The Truth About Relationships & Love

[Prophet]

Howdy everyone!

Here's another interesting article from my good friend LL (http://venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15552).

There have been a couple of really good threads about love (http://www.venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10495) in the past, and I find this one interesting because it looks at things from a logical perspective rather than an emotional one. Each of us should read this and ask ourselves a couple of questions...

If you were in love with someone and then found someone better, would you stay? Would your emotional connection prevent you from leaving someone who was a logically better choice? If you did leave them, were you really even in love at all? Where is the line between making a logical decision, and an emotional one? And finally, given your answers to those questions, how would you feel if the roles were reversed?

Share your thoughts and enjoy!

----------------------


Sometimes I think people just pretend that they are in love, that they actually care. I mean coupling off is something that comes naturally to people, but in truth how many of us are just in relationships waiting for something BETTER to come along.

How many of you can honestly say that the person you are with is the one you want to be with, forever and ever? What if someone came along who had more money, better looks, a smarter wit? What if someone came along that gave you all the things your partner did, but with bonuses? Would you go, or would you stay?

Are we just kidding ourselves to think that the person we are with is content with just us? If someone came along that had a better ass then me, a better smile, prettier hair, a bigger bust, dressed better, sucked dick better, sucked dick MORE, had a cuter laugh, didn't get bossy and up in arms over silly things so much.... Would my boyfriend drop me and pick her up?

Would he be stupid if he didnt?

If someone came along that called me more, that was better looking, that sent me cute love letters, that had a bigger dick, that had more money... Would I drop my boyfriend and run into the arms of this new suppossed prince charming?

Would I be stupid if I didnt?

How much loyalty is really in a partnership, a coupling, a relationship? How down can you really be for someone before you get swept away by someone new?

Is marriage just a silly notion passed down from society to society, time to time? Is it honest to say we will really be happy with just one person for the rest of our lives?

Either way:

Am I the only person who thinks like this?

[Mack Wild]

No.

The fact is that most people in society (especially men) latch onto the first girl that will give them the time of day. Then one day they wake up and ask themselves why they are still with this person. People change, circumstances change.

Marriage is suppose to be the ultimate claim of love and devotion to one another and yet there is over a 50 percent divorce rate in the United States.

Why?

It's because people listen to love songs and watch hollywood movies and idealize the concept of love. Everyone wants to fall and love and raise families and have kids. They get so addicted to the idea of someone else saving them, someone outside of themselves, that they rush into things and have little titles like "girlfriend" and shack up with them and play house.

Then when things don't turn out to be all rainbows and unicorns they try to cling to what they have and then wonder why that just makes it worse.

It's because you were trying to fill that void, that hole inside yourself with someone else.

You can't CREATE love to satisfy yourself. It's not like going out and getting yourself a cheeseburger.

That's why this community exists. If every single girl or boy you have ever been with was the right one then you wouldn't be here right now. This place is about developing a life, an attitude, a belief system, and a skillset that allows you to make better choices and gain more experience so that someday you can find the right person and BE the right person -- instead of USING SOMEONE.

[Decibel]

Thought-provoking. I'm gonna pass on addressing marriage, because the reasons behind it are far more complicated than just being in love (religious, financial, wanting or raising a kid, etc). imo, one should have reasons other than being in love to get married, because that's a house of cards waiting to fall apart.

I've been in AFC love before, many times. At the time it felt like I was in love. Looking back, it was delusional and scarcity thinking. If you must overlook too many issues to be with a girl, you're lowering your standards, and coming from a place of scarcity. Examples, if you: have significant moral differences, live a great distance away, have different procreative goals.

So, before I'd even consider something 'being in love,' there must not be severe compromise, by either person. If both people are in tune across the board, then being in love can occur.
At that point, something better may come into the picture and tempt you away. But if you've assured the above, how much better could another person be? If my current GF has triple Ds and I'm a breast man, then there's not that much room for improvement. If that girl has a smart and funny mind and keeps me engaged mentally, I wouldn't necessarily be happier with someone smarter. If she's great in bed and keeps me satisfied, how much more sex would I need to be happy?
All my conditions would be met, and it would highly unlikely someone could tempt me away.

