Dating Girls With A Lot Of Guy Friends?

[casanova]

Alright, so the girl I'm dating right now has a lot of guy friends, that's pretty much all she hangs out with. Is it wrong for me to be insecure and jealous... I mean there's always that thing in the back of my head telling me that maybe she is up to something. I mean I don't think she is doing anything with any of them right now because i'm over here house damn near every night but when ever I see some of these friends coming around I always have the same thought in my head, " I wonder if she fucked this guy at one point..." Also it pisses me off when she gets text from guys... Those are like the only people that text her. I don't let my insecurity show for the most part but I'm sure it peaks it's way through from time to time. What do you guys think about the subject? Would you date a girl that had a lot of guy friends?

Also, last night we get drunk we have sex then she falls asleep. I wake her up to set her alarm on her phone and she's still drunk. While she's doing that I notice that she starts texting. Now who the hell wakes up out of a dead sleep @ 2:30 am and starts texting. We don't look at each others texts but I kinda saw the screen from the distance and I'm 90% sure it said " Brian" on there and my name is "Chris"... I called her on it and I asked her who she was texting, she said she was texting me, but I know it was bullshyt. She sent me a text after she texted this other guy. I mean, I'm practically over this girls house everynight but still, texting a guy @ 2:30 am doesn't really sound like just friends to me.

[Killer]

A lot of women hang out primarily with guys. One thing you need to realize is that these guys are well into LJBF zone. You don't need to worry about her hooking up with them. They might want to do it, but she won't put out for them.

Secondly, was she answering a text in bed or did she just pick up her phone and text some guy? It may be something between her and a friend, nothing more.

But, when she replied that she was texting you, when you were right there to talk to her, it seemed like it was a cover up. If someone acts suspiciously, odds are the person is doing something suspicious. Had she said "Just texting Todd back" like it was nothing, then odds are it would be nothing. You definitely threw her off guard there. You should think about her reaction and deal with it accordingly. Was it definitely a cover up of something she is hiding, and can you deal with her hiding something? Or was it something you should not worry about?

[Hotspur]

You need to relax.

She checked her phone, there was a text from Brian, and she responded.

It's no big deal - unless you make it one.

She had guy friends before you were around, she's going to have guy friends while you're around, and after, too.

Did she fuck any of them?

Maybe. But deal with it. She fucked people before she fucked you. Notice something? She's not fucking them now. She's fucking you. She's chosen you over those other guys.

Feel good about that. Be psyched about it. But whatever you do: don't worry about it.

You don't have the right to ask her to redefine her relationships with her friends, so long as they're just friends. Sounds like they are. So you need to get a grip on your paranoia (The Power of Now might help) and chill.

[azazels_wolf]

A lot of the best, most well-adjusted women out there keep a LOT of guy friends, and make sure to maintain those friendships. Be glad she has this, it speaks well about her, and her value.

Don't get upset about it. Your ego wants to be the center of her attention, but from the looks of it, you already ARE. But she has to have time for the other people in her life too. You can't and shoudn't restrict who she talks to.

Focus on yourself, not the other guys. YOU have to be the prize, YOU have to be higher value than anyone of them. YOU have to continue to satisfy her needs. If you do this, she will continue to choose YOU over any of them.

Stop WORRYING. It accomplishes nothing except fucking with your state and making things worse. Be in the moment, enjoy your time with her, and stop thinking about the possibility that she may be fucking so and so in the future. Instead of being insecure, focus on connecting with her better NOW.

[matrixx]

It's you that is in her bed, and not them. Don't call her out on shit. You are looking like a jealous insecure little bitch right now so back the fuck off. Why are you spending every night over there to begin with? That screams neediness and you have no life beyond her.

[Flex]

I agree with most the posters above. You need to just chill.

The last thing you want to do is convey that sort of attitude.

Imagine if you acted like a total jealous AFC around her a lot more like this....it is more than likely that she will vent to her male friends about you.(considering she has a lot of male friends as you say)

You don't want those male friends to be hearing that, because it gives them a certain degree of power over you. It gives them the opportunity to talk bad about you, to tell her that she shouldn't be with someone that reacts that way.

If you didn't act like this, and they went about saying stuff like that, they would be in the wrong, and likely be scolded by her, for she would be defending you.

But if it is her that brings up the fact that you are acting jealous, then it opens a door for them to try and eliminate your position with her and move themselves one step closer to eliminating their LJBF status, by making statements about how she doesn't deserve a guy that freaks out like that, and how they would never act that way.

The only thing you want is for her to talk great about you to them, so that they can continue to tuck their tails and stay in that LJBF stage.

It may be too late for you, but the first thing I do if I am recently seeing a girl is befriend her male friends, especially if she tends to have a lot of male friends. If you get yourself stuck in a position where they only see you as "her boyfriend", instead of a "cool guy", they will lose a certain degree of respect for you and ultimately envy/hate you for being in a position they would much rather be. If you befriend them, convey yourself as an all-out badass cool guy, that gives them no choice but to think "Oh, well....I understand why she's with him, he's a chill as hell guy. I can't think of anything wrong with him, so it makes sense."

Good luck!
Flex

[masterintraining]

Hey man I hear you. And your feelings are founded. But remember, you can't change people. If you find a girl that is almost what you want, but not quite, you need to let her go.

PAY ATTENTION! this will save you countless heart ache. You can't change people and you can't expect some girl to be different just for you, it never works and never will. You need to be honest with yourself. Are you going to be ok with this. What ever it is she is doing that you do not like she will continue it. If you tell her that you are bothered by it she will just hide it from you and lie to you.Your only option is to suck it up (only a short term solution) or say good bye.

I speak from exp. Trust me and just save yourself the trouble.

