The Zen of PU

[thenow]

This is just me trying to articulate how I’ve been coming at things and the difference between the sets that I’ve done which have gone extremely well and not so well. If I can articulate it, then I can make it more consistent in future. A lot of it is based off stuff I’ve read in this forum and others.

Ego and value taking:

If I want something from the set I am ‘taking value’. Like a beggar wanting money from me, or some guy trying to copy my assignment at university, or someone trying to get invited to a party I’m going to, I have an agenda. Usually guys go in with agendas like: wanting sex, wanting to validate themselves, and most frequently wanting to feed or support their ego. They have an image in their mind of themselves being at a certain level of success with women. Lets say I rate my game an 8/10… I walk around all day feeling good about myself because I’ve been working on my game and I think it’s at a decent level. But deep down I know that my game might not really be an 8/10… I’m just thinking that to make myself feel better.

Now when I go out that night, whenever I do an approach I’ll always be using it to reinforce how I feel good about myself. If I do my first approach and it goes well, I think “fuck maybe my game really IS an 8/10” and I go into state. But this is fragile, for as soon as I get a bad reaction (be it my fault or not) I’ll think to myself “shit my game really isn’t that good” and I’ll start to doubt myself. I’ll need positive social feedback to get back into state again. So I’m not really talking to people because it’s fun, or for no reason at all, or to make them happy. I’m talking to them because I want their validation. I want a positive reaction from them in response to my actions. If I do not get this positive reaction then I will push harder for it. It is obvious. This makes me reaction seeking in how I act, and how I am perceived.

Reaction seeking:

When you have an agenda in an interaction, you will do things which you believe will fulfil that agenda. Let’s say my agenda is to feed my ego and reinforce the fact to myself that I have good game. I will go into the set and open using the opener which I believe will open the best. “Hey guys, I need a female opinion”. It goes well. Ego is fed, I go into state. But one of the girls isn’t laughing at my joke. Maybe I’m not a pickup artist after all? I know, all I need to do is say something funny. “I have to know… are you guys best friends?”. I run the best friends test and it doesn’t hit. I start to get desperate. What’s wrong with me? Why isn’t the set going well? I do some hardcore push-pull but it’s grossly miscalibrated to the situation and I have a desperate nervous look in my eyes as I do it. I creep them out and the girls walk off. Of course this is an extreme example, but I’ve seen it hundreds of times both in myself and others.

I came in with an agenda, and so I used button pushing tactics to achieve it. When I did not get the desired outcome, I pushed those buttons harder. The funny thing is that it is blatantly obvious whenever you have an agenda and it creeps people out. Even the smallest thing like wanting the interaction to go well will put people off talking to you. When you want something that is not happening then you will become anxious and it will be visible. You want to be completely relaxed and smooth. Calm. But when you fear that you are the not the pickup artist you thought you were then you will become anxious. You will get the approach anxiety feeling or something simular and it will come through in the way you act. People will avoid you. “We have to go meet a friend” they will say.

The solution:

What you must do is cut out your agenda totally. Completely get rid of outcome dependency. When you do this, then you will no longer ‘do’ anything which you would not normally do in an interaction. Why would you do anything, apart from to get a desired reaction? When you cut your agenda, you will just be normal. The act of doing anything or making any effort implies that you are doing it for a purpose -> you are seeking a reaction. In other words, expelling any effort in set is reaction seeking behaviour. Doing anything you wouldn’t normally do is reaction seeking behaviour. Effort = reaction seeking = bad.

Consider this quote “This is also why if I tell a guy taking a bootcamp "I want you to TRY to get blown out, by not making any effort" he'll open the sets and they'll all stick on him like glue.’. (TD)

Now if I tell you to go into a set and try to get blown out by doing nothing and not making any effort, you will go in and it will be quite possibly the best set you’ve ever run. You will be in the ‘sweet spot’ that Tyler talks about and you will have hardcore sexual attraction with all the girls. But if I tell you to do it again on another set, it will bomb.