The problem with this is, how many girls out there totally rise to one's standards, across the board? They are few. And so temptation will typically exist.

So really, once you have adopted abundance mindset and have raised the bar, it becomes nearly impossible to deeply, genuinely fall in love. This may sound sad. But on the flip side, I haven't had my heart broken for many years now. :)

[azazels_wolf]

Personally, whenever I have experienced True Love, the love which transcends the ego, I NEVER stop loving that person. There may be situations that could be described as "Life has temporarily separated us" or "We have decided to walk separate paths" but that doesn't mean I ever stop loving them. The intensity and immediacy of the love may fade, but once I've reached that level of True Love, it never results in a situation like "I don't love them anymore" or "I hate them now". No, that isn't true love.

If you look back on that relationship or that person you loved and say you don't love them anymore, then it was lust or attachment or codependency, not true love. It was something that was fulfilling and validating your ego, but no longer serves that function, so you no longer feel that so-called "love".

True Love is different. True love is limitless and infinite - it is not limited to one person, not limited to one set of characteristics, not limited to set stereotypical roles. True love transcends limitations, including time and place and the flaws inherent in being human.

This is the love that is experienced by our true Inner Consciousness.... or otherwise called the divine love that is inherent within our Divine Spark of Consciousness, if you like that frame.

If I reach a stage with someone that I consider to be "in perfect love and perfect trust" then we are interacting on a level that transcends human flaws, that forgives all mistakes. It moves us both in the direction of evolution and mutual benefit, without expectation. Joy/pleasure/warmth etc. is inevitably a part of that. It may not always be EASY but it's always mutually beneficial, and the loving connection will take on a power of its own.

Prophet, it sounds to me like LL hasn't experienced that, at least not from the typical relationship frame that she's using there.

Most of humanity hasn't, really. A lot of people identify so strongly with their egos and with their lust that they can't even understand or imagine what I'm talking about, and then they tell me it doesn't exist or that it's BS. It does exist, it is the truest reality. :)

This is what all people subconsciously desire and strive for. This is what the human drama and its difficult lessons revolve around.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this too.

[Insanity]

My friends have shown me the light. They go out with bland looking or just plain ugly girls that are either irritating, dumb or just un interesting that are basically conveiniently there in the their social circle. Why do they date these girs? because rather that than be single and in to the 'no one wants me head space' no to mention the complete lack of balls to go out and approach someone with sex appeal.

I'm very happy that I have these friends. And even happier that I found game.

I decided a bit a go I only want a relationship if its with someone that I'm really really head over heels for.

[RoyaltyInExile]

LL leaves out a lot of important things. What she says may sound good for a little while until you take the time to really think about what she's suggesting.

For the purpose of this post, I'm not going to be talking about people who are unhappy in their marriages and considering getting divorced. I'm going to address the "What if I'm happily married but someone even better comes along" scenario.

If a couple are happy in their marriage they're not going to be actively looking for a new spouse. They'll meet people of the opposite sex from time to time of course, but when they do they're not going to be flirting and dating and doing all the things that people generally do when they're trying to find out if someone they've met is the person they want to marry. They're just not going to have spent anywhere near enough quality time together to know if this new person is really a better person overall, not just better in a few traits.

I'll address this quote: "If someone came along that called me more, that was better looking, that sent me cute love letters, that had a bigger dick, that had more money... Would I drop my boyfriend and run into the arms of this new suppossed prince charming?

Would I be stupid if I didnt?"

No, you'd be stupid if you did. Of the amazing number of things you know about your husband, you're honestly gonna consider divorcing him for someone who possesses two traits which he did nothing to earn, to work for, to gain. He was lucky enough to be born that way. You're considering a couple of genetic flukes as well as the ability to write cute love letters and having more money as a reason to leave a man who if you're happily married to should possess attributes such as treating you warmly and compassionately, having a character of full of honesty, integrity, determination, ambition, and loyalty? You're thinking of leaving a guy who also possesses an impressive intellect, a charming personality, a good sense of personality? Oh,and what about your little daughter and the fact he's a great father to her? You're gonna leave a man who you have lived with happily for years in the hope that this genetically endowed indivdual will make a better companion for life? Based on what?

