Sticking Point: A3

[10Pin]

OK, I am literally just back from another night in the field with my wingman, getting this sober sarging nailed down properly.

I realised a major sticking point tonight.

In the space of about 3 hours I opened about 10 sets. I had some great interactions.

Tonight I finally opened 9's and 10's too.

The thing I noticed, much to my surprise was I was getting ridiculous kino, initiated by them - the 9's and 10's who I always thought were out of my league!

Standard opener on the girls tonight was:

'HEY'

<pause>

...they turn around...

'bla bla bla'

It was, if I may term it so, the 'HEY' opener. Simple, and effective.

I asked one 10 'HEY...where's good to go tonight? It's my first holiday since I started my new job and I want to have a great night.'

Literally in 25 seconds she had her arm wrapped around my neck. I shrugged it off and she put it back on.

Same again later on. I'm walking through the bar and a 9 and I make eye-contact. I hold it for a little longer then say to her:

'HEY...what the fuck are you trying to do? Burn holes in my eyes like Cyclops from the fucking X Men??'

She says, 'No, I was trying to see if you had any chewing gum.'

[er....right]

She runs her hand over my jeans pockets, around my fucking crotch to see if I've got any gum.

-This is, like 30 seconds in.-

I tell her I do have some gum, I will give her a stick if she gives me a swig of her drink. I ask what it is. She says 'Lemonade', I neg her and tell her that she's no fun.

With both of these girls, probably the hottest girls I've approached since sarging sober, I had my 3 IOI's inside of two minutes. I have very open body language and can chat shit for Britain.

But when it came to qualifying them, my mind went completely blank - and both of these women passed out of my life as quickly as I'd entered theirs.

This trend happened repeatedly during the night. I was running CF and good BL and getting my IOI's, yet it felt like hitting A3 would somehow undermine the previous CF/PUA persona and reveal the original 'me', which somehow feels less worthy of these girls very quick, very forward attention.

What are some tactics for A3?

I feel so close to stepping up to PUA level, I just need to push through this one barrier right now.

[Intrigue]

I'm going through the EXACT same shit in my sarges right now. I don't know when to turn off the C&F. I can hold the frame ridiculously against the toughest...But after awhile it starts to just piss off chicks. I'm just gonna try a bunch of things.

What was your favorite TV show when you were a kid?

What did you want to be when you were 7?

80's movies, which one is your favorite?

Music is my life what kind of music do you like and don't say Sanjaya.


This is just shit I've come up with off the top of my head but I want to field test it this week.

I also learned that most anything below an 8 doesn't usually respond well to negs. They don't like the fact that you are a rockstar because there's no way that they are.

[orbicore2007]

well, u r doing awesome by the way!
i get stuck in this same thing every now and ten, mainly cuz I'm used to being chatted up...i get all kinds of attention, but thast just me and im learning how to keep the convo going as long as i see fit..
now what i do, is i use the good ole mystery phrase "tell me 3 things about you that would make me want to get to know u..."..i LOVE the look of surprise on their faces and the smile they get from being tested..its gold!...when i rememebr to use this, it werx every time!
-Orbicore

[orbicore2007]

i've found also, that ur right bout 8-'s...they dont respond too well to too mnay negs. I get carried away at times, cuz I am a HUGE ego-maniac!- i am!
i find i have to tone myself down when practising on 8's a lower (sometimes, there are no hotties around!--and they always seem grateful). So i just act cocky and just lightly bust on them, and ..well thats bout it!-lol...its not too informative cuz 8-'s are different to negs and routines...so i guess i kinda trip myself up when i run game on anything/one less thna an 8...i guess..what do u think?

[-Silver-]

Make sure you are winning over her group, not just her. Ignore her whilst you make the group love you and she will want your attention even more, as it's a DHV in its own right. If you 'appear' to be appealing to the rest of the group rather than to her alone, then she will likely begin qualifying herself to you. When she keeps trying to grab your attention from this point, islolate her from the group: 'Hey guys, I've kinda been alienating your friend, mind if I borrow her for a sec?' standard Mystery line, they'll always say it's ok if she's alright with it, and of course she will be if you're getting your IOIs! Tell her 'Come here! I've got something awesome to show you!' And hold your hand out to check for another IOI if you want. If she grabs it you're in. Run another DHV here, in my case my killer magic trick. You can always palm read or cube her as they go down amazingly well. To qualify her, I will either use the line orbicore2007 mentioned, or another one from Mystery that he uses in one of the videos on youtube. 'Why am I so drawn to you? You have to rationalize this for me. You are a very beautiful girl, BUT, beauty is very common. These days you're either born with it, or you go and buy it. You know what's really rare to find?' 'What, what?' 'Three things - A great energy (point out she has this), a good sense of humour (point out you're both having fun together), and a great outlook on life... You got two out of three! (C+F)' Guess what she does here? Yup, she blabs about how she does have a great outlook on life!