[ScottSavvy]

I had the same problem with my ex girlfriend. She ALWAYS hung out with her ex boyfriend. Talk about weird huh?

The way I look at it, I'm sleeping with her, not him. She chose him over and and LEFT him for me. If she wasn't attracted to you then she wouldn't keep hanging out with you.

A very accurate rule about people who lie is that they expect to have to explain themselves. People who tell the truth expect to be believed.

If she just says 'Oh I'm txting Todd' then she is probably just txting Todd.
If she says 'I'm txting my friend Todd that I met in Barnes and Nobles a couple weeks after we started dating about what he should do about his best friends girlfriend problem'

Then he is either completely gay and you have NO worries, or something is up and you should ask to hang out with all 3 of you so you can see for yourself.

[Hugz]

A lot of the best, most well-adjusted women out there keep a LOT of guy friends, and make sure to maintain those friendships. Be glad she has this, it speaks well about her, and her value.

Oh, this is so true! Well said.

[Sway]

I had the same problem with my ex girlfriend. She ALWAYS hung out with her ex boyfriend. Talk about weird huh?


I have that problem right now. I don't have a problem with a girl having guy friends, but this particular girl has a lot of guy friends who were once guys she dated. She's still very close with her first boyfriend. Her close male friends are guys she's been sexual with in the past, and she still socializes with guys she's dated before.

Now normally, this isn't a problem. They're all well into LJBF zone, some who deserve to be there, some who *I* put there. <evil grin>

However, I. JUST. CANNOT. UNDERSTAND. IT.

They're not a threat to me, yet it bothers me. I wouldn't want all these people from my past hanging around. Why would she?

She's completely devoted to me so I trust her, and I don't think she's keeping them around as "emergency dick". However, I don't want to hang out with a dude who's had his finger in my girl's pussy. Is that an AFC attitude, or is it normal? I still haven't figured it out. I'd rather not have to be around those guys. Nothing personal, it just feels weird. Especially, when I know they're running AFC style tactics; it makes them even creepier to be around.

I'm also tired of her AFC friends being so needy around her and running that useless SensitiveFriend-To-Lover game to win her over. One of her closest straight male friends is secretly pining for her, but she refuses to see it. She still believes him when he said he "views her as a sister". Predictably, he made a move on her when I wasn't around some time after making that statement.

It makes me lose a little respect for her that she enjoys having these needy guys around doing things for her, rather than doing what I would do and leaving the past in the past and moving on.



A very accurate rule about people who lie is that they expect to have to explain themselves. People who tell the truth expect to be believed.


VERY interesting way to put that.

[azazels_wolf]

Sometimes couples break up amicably and still retain a strong emotional bond and a foundation of friendship. Many girls don't want to burn those kinds of bridges because they enjoy this sort of intimate friendship and may derive other benefits from such. Just because two people aren't having sex anymore doesn't mean that they hate each other and never want to spend time together or do anything for each other again. Not all breakups are clean cuts.

What I said earlier in the thread applies to this as well - high value women will respect many of their ex's and remain friends with them and socialize with them. It's indicative that she still cares for these guys and isn't dragging them through the mud just because they broke up, and if you'll ever break up with her she would hopefully treat you with the same sensitivity.

If you walk away from everyone in your past, sooner or later you'll have no one to walk back to when you need someone. There's no reason to sever a friendship if it is beneficial to both involved just because there is no sex.

[Rocco]

And what about if you have another girl friends?? How would she react if you text in the night with other girls, if you meet in her presence other girls, if you receive in your home the visits of other girls??

I am very curios how would she react in such a situation and I am almost sure she wouldn't like that very much.

I agree this should not become some kind of "competition" between you both, but the best I think you can do is to start to make another female friends, anyway you would not have the pressure to sleep with them or whatever, and I am sure you will stop to feel jealousy and you would be much happier with your life.

And then see how she reacts to this, if she is ok with that then there is no problem.

Edit: I forgot to add, in Mind of Mystery Lovedrop quotes The Dangerous Passion where they did a study on jealousy. There they say that jealousy is an emotion designed to protect a pair bond. So if you have a pair bond with a woman, this is an investment that's cost a lot of time and energy and men tend to protect the investment and so on. Then to whatever degree you feel that pair bond is threatened, an emotion is going to be activated that is going to motivate you to protect it more.

Jealousy is that emotion designed to protect your pair bond and it does this by motivating certain behaviors....

The interesting thing in this book is the study they made with couples which have problems with jealousy, so they took the girl aside and told her that this is a study completely confidential and for science, and then they asked her if she cheated on him.

The results are that ninety percent of the time, when a partner felt jealous, the other partner really was cheating!!!

[Hugz]

Male sexual jealousy is PUA kriptonite, which can lead to oneitus and other nasty diseases. I perfer instead to make the woman feel jealousy.

[Buld]

I had the same problem with my ex girlfriend. She ALWAYS hung out with her ex boyfriend. Talk about weird huh?


That is dangerous. I can tell first hand because I kept close relations with my ex and when her new BF pissed her off she would come and fuck me.

Only let her her keep her male friends if she hasn't fucked them yet. That means she won't in the future.

[azazels_wolf]

So according to this perspective, it would be okay for you to keep these close relations with your ex, but NOT okay for your gf to have male friends that are her exes.

Many high value women would not tolerate that sort of double standard, and I doubt you would either if you were on the other end of that standard.

[Buld]

I was single at the time. I wouldn't have done it if I was in a relationship myself.

[masterintraining]

azazels_wolf your awesome but I got to go with buld on this one.

If she used to fuck a dude and she is still friends with him. He is essentially a dick in a glass case. Break in case of emergency. This guys are friends, but at the first chance they get they will fuck her. Sometimes Girls want to hang on to a guy and get all the stuff they used to get from him without officially being with him.