If you're already happily married, you haven't spent a lot, or any truly intimate time together and certainly nothing rivaling spending years living together, going to bed together every night, and waking up next to each other every morning!

Oh, and how will this affect your little daughter? I can just imagine: "Katie. dear, mommy has something to tell you. Come over here sweetie!"

"What Mommy"?

"I'm leaving your father. I'm not going to be around much anymore. Sorry kiddo."

"But, but you LOVE Daddy!!!

"Oh, of course I do honey, but I've found a man with an enormous weenie and he's rich too! And very handsome!"

"But you're married! That means you promised to stay with Daddy! And he's so nice! He's the best Daddy in the world!"

"He might very well be, but you don't get it, honey. This guy has a REALLY big weenie!!! And he looks just like Prince Charming, and he's rich!"

(Through tears) "Daddy works hard every day so we can have good food, and our house, and so I can have my toys! He's good to us and he always comes home every night and gives us a big hug and smiles when he sees us and he's taking us to Disney World this spring too! I love Daddy so much, and you said you did too! I can't believe you!

"I'm not going to argue about it you little brat! I have the chance for hot sex every night with a stud who's well hung! I can quit my job! Did I remind you how handsome he is? OF COURSE I'M LEAVING YOUR FATHER FOR HIM! WHAT DO YOU THINK I AM, STUPID!?!? YOU THINK DADDY IS SO GREAT, FINE, STAY WITH HIM! I'LL GRANT HIM TOTAL CUSTODY OF YOU!!! GOODBYE!!!

[thach1ef]

It's an interesting question/discussion. That's for sure.

The short and simple answer on my end would be that there is always going to be someone that looks "better". The grass is always greener.

If you were to up and leave a good relationship every time someone that looked better came along, then I really don't see any reason to ever commit to someone or get married.

[Peach]

there is one female in the world who transends all.

Her name is aishewarya rai.

Running game on that is impossible. Because she is the most beautiful woman in the world and probably she's been approached and opened half her life.

She was a virgin till she was thirty for religious reasons and now she is married to an ugly fuck but she has found true geniune love in it's purest form.

[Peach]

girls can be threatned by other beautiful girls.
I consider myself immune to that
Unless if your aishewarya rai

There must be a kind of sastisfaction though in being the world's most beautiful woman.
But because she is so beautiful I believe she is more interested in showing that she is genuine.

[delphim]

Loved your post Azazel's Wolf~ So true, so true.
There are a couple of men on this planet that will always be in my heart, that I will always think of from time to time, that I will always send blessings too, although we may be separated..very bitter sweet -

I think the problem that many of us find as women is that men so often, even when they are "content" and may have found their compatible partner, because of their biological programming will still screw things up because temptation can be a bit too strong sometimes - and men can become like a kid in a candy store now and again, it's like they will always have a weakness for new variation...new pussy etc. That is something that I think we have to learn to understand and even at times live with, accepting our man and this weakness...The question comes in with - does this new model, this new play toy / distraction have anything to do with the connection we have? or does it cross the line and desecrate it....I think this is the vital point. I am constantly battling with this idea in my life - there is so much we are indoctrinated with thru our family, our society, the media etc. and I am seeking to find what is truly correct - Who says that polygamy is wrong? I really don't know...but true love indeed transcends everything, although it may end up looking a bit out of the ordinary - but the fine line between unconditional and conditional.......hmmmmmm - I'm still working on this.

There is an wonderful Native American idea that I'd like to share - it's called Shadow Dancing - it is the belief that two people come together for a moment, a week or many lifetimes, dancing in the other person's shadow, turning on switches and things that were always there but in the off position or asleep in the other just waiting for the other to become the other polarity to the battery - and once this was done, they danced on - there was no piece of paper saying you were or you were not now married....the union was there or it was not, it was obvious, when it was over, it was over....

