use or what other people will think of my tactics. And if you're worried so much about how people will catch you using tricks, I doubt you were having alot of success in the first place before this stuff went mainstream.

[WANine]

And if you were to get busted, the E-A-S-Y OUT is "Oh, man, I know!! I saw that shit on TV, and me and my friends decided to try it just for shits and giggles and see how it would happen in REAL life! That's hilarious, you busted me on my FIRST TRY!! Wasn't it crazy when [talk about show]...?" [move to different routine]

Already though (with this at least) you'll still come off as needy because you tried it out, even if you throw in the backpeddal of "just for shits and giggles". I mean, it might work, but I have a feeling a lot of girls would just sit there and go "you're lame". Who knows though, maybe I'll be horribly wrong [i hope]

[Navy236]

How ironic that the same people who use methods because "everyone" is using them wind up complaining that EVERYONE is using them!

[coolguy]

Geez, 7 pages? I just want to know when the thing airs :)?

[Equal]

Well a few weeks ago I posted a lot on a previous thread about this same subject. This is my first time checking back since then, I guess things don't change much.

Here is my view - in as few words as possible. Guys that don't think exposure will matter or who say stuff like "you shouldnt be using canned routines" are wrong in my opinion. The point of this community was to make up routines and then share them with others - everyone would field test different stuff, find what worked and then get laid.

NOW there is this thought process that you should make up your own stuff and your hardcore inner game or your so interesting personaltiy will get you laid. Take it from a guy with all the inner frame in the world and someone that is pretty interesting - without canned stuff and go to lines getting laid is 100% harder. Guys with field experience know this, they know they get the same shit tests over and over and having a solid response without thinking is key. Just like guys know a great opener is a big help. The VALUE of all the products previously sold was that they contained material you could go run with immediately.

Today you would be stupid to share an opener or routine on a message board, unless you were a new 'guru' looking to sell something, because it might show up on someones show. You would also have to be a moron to pay 1 cent for any pick up product offered or any field training. these guys are saying the routines dont matter, SO WHY PAY FOR THEM. Do you need to pay for advice on standing up straight, do being a pussy and keeping eye contact? I guess I could see throwing $30 to DD or $20 for the MM on amazon but once you have the outline you are supposed to make up the routines yourself - RIGHT - is that what you guys are saying? Anyone in the field knows that is laughable.

MY SOLUTION - Human behavor won't change, you can still fuck women by using the basic theories - MM, C&F, Direct, Juggy - whichever you like. What will change is that saying "I need your opinion on something" or "hey do you know the cude" - that might raise flags (if used on the TV show). My simple solution is - AND GET READY FOR IT - we take the community back.]

WE TAKE IT UNDERGROUND AGAIN. No more guru's selling the same stupid shit. No more public posts, no more stuff that isn't field tested. No more whoreshiping Mystery and Style and every other sellout - you want to be alpha here is your shot.

We just need to create a PRIVATE invitation only forum that is not open to the public. You can only post openers, routines or field reports. Absolutely nothing else. No long BS posts on inner game and being alpha - just stuff like this is what I did last night and it worked or didn't. Guys that want to make up their own shit wont feel bad because obviously they don't need our help. I am shiting with web sites but anyone that knows about this stuff pls PM me.

Enough is enough with debating this VH1 and Mystery nonsense - let them try and be stars while we take back the community and collectively create new fun shit that no one can sell.

Equal

PS - I had to add this to my original post - all you guys saying just be real and be yourself - THAT DIDNT FUCKING WORK BEFORE DID IT? Most people are NOT interesting, thus most men become more and more of a commodity to women. GAME made you interesting and different, being yourself makes you one in a million and frankly BORING - and this allows women to regain their power. They know they can get A MAN BEING HIMSELF at any moment. Good luck with that.

[Navy236]

Well a few weeks ago I posted a lot on a previous thread about this same subject. This is my first time checking back since then, I guess things don't change much.

Here is my view - in as few words as possible. Guys that don't think exposure will matter or who say stuff like "you shouldnt be using canned routines" are wrong in my opinion. The point of this community was to make up routines and then share them with others - everyone would field test different stuff, find what worked and then get laid.

NOW there is this thought process that you should make up your own stuff and your hardcore inner game or your so interesting personaltiy will get you laid. Take it from a guy with all the inner frame in the world and someone that is pretty interesting - without canned stuff and go to lines getting laid is 100% harder. Guys with field experience know this, they know they get the same shit tests over and over and having a solid response without thinking is key. Just like guys know a great opener is a big help. The VALUE of all the products previously sold was that they contained material you could go run with immediately.

Today you would be stupid to share an opener or routine on a message board, unless you were a new 'guru' looking to sell something, because it might show up on someones show. You would also have to be a moron to pay 1 cent for any pick up product offered or any field training. these guys are saying the routines dont matter, SO WHY PAY FOR THEM. Do you need to pay for advice on standing up straight, do being a pussy and keeping eye contact? I guess I could see throwing $30 to DD or $20 for the MM on amazon but once you have the outline you are supposed to make up the routines yourself - RIGHT - is that what you guys are saying? Anyone in the field knows that is laughable.

MY SOLUTION - Human behavor won't change, you can still fuck women by using the basic theories - MM, C&F, Direct, Juggy - whichever you like. What will change is that saying "I need your opinion on something" or "hey do you know the cude" - that might raise flags (if used on the TV show). My simple solution is - AND GET READY FOR IT - we take the community back.]

WE TAKE IT UNDERGROUND AGAIN. No more guru's selling the same stupid shit. No more public posts, no more stuff that isn't field tested. No more whoreshiping Mystery and Style and every other sellout - you want to be alpha here is your shot.

We just need to create a PRIVATE invitation only forum that is not open to the public. You can only post openers, routines or field reports. Absolutely nothing else. No long BS posts on inner game and being alpha - just stuff like this is what I did last night and it worked or didn't. Guys that want to make up their own shit wont feel bad because obviously they don't need our help. I am shiting with web sites but anyone that knows about this stuff pls PM me.

Enough is enough with debating this VH1 and Mystery nonsense - let them try and be stars while we take back the community and collectively create new fun shit that no one can sell.

Equal

PS - I had to add this to my original post - all you guys saying just be real and be yourself - THAT DIDNT FUCKING WORK BEFORE DID IT? Most people are NOT interesting, thus most men become more and more of a commodity to women. GAME made you interesting and different, being yourself makes you one in a million and frankly BORING - and this allows women to regain their power. They know they can get A MAN BEING HIMSELF at any moment. Good luck with that.


Couldn't someone just sell the new stuff to Mystery?

[TruePlayer]

Ok, Equal sort of has a point: For newbies routines and stuff are helpful. But they won't get you laid no matter how fucking good they are and how many you have. They will just get you farther and farther along until you finally have the confidence to push all the way through to an f-close.

OTOH, if you are field experienced you don't need negs, openers or routines. Just go into a set, open with anything, and act confident for 5 minutes. Then qualify, comfort, blah, blah, blah and get laid.

In fact once you are experienced and confident you are probably going to want to avoid openers, routines and chick crack, merely because they will feel so lame to you. The reality is that you don't need them. All you need is confidence. Something the non-community could have told you in the first place.

I also agree to some extent with Equal that you shouldn't pay gurus for anything. 99% of all the theory is out there for free. And it's the important 99% too.

Now, OTOH, I do think BCs are important because they teach good body language, and they will tell you if you are a fashion disaster. Yes, this stuff should be obvious to anyone, but if you are in community, guess what: 98% chance it wasn't obvious to you!

Now, of course, $2k+ is way too much to be told to stand/sit up straight and that you ought to buy nicer clothes, and better shoes but there is still some value in BCs. (Ideally, some lair guys in your city ought to be able to help you with the BL/fashion thing for maybe 1/10 the the price tag.)

Now as for methods: I think they are just placebo and, as such, it doesn't really matter which you use. As long as you think it will get you somewhere in the long run, and you hold that belief for long enough to get enough field experience that you have confidence you should be fine.

Hell, my guess is that if a guy actually believed that literal "sugar pills" were magic get-you-laid pills and all he had to learn was to "focus his energy" or some crap, and if he kept with this belief long enough to build the field experience to have the confidence, even that bogus system would get him laid. All MM provides is a more believable story backed by a revered leader.

[relics]

The only people that should complain are the girls.

No more free drinks:(

[Waltradomous]

I think if you've been going through the last couple years of your life using routines, it's totally rational that you wouldn't want your cover blown. Now everyone you've used these routines on will most likely think you're a scumbag with no integrity. I only did straight MM for like 4 months or so, so it's not THAT bad in my case, but I bet it would be brutal to the guys who've used routines on everyone they know and have met.

Being in the community isn't 'cool' to outsiders, it's considered try hard and pathetic by most. I obviously know that's not true, but I do think it's important to keep your journey to mPUA secretive.

Sure, the game isn't over at all--but you still look like a tool to everyone you've interacted with in the last 2 years which does suck. Congrats on the show eitherway, just next time don't encourage people to use routines that you're planning on exploiting a year later.

[Enigma]

matter, SO WHY PAY FOR THEM. Do you need to pay for advice on standing up straight, do being a pussy and keeping eye contact? I guess I could see throwing


I thought the value of a BC was not so much in the routines they teach(basically the same routines that you can get for free anyway) but on the delivery and how the pieces all fit together. Yeah, I know it's all written in the books also, but still some guys(including myself and my wings) have a hard time figuring this out, but we are getting there.

$30 to DD or $20 for the MM on amazon but once you have the outline you are supposed to make up the routines yourself - RIGHT - is that what you guys are saying? Anyone in the field knows that is laughable.


Why is it so hard to make up your own stuff? If you are in a lair the guys there could make up a routine collection.

MY SOLUTION - Human behavor won't change, you can still fuck women by using the basic theories - MM, C&F, Direct, Juggy - whichever you like. What will change is that saying "I need your opinion on something" or "hey do you know the cude" - that might raise flags (if used on the TV show). My simple solution is - AND GET READY FOR IT - we take the community back.]


The cube is already very well known. A friend tried to use it in the Shenanigans(Irish pub) here in Rio de Janeiro on the waitress. She said : please not the cube. What I'm more worried about is that opinion openers in general might stop working. Eg.: I need a female opinion. HB: fuck off.

I also wonder, how many routines will they actually show on tv. I suppose they will be using the same stack over and over again, so that means probably 6,7 routines at most, maybe 10. No big deal. There are tons of other routines out there.

We just need to create a PRIVATE invitation only forum that is not open to the public. You can only post openers, routines or field reports. Absolutely nothing else. No long BS posts on inner game and being alpha - just stuff like this is what I did last night and it worked or didn't. Guys that want to make up their own shit wont feel bad because obviously they don't need our help. I am shiting with web sites but anyone that knows about this stuff pls PM me.

I have a better idea. Just create another public forum. You know, nowadays there are so many forums about PU that nobody can keep track of them. The excess of information makes it easy to hide new information. Making the ONE underground forum will only attract attention and it is only a question of time until the best routines leak. Another alternative is to create a local forum in your lair and only invite people you trust and/or know personally.

Peace, Enigma

[Navy236]

Ok, Equal sort of has a point: For newbies routines and stuff are helpful. But they won't get you laid no matter how fucking good they are and how many you have. They will just get you farther and farther along until you finally have the confidence to push all the way through to an f-close.

GREAT routines WILL get you laid. The structure of the community as it is now is such that unless those rroutines come from Mystery, Style, TD, or about six other guys, they'll never see the light of day. Want to know why? Simple: A GUY CAN USE HIS OWN STUFF TO GET LAID. If he gives up the goose, to even ONE other guy, he risks losing the routine and the ability to use it to get laid. If he can make money at his regular job, he doesn't need to sell something that is fixing his love life, knowing what happened to the other routines that went public.

In any situation with a hot chick, there is a correct move and an incorrect move. You can never create a lay with what you do, only lose one (if there's a move that gets the lay the lay was always there). The question isn't whether or not a guru is worth it, but whether or not the right people are gurus. Right now the gurus are benefitting from increasingly lower expectations among the clientele, but how long is that going to last? Ten years ago if something couldn't get you fucking a 9 it was laughed at, now something that opens a 7 is "groundbreaking." Give me a fucking break.

There's another reason the guys will keep the new stuff to themselves, and that's the women who will pay them to play defense. Let's see, I have two choices here: a) teach the men, get pirated out the wazoo, deal with all the b/s competition between gurus, and watch my stuff wind up on the boards, or b) teach the women, get paid more, become a talk show darling, constantly deal with 9s and 10s (since I'm teaching hot women how to stop players, as ugly women need to work on their looks), many of whom I'll fuck and won't be doing business with, while the others will be paying me.


OTOH, if you are field experienced you don't need negs, openers or routines. Just go into a set, open with anything, and act confident for 5 minutes. Then qualify, comfort, blah, blah, blah and get laid.

If you are not fucking 10s, you need routines and anything else you can do to improve your results, and that includes good material. The difference with the mainstream exposure is that the material guys get from the net, paid or not, is not as likely to be "good" as it was in the past. But if I tell you there's a "super 10" routine that can get you a 10 even if you're a dweeb, you'd want it. Not that there is a routine, but the issue is the quality of the routines, not the need for them. The gurus who used to deliver them can't change the rules just because the media is cockblocking them now and the community is running the Red Queen all over the board.


In fact once you are experienced and confident you are probably going to want to avoid openers, routines and chick crack, merely because they will feel so lame to you. The reality is that you don't need them. All you need is confidence. Something the non-community could have told you in the first place.

If you have a good opener that's money, why avoid it? Same for routines and chick crack. Chick crack might be the "sole survivor" of the theory because it's something they really really are into, just like "guy crack" of stripping would survive a nuclear war. It's not that openers are bad, it's that the openers currently available are being played out and nothing has taken their place because no one can publish without killing the profits.

It gets like the stock market boards, where the guys making a killing because a stock hit some buy or sell trigger aren't going to tell you what the trigger is, but will just give general advice. If he posts his buy/sell trigger, he gets copied until no one makes any money, even though "people are still making money in the market" (just like "women still want to get laid."). Sure, women still want to get laid, but if your money opener was just crushed, the odds that you'll be the one she's getting laid with have just gone way down. If you're the one creating the material, why get other guys laid for it without getting paid?



I also agree to some extent with Equal that you shouldn't pay gurus for anything. 99% of all the theory is out there for free. And it's the important 99% too. Now, OTOH, I do think BCs are important because they teach good body language, and they will tell you if you are a fashion disaster. Yes, this stuff should be obvious to anyone, but if you are in community, guess what: 98% chance it wasn't obvious to you!

Videos can teach this as well. If all the workshops are teaching is the application of theory rather than better theory, the price is way too high, and it should be an hourly rate similar to a personal trainer at the gym.

The other problem is that as you get away from pure game (like a neg), and into "inner game" and "lifestyle," you begin treading on areas that have licensed professionals with advanced degrees, such as exercise physiology, psychology, nutrition, certified financial planning, etc. The "seduction guru" really has no qualifications in these auxillary fields.


Now, of course, $2k+ is way too much to be told to stand/sit up straight and that you ought to buy nicer clothes, and better shoes but there is still some value in BCs. (Ideally, some lair guys in your city ought to be able to help you with the BL/fashion thing for maybe 1/10 the the price tag.)

If even the lairs go that commercial, the community can be called officially dead.


Now as for methods: I think they are just placebo and, as such, it doesn't really matter which you use.

Unless one method gets you better women.


As long as you think it will get you somewhere in the long run, and you hold that belief for long enough to get enough field experience that you have confidence you should be fine.

The effectiveness of a tool does not rest on the attitude of the craftsman.


Hell, my guess is that if a guy actually believed that literal "sugar pills" were magic get-you-laid pills and all he had to learn was to "focus his energy" or some crap, and if he kept with this belief long enough to build the field experience to have the confidence, even that bogus system would get him laid. All MM provides is a more believable story backed by a revered leader.

The very social proof the guys here are supposed to be too smart to be swayed by. If they know what social proof is, and STILL react to it, then they're into popularity and status a lot more than they let on.

[Navy236]

Why is it so hard to make up your own stuff? If you are in a lair the guys there could make up a routine collection.

It's hard to make up one's own stuff because most guys aren't that smooth with women. The community thrived because it was like a cheat sheet. Now it's like a college textbook.


I also wonder, how many routines will they actually show on tv. I suppose they will be using the same stack over and over again, so that means probably 6,7 routines at most, maybe 10. No big deal. There are tons of other routines out there.

The structure of PU is what will be taught, and the women know that guys will try different variations on the same theme.


I have a better idea. Just create another public forum. You know, nowadays there are so many forums about PU that nobody can keep track of them. The excess of information makes it easy to hide new information. Making the ONE underground forum will only attract attention and it is only a question of time until the best routines leak. Another alternative is to create a local forum in your lair and only invite people you trust and/or know personally.

Anything on the public boards will get poached and make it less effective. The noncommercial guys are still getting laid with their new stuff so why should they sabotage themselves by giving it away? Compare this to the new market of women wanting counter-tactics that is opening up, where PUAs can get paid without revealing anything new.

There will soon be lots of books like Catch Him And Keep Him out there.

[Randel Flagg]

There has not been alot of new material spread on this forum in a while. It seems like its just an advice board now with advertisments for bootcamps, approach instructiors, and PUA websides for sale. Where's the quality??

The routines are few and far between. Face it the sharing is over. Even the guys with NOTHING TO LOOSE arent posting anything here. So the argument that members are welcoming this new wave of the future is bullshit. If you not concerned about a bunch of AFCs using your stuff and your shit going mainstream, why have all of the good posters slowed down posting?

I watched this forum for five months before I joined it in May and it was a hell alot better back in January when it started. So all of this "look on the bright side" crap is a load of shit. There are Members: 2,103, Active Members: 721 and we know we all go out to try to get laid. So theres alot of information ot there. Sorry, I dont see half of those members posting material

Also, I've also recently seen alot of advertizing of bootcamps on this forum? Are they running out of guys or are they just getting too expensive, or are they worried that there won't be in big demand anymore.

[phoenix]

I was never worried about the show. I Figure People will see it as another "beauty and the geek" or something like that. No take it seriously.

But as I began to read I realized, a lot more people do know about it. And pick up lines dont work, period, so why will modern pick up?

