Who Would You Choose To Take a Boot Camp From? Venusian Arts or Mystery Method?

[Mojo]

Interesting poll going on at Style Life:

http://www.stylelife.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=21773


The Mystery Method(even without Mystery in it)
or
VenusianArts(the new Mystery Company+Lovedrop&Matador)

[Q-Pid]

I think this is bad form. There's a lawsuit between each party right now and there are talented trainers on each side of the fence.

I'd probably consider them all equall. Though Mystery would get the nod because he started it all. Ultimately none of this matters. I'd go with the group that had the most favourable reviews - and i've not heard anything bad form either side.

[TripleSeven]

It's a no-brainer that basic word association would have us want to learn about the Mystery Method with Mystery himself. But when choosing a bootcamp, Q-Pid is on the mark. You'd want to go with the one with the most favorable reviews or just talk with some people and find which instructor would be most congruent with your personal style. From what I hear though, both are great, I doubt you could go wrong either way.

[Rich]

Could turn into a Price war. Money talks and if both are equal money wins. It will be the battle of Review vs. Lowest price?

Stay Tuned,

Rich.

[Scythe42]

Tak a BC from the instructor whose style is most compatible with your type of game and is many levels above your skill.

But usually the person giving the seminar is not the one supporting you in the field. Been there, done that and in the end went for money back guarantee. The coach simply couldn't adjust to my game and my needs and tried to force his game upon me.

It is a common misconception that the gurus are way too good and it's better the learn from approach coaches because they are not so far away from your level and can relate to your issues better. It is always easier to learn from the best 'cause they have a better understading of the big picture and teach you what you really need to know. They can relate better to you because they remember where they come from and also remember the stages through which you will go next. The average approach coach is not capable of that.

Only a real master in his field can do that. He can explain things easy because he is so far away from a student's problem that it is actually not a problem for him anymore. He shows you the solution with easy and make the understanding of the bigger picture stick with you, so that you can solve the next big problem yourself easier. Always try to learn from the best.

This is one thing I learned from doing 18+ months of seminars (non PU related). The customers requested me more and more. I couldn't bring the students to my level but they alwas left the seminar on a new level of understanding. I already knew the plateaus that were coming and prepared them for these. I did not only gave them the tools but a better understanding of them and how to make the most out of the knowledge in the long run.

But let's see what VA will have to offer in the next weeks/months. Maybe I finally find the BC that is worth the price of admission for me. Should any guru whose game is compatible with me should do an in field workshop again, I'll be there for sure...

In general what is missing in commercial offers is a workshop for people who already have a decent skill. Workshops targeting the masses of AFC/rAFC don't cut it anymore - at least for my needs.

[Limelight]

Tak a BC from the instructor whose style is most compatible with your type of game and is many levels above your skill.

But usually the person giving the seminar is not the one supporting you in the field. Been there, done that and in the end went for money back guarantee. The coach simply couldn't adjust to my game and my needs and tried to force his game upon me.

It is a common misconception that the gurus are way too good and it's better the learn from approach coaches because they are not so far away from your level and can relate to your issues better. It is always easier to learn from the best 'cause they have a better understading of the big picture and teach you what you really need to know. They can relate better to you because they remember where they come from and also remember the stages through which you will go next. The average approach coach is not capable of that.

Only a real master in his field can do that. He can explain things easy because he is so far away from a student's problem that it is actually not a problem for him anymore. He shows you the solution with easy and make the understanding of the bigger picture stick with you, so that you can solve the next big problem yourself easier. Always try to learn from the best.

This is one thing I learned from doing 18+ months of seminars (non PU related). The customers requested me more and more. I couldn't bring the students to my level but they alwas left the seminar on a new level of understanding. I already knew the plateaus that were coming and prepared them for these. I did not only gave them the tools but a better understanding of them and how to make the most out of the knowledge in the long run.

But let's see what VA will have to offer in the next weeks/months. Maybe I finally find the BC that is worth the price of admission for me. Should any guru whose game is compatible with me should do an in field workshop again, I'll be there for sure...

In general what is missing in commercial offers is a workshop for people who already have a decent skill. Workshops targeting the masses of AFC/rAFC don't cut it anymore - at least for my needs.
Why don't you go for a 1 on 1? I think that would be the best for you

[Mehow]

My favorite instructor is hands down lovedrop. he mentored me for a year and turned me into a machine (along with a bunch of other people and a lot of work). i have seen just about every guy in the MM crew teach (Future, Sinn, Savoy, Style, Mystery, Matador, Hawaii, and a bunch of other ACs) in lecture and/or in field and in my humble opinion Lovedrop is my favorite. That said, all of the VA guys rock.