I dated a girl like that and even 8 years after the relationship she would get a call from her ex saying he dreams of fucking her. This was basically true of all her EXs (they just said it in different ways.) Worse they all jabbed at me when ever they could. - Bad sign, shows they are jealous. Nothing is worse then jealous "friends" talking shit about you into her ear. Just think of a scenario where you fight and she goes to an EX for advice...

Take a close look at this girl. How many of her friends are EXs? - Too many and it means she has trouble letting go. This also means she likes to force things into being something they are not.

Why is it that she has to hang on to that relationship? Was it a healthy break up because they decided it wasn't meant to be, aka we will make better friends? Or was it a long drawn out thing that left a deep and incurable scar.

Does she sometimes confuse her ex with you? - This means she is carrying over the unresolved issues of that relationship onto you.

Did she stop talking to them and then become friends years after they both got over it or was their friendship an extension of their relationship. - If it is the former then chances are they still have some baggage between them.

IF you have a negative answer for ANY of these. This is called a red flag. Don't be in a relationship with a girl that has huge red flags. Your just asking for pain.

I speak from exp as not only have I seen this happen to most of my friends, but I have been on both sides. I was the BF that her EX wanted to get ride of so they can get back in. And I was the friend who she could call to get her needs handled from time to time.

That line of she gave you "If you walk away from everyone in your past, sooner or later you'll have no one to walk back to when you need someone."

That's what we call a bullshit line.

First of most of us live in big cities and if you lost 10 friends tomorrow you can easily find 10 more people you like and can form friendships with. I met at least 50 - 100 new people every week.

Second, how many guys has she dated that if she would stop talking to them she would have no one to date? To add to that was she the kind of person that she couldn't have friends while dating and she spent her whole life dating thus ALL her friends are EXs? That is very unhealthy behavior that will cause her to depend on this guys her whole life...

Executive summary: run away, run away. (ok I got that one from dilbert.)

[azazels_wolf]

azazels_wolf your awesome but I got to go with buld on this one.


Thank you, but I want you to take another look at what you're saying, from another perspective:


If she used to fuck a dude and she is still friends with him. He is essentially a dick in a glass case. Break in case of emergency.


To be thinking about it in this way is a manifestation of insecurity. It is a flaw in inner game - if you were truly confident in yourself and the relationship, you wouldn't be worried about this. You wouldn't be wasting your time being insecure about it - you'd be enjoying your time with her and making sure she didn't feel the NEED to go back to another guy for sex. If you are satisfying all her needs, she won't need to look for another source of fulfilment. It is only when she feels a lack of some sort that she will actively seek out another sexual relationship - whether this lack be sexual, emotional, etc.

If you're worried about her cheating everytime an old friend of hers is around, is that relationship really as good as you think it is?


I dated a girl like that and even 8 years after the relationship she would get a call from her ex saying he dreams of fucking her. This was basically true of all her EXs (they just said it in different ways.)


And 5000 other men want to fuck her too. So? You're the prize.


Worse they all jabbed at me when ever they could. - Bad sign, shows they are jealous. Nothing is worse then jealous "friends" talking shit about you into her ear. Just think of a scenario where you fight and she goes to an EX for advice...


And why would you be fighting in the first place? Because the relationship isn't as good as you think it is? Is that relationship worth hanging on to?



Take a close look at this girl. How many of her friends are EXs? - Too many and it means she has trouble letting go. This also means she likes to force things into being something they are not.


So if you have too many people from your past in your life you have trouble letting go? I disagree, if those people happen to be WORTHY of having around.


Why is it that she has to hang on to that relationship? Was it a healthy break up because they decided it wasn't meant to be, aka we will make better friends? Or was it a long drawn out thing that left a deep and incurable scar.

Does she sometimes confuse her ex with you? - This means she is carrying over the unresolved issues of that relationship onto you.

Did she stop talking to them and then become friends years after they both got over it or was their friendship an extension of their relationship. - If it is the former then chances are they still have some baggage between them.

IF you have a negative answer for ANY of these. This is called a red flag. Don't be in a relationship with a girl that has huge red flags. Your just asking for pain.


And how would you feel if someone told your gf that she's just asking for pain because she got involved with you, because you happen to have unresolved issues or baggage from former relationships? This can easily become another double standard.


"If you walk away from everyone in your past, sooner or later you'll have no one to walk back to when you need someone."

That's what we call a bullshit line.


That's a bullshit line? Oh really? Huh.


First of most of us live in big cities and if you lost 10 friends tomorrow you can easily find 10 more people you like and can form friendships with. I met at least 50 - 100 new people every week.


Easy come, easy go huh? THOSE ARE NOT YOUR TRUE FRIENDS.

I'm talking about REAL friends. NOT acquaintances, NOT shallow interactions. REAL friends. The ones that stick around for years because they have an emotional connection with you.

THOSE are the people you should not walk away from. Because if you're ever desperate, or need something that no one else can give, those are the people who will be willing to help you. Those are the people WHO WILL GIVE A SHIT.

And if you think you should be walking away from those people just so you have no attachments to the past, someday you will know how painful it is to have no true friends, and to have someone you care about walk away from YOU just because you or they apparently don't give a shit.

If one of YOUR ex-gfs was a true friend of yours, would you dump your friend because your NEW gf asked you to because she's insecure and jealous? How would you feel about a demand like that?

Would you do it? Or would you be more likely to tell her to fuck off?

So why would you do the same to her?

[Raven]

Hi,

Maybe this is just me, but I find the popular type of girl with a million friends who has to pick up every call, and answer every text to be ANNOYING!!! Doesn't matter if it's male or female. When I'm with a woman I usually turn my cell off and expect her to do the same. Respect.

It's important, however, for her to have a few good friends that she gets to eventually, like when I have something to do. But those popular types I stay away from. Ugh!