But then I remembered something. Speed Seduction was around for a long time. I mean Tom Cruise's charactor in Magnolia was based on Ross jeffries.

The whole SS itself was suspicous to begin with.

I mean walking up to a girl doing those patterns.

But

It never got harder.

I guareentee you I could as girls all day if they know what SS is and they wouldnt have a clue.

Same with PU.

They may know the word pick-up, but they won't know what a DHV is.


But then again.

Ross jeffries didnt have new york times best selling books, and telivision series.



But I believe regardless, even if say 15% of girls watch the show ona regular basis and figure you out.

And another Additional 35 % watch it occasionally.


That makes 50 %

But I'd bet a good 25% at most would spot you.

and then you still got that whole other 50% to sarge.


more work.

but id say it can be done.


Oh and if it all fails.

Just go out and FAIL FAIL FAIL, until you get use to rejection and female interaction. then Start studying SS. It goes by subconscious, and so even if they figure it out consciously it won't matter.

You will still get them.

Its all people had for a long time, and they still used it effectively.

I dont know any, but I have a lot saved to my comp.

If it come down to that or nothing, I damn well will start learning it.


Come to think of it.

IF it does stop working, a lot of these guru's will get what they deserve, because their methods won't work, and people will quit buying it.

Its not like the be nice advice.

this shit is weird

if it dosnt work, people won't buy it.



so their gonna lose all their customers if the worst happens.

then girls will forget about it


and then we can start using it again.


plus we'll all know alternative techniques like SS or NLP.

Yay

[Equal]

Guys thanks for the feedback on my post. Let me start by giving a little background. I got in the community about 2 years ago -I read a Ross book first and immediately felt the THEORIES were dead on. I read some stuff online, some DD and MM stuff and I was hooked. I also blindly believed that this would work - I was not out to PROVE anyone wrong.

I was never terrible with women and I was never shy. I always had a strong sense of style that fit my personality but looking back it wasnt as bad ass as I am now - I added subtle peacock stuff that fits my personality. My interactions with women were OK but I did not understand attraction or behavior like I now do. My interactions now are 100% better than in the past and I am happy - so that is great for me.

I feel one can learn the basic startegy pretty quickly and then all you need to do is BELIEVE and practice - the problem most guys have is they don't believe they want to argue why this stuff doesn't work. They are pure chodes and let them think it doesnt work - the THEORY works and its all you need. Now to address some specific points that guys made.

Navy said "couldn't someone sell the new stuff to Mystery?" - I guess but the point is to true and have a tight group that wants to make up new routines, openers and negs. We can easily copywrite the stuff - if anyone uses it for commercial purposes they can be sued. Many memebers of this community are professionals with resources - Mystery is not untouchable. And frankly I would think the great one would be too proud to rip off stuff.

TruePlayer - Thanks for the response and while I mostly agree with your points I think you are mistaking confidence. You get that from getting laid AND even if you are the most confident person in the world (I tend to be very confident and sarcastic) you still need interesting stuff to talk about and definately need NEGS with hot girls. They will blow you out everytime. Now since you are confident you wont care and you will move on but why create the hassel. Everything MM sells is a structure and many of the stuff is word of word routines - I urge anyone to read the archieves of the older writings from Mystery and Style and everyone else - all the good stuff is on routines or negs or I did X and got X results. I agree bootcamps can help truly shy guys with BL but you can get that from a video and charging 2k+ is just silly. BL should be non-needy, stand up straight with shoulders down and back, eventually this stance will look relaxed when you practice it. Don't lean in, don't hover like a chode - there someone send me $2 for that lesson. Same with delivery - talk slow, be nonchalant, dont let nerves kill you, everyone is nervous but you are the fun guy - remember that. Talk like you would with a friend you have known for years - again send me a check!

Enigma - "why is it so hard to make up your own routines? Your lair friends can help you." - I have to say I would never be caught dead in a pick up lair, that is creepy to me. And it is hard to make up stuff that works - why not use the leverage of a community to find what works BEST - that is simple common sense.

Tredd - "no new routines or openers anymore - this is jsut to advertise stuff" - I 100% agree and that is why I posted.


TO EVERYONE THAT SAYS BE YOURSELF OR MAKE UP YOUR OWN STUFF - That is great but most guys and people in general are BORING - they cant make up stuff or they find it hard. Why make life harder than it needs to be. A few great openers and negs and routines, combined with BL, EC and confidence wins EVERYNIGHT! Guys that say be yourself are either really good and have internalized so much that being themselves is basically running game OR guys that suck and think they dont need help. For most being yourself means you are BORING - that is not an insult its just the truth and the law of large numbers. That is why MM works SO well - you are not normal.

To those that say just start another public forum - no way - let the public sales machine guys do what they want to. Guys like me that just want to have fun with women and improve and create new routines and openers can stay hidden. Believe the community as we know it will be dead in a yr or so - the forums have already changed massively.

Please PM me with suggestions.

Equal

PS - and again the structure will not stop working, dont worry about that - worry about having enough interesting stuff to attract and move into solid comfort - that is what is at risk here. Solid openers and routines will be golden. Then you just have to be man enough to fuck them - women are not going to say "you are freezing me out because I have LMR" - I wouldnt worry about that for 1 second.

[Enigma]

Well, we shouldn't forget about the companies that advertise doing a no-routine PU: RSD and Juggler come to mind. But I don't know how effective they are and if they really don't use routines. Does anyone here have experience with those?

But, if we stand back for a moment we should realize that we are speculating about the future here. It's like when "The Game" was published, a lot of people where afraid that this would be the end. But, it seems that you can still sarge in NYC and use the same routines in the book and not being challenged by any girl(with rare exceptions).

Also we should not forget that women actually want to be sarged. So I don't understand all this stuff about counter-tactics.

Another point is, from my field experience, it is not the material that gets you laid. I go out regularly(3 times a week) with several wings and at least one of them uses a full routine stack. And guess what, very few lays. Why? Because we still are working on the delivery and getting the dynamic of the interaction right. This notion that it's the material that makes it work contradicts my field experience and the theory.

If you analyse the MM material(VAH and Magic Bullets) you will see that very little of the content are routines. 99% of the material is explaining the dynamics of the interaction.

Peace, Enigma

[Equal]

I think I need to stress by routines and canned material I am simply talking about having something to say for almost any reaction - guys that go out over and over again get the same crap spit back at them from women. Knowing what to say without thinking is critical and makes you cool.

In addition having some interesting talking points is critical - strawberry fields and the cube made you seem different - so having more of that stuff is never bad.

Juggy and DD are big on standard come backs to certain things women say - that is basically a routine. I dont want to get caught up here in symantics - I think most people know what I mean by openers/routines and canned materials.

Equal

[TruePlayer]

why have all of the good posters slowed down posting?


They have either


settled into relationships; and/or
decided to make a buck off this; and/or
moved on to focus on other areas of their lives

[Navy236]

I think I need to stress by routines and canned material I am simply talking about having something to say for almost any reaction - guys that go out over and over again get the same crap spit back at them from women. Knowing what to say without thinking is critical and makes you cool.

In addition having some interesting talking points is critical - strawberry fields and the cube made you seem different - so having more of that stuff is never bad.

Juggy and DD are big on standard come backs to certain things women say - that is basically a routine. I dont want to get caught up here in symantics - I think most people know what I mean by openers/routines and canned materials.

Equal

Look at it this way. Women using the "same crap" led to PUAs using counter-tactics that have reduced the effectiveness of their "crap" so now they're doing it to our "crap."

Crap!

[Pimperonni]

Hell, my guess is that if a guy actually believed that literal "sugar pills" were magic get-you-laid pills and all he had to learn was to "focus his energy" or some crap, and if he kept with this belief long enough to build the field experience to have the confidence, even that bogus system would get him laid.

Sugar pills ey?

Do you have a link for this?

[TruePlayer]

Well I have not done the chemical analysis, so I cannot say 100% for sure that it's literally placebo... But, I do have a sneaking suspicion about this::rolleyes:

http://www.garybrodsky.com/magic_bullets.html

[MrEsquire]

Equal and Navy: Thanks for bringing some well thought-out posts to this forum. I'm going to throw in my 2cents on: 1) the show and the commercialization of pickup and 2) the current state of the community. Let me know what you think.

1) The VH1 Show and the Commercialization of Pickup

I honestly think the VH1 show will have very little effect in the grand scheme of things. Some people think it will be a figurative doomsday for the community, but there are just too many things working against that. As previous posters have said, it sounds like this show is going to be far from a lecture on game. It sounds like it is going to be more of a "beauty and the geek" type show. More people will see it as a comedy. Another date show along the lines of "blind date", "fifth wheel", "next", etc and so on. I'm sure it will give away some routines, but having only a few routines exposed shouldn't be that big of a deal - there are literally hundreds more out there.

Furthermore, how many girls are going to really watch the show? I doubt it is going to be a huge number. Hell, Keys to the VIP plays daily where I live and nobody I know has even heard of it - I actually have girls come over and watch it with me! Beyond that, even if a girl does watch it, weeks after the show is over, will she be calling out guys left and right in bars by saying, "Are you a pickup artist?" or, "Was that a neg?" I highly doubt it. Most girls won't remember details like that from a basically insignificant show. Most people, especially women, are too wrapped up in themselves to remember that kind of stuff weeks after the show is off their radar.

And to take that to another level, even if they are in a bar and you come up and run some game on her, if you are any good, she won't even notice you are running game. Negs, cocky/funny, fun games and stories (ie routines), etc were around long before "the community". You know why? It's because that's what works! Being funny, busting on girls, being interesting and telling fun stories aren't things you'll be called out on. Especially if the girl is wrapped up in the conversation - even if she knows exactly what is going on, she'll be too blinded by her emotional attraction to pick up logically on what you are doing, or she will just make justifications and tell herself that you aren't running game.

Here's an analogy: lawyers often times don't see things for what they are because they are so colored by their legal bias. Sometimes they need a "lay person" to come along and give their opinion. This is effective because lawyers often forget that "lay people" really don't know anything about the law beyond popular culture (which is full of incorrect information) and pervasive myths would have them believe. Try asking people what the difference between an assault and a battery is...most people think they are the exact same thing. I think this subjective blindness happens to people in the community too. If you were to take an outsider and have them break down a sarge, they would have no idea that you're using negs, routines, etc. They'd just see it as a normal, fun, flirty interaction. However, since we are so used to dissecting this kind of stuff, we see all the minute details and affix labels to everything. It's the same way a lawyer looks at a situation and thinks purely in legal terms - they often forget that regular people don't think like that because they are so used to thinking that way themselves!

I went into "Books-A-Million" yesterday to buy a few books and magazines. And I shit you not, right in the front of the store, front and center, on a shelf full of featured books for "reading out on the beach this summer" was "The Game." How's that for exposure? And believe me, reading that book cover-to-cover will definitely give away more routines, tactics, and community information that the VH1 show ever will.

2) The Current State of "The Community"

Despite the fact that there are more ebooks than ever, more forums, tv shows, and print books about seduction, the community is in a decline. Look at the major forums: the posting there is a mere fraction of what it once was. Seduction has simultaneously reached a point of being watered down along with having a near halt of new material and creative thinkers.

Look at the "golden age" of pickup: this is when you had ideas flowing back and forth. Everything was new and PUAs were embarking on this journey together. Style, Mystery, ToeCutter, Juggler, TylerDurden, Gunwitch...and many more that I'm forgetting: the golden age was when they were still relatively new to the game. They weren't idolized gods at that point. They were still going through trial and error, creating new routines, bouncing ideas of one another, and excitedly posting FRs and LRs.

All the most popular and major routines weren't created for an online forum. They were created by Style, TD, Mystery, Juggler, etc in the field and in real life. These guys had wings that they would bounce ideas off of. They'd sit around and think up new routines. They'd field test relentlessly. They'd dissect their sticking points. I'll use Style and Mystery as the example: what they did to create their routines was nothing special. They were just 2 guys out there in the field having fun, creating routines, and seeing if they worked. It just so happens that they also decided to post their experiences on the internet while they were going through them. It's not rocket science, but we don't see that type of ingenuity in the game anymore. People are out reading forums for the next best routine instead of getting out in the field and creating their own silly stories and games.

In fact, the community just doesn't have those icons anymore. All the people who helped popularize the community are gone. They are off doing their own thing and charging mucho $$$ for it. That isn't really a problem; the problem is, nobody has filled-in in the community in the absence. Sure, we have some PUAs who are experienced and willing to help, but not at the same level as during the golden years. These new guys are still trying to cash too while the iron is hot. The majority of the community now is newbies who don't give much back, they only take - asking for new routines, more info, and help, but never contributing back to the community...then you have the hordes of KJs; an obvious result now that the game has gotten more popular. They dish out advice left and right, paint themselves as authorities, but they are never doing the things that the PUAs of old did: no FRs, no LRs, no new routines, no sharing their experiences. They want people to see them as the next Mystery or Style, but what they don't remember is that those guys started out as humble newbies at one point. Read the archives from those guys, their posts weren't written in a voice of authority. They didn't say, "I'm a great pickup artist, here is what you should do." There posts were written asking for feedback. Their posts were theories that they weren't totally sure of. Their posts were written in a voice saying, "Hey guys, what do you think of this idea? I seem to be having some pretty good experiences with it." There is no humility left in the game.

The golden era of the community is long gone and we'll never see anything like it again. That period can be best summed up in one quote: Back then, "the game was to be told, not sold."

[beachboy21]

Style was once an AFC, and he eventually became a PUA. We all know his story, he wasn't very good with the ladies which is true and he got good at this stuff, we can all agree upon that. The formula to attract, build comfort and seduce will always hold true in like 99% of all women. These are proven phases. However, I don't like the fact that everyone has to know about this, beacause if people do know it and point it out it can blow people's act out of the water. Maybe I'm wrong and everything will shift back to normal, but how many female 10's would you guys say exist in the United states? If everyone was a PUA, in the eyes of a 10 wouldn't we all be AFC's.

[Greystoke]

If everyone was a PUA, in the eyes of a 10 wouldn't we all be AFC's.

You dont even know what an AFC is. A- average. F- frustrated, C- chump.

If you know PU and you have GAME, you are no longer average.
If you know PU and you can get laid, you are no longer frustrated.
If you know PU and you are alpha, you are not a chump.

Someone who is not a PUA is not automatically an AFC.

There are many naturals and those who are half-naturals(they know some stuff about how to deal with women but they also sometimes supplicate and act needy).

If everyone knew PU, which is IMPOSSIBLE, then the one with the best tightest game and most attractive personality/looks, wins the girl.

[beachboy21]

If everyone new PU wouldn't that minimize options?

[MrEsquire]

Style was once an AFC, and he eventually became a PUA. We all know his story, he wasn't very good with the ladies which is true and he got good at this stuff, we can all agree upon that. The formula to attract, build comfort and seduce will always hold true in like 99% of all women. These are proven phases. However, I don't like the fact that everyone has to know about this, beacause if people do know it and point it out it can blow people's act out of the water. Maybe I'm wrong and everything will shift back to normal, but how many female 10's would you guys say exist in the United states? If everyone was a PUA, in the eyes of a 10 wouldn't we all be AFC's.

The book "The Game" probably got more press and publicity than the VH1 show will get. I know for a fact that the game has been referenced in pretty much every woman's mag out there. If everyone and their mom didn't become PUAs after The Game was released, it's not going to happen after this VH1 show. 8 episodes of a comedic reality show isn't going to turn everyone into PUAs. I'll even go out on a limb and say that the show will actually turn guys off from attempting to be a PUA. I just have a feeling it is going to be a very shallow look at the PUA community and most casual viewers will think it is hokey games taught by a weird-looking magician in a fuzzy top hat and goggles to loser guys to make them look silly on tv. Think Conan O'Brien Show: casual viewers thought Mystery was a joke. They say, "Ha, like this guy can help me pick up chicks."

Besides, let's face it, it's not like all this seduction stuff is a secret. A simple internet search can lead anyone with a computer to all the seduction material they will ever need. The key thing is, all guys aren't going to try to become PUAs. Some guys will think this stuff will never work. Some will have too much pride to admit this stuff could help them. Some will think it is all manipulative. Others just won't be willing to put the work it takes to be successful.

[Greystoke]

If everyone new PU wouldn't that minimize options?

It's counter-intuitive. The answer is NO.


btw, the video below has been released in early of 2006, about one year ago.

Tell me. Did you actually see that on tv?
Has MM stopped working back then?

http://www.current.tv/video/?id=1758929

VH1 shows are watched by even less people than a prime time tv news show.

Get out of the house. I am done with this thread.

[Enigma]

1) The VH1 Show and the Commercialization of Pickup

I honestly think the VH1 show will have very little effect in the grand scheme of things.


I agree with you, and I hope we are both right. :D

2) The Current State of "The Community"

In fact, the community just doesn't have those icons anymore. All the people who helped popularize the community are gone. They are off doing their own thing and charging mucho $$$ for it. That isn't really a problem; the problem is, nobody has filled-in in the community in the absence.


Here I only partially agree. I think that there still are those guys in the community who are really practicing and improving. But guess what, you won't find them easily because they disappear in the masses. In the golden times there was only one forum(a.s.f. alias m.a.s.f.). Nowadays there are hundreds.

I will give an example from my Lair. Although there are a lot of people in it, I only go out consistently with a group of 4,5 guys. But we sarge 3 nights a week and sometimes do daygame also. I try out a lot of stuff and talk it over with my wings and so do they. There are guys here who opened more than 800 sets, without taking any bootcamps. They are trying to improve and experimenting and feeling the pain of rejection all the time.

As for posting FR/LRs. I don't see much point in it. Why would you post a FR if all the theory is already there? The only reason for posting one would be if you really want to add something new, which I think is unlikely. If there is one thing I wish, is that people would post less! This would it make much easier to find quality information instead of having to wade through this giant quagmire that the forums have become. I already regret the time I spend writing on forums because honestly... it doesn't lead to anything. It's just a form of mental masturbation. Who do you think is gonna read this post here?

People who want to learn can buy all the material or do a bootcamp, no need to wade through the forums.

The community as such has changed. If you want to find guys like in the old time you have to look in your lair, look for people there who want to grow and experiment, and work from there.