[Affection]

Pretty much a ditto to Mehow. :)

~~Affection

[Mehow]

That said, I highly recommend Lovedrop, Matador, Mystery, Hawaii ... they are the guys I have the most experience with and they are all excellent. Lovedrop is just my personal favorite.

-m

[*** Mathew Stone ***]

I'm one of the few people on this board who has met and hung out with everyone mentioned in this thread, so I'll give you my honest opinion.

LD and Matador are by far the two best instructors I've ever seen.

Mystery is a fucking trip and has dropped jewles on me that have changed my life forever.

Sinn is a douchebag.

Future has awesome gay game... respect to him for that, but it's not my style.


Best,
MS

[Scythe42]

Why don't you go for a 1 on 1? I think that would be the best for you
Some custom (not just simple 1 on 1) BC might be an option. Maybe when I'm spending some time in Vegas again. Always have a good time there. But in general I prefer small groups for any learning expierence. Gives yourself a bit more room and you don't have the instructor breathing down your neck all the time. Too much attention from an instructor is as bad as not enough attention. In the end it's all about having a good time and get as much out of it as possible regarding the own skill level.

Let's wait who in VA will be available in the future and what the conditions are. Hope Lovedrop will be, he is the instructor I think will be most benificial for me (from what I heard from others). I once met him in a club back when I was beginning with PU. Just exchanged a few casual sentences after I burned a few feet away from him. Back then I didn't recognize him. Seemed to be a cool guy. But on the other hand you can never know for sure until actually being in field with someone.

[Affection]

lol :) Sinn was always nice to me for some reason. Last time I saw Future, on the other hand, he went into a tirade on how I was stealing all his students.

I'm one of the few people on this board who has met and hung out with everyone mentioned in this thread, so I'll give you my honest opinion.

LD and Matador are by far the two best instructors I've ever seen.

Mystery is a fucking trip and has dropped jewles on me that have changed my life forever.

Sinn is a douchebag.

Future has awesome gay game... respect to him for that, but it's not my style.


Best,
MS

~~Affection

[Smurk]

I personally think both companies are Legit, yeah some mishaps DO happen, at the end of the day BOTH companies are bangin-Literally. I'm yet to see Matador or Lovedrop in action, I'd dish out the cash if the bootcamp was ran by Mystery, since, it was HIS method since day 1. 'Savoy' Method DOES have some bangers too, Sinn. But hands down, Venusian Arts would snatch my cash. That's fact.


__________________
Dont Smurk

[Sheriff]

One thing I'm really really hoping will happen with this forum is that it'll become the premier place to exchange information on PU.

Know what kills all the other forums?

Negativity
Guys competing with each other
Cynicism

It's up to YOU GUYS to decide what kind of forum you want this to be. You can make that choice RIGHT NOW by going and posting something positive on another thread, or by posting another negative 'punchy' message on this one.

Come on guys, let's make this place ROCK. :D

-sheriff

[Diebold]

Mystery. Because I don't know any of the assholes at TMM. I've seen how Mystery is in videos, and can only imagine how powerful the knowledge would be in person.

[Greystoke]

Not to offend anybody here, but I would go for Savoy's company's bootcamp simply for the fact that their instructors have more recent teaching experience under their belt.

I know that Mystery would be an awesome guru for me to try to pick his brains, but he's barely run any bootcamps last year, and I dont know how good Matador and Lovedrop are at training newbies. Does anybody have any bootcamp reviews of those two? Being a mPUA is one thing, being a teacher is another.

Besides, it's likely that Mystery would charge a lot more to be in his bootcamp. Am I right or wrong?

[nForce]

Not to offend anybody here, but I would go for Savoy's company's bootcamp simply for the fact that their instructors have more recent teaching experience under their belt.

I know that Mystery would be an awesome guru for me to try to pick his brains, but he's barely run any bootcamps last year, and I dont know how good Matador and Lovedrop are at training newbies. Does anybody have any bootcamp reviews of those two? Being a mPUA is one thing, being a teacher is another.

Besides, it's likely that Mystery would charge a lot more to be in his bootcamp. Am I right or wrong?

You forget one thing; both Mystery and Lovedrop combined have taught a hell of alot of gurus, this peaks volumes bro

[Future Version One]

Being moderated on here won't kill me. I chose my loyalties, and my choice doesn't keep me up at night.

Stan and Chris, I considered both of you very dear friends. I'm sorry things turned out the way they did.

Erik, you did more for my game than any other single person. My sex life practically quintupled from the moment I took my boot camp with you. I am very good at my job. I get laid by beautiful women all the time, and I love teaching men how to do the same. I owe you a lot. I'm sorry it's come down the way it has. All three of you are welcome in my home in New York, London, or Tampa any time.

