Easier for girls?

[Slyy]

yo what's good peoples? Ok so first off i'm just asking your opinions, this is not meant to get into an argument over who has it worse. (i've seen how some of these threads turn QUICKLY lol.) But hey we're all fam, so on with the question.

I read a fr by one of the female pua's and I was digging it. But after I read it, a huge question came to mind. Is PU really easy for girls, or is it actually a challenge? From what i've seen, all a girl really needs to do to get 90% of the guys out there is do the hair a bit, wear something cute, and just go for it. But that's just what i've seen lately. What do you think? I mean I know that AA affects everyone (talking to strangers is difficult) but whenever i've been approached, or seen a girl approach its mostly some lame opener, that if I were to use would prob get blown out instantly.

So what do you guys (gals included in that) think less work for girls? It seems a ton easier for that !close if you want it, just walk up to the guy and make him feel like he's the shit and bam...dinner is served.

[-TruTh-]

I feel that woman will always have a upper hand on Men... considering are society is designed for Men to approach... I can only see female PUAs learning this to become Socially liberated but as for Picking up men... always will be easier.

[thach1ef]

Take an average guy and an average girl. Put them both in the same bar which is composed 50/50 of guys and girls of all levels.

Now have each one of them raise their hand and shout "Who wants to have sex with me tonight?"

The girl will have a line. The guy will not.

[Slyy]

Ya I feel that. Its always been that way. There's just differences in the way men and women opperate. Its the same as no matter how much of a tomboy, or how cool she is a girl can never "kick it with the guys" on an equal level. (paraphrased from patrice oneal)

Ladies, anyone care to share exactly how much of your skills go into a pick up? I'm just trying to find out exactly how much of the "PUA" goes into "female PUA" For example what is it you have to be concerned about?

[CrazyWilly]

The key isn't getting laid, the key is getting laid by who you want to get laid by. Thus both men and women need to be improving their skills.

[Prophet]

CrazyWilly makes an important distinction here. Sure, maybe a bunch of guys are going to hit on even an average girl on a given night, but are they going to be the kind of guys she wants to go home with?

I think it's impossible to gauge whether or not the dating scene is easier for men or women. Women may not have the same problems we do, but they do have a whole slew of completely different problems that we never even have to think about. In the real world, it's not as easy as just walking up to a guy and saying "Hey, let's fuck." There are all sorts of other factors to deal with that most men aren't even aware of.

It's neither harder or easier, it's just different.

[thach1ef]

CrazyWilly makes an important distinction here. Sure, maybe a bunch of guys are going to hit on even an average girl on a given night, but are they going to be the kind of guys she wants to go home with?

I think it's impossible to gauge whether or not the dating scene is easier for men or women. Women may not have the same problems we do, but they do have a whole slew of completely different problems that we never even have to think about. In the real world, it's not as easy as just walking up to a guy and saying "Hey, let's fuck." There are all sorts of other factors to deal with that most men aren't even aware of.

It's neither harder or easier, it's just different.

I find this somewhat intriguing.

My short time here, I've read an awful lot of what's posted but don't have much insight on the "official" PUA material.

However from what I've seen, most people here feel that women are out there to have sex just as much as guys are. That seems to be a building block of the PUA community.

If that's the truth, then I don't think women have it as hard or harder than guys do. I think they have it easier. Because it's a fact that an average looking women could easily have sex when she wants it whereas it's not the same for an average looking guy. All else being equal.

In my eyes, in order for the PUA community to admit that women have it just as hard as men, albeit differently, then I think they would also need to admit that women aren't out there just to get fucked as much as you guys portray.

Kinda put yourself into a catch 22 as far as I see it.

[Prophet]

I think I'm going to write up a whole article about this subject to clear this up. So look for that in the next few days.

In the meantime, look at my post again.

It may be easier for girl A to get guy B into bed than it would be if the situation was reversed. And if you just want to look at it from the perspective of who could have more sex if they wanted to, then yes, it would be easier for a woman. But there's a bigger picture here that we're not seeing when we make that statement. When you consider the dating scene from both perspectives as a whole, you will quickly see that it's not as simple as we men tend to make it out to be.

[thach1ef]

I think I'm going to write up a whole article about this subject to clear this up. So look for that in the next few days.

In the meantime, look at my post again.

It may be easier for girl A to get guy B into bed than it would be if the situation was reversed. And if you just want to look at it from the perspective of who could have more sex if they wanted to, then yes, it would be easier for a woman. But there's a bigger picture here that we're not seeing when we make that statement. When you consider the dating scene from both perspectives as a whole, you will quickly see that it's not as simple as we men tend to make it out to be.