Peace, Enigma

[MrEsquire]

Here I only partially agree. I think that there still are those guys in the community who are really practicing and improving. But guess what, you won't find them easily because they disappear in the masses. In the golden times there was only one forum(a.s.f. alias m.a.s.f.). Nowadays there are hundreds.

Sorry, I should've been more specific. I was referencing primarily the online community. There are tons of great PUAs, now more than ever, but their internet presence isn't the same as some of the guys during the "golden era". This is good or bad depending on how you look at it. Personally, it doesn't affect me because there is more than enough information out on the web for free, I like to create material and try new ideas in the field, and I exchange info and break down game with my wings and other friends who are PUAs.

More people should live by the quote: "The game is played in the field, not behind a keyboard." For anyone who is relatively new to the game: any time a new fear crops up in your head, get out in the field. You'll quickly realize that your fear was wholly unsubstantiated. It's called a paradigm shift. I used to always go, "What if this? What if that? What if, what if, what if???" Then I got out in the field and realized there was nothing to worry about.

[Navy236]

Equal and Navy: Thanks for bringing some well thought-out posts to this forum. I'm going to throw in my 2cents on: 1) the show and the commercialization of pickup and 2) the current state of the community. Let me know what you think.

1) The VH1 Show and the Commercialization of Pickup

I honestly think the VH1 show will have very little effect in the grand scheme of things. Some people think it will be a figurative doomsday for the community, but there are just too many things working against that. As previous posters have said, it sounds like this show is going to be far from a lecture on game. It sounds like it is going to be more of a "beauty and the geek" type show. More people will see it as a comedy. Another date show along the lines of "blind date", "fifth wheel", "next", etc and so on. I'm sure it will give away some routines, but having only a few routines exposed shouldn't be that big of a deal - there are literally hundreds more out there.

The community will never die, because it's never been centered around pickup or getting laid. Sure, that's the EXCUSE all the guys use for getting together, but the community doesn't rely on theory being advanced or people getting laid, or the methods working. Instead, it relies on guys getting together to TALK ABOUT this stuff. The field reports, lay reports are anecdotal and self-reported, filtered through moderation and censorship of things that go against what is popular or what is profitable. We don't know what the other half of a field or lay report looks like, we don't know if it was the method that worked or maybe something the guy is leaving out, and no one has ever done a true academic test of the methods. Now that we have "star" gurus, no one even checks to see the true origins of techniques. They think they're using a method from one guru without realizing the obscure source the guru may have found it. In short, it doesn't matter if the methods stop working because it never mattered if they worked in the first place, beyond a very slight improvement that any man can get with effort.

With standards that low, the community will never die. Guys will always get together to talk about this shit.


Furthermore, how many girls are going to really watch the show?

A better question is, "how many WOMEN are on the lookout for men using tactics to get them into bed?" Make that the subject of the show and women will pay attention. Thanks to YouTube, etc., the show will live forever, and be e-mailed and linked to on the net. So far, about two out of five women I talk to have heard of it. Still more will have game run on them from or because of the show, and the Red Queen will bring the information everywhere someone has something to gain from it being brought.

Those who say do not worry are still correct, because there's no point in giving up the game until it's truly exhausted, and we're not yet there. Get while the getting is good, then move on if you have to. It won't be an explosion that destroys the value of the material, but an erosion over time. The truly dead pickup lines (such as "come here often?" or "what's your sign?") still work from time to time, and I'm sure they had their day back in the 30s or 70s or whatever.

People who think that men have been told to be AFC all their lives usually are young and were born in the 1970s or 1980s, which is when AFCs were actually getting laid. That so many men became AFC should let you know the same thing is about to happen to PUAs. It's not that men bought into lies, because at one time they weren't lies. AFC men really DID get laid, and got laid because they were AFC and "in touch with their feminine side." Phil Donahue got Marlo Thomas by being an AFC. There was once actual success in that approach to be had.


I doubt it is going to be a huge number. Hell, Keys to the VIP plays daily where I live and nobody I know has even heard of it - I actually have girls come over and watch it with me! Beyond that, even if a girl does watch it, weeks after the show is over, will she be calling out guys left and right in bars by saying, "Are you a pickup artist?" or, "Was that a neg?" I highly doubt it. Most girls won't remember details like that from a basically insignificant show. Most people, especially women, are too wrapped up in themselves to remember that kind of stuff weeks after the show is off their radar.

This is not a one-dimensional equation:

1. You get the women who call you out.

2. You get the AFC rivals who call you out and cockblock you. You won't be able to deny the community since they can show the target themselves.

3. You get the quality targets removed from the market by other PUAs who get to her before you did, something more and more likely to occur as more and more men become "card counters" (reference to blackjack's advantage that died with mainstreaming). The market just becomes more efficient, and more difficult for any man to become a standout in because lots of men have access to the "profitable" information. The pool of available hotties is not infinite. Every time a new PUA gets skills (he DOES get skills, right?), that's more competition for the same pool, just like in chess it is easier to win the world championship now that Kasparov has retired, as it was after Fischer retired.

4. You get AFCs who might not be able to master the material, but who figure out enough to stop supplicating or being a chump. They don't get laid, but they don't get exploited either, and the hotties lose a valuable resource. They can stop the AFC's weak game, but they can't open his wallet by force. The hottie who loses an AFC's resources won't have time to have her "fun" with the PUA. Plus, if the AFC stops supplicating, she starts seeing him as more alpha.

5. You get women who had game run on them in the past figuring out what went down. Some will not be thrilled at this.

To me, 3) is the key concern, because it's the most logical result: more and more men learn this stuff until too many are using it and it loses its value. This has already happened a lot since 1998, with the watering down of standards.


(continued next post)...

[Navy236]

And to take that to another level, even if they are in a bar and you come up and run some game on her, if you are any good, she won't even notice you are running game. Negs, cocky/funny, fun games and stories (ie routines), etc were around long before "the community". You know why? It's because that's what works! Being funny, busting on girls, being interesting and telling fun stories aren't things you'll be called out on.

The structure and sequence are what is standardized, as is the agenda. The actual behavior is secondary to this. Still, go back to 3) above, because even if what you say is true, the supply side (the PUAs) is going to run game, get the women, and drain the pool. After Beat The Dealer, every last casino in the United States that didn't switch to six-deck blackjack got hit. That's Red Queen 101.


Especially if the girl is wrapped up in the conversation - even if she knows exactly what is going on, she'll be too blinded by her emotional attraction to pick up logically on what you are doing, or she will just make justifications and tell herself that you aren't running game.

Do you want her rationalizing today and hating you tomorrow? I never liked that idea. Beyond that, women are not emotional when it comes to choosing men. They are extremely cold and calculating. Where emotions come in is how they implement that calculating behavior, often reading YOUR emotions and using them in place of logic. This is something every guy can pick up on. To see if she thinks you'll succeed at something, she'll read your body language and try to judge your passion for something, and your confidence in what you're saying, to satisfy that logical aim of judging you. She also might just be a slut out to get laid, and while the sex still counts, she might be the one picking you up.

Back to 3) again: if she can't stop it, you can't stop the crush of guys who will exploit it.


Here's an analogy: lawyers often times don't see things for what they are because they are so colored by their legal bias. Sometimes they need a "lay person" to come along and give their opinion. This is effective because lawyers often forget that "lay people" really don't know anything about the law beyond popular culture (which is full of incorrect information) and pervasive myths would have them believe. Try asking people what the difference between an assault and a battery is...most people think they are the exact same thing. I think this subjective blindness happens to people in the community too. If you were to take an outsider and have them break down a sarge, they would have no idea that you're using negs, routines, etc.[quote]

Here we go again: if we're selling workshops, the methods are easy to learn, but if we're worried about mainstreaming, they're so difficult most men will never understand them.


[quote]They'd just see it as a normal, fun, flirty interaction. However, since we are so used to dissecting this kind of stuff, we see all the minute details and affix labels to everything. It's the same way a lawyer looks at a situation and thinks purely in legal terms - they often forget that regular people don't think like that because they are so used to thinking that way themselves!

The "legalese" of the community is more product-driven than theory driven. Basic theory has been so well established that it's not that profitable to sell anymore, so it has to be made complex.

You want to know how the mainstreaming that has already gone down has affected us? Progress is now made in inches when it used to be made in miles. TD's "secret society" post shatters an AFC's reality in a groundbreaking way. Changing an A1-C3 model to say A1-D5 is not the same thing. Same thing can be said for negs and all the old theory, since that went directly against AFC beliefs. That major hurdle has been cleared, even with the public.

What people don't get is that this isn't going to happen overnight. Might take another 5-10 years even. A show here, a book there, a movie there, and eventually Oprah warning every woman in the country about it. That's when the fun begins, though, because what are they going to tell the nice guys to do instead? Keep failing when they don't have to?

Mainstreaming is also going to have to deal with the role played by women in rewarding this behavior. My analogy is social proof. Guys buy product based on it, even though the products teach them it's a manipulation. Obviously, it's not the mistake people think if knowing about it doesn't cure it. More like guys don't want to admit they value it, just like women don't want to admit why they choose the PUA. Her desire for her PUA and to keep her reputation intact for the AFC is on a collision course.


I went into "Books-A-Million" yesterday to buy a few books and magazines. And I shit you not, right in the front of the store, front and center, on a shelf full of featured books for "reading out on the beach this summer" was "The Game." How's that for exposure? And believe me, reading that book cover-to-cover will definitely give away more routines, tactics, and community information that the VH1 show ever will.

Yet people are more likely to watch video than read books, and videos are far more instructive.

(continued next post)....

[Navy236]

2) The Current State of "The Community"

Despite the fact that there are more ebooks than ever, more forums, tv shows, and print books about seduction, the community is in a decline. Look at the major forums: the posting there is a mere fraction of what it once was. Seduction has simultaneously reached a point of being watered down along with having a near halt of new material and creative thinkers.

There's a lot more going on than just that. People don't realize how this community was built, and if they did, they'd understand all of its problems that will be coming to light in the next year or so as the real truth comes out. The reason it will come out is that the message boards will be dominated by media outlets rather than guru affiliates, and censorship of dissent won't be possible.

Look at the "golden age" of pickup: this is when you had ideas flowing back and forth. Everything was new and PUAs were embarking on this journey together. Style, Mystery, ToeCutter, Juggler, TylerDurden, Gunwitch...and many more that I'm forgetting: the golden age was when they were still relatively new to the game. They weren't idolized gods at that point. They were still going through trial and error, creating new routines, bouncing ideas of one another, and excitedly posting FRs and LRs.

That was not the golden age, but several years past it. The real source of the base theory of PU was the many free contributors to the old-school message boards, dating back to the Prodigy boards in the early 1990s. The gurus were often commercially oriented and collected a lot of theory from individuals to formulate their methods. That source material is gone, and everyone is still turning to the gurus as if they had those sources.

Style was sent on a journalistic mission, at a time when Mystery had just figured out how to break the bank as a guru, by establishing the workshop niche. Mystery also networked through his students such as Style and was able to penetrate the media, clearing the critical credibility hurdle that was delaying mainstreaming. Women especially respond to social proof, and for years they ignored this stuff when it was "just on the internet" but once they see it in the mainstream, especially VH-1 and more especially Oprah, they take it seriously.

What also separates this stuff from shows like Keys is that this theory works. It's what's always separated it. It's the truth and can't be refuted so easily.


All the most popular and major routines weren't created for an online forum. They were created by Style, TD, Mystery, Juggler, etc in the field and in real life. These guys had wings that they would bounce ideas off of. They'd sit around and think up new routines. They'd field test relentlessly. They'd dissect their sticking points. I'll use Style and Mystery as the example: what they did to create their routines was nothing special. They were just 2 guys out there in the field having fun, creating routines, and seeing if they worked. It just so happens that they also decided to post their experiences on the internet while they were going through them. It's not rocket science, but we don't see that type of ingenuity in the game anymore. People are out reading forums for the next best routine instead of getting out in the field and creating their own silly stories and games.

By then, they weren't changing the fundamental theory, just refining it. Those are small steps compared to the quantum leaps that occurred in 1995-2000. Today's quantum leaps are going to attack the PUA the way the PUA attacked the AFC. It'll come with techniques that go against what's being taught to the masses.

It'll also only be taught to wealthy men, because that's who it pays to teach. At $5k per customer, one doesn't need too many "whales" to get by in life, and if you're going to give up the game, why do it cheap? It'll be taught to women, because women are still beginners and will buy books teaching it. Look for a slew of them after VH-1, and there are already a few now.


In fact, the community just doesn't have those icons anymore. All the people who helped popularize the community are gone. They are off doing their own thing and charging mucho $$$ for it. That isn't really a problem; the problem is, nobody has filled-in in the community in the absence.

Why should they? Rich men will pay fortunes to solve this part of their lives. The question is, are they really solving it by using theory that everyone has now?


Sure, we have some PUAs who are experienced and willing to help, but not at the same level as during the golden years. These new guys are still trying to cash too while the iron is hot. The majority of the community now is newbies who don't give much back, they only take - asking for new routines, more info, and help, but never contributing back to the community...then you have the hordes of KJs; an obvious result now that the game has gotten more popular.

Here's some food for thought: maybe not all people are like this, just the ones you pay attention to? Perhaps the narcissism of the gurus is what attracted you and their customer base to them? You might have been manipulated by manufactured social proof and "gamed" for your money as a hot chick is gamed for sex, and you might just be mad that you backed the wrong horse.

It might just not pay to be honest in this business. If so, don't complain about the end result of the reward system the customer base has set in place. I see AFCs whining about gurus the way HBs whine about badboys.


They dish out advice left and right, paint themselves as authorities, but they are never doing the things that the PUAs of old did: no FRs, no LRs, no new routines, no sharing their experiences. They want people to see them as the next Mystery or Style, but what they don't remember is that those guys started out as humble newbies at one point. Read the archives from those guys, their posts weren't written in a voice of authority. They didn't say, "I'm a great pickup artist, here is what you should do." There posts were written asking for feedback. Their posts were theories that they weren't totally sure of. Their posts were written in a voice saying, "Hey guys, what do you think of this idea? I seem to be having some pretty good experiences with it." There is no humility left in the game.

Actually, Mystery more or less did say that, but he had done years of field testing, as had many of us before the internet took off. We had to go out!

The real problem is that today's experts may be out of answers on what to do tomorrow, and the customer base doesn't reward anyone who might step in. You won't see the top gurus endorsing their replacements anytime soon.


The golden era of the community is long gone and we'll never see anything like it again. That period can be best summed up in one quote: Back then, "the game was to be told, not sold."

It still is, if people can find a way to get it paid for by sponsors like Leykis does. Putting all the profits in the hands of a few gurus is what killed it, because you have maybe a dozen guys working on solving the new theory instead of hundreds or thousands. They didn't share the wealth with others who built the theory, so the others stopped contributing. Like when the Lakers got rid of the supporting cast, and the Pistons were able to neutralize them to the point where Kobe and Shaq would combine for 59 points and their teammates would manage only 16.

Of all the possible new tactics, some of them will work even on 10s. They won't be this structure, or anything at all like what you've read. They'll be as unique, innovative, and unused as this stuff was a long time ago. The guy who can use that to get 10s isn't going to give it up for anything less than a media gig or a book deal, nor should he.

[MrEsquire]

Here's some food for thought: maybe not all people are like this, just the ones you pay attention to? Perhaps the narcissism of the gurus is what attracted you and their customer base to them? You might have been manipulated by manufactured social proof and "gamed" for your money as a hot chick is gamed for sex, and you might just be mad that you backed the wrong horse.

It might just not pay to be honest in this business. If so, don't complain about the end result of the reward system the customer base has set in place. I see AFCs whining about gurus the way HBs whine about badboys.
.

Well, the only "seduction" book I ever purchased was "The Game". And, I was very happy with my purchase as it was a very entertaining book. I actually didn't even need to buy it considering that I already had the ebook version of it, but I wanted to have a text version and I was very happy with my purchase. (Technically, I used a gift card to buy it, so I can literally say I have spent zero of my own dollars on seduction material).

[Enigma]

We can't turn back the wheel of history, so changes are inevitable.
The thing I'm most worried about is the competition of PUAs draining the available HBs. All you can do is to train as hard as you can to become as good as possible.

I would like to make an analogy with computer game programming. Back in the old days you could become rich by making a 4K game for the Atari. Nowadays game programming is a huge business and it's very competitive. Maybe we are in for the same regarding PU?

Good luck... keep on sarging and stop whining.

[TruePlayer]

Guys claiming to be worried about the VH1/mainstream exposure killing their game are really just masking their insecurities regarding their own (small) penis sizes.

[beachboy21]

I agree that there will be limitatioms on getting HBs. But maybe we'll all have to eventually settle for a little less attractive women, which somewhat defeats the purpose of pick up. However being good at this stuff still can yield quality women. There needs to be like a group of rebels determined to branch off and restore the communitie's secrecy with new ideas and new game.

[Waltradomous]

Guys claiming to be worried about the VH1/mainstream exposure killing their game are really just masking their insecurities regarding their own (small) penis sizes.

Awwwww, are you upset? I love the guys who come into an otherwise thought provoking discussion with insults like that. Many totally valid points are being made--an angry blanket statement like the one I quoted from you doesn't change that.

[Navy236]

I agree that there will be limitatioms on getting HBs. But maybe we'll all have to eventually settle for a little less attractive women, which somewhat defeats the purpose of pick up. However being good at this stuff still can yield quality women. There needs to be like a group of rebels determined to branch off and restore the communitie's secrecy with new ideas and new game.

The rank-and-file needs to set up a system that rewards new ideas over brand names.

[Equal]

Navy - I am setting up a board for just routines, openers, negs and field reports - no selling - no gurus - no bs - NO THEORY which is KJ stuff. Just guys that want to improve and have fun in the field. Very old school.

Equal

[Navy236]

Navy - I am setting up a board for just routines, openers, negs and field reports - no selling - no gurus - no bs - NO THEORY which is KJ stuff. Just guys that want to improve and have fun in the field. Very old school.

Equal

That was done too. It later became FS 101. Can't stop the commercial forces. Soon as someone gets popular, they cash in.

The problem is that people put millions of dollars into the wrong hands, thinking they were paying the source. They weren't. The sources went home and put the knowledge into practice themselves.

You think anyone who saw their hard work turn up in another guru's product is going to keep feeding them? There are new methods that work as well now as the old ones did years ago. There are no reasons for the people who have them to step forward, no matter the format.