Matt Stone:

"Future has awesome gay game... respect to him for that, but it's not my style."

Do you have any idea what the Hell you're talking about? I don't even know who you are, flea.
Wow, yeah, I came off gay during my first year in the community.
What were YOU like?

If you want my cast-offs since then, I will send them your way. They include models, strippers, doctors, and lawyers, women of myriad creeds and nationalities among their number. I post lay reports and pictures. I make no effort to hide my real name.

You don't know me from Adam.
Shut up.

(The True Blue PUAs here are going, "OMFG LOL! Teh_Future from MM is qualifying himself! VA 0wnz0rs!"
In other circles what I'm doing is known as a "counter-argument.")

Affection:
Be very careful how you speak to and about me, little man. You live in my city and go to my venues. You WILL see me again, and you know it.

RSD has the courtesy to keep their mouths shut around our students in the field. We return the favor. Not you, though. You're just so damned bold. You leer like a Cheshire cat when asked to walk away, and you hold your hands up saying, "But what did I do?"

What is it with PUAs thinking they can use frame control and throw up a smoke screen when they're obviously in the wrong?
We can treat sex and relationships with women like a game, but no matter how many times you smile and claim innocence with a straight-face, you know EXACTLY why your behavior was unacceptable.

You were actively trying to poach students; they said as much.
You knew what you signed.
You knew why it would make people angry.
You knew how confusing it would be to our students.
You knew all this, but now you try to tap-dance on the razor's edge of doubt to make it appear otherwise.

To deny is to confirm what I already knew: You are untrustworthy. It does not surprise me that you consort with others unworthy of trust.

But I don't want to make this a thing. I can man up.
Let's try to rise above our differences.
I'll be at Chelsea Piers Monday evening at 6PM.
Meet me there; if you're not a member, you can be my guest.
We'll throw some gloves on, go five rounds, and the loser can donate $1000 to the AIDS Clinical Research Association.
I mean, you're man enough to throw your love affairs in the faces of girls who care about you.
You're man enough to try to sleaze your way into our customer base.
You're man enough to teach the Venutian Arts. (Not a spelling error. Just basic linguistics.)
Surely you're man enough to take out a fat kid like me.

Mehow:
"i have seen just about every guy in the MM crew teach (Future..."

Hunh?
What the crap?
Dude, why in the world would you speak publicly in any way about me?
This is like you talking about my first grade teacher. You have no idea what you're talking about.

I dislike you, and I don't respect you, but it's entirely personal, not business. I think you're a weasel. Even that assessment is from a VERY limited actual in-person interaction. You have a way of the night about you, and you have publicly acted in ways that I find morally questionable, never mind the inter-company stuff we can't talk about for legal reasons.

That's personal. Some people are assholes.
Professionally, I have very little to say. Good on you, as far as I'm concerned.

You seemed to have decent attraction game-- I didn't say "flash game"; I am not trying to denigrate your work-- for the brief time I saw you in-field. And you seem to do well enough in the first 5-10 minutes of your videos. But videos are a spotty way to assess anyone's game since they never seem to encompass the tiny ways real game shows through. Good game does not show up on video. We both know this. (Your eyeglasses recording is shit, but everyone has a bad day.)

You have seen NOTHING of me.

NOTHING.

You have never, ever seen me lead a boot camp in the classroom. (Rambling for five minutes or reciting a routine doesn't count.)

You have never, ever talked to me about game, because I don't like talking about game with anyone who's not paying me. I like talking about... oh I dunno... anything else. ("An intellectual is someone who has found something more interesting than sex." -Edgar Wallace)

That weekend in Miami Stan told me to assess you, and I did as much as I felt was necessary. You held set, girls laughed, and students liked you. Good enough for me. But unless you were hanging out in the rafters a la Spider-Man, you saw me in the field for MAYBE fifteen minutes. Same as I saw you. You never saw me work in Las Vegas, just as I never saw you.

I have videos and a slew of proud posts and fifteen minutes of in-field interaction from you.
You have a BLINK of in-field time from me.
You know NOTHING.

If I start putting out videos from the field, and if I start holding my life to the microscope the way you have, the playing field might be different. But for now, you know less of my game than anyone who has ever worked next to me.

You want to assess the MM instructors, stick with what you know. Don't spit lies and hold allegiance to a good friend (for those who don't know, Chris and Mehow are very close friends) when you're only throwing your thirty pieces to Mammon.

You don't know me, sir, so please refrain from mentioning me. Ever. I'll return the favor.