Other things you can do - Tell her you've shown her loads of cool things after you've DHVd (magic tricks, cube, palm reading, any other routines you possess), and that you want her to show you something now. If she says she can't think of anything, say 'Oh, I thought you seemed kind of interesting. Well I'll tell you what, I have to go catch up with my friends now, but when you think of something cool to show me, come find me.' Style used this in The Game and it worked perfectly. Just don't expect her to show you anything amazing! At least she's jumping through your hoop and qualifying herself when she does though.

-Silver-

[Halcyon]

Typically it is said that A3 should start after you've had three solid IOI's. However, I find it useful to blend A2 and A3 a little. For example, halfway through you should ping for qualification "Are you adventurous?", if she really qualifies herself on this and tells a really awesome story then give her some solid IOI'S as a reward and then release it "Wow thats awesome, I only hang around with adventurous people they're way more fun, shame your such a geek though. Now you can throw bigger hoops and build a solid connection.

If when you ping for qualification she doesn't really qualify herself then you know you have more A2 to do and you can try again when the time is right. For example, "Are you adventurous?", if she just says "yeah, kind of" than you go into a DHV story about something really adventurous you and your friends did. Ultimately, you want her to jump through some really big hoops like "your a good looking girl but beauty is common, tell me three things about you that would make me want to get to know you more?". Its always helpful to disqualify yourself before throwing such a big hoop, eg, "You know you seem pretty cool but I'm not really sure your my type", this should push her towards qualifying herself to you.

BTW, if you don't know what to qualify a girl on than make a list of qualities you look for in a girl, eg, adventurous, spontaneous, intelligent.

[10Pin]

This is great stuff. Keep it coming guys.

Silver, I love that Mystery line. That was on one of the mehow.tv clips, wasn't it? I'd spent so much time thinking about A1 & A2 I had hardly anticipated sets of 9s and 10s opening as easily as they were.

I suspect I will be revisiting this thread over the next week or so. Got a Day 2 tomorrow anyway, so thats a great opportunity to test some A3/C1 out.

[NiteTime78]

Very interesting stuff. Definitely keep it coming. Sometimes I think I skip over A3, or don't do it properly then try to move to C1 too quickly.

[Halcyon]

"Sometimes I think I skip over A3"

Never skip over A3, it is one of the most critical points in a pick-up. If she doesn't think that you like her for legitimate reasons than she won't sleep with you.

[Orleans]

Qualification in a can:

Ask her questions about things that would qualify her to be your girlfriend. When she gives you her answer give a reaction relevent to the level of investment associated to the question you've asked.

Low Investment
"Are you adventurous?"
"Yes"
"Awesome I really appretiate that, I'm very adventurous myself!"

High Investment
"Give me three reasons why you're better then... *point across the room* her."
"I'm funny, graduated top of my class and I give a mean blowjob."
"WOW that's amazing! I don't know if I should talk to you anymore!" *backturn*

The level of investment can be judged both on the size of the hoop you're asking her to jump through and the amount of time she has to think in order to jump through it. Remember to reward her for trying (if she doess actually try hard) even if she can't meet your qualifications yet.

Lets face it though, sometimes you're just going to want to nail a girl but she's not going to live up to your girlfriend standards. Therefore, if you REALLY wanna pin down qualification ask questions that you know will be answered a certain way or have the locked in double bind of allowing you to give a positive reaction no matter what her response is.

You can also force qualification through a mix of cold reads and comments on her behavior/the conversation.

And please don't forget to release the tension at the end of a qualification reaction if you sense that there is an uncomfortableness/awkwardness!

[10Pin]

Thanks Orleans, that's great stuff. I'm going to be trying this out tonight.