[Randel Flagg]

Equal

It sounds fantastic. Finally an old school forum again. Let me know

[beachboy21]

It's true that when people discover something they tend to bottle it up and sell it. If I'm not mistaken speed seduction came in the 80's by Ross whom I recently bumped in to. But I guess back then there was never really a community but I'm sure he played a part in initiating something. I always wonder what happened to other gurus besides Style or Mystery like for instance Rasputin, you never hear about him.

[Randel Flagg]

Are you talking about Hypnotica (Rasputin)? He was around in and earlier thread similar to this thread. He had some good input. I love his inner game stuff. It is so deep. He discussed some real valid points on alpha body language in Style's Annihilation Method and David D's body laguage seminar. He's is very cut and dry. I wish he would post more here. Of all gurus, I believe his material is the most valuable of all. It has little to do with pickup but more with self improvment; which recently has been the subject of several forum threads. I believe his material would serve alot of newbies well and I highly reccomend it for even some of us seasoned guys. His material is the backbone of my game. Without it my inner and outer congruence sucks. I'd love to give Mystery credit for all of my game, but the foundation of my game is based on Hypnotica's fmaterial and a mixture of Ross Jeffries NLP, Davids Cocky funny, Tyler Ds in your face, and of course MM/

I believe a mixture of this material is the only way my game can survive especially with the commercialization of the community. Hopefully the rest keep the commercialization to a minimum.

[Hypnotica]

I always wonder what happened to other gurus besides Style or Mystery like for instance Rasputin, you never hear about him.

MAn you make me feel older than i really am.LOL
Don't worry about me i am lurking in the shadows. I don't really care to much for the limelight. I been here since the beginning and i will be here for years to come.

[Mehow]

Hypnotica is the bomb. Just a few of his exercies helped me a ton. I love working with the guy. I can say with 100% certainty that Hypnotica is the chillest most down to earth pickup master on planet earth.

-m

[Navy236]

Hypnotica is the bomb. Just a few of his exercies helped me a ton. I love working with the guy. I can say with 100% certainty that Hypnotica is the chillest most down to earth pickup master on planet earth.

-m


Get a room.

[Navy236]

It's true that when people discover something they tend to bottle it up and sell it. If I'm not mistaken speed seduction came in the 80's by Ross whom I recently bumped in to. But I guess back then there was never really a community but I'm sure he played a part in initiating something. I always wonder what happened to other gurus besides Style or Mystery like for instance Rasputin, you never hear about him.

NLP was Bandler and Grinder, while NLP seduction was first written about by Dr. Tracy Cabot, author of "How To Make Any Man Fall In Love With You," which came out in 1985. Ross obviously devoted more time to it since then and applied it to men.

[Navy236]

MAn you make me feel older than i really am.LOL
Don't worry about me i am lurking in the shadows. I don't really care to much for the limelight. I been here since the beginning and i will be here for years to come.

Popularity through cross-promotion...gotta love it.

Very easy to get known when one can advertise where your competition can't. Almost like a rigged game in one's favor, in fact.

A group of six or a dozen gurus create a mutual-admiration society on the net, promote each other's websites, which restrict promotion of competing products, they get ahead (often "incorporating" the methods of those who are excluded), the media notices them and no one else (since the websites the media finds is restricted to this little group), and now they are all about to become famous.

If Hypnotica were a true alpha he would not advertise his wares on websites that don't let his competitors advertise on equal terms. That unfair advantage he and others have leads to increased business and social proof, and increased status. What it doesn't lead to is increased creativity, innovation, or idea evolution at a time when it's most necessary. The rank-and-file rewards this behavior because it doesn't give a shit about the behind-the-scenes stuff.

He teaches inner game? Is he licensed to practice psychology, because that sounds a lot like therapy. He's not licensed? There's a word for that, can't remember it, but if it walks like a duck...if you wouldn't let a strange man hypnotize your daughter, ever wonder about the wisdom of letting one hypnotize YOU? When you learn NLP, do you learn it to go use it on other MEN?

What good is confidence if your routines have been busted?

It's easy to act like a great guy when a game is rigged in one's favor. Hypnotica has that down pat. When his alpha act is challenged, however, would the same personality hold? Same for all these guys once the genei is out of the bottle in a few weeks and their cries to the VH-1 or IMDB message boards to shut up their critics fall on deaf ears.

[Navy236]

Hypnotica is the bomb. Just a few of his exercies helped me a ton. I love working with the guy. I can say with 100% certainty that Hypnotica is the chillest most down to earth pickup master on planet earth.

-m

Mehow's another guy who gets famous in part because he can advertise his product line on a site where most of his competitors cannot. Notice here he's promoting another guru who has the same advantage. Nice little mutual admiration society going on there.

The rank-and-file is stuck with the "chosen ones" to bring them ahead regardless of their actual contribution to the theory. If you think the "excluded ones" are so dumb as to give away the store twice, good luck with that. Right now you got about a half-dozen guys who would profit from innovation, in an era where innovation is more difficult, and when the original innovators numbered in the hundreds of men who were doing it just to tell the truth rather than make money.

I don't doubt that hypnotica's hypnosis stuff is useful, though being hypnotized by other men who know NLP has never been something I'd jump up and down about. After all, what do NLP seducers teach men to do with women?

[relics]

Someone woke up on the wrong side of the cynicism bed this morning.

[coolguy]

Hypnotica seems like a pretty low key guy. I have no idea how this thread went from being about the VH1 show to insulting a guy who offers advice free of charge.

I have my own skeptism about NLP. It has been critized in the academic circles, and you will notice it is not part of a psychology program. I don't think there's any empirical evidence to suggest it is effective. Therefore, I wouldn't waste my time/money being bothered with it. However, does anyone have any ideawhen the series airs?

[beachboy21]

To be a little off topic, I hear some people with mixed opinions on NLP. Some say it's bogus other say it can work pretty well. Has anyone pulled 10's with it. And what about guys like Zan or Lance, I've seen clips of them but do they offer much in the way of pick up, I don't know a lot about them.

[Randel Flagg]

I have had mixed sucess with NLP. Ive k-closed a bunch of HB9 but I had to combine the NLP with some MM and cocky funny to get it to work. Thats why I was saying that it is the basis of my game but you definaltey need other methods amd material to make it work.

I am sure that if you have excellent body language and speach skills you could pull it off sucessfully. Unfortunately, Ive tried and it does not work well alone for me. Plus, I find that it didnt work well in a loud or club atmophere because you have to speak slow and keep the attention of a woman until you hit the proper buttons. I find that its enough just to keep a girls attention in a club (which is typically short attention span anyway) with everything else going on there. It just my observation. I am sure there are some guys in here that have mastered the art of NLP. Maybe Hypnotica could give us a little more advice on the topic.

[Hypnotica]

Popularity through cross-promotion...gotta love it.

Very easy to get known when one can advertise where your competition can't. Almost like a rigged game in one's favor, in fact.

A group of six or a dozen gurus create a mutual-admiration society on the net, promote each other's websites, which restrict promotion of competing products, they get ahead (often "incorporating" the methods of those who are excluded), the media notices them and no one else (since the websites the media finds is restricted to this little group), and now they are all about to become famous.

If Hypnotica were a true alpha he would not advertise his wares on websites that don't let his competitors advertise on equal terms. That unfair advantage he and others have leads to increased business and social proof, and increased status. What it doesn't lead to is increased creativity, innovation, or idea evolution at a time when it's most necessary. The rank-and-file rewards this behavior because it doesn't give a shit about the behind-the-scenes stuff.

He teaches inner game? Is he licensed to practice psychology, because that sounds a lot like therapy. He's not licensed? There's a word for that, can't remember it, but if it walks like a duck...if you wouldn't let a strange man hypnotize your daughter, ever wonder about the wisdom of letting one hypnotize YOU? When you learn NLP, do you learn it to go use it on other MEN?

What good is confidence if your routines have been busted?

It's easy to act like a great guy when a game is rigged in one's favor. Hypnotica has that down pat. When his alpha act is challenged, however, would the same personality hold? Same for all these guys once the genei is out of the bottle in a few weeks and their cries to the VH-1 or IMDB message boards to shut up their critics fall on deaf ears.

Bro, Before you make such judgments against me you might want to get your facts straight before spewing incorrect dogma.

I have been helping guys for over 9 years in the community, so has almost every other guy you are talking about. There is a reason we are doing what we are doing because we enjoy it and all the hard work, dedication, study has brought about opportunity in more then a few ways. I look at the world from a place of abundance and that is what i try to teach.

You say i am not licensed? Try the Americal council of Hypnotists and the American institute of Hypnotherapy, Multiple NLP certifications hundreds of books under my belt as well as thousands of hours in session work. Before you start spilling your incorrect viewpoints get your facts straight.

If you have ever followed any of my posts i do not avocate patterns or routines. I wish every women would know about "the game" it would free a lot more men up to become more creative. My game is not based upon any routine it is based upon the fact that i believe in myself and have built a solid foundation from years of self discovery.

If you put out a product you believed would help people wouldn't you want to get to as many people who could benifit from it? I welcome competition why? because i never look at it as competition i look at it as learning opportunities to increase my knowledge from other sources. I have paid many times to increase my knowledge and as long as you look at the world from an abundant viewpoint you won't grip about people earning money or any other seemly small things . I know it takes a lot of hard work and hundreds of hours to bring together a product and as long as i learn something it is worth it to me.

Not sure what your grip is however, you might want to relax a little and enjoy more. There are too many good thing going on around you to focus on negative things.
Good luck,
Hypnotica

[Hypnotica]

I have had mixed sucess with NLP. Ive k-closed a bunch of HB9 but I had to combine the NLP with some MM and cocky funny to get it to work. Thats why I was saying that it is the basis of my game but you definaltey need other methods amd material to make it work.

I am sure that if you have excellent body language and speach skills you could pull it off sucessfully. Unfortunately, Ive tried and it does not work well alone for me. Plus, I find that it didnt work well in a loud or club atmophere because you have to speak slow and keep the attention of a woman until you hit the proper buttons. I find that its enough just to keep a girls attention in a club (which is typically short attention span anyway) with everything else going on there. It just my observation. I am sure there are some guys in here that have mastered the art of NLP. Maybe Hypnotica could give us a little more advice on the topic.

Nlp is not the answer, Hypnosis is not the answer, M/M is not the answer, speed seduction is not the answer etc....There are no absolutes in the game. Everything you learn just adds to your tool box. I have been intimate with women without saying a word. everything can work. The extent of your study can only increase your odds to become more defined as a well rounded individual which in itself will make you more attractive to the opposite sex. Focus on enjoying your own life and becoming more interesting and it will spill over into every other area of your life.
I hope this helps,
Hypnotica

[beachboy21]

There's other methods of game that's still out there and surfacing. like the guy from charisma arts, he's sort of has his own spin on things much like everyone else but yet another piece of the puzzle. The Europeans may have mastered this stuff, like badboy with instant pick up. Some pua's do not endorce it either but they may have gotten on to something. There could be thousands of things we still don't know.

[Randel Flagg]

Thank you Hypnotica. I appreciate the post. you cleared up quite a bit for me.

[X-Press]

Do the inner game and NLP stuff work better for some people than others? I tried some and I haven't gotten any results. I think it might have something to do with me unconscioulsy not beliving in it? Though I totally see how it would work logically.

[Hypnotica]

Do the inner game and NLP stuff work better for some people than others? I tried some and I haven't gotten any results. I think it might have something to do with me unconscioulsy not beliving in it? Though I totally see how it would work logically.

absolutley. whether you think or can or can't your right.
Some people build it in a number of different ways.

[honzarox]

Apparently this is the trailer for the show...looks like a cheaper version of keys 2 the vip?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVA4YXX0Au8

[Limelight]

Apparently this is the trailer for the show...looks like a cheaper version of keys 2 the vip?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVA4YXX0Au8

Is this really the right one? If so I'm disappointed. No Mystery, no teaching unskilled guys...just a remix of Keys to the VIP. Well, it's just a teaser so we'll see...

[Matador]

this is NOT the show

[Randel Flagg]

Who is the broad telling the AFCs to get the numbers?? That was kind of amusing.

So its starting. If that isnt the show, then the curse of the reality shows has started. There will be multiple competing PUA shows. Fantastic! even mopre exposure fucken great

[Mehow]

um ... that youtube is definitley NOT the show. somebody is jacking the name. not cool. whoever that is, if they post here, should be banned.

-m

[Randel Flagg]

I agree with you Mehow

[honzarox]

Lol i didnt make it or anything, just got sent the link by a friend...sorry then:)

Happy its not the real thing tho:D

[beachboy21]

With this VH1 show, it could put PU in the mainstraem. I could see someone like Ashton Coocher (not sure how it's spelt) trying to use some of these tactics. I mean this is good for Mystery, he'll probably end up in a lot of interviews, maybe you'll catch him on MTV or as a mainstream celebrity but a lot of people will want to know about this stuff, therefore it will water it down. I just want to know what changed the community, most people would agree it was better a few years ago, so where did this whole thing go wrong, was it commercialization or simply because most everything was dicovered?

[ReallyPatheticFatSlob]

The votes are in, BAN honzarox.

[honzarox]

The votes are in, BAN honzarox.

And the reason being? I had nothing to do with making the trailer, just thought that you might appreciate it. Given that i had nothing to do with making it, i couldnt know that it wasnt the real thing and that is the reason why i posted it here...

[Jester2b04]

I cringe at the idea of Mystery's VH1 show. Don't get me wrong, I believe Mystery is truly a remarkable contemporary genius on the subject of pick up. However, by doing this show, he is not only exposing his famed routines that thousands of men have been using, he is also exposing the entire "pick up" community as a whole to mainstream America. This can't be denied. The female audience tested better than males for this show. Look how popular Flavor of Love, I Love New York became. This was America's guilty pleasure. WOmen and men from all walks of life were hooked. People WILL be watching.
The fact that women all over the country will start recognizing that men are actively seeking pick up help can't be ignored. This will give women power. I understand exposure to the community had been there before through The Game, but it's this is a Reality TV show on a Popular network that maybe not us, but chicks watch. Visual is stronger than anything written. Even if the show will concentrate more on the characters rather than PU material.
Eventually if most men are trying to be alpha males at social places ( PUAs, or natural Alphas) then women will still have the choice of going for men with Money, Looks, and Status. AFCs who want to be PUAs are at a disadvantage once again. I believed that in the beginning the whole point of learning these techniques was to even out the playing field for AFCs. But now these tactics will be available for just about everyone to exploit.
I learned about Mystery from The Game, and was interested in buying his new book for more tactics to use, but what is the point anymore if the structure is all out in the open now. I'll save my money. It won't hurt Mystery's pocket, since he's got his own new show now followed by higher celebrity status.

[Reborn]

Approaching a group of people is kind of unusual. Most people never do this once in their lives except maybe to ask for the time or directions. See, the arguements against routines and openers are moot. The very act of opening may have you pegged as 'one of those guys' if this stuff goes on tv. I can assure you, I'm sitting in a coffee shop right now as I type this, no one is opening anyone. And it's not going to happen, and if it did, it would be very noticeable. But, you know, maybe the guy knows someone in the group???? However...when the VH1 show goes to air, and then to youtube, Google Video, and the other vid sites, and then the follow-up 'reality pickup shows'.....any one approaching any of the groups sitting in here will stand a good chance of being 'spotted'.
So, if I were in a group and I do know this stuff, a pickup artist would approach us and I'd just politely say "please, could you leave us alone, we're having a private time together"...if he tried 'stacking' I'd cut him off , get up and deal with the guy politely, but firmly, and that is what I'm concerned will end up happening.

[Randel Flagg]

Hey

what if all of this stuff is a set up. Nystey has been deemed as some super PUA. Hes also a great marketer along with a handful of his buddies. What if he was exposing all of this material in the event of releasing a new method. I mean, if all of our stuff is exposed it would not work anymore and he has probably been working on some new stuff; new ways of approach. By exposing the community,he could develop another instructional book to release. And of course we would all be expected to buy it. So, is it possible that this is a giant marketing sceme?

[Dynamism]

People WILL be watching.

That's why it's a TV show. Amazing how that works. =)

The fact that women all over the country will start recognizing that men are actively seeking pick up help can't be ignored.

Yes it can be ignored. I choose to ignore it. I am in denial. However women will still be PickededUp.

[Navy236]

Hey

what if all of this stuff is a set up. Nystey has been deemed as some super PUA. Hes also a great marketer along with a handful of his buddies. What if he was exposing all of this material in the event of releasing a new method. I mean, if all of our stuff is exposed it would not work anymore and he has probably been working on some new stuff; new ways of approach. By exposing the community,he could develop another instructional book to release. And of course we would all be expected to buy it. So, is it possible that this is a giant marketing sceme?

Guys will just get smarter overall, thus making it harder on everyone. It was inevitable.

If you don't create the material, you can't stop someone from cashing in on it because that's how you got the info too, just a little earlier.

[Equal]

just so you guys know we are pretty close to launching a new underground board. It will be invite only and will grow by referals. The idea will be to create new material. No one will be allowed to sell anything or use any of the material on tv shows and what not - it will all be copy protected. We are going to try and bring the creativity back into the community.

We will have some sort of email address you can email if you would like to participate but have not been invited. We are not looking to exclude, but we are not looking to run a KJ forum either. If you post on this forum you better have something field tested to say.

There will be ZERO posts on inner game and theory - if you want to cover that you can point out what you did in a REAL field report. I strongly believe this will virtually elliminate KJ issues.

The guys running the forum will have no right to the material either, I have no interest in making money off of pick up. I am already successfully and lucratively employed. I hope our forum will create some fun stuff.

Guys that want to focus on getting shit sold to them do not have to participate.

As for this show, mark my words it will backfire on the community and I believe ultimately hurt business.

Equal

[coolguy]

I was watching rock of love the other night at a chics house and I saw an ad for Mystery's show on VH1. It looks prettying fvcking funny, I think it's def. going to be worth watching. I think it is starting up next month.

[relics]

Material was soooo pre-The Game days. And I wasn't even in the community then....

[Dynamism]

I was watching rock of love the other night at a chics house and I saw an ad for Mystery's show on VH1. It looks prettying fvcking funny, I think it's def. going to be worth watching. I think it is starting up next month.

