My Idea of The Perfect Man

[Prophet]

Howdy everyone!

Here's another interesting article from my good friend LL (http://venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15552).

I liked this one because you can see how most of the things she considers important in a man (or at least the reasons that she considers them important) are the very things that we try to teach here at Venusian Arts.

Share your thoughts and enjoy!

----------------------

My Idea of The Perfect Man:

He doesn’t say things just to say them.
(this can be broken down into not being like all the guys that just talk a bunch of shit, but really can’t back it up. Chances are if you have to go on and on about what you have, or what your gonna get, or how your this or that, to inflate your ego… You ain’t shit, and you probably never will be)

He is stylish without being overly trendy.
(This means he can be stylish without being a trend jumper, he carries himself with class and always looks put together, even when he’s just rocking a white tee and jeans)

He listens.
(I don’t mean nodding your head when I speak with a glaze look in your eye. If Im expected to listen to you be excited about things I’m not completely interested in, I expect the same respect from you. If you don’t really care about how my day went or what my dreams are, stop fucking me!)

He’s Intelligent
(I’m not down with dating someone who’s only interest is reality television, music, and all things superficial. I’m hungry for knowledge so I want my man to be just as curious and bright as I consider myself to be. If we can’t talk about everything under the sun, and share thoughts and opinions and learn things from each other… Then I might as well just go buy a battery operated toy and date myself)

He’s Tall
(Yeah I want a man that can tower over me. It makes me feel protected.)

He’s Funny
(A sense of humor is a must. I want a man that can make me laugh, tease me, be sarcastic and spark a grin on my lips even when I’m feeling extra bitchy!)

He’s Dominant
(This is a must. I can not date a man that I can walk all over. I need someone who is going to put me in my place when I step out of line. I need a man, to be a man, plain and simple!)

He’s Affectionate
(I can handle it if you don’t want to make out with me in public, but I need a man who is going to curl up in bed with me, watch stupid television, kiss me at random moments, touch me just because he wants to be close to me!!)

He’s Tough
(I don’t want to date a guy I could beat up. If I can’t feel protected by you, then you aren’t a man in my eyes)

He’s Driven
(Im trying to be something in life. I’m working hard trying to get money in the bank, and a career under my belt so that I can support myself and maybe one day a family… For right now, I have pitbulls to feed. I don’t want a man that is going to be content working for a check and living day to day. I want someone who is going to be someone, because I plan to be!)

He’s a Good Driver
(This is a must. If a man can’t handle a car well, chances are he isn’t going to handle me well. So if you suck at driving… Pssshhhh. Im not even trying to go on a second date!!!)

He’s Not A Bible Thumper
(I’m an atheist so I need a man that is going to be okay with that, and also someone who isn’t going to shove the idea of god down my throat during breakfast, lunch and dinner. You got your faith? That’s cool but if your someone who bases their entire life on the good book and following all those rules… keep it moving!)

He likes animals
(If you don’t like my animals, I wont like you. Point Blank!)

He can work it out.
(ENOUGH SAID)

He’s TALL, DARK & HANDSOME.
(Hey, that’s my type! Sorry!)

He’s Proud & Secure
(If you’re a little whiney bitch I cant mess with you!! I want a man that is confident in himself, keeps his head up, you know?)

[Johnny Soporno]

And you haven't introduced us WHY?

:)


Johnny Soporno
"I may not be entirely perfect, but parts of me are extraordinary!"

[Dwight44]

I like to think of myself as the perfect man...

[Tay Tay]

I like to think of myself as the perfect man...

That is indeed the perfect man!
..I wish I could find him

[Dwight44]

That is indeed the perfect man!
..I wish I could find him

Thank you!!!!

[Tay Tay]

Thank you!!!!

You're welcome....

Why are you thanking me?

[Decibel]

Funny how 'mind-blowing sex' isn't on the list, or in fact anything to do with sex. This is actually a BFF list.
I bet if not for social conditioning, great sex would be in the top 3 of most women's lists.

[Tay Tay]

Funny how 'mind-blowing sex' isn't on the list, or in fact anything to do with sex. This is actually a BFF list.
I bet if not for social conditioning, great sex would be in the top 3 of most women's lists.

That's what "He can work it out" means

He can work it out = He's great in the sack

[Dwight44]

Funny how 'mind-blowing sex' isn't on the list, or in fact anything to do with sex. This is actually a BFF list.
I bet if not for social conditioning, great sex would be in the top 3 of most women's lists.

Remember, its just one girls "statements" and the fact that what a girl says and what are girl actually wants are two different things...

[Decibel]

Thanks for the clarification. But still, it should be up there on the list, in bold font, and unmistakable!! Women love to fuck. No shame at all in that.

[Dwight44]

Thanks for the clarification. But still, it should be up there on the list, in bold font, and unmistakable!! Women love to fuck. No shame at all in that.

Women love sex?

Then how come they keep denying me? :mad:

Haha jk, no crap they do!!

[Tay Tay]

Thanks for the clarification. But still, it should be up there on the list, in bold font, and unmistakable!! Women love to fuck. No shame at all in that.

True the reason why it's not bolded is because it's not always number one on a woman's list it's important yes but there are other qualities that are more important

[Dwight44]

True the reason why it's not bolded is because it's not always number one on a woman's list it's important yes but there are other qualities that are more important

Says who?

Women's top two priorities are to survive and replicate

[Tay Tay]

Says who?

Women's top two priorities are to survive and replicate

Uhh, Please don't start that again

[Decibel]

The mistake women make is to understate the importance of sex to them, because they want to be perceived as good little girls and not sluts. And you can't blame them for giving into social pressure.
Taytay I think you'll find sex will be way up there on the list once you become experienced. Having a guy in your life who meets all the above criteria is an awesome find, but in addition having a guy who also gives you screaming orgasms is a whole nother level of relationship.

[Tay Tay]

The mistake women make is to understate the importance of sex to them, because they want to be perceived as good little girls and not sluts. And you can't blame them for giving into social pressure.
Taytay I think you'll find sex will be way up there on the list once you become experienced. Having a guy in your life who meets all the above criteria is an awesome find, but in addition having a guy who also gives you screaming orgasms is a whole nother level of relationship.

I'm not a slut but I'm not a good girl either:p

I understand that but it still will never be #1 or #2 on my list

[Decibel]

We shall see. I can tell you're gonna like it a whole lot. So maybe #3.

[Tay Tay]

We shall see. I can tell you're gonna like it a whole lot. So maybe #3.

LMAO! What makes you say that?

[thach1ef]

If a women tells you sex is in their top 3 things they look for in a man, they're just a slam pig.

Let's not kid ourselves. Everyone likes sex. Why? Because it's sex. It feels good. That's the whole point.

Yes women like sex more than some men like to think they do. But women who are looking for a relationship don't rank sex in their top 5 things they are looking for in a man.

Women who are looking to get some for a night do.

[asab204]

prophet--why haven't I been introduced to LL? I mean she and I both want the same qualities in a man or atleast similar qualities. wecould kick it and talk about boys and such....

as for the sex thing yeah well duh thats as to be expected if he ain't good in the sack then what are the other problems you have in your life besides sucking at sex...you are obviously NOT the man for me, even if you do have a majority of these qualities sex must be good or else byebye.

tay- you will love it its great.

[Dwight44]

I just came up with a great opener:

"Hey guys, quick question, do girls enjoy sex?"

Thanks!

[Tay Tay]

If a women tells you sex is in their top 3 things they look for in a man, they're just a slam pig.

Let's not kid ourselves. Everyone likes sex. Why? Because it's sex. It feels good. That's the whole point.

Yes women like sex more than some men like to think they do. But women who are looking for a relationship don't rank sex in their top 5 things they are looking for in a man.

Women who are looking to get some for a night do.

Three things
1. Is this directed at me?
2. Are you calling me a slam pig?
3.What the hell is a slam pig?

[Dwight44]

Three things
1. Is this directed at me?
2. Are you calling me a slam pig?
3.What the hell is a slam pig?

hahahaha this is too funny

[thach1ef]

as for the sex thing yeah well duh thats as to be expected if he ain't good in the sack then what are the other problems you have in your life besides sucking at sex...you are obviously NOT the man for me, even if you do have a majority of these qualities sex must be good or else byebye.


See I find this to be a problem. So if a guy isn't a stud in the bedroom but has a bunch of other highly sought after qualities that you are looking for, you're going to get rid of him?

People aren't born good at sex. You can be taught to be good at sex. You can't be taught to be tall, you can't be taught to be a "good person", you can't be taught to be smart. But guess what, you can teach someone how to be good at sex.

My past 2 girlfriends were not very good in the bedroom even though they had each had a decent number of partners in their life.

However with communication and experimenting, in the end they were both amazing.

I think your 'be good in the sack or get lost' attitude is pretty poor.

[asab204]

reply to dwight: yes

tay no he's not talking about you and a slam pig is a insult....sorta like slut

hey guys quick question: who finds negs funny?

[thach1ef]

Three things
1. Is this directed at me?
2. Are you calling me a slam pig?
3.What the hell is a slam pig?

Hahaha,

1. No it's not directed at anyone.
2. No I'm not calling you a slam pig. I don't know you.
3. A slam pig is a slut/whore etc. A girl who guys treat as a pig. They have sex with her, and pass her to the next guy. A girl that most people here are looking for hahahaha

[asab204]

well thach1ef you are in the womens perspective section of this forum what did you expect a mans point of view? Also you CAN teach a person to be "good person", and to be smart, and to be good at sex, and to think big not tall but really that's not the main quality to look for in a person.

I mean maybe you can't teach any of those but I can:D :cool:

[Dwight44]

haha slampig, thats a funny name I'm going to use it more often! :D

[thach1ef]

well thach1ef you are in the womens perspective section of this forum what did you expect a mans point of view? Also you CAN teach a person to be "good person", and to be smart, and to be good at sex, and to think big not tall but really that's not the main quality to look for in a person.

I mean maybe you can't teach any of those but I can:D :cool:

That's my point. I'm in a women's perspective forum, I expected differently out of you as a woman haha.

I have to disagree on teaching someone to be a good person. And I think most people will agree with me on that one. Unless we're talking about children here, which I hope we aren't since we're talking about having sex with them.

People at this point in life are either good or bad. There's a reason why criminals repeat themselves. There's a reason why people who are unfaithful repeat themselves. Just like there's a reason why people do good things in repetition. It's just who you are.

Same with being smart or not. I'm sorry, but education can only teach you so much. People are either dumb or not dumb. Within the "not dumb" category you have people who apply themselves and people who don't. But these are all still smart people.

People who are just plain stupid though? You can't teach them to be smart.

[thach1ef]

well thach1ef you are in the womens perspective section of this forum what did you expect a mans point of view? Also you CAN teach a person to be "good person", and to be smart, and to be good at sex, and to think big not tall but really that's not the main quality to look for in a person.

I mean maybe you can't teach any of those but I can:D :cool:

Also, then I have to ask. Are you saying you're unable to teach a man how to be good in bed, is that why you would be so quick to get rid of them?

If so, what's that say about your bedroom skills?

[asab204]

Also, then I have to ask. Are you saying you're unable to teach a man how to be good in bed, is that why you would be so quick to get rid of them?

If so, what's that say about your bedroom skills?

no not unable to but really with all othe other qualities aside if you aren't good in bed why should I have to teach you what I have already learned if your say atleast 10 years older than me. I am all about exploring my sexual abilities and wants but what does anything like that have to do with my sexual skills? I can only do so much before it gets to the point that it's the man that is not good at sex. I am a very well rounded sexual person, why should I have to teach them how to be good in bed if yuy can't make me orgasm then what's the point it doesn't feel good to me but feels good to you? ever see waiting ot exhale? there is a scene in there that is just what I am talking about. you get off while I wish you were getting off from being on top of me? no thank you. good bye. I can hand-le myself thanks. I can find a man that has ALL of the qualities I look for in a man including being great at sex.

[thach1ef]

no not unable to but really with all othe other qualities aside if you aren't good in bed why should I have to teach you what I have already learned if your say atleast 10 years older than me. I am all about exploring my sexual abilities and wants but what does anything like that have to do with my sexual skills? I can only do so much before it gets to the point that it's the man that is not good at sex. I am a very well rounded sexual person, why should I have to teach them how to be good in bed if yuy can't make me orgasm then what's the point it doesn't feel good to me but feels good to you? ever see waiting ot exhale? there is a scene in there that is just what I am talking about. you get off while I wish you were getting off from being on top of me? no thank you. good bye. I can hand-le myself thanks. I can find a man that has ALL of the qualities I look for in a man including being great at sex.

This makes no sense at all.

You ask why teach him, but then talk about him not making you orgasm. Uhhh...

You should teach him what you like in the bedroom BECAUSE he's not satisfying you. Isn't that kinda common sense?

Communication in the bedroom shouldn't be frowned upon. It should be something that you strive for.

You saying that you'd pass up on a handful of other very important qualities for a man who's good in bed doesn't make you look very good.

[RoyaltyInExile]

If a women tells you sex is in their top 3 things they look for in a man, they're just a slam pig.

Let's not kid ourselves. Everyone likes sex. Why? Because it's sex. It feels good. That's the whole point.

Yes women like sex more than some men like to think they do. But women who are looking for a relationship don't rank sex in their top 5 things they are looking for in a man.

Women who are looking to get some for a night do.

Best post so far in this thread.

[RoyaltyInExile]

no not unable to but really with all othe other qualities aside if you aren't good in bed why should I have to teach you what I have already learned if your say atleast 10 years older than me. I am all about exploring my sexual abilities and wants but what does anything like that have to do with my sexual skills? I can only do so much before it gets to the point that it's the man that is not good at sex. I am a very well rounded sexual person, why should I have to teach them how to be good in bed if yuy can't make me orgasm then what's the point it doesn't feel good to me but feels good to you? ever see waiting ot exhale? there is a scene in there that is just what I am talking about. you get off while I wish you were getting off from being on top of me? no thank you. good bye. I can hand-le myself thanks. I can find a man that has ALL of the qualities I look for in a man including being great at sex.

Why should you have to? You make it sound like a chore when it's something that should be fun.

What does it say about your sexual skills? It says that you either find it extremely difficult or extremely uncomfortable to teach a man what you like him to do in bed. You have to remember that women have very different tastes in what they like in bed. It can range from a woman enjoying receiving oral sex more than she likes intercourse to women who absolutely dislike receiving any oral sex.

Then it gets more refined from there. Two women may both enjoy oral sex a lot but enjoy it performed in very different ways.

There are SO many variables. What one women may enjoy intensely, another woman may not enjoy at all. So it is in your best interest as a woman to both know what you like and to enjoy showing a man how to do what you like.

If this guy turns out to be THE ONE for you, then consider that you might be spending the next 50 years with him. If you're going to be spending the next 50 years with the same man, or however long you both live, it just doesn't make sense to take the attitude: Why should I have to teach you what I like?

[thach1ef]

Why should you have to? You make it sound like a chore when it's something that should be fun.

What does it say about your sexual skills? It says that you either find it extremely difficult or extremely uncomfortable to teach a man what you like him to do in bed. You have to remember that women have very different tastes in what they like in bed. It can range from a woman enjoying receiving oral sex more than she likes intercourse to women who absolutely dislike receiving any oral sex.

Then it gets more refined from there. Two women may both enjoy oral sex a lot but enjoy it performed in very different ways.

There are SO many variables. What one women may enjoy intensely, another woman may not enjoy at all. So it is in your best interest as a woman to both know what you like and to enjoy showing a man how to do what you like.

If this guy turns out to be THE ONE for you, then consider that you might be spending the next 50 years with him. If you're going to be spending the next 50 years with the same man, or however long you both live, it just doesn't make sense to take the attitude: Why should I have to teach you what I like?

Well said. I think you and I are on the same exact page with this one.

Above I mentioned that I had a couple girlfriends who were inexperienced and worked with them. It was FUN. Once they got used to the fact that I'm not like most guys and actually enjoy learning about what they like and teaching them what I like, it was a great time.

[Tay Tay]

.....Sex sounds so complicated

[thach1ef]

Are you a virgin?

It really isn't though. It's just like anything else. You may like pancakes and I don't. But once you learn that I don't like pancakes, you won't offer them to me anymore.

The sooner you learn about the other person. The better off you are.

[Tay Tay]

Are you a virgin?

It really isn't though. It's just like anything else. You may like pancakes and I don't. But once you learn that I don't like pancakes, you won't offer them to me anymore.

The sooner you learn about the other person. The better off you are.
Yes


LMAO
I love the comparison:D

[thach1ef]

Haha well I'm kinda hungry right now and pancakes sounded good so it was on my brain already haha

[Decibel]

I do agree with much of what thach1ef is saying, in that women should not assume men will always know how to make a woman satisfied, and his ego may prevent him from exploring it. Plus most guys don't realize how complicated the female anatomy is, or that a woman can have more than just intercourse vaginal orgasms.

But, calling a girl a slut/whore/jizz jar because she rates sex as a high priority is the primary reason why men aren't getting laid. And so here we are on a PUA site.

How?

Women who like sex are called sluts >>>
Women start acting like they don't like sex, though they like it more than men >>>
Women don't put out even when they want it >>>
Men get frustrated, don't get laid, resent women >>>
A PUA website is born.

So I guess thanks are in order.

[Tay Tay]

Words/ Phases I learned today:

1."Slam Pig"
2. "You might like pancakes and I don't. But once you learn I don't like pancakes, you won't offer them to me anymore" (refering to different types of sex)
3. "Jizz Jar"
4. "BSA Bull Shit Artist"
:D

[azazels_wolf]

Regarding LL's list:

What some of you guys are not realizing here is that you are creating a false duality between sexuality and the qualities that LL lists.

In order to give both yourself and your partner the most insanely ecstatic sexual experiences, YOU MUST HAVE AND DEMONSTRATE MANY OF THESE QUALITIES.

You must be able to listen and pay attention to her needs. You must not be self-centered and egotistical. You must be able to display affection and be gentle and loving when called for. You must be able to use your words effectively. You must be able to lead when she wants you to.

delphim, if you're watching this - since you're a tantrika, you know EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Would you like to jump into this discussion?

[Tay Tay]

Regarding LL's list:

What some of you guys are not realizing here is that you are creating a false duality between sexuality and the qualities that LL lists.

In order to give both yourself and your partner the most insanely ecstatic sexual experiences, YOU MUST HAVE AND DEMONSTRATE MANY OF THESE QUALITIES.

You must be able to listen and pay attention to her needs. You must not be self-centered and egotistical. You must be able to display affection and be gentle and loving when called for. You must be able to use your words effectively. You must be able to lead when she wants you to.

delphim, if you're watching this - since you're a tantrika, you know EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Would you like to jump into this discussion?

What's a tantrika?

[azazels_wolf]

A practitioner of tantric sex.

[Tay Tay]

A practitioner of tantric sex.

Oh ok thanks:)

(Doesn't know what that is)

[azazels_wolf]

It is a spiritual and meditative sort of lovemaking that results in ecstatic full-body orgasm... for as many hours as you want to experience it!

It works that way because it channels the sexual energy into higher centers, rather than expending it through a quick genital orgasm. Eventually, it results in enlightened consciousness and pure bliss. It far exceeds any other sexual experience. It is enlightened sex......soul sex, basically.

[Tay Tay]

It is a spiritual and meditative sort of lovemaking that results in ecstatic full-body orgasm... for as many hours as you want to experience it!

It works that way because it channels the sexual energy into higher centers, rather than expending it through a quick genital orgasm. Eventually, it results in enlightened consciousness and pure bliss. It far exceeds any other sexual experience. It is enlightened sex......soul sex, basically.

Wow that sounds intense...I'm curious now

[azazels_wolf]

Very intense, very worthwhile looking into. Once you experience it, there's nothing else like it.

As delphim said.... "anything less is like chewing on cardboard"

[thach1ef]

I do agree with much of what thach1ef is saying, in that women should not assume men will always know how to make a woman satisfied, and his ego may prevent him from exploring it. Plus most guys don't realize how complicated the female anatomy is, or that a woman can have more than just intercourse vaginal orgasms.

But, calling a girl a slut/whore/jizz jar because she rates sex as a high priority is the primary reason why men aren't getting laid. And so here we are on a PUA site.

How?

Women who like sex are called sluts >>>
Women start acting like they don't like sex, though they like it more than men >>>
Women don't put out even when they want it >>>
Men get frustrated, don't get laid, resent women >>>
A PUA website is born.

So I guess thanks are in order.

I'm new to the site and I will admit I don't agree with 100% of what is taught here.

My personal belief is that both women and men can be sluts. The difference is that most guys are here because they WANT to be a male slut. They think it makes them a playa and cool. Society doesn't look down on men like they do women in this aspect

I don't think men aren't getting laid because some women are being called sluts. I think men aren't getting laid because they have no clue how to approach women. They get frustrated because it's harder for men than it is women.

Also, women who like sex aren't sluts. It's women who are easy and sleep around that are sluts. I don't think either men or women should rate bedroom skills as a high priority in what they look for in a mate. I think that's a horrible way to go about life.

It's strange. A lot of what is taught here about self confidence and being "cool" when it comes to girls and playful and funny. I think that's all spot on. But I also think that within that, men are being taught how to be players and treat women as objects... wow I sound like Dr Phil eh?