PS.-- Pete, sorry for straddling the line of negativity. You are obviously welcome any time, any place, any situation whatsoever. I respect you trying to cool the flames. Me love you long time. :-D

[Affection]

lol are you seriously challenging me to a fight because I said you got pissed at me for trying to steal your students? Whatever dude... I'm not about to have a physical fight over who's the better PUA, better man, or whatever it is that you're trying to say.

Note however: I didn't try to steal your students; I didn't ask for their contact, give mine, or so much as mention my Web site. I did, however, tell them that you and Sinn are talented guys, and that they'll learn a lot from you both. Though I doubt you'll accept them or their sincerity, my apologies if I confused your students.

...and, for what it's worth, since you pointed it out to me, I'd made efforts to not "throw [my] love affairs in the faces of girls who care about" me. It's worked much better... thx for that advice. :)


Affection:
Be very careful how you speak to and about me, little man. You live in my city and go to my venues. You WILL see me again, and you know it.

RSD has the courtesy to keep their mouths shut around our students in the field. We return the favor. Not you, though. You're just so damned bold. You leer like a Cheshire cat when asked to walk away, and you hold your hands up saying, "But what did I do?"

What is it with PUAs thinking they can use frame control and throw up a smoke screen when they're obviously in the wrong?
We can treat sex and relationships with women like a game, but no matter how many times you smile and claim innocence with a straight-face, you know EXACTLY why your behavior was unacceptable.

You were actively trying to poach students; they said as much.
You knew what you signed.
You knew why it would make people angry.
You knew how confusing it would be to our students.
You knew all this, but now you try to tap-dance on the razor's edge of doubt to make it appear otherwise.

To deny is to confirm what I already knew: You are untrustworthy. It does not surprise me that you consort with others unworthy of trust.

But I don't want to make this a thing. I can man up.
Let's try to rise above our differences.
I'll be at Chelsea Piers Monday evening at 6PM.
Meet me there; if you're not a member, you can be my guest.
We'll throw some gloves on, go five rounds, and the loser can donate $1000 to the AIDS Clinical Research Association.
I mean, you're man enough to throw your love affairs in the faces of girls who care about you.
You're man enough to try to sleaze your way into our customer base.
You're man enough to teach the Venutian Arts. (Not a spelling error. Just basic linguistics.)
Surely you're man enough to take out a fat kid like me.


~~Affection

[Lovedrop]

much love and respect to Future, my friend.
to everyone: please let's all speak positively and try to add value to the discussion. drama is a waste of emotional energy.

[Greystoke]

affection and future,
I dont know any of you but please take your bickering on thundercat's blog or in-field. I probably speak for some people here that we dont want any more PUA/PUGs childish quarrels that are throwing a bad vibe on learning and sharing the game.

peace,
Greystoke

[JimSmith]

wow what a lengthy public rant against other PUA's Future.

Anyways, where are pictures of your girls or any kind of evidence of your skills before you start bashing mehow for actually putting up some videos for the community. I bet if you put up some videos anyone could criticize it the same way.

I'm surprised how you would repeat yourself 3 times about how mehow knows "NOTHING" about your game and he should never speak about you when he simply mentioned how he seen you in field before. What the hell is your problem?? That just shows how bitchy you can be about someone you barely even know, you have some issues in the head bro. 2 words for you, anger management.

Now i dont usually do this nor do i intend to feed the fire anymore but this is something that im surprised you even publicly mentioned:
"I dont like talking to anyone about game unless they pay me."
Then maybe you should fuck off this forum and keep your drama in your own ass. (thats just my opinion, i know it wouldnt make u shut up) You have nothing to offer the community unless you can make some money from it. There's nothing wrong with making a living, but you wouldn't even do it unless it could help you out.

[Style]

Lets play nice?

[BonJovi]

I took my MM seminar with Lovedrop and Matador, also in attendence were Affection, Dynamic and Mystery. A few other people dropped by but I didn't see them in field. I've also spent a night running group / entourage game with Mehow and a friend.

It seems like I was lucky to have Matador teaching my seminar since he came across as very alpha and masculine which appears to be a big concern in the community. I did meet some instructors in field that appeared to be gay or atleast bi-sexual, not only in body language but because of some of the things they said.

The most important thing I took away from meeting instructors was not to choose based on the school. But try to learn about the instructors, how do they normally dress? What are their interest and past work experiences? Try to learn about their life experiences and figure out if their strengths match your weaknesses?

I'm a short guy so the body language and frame that I learned from Matador has helped my game a great deal.

If you are a 44yr old investment banker you probably don't want to take a seminar from a 21yr old instructor who has never held a corporate job let alone a full time job before in his life.