I have found with love, - it always feels like you are being presented with a book, like a flight manual or grimoire that you both set to studying and reading and page by page there is a labyrinth to experience, learn etc. and the task and invitation becomes that of staying open, raw and vulnerable no matter what and walking through it, moment by moment being present to both the good sensations and the "bad" - if so, both are transformed....not easy~

[Aries]

True love -A.Wolf.

I think far too many people think true love is an emotion. I don't think true love is an emotion, it has no opposite. Sure you can get angry at someone when you truly love them, but you still love them, even if you're no longer together and you're in love with someone else.

If you leave someone because they have a smaller penis, a flatter ass, smaller titties, or aren't as funny, then you never really loved them in the first place. It was all sexual, it was lust. You can certainly still have cared for that person, and most likely will, after having been that intimate with them, but you never really loved them.

In order to love someone, you must also be able to love yourself, because when love reaches it's deepest state, then you see your reflection in that other person. It's a feeling of oneness, but not wholeness. It's wholeness on a physical level yes, "my penis in your vagina makes me feel whole," but it's oneness on a spiritual level. As in, you don't see yourself as a separate being and just feel connected to them.

"I find this one interesting because it looks at things from a logical perspective rather than an emotional one." -Prophet

I don't think what she described was love. What she described was only tied into physical and emotional states (looks, size, wit, sense of humor). Those are all things that fade. They may come back in and out, but they do fade.

An emotional response from a good sense of humor, fades. Because it fades, you can easily see how you can forget about all that when someone "better" comes along.

We may still leave someone when we love them, but that doesn't mean you stop loving them. If you really loved that person, then "not loving" them, would be the equivalent to not loving yourself anymore, because you are one.

It may be overly philosophical or spiritual for some, but that's what I think love is. Ties into exactly what A.Wolf was talking about.

[-TruTh-]

Loved your post Azazel's Wolf~ So true, so true.
There are a couple of men on this planet that will always be in my heart, that I will always think of from time to time, that I will always send blessings too, although we may be separated..very bitter sweet -

I think the problem that many of us find as women is that men so often, even when they are "content" and may have found their compatible partner, because of their biological programming will still screw things up because temptation can be a bit too strong sometimes - and men can become like a kid in a candy store now and again, it's like they will always have a weakness for new variation...new pussy etc. That is something that I think we have to learn to understand and even at times live with, accepting our man and this weakness...The question comes in with - does this new model, this new play toy / distraction have anything to do with the connection we have? or does it cross the line and desecrate it....I think this is the vital point. I am constantly battling with this idea in my life - there is so much we are indoctrinated with thru our family, our society, the media etc. and I am seeking to find what is truly correct - Who says that polygamy is wrong? I really don't know...but true love indeed transcends everything, although it may end up looking a bit out of the ordinary - but the fine line between unconditional and conditional.......hmmmmmm - I'm still working on this.

There is an wonderful Native American idea that I'd like to share - it's called Shadow Dancing - it is the belief that two people come together for a moment, a week or many lifetimes, dancing in the other person's shadow, turning on switches and things that were always there but in the off position or asleep in the other just waiting for the other to become the other polarity to the battery - and once this was done, they danced on - there was no piece of paper saying you were or you were not now married....the union was there or it was not, it was obvious, when it was over, it was over....

I have found with love, - it always feels like you are being presented with a book, like a flight manual or grimoire that you both set to studying and reading and page by page there is a labyrinth to experience, learn etc. and the task and invitation becomes that of staying open, raw and vulnerable no matter what and walking through it, moment by moment being present to both the good sensations and the "bad" - if so, both are transformed....not easy~

Men and Woman both have problems with temptation... but I like your piece about Shadow Dancing... I am Native American.. so I enjoy learning. -- Truth

[azazels_wolf]

delphim:


The question comes in with - does this new model, this new play toy / distraction have anything to do with the connection we have? or does it cross the line and desecrate it....I think this is the vital point.


He's subconsciously seeking connection when he does any of that. Whether connection with another human being as a reflection of himself, or connection with the divine (or whatever you wish to call it) through orgasm. So somehow, it does have something to do with the connection you two have.... he wants to feel it more intensely and something is preventing him from doing so. That something is either his own inner issues, or something to do with how he's reacting to the interactions you have together, or lack thereof.



but true love indeed transcends everything, although it may end up looking a bit out of the ordinary - but the fine line between unconditional and conditional.......hmmmmmm - I'm still working on this.