It's so complex and I could go on forever, shit, I could write my own book on my beliefs about all this stuff.

But the moral of my book would be this.

Women, whether they like it or not, control sex in our society. It's just the way it is. Until we change that, it's going to stay that way.

A half decent woman can walk into a bar, raise their hand and say "I want to have sex tonight, who wants me?" and have a line of guys waiting.

A half decent guy does that and he'll have none.

When women start giving it away easily, it disrupts the balance in society that has been created.

I kept typing and then realized it was going on forever hahah so I deleted it. Like I said, I could go on and on forever about this stuff.

That's the main reason I'm here in fact. I'm very intrigued by all of this.

[asab204]

not saying I was interested in not teaching men to pleasure me but to go through the motions on how to have sex. thats what I meant sorry for not putting it into terms you boys could understand. the best part of the first time with that person is finding out what we like and don't like.

as per always decibal is right on spot with what he said.

and yes tay sex can be complicated especially if you are dropped mid way through...yeah it hurt a lot. but hey thats just part of the experience is going through some crazy sexual situations....

[Drknz]

asab, you seem like the type of woman i'd meet in real life and be like, "Oh I bet you ain't shit in the bedroom!" and be kinda cocky.

I would then roll my eyes at you and tell you your full of shit..
pull your hair, spank you and tease you a bit..
then you would go off at me and call me a fuckin prick.

I would walk away back to my car..
you would probally follow me whilst throwing your high heels at me and cursing me off.

And then I'd grab you and throw you against the car in an aggressive fashion
and heavy makeout!
this would in turn shut you up!
and we would go home and have angry makeup sex!

All in all a good friday night, don't ya think?

[asab204]

funny but no I wouldn't enjoy that....I don't throw heels at people...haha..your not my type, in control is one thing but throwing me against a car? hmmm anger issues maybe? I like gentle giants ya know someone that when he needs to be a hard ass can be but for the most part is gentle with me. although if it came down to have hot hard sex then yeah I'd be all about it.

[RoyaltyInExile]

not saying I was interested in not teaching men to pleasure me but to go through the motions on how to have sex. thats what I meant sorry for not putting it into terms you boys could understand.

I don't see how that makes anything easier to understand. The syntax and double negatives make it hard to understand. I did understand your earlier post that I replied to; I was just saying I have a different opinion on the matter. That's no reason to be condescending to us. One of the keys to making this new section of the forum work is for both genders to show respect to each other.

In one of your earlier posts you even said that can teach a man to be good at sex. If that's true, and you found a man with all the other good qualities you're looking for, why wouldn't it be worth it to you to show him to do what you like? If I found a woman who had every quality I was looking for in a woman but she wasn't very experienced at sex, I sure wouldn't get rid of her. She could be even be a virgin and have no experience with sex and I wouldn't get rid of her. I'd enjoy teaching her and I'd be glad that she was selective about who she had sex with. If you were in that same situation with a guy though, you'd just get rid of him?

[DaveyFresh"]

Wow that sounds intense...I'm curious now

Of course Tantric sex is crazy it controls your orgasm and spreads it throughout the entire body making you feel pleasure for hours and it also allows the stacking for a mega orgasm. -- Truth

[Drknz]

funny but no I wouldn't enjoy that....I don't throw heels at people...haha..your not my type, in control is one thing but throwing me against a car? hmmm anger issues maybe? I like gentle giants ya know someone that when he needs to be a hard ass can be but for the most part is gentle with me. although if it came down to have hot hard sex then yeah I'd be all about it.

LOL that's okay your not my type either as I stated before :)
and yeah I am pretty gentle with women asab I think it was just
the heat of the moment thing with you throwing shoes at me! :P

But hey if your still down for coffee and some hard sex let me know! :P
however I'd prob love ya n leave ya as us Irish say.. :)

Did I just bring this forum down to a whole new level of online forum pickup :( LOL

[azazels_wolf]

Drknz:

It's quite obvious that you haven't read the Posting Guidelines in the "About this Section" post that is stickied in the Women's section. Please take the time to immediately do so, and apply them. Thank you.

[Drknz]

Did I break some rule! :S

hehe i'm known for that Wolf! :P
But in all seriousness.. didn't mean any harm, just in a good mood at work today I guess!
warming up for tonight! :)

And I hope asab didn't feel "sexually harrased" according to your rules..

Thanks you

[azazels_wolf]

TruTh, yes - the pleasure and satisfaction are unparalleled, and it transcends all the limitations that are normally encountered with or applied to sexuality, since it is actually ENERGY-based.

Ladies, if your man isn't quite doing it for you, sexually..... learn this and teach him. It will change everything.

[Russianstar]

i'm not tall attall and I don't have problems getting women.. I think these are too generalized.. i also think that one can compensate for another.. I'm not talll but I am really funny.. not like a clown but humorous.. <--- LOOK. IM QUALIFYING MYSELF!!!.

Ok.. anyways. do you think one can compensate for another?

[Decibel]

Wow that sounds intense...I'm curious now

Tay tay, remind me why you're a virgin. I'm sure it's voluntary, but I'm curious why you would not give yourself one of life's greatest gifts? I worry the more time you wait, the harder you'll kick yourself for not doing it sooner.

thach1ef: I like your posts. You've put thought into your position, but I just don't agree with your conclusions. May I recommend you watch Johnny Soporno's vids. He talks about sluts, whores and polygamy. You may not agree with him, but you may get a better idea where many in the community are coming from.

[asab204]

not being condescending by any means just saying you guys truely did not understand what I was saying, learning what different pleasures each of us enjoys is great but no I wouldn't take a virgin to bed with me why? he's not a man in my eyes, he just a boy who is unknown in the art of seduction. Sorry if that offends anyone but really why should I want to teach them how to have sex? I still don't understand. If he had ALL of the qualities with the exception of not being good in bed like I stated before I could only teach so much and then he would have to take the lead....if he could, if not then bye.

it seems simple to me but that's just because it's my brain thinking this.

let's say perfect man with the exception to the fact that he is bad in bed,
ok I say I like this, this that, and this and then I will orgasm...if he can't get through that teaching/learning session and give me orgasm than try another way and if that still doesn't work try until all skills are gone through and if I STILL didn't orgasm then good bye.

does that help clear up what I was saying?

[Argo navis]

:) Well, I am *that much* of a male whore, but lemme tell you that educating the young is as good in bed as learning from the experienced ones. Had women ten years older than me, and ten years younger than me - the mature ones have all the openness that age gives, but the young ones more than make up through dedication and... energy. Yummy.

[Prophet]

In my experience, what you guys THOUGHT asab was talking about isn't actually that uncommon.

As women become more sexually experienced, many of them simply don't want to devote the time and energy to "train" a man on how to pleasure her. Especially when there might be someone else in her life who may already know just how to...push her buttons, so to speak. It's not really that surprising when you really think about it, either. I mean how many times can you tell a guy "I like this, this that, and this and then I will orgasm" before you start getting tired of it?

I'm not saying all women are like this, and there are definitely plenty of women out there who love the idea of "breaking in the new guy". But there ARE plenty of women that EXPECT a man to at least have a general idea of what their doing. And really, as PUAs, shouldn't we be making sure we already know how to pleasure our partners without her having to explain it to us? We're supposed to be artists, masters of seduction...it would be pretty ridiculous if, after all the dancing around the courtship process, we couldn't even "work it out", don't you think?

[thach1ef]

the best part of the first time with that person is finding out what we like and don't like.

asab, i find this interesting.

So you're telling me the first time you have sex with a guy you are able to talk openly and freely about what you like and don't like. The first time you have sex with a guy is when you do all your experimenting etc?

I find it very hard to believe. No matter what sexual level you are on.

[thach1ef]

In my experience, what you guys THOUGHT asab was talking about isn't actually that uncommon.

As women become more sexually experienced, many of them simply don't want to devote the time and energy to "train" a man on how to pleasure her. Especially when there might be someone else in her life who may already know just how to...push her buttons, so to speak. It's not really that surprising when you really think about it, either. I mean how many times can you tell a guy "I like this, this that, and this and then I will orgasm" before you start getting tired of it?

I'm not saying all women are like this, and there are definitely plenty of women out there who love the idea of "breaking in the new guy". But there ARE plenty of women that EXPECT a man to at least have a general idea of what their doing. And really, as PUAs, shouldn't we be making sure we already know how to pleasure our partners without her having to explain it to us? We're supposed to be artists, masters of seduction...it would be pretty ridiculous if, after all the dancing around the courtship process, we couldn't even "work it out", don't you think?

I have to disagree Prophet.

Sex is no different than anything else in our life. People like different things.

Let me give you an analogy.

Kobe Bryant is a great basketball player correct? I'd want him on my team.

What asab is saying is that if she was the coach of the Chicago Bulls, she wouldn't take him on her team. She instead would say

"Kobe is a great player and all, he has almost all the qualities I'm looking for in a person, however he doesn't know our playbook. So I think I'll pass"

[RoyaltyInExile]

not being condescending by any means just saying you guys truely did not understand what I was saying, learning what different pleasures each of us enjoys is great but no I wouldn't take a virgin to bed with me why? he's not a man in my eyes, he just a boy who is unknown in the art of seduction. Sorry if that offends anyone but really why should I want to teach them how to have sex? I still don't understand. If he had ALL of the qualities with the exception of not being good in bed like I stated before I could only teach so much and then he would have to take the lead....if he could, if not then bye.

it seems simple to me but that's just because it's my brain thinking this.

let's say perfect man with the exception to the fact that he is bad in bed,
ok I say I like this, this that, and this and then I will orgasm...if he can't get through that teaching/learning session and give me orgasm than try another way and if that still doesn't work try until all skills are gone through and if I STILL didn't orgasm then good bye.

does that help clear up what I was saying?

Yes, It does clear up what you're saying and realistically in this day and age your chances of finding a virgin are low anyway. There are some out there though like Tay Tay and I would never say she isn't a woman because she is a virgin. There was a time when people waited for marriage to have sex. It gave them something to look forward to and I don't think that was a bad tradition. They didn't have all the problems with all these sexually transmitted diseases that have come into existence since then, so that's another advantage to wait for sex.

I have had sex with only women that meant a lot to me. The number of women I have slept with is probably lower than average, although it's hard to know because guys exaggerate. I can honestly say I've never had a one night stand though - it was always in the context of a long term relationship.

So yes, I understand you, but I have a very different attitude toward sex than you do. I would take a girl to bed with me who is a virgin. I would gladly teach her how to have sex. I would be patient if she is lousy at sex at first if she has other, more important qualities that I'm looking for in a woman - things that can't be taught. I wouldn't consider her to not be a woman because she hasn't had sex before. I don't have any preference over whether I end up marrying a virgin or a girl who has had sex with a few men, as long as she is very selective about who she sleeps with.

Regarding the list that Prophet' friend LL wrote, I agree that some of the qualities she finds necessary in a man are reasonable. I only disagree with her about qualities she said she values highly are ones that nobody ever had to earn or work to develop. Height is a good example. That isn't something a guy earns or gets because he works towards it; it's just something he happens to have by chance. How can that be so important to a person? Being tall doesn't show any virtues such as having good ethics, having the self discipline to develop a talent or skill, or anything else - it's something he got lucky with but it doesn't reflect on the type of man he is at all.

Important qualities to me are ones that a woman acquires by choice such as being compassionate, being a warm person, treating me well, being honest, having ambition, having integrity, and having a well developed intellect.

[RoyaltyInExile]

In my experience, what you guys THOUGHT asab was talking about isn't actually that uncommon.

As women become more sexually experienced, many of them simply don't want to devote the time and energy to "train" a man on how to pleasure her. Especially when there might be someone else in her life who may already know just how to...push her buttons, so to speak. It's not really that surprising when you really think about it, either. I mean how many times can you tell a guy "I like this, this that, and this and then I will orgasm" before you start getting tired of it?

I'm not saying all women are like this, and there are definitely plenty of women out there who love the idea of "breaking in the new guy". But there ARE plenty of women that EXPECT a man to at least have a general idea of what their doing. And really, as PUAs, shouldn't we be making sure we already know how to pleasure our partners without her having to explain it to us? We're supposed to be artists, masters of seduction...it would be pretty ridiculous if, after all the dancing around the courtship process, we couldn't even "work it out", don't you think?

I've noticed a very definite pattern in your posts, Prophet. I didn't comment aty first because I wanted to see if the pattern persisted.

Has anyone noticed that when there is an argument, even a polite debate between a man and a woman on this forum, Prophet ALWAYS sides with the woman?

Prophet, in debates between a men and women on this forum, can you show me even a couple examples where you've sided with the man's opinion or shared his point of view more closely than the woman's point of view? When you consider the number of men on this forum and the number of women, the odds against the women always being right according to one guy's opinion are astronomical! Are you honestly being objective, or perhaps are your intents, perhaps something other than simply being objective? We've got an awful lot of intelligent guys here, some of which are also good people. I find it hard to believe that in a purely objective look at all types of disputes between men and women here on this forum, that any man would always side with the women's points of view, the orders of their priorities, and always find more in common with their value systems than those of any of the men here.

[Decibel]

I'll let Prophet reply to his siding with girls, but I will throw my hat in here agreeing with him.
Being able to attract girls and get them comfortable with you, and then not knowing how to calibrate sexually with them, is poor game. You MUST make it clear to women that you are preselected, and know your way around a woman's body. It's simply not an option. Women have way to many options to waste time with sexually frustrated, inexperienced or intolerant men.
My guide did not have a chapter on sex, and now I am compiling one. It'll have the input of guys I respect like Cathal, as well as authors like Lou Paget and David Shade. I always assumed guys knew what to do in bed. Obviously not. Some need advice on the matter. Or I should say, some NEED advice on the matter.

[thach1ef]

I'll let Prophet reply to his siding with girls, but I will throw my hat in here agreeing with him.
Being able to attract girls and get them comfortable with you, and then not knowing how to calibrate sexually with them, is poor game. You MUST make it clear to women that you are preselected, and know your way around a woman's body. It's simply not an option. Women have way to many options to waste time with sexually frustrated, inexperienced or intolerant men.
My guide did not have a chapter on sex, and now I am compiling one. It'll have the input of guys I respect like Cathal, as well as authors like Lou Paget and David Shade. I always assumed guys knew what to do in bed. Obviously not. Some need advice on the matter. Or I should say, some NEED advice on the matter.

I feel like this convo is getting off track. We're not really talking about the same thing anymore.

It went from me questioning why you would get rid of someone who has 9 out of 10 qualities you are looking for in a man, based solely on his lack of being a porn star in the bedroom.

Now it's turned into sexually frustrated, intolerant men.

[RoyaltyInExile]

I feel like this convo is getting off track. We're not really talking about the same thing anymore.

It went from me questioning why you would get rid of someone who has 9 out of 10 qualities you are looking for in a man, based solely on his lack of being a porn star in the bedroom.

Now it's turned into sexually frustrated, intolerant men.

Right, the original topic wasn't sexually frustrated men, or men who are unable to learn to do what a women want them to do. The original topic was why you'd get rid of a man who didn't already know how to please you, even if ha already has the other important qualities you're looking for. I still don't see why anyone wouldn't think it's fun to spend time with someone they love, showing them the things they like in bed.

We're not talking about someone who is unteachable. We;re talking about someone who is willing and able to learn what you like if you show us what things you want us to do. We could simply do the things that satisfied the last girlfriend we had, but suppose you and she have very different tastes?

[thach1ef]

And as a general statement to anyone arguing the other side. If you honestly think you know what every single women in this world wants before you hook up with them. You're kidding yourself.

I've had 6 relationships that have gone longer than a year. In each one of those cases, we got to a point where we were very open sexually and communicated freely. Each one of those girls liked different things. I'm sure if it got to the same point with the other girls I dated, it would be the same thing.

It's not very hard to understand. So I will say it again. People like different things.

Dismissing a potential girlfriend/boyfriend that meets most of your qualities you are looking for in a person because they didn't read your mind and figure out you get off on some weird shit is pretty weak.

[Decibel]

I feel like this convo is getting off track. We're not really talking about the same thing anymore.

Now it's turned into sexually frustrated, intolerant men.

I mentioned intolerant men because

If a women tells you sex is in their top 3 things they look for in a man, they're just a slam pig.

is an incredibly intolerant comment. This isn't off track, because it was you who introduced the notion of judging a girl's sexuality.

But I understand and in part agree with your underlying message that it's unfair to throw away someone because they need instruction on what you want.
But there are many layers to this, the least offensive to women being you can't read her mind. The larger offenses are being primarily self-gratifying (see my post on 10 things...http://www.venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15575) and being sexually miscalibrated (e.g., she says 'I love being your little slut' and you stop fucking her and say 'oh, but honey you're not a slut...')
To reiterate, you may think it's unfair that women will pass you up because you aren't good in bed, but it is the cold hard truth of modern dating. Rather than fight it, I recommend working on that aspect of your skill set. Of course you can't read her mind, but if you have a huge box of tools to pull from (and you meet the other criteria), she'll have a hard time looking elsewhere for fulfillment.

[RoyaltyInExile]

I mentioned intolerant men because



is an incredibly intolerant comment. This isn't off track, because it was you who introduced the notion of judging a girl's sexuality.

But I understand and in part agree with your underlying message that it's unfair to throw away someone because they need instruction on what you want.
But there are many layers to this, the least offensive to women being you can't read her mind. The larger offenses are being primarily self-gratifying (see my post on 10 things...http://www.venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15575) and being sexually miscalibrated (e.g., she says 'I love being your little slut' and you stop fucking her and say 'oh, but honey you're not a slut...')
To reiterate, you may think it's unfair that women will pass you up because you aren't good in bed, but it is the cold hard truth of modern dating. Rather than fight it, I recommend working on that aspect of your skill set. Of course you can't read her mind, but if you have a huge box of tools to pull from (and you meet the other criteria), she'll have a hard time looking elsewhere for fulfillment.

LOL, it's not unfair to men; it's a woman being unfair to herself, robbing herself of a chance to be happy because she has a warped set of priorities. Remember, "good in bed" is subjective. Another woman may say the same man is great in bed. To use that as criteria for rejecting a guy after having sex one time with him is far more intolerant than calling a woman a slampig because she places a guy's ability to make her have an orgasm on the first time they have sex in her top three qualities she is looking for in a man. I wouldn't call it intolerant; I'd say it's just calling a spade a spade.

[Decibel]

This is a male-centered way of thinking. You don't 'make a woman have an orgasm.' You create the right setting that will allow her to have an orgasm. And you do this by being 'good in bed.' By good in bed, I mean having sexual calibration, creativity, knowledge, stamina, and understand the importance of imagination and female fantasy.
And it isn't just women who prioritize sexual experience. I make it completely clear to a woman that sex must happen early in a relationship (as in the first few hours), because if there is no sexual chemistry, I am not interested in wasting anyone's time. And similarly, I make it my responsibility to know each girl's fantasies and desires so I can do my best to satisfy her.

[DaveyFresh"]

In my experience, what you guys THOUGHT asab was talking about isn't actually that uncommon.

As women become more sexually experienced, many of them simply don't want to devote the time and energy to "train" a man on how to pleasure her. Especially when there might be someone else in her life who may already know just how to...push her buttons, so to speak. It's not really that surprising when you really think about it, either. I mean how many times can you tell a guy "I like this, this that, and this and then I will orgasm" before you start getting tired of it?

I'm not saying all women are like this, and there are definitely plenty of women out there who love the idea of "breaking in the new guy". But there ARE plenty of women that EXPECT a man to at least have a general idea of what their doing. And really, as PUAs, shouldn't we be making sure we already know how to pleasure our partners without her having to explain it to us? We're supposed to be artists, masters of seduction...it would be pretty ridiculous if, after all the dancing around the courtship process, we couldn't even "work it out", don't you think?

Allow me to disagree Prophet... you see sex is something to master as well and a pickup artist must seduce many woman to eventually learn the pro skills and secrets. NO MAN in this world has really any idea how much it takes his first time.

I was lucky my first time because I had sex with a 35 year old :) she basically trained me and I last a long good time... but alot of it is experience in the end... the younger the are the more energy yes but that doesn't mean you will be a magical beast right away... it takes time and training like anything else. -- Truth

[Johnny Soporno]

Frankly, I'm so appalled by most of what I've read here, I don't even want to comment.

Prophet, could you move THIS iteration of this thread to 'off topic' or something, and restart it again here?

Johnny Soporno

[asab204]

thats just funny right there...you guys are truely annoyed/aggrevated/judgemental about things that are said by a woman in the women's perspective section of this forum please do not debate this. not nor ever did I say "after the first time of having sex with some one and they suck I get rid of" nope sorry NEVER said that. Also I agree with johnny this is way off topic this originally was a friend of prophets made a list of qualities that SHE looks for in a man...not that ALL women look for in men. You need to stop generalizing and just accept that not all women are the same I said earlier that I agree with most of what she wrote but some of the things didn't hold true for me.

[Saturn5]

Damn, this description sounds an awful lot like someone I know. ;).

Except I'm not exactly tall and I dont subscribe to dominance... I subscribe to equality.

I've never understood why women correlate height with protection...don't theye realize that lanky guys can be taken out readily by shorter more powerful guys?