This is because you are going in with an agenda again. You aren’t ‘doing nothing’, you are ‘doing’ nothing. You’re trying to look as if you’re not making any effort in an attempt to manipulate the set to go well and this will be sub communicated. But what you need to do is transcend this and really really REALLY not make any effort. Not push any buttons – NOR TRY NOT to push any buttons. Because you have no agenda, so why would you care either way? When you completely drop the agenda and do not do anything unnatural, and do not make any effort, you will naturally not be button pushing, you will naturally be unreactive, and naturally add value to the interaction. You must ‘do nothing’, and not ‘do’ nothing.

So in summary:

-Do nothing

LOL!

Hope you found this post useful :)

[NiteTime78]

Honestly, in principle it's very useful, but also very confusing to a beginner. If you don't have a girl it's very hard not to "want" one if you're trying to meet one. Wanting things is just being human right.

Being normal is good, but what most beginners consider normal is the reason why they came here in the first place.

Anyway, I like the post and I understand the intent, but it's the kind of thing that will make beginners very confused.

[BigCat]

Depends on the beginer. I comletely understand what you're talking about. don't try cause it doesn't matter and things flow naturally. it is good advice for getting over AA. that's how i'm gonna use it...

[Cataclysm]

As a newbie with oriental background from Singapore that makes sense.

Sounds like the philosophy of Tao. Strength comes from weakness. Leadership comes from service. Force comes from softness.

The art of conquering woman comes from having no desire of conquering them at all.

[Jazzy_ways]

Wow I am going to go and try to get blown out :d

[radwulf]

that was brilliant, something that i've been struggling with too!

[_desperado_]

OMG! Dude, thank you so fucking much!! I had the same "problem". I remeber the night when me and 2 wings walked into a club...really really high on energy and happy like how we play this game well, about 8/10 also. Night before, me and my wing were sweeping the woman looks from us, it was really intense. We merge about 3 sets to just large one. About 9,10 women around us too. Then the night later, same wing and my best one, gone into some club. Really in the mood and we EXPECTED to be the same as night before (when we merged). But it was really empty..shit. Then we went out for a smoke, and tought about it.

WE WERE GOING THERE WITH INTENTION TO PLAY! THAT WAS WRONG!!
we forgot that PUA is about building a life, having fun and sharing fun! Then we just deleted women from the place, and had fun dancing, walking around, taking pics (wich i do for money), five minutes later, 2 girls already opened me. So i guess never ever go out with some agenda and expectation. I belive PUA is about satisfying women who deserves it, bringing smiles to their faces, moist between their legs. And having fun again :))

[BigJohnson]

Ah yes, fascinating post. Not only that, I have seen this in my own experience to a significant degree. I will add something to your thoughts if you don't mind.

When it comes to ego, we put a certain amount of effort into sustaining it. The amount of effort dumped into sustaining an ego is based on how much value we believe we can derive from it. It is in the worst case, when we believe ego is all we have as far as who we are, these people break.

Using your example, say you base all of your value on your 8/10 PU skills. Lets say this 8/10 PU skill is based on a lot of reading, and rigid information and analysis. Something comes along to threaten that image, which you value very much. You will either become weakened by this threat, or take defensive measures before you could conceive this threat arising. Either way there is no natural charisma allowed in this. Thinking your an 8/10 puts you in a funny position. It has you automatically fearing the other end of the spectrum, and protecting yourself from it. In this, you may end up spending very little time enjoying your experience, rather you may find yourself in constant seeking mode, adding more information to reinforce the identity.

Then again, lets say you do successfully attract women. A lot of the time, people refer to you as being very good with women. Yet, you may not see it this way. You may have a series of other things your able to fully enjoy. You may be aware that really, nothing is more important than anything else, ever. You treat what you do with love, simply because its what your doing now, and what you do returns the favor unconditionally. Your value is radiating from a source that is unchangeable. Women see you in a fuzzy undefinable way, not in predictable rigid straight lines. They may not know why they are attracted, but they are, just as you have no idea, your just enjoying your experience, not fighting it.

Let me just say, basing value off ego is a disaster. Put ego in the background, put it in time out so you can enjoy yourself. When ego is at rest, you never know what you will do, or what you will say, you become capable of anything. It is easy to love yourself, the goings on, and express it in a genuine way, which always returns the love. If ego is in the foreground, your bound to the ideas that it entails, a crippling goop indeed.