Are there any of the ads online so we can see them? My cable currently sucks and I don't get VH1.

Hell, I actually haven't watched TV in like 8 months... Hate that thing.

[Jester2b04]

Dynamism Quote:
Hell, I actually haven't watched TV in like 8 months... Hate that thing.

I'm surprised to hear this, since most girls love to talk about popular culture and their stupid reality shows or series they watch on TV. I was wondering how do you deal with girls bringing that up, without seeming like you're out of the loop.

[Navy236]

I have no interest in making money off of pick up. I am already successfully and lucratively employed.

Almost every successful guru was anti-commercial in the beginning, built an audience on that basis, then converted it down the road. First it's "I'm here to help people" then it's "bandwidth is expensive" and then "he's done so much it's only right he get compensated." The mailing list alone for such a board would be worth about $2.00 a name per use.

You have more money than the guys you expect to provide you with new ideas without compensation, and for them to do it while Mystery runs to the bank. You want to stand out for being "successful" the way a 10 wants to stand out for her looks, and you want to put out money about as much as she wants to put out sex.

Do you really think some mail room clerk who can outpull you is going to give you his advantge without sharing in yours? Keep dreaming. If you don't want to pay, get some new guys a book deal or something so they can get paid by helping you.

[honzarox]

Well, im here to undo all the horrible things i have done:)

Apparently this is the OFFICIAL trailer? (15 sec. long)

Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq3fTXvCkS0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Evh1mystery%2Ecom%2F%3Fp%3D 5)

[Englishbob]

Really think about it, does it really matter if people know or dont know?

so what if its a good or a bad thing. ITS GONNA HAPPEN WHEATHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT!

simple as. its beyond your control and you canot do anything to stop it.

but what you can do is become the best that you are.

think about it. every human leap of thinking and progression started when big tings changed - if this was a big change then you guys not only have a head start, but will be able to build upon it.

if people learn PU on a mass scale all it really means is that more guys will get laid - the number of men in the secret society will grow a little, nothing more.


its not the end of the world - its not like the millenium disaster that people predicted. most likely after the show nothing will happen. people will watch the show and forget about it.

so get over it.
stop anyalysing your own BS.

get over yourselves.

stop moaning.

go out of the house and work the crowd guys.

[Equal]

Navy - It is clear you are Ray. Your negativity is useless and I have no desire to be a guru - dont worry about our new site.

[Dynamism]

Well, im here to undo all the horrible things i have done:)

Apparently this is the OFFICIAL trailer? (15 sec. long)

Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq3fTXvCkS0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Evh1mystery%2Ecom%2F%3Fp%3D 5)

Yup, and this seems to be the site:
http://www.vh1mystery.com/?page_id=2

[X-Press]

That's some random site made by someone unrelated to VH1, it seems like.

[X-Press]

I find it funny that VH1 doesn't even have the show listed in their website. Have they been doing any promotions for the show on TV? The youtube video doesn't show anything related to VH1 either. It would be funny if this whole thing was a joke.

[Randel Flagg]

The trailer was kind of goofy. There all virgins?? Man he got some work ahead of him in six episodes. I thought the guys in the Annihilation method videos needed help.

It almost looks like the guys are set get tooled on in this show. I dont know if thats a good example of the community considering were all here to help each other.

[Navy236]

Navy - It is clear you are Ray. Your negativity is useless and I have no desire to be a guru - dont worry about our new site.

Equal,

Are you accusing me of being Ray, the author of these free books:

Outfoxing The Foxes
29 Reasons Not To Be A Nice Guy (includes debut of the pivot technique)
Perfect Seduction
Why Hotties Choose Losers?

You're accusing me of being THAT Ray?

Man I get that all the time.

[Equal]

I know you are that guy and those books are good but you are too negative. I am setting up a forum for guys to trade ideas, that is all. I dont want to sell anything, I dont consider myself a guru - I think all that is nonsense. But you point out flaws - I don't get it.

Equal

[beachboy21]

when we all first heard about PU didn't that intrigue us all? We all wanted to learn more about it. What makes people think that there aren't a ton of guys out there, that, if they did hear about PU they would just not even care about it. Of course they would care just like we care. This is why the community will probably build momentum. A simple fact, a lot of guys want to know ways to get women.

[Charybdis]

Hello!

I live in Middle-Europe. How can I watch the VH-1 show? I havent got antenne. (I dont watch TV much)

So, can I download the show later? Or can I watch it online? Help, I dont want to miss it!!!!! :)

[spearhead21]

I also won't be able to see it.
But I wouldn't worry too much as I'm sure more than one will put it in youtube.

[Navy236]

I know you are that guy and those books are good but you are too negative. I am setting up a forum for guys to trade ideas, that is all. I dont want to sell anything, I dont consider myself a guru - I think all that is nonsense. But you point out flaws - I don't get it.

Equal

Who I am or am not doesn't mean shit, it's the ideas that are supposed to count.

BUT, for argument's sake, say you were the first to develop something used by the entire "community," something like the pivot. Now say you saw other gurus teaching it and not even reminding people you created it. Now let's say you saw people USING your incredible creation, not realizing it was yours, and then badmouthing you because they were told to. Now you have guys using your method, not knowing or caring it's yours, not compensating you properly for proven work, and attacking you as knowing nothing while they're using your shit to get better women than they ever got in their lives. Now imagine being censored because no one wants anyone finding out who the real brain was. For good measure, imagine having your creation quoted in a bestselling book whose author "forgot" to attribute you, costing you god-knows-what in what your creation should have brought you.

When you're done with that, imagine what it's like to write a "lifestyle" seduction book five years before other gurus even understood the concept (until they got money, most gurus couldn't fathom lifestyle since they never got approached), then watch guru after guru start confusing ASSETS with SKILLS, call it "game," and charge 100 times (literally) as much for the same information.

Fast-forward to the point where the pivot and the other creations lose their value, say by a mainstream television show, and the rank-and-file wants new ideas.

If you had given this rank and file the pivot, and all you got for it was plagiarized, insulted, and attacked by those who use your very tactic (and your lifestyle approach in general), how many NEW IDEAS would you part with? Answer: none. You'd laugh your head off as the information stolen from you becomes absolutely, posiitvely WORTHLESS, then you'd realize that teaching women to stop this stuff is more proftiable than teaching a bunch of thieves, assholes, liars, and people who didn't give you proper credit in the first place for the incredible gifts you gave them years ago.

It's only negative to you because your game is about to go up in smoke. To someone who had their methods stolen and sold by others, it's a great day and a new opportunity, just one that doesn't involve helping YOU get laid.

Hope that clarifies the relativity of "engativity."

[Reborn]

If you had given this rank and file the pivot, and all you got for it was plagiarized, insulted, and attacked by those who use your very tactic (and your lifestyle approach in general), how many NEW IDEAS would you part with? Answer: none. You'd laugh your head off as the information stolen from you becomes absolutely, posiitvely WORTHLESS, then you'd realize that teaching women to stop this stuff is more proftiable than teaching a bunch of thieves, assholes, liars, and people who didn't give you proper credit in the first place for the incredible gifts you gave them years ago.

This is Ray Gordon alright.

here's a faq on Mr. Gordon, he is truely umm....special.

http://www.usenet-replayer.com/faq/rec.games.chess.politics.html

[Tactic]

Equal,

Are you accusing me of being Ray, the author of these free books:

Outfoxing The Foxes
29 Reasons Not To Be A Nice Guy (includes debut of the pivot technique)
Perfect Seduction
Why Hotties Choose Losers?

You're accusing me of being THAT Ray?

Man I get that all the time.

Hey Ray, how do you know you have Narcissistic Personality Disorder? were you told this by a professional or is this a wanna have disorder?

[Tailgunner]

I do not know of any PUA school that does not charge for its material. I personally believe that the PUA material that the forum users supply is much more powerful that what Mystery and a hand full of others have developed. Its not the method and material I am concerned about. The method is not going to change at all. What I am concerned about is the fact that guys here and at other forums are going to limit valuable materail based on there experiences. Lets face it . Mystery made us who we are but we all meade each other even better based on our experiences. I hate the fact that the community has become commercialized to the point where a boot camp is not around 2500 dollars. That to me is asanine not matter how much " experience " you may get. You are valuable. I know I have been watching this forum since January. I have been in the game long before Mystery Method was around and based on my experience, I find the contributors to this forum make my game better. Even the newest members with little or no experience bring up some valad points that I continually still learn from. Its a continuous learning type of game. Its like keeping your job skills up.

I do like the idea of a pure informational forum like the one Equal has suggested. I believe that if a guy is willing to convey his experience and is willing to post it, the material should be safe from commercialization.

Face it, Mysterys gone and not comming back. Its time for us to step up ad make this thing work.

[geses]

Just the facts: My game is worse since "The Game" came out. I took a MM workshop with the man himself, Mystery, in the Spring of 2005. I was one of the weaker students coming in and out of the workshop. I was making some slow but steady progress thereafter. Then Style's book came out. I became paranoid that women would find out I was running canned material. Lovedrop is right; it is and was my own bad frame control. Nonetheless, the fact remains that my game suffered and still has yet to recover! I agree that the media coverage will not hurt guys with tight game, but fringe guys like me, some of whom financially supported some of the gurus who profit from these media ventures, will suffer. I don't use any community material anymore, but I still have yet to come up with a gambit as good as the Best Friend's Test.

BTW, what happened to *****'s posts and why?

[Pai Mei]

This is Ray Gordon alright.

here's a faq on Mr. Gordon, he is truely umm....special.

http://www.usenet-replayer.com/faq/rec.games.chess.politics.html

wow, it really is him. if you look at the history he's using that same "inventor of the pivot" ridiculousness ad nauseum over at alt.seduction.fast. wow, its a shame this scene can become a playground of sorts for trolls like him.

[spearhead21]

There are a lot of people in this forum (including me) who don't have access to VH1. Thinking about it, I don't think anyone will put the show in youtube as many people are afraid of exposure and youtube would mean MUCH more exposure than VH1. Could someone eventually upload the episodes sometime to mediafire or something similar for the people of this forum to watch it? We all want to see the show to see what material is exposed and in case there is something new to learn from the show.
Cheers

[seldomseen]

In the words of David DeAngelo:

"Attraction is not a choice"

Just keep that thought in mind. If you're game suffers badly because of exposure from this show then you don't have true game to begin with.

[Equal]

Seldomseen - you are 100% right and I love DD and I use CF all the time. The only problem is transitioning to lays is much tougher than attraction. I am a big believer that routines and canned stuff help guys transition. Thus anything of that exposed by the show would be a negative to me. I am not saying the sky is falling.

Equal

[seldomseen]

Seldomseen - you are 100% right and I love DD and I use CF all the time. The only problem is transitioning to lays is much tougher than attraction. I am a big believer that routines and canned stuff help guys transition. Thus anything of that exposed by the show would be a negative to me. I am not saying the sky is falling.

Equal


You don't need routines or canned stuff. Venusian Arts, MM and others is nothing but a philosophy not a pre - scripted system and people need to get away from basing their 'Game' revolves around set scripts.

The foundation is inner game. Inner Game plus personality alone can get you in and keep you in an interaction. I've gone out with close to 350 women in my life even before I found the community in 2001. The only difference is that now I know whats going on where as back then I didn't really understand it as much.
The show should not affect your game. It should have no affect on your confidence, self esteem and personality ( humor, charm, charisma etc) So it
might put a halt to the standard "hey guys quick opinion..." or "how do you roll with her?" statements but those are just appetizers. They aren't the meal.
I know a car salesman will throw a pitch on me but I still WANT to buy a car.
Women still want to sleep with men, have relationships, get married, etc.
Just keep yourself more interesting than the other guys on the street, bars, clubs and you wont suffer.
Peace

[Greystoke]

Equal,

Are you accusing me of being Ray, the author of these free books:

Outfoxing The Foxes
29 Reasons Not To Be A Nice Guy (includes debut of the pivot technique)
Perfect Seduction
Why Hotties Choose Losers?

You're accusing me of being THAT Ray?

Man I get that all the time.

think about it. only ray gordon himself would know the titles of his own books and that those books are free because nobody actually would pay a cent to buy them from him.

denial is hard in the face of unrefutable evidence.

[WANine]

BREAKING UPDATE! (actually I don't know if this has been mentioned yet or not, because I'm not reading 10 pages)

Anyways, I don't know how reputable this statement is, so take it with a grain of salt, but... The show is probably getting cut after 2 episodes (according to Johnny Wolf [never heard of him, btw] ). He says:

"I just heard from a guy I know in the entertainment industry that VH1
has lost interest in the show due to bad focus group results and has
chosen not to spend any money advertising or promoting it.

VH1 is planning to only air 2 episodes (since they are under contract
to air at least 2) and then cut the series. I'm sad to hear this
will happen..."

If you're one of those in-denial idiots who thinks that the show would have been good to air to the public, then sorry to post this. That's bad news for you guys. The good news, however, is that bootcamps will probably go down in price again if this deal falls through, and that mystery will continue to teach them.


double edit: haha even if the show does air, who cares! It seems like other people think it's all a whole joke http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Number=11270356

[Dynamism]

BREAKING UPDATE! (actually I don't know if this has been mentioned yet or not, because I'm not reading 10 pages)

Anyways, I don't know how reputable this statement is, so take it with a grain of salt, but... The show is probably getting cut after 2 episodes (according to Johnny Wolf [never heard of him, btw] ). He says:

"I just heard from a guy I know in the entertainment industry that VH1
has lost interest in the show due to bad focus group results and has
chosen not to spend any money advertising or promoting it.

VH1 is planning to only air 2 episodes (since they are under contract
to air at least 2) and then cut the series. I'm sad to hear this
will happen..."

April Fool's passed a loong time ago... but... ?

Can any of the VA guys confirm this (obviously, if no one posts within some days it may be true, because the VA guys have been pretty good at disproving false statements about their show).

[Johnny_Favorite]

BREAKING UPDATE! (actually I don't know if this has been mentioned yet or not, because I'm not reading 10 pages)

Anyways, I don't know how reputable this statement is, so take it with a grain of salt, but... The show is probably getting cut after 2 episodes (according to Johnny Wolf [never heard of him, btw] ). He says:

"I just heard from a guy I know in the entertainment industry that VH1
has lost interest in the show due to bad focus group results and has
chosen not to spend any money advertising or promoting it.

VH1 is planning to only air 2 episodes (since they are under contract
to air at least 2) and then cut the series. I'm sad to hear this
will happen..."

If you're one of those in-denial idiots who thinks that the show would have been good to air to the public, then sorry to post this. That's bad news for you guys. The good news, however, is that bootcamps will probably go down in price again if this deal falls through, and that mystery will continue to teach them.


double edit: haha even if the show does air, who cares! It seems like other people think it's all a whole joke http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Number=11270356

If the show gets good ratings with it's premiere, they will run the whole season. I will say this, PU material is great for learning, not entertaining. There was another show about PU called the first 3 minutes and it was really boring. Jugglers show was boring, even the mystery DVD's are boring.

Honestly from the Pick artist commercials the show looks pretty good.

[WANine]

I'd believe it. Like you said, it's great learning material, it's not good entertainment. In my opinion, mystery comes off as a huge tool on tv. The entire concept of peacocking (to the degree that he does it) just gets him tooled on TV (see conan o'brein). His voice also sounds... how do I put this... fruity?

Don't get me wrong, the stuff coming out of his mouth is great, he knows his game. But to someone who doesn't believe it, and doesn't have the dedication to sit there and learn from it, he just looks like a huge joke.

Of Mystery and the art of pick up (from that link to the forum I posted a few posts up):

I saw this clown on Letterman, he seems like a tard

All that shit is fake anyways

So, is this pickup artist thing all based on the fact that chicks dig gay guys? That's the vibe I'm getting from looking at that dude.

O/U on number of episodes before cancellation? I say 3.

[adamstealth]

Think about this, how long have each of you been learning this? years? me personally. i've been doing this 14 months. about 6 religiously and only now am i really starting to get good. Yet, they're taking virgins and total morons and shoving them in bootcamps and in 8 episodes, they are supposed to be PUA's?

Come on, seriously?

It'll be amusing to watch. but it'll get old very quick. I'd be more interested in seeing mysterys critique of the guys, less of them chatting up chicks. we all know what that looks like.

I've said it before and WANline, u said it, you've got to belive it. You have to be sold on this. so many of my friends believe it's manipulative and all sorts of crap. forget the fact that they'll fuck better looking women.

You have to have the right mindset to want to learn this stuff. and fortunately for us, most people aren't go-getters in life. the thought of learning anything turns people right off. With the recent news of the show sucking, I think all the fear and worry that everyone seems to have can be put to rest. it's all going to be okay.

Ads

[Myth]

This is interesting, from the mASF forum:

Date Posted: 2005/03/25 08:22:00 AM EST
Author: Mystery <unknown email address>
Subject: The Guru‘s are missing out

the fear isnt that people wont come to workshops, its that GIRLS will see the
video and it will taint the field horribly. Afterall, we use similar material
time and again. doesnt make any ex GF feel so special does it.

Mystery

[MrEsquire]

I've been saying this same thing for a while...of course there will be new people in the community, but it won't be as bad as people are saying:

1) Many guys will think it is fake/scripted reality show.
2) The presentation and Mystery's style will make many people think the whole thing is lame and that Mystery is a big joke.
3) Some guys will think it is manipulative and will condemn it.
4) Others will be too prideful to believe that they need instruction to pickup girls.
5) There will be a large percentage of guys who don't even watch VH1, so this information will never reach them.
6) Some will find the community - but many of those will not put in the effort to become good at PU.

Really, the only negative I can think of is that some of the typical, common, scripted routines will be exposed - and that's assuming they even give them away!

Even if girls watch the show, they won't be able to tell you are doing PU unless you are blatantly obvious. Remember, the structure is modeled from naturals; how often to naturals get called out for running game? Maybe occasionally a girl will say to them, "Are you a player?", but they have the confidence to just plow and close.

Like a poster above said: Remember David D, "Attraction isn't a choice." If you attract the woman, she'll follow her emotions. The attraction switches and structure of PU is ingrained in our brain from thousands of years of evolution - if it hasn't changed significantly since then, a VH1 reality show won't change it. If you don't believe women will still want to be picked up and fucked after this show, then you need to adopt a better frame or have a paradigm shift.

