Game for women?

[AmyF]

Is it appropriate to ask for help with my game? I'm lurking around a lot of the seduction community sites, and am interested if there are other women out there doing the same, or if guys would be willing to share some flip side insight. Don't want to piss off or threaten anyone. I've heard a lot of stories of guys having success with routines even when women had heard them before.

[daredevil]

www.catchhimandkeephim.com

Run by David DeAngelo & co. My friend told me he EVEN warns you how to spot aspiring PUAs which would blast me right out! Bastard... I think its fair.

I warn you though he's quite the salesman, so don't get carried away.

However he's brought a lot of good concepts to the community.

-x- Daredevil -x-

PS - I also heard Style's next book might be about a woman he hired, and her story about becoming a female PUA!! Keep your eyes peeled...

[daredevil]

"Lurking" ??! Don't use that word.

Not sexy ;-)

[Monster]

David D has always been good with outlining experiences everyone always had.
You know ... When ... Blabla.

It'll be a great way to jott down some stereotypes or experiences you can share with women.

[AmyF]

Daredevil -- thanks for the referral; I'll check it out.

[Superfreak]

http://cocksanddolls.blogspot.com/

Its a Blog ran by Dolly who attended Cliff's list

Also anything on inner game would probably help you. One thing I have more recently come to realize in talking and dealing with women that show interest in the PUA life style is that as unbelievable as it sounds women have just as many issues approaching a guy as we do women. They are more sociably adapt than us but they are usually the ones being approached. So they are not used to approaching men and in some cases they fear rejection more than we do. Social status is so ingrained in woman that the thought of being rejected and everyone seeing it, the fear of social embarrassment (weather real or not) is hard for them to over come. Also the same ASD that we talk about in regaurds to women also has an effect on them approaching men.

As far as other PUA females the only active ones I know of are on Alt.seduction.fast usenet group. If you have or get a google account you can access that free

[Lyle Stone]

I'm aware of a female pick up artist in the northeast, she's in the community but does not advertise. If you're really interested in learning this stuff, private message me and I'll give you her contact info.

Best,
Lyle S.

[Murphy]

catch him and keep him is a very good book from what I've read so far

id recomend it for men not just women

christian carter is a real guy by the way and he does seminars
though i dont know how much David D helps

[AmyF]

Superfreak – Thanks for the link to Dolly’s blog. Yes, I am definitely most interested in improving my inner game. Quoting Style, “The best way to meet women is to have something better to do than to meet women.” I think if I improve my confidence and make my own life exciting, that that is attractive enough on its own and the rest will fall into place. And I agree with you that it is sometimes hard for women to get over AA. When you have the option, as most women do, of sitting and waiting for a guy to do all the work, sometimes it’s tempting to take the easy way out.

I am specifically looking to improve my game in the area of sussing out which men have character, integrity, and share my desire for an intimate LTR.

Murphy and Daredevil – thanks for the ‘Catch Him and Keep Him’ suggestion. I’m finding it interesting so far.

[Superfreak]

Well in that case this will help not only you but also the guys its called Toast Masters its a nonprofit gourp around the world that has clubs in most major cities the focus is socialization and public speaking. This is a great venue for meeting quality people from diverse backgrounds and working on yourself as well.
Also it is a great place to network in terms of making new friends and also can be used to advance ideals or social status make connections for employment, business connections, etc....