[DarkPrince]

I skipped through all the long posts.. but Presonally I would rather take it with the people who have been in the community as long. and VA seems to fit that catagory since all the classic mentores will be in charge of the boot camps.

Im always up for cool people though, Overall in my life I have surrounded myself only with people who I can learn from and make me better, so if you wanan learn something, might as well learn from the best :)

[Jack Tripper]

I'm one of the few people on this board who has met and hung out with everyone mentioned in this thread, so I'll give you my honest opinion.

LD and Matador are by far the two best instructors I've ever seen.

Mystery is a fucking trip and has dropped jewles on me that have changed my life forever.

Sinn is a douchebag.

Future has awesome gay game... respect to him for that, but it's not my style.


Best,
MS

Sorry for off-topic, but maybe it will lighten the mood. :)

Is this the same Sinn, that was Mysterys good friend and instructor during the early days of MM? Style mentioned him in his book.

[Mojo]

^

To the best of my knowledge, yes it is.

[Limelight]

No, the PUA in "the game" was Sin. And is another person

[Mojo]

^

Glad I put that disclaimer "to the best of my knowledge" in ;)

[AJNY]

Hey,
Its AJ. Glad to see you here Bonjovi. You have had some great posts on the other lounge. I've learned a lot from what you have written. I'll add my thoughts to this thread.

I think it is best to learn from as many people as possible as
you can learn something from each of the top guys.

Each of them have suggestions and skills that you can build into your skillset.

I took my MM BC with Matador, Future, Ajax, J-Dog, and Hawaii.
Matador was Master Instructor. Matador's ability to turn on a set (light them up) and look like the coolest most alpha guy in the room was awesome.
I arrived at the club before he did, spottest some of the hottest girls, and eventually Matatdor got around to gaming all of these amazing women. They seemed pretty happy with him. It was truly inspirational. My MM BC was in January of 2006.

Since Matador is in his mid twenties and he is huge (like 6'3 or something and like 225 pounds) I wasn't sure how closely I could duplicate his results, but he ceratinly opened my eyes to what was possible. Since my brother was a huge bodybuilder and had no game, Matador's results were eye opening.

I also liked the fact that he was a CS Java programmer tech guy and Indian
who turned himself into this Master Instructor. I figured maybe I could eventually duplicate his results and become like a "Mini-Matador."
A couple other things I got from Matador were the importance of voice tonality (he suggested voice lessons) and some fashion tips (he said "I looked like someone's father").

Matador's lectures are very tight as well. He adheres to the schedule and doesn't get off track, at least from the lectures I have heard of his.

I only went out one night of the MM BC as my tinnitus and earaches prevented me from doing a second night of clubbing with these guys at Pacha.

I also got great suggestions from J-Dog (clothing and peacocking), Hawaii (approach anxiety) and Ajax (take improv). Those guys are more like me physically, and they were all helpful. I didn't have much time to spend with Future as he was handling the other students.

I got more ideas from Future later on about comedy, voice lessons, accents, improv, etc. He was very generous. He gave myself and Flare and a few other guys a mini seminar (for free) before the actual seminar. The fact that he is of normal size (around 5'9 ish, and slightly overweight) and not rich makes him a great inspiration for those of us not built like mystery, lovedrop, matador, and savoy. I think he may still be a student at in one of the colleges here in NYC. I think he also lives in one of these small apts in NYC (I think this is what I saw in one of the pics he posted in his journal) which shows you don't have to live in a Penthouse on Park Avenue to get a hot girl.

Future has also made large contributions at other events in NYC recently, and from what I have heard he has made them in the past. When Sinn was in NYC he dropped by as well and made some contributions, especially on text messaging and when you have to chase girls vs. getting them to chase you.

Future has posted on at least two other forum pictures of his girls and LR's. One of these forums is open to the public, one of them requires having attended an MM BC. He has made contributions on stripper game, model game, etc.

The mini seminar Future gave us last year, before another MM event, his contributions locally, the fact that he has posted pics
and written detailed LR's in his journal, are all something that a lot of other MM instructors have not done recently (and maybe never have but I haven't reviewed all the MM instructors posts). He also made some brief contributions on identity recently which I think will have some impact on my game long term. Future didn't have to do this and wasn't monetarily rewarded for any of this. He has done this at some personal risk. We know his real name, his picture is on his blog and in his journal pics.

Eventually, when I get to the point where I think I am ready, I may do a one on one with him. He has certainly earned it from my point of view.

AJ

[AJNY]

I have heard Sinn and Sin are two different people as well.

AJ

[Monster]

Either would be nice.