I'll look for it because I'd be interested to see your take on it.

I did read what you wrote, but you're very vague about it, so I'm not quite sure what you mean about in the "big picture".

The question was whether girls have it easier in picking up guys. The answer is yes, in my opinion.

If we want to start talking about meaningful relationships and girlfriend/boyfriend, husband/wife material, that's a different story than the question posed.

[-TruTh-]

I think if a attractive girl approached me and asked me if I wanted to fuck... I would do it... hehehe -- Truth

[Decibel]

The question was whether girls have it easier in picking up guys. The answer is yes, in my opinion.

So why don't they?
I don't wanna second guess what Prophet has to say, but I'm assuming it has to do with all the other stuff...social conditioning, ASD, bringing the value of the social circle down, being penetrated, risking pregnancy, etc.
It should be really easy for girls to hook up, but the reality is it isn't, because of all of the above and more. The more time you spend in field the more apparent this becomes.

[Prophet]

You guessed it Decibel! That's all certainly part of it.

My plans fell through for tonight, so I figured I'd get this out while it was all still fresh in my mind (lucky you guys!).

I created a whole new thread in main discussion because I really didn't want to take over this one. You can read it here (http://venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?p=117711#post117711).

Looking forward to everyone's thoughts!

[thach1ef]

So why don't they?


Because they don't need to. Because they have us guys drooling over them all the time, they have a shit ton more options. They don't need to bring it down to our level. They can just sit there and wait for guys to come up to them.

That's why.

[Prophet]

Because they don't need to. Because they have us guys drooling over them all the time, they have a shit ton more options. They don't need to bring it down to our level. They can just sit there and wait for guys to come up to them.

That's why.

But they don't. That's the point Decibel is making here.

If what you are saying was true, then why do I always hear from my female friends and wing-girls how horney they have been lately, and how they need to get out and get laid? If it really was so easy, why do I always here my friends say things like:

"Do you think he likes me too?"
"I hope I can get him alone tonight"
"Why wont he call me?"
"How can I get him back to my place?"

and so on and so on. If you spend a lot of time with women in general, you will quickly see that it's not as easy as you may have thought. An attractive women may have more options than a man, but there are plenty of factors that prevent them from capitalizing on them (which I have tried to address in the other thread.)

I think the problem here is that you're trying agrue that pick-up is easier for women, and therefore they should have no problem getting laid. The problems with this is that, despite your attempts to rationalize your point of view, women still have a hard time getting laid. That's the reality of the situation. Other than going out and meeting a lot of women, I really don't know how else I can show you that.

[thach1ef]

But they don't. That's the point Decibel is making here.

If what you are saying was true, then why do I always hear from my female friends and wing-girls how horney they have been lately, and how they need to get out and get laid? If it really was so easy, why do I always here my friends say things like:

"Do you think he likes me too?"
"I hope I can get him alone tonight"
"Why wont he call me?"
"How can I get him back to my place?"

and so on and so on. If you spend a lot of time with women in general, you will quickly see that it's not as easy as you may have thought. An attractive women may have more options than a man, but there are plenty of factors that prevent them from capitalizing on them (which I have tried to address in the other thread.)

I think the problem here is that you're trying agrue that pick-up is easier for women, and therefore they should have no problem getting laid. The problems with this is that, despite your attempts to rationalize your point of view, women still have a hard time getting laid. That's the reality of the situation. Other than going out and meeting a lot of women, I really don't know how else I can show you that.

They don't what? Have guys coming up to them all the time? Are you serious? You're being contradictory towards the entire backbone of VA if that's what you are saying.

The whole purpose of VA is to make yourself DIFFERENT FROM ALL THE GUYS GOING UP TO GIRLS. So how can you sit there and say that they don't have guys going up to them?

The issue at hand, is that they are being selective. Which is not a problem or anything. It's just that if they wanted to have sex with an average looking guy, they could. They don't want that though. They want more. They want to have some fulfillment. They are looking for MORE than just sex.

I'm really surprised you of all people can't discern the difference here.

I'm not an idiot like most guys. I know women talk about this all the time. I probably have more female friends than guys. So yes, I hear this sort of stuff all the time. The problem is, you're not hearing the rest of what they are saying.

It isn't about any random dude. It's about specific guys that they are interested in. They don't want to just get laid. They want to get laid by a specific guy or type of guy.

They are being more selective than guys would be. That's the issue. That's the reason why they are coming home and saying these things.

The problems with this is that, despite your attempts to rationalize your point of view, women still have a hard time getting laid. That's the reality of the situation.