Here is the link to that: http://www.toastmasters.org/

Here is just some of the famous people that have been in toastmasters
Carl Albert Former Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives, 1971-77
Tim Allen Actor, star of television series, "Home Improvement"
Everett Alvarez Retired Navy Cmdr. and former Deputy Director of the Peace Corps
William Bennett Former Premier of British Columbia, Canada
James Brady Two-term press secretary for U.S. President Ronald Reagan; author of the Brady Bill, which authorizes a 5-day waiting period on handgun purchases
Nancy Brinker Founder of the Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer Foundation.
Joe Conley Actor, former cast member of television show "The Waltons"
Peter Coors President of Brewing Division of Adolph Coors Company
Philip Crosby Quality expert and leader of the quality movement
Ben Couch Member of Parliament, New Zealand
Robert Emory Founder, Emory Worldwide Courier Service
Debbie Fields Rose Founder, Mrs. Fields Cookies
Anita Perez Ferguson President, U.S. National Women's Political Caucus
Steve Fraser 1984 Olympic Gold medalist in Greco-Roman wrestling; National Director of Sports Marketing Systems for Domino's Pizza, Inc.
Napoleon Hill Best-selling author of "Think and Grow Rich;" presidential advisor
Tara Dawn Holland Christensen Miss America, 1997
K.C. Jones Former basketball coach for NBA team, Boston Celtics
Billie Jean King Tennis pro and former Wimbledon champion
Richard Lamm Former Governor of Colorado and 1996 Reform Party Presidential candidate
Donald D. Lennox President, Xerox Corporation's Information Systems Group
James Lovell Former U.S. astronaut; missions included Apollo 13
Harvey Mackay Best-selling author of "Swim With the Sharks Without Being Eaten Alive"
Hyde Murray Former Republican Counsel for the U.S. House of Representatives
Robert Nesen Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Navy, 1970-71
Sam Nunn U.S. Senator, Democrat from Georgia
Paul Oreffice Former President and CEO of Dow Chemical, Midland, Michigan
Cavett Robert Founder of the National Speakers Association; author
Pat Roberts Senator, Republican from Kansas
Walter Schirra Former U.S. astronaut
Carol Stoker Missouri State congresswoman
John V. Tunney Former U.S. Senator and television commentator
King Vidor Director of classic Hollywood motion pictures
Tracy Wilson CBS commentator, Canadian Bronze Medalist in Ice Dancing
John Young Former U.S. astronaut

[Yoda]

My opinion is that for girls, attracting a guy is largely based on physical appearance, especially initially. Anything you can do to augment your beauty will help a lot.

But if you already have that down, then having a strong identity will strengthen whatever attractive qualities you already possess.

Good luck :cool:

[Superfreak]

I am not argreeing with or against this next bit just putting it out there as I know this has been developing in the Female PUA side of things.

What I have started to notice and have reasearched is a growing tend of women that are say on a scale of 1-10 that are 5+ and up have actually developed a rather interesting way of hooking more attractive men by pretending to be lesbians when in fact they are bi or even straight. Thus presenting more of a challenge to the man to get him to seduce her.

[AmyF]

Yoda – I hear what you’re saying about physical attractiveness, and for everyone it’s only smart to make the most of yourself. I think of Jennifer Aniston though, who is extremely pretty, but I would not say empirically beautiful, and I wonder if it’s not that particularly feminine confidence and charm that she has that pushes her over the top into exceptional. Or at least, incredibly popular.

Superfreak – As far as the Toastmasters goes, I’ve always had the impression of it as kind of a public speaking club for salesman and politicians, but I don’t really know where I got that from. Have you had personal experience with it?

Also, I’m glad you mentioned the thing about pretending to be a lesbian. It’s not a tactic I would use, I could never respect a man that got hooked with that, but it’s an interesting idea conceptually. I am coming to believe that no great man is won and kept without a challenge (or perhaps a series of challenges), and that is a challenge that is sort of flirtatious and sexual, and not threatening.

It’s sort of like a female DHV. “Prove how sexy you are to me. Win me over to your team.”

[Yoda]

I see what your saying about Jennifer Aniston, and I'm sure "Friends" helped get across her alluring personality.

I think the game would work similarly on HG's (Hot guys). Especially those guys who are use to getting compliments from girls. Although I tend to think active disinterest plays less a role in seducing a guy than a girl.

[Superfreak]

Yoda – I hear what you’re saying about physical attractiveness, and for everyone it’s only smart to make the most of yourself. I think of Jennifer Aniston though, who is extremely pretty, but I would not say empirically beautiful, and I wonder if it’s not that particularly feminine confidence and charm that she has that pushes her over the top into exceptional. Or at least, incredibly popular.

Superfreak – As far as the Toastmasters goes, I’ve always had the impression of it as kind of a public speaking club for salesman and politicians, but I don’t really know where I got that from. Have you had personal experience with it?

Also, I’m glad you mentioned the thing about pretending to be a lesbian. It’s not a tactic I would use, I could never respect a man that got hooked with that, but it’s an interesting idea conceptually. I am coming to believe that no great man is won and kept without a challenge (or perhaps a series of challenges), and that is a challenge that is sort of flirtatious and sexual, and not threatening.

It’s sort of like a female DHV. “Prove how sexy you are to me. Win me over to your team.”