[DarkPrince]

I have heard Sinn and Sin are two different people as well.

AJ

There are, he told me that, Sin was the original, sinn he named himself after sin ibelive, I wonder what happened to the Sin.

[JimSmith]

thats great that he does that for you AJ, but if u read Future's post, it clearly demonstrates negativity on so many levels and out of line. you did pay for the bootcamp in the first place.

[strypes]

thats great that he does that for you AJ, but if u read Future's post, it clearly demonstrates negativity on so many levels and out of line. you did pay for the bootcamp in the first place.

Not taking sides, even though I'm here, I'm still primarily posting on the stylelife boards. The exchange has been a nifty PR work + drama and tension rolled into one. (anyone knows about reading material on PR techniques? A PR chick is one of my current targets :D )

JimSmith, Future's rant although cloaked in negativity doesn't make it 'bad'. It's still hats off at this point. There was a Chinese saying in calligraphy that a master can write more beautifully with a broomstick in the sand than an beginner can write with brush and paper. Just like an advanced social artist can deliver an AFC opener better than an AFC can deliver Swinggcat's 80s dogs. Giving credit where credit is due, Future's rant is still fairly eloquent though harsh (a little too loving at the end, my dear :p ) No, online flame wars are NOT a good judge to one's PU ability, sweetheart, be it here, the Stylelife boards, MM forums or at Thundercats...

AJ, very good point brought up, and what seems to be an honest assessment of the instructors (I hope we're still on impartiality).. You're right. It will be questionable how much a 44 year old businessman can learn from a 21 year old PUA who's never had a fulltime job. I'll freak out if I ever read reports of Bill Gates peacocking like Mystery and doing magic tricks in front of the girlies (though it'd be something for the tabloids!).

P.S. The drama here is actually pretty entertaining (not half as entertaining as reading Rusty's FR, but still awesome stuff, guys)..

Cheers,
Strypes

[Vincent Chase]

Am I the only one that died laughing reading this?

Seriously guys, if you want to be immature, there's probably a kindergarten near you residence, just stop by and throw clay in kids faces. See how far you'll get in life.

I'll call y'all in ten years and we'll see who's the bigger fuck up, okay? Or did you want to measure you cocks right now?

=P

[Affection]

Twelve inches... around... think about it.

Or did you want to measure you cocks right now?

~~Affection

[Vincent Chase]

Jesus Christ dude. Why don't you just rub her clit with a tree trunk?

[Affection]

Because my dick is silky smooth. ;)


Jesus Christ dude. Why don't you just rub her clit with a tree trunk?


~~Affection

[Jester]

One thing I'm really really hoping will happen with this forum is that it'll become the premier place to exchange information on PU.

Know what kills all the other forums?

Negativity
Guys competing with each other
Cynicism

It's up to YOU GUYS to decide what kind of forum you want this to be. You can make that choice RIGHT NOW by going and posting something positive on another thread, or by posting another negative 'punchy' message on this one.

Come on guys, let's make this place ROCK. :D

-sheriff


Seriously, this is best post in this thread.

Obviously people are getting emotional that are involved in this whoel ordeal thats happening. Lets think about times and places guys.

Oh, and SAVE YOUR DRAMA FOR YOUR MAMA ;)

[Greystoke]

One thing I'm really really hoping will happen with this forum is that it'll become the premier place to exchange information on PU.

Know what kills all the other forums?

Negativity
Guys competing with each other
Cynicism

It's up to YOU GUYS to decide what kind of forum you want this to be. You can make that choice RIGHT NOW by going and posting something positive on another thread, or by posting another negative 'punchy' message on this one.

Come on guys, let's make this place ROCK. :D

-sheriff

Sheriff, is this self-fulfilling prophecy or what? The new VA forums are quickly turning into online AMOG battles with negativity[eg the old MM vs VA], guys competing with each other [Future vs Affection] and cynicism [the MM moderators defending their prime position on the PUA market].

[AJNY]

I did pay for the MM BC. However, approach coaches at MM are not paid.
They are just reimbursed for their expenses from what I understand.
So all this extra stuf he gave away was free to us, with no monetary reward for him.

Also, all the value that he provided at one the local lairs was free. A lot of advanced PUA's just stop giving stuff back to the community, stop posting, don't post pics, don't post detailed LR's or FR's.

Future does. He's the real deal, with real LR's and FR's and pics with him and his girls at his house, the beach, clubs, etc.

As far as him being upset/negative at the whole situation, we don't know whats gone on behind the scenes, so I don't think we can really judge in this case. All I know is that he has done a lot for the community. Thats something I can respect.
AJ

thats great that he does that for you AJ, but if u read Future's post, it clearly demonstrates negativity on so many levels and out of line. you did pay for the bootcamp in the first place.