As far as saying women have a hard time getting laid in general. I really can't agree with that. I'm not sure where you're from and if it might have to do with your geographic location. But girls up here in Boston don't have a hard time getting laid. Sure, UGLY girls do. But a half decent girl up here is not having any issues with that. OTHER than the fact she might not be getting laid by her prince charming.

But like I said. That's a WHOLE other conversation if we want to go there.

[Decibel]

The issue at hand, is that they are being selective. Which is not a problem or anything. It's just that if they wanted to have sex with an average looking guy, they could. They don't want that though. They want more. They want to have some fulfillment. They are looking for MORE than just sex.

They are being more selective than guys would be. That's the issue.

First, we can't make a blanket statement about what all women are looking for. Some are more selective than guys, some aren't. I'm probably more selective than most of my girl friends.

Second, many girls want a good hard shag and that's it. No emotional connection, no follow-up. Just someone they can get a release with.

Last, imo, most of a girl's selectivity (as it would appear to a man) is not by choice, and I think that's what you're missing. If a girl is attracted to me, comfortable, knows in her logical mind that I'm non-judgmental and can have NSA sex with me, do you think she'll make it easy for herself to hook up? Probably not. She'll self-sabotage every step of the way. She'll put up shit test after ASD after flake after LMR after flake. It doesn't matter how hot and bothered a girl is by me, she will invariably put up resistance much of the way. Why? For one thing, she wants to feel like she's desirable enough to be pursued. She doesn't want to take responsibility for anything that happens. And she doesn't want to look like a slut. Most guys probably would give up somewhere along the line, unless you knew that her resistance was token.
Hence, it's hard for girls to get laid.

I need to read Prophet's thread now.

[-TruTh-]

First, we can't make a blanket statement about what all women are looking for. Some are more selective than guys, some aren't. I'm probably more selective than most of my girl friends.

Second, many girls want a good hard shag and that's it. No emotional connection, no follow-up. Just someone they can get a release with.

Last, imo, most of a girl's selectivity (as it would appear to a man) is not by choice, and I think that's what you're missing. If a girl is attracted to me, comfortable, knows in her logical mind that I'm non-judgmental and can have NSA sex with me, do you think she'll make it easy for herself to hook up? Probably not. She'll self-sabotage every step of the way. She'll put up shit test after ASD after flake after LMR after flake. It doesn't matter how hot and bothered a girl is by me, she will invariably put up resistance much of the way. Why? For one thing, she wants to feel like she's desirable enough to be pursued. She doesn't want to take responsibility for anything that happens. And she doesn't want to look like a slut. Most guys probably would give up somewhere along the line, unless you knew that her resistance was token.
Hence, it's hard for girls to get laid.

I need to read Prophet's thread now.

Plow Plow plow.... and then Bang -- Truth

[azazels_wolf]

Last, imo, most of a girl's selectivity (as it would appear to a man) is not by choice, and I think that's what you're missing. If a girl is attracted to me, comfortable, knows in her logical mind that I'm non-judgmental and can have NSA sex with me, do you think she'll make it easy for herself to hook up? Probably not. She'll self-sabotage every step of the way. She'll put up shit test after ASD after flake after LMR after flake. It doesn't matter how hot and bothered a girl is by me, she will invariably put up resistance much of the way. Why? For one thing, she wants to feel like she's desirable enough to be pursued. She doesn't want to take responsibility for anything that happens. And she doesn't want to look like a slut. Most guys probably would give up somewhere along the line, unless you knew that her resistance was token.
Hence, it's hard for girls to get laid.



I think whether or not "she will invariably put up resistance much of the way" is really dependent upon each situational context and the individual man and woman involved.

I've noticed that the way any particular woman handles the process depends upon the circumstances. i.e. she is not always consistent with the level and frequency of resistance.

For example, to put this into practical terms, any given girl may put up resistance and make it very difficult to get laid with guy A, but then when she meets guy B at some later time she'll go to bed with him much more quickly, maybe even PUSH the process along. She doesn't INVARIABLY put up resistance or refrain from taking responsibility.... it's only SOME situations.

Any thoughts as to WHY this may be, what factors contribute to resistance every step of the way with guy A, vs. little resistance with guy B?

[RoCKoNoVA]

The key isn't getting laid, the key is getting laid by who you want to get laid by. Thus both men and women need to be improving their skills.


damn! thats a great quote.

girls definitely have a lot more offers on the table.

[Jewels8]

As a girl I would say that it's harder in a different way. Yeah, we want sex and we can get that (mostly), but we also want you to wake up and be our boyfriends after (more often than not).


And another thought, what if the girl that targets you is your obstacle? Won't she have a tough time picking you up if your thinking about her friend?