Patience and communication are the bridge between unconditional and conditional. You need both.



There is an wonderful Native American idea that I'd like to share - it's called Shadow Dancing - it is the belief that two people come together for a moment, a week or many lifetimes, dancing in the other person's shadow, turning on switches and things that were always there but in the off position or asleep in the other just waiting for the other to become the other polarity to the battery - and once this was done, they danced on - there was no piece of paper saying you were or you were not now married....the union was there or it was not, it was obvious, when it was over, it was over....

I have found with love, - it always feels like you are being presented with a book, like a flight manual or grimoire that you both set to studying and reading and page by page there is a labyrinth to experience, learn etc. and the task and invitation becomes that of staying open, raw and vulnerable no matter what and walking through it, moment by moment being present to both the good sensations and the "bad" - if so, both are transformed....not easy~


That's beautiful delphim, thanks for sharing that. Very true, and I can see that it definitely connects with the tantric ideas and experience as well. The grimoire of the labyrinth is to be read in the heart and mind.... the alchemy of true union made through spirit and energy, not paper! Society's labels don't matter in that regard, at all.

[azazels_wolf]

MidnightAM:

I think far too many people think true love is an emotion. I don't think true love is an emotion, it has no opposite. Sure you can get angry at someone when you truly love them, but you still love them, even if you're no longer together and you're in love with someone else.


A wise man once told me the opposite of love is fear.... I've found that to be true, as odd as it may sound at first....

True love transcends all emotion, but it leaks into the emotional level, sometimes very strongly. It's felt as a very positive emotion when that happens.... but it's not dependent upon or founded solely on emotion. It's spiritual.



If you leave someone because they have a smaller penis, a flatter ass, smaller titties, or aren't as funny, then you never really loved them in the first place. It was all sexual, it was lust. You can certainly still have cared for that person, and most likely will, after having been that intimate with them, but you never really loved them.


Exactly. Love is not lust.



In order to love someone, you must also be able to love yourself, because when love reaches it's deepest state, then you see your reflection in that other person. It's a feeling of oneness, but not wholeness. It's wholeness on a physical level yes, "my penis in your vagina makes me feel whole," but it's oneness on a spiritual level. As in, you don't see yourself as a separate being and just feel connected to them.


Exactly.




"I find this one interesting because it looks at things from a logical perspective rather than an emotional one." -Prophet

I don't think what she described was love. What she described was only tied into physical and emotional states (looks, size, wit, sense of humor). Those are all things that fade. They may come back in and out, but they do fade.

An emotional response from a good sense of humor, fades. Because it fades, you can easily see how you can forget about all that when someone "better" comes along.

We may still leave someone when we love them, but that doesn't mean you stop loving them. If you really loved that person, then "not loving" them, would be the equivalent to not loving yourself anymore, because you are one.

It may be overly philosophical or spiritual for some, but that's what I think love is. Ties into exactly what A.Wolf was talking about.


Yup, physical and emotional states are transitory, constantly shifting and changing. True Love transcends the impermanence of emotional reaction or physical arousal.

[azazels_wolf]

but I like your piece about Shadow Dancing... I am Native American.. so I enjoy learning. -- Truth

TruTh, I did not know that! But it makes sense.... you've got something about you that echoes your ancestry (in a good way). :)

[Aries]

MidnightAM:
A wise man once told me the opposite of love is fear.... I've found that to be true, as odd as it may sound at first....


That actually makes a lot of sense when thinking about it. I need to remember that one, "the opposite of love is fear." I think I just had a moment :}

[-TruTh-]

TruTh, I did not know that! But it makes sense.... you've got something about you that echoes your ancestry (in a good way). :)

I don't look Native but on My Moms side about 3 generations they were 100% indian.

And if legal terms that actually means I am not white LOL. -- Truth

[delphim]

Azazel's Wolf said -
"Whether connection with another human being as a reflection of himself, or connection with the divine (or whatever you wish to call it) through orgasm."