Maybe this post isn't even needed now that Navy has been exposed (I think he was the only major guy who was expelling hyperbolic scenarios of PU becoming fully obsolete and the community being totally destroyed).

[dman]

Reminds me of the time I came across a girl who claimed to be an "expert" on the seduction community, claimed to even be part of it. (why, because she had just finished reading "The Game"! lol)

Yet she completely failed to realise my friend and I were Pick Up artists, even though....

1. We opened with an opinion opener
2. Used a false time constraint
3. Negged her
4. Anchored ourselves
5. etc.... oodles of stuff straight out of a textbook!

[Dynamism]

Since of what we do and who we are, it's very hard to put ourselves in the shoes of others and realize that, as the above two posts said, nothing negative really happens.

[X-Press]

I wonder how deep the show will get in terms of principles.

I'm thinking it's going to be light on principles and focus more on entertainment like the Game book.

[Navy236]

Since of what we do and who we are, it's very hard to put ourselves in the shoes of others and realize that, as the above two posts said, nothing negative really happens.

If you consider other guys acquiring the same tools you have to be "nothing negative," you are correct. If she can't stop you when you use these methods, why do you think she can stop other guys any better?

Is she going to let you all line up and fuck her?

[Dynamism]

Think about this quote, Navy. It's from David D:
"The fear of failure and the resulting feelings of depression are mostly because of a limited perspective."

That's what I see with you as well. Limited perspective. That's why you have this fear. And even if you don't have the fear (why should you? You don't care about PU, you're teaching girls to avoid PUAs, so because of that I don't see your argument and why you're posting), it's still limited perspective.

I refuse to allow myself to fill in every tiny bit of information you are missing because of your limited perspective, or because you left it out on purpose on accident or because you're in denial. I do not see why I should further prove anything to you.

[Navy236]

Think about this quote, Navy. It's from David D:
"The fear of failure and the resulting feelings of depression are mostly because of a limited perspective."

That's what I see with you as well. Limited perspective. That's why you have this fear. And even if you don't have the fear (why should you? You don't care about PU, you're teaching girls to avoid PUAs, so because of that I don't see your argument and why you're posting), it's still limited perspective.

I refuse to allow myself to fill in every tiny bit of information you are missing because of your limited perspective, or because you left it out on purpose on accident or because you're in denial. I do not see why I should further prove anything to you.


The only "limiting perspective" seems to be when people LIMIT their endorsements to the same six "gurus."

List all the women you know that have fucked "David D."

All these skills work so well, all these extra guys learn them, something's gotta give. VH-1 isn't going to help anyone but the gurus and the AFCs, at the expense of the PUAs.

[TruePlayer]

List all the women you know that have fucked "David D."



While we are at it: How about a list of all of the women you've fucked "Navy". :D

[Dynamism]

Navy, do you like PUAs? The same PUAs that would supposedly suffer from this?

I suspect no. So while we are discussing this, explain what your point is.

[coolguy]

18 pages. lol.

[WANine]

Think about this quote, Navy. It's from David D:
"The fear of failure and the resulting feelings of depression are mostly because of a limited perspective."

That's what I see with you as well. Limited perspective. That's why you have this fear. And even if you don't have the fear (why should you? You don't care about PU, you're teaching girls to avoid PUAs, so because of that I don't see your argument and why you're posting), it's still limited perspective.

I refuse to allow myself to fill in every tiny bit of information you are missing because of your limited perspective, or because you left it out on purpose on accident or because you're in denial. I do not see why I should further prove anything to you.

You sound like a brainwashed idiot. Think for yourself, and think logically, not abstractly. Lets try a simple analogy:

-You are a carpenter
-You make the finest furniture because you have better tools than everyone else
-People pay top dollar for your goods... and why shouldn't they, yours are the best around
-You give your tools to everyone else
-Everyone else makes furniture that is of equal or greater value than yours
-Your furniture becomes the norm, and people aren't attracted to it like they used to be. You need something to set you above your competition if you ever want to be #1 again.

See how that works? It's almost economic.

[Greystoke]

-You are a carpenter

WANine is a PUA (well at least he wants to be one).

-You make the finest furniture because you have better tools than everyone else

Having the tools is different from knowing how to use the tools. Let's assume you know how to use the tools. The skillset of a good carpenter is not in the tools itself but in the handling of the tools.

-People pay top dollar for your goods... and why shouldn't they, yours are the best around

TRANSLATION: you get laid a lot coz you are a good PUA.

-You give your tools to everyone else

You are only giving away the tools, not the skills. If the best painter gives you his brushes and paints, do you become as good as him? I guess not. Besides, a good PUA has a good lifestyle and an attractive personality. CAn you give those away?

-Everyone else makes furniture that is of equal or greater value than yours

which can not happen if you are only giving the tools away. OF those who know about the community, only 10% gets good. You are not in that 10%, WANine.

But let's assume that you also teach them the skills. But by then, you are already getting laid simply because you are ahead of them. How long will they take to catch up to you?

Say you become at the same level as Mystery. Does mystery stop getting laid when he publishes his books and DVDs? Do naturals stop getting laid when the online PUA community was created?

-Your furniture becomes the norm, and people aren't attracted to it like they used to be.

You mean that the attraction switches do not work?? Complete bullshit. You mean that you can not create sexual tension anymore? More bullshit.


You need something to set you above your competition if you ever want to be #1 again.

WANine, you are not no. 1. There is no number 1. There are enough women around for dozens of gurus to sleep with and every single year, there are thousands of girls who turn 18.

See how that works? It's almost economic.


You have little idea how to use real economics.

[Dynamism]

You sound like a brainwashed idiot.

Hi WANine,

Ultimately I not only believe in what I say but I understand it as well. As a person who sounded like a brainwashed idiot to you, I thank you for attempting to make me understand your viewpoint. There's a lot of books on persuasion and other social skills not related to attracting women. You should read these first before trying to win over anyone to your side of thinking.

Unfortunately it seems that you spent less time formulating your post because even an ordinary high-school student with no knowledge of VA or MM or any other material will point out your flaws. No need to say more, Greystroke already filled in.

Nothing in this world is limited (except perspective). Success is not limited. Money is not limited. Women are NOT limited. [Granted you have the tools AND knowledge of how to use them.] Why do you think this knowledge should be limited?

(Greedy bastards. ;) lol )

Everyone's saying that Mystery will cash in on this. Do you THINK that he was nervous thinking "I don't know, there's so many millionaires and billionaires out there that I just don't think there's room for me to become wealthy!" (if he even thought that).

[Reborn]

Think for yourself, and think logically, not abstractly. Lets try a simple analogy:

-You are a carpenter
-You make the finest furniture because you have better tools than everyone else
-People pay top dollar for your goods... and why shouldn't they, yours are the best around
-You give your tools to everyone else
-Everyone else makes furniture that is of equal or greater value than yours
-Your furniture becomes the norm, and people aren't attracted to it like they used to be. You need something to set you above your competition if you ever want to be #1 again.

See how that works? It's almost economic.

This analogy is airtight.

Will people stop buying furniture? of course not...will your customer base
be compromised?

You bet.

Basic logic.

[coolguy]

Doom & Goomers:

Have you guys ever met people off pairs or went to a "Lair"? 95% of those guys still don't get laid. You can lead a horse to water.......

A loft of guys won't even get started because "everyone else will be doing it" I really like the other posters millionair analogy.

The kind of guys who watch VH1 are usually watching it with their wife or gf, so they are already pulling a55 to begin with, the other demographic of male is probably some group of introverted psuedowomen who are nothing to worry about unless you like really large, smelly women.

Personally, I give away my old books and tell my friends about the show and suggest they watch it. We have as much to gain from publicity as we do to loose. Although it will probably never happen, if seduction theory became common knowledge how would it affect these things:

-Religious fanaticism: If people realized the church made the gjuys not try to seek out more mates, so that they could monopolize all the women and spread their genes more, how many people would attend?

-Law: If men realized that they exploit women for health indicators, and women exploit men for resources (nothing personal, just biology), how would that effect alimony & child support?

-"Girls night out": Once men realize that girls night out really == girls night to seek out better genes, how many men would submit to monogamy so easily?

-Self-Actualisation: In a polygamous society one man will monopolize many women. This means there will not be a woman for every man to marry, this puts more pressure on men & could lead to greater self-actualisation. Well, if you look at some of those societies, maybe this is wishful thinking! Anyway, seduction experience gives us the tools to be somewhat polygamous anyway since we can easily monopolize many women.

-Greater celebration of sexuality: Once sexuality is understood, it's not so scarry to bring out into the open. More swinger parties, more FFM 3 somes, hey I wouldn't complain any..


Alas, unfortunately nothing is likely to change.. too bad ! But we can change our own lives even if not the majority of societies

[beachboy21]

The other day I was on an airplane, and I saw all these guys that looked like businessman in their 40's some in their 50's. They didn't look like thay could get chicks, and knowing the nature of guys they probably have an urge to figure out ways of getting chicks just like all of us. Pick up is an interesting process by which men get chicks that seems to work, men will want to pick up on pick up. Just like all of us are interested in this stuff there will be waves of men interested in this stuff too.

[Rick Shambles]

You sound like a brainwashed idiot. Think for yourself, and think logically, not abstractly. Lets try a simple analogy:

-You are a carpenter
-You make the finest furniture because you have better tools than everyone else
-People pay top dollar for your goods... and why shouldn't they, yours are the best around
-You give your tools to everyone else
-Everyone else makes furniture that is of equal or greater value than yours
-Your furniture becomes the norm, and people aren't attracted to it like they used to be. You need something to set you above your competition if you ever want to be #1 again.

See how that works? It's almost economic.

People are paying for your expertise, not for your "techniques."

[WANine]

attempted intellectual rebuttle

You missed the point entirely, and then tried to debunk what you didn't understand, but you get a D+ for trying. I like how you attempted to "translate" back to me, what my own analogy meant. I'm glad you're around to interpret my posts for me. Without you who knows what could happen, maybe the obvious would go un-noticed?? But seriously, good thing you put those translations in because without them people might not have figured out that my carpenter-using-tools analogy was analogous to a PUA-using-pickup.

Reread my post, then read it again, then read it again, then *THINK* about it for a while, then read it again, and then don't reply, thx. Or save yourself the time, don't log in, and just read reborn's post, he sums it up quite nicely.

...

Hi Dynamism, first let me say that I appreciate you not going the greystroke-route by making an ass of yourself. I also appreciate you not trying to analyze my post with the mentality of a 4th grader (LOL IM MAKING A JOKE ABOUT YOU GREYSTROKE /obvious). Sorry for calling you a brainwashed idiot, the fact that you quoted David D (we can call him a PUA, right?) as evidence that PUA was not going to die, just seemed somewhat wrong to me. It just came off in the same way that a scientologist comes off when he quotes L. Ron (I'm not calling you stupid, nor am I comparing you to a scientologist, though you did support greystroke... :P).

Ultimately I not only believe in what I say but I understand it as well. As a person who sounded like a brainwashed idiot to you, I thank you for attempting to make me understand your viewpoint. There's a lot of books on persuasion and other social skills not related to attracting women. You should read these first before trying to win over anyone to your side of thinking.

A clever joke disguised as a nicety! Touche sir. Have you read any of these books on rhetoric? Did you know that Socrates and Plato were both against the spread of rhetoric? I dare say that if they were alive today, they would be against the spread of PU :O. My train of thought is fine, thanks, however I think you might just be vagina-sore because I called you a brainwashed idiot, which is why you're trying to insult me :(. Since we're insulting each other with clever retorts, try this one on for size: I didn't understand the point of your last sentence in that paragraph because I stopped reading it when you wrote "there is a lot of books". Bad grammar hurts :(.


Unfortunately it seems that you spent less time formulating your post because even an ordinary high-school student with no knowledge of VA or MM or any other material will point out your flaws. No need to say more, Greystroke already filled in.


As reborn said, my analogy is airtight (maybe not airtight, i'm sure someone could poke some legitimate holes in it), if you didn't understand it, or you misinterpretted it, read it again. Or just ask me what part you don't understand and I'll do my best to explain it to you.

As to the last part of your post, I'm certainly not saying knowledge is limited, what I am saying is that this knowledge should be limited because

1. More men being in-the-know increases competition tremendously (especially on a vh1-scale).
2. More women being in-the-know makes it harder for you to land a pick up because they might recognize something, or be suspicious and call you out or label you as a manipulative ass.

[Greystoke]

WANine, you will NEVER get laid using the Mystery method. I can guarantee you that.

The fact that none of your posts have been about actual PU or any of your sticking points shows that you are only a shit-stirrer who shits in his pants and likes to worry about a reality show that has not even aired.

Did Juggler method become ineffective after Seduction School was aired in the UK and then on Youtube?

[WANine]

WANine, you will NEVER get laid using the Mystery method. I can guarantee you that.

every one of your posts has a comment like this in it, maybe it's time to think a little harder and use something other than the tired and true "lol u dont get laid lol" insult? Or not, just keep doing this one if it's easier on you.


The fact that none of your posts have been about actual PU or any of your sticking points shows that you are only a shit-stirrer who shits in his pants and likes to worry about a reality show that has not even aired.

I don't have any sticking points because I'm fucking epic at PU. My dick is 12 inches, I drive a different ferrari every day of the week, and I only fuck supermodels. The fact that you didn't say anything to my previous post says that you've got too much sand in your vagina to reply to any of the points I made (such as you not posting ;) ).

You're probably the biggest loser I've ever seen in the seduction community the past 2 years that I've been here. In my opinion the show is bad news (not anymore though because it's going to get cancelled). Some people agree, some don't. If you don't like my opinion, then you should cry yourself a river, build a bridge, and get over it.

[Limelight]

WANine pal, sorry but you're talking bs.

If you're getting laid from MM you wouldn't fear exposure so it's obvious that you're NOT active in the game since 2 years...

Stop trying to prove other guys over the internet what a PUA you are.

The show won't effect ANYBODY who is seriously going out and sarging regularly-period.

Anybody who's claiming something else doesn't understand the method or even basic human psychology at all.

[Bear]

i have a fool-proof solution to this if the landscape of pick-up gets so out of hand....

but it will be only posted as a last resort

[TruePlayer]

My dick is still huge, VH1 or no VH1. I'll still get pussy.

[Pai Mei]

I don't have any sticking points because I'm fucking epic at PU. My dick is 12 inches, I drive a different ferrari every day of the week, and I only fuck supermodels.

WANine are you another pseudonym for Ray/Navy?

[Greystoke]

The fact that you didn't say anything to my previous post says that you've got too much sand in your vagina to reply to any of the points I made (such as you not posting ;) ).

I have already disproved your points and so have others. But you still persist in behaving like Chicken Little. Keep worrying.

It's not an insult, btw. If you do get laid, you just have to say that you do.

It's only an insult to those for whom it is actually true[ie. they dont get laid] and they spend too much time again and again saying that a cable TV show will destroy the community or prevent them from becomin a PUA. The Game Book did not destroy the community, and it was on the NY bestseller's list.

Even at the time of the launch of the gamep[i was on ASF], a lot of people were not using Mystery's gambits and those who did could get laid even if she knows about the lines.

WANine, I understandd where you and people who agrees with you are coming from, but you still fail to realise that it does not matter. and no amount of me replying to your post will convince you otherwise. Let the facts speak for themselves. I can guarantee you that in September 2007, I can still go to a random girl in the US or Europe or elsewhere, use a canned material directly from the vh1 show and still get her. How much are you willing to bet on that?

I do have sticking points and i use the forums mainly to read about proposed solutions and get other feedbacks from others.

My main point is that there is no need to panic, before things happen, and if the scenario is the one that you have described, wannine, then suggest a plan to counteract it, instead of lamenting like a cry baby that you are doomed or that mystery is a sell out or any other anti-vh1 show arguments that are written about.

There are lairs in every major cities of the world. Will cannedm aterial work? yes, but if a chick has heard it before, it is more likely to be from another newbie who run the same lines on her rather than soemthing she saw and heard from a tv show.

I have been in a venue where a girl told me that a guy told her that same story last week. NEwbies' lack of game will destroy your game more than a vh1 show that a lot of HBs will not have time to sit down and watch.

If you are living in a HB target rich area like LA, NY or go to very social places, you are not the first PUA or aPUA to try the canned material. The MM can not be detected -- or if they are, it's because women already know game even before you know game.

I dont like your opinion because you are trying to confuse newbies and lead them on a wrong track, but i am glad that most of us here dont agree with you... even mystery or anyone with game does not agree with you. You are on your own, wanine.

[Showtime]

Hey since everyone and there mom is profiting off of the seduction community I decided that I will write an ebook and make a dvd set as well I want to be rich too. :) I swear in about a year or so there will be thousands of PU products when PU hits mainstream. PUA will become snake oil salesman of our time. These newer PUA who are selling there products are str8 up scam artist if you look at there material its pretty much a copy of another PUA stuff.

P.S: People keep using "The Game" as an example but really how many people actually read books? How many people watch T.V? Exactly!! when this show air's it will be talked about by every magazine, radio station, talk show ect.....younger guys will be all over this show and Mystery will become very rich when those guys buy his products, the material will of course be so played out that it will be equivelent to a pick up line and Mystery will end-up on Vh1 in 5 years on a show either called "whatever happened to?" or "worst television show's of Vh1"! Either way Mystery is going to destroy himself by going public, like they say what goes up must come down!!


1st RULE: You do not talk about FIGHT CLUB.
2nd RULE: You DO NOT talk about FIGHT CLUB.

[Dynamism]

Uh-oh. Another doomsday scenario. I think I shall now go to the restroom and vomit.

[beachboy21]

even though some people are worried about the show and others are not worried about it most poeple agree that the community was much better off 10 years ago. I wonder why that is . . .

[Dynamism]

Because people LOVE to keep powerful secrets from others. But the community has grown.

However, does that limit people's success? No.

I would also have loved the community to be smaller cuz it gives me the warm-fuzzies, but it's not. So deal.

[Greystoke]

when this show air's it will be talked about by every magazine, radio station, talk show ect....

I have bad news for you. Mystery is not Paris Hilton or Osama Bin Laden.

Mystery PUA vh1 show is not the first reality tv dating show. There has been Seduction School, elimidate, keys to the vip, and countless of other 'makeover' shows that transform people from X to Y.