[Sway]

To be thinking about it in this way is a manifestation of insecurity. It is a flaw in inner game - if you were truly confident in yourself and the relationship, you wouldn't be worried about this. You wouldn't be wasting your time being insecure about it - you'd be enjoying your time with her and making sure she didn't feel the NEED to go back to another guy for sex. If you are satisfying all her needs, she won't need to look for another source of fulfilment. It is only when she feels a lack of some sort that she will actively seek out another sexual relationship - whether this lack be sexual, emotional, etc.


I believe both of you are right. I agree with masterintraing: With my girl these guys are ALL emergency dick - every single one. The evidence fits that theory better than any other theory I can think of, and it also makes me feel better about the situation. I've been convinced of it for some time now. However, I also agree with azazels_wolf that worrying about her going back to them is a major insecurity flaw. I don't think any guy has the right to convince a girl to drop her ex boyfriends from her social life, and its a sign of insecurity to expect that.

However....

I'm secure in the fact that I blow all those other guys out of the water, and I'm also secure in the knowledge that she knows that if she broke my trust she will lose me forever - and won't even have a friendship with me. So, I'm not worried about what she might do with those other guys - they don't have a chance with her with me around.

The guy that she has the closest bond with is her first boyfriend, the one she lost her virginity to and was with for years. I have absolutely no problem with their friendship. I think its a very valuable and important friendship for her to have. I quite like the guy, even if he is an idiot and calls me "the Blimey" (I think he means limey - and I'm not even British!)

The ones that do bother me are the guys that she didn't think much of, and rarely says anything good about but keeps them around anyway. They are ZERO competition for me, but it makes me lose a little respect for her. Why does she have trouble letting go of such obvious douchebags? I don't particularly want to be friends with them, and it creeps me out to be around guys who could only get my girl into bed when she was really drunk, and even then could only finger bang her.

Also, I don't want to be around the guys who pretended to want to be her boyfriend, but just wanted sex. They're nice guys, but their view of my girlfriend is creepy, and obviously not one I share.

Now I'm sure there's an inner game issue here, and the ideal scenario would be to not care at all, but does anyone really feel like that? I've wondered if it was insecurity on my part but I really don't think so. The guy she would most likely have an affair with would be her first boyfriend yet I'm not worried about that at all. He's definitely emergency dick, and I can definitely envision a realistic scenario in which she'll fuck him, but since I've got game I know that won't happen while I'm around. So bottom line is, he's cool with me.

I'm only bothered by the creeps, simply because they're hanging around, and well ... they're creeps! Its bad game to point that out to her, so I don't. I secretly wish she'd realise how lame they are and stop letting them hang around, but I don't expect her to. I just make it clear to her, that they're her friends, not mine, so don't expect me to care about what's going on in their lives.

I make sure I'm the better man with the better game, and I have nothing to worry about.

[masterintraining]

Ok wolf lets go a bit deeper then.

If you are satisfying all her needs, she won't need to look for another source of fulfilment. It is only when she feels a lack of some sort that she will actively seek out another sexual relationship - whether this lack be sexual, emotional, etc.

1. Your behavior doesn't not dictate someone else behavior. All you can do is motivate or advertise to people. You can not control them, this also applies to things like happiness.

2. The fact of the matter is you could be the most alpha man on earth with the tightest game in history but there are just some people who are broken in side. Some women can't accept love and react by trying to mess up the relationship. Some women don't feel they are not worthy to be loved or have a partner of high caliber. Often times they look for situations or even opportunity to drive you away. It's as if they are proving to themselves that they can not be loved.

THEY have the deep inner game problems, and you can not fix it by having tighter game. Your only 2 options are to accept someone even if they do things to mess up the relationship or to simply not date people like this.

The point I'm trying to make is that you need to be picky about who you want to me be with. Example.


I secretly wish she'd realise how lame they are and stop letting them hang around, but I don't expect her to. I just make it clear to her, that they're her friends, not mine, so don't expect me to care about what's going on in their lives.


Sway, even though your game is strong you are wanting her to be something she is not. Your are putting your expectations on her, but all you will feel in this area is frustration because this is what she has chosen to be. Wanting her to be different will not change her. You either need to accept this or find another girl who doesn't have this problem.
---------------------------------------

I dated a girl like that and even 8 years after the relationship she would get a call from her ex saying he dreams of fucking her. This was basically true of all her EXs (they just said it in different ways.)


And 5000 other men want to fuck her too. So? You're the prize.


The point is there is something wrong with a girl who feels the need to fill her life only with people who are trying to use her or people who she once needed. It is normal to have some level of this in your life. But what I am talking about is someone who has nothing but this in her life.
---------------------------------------------

Worse they all jabbed at me when ever they could. - Bad sign, shows they are jealous. Nothing is worse then jealous "friends" talking shit about you into her ear. Just think of a scenario where you fight and she goes to an EX for advice...


And why would you be fighting in the first place? Because the relationship isn't as good as you think it is? Is that relationship worth hanging on to?


You must be drinking your own cool aid if you think it is possible to have a relationship with some level of conflict. I have not experienced a relationship free of some kind of problem nor have I ever spoken to a single couple on earth that has ZERO conflict. This is a normal and even healthy thing

But my pain point was that if ALL of her friends are pickled dicks who are jealous of you she is going to get constant pressure from everyone. This sort of thing will take it's toll over time. In fact that is what the EXs hope in order to get there second change or what ever. And I agree with Sway that something like that is just creepy. And a healthy women wouldn't take advice from creepy people let alone surround herself with creepy people.

The company you keep says alot about who you are.
-----------------------------------

Take a close look at this girl. How many of her friends are EXs? - Too many and it means she has trouble letting go. This also means she likes to force things into being something they are not.