Yea I have been to a few meetings, The toastmaster's groups very a bit but the main focus is in two catagories that are leadership and presentation. Once you are a member I think it cost somewhere around $20 they send you some materials and at the meetings which can be like board meetings you are assigned a mentor of sorts. The group decides on an ideal and each member plays a part and at the next meeting people make speaches or present there assigned ideals. The mentor will rate how you do and give you tips excetria. Business owners, executives, public officals, salesmen, lawyers,etc attend. The reason I recomend it is the people you meet. It is mostly men though so yea you will do good there. As far as the guys go you can bring woman with you to hear your speechs, it sets you as an authority on the subject. Also if you can entertain, educate, and captivate a room full of people giving a speech on some boring topic them you can apply those skills to social settings .

[AJNY]

Superfreak,

I would say develop your interests and your conversational skills.
Live a great life. I came back from Los Angeles on a flight recently
and met the most interesting older women, above 50.
She was attractive, but she was in her 50's.

She told me all about her travels, her relationships, and her music.
She taught me a lot.

She opened me based on the book I was reading.
Considering that 15 minutes before I met her I was speaking to
one of the worlds most wild porn stars, Ava Devine (do a search a you will see she is one of the wildest porn stars and has a rockin body), who I bumped into at LAX, I was surprised that she basically made me forget about the porn star.

[Eric in CA]

Amy,

The community, particularly guys like Mystery and Style, went back to evolutionary roots to figure out what made men attractive to women. I suggest you do the same: Explore deeply what makes women attractive to men.

Similarly to what happened to men, female attractiveness has been corrupted by the time since we ceased being hunter-gatherers. Particularly since the 1960's, what is societally imposed on women to enhance attractiveness is not well aligned with what men truly find attractive. Assertiveness, short hair, overt sexuality; all these may draw attention and bring men closer, but will not result in visceral, long term attraction.

"The Red Queen" discusses some of these concepts. In addition to physical attractiveness, cultivate classic femenine traits, such as social adaptation, poise, and charm. Hence the good advice about Toastmasters, which I enjoyed for a number of years. I also was impressed by one gem from the 1930's: "Better Than Beauty: A Guide to Charm".

- Eric

[dman]

As far as other PUA females the only active ones I know of are on Alt.seduction.fast usenet group. If you have or get a google account you can access that freeAs about to mention they have a couple of frequent female posters there.

Also I remember that themysterymethod forums had several girls there too, so don't worry there are other girls out there interested in the game.

[dman]

My opinion is that for girls, attracting a guy is largely based on physical appearance, especially initially. Anything you can do to augment your beauty will help a lot.

But if you already have that down, then having a strong identity will strengthen whatever attractive qualities you already possess.
Heard of the 80/20 rule?

(warning, guesswork of numbers below...)

What is attractive to a girl is 20% looks, and 80% the "other stuff" a guy has. This is why we are so effective in focussing on "the other stuff". Obviously looks make a big difference.... but they are far from essential and other areas make a bigger impact.

But what a guy finds attractive in a girl is 80% looks and 20% "the other stuff". So you can see with a girl she will get the biggest returns from improving her looks and looking "hot". So while good on you in looking at improving that 20% of your "attractiveness" which is "other stuff", do remember the number one thing which makes you "hot" to the guys is your looks.

[NtinosDJ]

What is attractive to a girl is 20% looks, and 80% the "other stuff" a guy has. This is why we are so effective in focussing on "the other stuff". Obviously looks make a big difference.... but they are far from essential and other areas make a bigger impact.

I'm talking about us now, since it's the 20-80% rule reversed for us.

Let's say I work out and do heavy weightlifting, which results in my body getting more fit and better looking. I think the 20-80% rule implies that:
the 20% part covering my looks will be affected by the fact that working out has improved my appearance
the 80% part coverin the "other stuff" will be affected more heavily in that in order to work out and do weight lifting and get my ass in shape it is implied:
a) I care about my appearance, therefore -> social intelligence
b) I have the energy/thirst for life to get my ass in shape
c) I have a better energy thanks to working out, more confidence and better mood
d) I have the balls and discipline to do weight lifting, do X repetitions, therefore I have self-control.
e) I care about growing muscles -> implies improving your survival value.
and all of this is on an unconsious level.

Am I getting this right?

[dman]

You are kinda getting it right in that it will have indirect benifits in other areas outside simply physical looks.

I'm just cautious in how people talk about bodybuilding on pick up forums because I believe a lot of people take this too far.

Remember too a girl typically finds a swimmer's build more attractive than a weightlifter's build.

For that matter, have you seen the top level elite lifters at the olympics? Pretty ugly guys in general!

[MINDreadr]

Amy
I have been working with women using the MM for a while now. There are completely aditional steps that allow you to possition a man to pick you up.

And proper traing for AFCs.

Contact me and I'll give you what I have.

MINDreadr:D