[Tay Tay]

Tay tay, remind me why you're a virgin. I'm sure it's voluntary, but I'm curious why you would not give yourself one of life's greatest gifts? I worry the more time you wait, the harder you'll kick yourself for not doing it sooner.

thach1ef: I like your posts. You've put thought into your position, but I just don't agree with your conclusions. May I recommend you watch Johnny Soporno's vids. He talks about sluts, whores and polygamy. You may not agree with him, but you may get a better idea where many in the community are coming from.
I'm a virgin because I haven't found a guy that I consider worthy. Unfortunely, the selection of men where I live isn't the best. I don't have many choices the guys here all try to act like gangstas or are druggies. I'm not interested in either of these types

[Decibel]

Then I don't blame you for waiting. Hopefully you can get out of there soon and find yourself a decent gent. Then I'd love to hear what you think about the experience.

[Tay Tay]

Then I don't blame you for waiting. Hopefully you can get out of there soon and find yourself a decent gent. Then I'd love to hear what you think about the experience.

When it happens I'll be sure to let you know lol:)

[Gmand38]

I agree with the thachief on his slam pig comment. Partly because Im intolerant and frustrated, and partly because he gave me a really funny new word (thanks man).

If asab is still around here... I got a question. If a man who possesses *all* those traits comes into your life...whats gonna keep him around after he rocks your world. All the things that seem so important to you in this relationship are things he can take elsewhere immediately after your hookup, which wasnt all that special anyway being that he acquired all his skills elsewhere.

[Decibel]

Im intolerant and frustrated

This is what's called a chick repellant. You may wanna work on this.

[Gmand38]

Your *absolutely* right, and thats good advice, but I worked on that in like 8th grade bro. Saying something like that to *anyone* I know would be completely stunningly awkward. I shudder at the mere thought of it. Even reading it now makes me feel ew.

Call it a paroxysmal experiment provoked by an atmosphere of anonimity. It didnt really have the desired effect though since I cant see everyones reaction.

[Decibel]

But regardless of the effect on us, you might find it helpful to explore it in another thread, maybe in the inner game subforum, and try to work out a solution.

[DaveyFresh"]

I agree with the thachief on his slam pig comment. Partly because Im intolerant and frustrated, and partly because he gave me a really funny new word (thanks man).

If asab is still around here... I got a question. If a man who possesses *all* those traits comes into your life...whats gonna keep him around after he rocks your world. All the things that seem so important to you in this relationship are things he can take elsewhere immediately after your hookup, which wasnt all that special anyway being that he acquired all his skills elsewhere.

Its natural to be frustrated and intolerant at first that is the first step... the second step is over coming those emotions and using them to plan how your going to change... the third step is gaining the steps to seduce woman... and the fourth is the ability and successful mastery of learning to give them there needs. -- Truth

[Prophet]

Allow me to disagree Prophet... you see sex is something to master as well and a pickup artist must seduce many woman to eventually learn the pro skills and secrets. NO MAN in this world has really any idea how much it takes his first time.

I was lucky my first time because I had sex with a 35 year old :) she basically trained me and I last a long good time... but alot of it is experience in the end... the younger the are the more energy yes but that doesn't mean you will be a magical beast right away... it takes time and training like anything else. -- Truth

I think we agree more than you realize, Truth.

It was never my intention to imply that a man should automatically KNOW how to be sexually calibrated. Like you say, it takes time and training and experience. I was simply commenting on the idea put forth by some people that it's strange or unfair that some women would EXPECT a man to be able to perform well in the bedroom.

My post, as Decibel elaborated on so well, was simply to remind everyone that sexual experience can be more important to women than some aspiring PUAs would like to think.

Frankly, I'm so appalled by most of what I've read here, I don't even want to comment.

Prophet, could you move THIS iteration of this thread to 'off topic' or something, and restart it again here?

Johnny Soporno

I too, am quite surprised by some of the responses here.

What we have here is a list of things that a sexually open and self-aware woman finds important in a man. But instead of trying to understand WHY those concepts are important and how we can adjust ourselves to ensure that we meet as many of those criteria as possible, we have a bunch of people debating whether or not this woman SHOULD find those criteria important. It sort of reminds me of myself when I was still reading through the VAH: I would sit there and think things like "Well that's not fair. Women shouldn't care that I'm overweight. They should look past my looks and just see what an amazing person I am."

Sadly, that's not how the world works.

The fact is, this is what this particular woman finds important in a man. And when you consider her criteria from both a sociological and an evolutionary point of view, you will see that most of her criteria (i.e. being confident, fun, able to protect her, able to satisfy her sexual needs, etc, etc) are things that most women will find important either personally or instinctively. Whether or not any of us personally disagree with that is, from a practicality standpoint, irrelevant.

I've noticed a very definite pattern in your posts, Prophet. I didn't comment aty first because I wanted to see if the pattern persisted.

Has anyone noticed that when there is an argument, even a polite debate between a man and a woman on this forum, Prophet ALWAYS sides with the woman?

Prophet, in debates between a men and women on this forum, can you show me even a couple examples where you've sided with the man's opinion or shared his point of view more closely than the woman's point of view? When you consider the number of men on this forum and the number of women, the odds against the women always being right according to one guy's opinion are astronomical! Are you honestly being objective, or perhaps are your intents, perhaps something other than simply being objective? We've got an awful lot of intelligent guys here, some of which are also good people. I find it hard to believe that in a purely objective look at all types of disputes between men and women here on this forum, that any man would always side with the women's points of view, the orders of their priorities, and always find more in common with their value systems than those of any of the men here.

I've actually never noticed this myself. But really, it doesn't surprise me. There certainly are a lot of intelligent men posting here, but frankly, very few of them have actually demonstrated very much of an understanding of female psychology.

I think the whole concept of me taking sides here is rather skewed. I really had no intention of arguing either way whether or not she was right. To me, it's a moot point. I'm not saying "I agree with the women's points of view, the orders of their priorities, and always find more in common with their value systems than those of any of the men here." I'm saying "This is her point of view. These are the orders of her priorities. This is how her value system works. Suck it up, deal with it and adapt accordingly." There's a rather large difference there, wouldn't you think?

[thach1ef]

...is an incredibly intolerant comment. This isn't off track, because it was you who introduced the notion of judging a girl's sexuality.

But I understand and in part agree with your underlying message that it's unfair to throw away someone because they need instruction on what you want.
But there are many layers to this, the least offensive to women being you can't read her mind. The larger offenses are being primarily self-gratifying (see my post on 10 things...http://www.venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15575) and being sexually miscalibrated (e.g., she says 'I love being your little slut' and you stop fucking her and say 'oh, but honey you're not a slut...')
To reiterate, you may think it's unfair that women will pass you up because you aren't good in bed, but it is the cold hard truth of modern dating. Rather than fight it, I recommend working on that aspect of your skill set. Of course you can't read her mind, but if you have a huge box of tools to pull from (and you meet the other criteria), she'll have a hard time looking elsewhere for fulfillment.

I wouldn't necessarily call it intolerant. As Royal said, it's calling a spade a spade. People are too PC these days. You guys are trying to convince yourself that a women who is in touch with her sexuality is the same as a women who doesn't care and sleeps around.

There ARE differences.

You can be a women who is sexually experienced and not be a whore. Don't lump the 2 together.

I also want to comment that I'm not arguing this side because I've been turned away for what's happened in the bedroom.

If you actually read what I wrote previously you'll see that I commented numerous times on how in my relationships I was big on communication and got the other person to open up, discuss and try new things. This in fact made the sex life the best part of our relationship.

But guess what... surprise guys, sex isn't everything in a relationship.

The people who bank on sex being the focal point of their relationship usually end up very unhappy. It's just how it is. This is also something some of you aspiring PUA's need to realize.

So when I start seeing people focus so much on how good the guy/girl is in bed as a main deciding factor, it makes me laugh.

And let's not kid ourselves here. Some people are trying to swing this into a guy who just doesn't want to learn, or doesn't want to listen.

This isn't how this convo started. This started because the people arguing about sex being a top priority made it seem like within the first few dates that was going to be a deciding factor. They weren't talkin about dating for a few months and the guy just not learning.

Let's not try to spin this around.

[thach1ef]

This is a male-centered way of thinking. You don't 'make a woman have an orgasm.' You create the right setting that will allow her to have an orgasm. And you do this by being 'good in bed.' By good in bed, I mean having sexual calibration, creativity, knowledge, stamina, and understand the importance of imagination and female fantasy.
And it isn't just women who prioritize sexual experience. I make it completely clear to a woman that sex must happen early in a relationship (as in the first few hours), because if there is no sexual chemistry, I am not interested in wasting anyone's time. And similarly, I make it my responsibility to know each girl's fantasies and desires so I can do my best to satisfy her.

To be quite honest. I think you're going to miss out on a lot life has to offer with this philosophy.

If you are out there in life to have sex with as many women as possible and don't care about future or relationships. Fine this is a great way to go about it.

But for someone that might be looking for a relationship and not just trying to be a guy who "puts another notch on his belt". This way of thinking is extremely flawed.

I guess that's also something to consider. There are lots of guys here just looking to get women into bed so they can brag. But I also have seen from reading that there are guys here who want to learn more about women in an moral and ethical way to be able to go searching for possible relationship material.

[RoyaltyInExile]

I think we agree more than you realize, Truth.

It was never my intention to imply that a man should automatically KNOW how to be sexually calibrated. Like you say, it takes time and training and experience. I was simply commenting on the idea put forth by some people that it's strange or unfair that some women would EXPECT a man to be able to perform well in the bedroom.

My post, as Decibel elaborated on so well, was simply to remind everyone that sexual experience can be more important to women than some aspiring PUAs would like to think.



I too, am quite surprised by some of the responses here.

What we have here is a list of things that a sexually open and self-aware woman finds important in a man. But instead of trying to understand WHY those concepts are important and how we can adjust ourselves to ensure that we meet as many of those criteria as possible, we have a bunch of people debating whether or not this woman SHOULD find those criteria important. It sort of reminds me of myself when I was still reading through the VAH: I would sit there and think things like "Well that's not fair. Women shouldn't care that I'm overweight. They should look past my looks and just see what an amazing person I am."

Sadly, that's not how the world works.

The fact is, this is what this particular woman finds important in a man. And when you consider her criteria from both a sociological and an evolutionary point of view, you will see that most of her criteria (i.e. being confident, fun, able to protect her, able to satisfy her sexual needs, etc, etc) are things that most women will find important either personally or instinctively. Whether or not any of us personally disagree with that is, from a practicality standpoint, irrelevant.



I've actually never noticed this myself. But really, it doesn't surprise me. There certainly are a lot of intelligent men posting here, but frankly, very few of them have actually demonstrated very much of an understanding of female psychology.

I think the whole concept of me taking sides here is rather skewed. I really had no intention of arguing either way whether or not she was right. To me, it's a moot point. I'm not saying "I agree with the women's points of view, the orders of their priorities, and always find more in common with their value systems than those of any of the men here." I'm saying "This is her point of view. These are the orders of her priorities. This is how her value system works. Suck it up, deal with it and adapt accordingly." There's a rather large difference there, wouldn't you think?

My post wasn't only regarding this particular thread, but the whole forum in general. Most of the incidents I'm talking about are found here in this section of the forum, but not under this particular thread.

I was reminded of it however, when you wrote this: " And really, as PUAs, shouldn't we be making sure we already know how to pleasure our partners without her having to explain it to us?"

My answer is, no, we shouldn't. Every woman likes different things. We don't claim to be mind readers. Part of the fun of beginning a sexual relationship with someone is getting to know what they like and having them show us the things they like best. It's not work, it's not something to dread; it's something that's inevitably going to be part of any good sexual relationship. Communication is very important. It's what allows us to learn these things, and enjoy the process.

PUA or not, I seriously doubt that you already know how to pleasure a woman the way that she likes it done without her explaining any of it to you. Are you suggesting that you already know without being told, for example, if a woman enjoys oral sex? If she does happen to enjoy it, do you already know the way she likes it done the most?

Unless you believe all women have the same tastes and that there is one best technique of sexually satisfying every woman, and that individual preferences between women regarding what they like in bed don't exist, then what you're asking of us is not only unreasonable; it's impossible.

Aside from this matter, if you could show me even a couple disputes between a man and a woman on this forum where you interjected and blamed the woman for being unreasonable rather than blaming the man for being unreasonable, I'd sure like to see it. If you look back and try to find such an example, you'll very likely only find incident after incident of you blaming the man for being unreasonable while coming to the defense of the woman. Your obvious favoritism isn't doing the morale of the forum any wonders, I can assure you.

[RoyaltyInExile]

I wouldn't necessarily call it intolerant. As Royal said, it's calling a spade a spade. People are too PC these days. You guys are trying to convince yourself that a women who is in touch with her sexuality is the same as a women who doesn't care and sleeps around.

There ARE differences.

You can be a women who is sexually experienced and not be a whore. Don't lump the 2 together.

I also want to comment that I'm not arguing this side because I've been turned away for what's happened in the bedroom.

If you actually read what I wrote previously you'll see that I commented numerous times on how in my relationships I was big on communication and got the other person to open up, discuss and try new things. This in fact made the sex life the best part of our relationship.

But guess what... surprise guys, sex isn't everything in a relationship.

The people who bank on sex being the focal point of their relationship usually end up very unhappy. It's just how it is. This is also something some of you aspiring PUA's need to realize.

So when I start seeing people focus so much on how good the guy/girl is in bed as a main deciding factor, it makes me laugh.

And let's not kid ourselves here. Some people are trying to swing this into a guy who just doesn't want to learn, or doesn't want to listen.

This isn't how this convo started. This started because the people arguing about sex being a top priority made it seem like within the first few dates that was going to be a deciding factor. They weren't talkin about dating for a few months and the guy just not learning.

Let's not try to spin this around.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you for bringing a mature and reasonable perspective to this discussion.

Frankly, I don't care to meet girls who choose to make sex the focal point of a relationship or expect a man to know exactly what they like the first time they have sex with him. These neurotic, irrational types don't interest me. I'm only interested in women who have a healthy and reasonable set of priorities and expectations.

[asab204]

I agree with the thachief on his slam pig comment. Partly because Im intolerant and frustrated, and partly because he gave me a really funny new word (thanks man).

If asab is still around here... I got a question. If a man who possesses *all* those traits comes into your life...whats gonna keep him around after he rocks your world. All the things that seem so important to you in this relationship are things he can take elsewhere immediately after your hookup, which wasnt all that special anyway being that he acquired all his skills elsewhere.


What do you mean by this "question"? I do not understand what you are looking for as far as answer wise goes.. are you attempting to have me qualify myself? if so just ask via PM I will not post my qualifications on any thread I have done so before and have learned not to do that as I would be negged ALL of the time thereafter.

Royalty dude give the mods a break man, you keep AMOGGING them and that would help you. I do see what your saying I truly understand however I believe that you are missing their point(s) as well.

[Prophet]

My post wasn't only regarding this particular thread, but the whole forum in general.

So was my response.


Every woman likes different things. We don't claim to be mind readers. Part of the fun of beginning a sexual relationship with someone is getting to know what they like and having them show us the things they like best. It's not work, it's not something to dread; it's something that's inevitably going to be part of any good sexual relationship. Communication is very important. It's what allows us to learn these things, and enjoy the process.

PUA or not, I seriously doubt that you already know how to pleasure a woman the way that she likes it done without her explaining any of it to you. Are you suggesting that you already know without being told, for example, if a woman enjoys oral sex? If she does happen to enjoy it, do you already know the way she likes it done the most?

Unless you believe all women have the same tastes and that there is one best technique of sexually satisfying every woman, and that individual preferences between women regarding what they like in bed don't exist, then what you're asking of us is not only unreasonable; it's impossible.


I agree.

I had figured that the things you just said would be rather obvious, so I didn't think it was necessary to clarify those points. Of course you cant know in advance what tastes a woman has. Of course there isn't one specific technique that satisfies every woman. But you can have a strong grasp of the female anatomy. You can know (at least in a general sense) what parts respond to certain stimuli. You can be able to calibrate what you're doing by reading her physical responses.

Obviously, you still need communication. You still need to have fun with it and explore each others sexuality. But you still need to know the terrain if you plan on getting anywhere without needing someone to guide you.





I think people are operating in too many extremes here.

Most women aren't going to consider sex to be the most important part of a relationship. But that doesn't mean it's not going to be important to them. How can you really expect to have a successful sexual relationship if there isn't any sexual chemistry? Don't relationship psychologists and marriage counselors always say that a healthy sex life is important in any relationship? It's not the MOST important, per say, but it's still an important factor.

Same goes for what I said about sexual experience. Most women aren't going to expect you to automatically know what gets them off, but they ARE going to expect you to at least know what you're doing down there. How things got misconstrued into "If you cant read her mind the first time, you're dumped." really kind of baffles me.

[azazels_wolf]

I think we can take much of this conversation and apply it back to LL's statements:

-He listens.
A sexually calibrated man will listen and pay attention to what his lover is trying to tell him, and will try to stay as aware as possible of how she is responding to what he does. He will also encourage her to communicate regarding what she's feeling and what else she needs, and he will in turn communicate same to her.

-He’s Dominant
He will know how to lead when she wants him to, and will have the experience and confidence to back it up. He will have an effective general idea of how to please her, while still remaining open to her tips and requests.

-He’s Affectionate
He will approach all of this from a loving and open perspective, with a giving mentality. A warm and affectionate vibe will open you both to exploring, sharing, and receiving, with no judgement or animosity.


Women usually love it and appreciate it when men have a strong understanding for their female psychology, as well as their body (and those two things are inseparable). This is all a part of becoming the best man you can be.

[Decibel]

I don't want to reiterate what Prophet is saying, since it's basically my point. But I will comment on a couple things.

I wouldn't necessarily call it intolerant. As Royal said, it's calling a spade a spade. People are too PC these days. You guys are trying to convince yourself that a women who is in touch with her sexuality is the same as a women who doesn't care and sleeps around.

There ARE differences.

You can be a women who is sexually experienced and not be a whore. Don't lump the 2 together.

This is a big illogical mess. Who's calling anyone a whore? How is calling a girl who puts sex in her top 5 a slut NOT an intolerant viewpoint? Where by your definition does a woman stop being 'sexually experienced' and start being a whore?
Bottom line, you're judging women who choose to have multiple partners, whatever you want to call them. I'm saying you should not do that. There is no need to make a moral judgment against what anyone decides to do sexually.

But guess what... surprise guys, sex isn't everything in a relationship.

The people who bank on sex being the focal point of their relationship usually end up very unhappy.

Nobody has made the claim that sex is everything in a relationship, or the focal point. You're arguing a point that was never brought up.

If you are out there in life to have sex with as many women as possible and don't care about future or relationships. Fine this is a great way to go about it.

But for someone that might be looking for a relationship and not just trying to be a guy who "puts another notch on his belt". This way of thinking is extremely flawed.

Frankly, I don't care to meet girls who choose to make sex the focal point of a relationship or expect a man to know exactly what they like the first time they have sex with him. These neurotic, irrational types don't interest me. I'm only interested in women who have a healthy and reasonable set of priorities and expectations.

Again, you're arguing a point that was never made. I never said I wanted to have sex with as many women as possible, don't care about relationships, or like putting notches on my belt. You have once again misinterpreted what I said.
To be clear, this is about accepting the fact that women have a voracious sexual appetite, far more than that of men. Go read My Secret Garden and you'll realize how intense their fantasies are. These are not 'whores' or 'sluts,' 'irrational' or 'neurotic' as you'd call them, but the girl next door, very emotionally healthy women. You are dismissing this critical fact, and as a result it is YOU who will miss out on a lot in life.

Thank you for bringing a mature and reasonable perspective to this discussion.

And thank you for calling me immature and unreasonable. :)

[asab204]

decibal...you rock..just wanted you to know

guys take a few notes from this dude he is AWESOME! and read his pua guide I have enjoyed it look forward to reading more from him.

[DaveyFresh"]

I am starting to get appalled at the number of debate like views... everyone is free to an opinion but we have already taken this long past topic into the ground.

If you wan't truth then we need to stop favoritism... and yes there actually is a large part going on... I am a student of psychology... and I have been around many woman my whole life... every girl is a unique new mystery to swelve into.

Of course understanding the Female anatomy is great that is important to know but... also remember that things turn people on differently then just knowing how to stimulate an area.

I would feel a girl would want to be turned on all over her body giving her a major sexual experience... and for this I believe that tantric sex is one of the most interesting things.

The idea of a perfect man is impossible because we are never going to be perfect... we are constantly eveolving and are journeys never end.. but if I had to say what a woman wanted in my perspective... it would be a Man with confidence a backbone and the ability to live his life while fully accepting her but who is also capable of losing her if he has to.

Sex is important differently all around the world and unless you have had sex with every woman... which by the way is impossible and a rather repulsive thought then you'll never know how to please em all. -- Truth

[Russianstar]

I am starting to get appalled at the number of debate like views... everyone is free to an opinion but we have already taken this long past topic into the ground.

If you wan't truth then we need to stop favoritism... and yes there actually is a large part going on... I am a student of psychology... and I have been around many woman my whole life... every girl is a unique new mystery to swelve into.

Of course understanding the Female anatomy is great that is important to know but... also remember that things turn people on differently then just knowing how to stimulate an area.

I would feel a girl would want to be turned on all over her body giving her a major sexual experience... and for this I believe that tantric sex is one of the most interesting things.