So if you have too many people from your past in your life you have trouble letting go? I disagree, if those people happen to be WORTHY of having around.


It is my experience that when women have lots of these relationships, they tend to go from lover to friend and maintain elements of lover even years after the friendship has started. If she is not giving herself time to move on from the relationship and keeping these guys around then all she is really doing is building her own private harem.

It doesn't matter if they are good people, hopefully they are, but people normally can't go from relationship to lover in till time has pasted. In fact the chemicals in the brain meant to protect pair bounding stay in your system for 3 years (I'm not even considering the effect of memories.) So even just on a chemical level I would say you couldn't have a real friend still several years later anyways.
-----------------------------------

Why is it that she has to hang on to that relationship? Was it a healthy break up because they decided it wasn't meant to be, aka we will make better friends? Or was it a long drawn out thing that left a deep and incurable scar.

Does she sometimes confuse her ex with you? - This means she is carrying over the unresolved issues of that relationship onto you.

Did she stop talking to them and then become friends years after they both got over it or was their friendship an extension of their relationship. - If it is the former then chances are they still have some baggage between them.

IF you have a negative answer for ANY of these. This is called a red flag. Don't be in a relationship with a girl that has huge red flags. Your just asking for pain.


And how would you feel if someone told your gf that she's just asking for pain because she got involved with you, because you happen to have unresolved issues or baggage from former relationships? This can easily become another double standard.


This is not about double standards. We all have issues and things we are trying to grow past. BUT there is a HUGE difference when someone is trying to grow past these issues and someone who is unwilling to let them go and carry them into the future. More over if these issues come in the form of EXs who she still has in her life it is like she wants to continue reliving these issues for the secondary pay off.

ANY level of guy who has played this game knows that once you are in there, you have a life long pass to get back in even if only for a quick visit. And you know what, she knows it too. If she has to have TONS of people in her life like this there is something wrong.
------------------------------------------


That's a bullshit line? Oh really? Huh.

Yes it is.
------------------------------------



Easy come, easy go huh? THOSE ARE NOT YOUR TRUE FRIENDS.

I'm talking about REAL friends. NOT acquaintances, NOT shallow interactions. REAL friends. The ones that stick around for years because they have an emotional connection with you.

THOSE are the people you should not walk away from. Because if you're ever desperate, or need something that no one else can give, those are the people who will be willing to help you. Those are the people WHO WILL GIVE A SHIT.

And if you think you should be walking away from those people just so you have no attachments to the past, someday you will know how painful it is to have no true friends, and to have someone you care about walk away from YOU just because you or they apparently don't give a shit.

If one of YOUR ex-gfs was a true friend of yours, would you dump your friend because your NEW gf asked you to because she's insecure and jealous? How would you feel about a demand like that?

Would you do it? Or would you be more likely to tell her to fuck off?

So why would you do the same to her?

If it's done it's done. You need to walk away. There is nothing good about holding on to destructive relationships. People who choose to hold on to destructive relationships can never be whole and healthy, and you need to not date them (No matter how strong the emotional connection.)

If I had an ex that was purely a friend on both sides, then there is no reason to let go of this person. But thats not what I'm talking about, and no is Sway. IF someone feints friendship because they want something you they are NOT true friends.

It would be better to find healthier people and start building NEW and healthier friendships then old on to something fake.
-------------

I don't normally ask these sort of things Wolf, but in this last section you sound really bitter. Did someone kick you out of there lives and it hurt when they did that?

[azazels_wolf]

I'm secure in the fact that I blow all those other guys out of the water, and I'm also secure in the knowledge that she knows that if she broke my trust she will lose me forever - and won't even have a friendship with me. So, I'm not worried about what she might do with those other guys - they don't have a chance with her with me around.


Yeah, this is close to the viewpoint I was trying to express. This sort of security is important in an LTR unless you've already agreed to have an open/casual relationship.


The guy that she has the closest bond with is her first boyfriend, the one she lost her virginity to and was with for years. I have absolutely no problem with their friendship. I think its a very valuable and important friendship for her to have. I quite like the guy, even if he is an idiot and calls me "the Blimey" (I think he means limey - and I'm not even British!)

The ones that do bother me are the guys that she didn't think much of, and rarely says anything good about but keeps them around anyway. They are ZERO competition for me, but it makes me lose a little respect for her. Why does she have trouble letting go of such obvious douchebags? I don't particularly want to be friends with them, and it creeps me out to be around guys who could only get my girl into bed when she was really drunk, and even then could only finger bang her.


I do agree that we should distinguish between people who are truly important or worthy, vs douchebags who contribute nothing positive to her life. And I think that part of being a "protector of loved ones" is to let the loved one know when we think someone is having a detrimental influence on their life, and to discourage their contact with that person.


Also, I don't want to be around the guys who pretended to want to be her boyfriend, but just wanted sex. They're nice guys, but their view of my girlfriend is creepy, and obviously not one I share.

Now I'm sure there's an inner game issue here, and the ideal scenario would be to not care at all, but does anyone really feel like that? I've wondered if it was insecurity on my part but I really don't think so. The guy she would most likely have an affair with would be her first boyfriend yet I'm not worried about that at all. He's definitely emergency dick, and I can definitely envision a realistic scenario in which she'll fuck him, but since I've got game I know that won't happen while I'm around. So bottom line is, he's cool with me.

I'm only bothered by the creeps, simply because they're hanging around, and well ... they're creeps! Its bad game to point that out to her, so I don't. I secretly wish she'd realise how lame they are and stop letting them hang around, but I don't expect her to. I just make it clear to her, that they're her friends, not mine, so don't expect me to care about what's going on in their lives.

I make sure I'm the better man with the better game, and I have nothing to
worry about.