[Yoda]

One thing I'm really really hoping will happen with this forum is that it'll become the premier place to exchange information on PU.

Know what kills all the other forums?

Negativity
Guys competing with each other
Cynicism

It's up to YOU GUYS to decide what kind of forum you want this to be. You can make that choice RIGHT NOW by going and posting something positive on another thread, or by posting another negative 'punchy' message on this one.

Come on guys, let's make this place ROCK. :D

-sheriff
This is exactly how I feel.

Some of the other forums showcase guys trying to edge each other out, emphasizing a tendency to hoard "forum reputation."

More than once I've been verbally lambasted by somone wishing to demonstrate a more comprehensive PUA understanding.

Let's leave the amoging in the field.

[Greystoke]

More than once I've been verbally lambasted by somone wishing to demonstrate a more comprehensive PUA understanding.


Yoda, that's because you sometimes gave poor advice.

[Affection]

You guys worry too much. :) There's going to be a couple threads in the beginning where people vent, and that's it. Give the forum a couple days... it will move forward.

~~Affection

[Vincent Chase]

You guys worry too much. :) There's going to be a couple threads in the beginning where people vent, and that's it. Give the forum a couple days... it will move forward.

~~Affection

I've never met Affection, never even heard of the dude really: but y'all should adopt this attitude. =]

[Yoda]

Yoda, that's because you sometimes gave poor advice.

Mostly I asked for advice. It was then that I realized the extent of negativity present.

[Mojo]

Mostly I asked for advice. It was then that I realized the extent of negativity present.

Yoda, negativity is a problem, and should be expected. Just ignore it. Understand some guys are here to become better with women, and maybe it is the challenge of being more positive which they still must further approve. Women are drawn to positive, confident guys.

[Morpheus]

I'd take a bootcamp with Mystery in it!

[sting]

both companies have money back guarentees. both companies have experienced instructors.
flip a coin ;)



cheers,
Sting

[sunn69y]

I just want to say I personaly have not met any of the intructors,have not taken any of the bc. I'm really still new in the game knowledge wise but on the days or nights I do get past AA and practice the Game find it so enjoyable.

At first I was just gonna post a long thread leading nowhere simlpy to join in the Fun but now I come to think of it maybe this whole MM vs VA vs RSD vs SS vs CF etc doesnt have to be a whole waste of nothing but hot air. In the west back in the old days (as the films showcase)or even in England and in nature (if you wanna go there)when two or more ALFA's compete in the same territory or over any dispute the gauntlet is thrown down and a location is chosen for a battle to comence. (which is what I think Future really mean't)

Now I'm not advocating anything violent here far from it and I'm not saying that anything definitive will come of it apart from bragging rights till the next year, but throughout the many writtings its been repeated how men love to compete and showcase their talents and skills and for a long time now I think many pips have been dancing around the issue.

So I say (even though I'm just and afc)send forth your best champions/knights from each school draw up reasonable rules of combat (setting a precedent)and send them out into the field (on camera and audio) and lets diffuse all this competing bravado and do what men naturally where born to do compete. (like the different chinese martial arts shcools)

ps if turns out to be a great idea I think it should be held on neutral ground london (or anywhere as long as I'm flown their)and should be named after me THE SUNN69Y MASTER SEDUCTION CHALLENGE and I should be invited to produce on any level (I just wanna be involved)

ps2-I mean it'd be a great way for the whole community to get together around one event kinda like the world cup except Seduction.

ps3-so what do ya think my brothers give my thread your vote and lets make it happen if you agree with me after all its our community and if we dont evolve or find a way to vent we implode and die beside its time to PUT UP OR SHUT UP (somebody stop me:p)

[gamble]

I just want to say I personaly have not met any of the intructors,have not taken any of the bc. I'm really still new in the game knowledge wise but on the days or nights I do get past AA and practice the Game find it so enjoyable.

At first I was just gonna post a long thread leading nowhere simlpy to join in the Fun but now I come to think of it maybe this whole MM vs VA vs RSD vs SS vs CF etc doesnt have to be a whole waste of nothing but hot air. In the west back in the old days (as the films showcase)or even in England and in nature (if you wanna go there)when two or more ALFA's compete in the same territory or over any dispute the gauntlet is thrown down and a location is chosen for a battle to comence. (which is what I think Future really mean't)

Now I'm not advocating anything violent here far from it and I'm not saying that anything definitive will come of it apart from bragging rights till the next year, but throughout the many writtings its been repeated how men love to compete and showcase their talents and skills and for a long time now I think many pips have been dancing around the issue.