The idea of a perfect man is impossible because we are never going to be perfect... we are constantly eveolving and are journeys never end.. but if I had to say what a woman wanted in my perspective... it would be a Man with confidence a backbone and the ability to live his life while fully accepting her but who is also capable of losing her if he has to.

Sex is important differently all around the world and unless you have had sex with every woman... which by the way is impossible and a rather repulsive thought then you'll never know how to please em all. -- Truth


I agree on this.. although I have never been a fan of Tantric Sex because it seems so complicated for such a simple task.. but -Truth- you are totally right about everything you said. Also.. dnt get me wrong.. if you can leanr Tantric Sex and all then awesome for you, it just, personally, hasn't worked out for me!!

[azazels_wolf]

Tantric sex isn't really that complicated, and it's the most incredible experience you can give yourself and your lover. In fact, you DO become the perfect lover and perfect man for her if you can give her that gift, and you will be equally rewarded if you do it correctly.

Russianstar, a lot of what is popularly called "tantric sex" isn't the real thing, but rather just an enhancement of well-known sexual technique that results in an enhanced genital orgasm, or series of such.... whereas the true, highest form of tantric experience is energy-based and bypasses regular orgasm to create a much more intense, full-body experience that can go on for hours. It will completely blow away any limiting beliefs you have regarding sex (and love, for that matter).

If you want, PM me and tell me what you've tried, what works and doesn't work, and I can probably tell you what you need to fix to get into that state. The lore and spiritual wisdom surrounding it is extremely complicated, because it is based on an entire yogic process of spiritual enlightenment.... but the actual execution of the foundational technique really isn't. Many people make it more complicated than it needs to be, until you're more familiar with the intricacies and full possibilities.

[Russianstar]

I am starting to get appalled at the number of debate like views... everyone is free to an opinion but we have already taken this long past topic into the ground.

If you wan't truth then we need to stop favoritism... and yes there actually is a large part going on... I am a student of psychology... and I have been around many woman my whole life... every girl is a unique new mystery to swelve into.

Of course understanding the Female anatomy is great that is important to know but... also remember that things turn people on differently then just knowing how to stimulate an area.

I would feel a girl would want to be turned on all over her body giving her a major sexual experience... and for this I believe that tantric sex is one of the most interesting things.

The idea of a perfect man is impossible because we are never going to be perfect... we are constantly eveolving and are journeys never end.. but if I had to say what a woman wanted in my perspective... it would be a Man with confidence a backbone and the ability to live his life while fully accepting her but who is also capable of losing her if he has to.

Sex is important differently all around the world and unless you have had sex with every woman... which by the way is impossible and a rather repulsive thought then you'll never know how to please em all. -- Truth

Tantric sex isn't really that complicated, and it's the most incredible experience you can give yourself and your lover. In fact, you DO become the perfect lover and perfect man for her if you can give her that gift, and you will be equally rewarded if you do it correctly.

Russianstar, a lot of what is popularly called "tantric sex" isn't the real thing, but rather just an enhancement of well-known sexual technique that results in an enhanced genital orgasm, or series of such.... whereas the true, highest form of tantric experience is energy-based and bypasses regular orgasm to create a much more intense, full-body experience that can go on for hours. It will completely blow away any limiting beliefs you have regarding sex (and love, for that matter).

If you want, PM me and tell me what you've tried, what works and doesn't work, and I can probably tell you what you need to fix to get into that state. The lore and spiritual wisdom surrounding it is extremely complicated, because it is based on an entire yogic process of spiritual enlightenment.... but the actual execution of the foundational technique really isn't. Many people make it more complicated than it needs to be, until you're more familiar with the intricacies and full possibilities.

Thanks man.. i totally appreciate that.. are there any books or websites you know of that explains it and how its done? Cuz i think ive got it COMPLETELY wrong.

[thach1ef]

Who's calling anyone a whore?

Are you blacked out? You just commented on it in your next sentence... unless you're not understanding that slut and whore are interchangeable words.

How is calling a girl who puts sex in her top 5 a slut NOT an intolerant viewpoint? Where by your definition does a woman stop being 'sexually experienced' and start being a whore?
Bottom line, you're judging women who choose to have multiple partners, whatever you want to call them. I'm saying you should not do that. There is no need to make a moral judgment against what anyone decides to do sexually.


I'm honestly confused about this. A slut is a slut. It is what it is. You can't change the definition of a slut. Me calling someone a slut doesn't make me intolerant at all. It's me merely pointing our a characteristic of someone. It could be agreed upon by others or disagreed upon. But it's not intolerant by any means. Just because the word has a negative meaning, doesn't change what it is.

From what you are saying it seems you don't even believe in the word. Like it doesn't exist. Like there are no sluts in this world.

There is no line between sexually experienced and being a slut/whore. It's a personality trait. It's how the woman carries herself. How she treats herself. How she respects herself.

It's not like if you sleep with X number of guys in Y period of time, you're a slut. It's the process.

Sorry. I didn't make up the word.


Nobody has made the claim that sex is everything in a relationship, or the focal point. You're arguing a point that was never brought up.



In fact yes. Asab said that if a guy wasn't good in bed but had a majority of the other characteristics on that list. That she would get rid of him. Thus meaning that his ability in bed outweighed 7-9 other things making sex the focal point.....

NEXT!


Again, you're arguing a point that was never made. I never said I wanted to have sex with as many women as possible, don't care about relationships, or like putting notches on my belt. You have once again misinterpreted what I said.


No.. again you are not understanding. This is a discussion. Unless someone directs something at you by name. Stop trying to think people are talking about you.

Same with you assuming that I'm arguing my side of this because I suck in bed and can't learn.

I merely pointed out that there are a lot of guys here for 1 reason vs the other. And that the 2 reasons don't always coincide.

With that being said. If you're not one of those guys that is looking to put a notch on his belt. Then how on earth do you have the mindset of "I make it completely clear to a woman that sex must happen early in a relationship (as in the first few hours),"

I'm sorry. That line cracked me up something fierce. You make it clear to women that you must have sex within 2 hours or else you're done? Give me a break! lol

If that doesnt sound like a sleazebag that just wants to have sex with as many women as possible without giving a shit, then I don't know what is.

At least you say you're upfront about it. I'll give you that much.


To be clear, this is about accepting the fact that women have a voracious sexual appetite, far more than that of men. Go read My Secret Garden and you'll realize how intense their fantasies are. These are not 'whores' or 'sluts,' 'irrational' or 'neurotic' as you'd call them, but the girl next door, very emotionally healthy women. You are dismissing this critical fact, and as a result it is YOU who will miss out on a lot in life.


Again, no one is debating a woman's sexual appetite. No need to go back to this over and over again. It's not being debated.

Please try to understand what I am saying about this. Being sexually healthy and experienced is NOT the same as a slut. I'm not quite sure why you are trying so hard to get these to fall into the same category...

[RoyaltyInExile]

I don't want to reiterate what Prophet is saying, since it's basically my point. But I will comment on a couple things.



This is a big illogical mess. Who's calling anyone a whore? How is calling a girl who puts sex in her top 5 a slut NOT an intolerant viewpoint? Where by your definition does a woman stop being 'sexually experienced' and start being a whore?
Bottom line, you're judging women who choose to have multiple partners, whatever you want to call them. I'm saying you should not do that. There is no need to make a moral judgment against what anyone decides to do sexually.

If there were no need to make moral judgements against what anyone does sexually, it would be necessary for there somehow to be a barrier separating morals from sexual behavior. What you are advocating is a philosophy that makes no moral distinction between the actions of the most wanton slut and those of a woman who waits to have sex with a man whom she loves and values greatly.

It is simply not possible to separate morality from human behavior or to reasonably say that all forms of human behavior are equally moral. If you do not believe that morality applies to human behavior, then what do you claim morality does apply to?

If we are to accept that morality does indeed apply to human behavior and that the two are inextricably linked, what is it that exempts sexual activity from all the other forms of human behavior that morals do apply to? You seem to believe that one's sexual behavior is something that exists in a sort of moral vacuum. I find such a philosophy to be useless at best and evil at worst. For you to suggest to the members of this forum that their sexual behavior is something which morality does not apply to or that any form of sexual behavior they may choose to behave in, no matter how vile or degrading, is of equal moral value is to do a tremendous disservice to those members of the forum, especially those who are young and impressionable, some as young as sixteen years old.

You also say: "Nobody has made the claim that sex is everything in a relationship, or the focal point. You're arguing a point that was never brought up."

I seem to remember it being brought up, but even if it hasn't been brought up, I'm not aware of any rule here which restricts me to discussing matters which haven't already been brought up, are you?

You go on to say: "To be clear, this is about accepting the fact that women have a voracious sexual appetite, far more than that of men."

No, it's not. This is about the choices people make and the morality of their choices, it is about the priorities people make and the reasoning behind how they choose the order of those priorities, and it is about their value judgements and how people's value judgements affect their happiness and ultimately, their quality of life.


"Go read My Secret Garden and you'll realize how intense their fantasies are."

No thank you.


"These are not 'whores' or 'sluts,' 'irrational' or 'neurotic' as you'd call them, but the girl next door, very emotionally healthy women. You are dismissing this critical fact, and as a result it is YOU who will miss out on a lot in life."

Perhaps there are many things I will miss out on in life - but it will be by my own choice. There are plenty of things in life which I have no wish to experience. For example, I choose to "miss out" on having sexual relationships with people who are neurotic and irrational. I plan to "miss out" on ever committing adultery and I even plan on "missing out" on having indiscriminate sex with women who lack the virtues which make them desirable to me, worthy of giving my body to, and therefore possible for me to have sex with while maintaining my dignity and self-respect.


"And thank you for calling me immature and unreasonable."

I made no such statement. Had I done so, it would have been a charitable one, I assure you.

[DaveyFresh"]

Why does everything seem like a war nowadays... we are fighting among ourselves while the bad guys are hurting the woman we should be giving life to.

It makes no sense to continue this fight... -- Truth

[azazels_wolf]

Russianstar:

Taking this to PM as soon as I have the chance, probably within the next day or so. Feel free to PM me in the meantime if you want to.

[asab204]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Decibel
Nobody has made the claim that sex is everything in a relationship, or the focal point. You're arguing a point that was never brought up.

In fact yes. Asab said that if a guy wasn't good in bed but had a majority of the other characteristics on that list. That she would get rid of him. Thus meaning that his ability in bed outweighed 7-9 other things making sex the focal point.....


actually no I didn't say it far more exceeded any of the other characteristics I simply said I rank experience as one of the characteristics since I am not a how to manual...first experiences with a person that has experience is what I was talking about.

thach1ef you misunderstood my words completely please refrane from doing so again. thanks so very much.

[Decibel]

Why does everything seem like a war nowadays... we are fighting among ourselves while the bad guys are hurting the woman we should be giving life to.

It makes no sense to continue this fight... -- Truth

Yup, I'm done.
There is a chorus of people here trying to tell them the fallacy in their thinking, but it's getting nowhere.

[DaveyFresh"]

Yup, I'm done.
There is a chorus of people here trying to tell them the fallacy in their thinking, but it's getting nowhere.

So I guess we should grab a seat and watch all the senseless banter then huh Deci -- Truth

[Decibel]

Eh, let's go get some honeys instead.

[DaveyFresh"]

Eh, let's go get some honeys instead.

Lets... by the way I used a few suggestions from your field guide... seeing if they will work lol -- Truth

[thach1ef]

actually no I didn't say it far more exceeded any of the other characteristics I simply said I rank experience as one of the characteristics since I am not a how to manual...first experiences with a person that has experience is what I was talking about.

thach1ef you misunderstood my words completely please refrane from doing so again. thanks so very much.

Asab, the bad thing about trying to pretend like you didn't say something online is that there is a written record....

as for the sex thing yeah well duh thats as to be expected if he ain't good in the sack then what are the other problems you have in your life besides sucking at sex...you are obviously NOT the man for me, even if you do have a majority of these qualities sex must be good or else byebye.


So tell me again how I misunderstood what you wrote?

[asab204]

well that's just what I mean you obviously misunderstood what I meant by that, I meant that if he's not good in bed then yeah bye even if he does have the experience I just wouldn't want to be with that person for the rest of my life if he wasn't good in bed. It must go on a deeper level, maybe lack of communication is that thing, or it's just we don't mesh chemistry wise; I mean you and I wouldn't EVER get together even if you were to have all the other qualities and were good in bed because for I think it would be like oh that was good but I could be better with someone else even if I were to give you all the things you wanted sexually if we don't have chemistry then it's all for not.

[Mack Wild]

well that's just what I mean you obviously misunderstood what I meant by that, I meant that if he's not good in bed then yeah bye even if he does have the experience I just wouldn't want to be with that person for the rest of my life if he wasn't good in bed. It must go on a deeper level, maybe lack of communication is that thing, or it's just we don't mesh chemistry wise; I mean you and I wouldn't EVER get together even if you were to have all the other qualities and were good in bed because for I think it would be like oh that was good but I could be better with someone else even if I were to give you all the things you wanted sexually if we don't have chemistry then it's all for not.

Just one final point here guys. This is a point for all you guys who are constantly finding yourself arguing with these girls online.

If you can't look at what she just wrote and find it cute and be touched by the feminine energy in this, then you have work to do. Some of you DO seem to have some issues with women. I read this and it made me smile and think she was kind of cute. Im certainly not all offended or questioning if i need to go get a penis pump or something. lol.

[Silk]

[QUOTE=asab204;113934] not being condescending by any means just saying you guys truely did not understand what I was saying, learning what different pleasures each of us enjoys is great but no I wouldn't take a virgin to bed with me why? he's not a man in my eyes, he just a boy who is unknown in the art of seduction. Sorry if that offends anyone but really why should I want to teach them how to have sex?

If every woman or man thought the same way as you do we would all be virgins lol !!! Asab think about what you just said for a second... I'm gonna guess that you were a virgin at some point but no longer are? Well you'd still be a virgin if the guy you had sex with thought to himself '' mmmmm this chick is a virgin she's not a woman in my eye's, damn why the hell would I want to teach her how to have sex?'' Isn't that slightly self centred and just a little selfish? If the guy had every single quality on your 'list' but was a virgin you'd dump him? Seems to me like you loosing out, how many guys are you going to let pass you by because you can't be bothered? Isn't that the essence of a good relationship - giving and recieving? Damn girl are you telling me you wouldn't give Brad Pitt a chance (if you had the chance lol) just because (let us imagine) he was a virgin? Prince charming could be staring you in the face for all you know but you'd just walk on past.... sad really :(


Oh yeah and just out of interest are you a catholic? (the whole bible quote thing as your sig. ?)

[Mack Wild]

[QUOTE=asab204;113934]not being condescending by any means just saying you guys truely did not understand what I was saying, learning what different pleasures each of us enjoys is great but no I wouldn't take a virgin to bed with me why? he's not a man in my eyes, he just a boy who is unknown in the art of seduction. Sorry if that offends anyone but really why should I want to teach them how to have sex?

Oh is this what started it?

OK.

Well listen guys every single one of us at one point was a virgin. I remember back when I was a virgin. I was messing around with the girl and it took me a couple of times to even TRY to have full sex with her. When I finally tried I was unable to fit. In other words I couldn't get my dick to go all the way into the hole. I was so humiliated that I gave up. She still chased me but I DUMPED HER -- because I was so humiliated.

So don't take offense to this. If your a virgin you just need to get some sexual experience and at some point you will be a good lover. No worries. Babysteps.

[thach1ef]

Asab, you're still not making any sense to be quite honest.

You're talking in circles. One post you say that you never said bedroom skills was a high priority, the next post you say it is.

So which is it?

Mack Wild,

I know you're trying to work on your "online game" but it's see through. I read what Asab wrote and other than having a discussion, I have no idea what you're talking about.

As for your last post about virgins. I don't think that has anything to do with it. But nice try in throwing negs at people.

My reasoning behind this discussion has nothing to do with a virgin or not.

I don't want to change Asabs way of thinking, but it would be refreshing for her to just admit that she thinks bedrooms skills are more important in a partner than most other things.

I'm not here to try and change peoples opinions. But I am here to try and understand other peoples points of view. That's what I'm trying to get at. Right now Asab is running in circles.

[RoyaltyInExile]

[QUOTE=asab204;113934] not being condescending by any means just saying you guys truely did not understand what I was saying, learning what different pleasures each of us enjoys is great but no I wouldn't take a virgin to bed with me why? he's not a man in my eyes, he just a boy who is unknown in the art of seduction. Sorry if that offends anyone but really why should I want to teach them how to have sex?

If every woman or man thought the same way as you do we would all be virgins lol !!! Asab think about what you just said for a second... I'm gonna guess that you were a virgin at some point but no longer are? Well you'd still be a virgin if the guy you had sex with thought to himself '' mmmmm this chick is a virgin she's not a woman in my eye's, damn why the hell would I want to teach her how to have sex?'' Isn't that slightly self centred and just a little selfish? If the guy had every single quality on your 'list' but was a virgin you'd dump him? Seems to me like you loosing out, how many guys are you going to let pass you by because you can't be bothered? Isn't that the essence of a good relationship - giving and recieving? Damn girl are you telling me you wouldn't give Brad Pitt a chance (if you had the chance lol) just because (let us imagine) he was a virgin? Prince charming could be staring you in the face for all you know but you'd just walk on past.... sad really :(


Oh yeah and just out of interest are you a catholic? (the whole bible quote thing as your sig. ?)

Asab, how did you become experienced? Being an enlightened female I'm sure you believe in equality of the sexes and certainly wouldn't have such a sense of entitlement as to presume that a man should lower himself to being a "how to manual" for you to learn, so what was the alternative? How did you get experienced enough so that you were able to become more than just a little girl unexperienced in the art of seduction and worthy of a man with standards equal to your own?

[Mack Wild]

Asab, you're still not making any sense to be quite honest.

You're talking in circles. One post you say that you never said bedroom skills was a high priority, the next post you say it is.

So which is it?

Mack Wild,

I know you're trying to work on your "online game" but it's see through. I read what Asab wrote and other than having a discussion, I have no idea what you're talking about.

As for your last post about virgins. I don't think that has anything to do with it. But nice try in throwing negs at people.

My reasoning behind this discussion has nothing to do with a virgin or not.

I don't want to change Asabs way of thinking, but it would be refreshing for her to just admit that she thinks bedrooms skills are more important in a partner than most other things.

I'm not here to try and change peoples opinions. But I am here to try and understand other peoples points of view. That's what I'm trying to get at. Right now Asab is running in circles.


?????????

Ok. So now your mad at ME because I don't agree with you?

Cool man.

If you don't see how her post is kind of cute then maybe it was just me, i do tend to be easily amused. Who knows.

[Tay Tay]

?????????

Ok. So now your mad at ME because I don't agree with you?

Cool man.

If you don't see how her post is kind of cute then maybe it was just me, i do tend to be easily amused. Who knows.

Lol I don't see anything cute about what she posted either. why was it cute?

[Mack Wild]

Well first off Tay I find you to be cute a lot of the time too with all your little questions that you ask.

I mean you and I wouldn't EVER get together even if you were to have all the other qualities and were good in bed because for I think it would be like oh that was good but I could be better with someone else even if I were to give you all the things you wanted sexually if we don't have chemistry then it's all for not.

I just pictured one of my girlfriends all up in my face feeling emotional and being like "Yeah -- well I don't want to have sex with you either because your a mean poopypants" or maybe I say something that pisses her off and she is like "mack wild I woudn't have sex with you if you were THE LAST MAN ON EARTH" :p

Like I said -- Im easily amused. I try to take women seriously when they are emotional if something really is bothering them but I tend to find it cute most of the time. Of course maybe I misinterpreted her post, but I still find the whole situation funny. I mean how many times does the poor thing have to explain herself just for saying she enjoys hot sex? She must be at least a little frustrated and emotional by this point. lol.

[Tay Tay]

Well first off Tay I find you to be cute a lot of the time too with all your little questions that you ask.



I just pictured one of my girlfriends all up in my face feeling emotional and being like "Yeah -- well I don't want to have sex with you either because your a mean poopypants" :p

Like I said -- Im easily amused. I try to take women seriously when they are emotional if something really is bothering them but I tend to find it cute most of the time. Of course maybe I misinterpreted her post, but I still find the whole situation funny. I mean how many times does the poor thing have to explain herself just for saying she enjoys hot sex? She must be at least a little frustrated and emotional by this point. lol.
I'm a very curious person
I don't want to be cute..Cute makes me feel like a little kid

[Mack Wild]

I'm a very curious person
I don't want to be cute..Cute makes me feel like a little kid

Awwwww

Do you want a hug?

No just kidding. Im not suppose to be flirting with you guys. lol.

Point noted. :cool:

[Tay Tay]

Awwwww

Do you want a hug?

No just kidding. Im not suppose to be flirting with you guys. lol.

Point noted. :cool:

I don't care if you flirt or not just don't be rude

[Mack Wild]

I don't care if you flirt or not just don't be rude

lol. So now suddenly I'm rude????? Tay tay what's happened between us, we use to be so close!

Calling someone cute is not rude in my book, just like when you call a guy nice or sweet it's not rude in your book.

If a guy thinks your cute you should learn to take it as a compliment, it's not always a bad thing.

[Tay Tay]

lol. So now suddenly I'm rude????? Tay tay what's happened between us, we use to be so close!