I agree. The point of inner game isn't to not care about ANYTHING.....
To attempt to break up a true friendship or push away people with a positive influence would be ignorant and hurtful....

....but I also think there is nothing wrong with having a discussion about the creeps once the relationship reaches a certain stage. The relationship should result in you two evolving as human beings, and that will always influence the people around you. If she is not evolving in a positive direction, and leaving behind some of the negative influences as a result, then the relationship needs to be re-evaluated and the communication possibly improved. She needs to become aware of how people are influencing her life, because those people will be henceforth influencing yours, indirectly.

[azazels_wolf]

1. Your behavior doesn't not dictate someone else behavior. All you can do is motivate or advertise to people. You can not control them, this also applies to things like happiness.

2. The fact of the matter is you could be the most alpha man on earth with the tightest game in history but there are just some people who are broken in side. Some women can't accept love and react by trying to mess up the relationship. Some women don't feel they are not worthy to be loved or have a partner of high caliber. Often times they look for situations or even opportunity to drive you away. It's as if they are proving to themselves that they can not be loved.

THEY have the deep inner game problems, and you can not fix it by having tighter game. Your only 2 options are to accept someone even if they do things to mess up the relationship or to simply not date people like this.


I agree with this. Though it IS possible over the long-term to help these types of women to become aware of what they're doing and break their victimization/abuse patterns and help them through their emotional problems. But this takes a lot of effort and long-term dedication, so this must be a person you truly love and have compassion for, otherwise you're better off moving on.



The point I'm trying to make is that you need to be picky about who you want to be with.


I completely agree. PUAs have CHOICE (and standards), and that choice should be exercised all the time.




The point is there is something wrong with a girl who feels the need to fill her life only with people who are trying to use her or people who she once needed. It is normal to have some level of this in your life. But what I am talking about is someone who has nothing but this in her life.


*nod* I agree. This is not healthy at all.



You must be drinking your own cool aid if you think it is possible to have a relationship with some level of conflict. I have not experienced a relationship free of some kind of problem nor have I ever spoken to a single couple on earth that has ZERO conflict. This is a normal and even healthy thing


Disagreements are not the same as fighting. Tension is not the same as conflict. There are ways to lovingly resolve issues or reach compromises that do not involve fighting, name-calling, and hurtful arguments.

I HAVE had relationships without any sort of fighting or hateful/resentful conflict. I strive for those. I like my own "cool aid," thank you very much. :D


But my pain point was that if ALL of her friends are pickled dicks who are jealous of you she is going to get constant pressure from everyone. This sort of thing will take it's toll over time. In fact that is what the EXs hope in order to get there second change or what ever. And I agree with Sway that something like that is just creepy. And a healthy women wouldn't take advice from creepy people let alone surround herself with creepy people.

The company you keep says alot about who you are.


Yes. Agreed again.




Take a close look at this girl. How many of her friends are EXs? - Too many and it means she has trouble letting go. This also means she likes to force things into being something they are not.

It is my experience that when women have lots of these relationships, they tend to go from lover to friend and maintain elements of lover even years after the friendship has started. If she is not giving herself time to move on from the relationship and keeping these guys around then all she is really doing is building her own private harem.


Some people, both women AND men, will try to retain all of their formers lovers as friends, instead of breaking up with them in a hateful or resentful manner. There is nothing wrong with this as long as all those people are WORTHY of her friendship. But in some of the previously discussed situations, some of those guys may indeed be creepy and negatively influencing her, and she shouldn't be clinging to those types.



It doesn't matter if they are good people, hopefully they are, but people normally can't go from relationship to lover in till time has pasted. In fact the chemicals in the brain meant to protect pair bounding stay in your system for 3 years (I'm not even considering the effect of memories.) So even just on a chemical level I would say you couldn't have a real friend still several years later anyways.


Friendship can INCLUDE intense pair bonding. I don't think this is something to be concerned about, as long as the former lover isn't a creep.


This is not about double standards. We all have issues and things we are trying to grow past. BUT there is a HUGE difference when someone is trying to grow past these issues and someone who is unwilling to let them go and carry them into the future. More over if these issues come in the form of EXs who she still has in her life it is like she wants to continue reliving these issues for the secondary pay off.


It's a double standard if you want her to cut her ties to the past but you are not. It's a double standard if you are not willing to put up with her unresolved issues and baggage, but you expect her to put up with yours. As long as you hold her to the same standards you hold yourself to, there isn't a problem. It's a personal decision.


ANY level of guy who has played this game knows that once you are in there, you have a life long pass to get back in even if only for a quick visit. And you know what, she knows it too. If she has to have TONS of people in her life like this there is something wrong.


As long as you aren't also keeping a bunch of girls on the auto-dialer with which to do the same at a moment's notice. Again, it's about holding her to the same standards as yourself. If you don't want her to have tons of people in her life from the past, then be prepared not to have tons of girls with this "life long pass."


------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by azazels_wolf View Post
That's a bullshit line? Oh really? Huh.

Yes it is.
------------------------------------


Then I don't think you've seen the things that I have seen. You haven't been through the desperation and pain and helplessness that I've seen undeserving people go through, with no one to turn to. Someday you'll understand.



If it's done it's done. You need to walk away. There is nothing good about holding on to destructive relationships. People who choose to hold on to destructive relationships can never be whole and healthy, and you need to not date them (No matter how strong the emotional connection.)

If I had an ex that was purely a friend on both sides, then there is no reason to let go of this person. But thats not what I'm talking about, and no is Sway. IF someone feints friendship because they want something you they are NOT true friends.

It would be better to find healthier people and start building NEW and healthier friendships then old on to something fake.


I agree - the key here is DESTRUCTIVE relationships and fake friendships. If the relationship is constructive and the friendship true, there is no reason to walk away.


