For the Spiritually inclined....Question on the orgasm.

[delphim]

So.....
for those of you who play with energy - Question.
I know this forum has all kinds of people from so many backgrounds, levels of wisdom etc.
In the esoteric world the Orgasm is seen as something to be controlled, and not quickly rushed to. If you can hold and escalate this energy rather than spend it, often not only can a full body situation occur, but it can be used for transformational situations as well - many of us call this working with Kundalini....In the taoist tradition, most believe that men learning to hold their ejaculation, and cultivate this energy instead is the way to some real power - (there is a section in Neil Strauss' book where he actually tried doing this) and the other belief that for women this is the opposite, in that the more we express the energy, the more potent we become....
Tell me please....from all of your backgrounds, faiths and studies, what have you read and come to believe?

[Argo navis]

Thank you for asking. Well, all I can account for is... my primary and me have a very deep kinship, we are soul mates, period.

I've had similar experiences previously, but nothing that compares to *that* other day. Basically, I induced extremely strong arousal using David Shade stuff - Telling her a pretty tale in lengthy details, of what I would do to her if I was by her side, and inducind a transe state all the way through, using NLP, telling her she "can feel this pleasure spreading all through her body", etc.

Gradually anchoring more and more orgasm triggers and exciting fantasies in her mind.

This topped a lot of - absence of physical sexual activity between us, for a couple of weeks, we couldn't, and didn't really have time to look anywhere else or to... you know, get our hands on self entertainment - coughcough.

She had a neck pain that day, serious problems from a difficult night and loads of stress, and the fact of telling the tale, feeling a deep bond, and both of us getting into... You dared spell the word : since my deeper studies and investment into many texts, namely buddhic texts, and NLP/hypnosis, I have had, myself, moments of bliss. Including a now almost total Kundalini awakening (I can do freaky stuff with that nowadays), and on that particular day, the strong sexual tension, and overall mood, state of "being the Ghost and the flame" in perfect harmony with myself...

Well.. Not only did I get her to have a strong and wild orgasm, and shared it fully, I planted anchors in her to "keep slowly enjoying the pleasure, which grows, and grows, and grows, until she cannot stand it anymore".

...

She came continuously for about 30 minutes, and this has - removed - her neck pain altogether, through the whole process. Plus it stuck her into "super positive mood", of course, for the following days :) And more. But I am.. well, it's not that I am shy about the topics, it's just that I - wish - more people would try to bring their sexual experience to such lengths, but rarely have had occasions to discuss this.

...

It has enabled much more than "soothing" in her, it has awakened her intuition and sensitivity quite a lot. Unfortunately, these additional benefits didn't last for more than a few days, but this is something we can, and will, take much further.

I think the key is : love. The key is - abandoning material notions of "possession" and "immediate satisfaction" to focus on genuine and pure love : it's not about the time you spend away from each other, to me, or holding back ejaculation, it's about how much purity there is to your feelings through the act. How much you distance yourself from ego driven base desire.

...And yeah. "Regular" sex DOES taste like cardboard after stuff like this :)

[Amber Nectar]

This is also Chi! Power of chi, throwing chi, taking in chi. Good question.

[azazels_wolf]

delphim, you know some of what Argo and I have been talking about.... I do regard this as HIGHLY important, this ability to cultivate energy, raise the kundalini, and extend orgasm into something beyond human experience.... its ability to heal and enlighten is unparalled, and Argo has obviously been discovering exactly that. :D

Our culture trains us to waste sexual energy and not see its potential.... when this training is undone, all limitations fall away.

[dhies]

If anyone has any links to read up on this, It'd help out a ton. I'm sure myself and others would love to look into this.

I've done a little bit of that in the past without actually KNOWING I was doing that. Turned out great for us both.

[Sincerelee]

...And yeah. "Regular" sex DOES taste like cardboard after stuff like this :)

I developed a similar sexual interaction with my, then, wife. She got addicted and selfish. She expected me to put that kind of energy into her every time. But, when I expected the same, she refused. After a while, I lost my desire. Eventually, I stopped working hard, and she never appreciated what I was giving her.

Ladies, and guys, if you find a person who gives this much to you, remember reciprocity. And, never think everything else you do makes up for this one thing. In order for a lover to bring you to this state, they are giving every ounce of their being to you...100%. No matter what else you do, it will not match what this level of love takes from them and gives to you.