This idea of the connection with the divine is something I have been looking into for so many years - and recently have been playing with it on a newer level. The idea that we are a microcosm of the macrocosm - the union of the the dualities / polarities etc. The union of the "King and Queen" if you will, depending on ones religious background or even one's scientific background of what creates creation etc. ('cos after all, doesn't matter exist because its atoms coming together in attraction and mating???!!! :) )
I have found that all anyone is ever looking for is the closest reflection to what is within them - their Anima or Animus (their inner opposite manifested in matter, the Godhead within them) and who so ever comes closest to being a TRUE representation of this "Queen" or "King" reflecting the divine is what a man or woman is seeking. This is not just about looks either....They are seeking to come Home. Union. Oneness.
Hollywood trys to do this with celebrities, showing illusions of this God and Goddess force, all wrapped up in shimmer and sparkle, but really - most of the time it is false....Often the women I come across in the clubs are what I call False Queens (for they are not tapped into the current and are just running their robotic programming) and many PUA's, while in the beginning may use their tactics to come across as a True King, because they really haven't done any real work, end up coming up as the illusion, or false as well....I have found it really so interesting that after I have done a shamanic work where I connect with the Queen as I call it, I will walk into a room and not only will men gravitate, but so will women, more so then when I have been away from this current for a while....I have also found that when I fancy a man, if I can tap into this energy first and then be open to receive this man, feel his energy - he will often come over and engage in conversation....I believe this is what we call here Inner Game. I think men could also use this technique but just turn it around a little bit....
Anyway, I mean no harm to any ones beliefs - I am sure with the right vocabulary it can also be explained within their spiritual frames...;)

[Argo navis]

Delphim - I couldn't agree more. On it all. Check a few things I posted about what I call the "mirror effect" because ultimately, I think the whole of reality is a game of mirrors - we seek to get back to oneness only to make it richer by what we learnt outside of it.

[delphim]

Yes!
What you say is so juicy....
I think this is one way that the universe expands itself~
I will look up the posts you suggested, thank you....

[Argo navis]

You are welcome : I also contacted you in privey because indeed, your views do echo mines - those of others here - and there is a lot to say and exchange about it.

I don't believe in sychronicities : we're not meeting out of randomness here... looking forward to seeing where that will lead.

[azazels_wolf]

I have found that all anyone is ever looking for is the closest reflection to what is within them - their Anima or Animus (their inner opposite manifested in matter, the Godhead within them) and who so ever comes closest to being a TRUE representation of this "Queen" or "King" reflecting the divine is what a man or woman is seeking. This is not just about looks either....They are seeking to come Home. Union. Oneness.



Exactly, that in my experience is what attraction and connection is ultimately about - finding your divine reflection in another human being.



I have found it really so interesting that after I have done a shamanic work where I connect with the Queen as I call it, I will walk into a room and not only will men gravitate, but so will women, more so then when I have been away from this current for a while.


Yes.... they subconsciously sense that divine presence/force/essence in you. It shines more brightly than anyone else in the room, so they can't help but be drawn to you and pay attention, since they are seeking to unite with it.



I have also found that when I fancy a man, if I can tap into this energy first and then be open to receive this man, feel his energy - he will often come over and engage in conversation....I believe this is what we call here Inner Game. I think men could also use this technique but just turn it around a little bit....


Yes, and/or SEND some energy over to him so he can feel it.... yeah? ;)
When you're feeling his, you're actually touching his with yours at the same time... so it's a mutual connection/exchange.

Nice frame delphim, it's very powerful and useful to those who wish to work with these ideas.



Argo:

Delphim - I couldn't agree more. On it all. Check a few things I posted about what I call the "mirror effect" because ultimately, I think the whole of reality is a game of mirrors - we seek to get back to oneness only to make it richer by what we learnt outside of it.


Even the creation of the universe itself was a mirror effect.... the original Divine Essence reflected between two mirrors, to create infinite reflections from different angles. This is the manifest world. Every person is a reflection from a unique angle... every piece of the manifest world is a fragment of the original "image".

Think about that... it will boggle your mind. :)

And yeah, you two seem to need to talk. *grin*
No, not random at all, at all. :D