Calling someone cute is not rude in my book, just like when you call a guy nice or sweet it's not rude in your book.

If a guy thinks your cute you should learn to take it as a compliment, it's not always a bad thing.

LOL No I wasn't calling you rude I was just saying I don't care if they flirt just don't be rude about it

[asab204]

mack good to have you back buddy been missin' ya. also thank you for understanding my posts and for calling me cute thats sweet. ch1ef just doesn't understand....he's bad at gaming let alone online gaming and yes he is making me frustrated. he totally missed the AFOG though, glad atleast SOMEBODY got it. haha

[Mack Wild]

LOL No I wasn't calling you rude I was just saying I don't care if they flirt just don't be rude about it

Phew. Ok good.

For a minute there I was worried that my 10 years of confidence therapy was going straight down the drain!! ;)

[asab204]

ROFL you crack me up mack, threw me off guard when I read it.

[Mack Wild]

ROFL you crack me up mack, threw me off guard when I read it.

I try. :D

Have a good night guys.

[Tay Tay]

I know this thread is called "My idea of The Perfect Man" but Mack what is your idea of the perfect woman?

[Decibel]

I am enjoying this softer side of Mack.

[Tay Tay]

I am enjoying this softer side of Mack.

So am I:D

Maybe you could answer my question, what's your idea of the perfect woman?

[DaveyFresh"]

I'm a very curious person
I don't want to be cute..Cute makes me feel like a little kid

Your still a teenager though :) -- Truth

[RoyaltyInExile]

Asab, how did you become experienced? Being an enlightened female I'm sure you believe in equality of the sexes and certainly wouldn't have such a sense of entitlement as to presume that a man should lower himself to being a "how to manual" for you to learn, so what was the alternative? How did you get experienced enough so that you were able to become more than just a little girl unexperienced in the art of seduction and worthy of a man with standards equal to your own?

[thach1ef]

mack good to have you back buddy been missin' ya. also thank you for understanding my posts and for calling me cute thats sweet. ch1ef just doesn't understand....he's bad at gaming let alone online gaming and yes he is making me frustrated. he totally missed the AFOG though, glad atleast SOMEBODY got it. haha

ugh, you people are so brainwashed.

what on earth makes you think im trying to game you? i dont even know you other than a screen name. i dont try and "game" females online, sorry not my style.

im trying to have a discussion, not pick you up, get off your pedestal.

[asab204]

Asab, how did you become experienced? Being an enlightened female I'm sure you believe in equality of the sexes and certainly wouldn't have such a sense of entitlement as to presume that a man should lower himself to being a "how to manual" for you to learn, so what was the alternative? How did you get experienced enough so that you were able to become more than just a little girl unexperienced in the art of seduction and worthy of a man with standards equal to your own?

like any other teenage kid that was curious and wanted to find out how things worked between guys and girls. we had learned together which was very sweet since we both hadn't known what to do and where things go, I read a lot of smutty romance novels to help understand sex and what makes sense and what not. all of my experiences were at different stages in my life. I first learned to give head when I was 18 and the guy thought I knew how to do it since he said I was great at it. I had sex for the first time when I was 21 because I felt it was the right timme for me in life. we were on the same page. we had explored all other parts of sex without actualky having sex.

[RoyaltyInExile]

like any other teenage kid that was curious and wanted to find out how things worked between guys and girls. we had learned together which was very sweet since we both hadn't known what to do and where things go, I read a lot of smutty romance novels to help understand sex and what makes sense and what not. all of my experiences were at different stages in my life. I first learned to give head when I was 18 and the guy thought I knew how to do it since he said I was great at it. I had sex for the first time when I was 21 because I felt it was the right timme for me in life. we were on the same page. we had explored all other parts of sex without actualky having sex.

Thank you. I apologize for the tone of my question; I remember what it felt like to be already 22 and just having sex for the first time, so I was what you might call a late bloomer. I was fortunate enough to be in a relationship with a woman who actually found it a turn on to teach me things that you were comparing to being used as a "how to manual."

She must have loved me enough to think that not only was it worth it to her to teach me how to have sex but also found it a turn on. It really didn't take that long for me to learn either. Maybe I had good instincts.

It's hard for me to understand why if you really loved a guy you wouldn't find it to both you and your boyfriend's advantage to teach him how to have sex if he were very inexperienced. Perhaps I misunderstood you though. Maybe you meant that if there was a guy that you loved you would be willing to teach him things that most guys would already know, just so long as he learned at a good rate and was steadily improving.

[acesulfamek]

Why are so many of you guys apologizing or allowing yourselves to be put on the defensive? Don't allow people to twist your frame around. Its a text forum, you've got time to think about it.

[RoyaltyInExile]

Why are so many of you guys apologizing or allowing yourselves to be put on the defensive? Don't allow people to twist your frame around. Its a text forum, you've got time to think about it.

I feel I was more antagonistic than necessary. I don't apologize for my beliefs or feel that I'm on the defensive but I would like to stop fighting and discuss things more calmly.

[Decibel]

Maybe you could answer my question, what's your idea of the perfect woman?

Ok, sure.
1. Confident but feminine. This is harder to pull off than it sounds. She has to make me feel like a man. I've dated submissive LSE girls, and that isn't it. I've dated dominant secure girls, and that isn't it. She has to be comfortable with her feminine essence, such that she can be confident in public, but relax in private and let me be a man.
2. Good at communicating. In bed or not, she has to be able to tell me what she wants. Sure, girls will generally be indirect and play hard-to-get. That's expected. But when the rubber meets the road, she needs to be able to let me know honestly what she feels and wants.
3. Loves sex. I've dated girls who don't want sex (for various reasons including religious). That's not for me. Nor is a girl who uses sex to leverage something from me. Sex is win-win.
4. Offers value selflessly. One of my main core values is helping people. That's why my guide is free, and why I'm always going out with newbs. It is important that I am always looking for ways to help others in whatever way I can, and it's equally important my women have this as a core value.
5. The It factor. Can't define this. Makes me laugh, makes me proud, makes me comfortable, makes me excited, makes me think. This is a combination of many different traits that gets me attracted.

[Tay Tay]

Ok, sure.
1. Confident but feminine. This is harder to pull off than it sounds. She has to make me feel like a man. I've dated submissive LSE girls, and that isn't it. I've dated dominant secure girls, and that isn't it. She has to be comfortable with her feminine essence, such that she can be confident in public, but relax in private and let me be a man.
2. Good at communicating. In bed or not, she has to be able to tell me what she wants. Sure, girls will generally be indirect and play hard-to-get. That's expected. But when the rubber meets the road, she needs to be able to let me know honestly what she feels and wants.
3. Loves sex. I've dated girls who don't want sex (for various reasons including religious). That's not for me. Nor is a girl who uses sex to leverage something from me. Sex is win-win.
4. Offers value selflessly. One of my main core values is helping people. That's why my guide is free, and why I'm always going out with newbs. It is important that I am always looking for ways to help others in whatever way I can, and it's equally important my women have this as a core value.
5. The It factor. Can't define this. Makes me laugh, makes me proud, makes me comfortable, makes me excited, makes me think. This is a combination of many different traits that gets me attracted.
I like your answer. It sounds like you've been thinking about it for quite awhile. The best part is that you didn't mention looks like I expected, you only listed things about her personality. You sound like a great guy. I hope you find your perfect woman soon:)

[Mack Wild]

I know this thread is called "My idea of The Perfect Man" but Mack what is your idea of the perfect woman?

Spontaneous, imperfect, tries new things, fun, sense of humor, independant, in touch with femine energy, individuality, some odd but cute quicks, honest, the girl next door with some secrets ....

Fuck it.

These guys lyrics do it justice better than me:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy1dezyKAwI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy1twy2p_8w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbG6M28UkFg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTRW7sGgiUE

[RunAmok]

Well I figured I would jump in even though its a bit late. RoyaltyInExile and thach1ef you guys need to realize that a large amount of women, like asab204, think the way they do because they have a huge amount of viable guys that fit the criteria of the OP to choose from. If you are a decent looking woman you can pull 90% of the guys out there with ease. This explains why if she has tried to work it out with you in the sack and explained how to get her off, and then you can't, she gets rid of you. In this day and age if you don't have some sexual experience by 20y.o. I really want nothing to do with you because that's a lot of work to be done on a girl that probably has some type of issue that I don't want to deal with.

As far as the "reading a woman's mind" on what she likes its not as hard as you make it seem. If you are giving her oral and she starts breathing heavier and tensing up you can tell that you're doing it right. The key is to give her enough room to move into the position or pace she likes. Most women will drop subtle hints as to what they like if you are paying attention, its all about sexual calibration. You guys should know that if you have been in as many relationships that you have claimed.

As always Decibel is on point! This guy is the real deal and if you don't believe me read the PUA Field Guide and I guarantee you learn something new each time.

[Tay Tay]

Well I figured I would jump in even though its a bit late. RoyaltyInExile and thach1ef you guys need to realize that a large amount of women, like asab204, think the way they do because they have a huge amount of viable guys that fit the criteria of the OP to choose from. If you are a decent looking woman you can pull 90% of the guys out there with ease. This explains why if she has tried to work it out with you in the sack and explained how to get her off, and then you can't, she gets rid of you. In this day and age if you don't have some sexual experience by 20y.o. I really want nothing to do with you because that's a lot of work to be done on a girl that probably has some type of issue that I don't want to deal with.

As far as the "reading a woman's mind" on what she likes its not as hard as you make it seem. If you are giving her oral and she starts breathing heavier and tensing up you can tell that you're doing it right. The key is to give her enough room to move into the position or pace she likes. Most women will drop subtle hints as to what they like if you are paying attention, its all about sexual calibration. You guys should know that if you have been in as many relationships that you have claimed.

As always Decibel is on point! This guy is the real deal and if you don't believe me read the PUA Field Guide and I guarantee you learn something new each time.

Why would she have to have some kind of issue if she's still a vigin at 20?
What if a guy is a virgin at 20 does that mean he has some type of issue? Wouldn't it be too much work to help him?

[RoyaltyInExile]

Well I figured I would jump in even though its a bit late. RoyaltyInExile and thach1ef you guys need to realize that a large amount of women, like asab204, think the way they do because they have a huge amount of viable guys that fit the criteria of the OP to choose from. If you are a decent looking woman you can pull 90% of the guys out there with ease. This explains why if she has tried to work it out with you in the sack and explained how to get her off, and then you can't, she gets rid of you. In this day and age if you don't have some sexual experience by 20y.o. I really want nothing to do with you because that's a lot of work to be done on a girl that probably has some type of issue that I don't want to deal with.

As far as the "reading a woman's mind" on what she likes its not as hard as you make it seem. If you are giving her oral and she starts breathing heavier and tensing up you can tell that you're doing it right. The key is to give her enough room to move into the position or pace she likes. Most women will drop subtle hints as to what they like if you are paying attention, its all about sexual calibration. You guys should know that if you have been in as many relationships that you have claimed.

As always Decibel is on point! This guy is the real deal and if you don't believe me read the PUA Field Guide and I guarantee you learn something new each time.

Reducing it to matter of looks - typical.

You consider it work? If you love her, why would you consider it work? If it seems like work you just don't get it. If she's important to you, what should it matter to you if she doesn't have any experience?

If you really want to marry a girl that has had a LOT of sex, marry a prostitute.

I like the women that are selective, the women that haven't had sex with a lot of different guys.

[Cathal]

Just one thing...if you love her then yes. I've been following this thread for a bit now and haven't seen anyone talk about love yet (not saying they haven't, just haven't seen it). That's a different story I believe. This is after all a "pickup" forum. Things can turn that way after a pickup but in general I meet and sleep with lots of girls, I don't fall in love that often. (Feel free to judge me for that if any of you would like to, just know it'll be inconsequential).

"Issues" is a loose word. I'll say that she's got a different lifestyle from me and we probably won't work out. Knowing that what little of my lifestyle you do know, don't be too quick to pass judgement there either...just saying I'm a very sexual person. Eh. That's all I've care to add.

[RunAmok]

Reducing it to matter of looks - typical.


There is scientific evidence to back up that looks are very important, good game is even more so, but that's not the topic of the thread. The issue that has become the topic of the thread (once it was hijacked) is how important sex is to a woman in rating a guy. asab204, a woman who has had sex, says that it is very important. To the point that after a bit of coaching if the guy can't get it right she gets rid of him. That's because she has many options to choose from. I agree, but apparently you all believe that "love" will hold every relationship together not true commonalities and sexual chemistry. Currently the divorce rate is at 50%, do you think those people were "in love" when they got married?

[thach1ef]

There is scientific evidence to back up that looks are very important, good game is even more so, but that's not the topic of the thread. The issue that has become the topic of the thread (once it was hijacked) is how important sex is to a woman in rating a guy. asab204, a woman who has had sex, says that it is very important. To the point that after a bit of coaching if the guy can't get it right she gets rid of him. That's because she has many options to choose from. I agree, but apparently you all believe that "love" will hold every relationship together not true commonalities and sexual chemistry. Currently the divorce rate is at 50%, do you think those people were "in love" when they got married?

No they most likely based their relationships off of other things. Like sex for one...

[CrazyWilly]

I bet if you do a survey of people getting married 99% would say they are in love. The other 1% is doing it because they feel an obligation to take care of a kid they accidentally made.

Here is what I look for: She'll have to be rich, that's certain; and wise, or I'll have none; virtuous, or I'll never cheapen to her level; beautiful, or I'll never even look at her; mild, or she'll come not near me; noble, or not I for an angel; a good speaker, an excellent musician, and her hair shall be... of whatever color it pleases God.

[RoyaltyInExile]

There is scientific evidence to back up that looks are very important, good game is even more so, but that's not the topic of the thread. The issue that has become the topic of the thread (once it was hijacked) is how important sex is to a woman in rating a guy. asab204, a woman who has had sex, says that it is very important. To the point that after a bit of coaching if the guy can't get it right she gets rid of him. That's because she has many options to choose from. I agree, but apparently you all believe that "love" will hold every relationship together not true commonalities and sexual chemistry. Currently the divorce rate is at 50%, do you think those people were "in love" when they got married?

More likely they were in lust. Perhaps they were immature. Maybe they had unrealistic expectations of what marriage should be like based on movies and TV shows they had seen. A book could be written on this subject. To somehow blame love for the divorce rate or to ignore the importance of love in a marriage is foolish though.

You're skipping the part where asab said that she would not have sex with a virgin because she does not consider a virgin to be a man. So in that case she wouldn't be willing to even coach him. Not even a little.

Having things in common is something that can contribute to falling in love with someone. Such as admiring their philosophy on life or admiring their ethics - ethics which you share. Therefore, commonalities and love are not mutually exclusive and sexual chemistry is certainly not mutually exclusive from love either. You're looking at it as an either/or situation, when really it's a situation where you can have all 3 - love, commonalities, and sexual chemistry.

[thach1ef]

Seriously, let's not try and change the discussion mid way through it.

Let's cut through the crap. Plain and simple what I believe asab was saying is that she values bedroom skills more highly in a relationship than the other 9 or so qualities listed.

This can be attriubuted to her stating that if a man had a majority of those other charactaristics but wasn't good in bed that she would leave him.

When confronted about a time frame for him to "get good in bed" she didn't comment. So we have no way to tell if she meant after 6 months or after 1 shot.

Personally I find it hilarious that anyone could feel this way. Maybe I'm just not as perfect as you guys are. But if I were to find a woman who was :

- Attractive
- Intelligent
- Witty
- Caring
- Honest
- Sexy
- Open

but wasn't a pornstar in bed. Then I wouldn't dump her. I would be 100% willing to work with her.

I'm starting to feel like some of you people place sex up higher than anything else in life. And that's pretty sad.

[Slyy]

what's all this about being tall? Every girl is talking about tall. Why would you want to look at your guy's face and stare at the sun at the same time? How tall are you guys talking generally? Is the tall aspect like a subconsious feeling of "he's big he can protect me."?


and yes, i'm 5'8 so that's not very tall. haha.

[RoyaltyInExile]

what's all this about being tall? Every girl is talking about tall. Why would you want to look at your guy's face and stare at the sun at the same time? How tall are you guys talking generally? Is the tall aspect like a subconsious feeling of "he's big he can protect me."?


and yes, i'm 5'8 so that's not very tall. haha.

Excellent fucking question. Being tall isn't something a guy earns or has to work to get that way, it's just pure luck if you end up tall. What's impressive about something that didn't require any effort on his part? As far as being protected, knowing how to fight is a lot more important than being tall. Besides, who's tougher basketball players or football players, hockey players, wrestlers, etc? A good wrestler will take a basketball player down and tie him up into a pretzel.

If you really want to be safe, get a boyfriend who has a gun and knows how to use it.

"God created men and Smith and Wesson made them equal." - Evel Knievel

[BootyLover]

There is no "perfect" man or woman. Be the best you want to be.

[Slyy]

Excellent fucking question. Being tall isn't something a guy earns or has to work to get that way, it's just pure luck if you end up tall. What's impressive about something that didn't require any effort on his part? As far as being protected, knowing how to fight is a lot more important than being tall. Besides, who's tougher basketball players or football players, hockey players, wrestlers, etc? A good wrestler will take a basketball player down and tie him up into a pretzel.

If you really want to be safe, get a boyfriend who has a gun and knows how to use it.

"God created men and Smith and Wesson made them equal." - Evel Knievel

Exactly my point. I mean i'm wondering if that's why girls like tall guys so much, cause a number of my female friends go ga ga over tallies. I'm wondering if it goes by appearances as the tall guy being able to protect, although. Girls, is this like a set thing? Or if you had a guy that was tall, vs. a short guy with game and was a martial artist, and a wrestler, and a boxer which would it even out?

[RoyaltyInExile]

Exactly my point. I mean i'm wondering if that's why girls like tall guys so much, cause a number of my female friends go ga ga over tallies. I'm wondering if it goes by appearances as the tall guy being able to protect, although. Girls, is this like a set thing? Or if you had a guy that was tall, vs. a short guy with game and was a martial artist, and a wrestler, and a boxer which would it even out?

One more thing to add - when you're lying down everybody's pretty much the same height. :D

I know that the ideal for women who are models is close to 6 feet tall. I guess that's the modeling industry's ideal woman. I like petite women though - they're so cute! Anywhere from 5 feet tall to 5 feet 4 inches is my favorite height. That doesn't mean I'm not attracted to taller women though. The tallest women I ever fell in love with or came close to falling in love with were 5 foot 10 inches! For a woman to be small is a preference of mine but it wouldn't make my list of top 10 priorities - not even close.

[Tay Tay]

oExactly my point. I mean i'm wondering if that's why girls like tall guys so much, cause a number of my female friends go ga ga over tallies. I'm wondering if it goes by appearances as the tall guy being able to protect, although. Girls, is this like a set thing? Or if you had a guy that was tall, vs. a short guy with game and was a martial artist, and a wrestler, and a boxer which would it even out?

Oooh that hard one. My thing is a don't want someone who I'd have to look down to. I've always imagined someone who's slightly taller or is taller than me. You see I'm 5'1 and I hate it I wish I was taller. I wouldn't want something I don't like about myself on my guy (the shortness) But that's just me.
As for the Martial arts thing, I think martial art are EXTREMELY sexy and for the most part I'd go for the martial arts, the boxer, or the westler

[RoyaltyInExile]

o

Oooh that hard one. My thing is a don't want someone who I'd have to look down to. I've always imagined someone who's slightly taller or is taller than me. You see I'm 5'1 and I hate it I wish I was taller. I wouldn't want something I don't like about myself on my guy (the shortness) But that's just me.
As for the Martial arts thing, I think martial art are EXTREMELY sexy and for the most part I'd go for the martial arts, the boxer, or the westler

You might hate being 5'1" but trust me, a lot of guys think that's really cute - better than being tall!

I once had a female friend who was 5'5" I think. She said to me one day "I wish I was either taller or shorter. If you're tall you look elegant; if you're short you're petite and cute, but I'm not either one."

[Tay Tay]

You might hate being 5'1" but trust me, a lot of guys think that's really cute - better than being tall!

I once had a female friend who was 5'5" I think. She said to me one day "I wish I was either taller or shorter. If you're tall you look elegant; if you're short you're petite and cute, but I'm not either one."

I hate being called cute lol
What's weird is I'm short but I have long legs. I think I look weird It would be better if I were a little taller just a little

[acesulfamek]

Personally I find it hilarious that anyone could feel this way. Maybe I'm just not as perfect as you guys are. But if I were to find a woman who was :

- Attractive
- Intelligent
- Witty
- Caring
- Honest
- Sexy
- Open

but wasn't a pornstar in bed. Then I wouldn't dump her. I would be 100% willing to work with her.

I'm starting to feel like some of you people place sex up higher than anything else in life. And that's pretty sad.

I agree. I call bullshit on anyone who says that. Creating strong emotional connection and being able to build and hold tension will keep any girl around no matter how different you are from her perceived perfect man. That's why threads like this are rarely ever useful. What's most important is always what they respond to. Look at Dwight - he was an asshole and the girls here followed him around. What girls say they want is rarely ever what they'll actually respond to, which is why the best information comes from putting all of this to the test.