[Argo navis]

Sincerelee, I am finding this to be true. I am able to channel this energy, as I said, but I am discovering the receiving end can deny it and waste it. Am curious to discover more about this. Also, I find the very same essence is an underlying element - quite obviously - of any sexual intercourse. Focusing on the flesh and self gratification is hinderance, and impacts sexual pleasure - any way you look at it.

[azazels_wolf]

Sincerelee and Argo:

When you are connected, her energy is right there. Accessible to you at any time. Failure to be on the receiving end is your failure to get into state and surrender to the presence of that energy, as she is doing with yours. Failure to take it into yourself. Breathe it in. Receive. It's right there... you don't have to depend on her to send it to you. If you are capable of sending the energy, you are capable of completing the circuit. The only thing that prevents you completing the circuit on your own is fear or limiting beliefs. This is not a one-sided endeavor unless you or her MAKE it one, and you do that to yourself through your own state.

It's not hard work. If it is, you're pushing far too hard, and not allowing yourself to receive. Argo's example of sharing in the pleasure is a good example of the circuit I'm talking about.

And yes, if she is not receptive to the energy YOU are sending, the desired effect will not occur. She has to be in a surrender state, or at least on the edge of one.

[Argo navis]

Wolf, it wasn't my failure this very morning, at that moment she was closing herself and fighting her demons, which yielded *that other situation*.

[azazels_wolf]

Yup, understood. Remember that the process will require her to work through her pain, face-to-face with it... so if she's not willing to do that, she WILL be closing herself off to what you can give her. She has to acknowledge the inner "demons" and then release them to you.

[Argo navis]

For an interesting twist in topics, I find the same energy turned inwards yields similar results. In other words, loving and accepting oneself fully, and nurturing one's self growth and balance gives those.. Magnetic tingles down the spine. Or..?-) ,)

[delphim]

Argo - what you are talking about....this love of the self is also possible I think....
for me right now it is about seeing that what ever I am sensing in the moment as being the real lover and opening to it as if I would a lover....melting into it and saying YES completely to it - All we really have is what we are sensing without interpretatioin within the present moment....what if that is our most intimate relationship and what if we could receive it no matter what as if it were our soul mate??? I am able to do this some times and when I can, my energy opens, flows and becomes more pleasurable and then other times - good luck and I just wander off and go find something on television....

Excellent comments everyone...what perplexes me is where does the truth live in all this stuff the sages write about...men not ejaculating to preserve their energy (which I more or less understand) and women being just fine and dandy to express them selves as much as they please.....the odd thing tho' is the paradox...because men embody the "spending force" in occult knowledge and women are the "cultivating" / cauldron creation force in this information...so why is it opposite that a man shouldn't spend and yet a women should (even though she is the "cultivator"??????) ......huh?
whats the deal here?????
obviously I get there is something to creating and cooking the sexual tension and multiplying the pleasure that is building...I get that and have used that oh so deliciously...but what is the deal that its okay for the woman to waste this and to actually do her best to spend spend spend this energy (for those of you who don't know - it is often written in taoist sexual occult texts that this is the highest path a woman should take to refine her energy...) - I know that it is amazing for cramps etc. and headaches and to work with any sort of stagnation in our bodies...but there is another level that Im just not getting...has anybody else read or studied anything differently in other sacred texts etc.?????
I have tried both extremes...have been celibate like a nun for many years and have played with debauchery as well.....hmmmmm........
enough of this~
let's just go and get some waffles.....
off to bed for now.
maybe I will have a yummy dream that will sort it out....
:)
meh.

[Argo navis]

Hahahaha.. Here is a word of advice from the good old Dragon Knight : this reflects the natural embodiement of the vegetal pole of life by women. Women are meant to give and nurture life, have sharp intuition, and - strikingly, in a painting class for example, perceive and draw the big picture first. As such, their sex drive is meant to be free from bondage, and their love, to be given freely. Men are decisional, logical, and the embodiement of the animal pole of life. They draw the details first. Meant to be true Venusian artists, their energy, in it's most primal form, creates or destroys without seeing the big picture. However, divine essence, pure love, the strongest chi, lies at the frontier between all extremes - it is between good and evil, female and male, in the embrace and acceptance of our whole, positive and negative, when all our realities are level and we are able to shine love inwards that reflects, automagically, as giving value outwards.. It is in the kiss of the two worlds we access truth that's brighter than gem, and trust that's purer than pearl. When we are both the yin and the yang, we become masterful lovers. Happy kinky dreamin' :)

[azazels_wolf]

delphim, yes, I understand your questions, and I think I can resolve the crux for you.