Relationships is chick crack.

Mystery has already appeared on many magazines and the PU community is already on tv, with previous appearances by Neil, Mehow, several gurus[Affection] and Mystery himself when the game came out and became a bestseller and when the MM book came out and Erik went on Conan O'Brien.

The thing about fight club is... everyone knows about fight club. It does not make it a less-good movie.

People just compare it to somethign else. So many metaphors. I can use metaphors too. The VH1 show is like a pile of shit that you dumped in front of a girl. When she sees and smells it, she'll stay away from you forever and you'll never be able to approach a girl again. Oh no, i have used an analogy!!

Maybe you guys should switch to another method, like Vin Dicarlo, the approach, badboy, RSD, juggler, mode one... or Baby Girl. :eek:

[Navy236]

I have bad news for you. Mystery is not Paris Hilton or Osama Bin Laden.

Mystery PUA vh1 show is not the first reality tv dating show. There has been Seduction School, elimidate, keys to the vip, and countless of other 'makeover' shows that transform people from X to Y.

Relationships is chick crack.

Mystery has already appeared on many magazines and the PU community is already on tv, with previous appearances by Neil, Mehow, several gurus[Affection] and Mystery himself when the game came out and became a bestseller and when the MM book came out and Erik went on Conan O'Brien.

The thing about fight club is... everyone knows about fight club. It does not make it a less-good movie.

People just compare it to somethign else. So many metaphors. I can use metaphors too. The VH1 show is like a pile of shit that you dumped in front of a girl. When she sees and smells it, she'll stay away from you forever and you'll never be able to approach a girl again. Oh no, i have used an analogy!!

Maybe you guys should switch to another method, like Vin Dicarlo, the approach, badboy, RSD, juggler, mode one... or Baby Girl. :eek:


Yeah, keep telling yourself that no matter how many guys learn something, it won't change the market at all.

That little piece of slut trash that thought her man was alpha is going to see how she was gamed and realize he was just a loser who got his game on the web. I already hear about guys crashing other guys' sets when they recognize game being run.

Does it happen overnight? No. Is it happening? Most definitely. On a board that sells expensive products that are being devalued every time a new guy learns the method, I wouldn't expect much agreement with this viewpoint, but to an audience of consumers that treats a company-sponsored board as if it were anything other than a marketing vehicle, the claims will fall on deaf, dumb, and blind ears.

[Greystoke]

Yeah, keep telling yourself that no matter how many guys learn something, it won't change the market at all.

That little piece of slut trash that thought her man was alpha is going to see how she was gamed and realize he was just a loser who got his game on the web. I already hear about guys crashing other guys' sets when they recognize game being run.

Does it happen overnight? No. Is it happening? Most definitely. On a board that sells expensive products that are being devalued every time a new guy learns the method,

First, ask yourself. how many guys learn this and get good? barely 10% of the guys get good enough. The others who dont will get 'thrashed' by girls because they did not bother to put in the effort.

That little piece of slut trash that thought her man was alpha is going to see how she was gamed and realize he was just a loser who got his game on the web. I already hear about guys crashing other guys' sets when they recognize game being run.

Blame the guys for thrashing other guys' sets. Dont blame Mystery or his method.

If the girl feels used, dont blame the game, blame the guy. Gurus advocate being honest. You cant really fake being alpha for too long, if you are in a LTR. You either become alpha or you are an incongruent beta.

you have paranoid fear of women feeling like shit. Who told you to manipulate women anyway? Mystery?

On a board that sells expensive products that are being devalued every time a new guy learns the method

So you prefer that Mystery never reveal to you and others his method? If what you said was true, then why can mystery still pull girls if his method is being devalued so much? why does he teach bootcamps and a lot of his students become gurus and become very good at pickup? why do the students who took MM bootcamps become good and become instructors? If your reasoning was true, we would be having worse new practionners of MM. Instead ,every time an AFC's eyes are open, he becomes better and this does not affect another guy's good game. Your game is your own journey. Watch Mystery DVDs. he does not advocate that you stick to the same routines he teaches you all the time. He tells you that you have to make it your own. You are not going to talk about the Hollywood sign or the stripper in a camero DHV story or use magic because you are not Mystery.

I wouldn't expect much agreement with this viewpoint, but to an audience of consumers that treats a company-sponsored board as if it were anything other than a marketing vehicle, the claims will fall on deaf, dumb, and blind ears.

Then, Navy, why are you still on this forum board?

You are right. What you are saying are claims, not facts. I want to watch your drawn face when August 6 comes and none of your predictions come true.

How much are you willing to bet?

[adamstealth]

Go watch Seduction School on youtube and look how totally vague it is. I can only assume the show is going to be in the same format.

There's going to be fuck all actually disclosed on the show, anyone winging about the show destroying the community, listen:

Can you please shut, the hell, up!

Stop your fucking moaning, get off the frigging computer, drive down to the nearest club and take the only useful bit of information Mystery did manage to get out into the public last time he was in the media (conan o'brian) and:

"Get out of the house"

Fuck, some of you are fucking legends, some are hard working guys who will stop at nothing less than success, and there are a select few who are nothing but retarded douchebags.

Go and do something useful and post a frigging field report and let the experts pick your game apart. You're either here to have the PUA's on this board help you, or you're a PUA and you're helping others. Post constructively or fuck off.

Over and out,

A frustrated Stealth!

[Navy236]

Go watch Seduction School on youtube and look how totally vague it is. I can only assume the show is going to be in the same format.

There's going to be fuck all actually disclosed on the show, anyone winging about the show destroying the community, listen:

Can you please shut, the hell, up!

Stop your fucking moaning, get off the frigging computer, drive down to the nearest club and take the only useful bit of information Mystery did manage to get out into the public last time he was in the media (conan o'brian) and:

"Get out of the house"

Fuck, some of you are fucking legends, some are hard working guys who will stop at nothing less than success, and there are a select few who are nothing but retarded douchebags.

Go and do something useful and post a frigging field report and let the experts pick your game apart. You're either here to have the PUA's on this board help you, or you're a PUA and you're helping others. Post constructively or fuck off.

Over and out,

A frustrated Stealth!


Hey Dweeb,

Mystery gets women with MONEY AND FAME. And by telling Style that "living costs too much" which equates to "make me famous or I'm gonna kill myself and it'll be your fault."

When Katya slept with Herbal, Mystery threatened to throw Herbal through plate glass.

When a reverend complained about Mystery making noise while a guest in the reverend's apartment building, Mystery threatened the reverend with a knife.

Your guru is a whining toddler who makes life hell for anyone around him when he doesn't get his way, while you're an anonymous piece of shit too scared to post, likely because the one girl you fucked would have her dad set you straight if she ever learned what you were doing.

You are desperately seeking reflected glory by kissing up to someone who is "famous" and got that way through extremely questionable means. You think you impress women that way?

Dude, you aren't much of a man; not much of one at all.

Now go spend five grand on personal coaching from Mystery in case he thinks life is too expensive again.

[Pai Mei]

Hey Dweeb,

Mystery gets women with MONEY AND FAME. And by telling Style that "living costs too much" which equates to "make me famous or I'm gonna kill myself and it'll be your fault."

When Katya slept with Herbal, Mystery threatened to throw Herbal through plate glass.

When a reverend complained about Mystery making noise while a guest in the reverend's apartment building, Mystery threatened the reverend with a knife.

Your guru is a whining toddler who makes life hell for anyone around him when he doesn't get his way, while you're an anonymous piece of shit too scared to post, likely because the one girl you fucked would have her dad set you straight if she ever learned what you were doing.

You are desperately seeking reflected glory by kissing up to someone who is "famous" and got that way through extremely questionable means. You think you impress women that way?

Dude, you aren't much of a man; not much of one at all.

Now go spend five grand on personal coaching from Mystery in case he thinks life is too expensive again.



Wow, why on earth do you spend so much time on Mystery's site if you think these things about him? Oh yeah Ray, because you live in your mom's basement. How'd trying to sue google work out for you?

[adamstealth]

Wow, Mmmmm. lol

Yeah, I have a life and that post didn't even deserve me reading it, not to mention replying.

I'll say this much. I've never paid for a bootcamp and won't. If the "one girl" who i've slept with's dad wants to kill me for doing something bad like... improving my life then can you please tell me why in the blue hell you are on this forum!

You're in a similar boat to me in that we're both LEARNING pickup from a decent source. Except i'll succeed because i'm going out clubbing tonight, and you're going to sit here bitching on a forum like a little girl.

This guy isn't very cool is he? Shame, the rest of you are awesome.

All the best,

[beachboy21]

so, I'm watching clips of a news broadcast and of course mystery is the guest of honor in the interview, I think it was on young hollywood. Anyway, the anchor guy was of course intrigued and was wondering does this stuff really work? i think I've said this before who's gonna watch a Vh1 episode about this stuff and not wonder about what pick up has to offer?

[Navy236]

Wow, Mmmmm. lol

Yeah, I have a life and that post didn't even deserve me reading it, not to mention replying.

I'll say this much. I've never paid for a bootcamp and won't. If the "one girl" who i've slept with's dad wants to kill me for doing something bad like... improving my life then can you please tell me why in the blue hell you are on this forum!

You're in a similar boat to me in that we're both LEARNING pickup from a decent source. Except i'll succeed because i'm going out clubbing tonight, and you're going to sit here bitching on a forum like a little girl.

This guy isn't very cool is he? Shame, the rest of you are awesome.

All the best,

If the one girl loves you so much and this method, why isn't she posting here about what a great guy you are?

[Navy236]

so, I'm watching clips of a news broadcast and of course mystery is the guest of honor in the interview, I think it was on young hollywood. Anyway, the anchor guy was of course intrigued and was wondering does this stuff really work? i think I've said this before who's gonna watch a Vh1 episode about this stuff and not wonder about what pick up has to offer?

Like, NONE.

Game over.

Enjoy the armageddon. About time these wannabes got put in their place.

[Dox]

If the one girl loves you so much and this method, why isn't she posting here about what a great guy you are?

Erroneous, dude...this is a PUA forum, not a "lets hold hands and proclaim the joys of love" forum. Sounds to me like you're grabbing at straws.

[Dox]

Like, NONE.

Game over.

Enjoy the armageddon. About time these wannabes got put in their place.

Can someone please ban the troll?

[adamstealth]

If the one girl loves you so much and this method, why isn't she posting here about what a great guy you are?

Are you for real Navy? Seriously man, come on. Tell me this, have you ever actually been laid? like... ever?

I don't know what you're problem is, but what the hell would any girl be on this board for? Can you please try and redeem what little credibility that you might be able to salvage, get the fuck out the house, go to the mall and sarge, then come back here and post a field report.

So far your posts have been nothing but useless, I don't think i've ever seen 1 single constructive post from you. I have no idea why you're winging about the show destroying the community, It's not going to ruin anything FOR YOU, because you never leave the frigging house anyway.

Come on man, seriously. I've never come across such a large group of well rounded guys that are trying to improve certain areas of their life and you're always bitching. Just chill the fuck out. Stop posting crap, appologise and i'm sure everything will be okay.

Even if not, i still think someone should ban this little boy.

Stealth

[beachboy21]

speaking of field reports this girl i know from way back i decided to message, by making fun of her name a little but still saying that I missed her, a little AFC in that regard. she messages back saying she misses me too, meaning herself, not indicating that she missed me, but whatever. I message back saying yeah, your not allowed to miss me, trying to come off a little cocky, though, i wasn't getting a response. anyway i message her back by trying to show a little dhv by saying, let's get into your persoanl life, have you found the one or are you still being picky. no response from that either, sometimes i think this shit backfires . .

[Dynamism]

speaking of field reports this girl i know from way back i decided to message, by making fun of her name a little but still saying that I missed her, a little AFC in that regard. she messages back saying she misses me too, meaning herself, not indicating that she missed me, but whatever. I message back saying yeah, your not allowed to miss me, trying to come off a little cocky, though, i wasn't getting a response. anyway i message her back by trying to show a little dhv by saying, let's get into your persoanl life, have you found the one or are you still being picky. no response from that either, sometimes i think this shit backfires . .

Yup, I know what you're talking about. I think you've gotta calibrate. In addition I've noticed that if you screw up a little bit in the beginning means big negative points.
You don't just use the material. You have to incorporate it to yourself and be congruent, etc etc. It's not just taking and using.
I've made too many mistakes like that too...

[beachboy21]

yeah dynasism you're probably right, I was somewhat afc and in the friend zone when we we're hangi'n out, although I did tease her a little at that time, and I think stuff could have transpired, she wasn't too hard to get, but maybe this is a change from what she was use to, I'm not calibrating with my original afc personality, and all of a sudden I'm trying to use game on her and it backfires.

[TimBoogie]

Turned on my TV today and whats the first thing I SEE.....mystery telling these AFCs to BE yourself!!! hahahahahah!!!!!!!!! its on a day early wow

[Dynamism]

Turned on my TV today and whats the first thing I SEE.....mystery telling these AFCs to BE yourself!!! hahahahahah!!!!!!!!! its on a day early wow

Yeah, I saw the listings on VH1. Too bad I don't have cable yet.
Does anyone plan on uploading it on youtube? :D

[TimBoogie]

but this is great!!!! awesome I totally see what mystery was trying to do....there first Newbie mission was to ..BE yourself!! totally disproving what your mother told you and what every woman will tell you when you ask them for advice lol...Result?? them dudes got blown out of ever set ...... conclusion be yourself = bull shit!!!

[blade]

the show was off the chain. Can't for the next one.

[Navy236]

the show was off the chain. Can't for the next one.

Neither can the rest of the country.

Mystery has delivered the first death blow to the community by getting AFCs to get blown out ON FILM, and having it shown ON TELEVISION. Now, any guy with a VCR or DVD player can show women what happens when they take their advice. The woman says "be yourself" to her LJBF AFC, and he shows her the show and why this doesn't work.

Now the woman is intrigued, and watches as Mystery reveals, step by step, the entire structure of the game many of you paid thousands of dollars to learn. Word spreads, the rest of the media kicks in, and this becomes the surprise hit reality show, second best of the year after "Ice Road Truckers."

Do you really want the truth told in such an entertaining way to literally every target and rival?

[Dynamism]

the show was off the chain. Can't for the next one.

I can't wait to watch it either. =) I'll tell my AFC friends about it. And there is a girl that is interested in the PU business as well. The more people that know about it the better. You can massively DHV by positively being associated with improving yourself.
I hope this becomes mainstream. The society will grow out of its poor habits and better people will result. :)



Do you really want the truth told in such an entertaining way to literally every target and rival?


Damn right I do!!! I can teach them a thing or two more that they do not know. DHV - lead the men and the women will follow. :)
Hopefully SOON I'll be able to find an actual wing because of this!

[HUGE AL]

OK, I know a lot of guys are making fun of Mystery and accusing him of being a sell out... But hey, I'm just happy for the guy and sincerely hope the show is a success with many seasons to follow!

Just saw the first episode and it was pretty entertaining. Admit it, you've seen some facet of yourself in the students. Painful to watch, but hilarious.

RESPECT. :)

[seldomseen]

Neither can the rest of the country.

Mystery has delivered the first death blow to the community by getting AFCs to get blown out ON FILM, and having it shown ON TELEVISION. Now, any guy with a VCR or DVD player can show women what happens when they take their advice. The woman says "be yourself" to her LJBF AFC, and he shows her the show and why this doesn't work.

Now the woman is intrigued, and watches as Mystery reveals, step by step, the entire structure of the game many of you paid thousands of dollars to learn. Word spreads, the rest of the media kicks in, and this becomes the surprise hit reality show, second best of the year after "Ice Road Truckers."

Do you really want the truth told in such an entertaining way to literally every target and rival?


So basically you're saying that your game is limited to canned routines and you don't have your own personality, stories, and things about you that are attractive? You are so far from the truth. Take Friday night. I sat at the bar, opened a girl by asking her if she wanted some of my appetizer and next thing I was at her table with all her cute friends, danced, got the number and got a text message from her yesterday.
There is more than 1 way to score touchdowns. Indianapolis won last years Superbowl, Pittsburgh before that. Two different offenses - same result.

[SONICBOObs]

yea im uh, not really seeing all the positives about this show

it actually makes me not want to game as much

[Navy236]

So basically you're saying that your game is limited to canned routines and you don't have your own personality, stories, and things about you that are attractive? You are so far from the truth. Take Friday night. I sat at the bar, opened a girl by asking her if she wanted some of my appetizer and next thing I was at her table with all her cute friends, danced, got the number and got a text message from her yesterday.
There is more than 1 way to score touchdowns. Indianapolis won last years Superbowl, Pittsburgh before that. Two different offenses - same result.

This ignores the supply side of the equation, the vast increase in the number of men pursuing a very limited number of truly hot women. You'll have AFCs destroying every set you enter soon enough. What's to stop the AFC from claiming to know all this stuff too? Just the presence of more men with better game as rivals will increase whatever level of difficulty you had in the past.

Overnight, what Mystery has been teaching has become all but worthless, to everyone but him and those he made rich by selling out. Congratulations to his customers, because, like the HB who declares the guy who is playing her the love of her life, your guru has just seduced and abandoned you for a better offer from the media. Not only that, he got you to enjoy the trip while he sent your game to hell by tipping off the women and every other man in the joint.

Do you really think something you can pick up so easily off the internet is so secret and so powerful you're going to stand out from the other THOUSAND guys who want the same 10 you're drooling over? I guess those who said that the gurus make money off of desperate loser men were right.

Can I create my own material? Sure can and do. When I get paid like Mystery does, I'll be happy to release it to others just like he did. Until then, I think I'll just keep using the methods myself, make money doing regular work, and aviod the game-over problem this community is being hit with today and the *fourteen* times they will be rerunning the first episode of the show they rank at #1 on their roster.

This ranks up with Lincoln freeing the slave for the number of individual worlds that have been changed by a single stroke.

[Poeta]

I´m brazilian.

This american channel, VH1, is a popular channel? It´s cable or open TV?