Just recently my girl wanted very specifically

- A Christian
- Successful
- Nice and polite
- Would open doors for her and buy her flowers
- Treat her like a lady


With me, she got

- An atheist
- Spectacular failure
- Definitely not nice, and rude when people waste my time
- I buy her stuff when she earns it only, and have never bought her flowers
- Treats her like a real normal person and respects her for who she is, not some fantasy version of herself
- Also treats her like a dirty little whore

Guess which guy consumes her thoughts and feelings? While dating me at first she was also dating a Christian guy who fit those exact descriptions above. I wasn't worried. He was no threat. 4 expensive dates later he still hadn't kissed her. That was a 29 year old cop\investigator of some kind.

If I've ever sucked in bed, and I'm sure sometimes I have when I wasn't in the mood, it never made any difference. I've kept girls long distance too, simply with using fairly basic game, and basing it on what they responded to, never what they said they wanted.

That's been my experience with most girls. I'm generally always not the kind of guy they just posted to a forum\yapped to their friends saying they wanted. Other people's experience may differ but its a good rule of thumb to take with a pinch of salt this kind of stuff, and just make a mental note to experiment with it next time you're in the field. Seek out girls that would normally not date a guy like you.

[Tay Tay]

I agree. I call bullshit on anyone who says that. Creating strong emotional connection and being able to build and hold tension will keep any girl around no matter how different you are from her perceived perfect man. That's why threads like this are rarely ever useful. What's most important is always what they respond to. Look at Dwight - he was an asshole and the girls here followed him around. What girls say they want is rarely ever what they'll actually respond to, which is why the best information comes from putting all of this to the test.

Just recently my girl wanted very specifically

- A Christian
- Successful
- Nice and polite
- Would open doors for her and buy her flowers
- Treat her like a lady


With me, she got

- An atheist
- Spectacular failure
- Definitely not nice, and rude when people waste my time
- I buy her stuff when she earns it only, and have never bought her flowers
- Treats her like a real normal person and respects her for who she is, not some fantasy version of herself
- Also treats her like a dirty little whore

Guess which guy consumes her thoughts and feelings? While dating me at first she was also dating a Christian guy who fit those exact descriptions above. I wasn't worried. He was no threat. 4 expensive dates later he still hadn't kissed her. That was a 29 year old cop\investigator of some kind.

If I've ever sucked in bed, and I'm sure sometimes I have when I wasn't in the mood, it never made any difference. I've kept girls long distance too, simply with using fairly basic game, and basing it on what they responded to, never what they said they wanted.

That's been my experience with most girls. I'm generally always not the kind of guy they just posted to a forum\yapped to their friends saying they wanted. Other people's experience may differ but its a good rule of thumb to take with a pinch of salt this kind of stuff, and just make a mental note to experiment with it next time you're in the field. Seek out girls that would normally not date a guy like you.

First off let me make it perfectly clear, the only reason why it seemed like I "followed" Dwight was because for some reason I liked arguing with him. I like to debate. I also liked to prove him wrong.

Second..I'm not sure why your gf stays with you if you treat her like a dirty slave.
I want a man to treat me well. It doesn't have to be the royal treatment but it sure as hell isn't going to be me being treated like a little slave

[Slyy]

yeah that's about what i was saying, its kind of a hard one to judge. Like i'm 5'8 but would have no problem dating a tall girl, most of the girls i've gotten with are shorter than me (5'1, 5'2 area) but i am an equal opportunity employer. Anyway, so how tall is tall, are you guys talking anyone taller than you, cause I guess that makes sense, or are you talking like wilt chamberlain tall? I suppose its all a variation on which girl your asking. Thanks for your imput tay

[Decibel]

What's getting lost in this discussion is that this is a PUA forum. Yeah, you can go to a venue and find a girl who is ok with you being average. But PUAs strive to be ELITE among lovers. That means supply must meet the demand, or else you're not competing adequately in the dating market.
And if the majority of women prefer a man who is good in bed, then you must be that man. Doesn't matter in the slightest if YOU don't agree with this priority, or if you think these girls are sluts.
Guys who don't have social intelligence won't cut it. Men who are too afraid to escalate won't cut it. And boys who don't know their way around a woman's body won't cut it.
This is the big league. Welcome to the jungle.

[Slyy]

well there is a difference between treating a girl like a dirty slave and a dirty whore. Option a is only fun for one person, option B is fun for both.

[Tay Tay]

yeah that's about what i was saying, its kind of a hard one to judge. Like i'm 5'8 but would have no problem dating a tall girl, most of the girls i've gotten with are shorter than me (5'1, 5'2 area) but i am an equal opportunity employer. Anyway, so how tall is tall, are you guys talking anyone taller than you, cause I guess that makes sense, or are you talking like wilt chamberlain tall? I suppose its all a variation on which girl your asking. Thanks for your imput tay

What I consider tall is anybody who's taller than me
You're very welcome:D

[DaveyFresh"]

What's getting lost in this discussion is that this is a PUA forum. Yeah, you can go to a venue and find a girl who is ok with you being average. But PUAs strive to be ELITE among lovers. That means supply must meet the demand, or else you're not competing adequately in the dating market.
And if the majority of women prefer a man who is good in bed, then you must be that man. Doesn't matter in the slightest if YOU don't agree with this priority, or if you think these girls are sluts.
Guys who don't have social intelligence won't cut it. Men who are too afraid to escalate won't cut it. And boys who don't know their way around a woman's body won't cut it.
This is the big league. Welcome to the jungle.

Feels a deep inner lion roar coming from his throat... welcome to the jungle... no may I caveman? -- Truth

[asab204]

welcome to the jungle we got fun and games we are the people that find whatever you may need......

[RoyaltyInExile]

What's getting lost in this discussion is that this is a PUA forum. Yeah, you can go to a venue and find a girl who is ok with you being average. But PUAs strive to be ELITE among lovers. That means supply must meet the demand, or else you're not competing adequately in the dating market.
And if the majority of women prefer a man who is good in bed, then you must be that man. Doesn't matter in the slightest if YOU don't agree with this priority, or if you think these girls are sluts.
Guys who don't have social intelligence won't cut it. Men who are too afraid to escalate won't cut it. And boys who don't know their way around a woman's body won't cut it.
This is the big league. Welcome to the jungle.

Welcome to the jungle
We take it day by day
If you want it you're gonna bleed
But it's the price you pay
And you're a very sexy girl
That's very hard to please
You can taste the bright lights
But you won't get them for free
In the jungle
Welcome to the jungle
Feel my, my, my serpentine
I, I wanna hear you scream

"Doesn't matter in the slightest if YOU don't agree with this priority, or if you think these girls are sluts."

Might matter to them; it does matter to me. Who the hell are you or anyone else to dictate to me what the priorities are? The way I see it, I'm only in this jungle to find my one lioness and she shares the same priorities, the same values, and a lot of other good stuff with me - that makes her THE ONE FOR ME. And we both laugh at sluts. Reminds me of a night down in Tampa when a couple of my buds and I were driving into an open all night McDonald's and we see a car rolling in with two chicks in it and a little sign hanging down from their rear view mirror facing out that said "I (heart shape) SEX" So we roll our windows down and start talking to these two girls. They follow my car back to our dorm and we're inside my friend's room - there's three or four of us guys and the two girls we met at McDonald's, at least one of which apparently loves sex. So we're talking about sex and at some point in the conversation after it becomes clear that this one girl at least is a total slut, my friend says to her "You're very promiscuous aren't you?" She asks: "From where?"

Suffice it to say, she was never going to be THE ONE. Not for me. But hey, if you don't mind girls with only one thing on their mind, have at 'em! As for me, I'm not gonna settle for anything less than a woman of substance, a woman of character, a woman that can turn me on but when we're done making love and we're lying next to each other in bed, she can also have a deep conversation with me.

Sex is a priority for me but it's not my top priority, and if I find a girl that I think has what it takes to be THE ONE, my lioness of the jungle, and she's inexperienced in bed, ya know what? I'll be glad to spend hours, night after night, being her teacher and loving it because to me it's a turn on to be able to introduce the woman I love to something that will make both of us feel very, very good. If she happens to be a virgin - great! That means she hasn't picked up any bad habits - doing things in a way that I don't like. See what I just did right there? I took something some of you see as a negative and turned it into a positive. :cool:

[DaveyFresh"]

Yoour from Florida royalty??

[azazels_wolf]

That's why threads like this are rarely ever useful. What's most important is always what they respond to. Look at Dwight - he was an asshole and the girls here followed him around.



Just because a girl gives you attention and argues with you, doesn't mean she's necessarily going to go to bed with you.

Women interact with LOTS of men whom they never go to bed with, and wouldn't want to. Attention and argumentation does not equal sex. Women give men lots of RESPONSES....those responses do not all lead to sex.

Not all emotional involvement leads to sex. Anger-inducing argumentation is not the same as being challenging in a FUN and ATTRACTIVE way.

Anger does not result in connection and trust and affection. It divides and cuts off. It hurts and frustrates. Just because a woman is infuriated with a man, doesn't mean she has ANY intention of sleeping with him. Sometimes anger is just that - ANGER. AGGRAVATION. DISPLEASURE. Even LOATHING.

Some women will find arrousal in anger... but that is a manifestation of some deeper emotional issues that are tied to their past, and they will seek to maintain those negative emotions and behaviors with you if they see you again, which is not conducive to a healthy relationship. It will simply be a vicious cycle of emotional abuse.

Women who are emotionally balanced would much rather feel POSITIVE emotions.

[Mack Wild]

Just because a girl gives you attention and argues with you, doesn't mean she's necessarily going to go to bed with you.

Women interact with LOTS of men whom they never go to bed with, and wouldn't want to. Attention and argumentation does not equal sex. Women give men lots of RESPONSES....those responses do not all lead to sex.

Not all emotional involvement leads to sex. Anger-inducing argumentation is not the same as being challenging in a FUN and ATTRACTIVE way.

Anger does not result in connection and trust and affection. It divides and cuts off. It hurts and frustrates. Just because a woman is infuriated with a man, doesn't mean she has ANY intention of sleeping with him. Sometimes anger is just that - ANGER. AGGRAVATION. DISPLEASURE. Even LOATHING.

Some women will find arrousal in anger... but that is a manifestation of some deeper emotional issues that are tied to their past, and they will seek to maintain those negative emotions and behaviors with you if they see you again, which is not conducive to a healthy relationship. It will simply be a vicious cycle of emotional abuse.

Women who are emotionally balanced would much rather feel POSITIVE emotions.

Awwwwww shit. Please tell me you did NOT just call Tay Tay someone who has deeper emotional issues tied to her past. :eek:

*Mack Wild ducks and covers ..... like George Bush ....... when he had a shoe throw at him*

[azazels_wolf]

Hahaha.... I think Tay Tay would enjoy throwing shoes at Dwight's head. ;)

But then again, so would most of the forum. :p

[Tay Tay]

Hahaha.... I think Tay Tay would enjoy throwing shoes at Dwight's head. ;)

But then again, so would most of the forum. :p

Aww you guys know me so well and I haven't even been here very long.
Loved, I feel so very loved:D

[DaveyFresh"]

Hahaha.... I think Tay Tay would enjoy throwing shoes at Dwight's head. ;)

But then again, so would most of the forum. :p

Well he was banned so... who will take his place as the forum nuisance... I will admit to missing the Troll lol. -- Truth

[Tay Tay]

Well he was banned so... who will take his place as the forum nuisance... I will admit to missing the Troll lol. -- Truth

I'm not, I have better people to nicely argue with now

[DaveyFresh"]

I'm not, I have better people to nicely argue with now

Why do you want to argue with people here for? -- Truth

[Tay Tay]

Why do you want to argue with people here for? -- Truth

Hmm? I'm not here to argue but if I disagree I will state my opinion..I guess it's more debating than anything

[Decibel]

Sex is a priority for me but it's not my top priority, and if I find a girl that I think has what it takes to be THE ONE, my lioness of the jungle, and she's inexperienced in bed, ya know what? I'll be glad to spend hours, night after night, being her teacher and loving it because to me it's a turn on to be able to introduce the woman I love to something that will make both of us feel very, very good. If she happens to be a virgin - great!

So let's say you meet the love of your life...BUT...YOU don't meet HER sexual needs. She feels unfulfilled. You don't know how to calibrate sexually, how to dominate her like she wants, and you have a limited repertoire of manual and oral skills. What if? Besides financial, a bad sex life is a major reason why LTRs fail.
So again, to become proficient at seduction, you need to learn these skills. We are debating two different things. I'm making the case to be sexually competent, and you're saying sex isn't that important and if a girl is a slut you're not interested anyway.
But to find that ONE special girl, you need to know how to please girls IN GENERAL. I'm not saying you don't already have these abilities; if you do, you're ahead of most guys.
To say you want to be a PUA without being sexually skilled is like saying you're willing to enter the army as long as you don't have to shoot anyone.

[Mack Wild]

So let's say you meet the love of your life...BUT...YOU don't meet HER sexual needs. She feels unfulfilled. You don't know how to calibrate sexually, how to dominate her like she wants, and you have a limited repertoire of manual and oral skills. What if? Besides financial, a bad sex life is a major reason why LTRs fail.
So again, to become proficient at seduction, you need to learn these skills. We are debating two different things. I'm making the case to be sexually competent, and you're saying sex isn't that important and if a girl is a slut you're not interested anyway.
But to find that ONE special girl, you need to know how to please girls IN GENERAL. I'm not saying you don't already have these abilities; if you do, you're ahead of most guys.
To say you want to be a PUA without being sexually skilled is like saying you're willing to enter the army as long as you don't have to shoot anyone.

Personally i can't stand the word slut. I am with Johnny on this. I think it's a double standard. If a guy has a lot of sex he is a pimp but if a girl enjoys sex that makes her a slut?? If a guy takes risks and goes for things he is living in the moment and embracing his manhood but if a woman does the same thing she is a "slut"???

Guys who have slut complexes and project them onto women end up with a lot of women who are resistant and can't let go and fully trust him. They won't trust him with their deepest secrets. They are worried of being judged by him. They feel contained. They keep their guard up. They feel they must be something they arn't.

Royal you have your priorities and that's great, in fact I agree with you. I have had girls that are very green and I have taught them shit and turned them into little monsters overflowing with sexuality, kinkyness, and hornyness. When I care about a girl I can overlook some lack of experience or adventurousness. However to say that a girl who values sex in her top 5 is a SLUT is the ultimate of hypocracy. Every single one of us is alive today because of sex. There is no such thing as a "slut", it's a term invented by women who wish to amog eachother and men who wish to control, own, and imprison their women.

[RoyaltyInExile]

Personally i can't stand the word slut. I am with Johnny on this. I think it's a double standard. If a guy has a lot of sex he is a pimp but if a girl enjoys sex that makes her a slut?? If a guy takes risks and goes for things he is living in the moment and embracing his manhood but if a woman does the same thing she is a "slut"???

Guys who have slut complexes and project them onto women end up with a lot of women who are resistant and can't let go and fully trust him. They won't trust him with their deepest secrets. They are worried of being judged by him. They feel contained. They keep their guard up. They feel they must be something they arn't.

Royal you have your priorities and that's great, in fact I agree with you. I have had girls that are very green and I have taught them shit and turned them into little monsters overflowing with sexuality, kinkyness, and hornyness. When I care about a girl I can overlook some lack of experience or adventurousness. However to say that a girl who values sex in her top 5 is a SLUT is the ultimate of hypocracy. Every single one of us is alive today because of sex. There is no such thing as a "slut", it's a term invented by women who wish to amog eachother and men who wish to control, own, and imprison their women.

Somebody else said the thing about if sex are in their top 5 priorities...I didn't put an exact number on it; I just said that if sex is at the top of her priority list then she has a screwed up sense of priorities. That's different from saying she's a slut. A slut is a woman who has little or no standards and will have sex with just about any guy. Basically they're extremely promiscuous.

A woman who values how proficient a man is at pleasing her the first few times that they have sex more than how well the guy treats her, for example, doesn't necessarily have to be promiscuous at all. She's not necessarily a slut; she just has a warped sense of values. A guy could be great in bed but be cruel and abusive to a woman outside of bed.

If a woman loves a guy and right before they have sex for the first time he tells her that this is his first time, and she tells him to leave and breaks up with him, again, she has a warped sense of values.

[Peach]

I agree with you men do project the slut factor onto woman. And that does cultivate trust issues .

[Mack Wild]

A woman who values how proficient a man is at pleasing her the first few times that they have sex more than how well the guy treats her, for example, doesn't necessarily have to be promiscuous at all. She's not necessarily a slut; she just has a warped sense of values.

That's not for you to judge though, just because her values differ from yours. I just don't understand why some of you guys are making such a big deal of this, why do you even care?

If a woman loves a guy and right before they have sex for the first time he tells her that this is his first time, and she tells him to leave and breaks up with him, again, she has a warped sense of values.

Im sorry but this is an ideal man. Usually it's a virgin ideal. The fact of the matter is that in real life most of the time people who have sex for the first time are not yet in love. They are in passion or lust or sometimes simply bored. Love is something that developes over time. If we are talking about love then yes sex has little to do with developing love. It plays a role but you can have great sex with someone and still never love them. They are two totally different things.

Im just really baffled right now as to why this conversation is still going, I think it is a conversation based out of insecurities. Sex is something that will either happen or it wont. If your not good at it yet, you can get better at it and it's more than physical, it's also psychological and mental.

For a woman when she is thinking about sex she is not necessarily thinking about love, same with men. For a woman sex is the ultimate display of passion and feeling and desire and emotion and pleasure. It's a great part of their life, same with men. So when a woman thinks in the short-term of having to "teach" a guy how to have sex it takes some of the attractiveness away from the whole experience to them. It's like now she has to take on a motherly role and be in her head instead of letting loose and being free. This isn't even to mention the fact that she will not get her chance to be fully dominated and led by a confident and decisive man.

That DOES NOT mean that you can never get good at sex if you haven't had sex. It just means you may be clumsy for a while and have to work your way up, it will come in time. No worries. You guys need to let this go and let things happen as they are going to happen.

[asab204]

I love you mack and royalty you both are great....also I can think of a few trolls I would LOVE to throw shoes at....but rest assured they are not you guys...I agree with what both of you have said and I never said that it was a top priority just that it was a priority that's all, I don't want anyone getting the wrong idea ofcourse. since many of what I have written on here has been misunderstood and taken the wrong way. as I have stated time and again sex with some one that is of quality to my quality standards should atleast be knowledgable with the female anatomy not promiscuous just knowledgable with the female form...and who has kissed, has sex with ect. atleast once in his life. as to grow with, if he truly were to be my one and only.

[RoyaltyInExile]

That's not for you to judge though, just because her values differ from yours. I just don't understand why some of you guys are making such a big deal of this, why do you even care?



Im sorry but this is an ideal man. Usually it's a virgin ideal. The fact of the matter is that in real life most of the time people who have sex for the first time are not yet in love. They are in passion or lust or sometimes simply bored. Love is something that developes over time. If we are talking about love then yes sex has little to do with developing love. It plays a role but you can have great sex with someone and still never love them. They are two totally different things.

Im just really baffled right now as to why this conversation is still going, I think it is a conversation based out of insecurities. Sex is something that will either happen or it wont. If your not good at it yet, you can get better at it and it's more than physical, it's also psychological and mental.

For a woman when she is thinking about sex she is not necessarily thinking about love, same with men. For a woman sex is the ultimate display of passion and feeling and desire and emotion and pleasure. It's a great part of their life, same with men. So when a woman thinks in the short-term of having to "teach" a guy how to have sex it takes some of the attractiveness away from the whole experience to them. It's like now she has to take on a motherly role and be in her head instead of letting loose and being free. This isn't even to mention the fact that she will not get her chance to be fully dominated and led by a confident and decisive man.

That DOES NOT mean that you can never get good at sex if you haven't had sex. It just means you may be clumsy for a while and have to work your way up, it will come in time. No worries. You guys need to let this go and let things happen as they are going to happen.

Why are you telling us what to do? We'll discuss what we want to. Why did you say you were going to quit and then stay? Looking for some sympathy? Hoping some girls would beg you to stay?

[RoyaltyInExile]

I love you mack and royalty you both are great....also I can think of a few trolls I would LOVE to throw shoes at....but rest assured they are not you guys...I agree with what both of you have said and I never said that it was a top priority just that it was a priority that's all, I don't want anyone getting the wrong idea ofcourse. since many of what I have written on here has been misunderstood and taken the wrong way. as I have stated time and again sex with some one that is of quality to my quality standards should atleast be knowledgable with the female anatomy not promiscuous just knowledgable with the female form...and who has kissed, has sex with ect. atleast once in his life. as to grow with, if he truly were to be my one and only.

Thank you asab. I think I understand your viewpoint a lot better now. I had the idea before that you judged whether a man was good enough in bed to be worthy of staying in a relationship with based on the first time you had sex with him. Clearly you are willing to work with a guy to show him what you like, and as long as he learns, and becomes able to make you satisfied in bed, then there isn't a problem.

That sounds reasonable to me. The only thing I disagree with is your statement that you don't consider a virgin a man. Back when I was 21 years old and still a virgin, if I had read that, it would have really hurt my self esteem. So I wonder if it might be damaging to some of the young guys one this forum. In a way I guess you could say I'm advocating for them because i remember what it felt like way back then when I was still a virgin until I was 22 years old. It felt really embarassing.