One question, what do you mean by 'ask questions that you know will be answered a certain way or have the locked in double bind of allowing you to give a positive reaction no matter what her response is'?

Can you give an example?

[Zippo]

Hey 10pin,

The SP you are facing is a very common and hard one too, but the best thing you can do to solve this is in my opinion just practicing A3 (VAH style):

Verbal
Role reversal
Screening
Takeaways
Qualifiers
SOI
Compliments
BHRR

Non-verbal
Kino escalation
Compliance testing

And I think this is a good post to about the subject:
http://www.venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1485

[Orleans]

10Pin. A question you know could only be answered a certain way would be something like:

Are you adventurous?

Most girls if not all will answer yes to that in a club environment purely for the fact that if they answer no they're going to look bad. They may be the most unadventurous person in the world but I've yet to find someone who will answer no to this.

If you really wanna have fun with this one follow it up with "What's the most adventurous thing that you've ever done?" and wait for their answer. Generally they won't be able to come up with one or if they do it'll be pretty lame. Note: This is a detriment to your qualification, do it purely as an experiment and don't punish her for not being able to think of something!!!

A double bind would be something like:

Do you have a belly button ring?

If they say yes then you can answer with:

Good I love belly button rings on girls. What other piercings/tattoo's do you have?

If they say no you can say:

Good I hate belly button rings on girls, I find them so tacky and played out.

It's a double bind in that either way she answers you can give a positive reaction to it justifying the qualification. Obviously this one is based off more materialistic and less solid qualification but it's a basic example of a double bind used in qualification.

[Raven]

The way I understand it, is that when you have successfully sttracted her, you will get a series of IOI's. Once you have learned to spot and identify them it will be obvious she is into you and you are ready for A3.

The way I see it, any question can be a bait, because she invests in you by taking the effort to respond. the same for any request. you start small.

[Insanity]

i'm so glad I found this thread.

I'm a demon at opening at the moment and I can get some conversation it's very rare know that I get blown out within the first 10 minutes.

Example other week I was out with all my friends and two women come into the bar and I swear one of them looked like the girl out of thos basshunter videos.

They both go up to the bar, my mate pulls out a cigar and goes over to them. He asks for a light, they tell him they don't have one and he comes back to the group.

'What the fuck was that? I was expected some awsome pick up using that cigar as a prop.'

'No' he replied 'i've been with my girl friend for ages now and i don't really go up to people etc'

Bizarre cuz my buddy is a very good looking guy.

Anyway the two girls get their drinks and go to a quieter part of the bar. so I went in.


I opened telling them I couldn't stay long cuz I had to go back to my friends but it was my first night out in this area and where was good to go.

I then got my friends to come over and merged the sets.

Unfortunately the intereaction came to nothing but everyone spent the rest of the night telling me how 'fearless' I was.

But this is definately my sticking point. Getting them to qualify themselves I also neg far too much. These are the two things I'm working on most at the mo.

[Raven]

<< I opened telling them I couldn't stay long cuz I had to go back to my friends but it was my first night out in this area and where was good to go. >>

You generally want to stay away from asking for local info in A1 or A2 because it doesn't demonstrate high value, indeed, it says you don't know your way around and it forces them to think and invest in you before they feel attraction.

Once you have opened (or if she opens you), you must proceed immediately to A2 and give her DHV's and IOD's. Use canned material if you have to, or point out something interesting or amusing about the environment.

[Insanity]

Thanks for the advice Raven, I have worked on refining this very basic opener in that I'll follow it with a statement about my friends bringing me to this place cuz I'd shown them a great time in another major city the week earlier blah blah blah

Or

Off that opener I can go for a neg 'Don't you know where's good to go? do they only let you out once a year?' or even harder 'actually why am I asking a couple of geeks like you?'

Thats my thinking anyway, but I'll definately take your input on board.

I think that it is A2 that is my sticking point. Once I'm past A2 I can usually go on to close. I'm not quick enough to DHV and I'm not DHVing enough at the mo.

But Hey I've only been doing this about 2 months I'm still very much in my infancy. :)

[eazyigz]

This is good guys. Another good qualifier from Mystery is: "so, what else do you have going for your besides your good looks?"

[flashgordon]

Im still in this sticking point.

When ever I say "your a good looking girl but beauty is common, tell me three things about you that would make me want to get to know you more?"