I don't normally ask these sort of things Wolf, but in this last section you sound really bitter. Did someone kick you out of there lives and it hurt when they did that?

A far more complicated and difficult set of events which I'm not going to disclose here. I have seen the best in people and the worst in people. True love and compassion as well as brutal ignorance. I have compassion for those who have suffered as a result of someone else's ignorance, hate, or greed, while at the same time I strive to help others empower themselves. I'm not bitter so much as aware of the potentials within human nature. I believe that we should strive not to hurt others through our own ignorance.

[masterintraining]

It's good to now that we agree on so much Azazels.



Disagreements are not the same as fighting. Tension is not the same as conflict. There are ways to lovingly resolve issues or reach compromises that do not involve fighting, name-calling, and hurtful arguments.

I HAVE had relationships without any sort of fighting or hateful/resentful conflict. I strive for those. I like my own "cool aid," thank you very much. :D


Then congrats, because I've never heard of such a thing and all the psychologist I know say that some amount of conflict is healthy.



Friendship can INCLUDE intense pair bonding. I don't think this is something to be concerned about, as long as the former lover isn't a creep.


I agree, except when one or both of the friends still has a strong drive or need for the other person in a sexual or relationship kind of way. I believe if that is the case they still need sometime a part before they can have a healthy friendship. On the flip some people may never be able to do this.


It's a double standard if you want her to cut her ties to the past but you are not. It's a double standard if you are not willing to put up with her unresolved issues and baggage, but you expect her to put up with yours. As long as you hold her to the same standards you hold yourself to, there isn't a problem. It's a personal decision.


I don't do double standards, i wouldn't ask a girl do to something I wouldn't do myself. In regards to baggage, I mean sometimes people like to hop into a relationship very quickly and normally they have not been able to fix there issues or pains to any real degree. While some people make this a life long habit, I suggest not to do this to people, nor to date people who are going to do it to you and themselves.




Then I don't think you've seen the things that I have seen. You haven't been through the desperation and pain and helplessness that I've seen undeserving people go through, with no one to turn to. Someday you'll understand.


Actually I've been through alot of shit in my day and in fact am going through tons of shit now. But what I do know is not to hold on to unhealthy relationships that suck my life away even if I need help. You reap what you sow. I'd rather have it harder now, then use the quick fix of someone who will just leave me worse off or not move me forward in life.

Sometimes this path is lonely, but every time I do it i find higher caliber people in my life. On the flip sometimes the people I used to know change in time or see how I have grown and are inspired to grow themselves and relationships can be rebuilt.


I agree - the key here is DESTRUCTIVE relationships and fake friendships. If the relationship is constructive and the friendship true, there is no reason to walk away.


In regards to the original post he is talking about destructive or potentially destructive people in her life that she hangs on to. Chances are he can't change her so my advice is to let her go.


A far more complicated and difficult set of events which I'm not going to disclose here. I have seen the best in people and the worst in people. True love and compassion as well as brutal ignorance. I have compassion for those who have suffered as a result of someone else's ignorance, hate, or greed, while at the same time I strive to help others empower themselves. I'm not bitter so much as aware of the potentials within human nature. I believe that we should strive not to hurt others through our own ignorance.

Life can be rough, but I'm glad it has not totally jaded you. That sort of things shines through and girls will be able to pick it up. Plus it slows you down and limits your ability to enjoy the present.

[azazels_wolf]

Yeah, I'm glad we've found so much common ground here. :) And other people get to see two different perspectives that meet at a central idea.... so I'm pleased with this discussion.



Then congrats, because I've never heard of such a thing and all the psychologist I know say that some amount of conflict is healthy.


I think conflict can be healthy if approached from a loving, compassionate standpoint, with the true intention of accomplishing a positive intent, rather than simply placing blame, pointing the finger, and gratifying the ego. Like I said, two people who are supposed to love each other can be in disagreement without fighting or hurting each other.



Actually I've been through alot of shit in my day and in fact am going through tons of shit now. But what I do know is not to hold on to unhealthy relationships that suck my life away even if I need help. You reap what you sow. I'd rather have it harder now, then use the quick fix of someone who will just leave me worse off or not move me forward in life.

Sometimes this path is lonely, but every time I do it i find higher caliber people in my life. On the flip sometimes the people I used to know change in time or see how I have grown and are inspired to grow themselves and relationships can be rebuilt.


Yeah, I agree with this. My point was about not walking away from people who really do care about you and wish you the best. It's not healthy or loving to push people away who are simply trying to help you or be there for you because they have a bond with you.



Life can be rough, but I'm glad it has not totally jaded you. That sort of things shines through and girls will be able to pick it up. Plus it slows you down and limits your ability to enjoy the present.

Indeed, I think we should learn from the past but live in the present moment, enjoying it fully, applying the lessons we've learned, and embracing all the experiences and opportunities it offers us NOW instead of dwelling on pain from the past. If we live in the past we become blind to what the world offers us today.

[Mark_Dice]

I was going to start a new thread on this until I found this one. Here's my take. Girls with guy friends are trouble. Dating them is one thing. Once a LTR has formed, then its a whole new game.

When two people are in a committed relationship, especially if they are in love, then they must distance themselves from all friends of the opposite sex, and redefine the term “friend” in those cases. Both you and your girlfriend should, and must, replace the value that each of you received from such friendships.

Those friendships fill particular needs that we have, although not all of our needs, or they wouldn’t be “friends,” they would become “significant others.” As harsh as it sounds, when in a committed relationship, friends of the opposite sex must be redefined. Guys have guy friends, and girls have girl friends, period. It is completely unacceptable, in most cases, for your girlfriend to hang out with a “guy friend” or to even talk with him on the phone, for that matter. The guy friend probably wants to have sex with her anyway. It is also unacceptable for you to do the same with a female friend.