I'd like to think that if you were to meet a 22 year old virgin that you loved, you would find it worth it to teach him - maybe even a turn on. You might be surprised at how grateful he'd be and how good he would treat you.

I totally understand that if you tried to show a man what kinds of things you liked and he just didn't learn, that you'd have no choice but to dump him. While I don't think sex is the focal point of a relationship, a satisfying sex life is definitely part of being a happy, content person and you are right to want that.

[Mack Wild]

Why are you telling us what to do? We'll discuss what we want to. Why did you say you were going to quit and then stay? Looking for some sympathy? Hoping some girls would beg you to stay?

Yup that's it man. Gezus -- can't slip ANYTHING past you sherlock. :rolleyes:

Edit:

And as for you asab -- I didn't write this stuff to defend you -- so get over yourself, I just felt the need to try to educate some people and give them an alternative way of looking at things. The "slut" word is a personal pet peeve of mine.

[thach1ef]

By definition a slut is not a good thing. It's not meant to be a positive term to call someone. Hopefully we can all agree on that at least.

So if someone fits the definition of a slut, then well.. if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... it's a duck.

Want to know why a girl slut is bad and a guy slut is good in our society? Because women allow it to happen. If women were to start looking down on guys who are sluts. It wouldn't be an issue. Both sluts would be derogatory.

But right now it's not going to happen, partly in fact that women don't look down upon men who are sluts so why should they change? It's not going to change in our lifetime, because too much in society would need to change for that to happen. It just is what it is.

Personally I'd probably be the minority on this forum in this aspect. But I don't congratulate my buddies for sleeping around and banging as many chicks as possible. I don't find that something to be proud of and think that there are far more important things in life.

But that's just my opinion on it.

[RoyaltyInExile]

By definition a slut is not a good thing. It's not meant to be a positive term to call someone. Hopefully we can all agree on that at least.

So if someone fits the definition of a slut, then well.. if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... it's a duck.

Want to know why a girl slut is bad and a guy slut is good in our society? Because women allow it to happen. If women were to start looking down on guys who are sluts. It wouldn't be an issue. Both sluts would be derogatory.

But right now it's not going to happen, partly in fact that women don't look down upon men who are sluts so why should they change? It's not going to change in our lifetime, because too much in society would need to change for that to happen. It just is what it is.

Personally I'd probably be the minority on this forum in this aspect. But I don't congratulate my buddies for sleeping around and banging as many chicks as possible. I don't find that something to be proud of and think that there are far more important things in life.

But that's just my opinion on it.

Once again I agree. I actually did have a female friend who I was friends with over the internet for 5 years and she really looked down on "man-whores" as I think she called male sluts. But she's the exception. You're right though. Al it would take is for most women to look down upon men who are sluts. There isn't any reason why slut has to be a word that doesn't refer to men also.

Here's an interesting question: If society would hold men up to the same standards as women, would Mystery be considered a slut? What would that do to the pick up business? I see guys on this forum who idolize Mystery so much they even use the same words as he does. They use the word "replicate" where everyone else simply uses the word "reproduce" or the words "have kids." "Replicate" sounds creepy.

Fortunately i still find a lot of value in learning VA. I can discard what I don't like. I don't have to use the words "replicate" and "pairbond." I can take the techniques and theories that work and simply use them for a noble purpose.

[Mack Wild]

Wow. You guys really seem to put sex up on this illustrious shimmering pedestool like it is some sort of mystical magical thing.

So let me get this straight:

Anyone who has what you consider too much sex is a slut man or woman.

People who enjoy sex or see it as a important part of a relationship have messed up values and "might" be slutty.

I mean that's how Im taking this at least, and personally I find it a bit offensive, judgemental and possibly hypocritical -- to be honest.

I mean what exactly are you guys saying? What makes someone a "slut" in your eyes? Is it anyone who has had sex with more than 9.76 different people in their lifetime? Im just curious man.

[asab204]

mack- I wasn't saying you were defending me just saying that you understood what I was saying. GET off your pedistal.

I understand what you guys are saying though about the word "slut" if women would look down upon that word as being more than just a way to describe a woman as being promiscuous, if they applied it to men then the word wouldn't exsist. the words replicate again should be put as to have kids, make babies not to replicate though it does sound creepy.

I find it quite disturbing that we must have this type of discussion as to what a "slut" is why define it? I can if you want I have a dicitonary, but what's it matter to you how many sexual partners women or men have? Mystery has claimed ot have had sex with more than 500 women does that mean he's a slut? or does that mean he has "preselection"?

it depends on who you are and what your standards are for what makes a man or woman a slut if you have had x amount of partners you ar a slut however if you had y amount of partners you are not a slut?

[Mack Wild]

mack- I wasn't saying you were defending me just saying that you understood what I was saying. GET off your pedistal.


When you learn how to spell pedistool I might consider getting off of mine. ;)

slut   
–noun

1. a dirty, slovenly woman.
2. an immoral or dissolute woman; prostitute.

[acesulfamek]

Its actually pedestal but I like yours Mack. I picture someone standing on a tower of stools.

[DaveyFresh"]

Its actually pedestal but I like yours Mack. I picture someone standing on a tower of stools.

I would stand on a tower of stools seems like something fun to do :) -- Truth

[Mack Wild]

Its actually pedestal but I like yours Mack. I picture someone standing on a tower of stools.

I don't care what the dictionary says. I say it's pedistool. It's my story and Im sticking to it. :D

[thach1ef]

Here's an interesting question: If society would hold men up to the same standards as women, would Mystery be considered a slut? What would that do to the pick up business? I see guys on this forum who idolize Mystery so much they even use the same words as he does. They use the word "replicate" where everyone else simply uses the word "reproduce" or the words "have kids." "Replicate" sounds creepy.


Yes he would be considered a slut. But the pick up business can also be looked upon highly by people who don't want to be man whores or sluts. I for instance also take a lot from all of this. It teaches people how to communicate with the opposite sex, how to make yourself noticeable and how to feel more comfortable in your own skin. These are things that anyone can look upon as positive.

Wow. You guys really seem to put sex up on this illustrious shimmering pedestool like it is some sort of mystical magical thing.

So let me get this straight:

Anyone who has what you consider too much sex is a slut man or woman.

People who enjoy sex or see it as a important part of a relationship have messed up values and "might" be slutty.

I mean that's how Im taking this at least, and personally I find it a bit offensive, judgemental and possibly hypocritical -- to be honest.

I mean what exactly are you guys saying? What makes someone a "slut" in your eyes? Is it anyone who has had sex with more than 9.76 different people in their lifetime? Im just curious man.

Mack I think you assume way too much. No one ever said people who have a lot of sex are sluts. No one ever said there is such a thing as too much sex. Where are you getting this from?

Mystery has claimed ot have had sex with more than 500 women does that mean he's a slut? or does that mean he has "preselection"?

it depends on who you are and what your standards are for what makes a man or woman a slut if you have had x amount of partners you ar a slut however if you had y amount of partners you are not a slut?

Preselection is ridiculous. It's a made up concept that people love to gobble up. Saying that someone is preselected to have sex with every women in the world isn't a defense. It's an excuse.

As well. You guys love to try and put numbers on this slut thing. You can't do this. A slut is more about attitude and process rather than partners.

If I'm 14 and had sex with 100 people and if I'm 90 and had sex with a 100 people. It's a whole lot different. Stop trying to make a mathematical formula out of this.

When you learn how to spell pedistool I might consider getting off of mine. ;)

slut   
–noun

1. a dirty, slovenly woman.
2. an immoral or dissolute woman; prostitute.

Mack. It's pedestal not pedistool. Rule #1 of being a smartass is that you have to be smart first.

[Mack Wild]

Mack. It's pedestal not pedistool. Rule #1 of being a smartass is that you have to be smart first.

Well I like pedistool better.

Anyways the point your making about slut and numbers is the same point I was trying to make. People are throwing around judgements and the word slut in this thread and my point was basically that it's ridiculas. Ever since Asab mentioned that sex is a priority and that bad sex is a problem -- guys have been coming on here with some very judgemental behaviors towards sex in general. Sex is a part of life, it's something two people share in the moment with eachother as a way to bond. As a man and especially as a man on a pickup forum I just think it's rather limiting to have judgemental and limiting beliefs regarding sex. It certainly won't help your relationships with women at all, they have enough societal judgement to deal with then to have to feel judged by the very guys who are interested in them.

Im not saying that just because your on this board that it means you must view sex favorably but the difference between just having a bunch of friends and having enough lovers to finally know what you want and to find the perfect person for you tends to be relationships that are sexual.

That's my 2 cents. No one has to agree with me but I definately think guys who have some sort of judgement towards sex need to get that worked out in order to truely evolve and have a healthy relationship with a woman.

[thach1ef]

Well I like pedistool better.

Anyways the point your making about slut and numbers is the same point I was trying to make. People are throwing around judgements and the word slut in this thread and my point was basically that it's ridiculas. Ever since Asab mentioned that sex is a priority and that bad sex is a problem -- guys have been coming on here with some very judgemental behaviors towards sex in general. Sex is a part of life, it's something two people share in the moment with eachother as a way to bond. As a man and especially as a man on a pickup forum I just think it's rather limiting to have judgemental and limiting beliefs regarding sex.

Im not saying that just because your on this board that it means you must view sex favorably but the difference between just having a bunch of friends and having enough lovers to finally know what you want and to find the perfect person for you tends to be relationships that are sexual.

That's my 2 cents. No one has to agree with me but I definately think guys who have some sort of judgement towards sex need to get that worked out in order to evolve.

But Mack, no one is saying sex isn't a part of life and important. It's when sex trumps everything else. That's when there are problems.

Like I've said before. Everyone likes sex. It feels good. It's sex!

Asab is backtracking a bit and has still yet to clarify on the comments made which sparked this discussion.

It's gone from 1 end of the spectrum to the other.

The reason this convo got started was because there was a comment made that even if a guy had 9 out of 10 of the traits looked highly upon. If he wasn't good in bed, he would be gone.

I tried to drill into that to find out how long this good in bed time frame was. Is it the first time? The 5th time? After 5 months? It all depends.

But in any of those time frames, the fact of the matter is. That comment meant that sex was valued more highly than the other 9 characteristics. In fact it meant that sex was more important than the other 9 characteristics COMBINED.

THATS where the problem is

[Tay Tay]

Sex isn't that important to me. You're saying it's one out of ten things? Well it'd be at #10 in my book.

[thach1ef]

Sex isn't that important to me. You're saying it's one out of ten things? Well it'd be at #10 in my book.

Tay Tay, I'm on the same page as you. Sex was listed as one of 10 or so things in the first post, which is how this started.

Personally sex would be pretty far down the list of things that I look for in a person.

I know that if sex were to ever be an issue that I know enough to remedy it and improve it with my partner rather than just throw that person to the curb.

[Mack Wild]

The reason this convo got started was because raits looked highly upon. If he wasn't good in bed, he would be gone.



Ok.

This is the last thing I am going to say on this, because I feel I have had my say and anything further is just trying to shove my beliefs down your throats and I don't want to come off that way. Im just trying to help, that's all.

Anyways the thread started off with the topic of the perfect man. Truth is there is no perfect man or woman, they don't exist. That's what experience will teach you. Eventually though you find the things that are most important to you and know what you want, and eventually find it.

This thread is a theory though, it's the illustrious PERFECT person. Would you not agree that if you were to name the perfect woman that she would be awesome in bed?? If she wasn't awesome in bed along with everything else woudln't she be unperfect and not perfect??

Furthermore I will tell you right now without sugarcoating this. I have hooked up with my fair share of women. A lot of the women I have hooked up with i met at bars or clubs or parties. There have been times where I have awesome and great sex with women and there have been flops too. Maybe I drank too much, maybe i was really tired, maybe i wasn't as attracted to the girl as I thought I was or there wasn't enough connection or chemistry or I didn't know her well enough. Who knows. My point is I have hooked up with girls and had great sex with them and then I have hooked up with girls and had not so great sex with them.

It is definately true that if the sex isn't too good, it can be a problem. It's just a fact of life. I think that's what Decibel was trying to say too. He was saying if your insecure that this may be an issue for you, get it taken care of. Have I had women still interested in me after a subpar 1st performance? Sure. If you want to avoid that pitfall though, get it handled.

Everyone at one time or another was a virgin. I have had my fair share of lackluster performances. My first couple tries were mostly jokes. My third time i was still basically a virgin. I read up on some things though and I learned how to get in touch with my energy and her energy and really make it zen like. I got in touch with my animal core too. The third time was fucking amazing and I had a relationship where the girls biggest compliment to her friends about me was how good I was in bed. I blew her away. So my point is not to sweat the small stuff. If your not good at sex you don't need a woman to train you. You just need some experience and some knowledge. Good sex is not overly complicated and a lot of it is instinctual.

[Tay Tay]

Tay Tay, I'm on the same page as you. Sex was listed as one of 10 or so things in the first post, which is how this started.

Personally sex would be pretty far down the list of things that I look for in a person.

I know that if sex were to ever be an issue that I know enough to remedy it and improve it with my partner rather than just throw that person to the curb.

I agree with alot of things you write. So it kinda confused me when I came in here and saw you arguing with Mack. He's pretty smart too

[thach1ef]

Ok.

This is the last thing I am going to say on this, because I feel I have had my say and anything further is just trying to shove my beliefs down your throats and I don't want to come off that way. Im just trying to help, that's all.

Anyways the thread started off with the topic of the perfect man. Truth is there is no perfect man or woman, they don't exist. That's what experience will teach you. Eventually though you find the things that are most important to you and know what you want, and eventually find it.

This thread is a theory though, it's the illustrious PERFECT person. Would you not agree that if you were to name the perfect woman that she would be awesome in bed?? If she wasn't awesome in bed along with everything else woudln't she be unperfect and not perfect??

Don't mistake the title of the thread with the contents Mack.

Yes, my perfect women would be amazing in bed. But that's not the context of the comment made.


Furthermore I will tell you right now without sugarcoating this. I have hooked up with my fair share of women. A lot of the women I have hooked up with i met at bars or clubs or parties. There have been times where I have awesome and great sex with women and there have been flops too. Maybe I drank too much, maybe i was really tired, maybe i wasn't as attracted to the girl as I thought I was or there wasn't enough connection or chemistry or I didn't know her well enough. Who knows. My point is I have hooked up with girls and had great sex with them and then I have hooked up with girls and had not so great sex with them.

It is true that if the sex isn't too good, it can be a problem. It's just a fact of life. I think that's what Decibel was trying to say too. He was saying if your insecure that this may be an issue for you, get it taken care of.

Everyone at one time or another was a virgin. I have had my fair share of lackluster performances. My first couple tries were mostly jokes. My third time i was still basically a virgin. I read up on some things though and I learned how to get in touch with my energy and her energy and really make it zen like. I got in touch with my animal core too. The third time was fucking amazing and I had a relationship where the girls biggest compliment to her friends about me was how good I was in bed. I blew her away. So my point is not to sweat the small stuff. If your not good at sex you don't need a woman to train you. You just need some experience and some knowledge.

Again, you're off track here. No one is talking about virgins. No one is talking about guys who don't want to learn. No one is talking about guys who are absolutely CLUELESS about sex. No one is talking about all these details you are going into.

It's a lot more simple than you are making it out to be.

And for the record, once more. I'm not talking about myself. I haven't had any issues with sex in my relationships except when the girl wasn't experienced.

We're going in circles here.

[Mack Wild]

I agree with alot of things you write. So it kinda confused me when I came in here and saw you arguing with Mack. He's pretty smart too

Thank you Tay Tay. Honestly I would think you would hate me because we are so different it seems. Im glad you can see the value in my posts.

[thach1ef]

I agree with alot of things you write. So it kinda confused me when I came in here and saw you arguing with Mack. He's pretty smart too

Yeah, we just have 2 different points of view. But I'm having a hard time because he and asab are not stating clearly their point of view on the same subject. They are just throwing words out there and misdirecting to a different subject.

My thoughts clear, plain and simple.

Sex is not a top priority for me in my relationships and I would NOT get rid of someone that had a majority of the qualities I look for in a woman if they were not good in bed, as long as they were willing to learn/experiment etc.

[Tay Tay]

Mack- Silly boy I don't hate anybody (Except for Dwight and he's gone). I'm pretty easy to get along with. I like talking to people, debating our views, and learning from others. To me it's what makes the world go round:)

thach1ef- I think what they are trying to say is if they did try to teach them and experiment with them but they still didn't get better THEN they would let them go. I'm not sure of that's what they meant but that's what I'm getting out of it

[Mack Wild]

My thoughts clear, plain and simple.

Sex is not a top priority for me in my relationships and I would NOT get rid of someone that had a majority of the qualities I look for in a woman if they were not good in bed, as long as they were willing to learn/experiment etc.

I don't think anyone judges you for that man. Good for you. I would NOT get rid of someone for that either. I have had girls I had to convert before who I was very patient with.

My posts are general posts towards the underlying subject of judgement when it comes to sex. They arn't directed towards anyone in particular even if it seems that way.

If there is any point I have directed towards the people in this thread besides my general view on things that I feel can help towards mens overall attitude on sex, its simply that just as I don't judge you for your opinion, I don't think you should judge others for THEIR opinion.

I got things to do. You guys take care.

Oh and Tay Tay -- do not EVER call me a "silly boy" again. lol.

[thach1ef]

Mack- Silly boy I don't hate anybody (Except for Dwight and he's gone). I'm pretty easy to get along with. I like talking to people, debating our views, and learning from others. To me it's what makes the world go round:)

thach1ef- I think what they are trying to say is if they did try to teach them and experiment with them but they still didn't get better THEN they would let them go. I'm not sure of that's what they meant but that's what I'm getting out of it

Fair enough, if that's what they are actually saying. But it has yet to be conveyed in a clear and concise manner. I'm big on communication and I don't like to assume, whether for good or bad. So I tend to wait until someone makes their point clear before trying to take anything from it.

P.S - what happened to Dwight? I've only been here a week or so and remember reading a lot of posts from him and about him. This was recent wasn't it?

[thach1ef]

I don't think anyone judges you for that man. Good for you. I would NOT get rid of someone for that either. I have had girls I had to convert before who I was very patient with.

My posts are general posts towards the underlying subject of judgement when it comes to sex. They arn't directed towards anyone in particular even if it seems that way.

If there is any point I have directed towards the people in this thread besides my general view on things that I feel can help towards mens overall attitude on sex, its simply that just as I don't judge you for your opinion, I don't think you should judge others for THEIR opinion.

I got things to do. You guys take care.

Oh and Tay Tay -- do not EVER call me a "silly boy" again. lol.

Judgment is a natural thing, just like sex though. Judgment is passed every single minute of your life. Judgment is part of what makes us us.

Just because someone might be getting judged harshly on a topic doesn't mean we exclude that topic from being judged anymore.

For instance. Sluts don't want to be called sluts, right? Well rapists don't want to be called rapists either. Or murderers don't want to be called murderers. Or less extreme, cheap people don't want to be called cheap. Fat people don't want to be called fat. Racists don't want to be called racists.

But they are. They will be. They will continue to be. What you do and how you live your life is a reflection upon you. You make choices and based on your choices you are judged.

Sex isn't some magical category that is excluded from this.

[Tay Tay]

Fair enough, if that's what they are actually saying. But it has yet to be conveyed in a clear and concise manner. I'm big on communication and I don't like to assume, whether for good or bad. So I tend to wait until someone makes their point clear before trying to take anything from it.

P.S - what happened to Dwight? I've only been here a week or so and remember reading a lot of posts from him and about him. This was recent wasn't it?

He was banned recently for something. You didn't miss anything he was rude and cocky

[Sincerelee]

You ain’t shit, and you probably never will be
That's good, because when I was a kid, and adults asked me what I wanted to be, "I wanna be shit!" never crossed my mind. And, I still don't want to be shit. And, I especially don't want to be a big shit.

He’s Tall
(Yeah I want a man that can tower over me. It makes me feel protected.)
You want shit and you want it piled how high?
He’s Funny
(A sense of humor is a must. I want a man that can make me laugh, tease me, be sarcastic and spark a grin on my lips even when I’m feeling extra bitchy!)
Dancing monkey syndrome. You'll need to go look somewhere else. I am funny when I want to be, and that is usually all the time. Just don't ask me to be serious as well. I control the mood emitter on my life. I have for many years, and I am the best at controlling it properly.
He’s Affectionate
(I can handle it if you don’t want to make out with me in public, but I need a man who is going to curl up in bed with me, watch stupid television, kiss me at random moments, touch me just because he wants to be close to me!!)
If you want to watch "Kate & Leopold", invite your sore-friends. I only watched it that one time because it fed your selfish need so I could satisfy mine. If you make me watch it again, I'll be hitting on your brother instead of you. At least he watches football!
He’s Driven
If he isn't, will you drive him away by being extra bitchy?
He’s a Good Driver
(This is a must. If a man can’t handle a car well, chances are he isn’t going to handle me well. So if you suck at driving… Pssshhhh. Im not even trying to go on a second date!!!)
I can change oil, fill the tank and drive aggressively, but I don't do trannies!
He’s Not A Bible Thumper
(I’m an atheist so I need a man that is going to be okay with that, and also someone who isn’t going to shove the idea of god down my throat during breakfast, lunch and dinner. You got your faith? That’s cool but if your someone who bases their entire life on the good book and following all those rules… keep it moving!)
I kept moving when you mentioned you planned on being extra bitchy.
He likes animals
(If you don’t like my animals, I wont like you. Point Blank!)
I love them. Roasted, fried, baked, broiled...whatever you plan on cooking.
He can work it out.
(ENOUGH SAID)
No man can work it up, let out around an extra bitchy woman.
He’s TALL, DARK & HANDSOME.
(Hey, that’s my type! Sorry!)
Sorry, you're not Shaq's type.
He’s Proud & Secure
(If you’re a little whiney bitch I cant mess with you!! I want a man that is confident in himself, keeps his head up, you know?)
Date a Marine. Unfortunately. being in a foxhole converts many, so you have a choice to make. Also, since the are the Few, and are in high demand, I doubt you'll have a chance. So settle for something less or go solo with your batteried friend.