There are different schools and viewpoints on these issues. There's a lot of misconceptions and misunderstandings regarding the teachings. Ultimately, it depends on what your GOAL is.

The "cultivation of sexual energy" teaching actually applies to both men and women in similar ways. The point of all this is that if you desire to experience tantric orgasm, you must have some sexual energy stored up.

Genital/climactic orgasm results in the energy being spent and wasted. Kundalini rises very BRIEFLY, in a quick burst of pleasure, only to go back to sleep almost as quickly. At the same time, your sexual energy is encouraged to move downwards and even to escape the body altogether. This is ESPECIALLY true for men when they ejaculate. A LOT of energy is lost when that happens, with the loss of the semen. Female orgasm can ALSO result in the dissipation of sexual energy, even if it does not have the same explosive quality. Women tend to have more stored up and will lose less when they orgasm than men do, but the loss still occurs.

Tantric orgasm (energy/full-body/valley orgasm) seeks to EXTEND the orgasmic state by slowing down the whole process and AVOIDING climactic orgasm. By avoiding this loss of energy, it builds upon itself and is made to rise up the spine to be sublimated and transformed. When kundalini rises, it results in greater and greater waves of climax in which the energy is not lost, but transformed into an incredible force that propels you into ecstasy and higher consciousness, far beyond and for much longer periods of time than what regular orgasm can bring. When people talk about the hour-long orgasm, or the 4-hour-long orgasm, this is what is happening.

Full-body orgasm, when taken to its higher levels, also results in the destruction of the ego. But before this can happen, kundalini demands that your emotional issues, pain, etc. be fully faced, worked through, and released, no matter how difficult these things are. As it rises, if you cannot face yourself, especially what is contained in your shadow self, you will not reach bliss or the enlightened state.

Climactic orgasm is your ego's way of maintaining itself. To avoid facing itself and its pain. Your ego knows that if you bypass this shortcut, it will be destroyed. So it seeks to tempt you into taking the short-cut, avoiding the pain, avoiding the exploration of emotions and consciousness..... paving the way for ego to be easily re-established after your quick orgasm is done and over with.


Kundalini risen will destroy the ego and transform you. It will give you bliss, healing, and enlightenment. It will give you strength of body, growth of mind, and evolution of spirit. It will nurture your evolution on all levels, sometimes with incredible power and quickness. If you want the MOST of all this, to grow as quickly as possible, to reach ecstasy as often as possible.... then the teachings tell you that you should only have a climactic orgasm when you are full to over-flowing and basically cannot prevent it from occuring any longer. This will not happen as frequently as you think. And as you progress, you will find that you can hold and channel greater and greater amounts of energy without feeling that you cannot hold onto it any longer.

It also depends on age... younger people will find that their energy is replenished more quickly, and may be expended more often. Young men especially. This is fine, and necessary sometimes. But as you get older, it becomes necessary to focus more on conserving the energy and not wasting it, because the impact of expending it will be greater, and more long-lasting. The older masters eventually seek to avoid the loss altogether, and often find their life greatly extended, and more.

True love of course is a very important piece of this process. When the heart is fully opened by kundalini, you will feel this love very intensely... but ego cultivates fear and will try to hold you back through this same fear. You'll have to surrender your fears in order to experience the gifts of love.

I hope this helped to resolve those conflicting questions....

[delphim]

Thank you thank you,
some great stuff to think about....
Azazel, you made a comment about swimming about in the energy to such an extent, cultivating it so deeply and not spending it - I find that I also use this technique when I go out to a club etc. If I don't spend the energy, build it as much as possible - I am able to take it with me and then use it, percolate it about etc.
Good fun~

[world.ends.now]

just wanted to say i love PUAs

[Argo navis]

I prefer Venusian Artists, both the term and the underlying notion of coming together for better social, sensual, and sexual skills. But yeah, agreed. ;)

[azazels_wolf]

Thank you thank you,
some great stuff to think about....
Azazel, you made a comment about swimming about in the energy to such an extent, cultivating it so deeply and not spending it - I find that I also use this technique when I go out to a club etc. If I don't spend the energy, build it as much as possible - I am able to take it with me and then use it, percolate it about etc.
Good fun~


I agree, the energy will definitely have an effect on those around you. It will affect how noticeable you are, how much attention you can draw and maintain... how you interact and exchange with those who vibe with you.

And you're welcome. ;)

[RoCKoNoVA]

wow this is great!

any good books to recommend on this subject, Azazel?

[azazels_wolf]

RoCKoNoVA:

I'll send you a PM as soon as I get my inbox cleared out.