[Riot]

wow, what a fascinating first thread to read... lots of valid points, lots of "interesting" points. allow me to be so bold as to share my 2c with u.

i see this as an opporunity to improve.. not just your game, but your imagination, your personality and your life.. if women have nothing better to do, than scheme over this and build up walls to make themslves unaffected by TMM or unapproachable by anyone, then im pretty sure u dont want anything to do with that type of woman - socially, romantically or in a dark ally at night !! LOL

secondly, i think way too much TV is being watched. go out when the show is on - call it Aussie logic, but chances are, the women your chatting to wont be watching VH-1 :p

[seldomseen]

This ignores the supply side of the equation, the vast increase in the number of men pursuing a very limited number of truly hot women. You'll have AFCs destroying every set you enter soon enough. What's to stop the AFC from claiming to know all this stuff too? Just the presence of more men with better game as rivals will increase whatever level of difficulty you had in the past.

Overnight, what Mystery has been teaching has become all but worthless, to everyone but him and those he made rich by selling out. Congratulations to his customers, because, like the HB who declares the guy who is playing her the love of her life, your guru has just seduced and abandoned you for a better offer from the media. Not only that, he got you to enjoy the trip while he sent your game to hell by tipping off the women and every other man in the joint.

Do you really think something you can pick up so easily off the internet is so secret and so powerful you're going to stand out from the other THOUSAND guys who want the same 10 you're drooling over? I guess those who said that the gurus make money off of desperate loser men were right.

Can I create my own material? Sure can and do. When I get paid like Mystery does, I'll be happy to release it to others just like he did. Until then, I think I'll just keep using the methods myself, make money doing regular work, and aviod the game-over problem this community is being hit with today and the *fourteen* times they will be rerunning the first episode of the show they rank at #1 on their roster.

This ranks up with Lincoln freeing the slave for the number of individual worlds that have been changed by a single stroke.


There are over 30,000 people registered on Fast Seduction, 26,000 on SoSuave, thousands on MysteryMethod, several thousand here, thousands on RSD. All the most popular sites. How many of those registered users actually participate, read the forums, give and take advice etc? A fraction! Out of the thousands on MysteryMethod I see the same post by the same people a lot. Then I see a newbie come along and post about getting his girl back, what to do in this situation etc and after about 4-5 post he quits.
People don't have deep interest in anything that takes work. If they did then everyone would be fit and healthy. You cannot reduce this stuff to magic, canned speeches, and routines. It's so much larger than that. Another thing: big ups to Mystery for coming up with his method but there's other methods out there. What if his method gets exposed and outted big time? Well lets see there's Charisma Arts, RSD, VinDicarlo, Pickup101, Badboy,
The Approach, etc. Again different offenses to produce touchdowns.

Learn from everyone, commit to no one unless your going to work for them.
This ranks up there with Lincoln freeing the slaves? Maybe we should add
Martin Luther Kings march and speech on Washington too. The Pickup Artist
show just made history!! LOL!! Come on Navy its not serious at all. Its a
scripted show! SCRIPTED!


Oh let me add one more thing. I've been clubbing since 1990. Yes 1990. Last Friday was the first time ever that I saw a guy running scripted game to a set. He
and I sat at the bar and talked for awhile. He says he's never met anyone that knows the method. You see what I mean?

[Dynamism]

Navy relies on the presumption that most guys are ignorant to the statistics in this world. He's trying to play number games with our heads. I personally think it's creepy to see a creepy person like him use manipulation tactics that were originally designed to benefit good people.

MM.com has over 48,000 members because you have to be a member to read some stuff. That's why people register. FastSeduction has been around for ages and has less than MM. Uh, duhhh. What does that mean to you, Navy?

Please quit using the bullshit advertising strategy all high school students are taught to recognize as manipulation. Using "everyone," and "never again" and all "fire and brimstone" strategy only shows your desperation. Smart people see through you. You can fool some people, but most just look at you as a mere entertainment object on a battery that is about to run out of juice.

Not even the energy bunny goes on forever, you know. :)

http://www.energyquest.ca.gov/story/images/chap05_energizer_bunny.jpg

[TruePlayer]

Navy relies on the presumption that most guys are ignorant to the statistics in this world. He's trying to play number games with our heads. I personally think it's creepy to see a creepy person like him use manipulation tactics that were originally designed to benefit good people.


"You should never argue with a crazy ma-a-a-man..."

[10Pin]

OHMYGOD

GUYS ARE GOING TO START TRYING TO PICK UP HOT WOMEN

AND THE HOT WOMEN WILL BLOW THEM ALL OFF

AND THERE WILL BE NO SEX ANYMORE

AND THE HUMAN RACE WILL DIE OUT

MYSTERY HAS SINGLE-HANDEDLY DESTROYED MANKIND






By the way, did anyone ever put it to rest - who DOES lie more?

[Navy236]

Navy relies on the presumption that most guys are ignorant to the statistics in this world. He's trying to play number games with our heads. I personally think it's creepy to see a creepy person like him use manipulation tactics that were originally designed to benefit good people.

MM.com has over 48,000 members because you have to be a member to read some stuff. That's why people register. FastSeduction has been around for ages and has less than MM. Uh, duhhh. What does that mean to you, Navy?

Please quit using the bullshit advertising strategy all high school students are taught to recognize as manipulation. Using "everyone," and "never again" and all "fire and brimstone" strategy only shows your desperation. Smart people see through you. You can fool some people, but most just look at you as a mere entertainment object on a battery that is about to run out of juice.

Not even the energy bunny goes on forever, you know. :)

http://www.energyquest.ca.gov/story/images/chap05_energizer_bunny.jpg

The PUA methods are the ones running out of juice.

Anyone notice the sudden influx of WOMEN who are now paying attention?

Stripperweb has strippers from just about every city in the western world posting there. Think it'll be easy to keep gaming them?

About three million people watch cable reality shows when they're popular, maybe more. This one might get six million. Then factor in YouTube, the media tour, the copycats, and so forth.

They don't mint an unlimited supply of hot women. You remind me of those guys who think they can bet $500 on their horse at the track and still get the same payoff without realizing that the pools are limited in size, and additional winning bets cut the payout for all.

[Navy236]

Oh let me add one more thing. I've been clubbing since 1990. Yes 1990. Last Friday was the first time ever that I saw a guy running scripted game to a set. He
and I sat at the bar and talked for awhile. He says he's never met anyone that knows the method. You see what I mean?

It means you're seeing "the method" turn up in new places.

I also see the same old "it's too hard to learn" argument that is used when trying to claim the game is not over, but when the methods are being SOLD, we hear about how EASY it is to use them.

It's very easy for an AFC to change his view on women once he sees evidence justifying the switch. It doesn't take any work at all for him to stop spending on women, or even to reopen his mind. Many avid PUAs were just as disbelieving AT FIRST. Let the VH-1 show run its course and many of those men will be converted.

[seldomseen]

It means you're seeing "the method" turn up in new places.

I also see the same old "it's too hard to learn" argument that is used when trying to claim the game is not over, but when the methods are being SOLD, we hear about how EASY it is to use them.

It's very easy for an AFC to change his view on women once he sees evidence justifying the switch. It doesn't take any work at all for him to stop spending on women, or even to reopen his mind. Many avid PUAs were just as disbelieving AT FIRST. Let the VH-1 show run its course and many of those men will be converted.


Converted to what? AFC's running a few routines.
I still don't understand what you're worried about? When I read about the show I didn't flinch. Why? Because I don't use those lines. You may know a grandmasters chess moves from studying his game but do you think you can beat him at chess. Do you think he's going to run those exact moves against you?
Hey I only have a second, I need a females opinion
"yeah, we've heard it before....we've seen the show"

Do you not know where to go from there? Do you not know how to control the frame and meta-frame? Do you not know how to subcommunicate powerful attractive qualities within yourself? If you don't you will never be good with women - show or no show. Thats the bottom line

[Navy236]

Converted to what? AFC's running a few routines.

Are workshop customers that? The viewers are AFCs getting a much-needed wakeup call the same as the men here once got.

I still don't understand what you're worried about?

I'm not worried about shit. I use my own material and designed a lot of the stuff that's hitting the mainstream now. I've had stuff in reserve for years and use that. Mystery got rich giving up the game to the media. If he hadn't, someone else would have. This was inevitable.

Not all guys can learn, and they still want sex. Hotties also still want them THINKING they have a chance, which is what this show is destroying. Calling them losers that can't be helped gets them to stop trying, which pulls the rugs out from under the hotties who rely on them for attention and resources.

How much "game" does it take for an AFC to just stop talking to a hottie or to stop giving her his money?


When I read about the show I didn't flinch. Why? Because I don't use those lines. You may know a grandmasters chess moves from studying his game but do you think you can beat him at chess.

I've beaten grandmasters in chess before several times in blitz games, straight out of my opening book. Memorization is the first step: making the right moves, then figuring out why they are correct. One must know both.

The point of my example was, how many chessplayers would fall into a trap once it's published. You say PUAs aren't tricking or trapping women? Of course they are. If all PUAs play as honestly as you guys make them out to be, then 90 percent of them are going home empty-handed because maybe 10 percent of women are hot.

Do you think he's going to run those exact moves against you?

Part of booking up is memorizing the best moves and knowing what to do against all the inferior deviations along the way.


Hey I only have a second, I need a females opinion
"yeah, we've heard it before....we've seen the show"

That's not the only game-over scenario. Here are a few more:

1. AFC crashes your set: "Wow, this loser got those lines from a website. Want to see it?"

2. PUA games her before you get to her, she's "in love" with him, and off the market. If he was a strong PUA, she won't cheat. If she cheats, it shows how weak the conquests are.

3. AFC refuses favors to your hottie friend. Now she needs money, a job, a place to stay, a ride, and someone to cry into the phone to for hours a night because the stuff you studied, he now studied, and he has nexted her.

4. You're in a relationship with a hottie who sees a replay of what she thought was a fun, spontanoues guy.

etc. etc. etc.

Odds are if the game offends her she won't even let on that's why she's blowing you off.


Do you not know where to go from there? Do you not know how to control the frame and meta-frame? Do you not know how to subcommunicate powerful attractive qualities within yourself?

Women know what subcommunication is. They know a rich man is comiplaining about his taxes to subcommunicate that he's rich. It's not as obtuse as it's made out to be. It's also try-hard. Never mind that women can also find posts like this which give alleged answers to getting busted in the field, while 100 times as many guys will be running this shit on them.


[quote[If you don't you will never be good with women - show or no show. Thats the bottom line[/QUOTE]

Workshop or no workshop? Why is that not the bottom line other than men spend money on those? There can't be one set of rules when pitching workshops and another when disclaiming how easy the stuff is to learn in another setting.

Not all guys are fundamentally desirable. The original purpose of the methods was to help the "losers" not increase the margins of the guys already winning.

Anyone can go on a board and claim anything. How many women have ever posted here or anywhere else to back up the male side of the stories posted? On VH-1, the cameras make it impossible to hide.

[coolguy]

Im watching the show tonight with my LTR whom I picked up using some of Mystery's exact sound bytes nearly verbatim. LOL. I don't see how you guys cn be so scarred. Sure, I'll probably get busted by her remembering some thigs. I'm actually going to tell her, "O ya, I met that guy out in Vegas and we hung out. I told him some of my ideas on picking up women and I guess he became noticed as a PUA later... That's crazy because he was pretty bad with women back then." Done deal. Turn him into a DHV for me.

If some girl said, "heard it before" do you thin Mystery would just go home crying and NEVER try PU again? Do you think he would even eject from the set? Do you think the girl will give a rat's ass if the hottest and coolest guy in the club is seen talking to her & he's using what *could possibly be* ideas that PUAs pioneered?

Guys are assuming that women are really trying to stop from getting laid. Their 65 million year old reptilian brains' do not respond to such logic. Their 6 million year old primate brains' do not respond to such logic. While our brains may have grown more complex since the Homo Erectus days, there is a ertain amount of this animal instinct left.

In my mind, our bodies are merely the equivilent of the fruiting body of a mushroom, something that pops up and survives long enough to spread under the correct conditions. People are basically programmed machines, but interesting machines none the less.

[Dox]

Here's my personal opinion on the show:

I think it will be popular for the first half of this first season. After that, interest will wane and the only people left watching it will be AFCs with PUA potential (but are too afraid to leave the house) and maybe a handful of others who just find the show entertaining. This will reach cult status at best - think about it. The majority of men do not like to be told that they're not doing things right when it comes to women. Think about it a bit more - There are more men that have little to no problem getting laid than there are people who need help with attaining these certain social skills. These "naturals" will watch an episode or two, say "what a bunch of losers", then watch UFC with their buddies. This show's intention, I think, is to reach out to more people, make them aware of Mystery's method, and this way more desperate AFCs will eventually find his site, wiki his name, buy the books, learn his method, and eventually become skilled in the Venusian Arts.

Ultimately, Mystery's just trying to help the AFCs out there who are in a tough spot when it comes to relationships. He knows the TV show probably won't reach a ton of people, but the few that it does reach will ultimately end up bettering themselves if they put in time and effort. As far as the money goes, of course Mystery deserves every single cent of it. He invented an entire sect of Social Dynamics science - wouldn't you expect to be paid accordingly if you invented a science that positively influenced millions of peoples' lives in one way or another?

I think the show's success is being grossly exaggerated, but I also think it will serve its purpose. Either way, I'll be tuning in tonight.

[Pai Mei]

I...designed a lot of the stuff that's hitting the mainstream now...I've beaten grandmasters in chess before several times in blitz games, straight out of my opening book.

Wow, make the comedy stop...

[Flair]

Navy,

If you claim that Venusian Arts stuff does not work, then what are your proposed "pickup solutions" then?

[seldomseen]

Navy is this you ragging on Mystery and the show and such. LOL!

http://media.podshow.com/media/8819/episodes/73665/pt21-73665-08-05-2007_pshow_123140.mp3

[Navy236]

Im watching the show tonight with my LTR whom I picked up using some of Mystery's exact sound bytes nearly verbatim. LOL.

LOL he didn't prove the girlfriend exists, and even if shee did LOL she hasn't even begun to process what's happened, but we know that she's got all the ammunition she'll ever need should she ever decide not to try to protect her 3emotional investment.

I don't see how you guys cn be so scarred. Sure, I'll probably get busted by her remembering some thigs. I'm actually going to tell her, "O ya, I met that guy out in Vegas and we hung out. I told him some of my ideas on picking up women and I guess he became noticed as a PUA later... That's crazy because he was pretty bad with women back then."

If she comes to this site, she'll find that in a post, including the part about LYING about your true involvement in the community. Good relationships aren't built on lies. Don't worry for her, however, as the AFC guys who've wanted to take your place also have all the ammunition they need now.

Oh, and if the methods are so unstoppable, how do all the other PUAs get stopped when they run game on your little slut? (just showing her her man won't fight for her, don't take offense).


Done deal. Turn him into a DHV for me.

Truly high value men aren't afraid to tell the world who they're fucking. You are.


If some girl said, "heard it before" do you thin Mystery would just go home crying and NEVER try PU again? Do you think he would even eject from the set? Do you think the girl will give a rat's ass if the hottest and coolest guy in the club is seen talking to her & he's using what *could possibly be* ideas that PUAs pioneered?

Mystery uses money, status, fame and Hollywood connections to get laid. He wouldn't care either way.

Your slut trash girlfriend has also "heard it before." Do the methods still work on her? How many other PUAs did she fuck last week? Are the methods unstoppable only when YOU use them or are other guys going to get their turn? You guys talk like a game of musical chairs doesn't change with 500 or 5,000 players as long as you keep the number of chairs constant.


Guys are assuming that women are really trying to stop from getting laid.

If "women like getting laid" is the answer now, why wasn't it the answer before? Why were all these men having difficulty if women were always getting laid?

What women are trying to stop is being faked out by losers who get their game from websites. Mystery has moved on to running groupie game so he doesn't really care if he sells out the community because all it'll do is help him with the game he's running now. At your expense.



Their 65 million year old reptilian brains' do not respond to such logic.

So the next PUA to game your whore of a girlfriend can count on it working? You can't have it both ways: either the methods can be stopped and too many PUAs are going to ruin it for everyone, or they can't be stopped and women like your streetwalking girlfriend are going to allow PUA gangangs.


Their 6 million year old primate brains' do not respond to such logic. While our brains may have grown more complex since the Homo Erectus days, there is a ertain amount of this animal instinct left.

And if you go from one guy trying to exploit this instinct to 100 guys, things change even if her reactions do not.


In my mind, our bodies are merely the equivilent of the fruiting body of a mushroom, something that pops up and survives long enough to spread under the correct conditions. People are basically programmed machines, but interesting machines none the less.

So interesting women are going to fuck 100 times as many men?

Keep dreaming.

[Greystoke]

Navy236, this is getting old.

Why does it bother you so much? Why?

[seldomseen]

are you satisfied Navy? The show aired and as I thought it was scripted and told zero about the community. Its no different than the show 'the White Rapper' or any other reality show. They script it like a fairy tale Cinderella story.

Is the game over now?

[Johnny_Favorite]

watching the show right now, so far it's boring.

[seldomseen]

it was kind of boring. I can see why it generated low interest.

[Johnny_Favorite]

it was kind of boring. I can see why it generated low interest.


Yeah, not that its a bad show, but reality TV tends to be most compelling when you have outrageous personalities i.e. Flavor Flav. This show doesn't seem low brow enough for me:)

[Nutz]

WTF? Am I the only one that liked it? I'm looking forward to seeing the guys shed their old ways. I really identify with them--I see certain aspects of my own personality in each one.

[Johnny_Favorite]

WTF? Am I the only one that liked it? I'm looking forward to seeing the guys shed their old ways. I really identify with them--I see certain aspects of my own personality in each one.

It's getting a little better. Just watched Mystery and company work the room. Was suprised to see Matador use old canned material like "pick a number between 1 and 4"

[Greystoke]

It's getting a little better. Just watched Mystery and company work the room. Was suprised to see Matador use old canned material like "pick a number between 1 and 4"

The old canned material are already out there. There is no harm revealing them.

It was an okay show. A bit like Seduction school, where Wayne elise did not reveal all of his method to the public. But I am sure that Charisma arts got heaps more business afterwards.

Seeing the masters in action is awesome.

[Johnny_Favorite]

The old canned material are already out there. There is no harm revealing them.

It was an okay show. A bit like Seduction school, where Wayne elise did not reveal all of his method to the public. But I am sure that Charisma arts got heaps more business afterwards.

Seeing the masters in action is awesome.


I wasn't pointing out because I thought it was harmful, I just expected more from someone like Matador than old canned material.