[Mack Wild]

Judgment is a natural thing, just like sex though. Judgment is passed every single minute of your life. Judgment is part of what makes us us.

Just because someone might be getting judged harshly on a topic doesn't mean we exclude that topic from being judged anymore.

For instance. Sluts don't want to be called sluts, right? Well rapists don't want to be called rapists either. Or murderers don't want to be called murderers. Or less extreme, cheap people don't want to be called cheap. Fat people don't want to be called fat. Racists don't want to be called racists.

But they are. They will be. They will continue to be. What you do and how you live your life is a reflection upon you. You make choices and based on your choices you are judged.

Sex isn't some magical category that is excluded from this.

Well that's fine man. If you want to walk through life judging women for their sexual preferences, ideals, values and then comparing it to rapists and murderers -- that's great. Just don't be surprised when they end up overlooking you for other people who have less issues around sex, who they can let go with. The girl simply stated her opinion, that's all she did. No you won't likely hear that coming from a girl in real life, but that's because of people who are judgemental. You were just getting the non-sugarcoated version of things.

Im done.

[thach1ef]

Well that's fine man. If you want to walk through life judging women for their sexual preferences, ideals, values and then comparing it to rapists and murderers -- that's great. Just don't be surprised when they end up overlooking you for other people who have less issues around sex, who they can let go with. The girl simply stated her opinion, that's all she did. No you won't likely hear that coming from a girl in real life, but that's because of people who are judgemental. You were just getting the non-sugarcoated version of things.

Im done.

I see what you did there. I gave you analogies both extreme and non extreme and you focused directly on the extreme ones to try and validate your point.

Sorry, I see right through it.

Face it. Like I explained, people are judged every single minute of their lives based on their choices they make.

Sex is not exempt.

[Tay Tay]

So .....Anyways the first thing that attracts me to a man is eyes. So my perfect man has to have perfect eyes

[azazels_wolf]

Sincerelee:

This isn't a joke thread, and LL's list was meant to be discussed in a mature manner. If you can't contribute anything constructive to the discussion, then please don't post here.

[Amber Nectar]

Oh BOY! I concure! I actually like men that have been around the block. It's just better that way.....

I don't want to train little boys. Sorry fellas

[Sincerelee]

I'm sorrry I did not take this thread as serious, but it seemed like a joke because it was so insulting and contradictory. My answers are genuine. My resonses are exactly what I would say if I was told, "These are the things my perfect guy needs." The humor in my responses is because that is how I respond when someone is upsetting me.

One of the most insulting was the comment about no Bible thumpers. In this society, Christians are told to be tolerant of others opinions and if we ever say we won't associate with any group for any reason, we are labelled bigots, and likened to nazis and KKK. Yet, "I don't like Christians," is acceptable? She doesn't mention Koran thumpers, or Vedas thumpers.

Since this thread isn't one I agree with, I'll stay out of it.

For the record, I have dated several women who are of other and no religion. Religion is not a problem if they are respectful of my belief system, because I respect their right to their belief system.

[thach1ef]

Oh BOY! I concure! I actually like men that have been around the block. It's just better that way.....

I don't want to train little boys. Sorry fellas

Interesting. I'm curious to see if this is a typical feeling that women have or not. But it's so hard to find out for sure.

Sure I could go ask females IRL but are they going to tell the truth?

You have the anonymity here so you're able to be more honest in your opinions, however I do question whether it has to do with your mindset. ie. Most women aren't coming to a PUA site to discuss, so you're a rare breed.

Kinda a catch 22 on this one.

[DaveyFresh"]

Oh BOY! I concure! I actually like men that have been around the block. It's just better that way.....

I don't want to train little boys. Sorry fellas

I always thought sex was self explanatory... you work out and go in and out... I can't believe people fail at such a simple task LMAO -- Truth

[thach1ef]

I always thought sex was self explanatory... you work out and go in and out... I can't believe people fail at such a simple task LMAO -- Truth

Ehh, it's not as simple as "going in and out" haha. There's a lot to sex and I think the majority of guys fail because they are selfish, not because it's difficult.

[Sincerelee]

Everyone is selfish. Even the person whose only desire is to please their partner will eventually get tired of that and want to be pleased.

For really good sex, each person is to seek only their partners pleasure, and trust their partner to do the same for them. It rarely works that way with one night stands. It sometimes works with one nighters with close friends. FBs might just because they know their FB will do them good.

[Amber Nectar]

When I was younger, I didn't want a man that was around....you get older, wiser, you know what you like, what they like, then you prefer a man whose been around a few......

One boyfriend had been with over 200
Another boyfriend under 50

I loved the sex from both partners.

[RoyaltyInExile]

Oh BOY! I concure! I actually like men that have been around the block. It's just better that way.....

I don't want to train little boys. Sorry fellas

Why be sorry about it? Be proud of the values you hold and what you believe to be important in life.

So far all talk about sex hasn't included feelings of love and how they affect people's decisions. What would you do if you were faced with the situation of being in love with a guy who hadn't had much sexual experience? Would training him, as you call it, be something you would do in order to continue and improve your relationship with him? Or is it impossible for you to fall in love with a man before having sex with him?

[thach1ef]

When I was younger, I didn't want a man that was around....you get older, wiser, you know what you like, what they like, then you prefer a man whose been around a few......

One boyfriend had been with over 200
Another boyfriend under 50

I loved the sex from both partners.

Question for you Amber.

If you love the sex from both, why do you prefer the boyfriend with over 200 partners?

[thach1ef]

Why be sorry about it? Be proud of the values you hold and what you believe to be important in life.

So far all talk about sex hasn't included feelings of love and how they affect people's decisions. What would you do if you were faced with the situation of being in love with a guy who hadn't had much sexual experience? Would training him, as you call it, be something you would do in order to continue and improve your relationship with him? Or is it impossible for you to fall in love with a man before having sex with him?

Also realizing this whole training thing we are talking about would probably take a week or so lol. It's really not this 2 year long class some people like to make it out to be

[RoyaltyInExile]

Also realizing this whole training thing we are talking about would probably take a week or so lol. It's really not this 2 year long class some people like to make it out to be

It can even be fun!

When I was 22 I lost my virginity to a 34 year old woman, and she considered it a turn on to initiate me into sex. I learned fast and we both enjoyed it.

[thach1ef]

Exactly, and whether or not the guys here like to believe it. They all go through their own training with every women on their first night/2nd night. You all learn what she likes and what she doesn't. Sometimes you learn faster, sometimes slower. Depends on a combination of you, her and how freaky she is.

[Gmand38]

That must be alot more common than I thought Royalty...you, me, and Truth have all apparently reported nearly the exact same experiences.

[Amber Nectar]

thach1ef,

I think after a person sleeps with a few people, reads some books on women's anatomy, and studies PUA, they will find how to make us wet, and I'm sure if the guys has been with a handful, he'll do just fine... ;)

I never prefered the man that slept with 200, I think when you reach 50, you just know what you're doing. Which I enjoy those types of men. :)

[thach1ef]

thach1ef,

I think after a person sleeps with a few people, reads some books on women's anatomy, and studies PUA, they will find how to make us wet, and I'm sure if the guys has been with a handful, he'll do just fine... ;)

I never prefered the man that slept with 200, I think when you reach 50, you just know what you're doing. Which I enjoy those types of men. :)

Ok which brings me to the question, then why did you say you prefer your man to have been around the block? Aren't those 2 statements kinda contradictory?

[Amber Nectar]

No, I prefer men that have been around. I was just stating for some of the younger folks.

[thach1ef]

No, I prefer men that have been around. I was just stating for some of the younger folks.

Ok that's cool. I'm just curious why? You said that the guy who wasn't "around the block" did just fine compared to the guy who slept with over 200 women...

I just don't understand I guess.

[RoyaltyInExile]

thach1ef,

I think after a person sleeps with a few people, reads some books on women's anatomy, and studies PUA, they will find how to make us wet, and I'm sure if the guys has been with a handful, he'll do just fine... ;)

I never prefered the man that slept with 200, I think when you reach 50, you just know what you're doing. Which I enjoy those types of men. :)

If you were in love with a guy who hadn't "been around the block", would you find it worth it if you had to teach him how to be good in bed?

[Gmand38]

What the hell is so confusing chief.

I think she's saying they've both "been around the block". 50 partners isnt exactly nothing.

But once they've got some experience and they know what they're doing its pretty much all good.

She just doesnt wanna clumsily devirginize anybody.

[thach1ef]

I think she's saying they've both "been around the block". 50 partners isnt exactly nothing.


That's what I was looking for, if that's truly what she was saying. I figured the over 200 vs the under 50 was a big enough range that she was saying 1 was around the block and 1 wasn't.

[Gmand38]

As for Royalty's question.... I doubt she would ever find herself in the position of being "in love" with someone with whom she wasnt already comfortable sexually.

[RoyaltyInExile]

As for Royalty's question.... I doubt she would ever find herself in the position of being "in love" with someone with whom she wasnt already comfortable sexually.

If that's true that would be very sad. That would be a sign of a profoundly damaged person, most likely one who had experienced early childhood trauma.

[Decibel]

If that's true that would be very sad. That would be a sign of a profoundly damaged person, most likely one who had experienced early childhood trauma.

Wow. Just...wow.

[DaveyFresh"]

Wow. Just...wow.

Man... these is a Hell of alot of work to get this place on track lol right Deci. -- Truth

[Amber Nectar]

You guys are too funny. ;) Listen, all the men my age aren't virgins for starters….. Secondly, I think the last time I fell in love with someone who I didn't sleep with, I was like uh...13? So, really, if I sleep with them, that's usually when our bonding chemicals make us fall in love. Now this isn't all the time, I've had one night stands....and did not fall in love, I can assure you that.

To answer the questions, yes, I need to sleep with the person to truly fall in love. The men I've been with over the past 10 years have been sexually experienced, and I prefer it that way. Have a good day boys!

[Sincerelee]

Amber, then you and I would never be a couple.

[RoyaltyInExile]

You guys are too funny. ;) Listen, all the men my age aren't virgins for starters….. Secondly, I think the last time I fell in love with someone who I didn't sleep with, I was like uh...13? So, really, if I sleep with them, that's usually when our bonding chemicals make us fall in love. Now this isn't all the time, I've had one night stands....and did not fall in love, I can assure you that.

To answer the questions, yes, I need to sleep with the person to truly fall in love. The men I've been with over the past 10 years have been sexually experienced, and I prefer it that way. Have a good day boys!

So you were already having sex by 13 or 14? Did your parents know, or even care? No children of mine are going to be having sex at 13 or 14 years old.

Why is it that every generation has lower moral standards than the generation before it? Kids are getting high on drugs, having sex at ages where they can't make responsible choices, they've even got to have metal detectors in schools now so some kid doesn't bring a gun to school and start killing everyone. I blame the parents. Where are they when all this is going on? Don't they have the ability to properly raise kids anymore and instill some basic values in them? Our society is like ancient Rome - rotting from the inside.

[Mack Wild]

So you were already having sex by 13 or 14? Did your parents know, or even care? No children of mine are going to be having sex at 13 or 14 years old.

Why is it that every generation has lower moral standards than the generation before it? Kids are getting high on drugs, having sex at ages where they can't make responsible choices, they've even got to have metal detectors in schools now so some kid doesn't bring a gun to school and start killing everyone. I blame the parents. Where are they when all this is going on? Don't they have the ability to properly raise kids anymore and instill some basic values in them? Our society is like ancient Rome - rotting from the inside.

When is it that this place turned from a forum on pickup to a religious moral ethic based spiritual ground anyways?

I notice more and more of these posts.

I can't bitch too much because I have a few of these in my past. I mean I think pickup should be more than sex. I think it's about self improvement, finding the right person and all of that. I've made countless posts against manipulation, countless posts in support of inner game, and made it perfectly clear that if your in this just to have sex then your never going to get anywhere.

But lately I notice a lot of really limiting AFC mindsets and I just am not really sure what in the hell is going on around here. It's like suddenly guys are on a pickup forum judging people who have sex and who are of value enough to explore sexual fantasies? Why suddenly all the preaching? Is it to appeal to the girls or something??

Or is it more that there is a new audience drawn in by the show who is green? I don't know, but Im getting sick of it. There's a line man. This place is obviously not about ethics and morals, if you want your share of that go to church or check out the Oprah show. I mean SERIOUSLY.

I mean why even SAY something like that to someone?

There are plenty of forums and places for you to go where you can preach about morals and ethics and marriage and everyone will love you for it. This isn't the place. Rule 1 on fastseduction and most other pickup forums is we dont want to hear what you think is right or wrong or be judged. We're here to improve our skillset and to improve ourselves not to hear your thoughts on morality.

[RoyaltyInExile]

This place is obviously not about ethics and morals

I like that. I really like that so I'm going to leave your words up there, giving you full credit of course.

So much for Mystery's famous quote "THIS IS ABOUT BUILDING A LIFE!" I really thought that this place was going to be about that. Or how about "Don't just be yourself; BE YOUR BEST SELF"! Kind of hard to do without ethics and morals isn't it?

By the way, Mack, I'm not religious; I'm an atheist. All one needs to gain a thorough understanding of ethics and morals is to have a sound philosophy. I suggest the philosophy of Objectivism.

[Mack Wild]

I like that. I really like that so I'm going to leave your words up there, giving you full credit of course.

So much for Mystery's famous quote "THIS IS ABOUT BUILDING A LIFE!" I really thought that this place was going to be about that. Or how about "Don't just be yourself; BE YOUR BEST SELF"! Kind of hard to do without ethics and morals isn't it?

THeres a difference between striving to build a life and being your best self and going around on this forum shoving your ethics, morals, and beliefs down other peoples throats. GET OVER YOURSELF. If your outlook on life is so great then why did you have to find this place in the first place, and why did you have to pay 5000 dollars for a bootcamp?? I mean seriously dude.

[RoyaltyInExile]

THeres a difference between striving to build a life and being your best self and going around on this forum shoving your ethics, morals, and beliefs down other peoples throats. GET OVER YOURSELF. If your outlook on life is so great then why did you have to find this place in the first place, and why did you have to pay 5000 dollars for a bootcamp?? I mean seriously dude.

I have never been to a bootcamp.

I found this place out of my own interest in learning more about it and to find out if it holds any value for me.

How does one "get over" oneself? It doesn't make sense.

Mack, don't you see your hypocrisy in asking me to leave you alone and not debate any further on the thread that you started about a weird sexual idea, which I believe you called it, and now trolling me and trying to start an argument with me? Do you want to argue with me or not? Make up your mind. I agreed to not say anything further in your thread that I mentioned, but if you want me to ignore you, then don't start a debate with me, one you'll inevitably lose. Remember, I didn't come to this thread looking for you or to respond to your posts. I left the other thread because it seemed pointless for us to continue debating each other. Why then do you persist in following me and responding to my posts which aren't even directed at you specifically? I'm sure if you think about this you will see the hypocrisy in your actions.

[Mack Wild]

I have never been to a bootcamp.

I found this place out of my own interest in learning more about it and to find out if it holds any value for me.

How does one "get over" oneself? It doesn't make sense.

Now your just blatently lying man. Why? Do you think I don't notice the VIP lounge member thing that you have up by your name when you post? Do you NOT notice that?

C'mon bro.

Manipulation on an internet forum is not a path to ANYWHERE.

Smarten up.

[DaveyFresh"]

I have never been to a bootcamp.

I found this place out of my own interest in learning more about it and to find out if it holds any value for me.

How does one "get over" oneself? It doesn't make sense.

Mack, don't you see your hypocrisy in asking me to leave you alone and not debate any further on the thread that you started about a weird sexual idea, which I believe you called it, and now trolling me and trying to start an argument with me? Do you want to argue with me or not? Make up your mind. I agreed to not say anything further in your thread that I mentioned, but if you want me to ignore you, then don't start a debate with me, one you'll inevitably lose. Remember, I didn't come to this thread looking for you or to respond to your posts. I left the other thread because it seemed pointless for us to continue debating each other. Why then do you persist in following me and responding to my posts which aren't even directed at you specifically? I'm sure if you think about this you will see the hypocrisy in your actions.

You will both lose if you continue fighting... -- truth

[Mack Wild]

Im not fighting. Im just tired of all the judgement around here all of the sudden. It never use to be this way.

Later

[RoyaltyInExile]

Now your just blatently lying man. Why? Do you think I don't notice the VIP lounge member thing that you have up by your name when you post? Do you NOT notice that?

C'mon bro.

Manipulation on an internet forum is not a path to ANYWHERE.

Smarten up.

You're lying when you say I'm lying. You're slandering my character and I won't allow you to continue to do so. I repeat, I have never been to a bootcamp.

Why did you follow me to this thread? Of all the places to go on this forum, you chose to come to the next place I posted after I left the last thread I posted on, a thread you created and complained I was ruining. You even accused me of trolling you. Well, when I came to this thread to post, you weren't on this thread and I didn't reply to anything you posted. I deliberately avoided you for the sake of having a harmonious forum.

I went my own way and left the thread you created. I did my part to avoid you. You were foolish to come looking for me immediately after I did my part to avoid you.

Now you've come to this thread looking for me and trying to antagonize me by slandering my character among other things. Clearly you came to this thread to argue with me. I was avoiding you but if you insist on trolling me and going to every thread where I post and complain about my posts, make up lies about me, and so on, I will be forced to take action. Just leave this alone Mack, this is no good for you. Stop looking for trouble before you get yourself into some trouble that you might not get out of so easily as the last time you were in trouble on this forum.

[Mack Wild]

You're lying when you say I'm lying. You're slandering my character and I won't allow you to continue to do so. I repeat, I have never been to a bootcamp.

Why did you follow me to this thread? Of all the places to go on this forum, you chose to come to the next place I posted after I left the last thread I posted on, a thread you created and complained I was ruining. You even accused me of trolling you. Well, when I came to this thread to post, you weren't on this thread and I didn't reply to anything you posted. I deliberately avoided you for the sake of having a harmonious forum.

I went my own way and left the thread you created. I did my part to avoid you. You were foolish to come looking for me immediately after I did my part to avoid you.

Now you've come to this thread looking for me and trying to antagonize me by slandering my character among other things. Clearly you came to this thread to argue with me. I was avoiding you but if you insist on trolling me and going to every thread where I post and complain about my posts, make up lies about me, and so on, I will be forced to take action. Just leave this alone Mack, this is no good for you. Stop looking for trouble before you get yourself into some trouble that you might not get out of so easily as the last time you were in trouble on this forum.

Nope I was just making a simple point about shoving things down peoples throats and judgement.

AS for the bootcamp thing, it's plain for everyone to see your a part of the VIP lounge, it says it right under your name man. The only way you can be a part of that is if you take a bootcamp. Sorry to point that out but it's true. Not sure why your lying but then again Im not going to worry about it.

Not saying it's bad to take a bootcamp, just saying that obviously your not perfect broseph.

Peace.

[DaveyFresh"]

You're lying when you say I'm lying. You're slandering my character and I won't allow you to continue to do so. I repeat, I have never been to a bootcamp.

Why did you follow me to this thread? Of all the places to go on this forum, you chose to come to the next place I posted after I left the last thread I posted on, a thread you created and complained I was ruining. You even accused me of trolling you. Well, when I came to this thread to post, you weren't on this thread and I didn't reply to anything you posted. I deliberately avoided you for the sake of having a harmonious forum.

I went my own way and left the thread you created. I did my part to avoid you. You were foolish to come looking for me immediately after I did my part to avoid you.

Now you've come to this thread looking for me and trying to antagonize me by slandering my character among other things. Clearly you came to this thread to argue with me. I was avoiding you but if you insist on trolling me and going to every thread where I post and complain about my posts, make up lies about me, and so on, I will be forced to take action. Just leave this alone Mack, this is no good for you. Stop looking for trouble before you get yourself into some trouble that you might not get out of so easily as the last time you were in trouble on this forum.

Royalty and Mack I expected more from the both of you...

Royalty again just don't reply and this topic will die... you said in a post that you hold yourself to High standards... which you are not doing but fighting with Mack... I should not be saying this a second time... but be aware that you are contributing 50% to this argument... we had talks about making this forum better...

Mack I see the point... you feel attacked for your personal beliefs.. you feel your being judged for how you live.. if that is the case nobody has a right to say that here... who knows how Royalty has a VIP lounge membership title.... but for the sake I suggest you two stop throwing around "Your Lying" "No your Lying" and actively work to improve the quality of posts.

I am not a moderator... but I am still trying to help before BOTH OF YOU get into trouble... --Truth