THey always say is this an interview. Even if im with them for 3 hours. Id stay away from this line. Instead say whats the most awesome thing about you aprt from your looks because thats common.

[flashgordon]

Im getting iois from checkout girls and we have a banter, but whats best for checkout girls in A3???

[Estnord]

This is great stuff. Keep it coming guys.

Silver, I love that Mystery line. That was on one of the mehow.tv clips, wasn't it? I'd spent so much time thinking about A1 & A2 I had hardly anticipated sets of 9s and 10s opening as easily as they were.

I suspect I will be revisiting this thread over the next week or so. Got a Day 2 tomorrow anyway, so thats a great opportunity to test some A3/C1 out.

A1, A2, A3, C1... What if I don't know what these abbreviations mean?

[azazels_wolf]

That's when you should read the "Acronyms and Terminology" thread FIRST:

http://www.venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2498

[snaketales]

Hi pplz,

I also have this A3 Sticking point. I just cannot get some tension going.

I feel that the girls see me like a player since i create attraction consitently...

If A3 game is good then there must be some romantical things/ kissing going on and i dont have this rigth now. The girls just dont know if i like them yes or no. I also don't escalate , i am trying to do A3 conciusly but sometimes it seems not congruent and fake. However when i do BHHR correctly i notice i get some good IOI's especially for the takeaways.

Can you cook?
Yes i cook this and this this and this
Omg i live you, a few months when well be together well cook together and you learn me cooking and i mess it up and you are angry at me but i give you a kiss and then were all happy.
but to bad you are not my type:(

They then respond like why not or they give a horny IOI like showing her neck.



The thing is i notice i must be congruent....

[Raven]

Snaketales

From what you wrote, it seems you still need to work on your "inner game"

It sounds like you are coming from a place of scarcity, just trying to "get the girl" using tactics. Sometimes, if you're not a really good actor, they can sense this.

What you need to do is to sit down, and think of some things you really like and dislike in a girl/woman. Wite it down. Write down somethings you dislike so much you would bail no matter how hot she is.

A3 is the time to qualify the woman and ask questions to determine if she is good enough for you.

Have standards.

[snaketales]

Snaketales

From what you wrote, it seems you still need to work on your "inner game"

It sounds like you are coming from a place of scarcity, just trying to "get the girl" using tactics. Sometimes, if you're not a really good actor, they can sense this.

What you need to do is to sit down, and think of some things you really like and dislike in a girl/woman. Wite it down. Write down somethings you dislike so much you would bail no matter how hot she is.

A3 is the time to qualify the woman and ask questions to determine if she is good enough for you.

Have standards.

its true what you are saying many of my wings also say this.

Yeh it is perhaps sometimes noticable for girls cause i really sucked at girls and i am technical still a virgin... so yeh:). Its really hard for me.

I have some afferimations

"I am happy being single"
"A girl doesnt make me happy"

"I enjoy growing in the venusian arts and i am proud of how much i progressed thus far. I am relaxed and patient and when it happens it will be a wonderfull feeling".

The best time to quallify imo is if it is sincere...

Still working on this...

[Maverick69]

what is it that you want in a girl? When you have found this out, screen her for what you are interested in.

ex. If you like girls who can cook really well, ask her, "Can you cook?" and if she qualifies herself for you, than congratz you're on the way to getting her to comfort.

You don't want to qualify her 3 times in a row back to back because it's unnatural and she will smell your agenda. Qualify her once and go back to normal conversation. Once you sway your conversation towards another qualification question you can naturally qualify her again. After about 3 qualifications you can isolate her and build comfort. This was one of my main sticking points too but you can get past it man.

[Fanta-c]

wats CF and BL never heard of those

[Raven]

The Inner Game is really not discussed all that much (although I'll go looking around here a bit more) by Seduction Scientists. Basically, it becomes not about "getting the girl" but more about taking care of your own happiness. Ask yourself questions. Are there types of women you would not want to be with no matter how hot? What is really important to you in life? What can you not live without? What are you willing to sacrafice for? And yes, you only need one qualifying question for starters. If you ask too many up front she feels like she's being interrogated.

[azazels_wolf]

CF = cocky-funny

BL = body language

For acronyms and terminology, see this thread:
http://www.venusianarts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2498


And indeed, inner game plays a large role in how you personally use A3. We have an entire section dedicated to Inner Game here:
http://www.venusianarts.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=78