How many happily married couples do you know where the wife hangs out with the neighbor’s husband or with some “guy friend” she’s had for years? It doesn’t happen, and it shouldn’t.

[azazels_wolf]

Older, mature, socially calibrated people tend to have a large social circle. These social circles can include members of the opposite sex. These friendships can include anything from business/career contacts, artistic and creative partnerships, research/study groups, and school buddies you grew up with.

To expect your significant other to just suddenly drop these because you decide to commit is unrealistic and, frankly, cold-hearted. See how it feels next time someone who supposedly cares about you tries to force you to do the same.

If you two socially isolate yourselves and do not properly keep in touch with important people in your lives who actually enjoy your company and put in some effort to maintain the connection, you will someday notice that no one seems to want to have anything you do with you. Just because someone happens to be of the opposite sex does not automatically qualify them for being pushed out of your or her life.

[machiavelli1527]

Alright, so the girl I'm dating right now has a lot of guy friends, that's pretty much all she hangs out with. Is it wrong for me to be insecure and jealous... I mean there's always that thing in the back of my head telling me that maybe she is up to something. I mean I don't think she is doing anything with any of them right now because i'm over here house damn near every night but when ever I see some of these friends coming around I always have the same thought in my head, " I wonder if she fucked this guy at one point..." Also it pisses me off when she gets text from guys... Those are like the only people that text her. I don't let my insecurity show for the most part but I'm sure it peaks it's way through from time to time. What do you guys think about the subject? Would you date a girl that had a lot of guy friends?

Also, last night we get drunk we have sex then she falls asleep. I wake her up to set her alarm on her phone and she's still drunk. While she's doing that I notice that she starts texting. Now who the hell wakes up out of a dead sleep @ 2:30 am and starts texting. We don't look at each others texts but I kinda saw the screen from the distance and I'm 90% sure it said " Brian" on there and my name is "Chris"... I called her on it and I asked her who she was texting, she said she was texting me, but I know it was bullshyt. She sent me a text after she texted this other guy. I mean, I'm practically over this girls house everynight but still, texting a guy @ 2:30 am doesn't really sound like just friends to me.

There's no one size fits all meaning or implication to this or any singular behavior. Context always has to be filtered in. The context here starts with your girl and why she has 'so many guy friends' rather than a ton of friends, some guys, some girls.

Find out why she has few girl friends and doesn't enjoy their company near as much as she enjoys her male friends. I've always been a bit leery of women that other women don't like, and I suspect you can learn as much or more about her from drawing out her thoughts on girls and other girls' thoughts on her. Set something up with a couple of your female friends, have them bring dates too so she wont be threathened by them and watch who she focuses on . . .your female friends or their guys. Afterwards get your girls' thoughts on her.

Think of it this way, wouldn't you have some questions about a guy who had few male friends? That to me is the only real yellow flag in this thing, that in your words guys are pretty much all she hangs out with.

If you have satisfying answers to why her friend circle is so heavily male, the rest is just detail . . . txting male friends at 2:30am? Doesn't have to be a big deal at all, since you're with this girl every evening and night. She is making a choice to spend time with you that in the past might have been spent with some of them. You've won the thing that matters, but that doesn't mean she no longer enjoys her friends, some of whom may have been in her life over the course of several relationships and who she wants to keep in her life beyond whatever may happen with you and her. She's gonna find time for them . . . so some of that time comes while you're asleep, but again, when you're awake she'd rather spend time with you. She's maybe just making good use of her time.

As for the Brian thing, and then sending you a txt to cover her tracks or whatever . . . non comfrontational girls will hide anything that they sense will cause discomfort in a relationship if it isn't hidden. If you introduce discomfort she in turn may respond with deceit. Doesn't matter how innocent the thing is, if she equates it with displeasure on your part she's gonna do what she has to do. To use an example, if a guy thinks his girl is being taken advantage of by her sister who calls every day with drama from her marriage, and the guy tells her forcefully enough, and often enough to not let herself get pulled into sis's life, some girls will be more apt to go right along with what she wants to do there while hiding it from the guy.

Not everything a girl hides involves a guy she's screwing or wants to screw . . .all it has to be is something that she feels with screw up her relationship if she doesn't obscure it a bit. Many times a guy's attitude towards people and stuff in a girl's life determines how much of her life she is up front about with the guy.

[DailyDragger92]

well similar to the question a girl i am now talking to has a lot of guy friends and she says she has cheated before. Can she be trusted???

[machiavelli1527]

well similar to the question a girl i am now talking to has a lot of guy friends and she says she has cheated before. Can she be trusted???

The fact that someone has cheated doesn't mean that they're destined to cheat in any relationship irrespective of the dynamics of that relationship, just as the fact that someone hasn't cheated yet doesn't mean they never will.

The broader of question of can she be trusted . . . do you know with 100% certainty that you can be? All of us as people can say there are things we'd never do. Sometimes we can indeed go our lives never doing those things. Other times we change or circumstances we'd not anticipated arise and our actions surprise us. IMO the issue is seldom 'can someone be trusted' so much as 'are the rewards of a trusting relationship with this person worth pursuing?'

[Eyez]

Bro it all depends on who the guys are.

Ask her about what they've done together.

My gf had a couple of guy friends,I put that shit to an end.

I asked her about her friends,and she told me one story how they would play drunk games like strip poker. First things first,when your friends of the opposite sex,you don't see each other with any clothes missing unless the guys gay.

Some girls are dumb when it comes to guy friends,so ask about them,and see if they're sleeze balls or if they're cool.

[Incessant]

Why would you fucking care? If you are scared for her fucking other guys, oh my god then you are far from alpha my friend. Means you're putting more value in her than you are putting in yourself.

Come on man, configure your mind.. FOR ONCE! ;)