So I say (even though I'm just and afc)send forth your best champions/knights from each school draw up reasonable rules of combat (setting a precedent)and send them out into the field (on camera and audio) and lets diffuse all this competing bravado and do what men naturally where born to do compete. (like the different chinese martial arts shcools)

OR ARE ALL YOU mPUA's REALLY JUST CHICKEN? (I know ur not really but I'm on a roll here):D

ps if turns out to be a great idea I think it should be held on neutral ground london (or anywhere as long as I'm flown their)and should be named after me THE SUNN69Y MASTER SEDUCTION CHALLENGE and I should be invited to produce on any level (I just wanna be involved)

ps2-I mean it'd be a great way for the whole community to get together around one event kinda like the world cup except Seduction.

ps3-so what do ya think my brothers give my thread your vote and lets make it happen if you agree with me after all its our community and if we dont evolve or find a way to vent we implode and die beside its time to PUT UP OR SHUT UP (somebody stop me:p)

this is already happening... mehow vs sinn, check mehow's forum.

[Tyler Durden]

Sinn and Mehow should focus on THEIR OWN game.
Infield Challenges are just for "chicken". This isn't a competition it's about improving your own life.

Saying that, anybody want to challenge me?;)

[Vincent Chase]

Sinn and Mehow should focus on THEIR OWN game.
Infield Challenges are just for "chicken". This isn't a competition it's about improving your own life.

Saying that, anybody want to challenge me?;)

You play much chess?

(it's so on... :cool:)

[Mojo]

"I" think, every Company needs 3 things to sell a Product to a client.

- A Name, "Mystery Mythod"
- A Face, "Mystery"
- A Product "The VAH, Work Shops"...



This was posted by Rich on Stylelife. And it is a good point. MM has just lost its Face, “Mystery”, and thus some legitimacy. Too bad there has been this conflict and division. We are all here to be better at pick-up and better at being. I hope it is settle as amiable as possible.

Once over, having competition is usually a good thing. Better products with better pricing :)

[TropicaL]

To all the PUAs that are being challenged to a fight in this thread try this.

:AMOG: (showing signs that he wants to fight)
PUA: hahah, dude, are you like trying to pick a fight with me? hahahha.. ok ok hold up hold up.. wait a sec, we'll do even better.. first... we'll have an armwrestling competition.. then second.. we'll do one armed pushups.. and last..... POSE-DOWN!!

Hope thats right Tyler hahahah

LMAO you guys crack me up, its like reading the game all over again when I read these posts.

Yours truly,
TropicaL

[Slick]

Hey guys, how about a free-in-field workshop for ya man slick? What will you get?
You'll get the satisfaction of knowing you helped someone, without taking away their college fund.
:)
"What was fun as a kid, is fun again now" - Style
How right you are. It seems. Aparently acting childish, is the way of life agian. For the master pua's.

[Nox]

I'd rather go for Matador at Venusian Arts.

You know why? Because I feel a really bad attitude from the guys at MM towards the VA and the community in general. That's the only difference.

Take this as the example, Masters. I had nothing against him, until he posted that really unproductive, dick-crack oriented post in this forum. THAT is enough for me not to go to a bootcamp with them. I find that attitude totally disloyal. It really pisses me off, such an uncalled acussation with the serious legal implications that guy posted. I truly believe that guy is a douchebag and I've lost total respect for him, and everything he's associated with.

And also, another good reason for me not to go for MM. Their forums are the most unproductive forums ever, full of life-less social robots. There's no place for free speech without some asshole coming to flame you or put you down, telling you that "This is a PU rule, yada yada". Please, I beg you, STFU. This goes specially to that guy, miaddict or whatever it is. Pick up has no rules. Only guidelines. It's OKAY to buy a girl a drink sometimes. Learn your facts straight.

[wukidd]

My first pick is definatly Mystery himself (followed by Juggler)
I prefer his style. I know if I take my bootcamp with him, I can make better use of my ability to tease, neg, amog and fine tune the narcissistic statments i make. :D

[DarkPrince]

TD and mystary are pretty much the same thing. TD goes down to the science of it. which since i think and rationalize things more than anything else ID probably go with TD than swich over to mystary for the finishing touches. they are both great PUA's bu ti like to know why the hell the lines work, and what it triggers in the brain for the reactions It gets in return.

than again love drop himself i heard his a awsome body language coach, (this is yet another Fav thing of mine) so ill be more than happy to challenge any of those 3 and see how long i can Last =P.

And i hearby take on Any chess challenges!
i only ask for 1 thing.. know how to play the game...

much love
-Prince