View Full Version : My online game sucks
So I decided to build an online profile on yahoo to supplement real life because I've been really busy with school and such lately.
Anyway, I have a lot of social proof and other high value/status "assets" in real life.
I'm not willing to post a photo of myself on this site because if anyone from my social circle saw it, they would be like "Wtf, this guy who has all these women into him is on yahoo?"
However, I have been sending women a photo in my first intro message. I'm getting pretty dismal results though and I'm wondering if you guys can help me out a bit.
- Mainly, since I can't convey social value through photos on my profile itself(see above) I have to do it in language.
Here's the wording of my profile currently, it's partially borrowed from Style, tell me what you think of it (I think it needs revision)
Profile:
--------
"I'm selfish, in that I'm driven. I don't have time for petty drama and emotional hysterics. I do whatever I want, whenever I want. I have pics but will send them via email to girls I like.
In a woman I'm looking for someone fun, attractive, laid back, able to laugh a lot; enthusiasm balanced with a wry sense of humor is great. Being well-educated and articulate is a big plus. Most important, you must understand that I'm doing some really important things career-wise for the next couple months and my time is fairly limited :)
"
Example of a message I sent to an HB who is 31:
"Hey Tammy, I'm too young for you [Disqualifier/slight neg] but I liked your pics and was curious about you so I decided to write anyway. I don't post pics for everyone but here's one of me
http://=[ril]andmonica3.jpg* [a little preselection]
Just copy and paste the link into your address bar.
What's the most enjoyable thing you've done all week? "
(for the forum: it's just me with the girl cut out because I cropped her out awhile ago and don't have the original)
Batfink
03-30-2008, 01:58 PM
Are you after a girl or a woman? Your profile states both. Women (or girls!) pick up on this sort of subtlety.
"Most important, you must understand that I'm doing some really important things career-wise for the next couple months and my time is fairly limited"
I appreciate that you want to appear busy, but being inaccessible is equally destructive to your chances. Consider re-wording your profile so that it appears packed with interesting stuff, but has the bonus of showing that you're willing to spend your quality time with those that deserve it.
"I'm too young for you"
I'd change that to "you're too old for me".
Thanks for the suggestions, I agree and made the changes.
azazels_wolf
03-30-2008, 09:22 PM
I agree with Batfink. And this:
"I'm selfish, in that I'm driven. I don't have time for petty drama and emotional hysterics. I do whatever I want, whenever I want.
...makes you appear emotionally distant, which is NOT what a woman wants.
Also, the first thing they read is "I'm selfish" and for many women this offers a very bad first impression. Selfishness is seen as a DLV, no matter how you qualify or rationalize it.
Interesting, ironic because I don't even consider that true about myself, but after reading Style's thoughts on online game, he basically says that what worked (for him) was to appear like an asshole in the ad and then cool in person.
His ad was:
""I'm a selfish prick. A hot, rich, pampered intellectual with a big dick and a marathon tongue. I'm young enough to do it often and old enough to do it right. I do what I want, when I want."
He has more DHV stuff in there than I had in mine, so perhaps that's part of it. I've gotten about 25% response rate to the messages I've sent girls, and then about a 10% (lol) followup rate after that.
BTW, for fun, here's a contentious exchange I had with one girl, (read it from the bottom up)
------
Your response reminds me of that saying where "people who wrongly go around accusing others of lying (or "hiding") do it because they themselves tend to lie (or have something to hide.)" Most other people don't see the world that way.
It's totally reasonable for me to want some privacy in the way I explained, and I was really polite to answer your question also which was really none of your business. I'm only interested in meeting friendly people on here so if you are only able to be rude, don't write back.
----
On 03/27/2008 04:18 pm MDT, Julie wrote:
I thought they did respond to why you "embarassed if my friends saw me on here". Those are our words not mine.
But what ever if you're scared to post then you must also have something to hide.
---
On 03/27/2008 03:00 pm MDT, you wrote:
Julie, your points are good ones, but they don't quite address the reason I'm not interested in posting my pic publicly on here. The reasons may sound silly, but only if human behavior is silly. Thanks for taking the time to write that though, I wasn't offended
---
On 03/27/2008 09:44 am MDT, Julie wrote:
There's no reason to be embarrassed about being on here. So what if your friends saw you on here. Are you going to let them control and what you do? Plus who's not to say that they're not on here themselves? You need to be more confident in yourself and stop worrying about what eveyone thinks about you. You need to be a leader not a follower. Take a stand and be proud of being on here and meeting new people.
Plus if your friends are going to make judgement on you because you're on a dating site well then they must not be very good friends to begin with.
Sorry if this letter might seem mean in any way but then again the truth does hurt.
---
On 03/26/2008 10:22 pm MDT, you wrote:
Yeah it has. I'd be embarassed if my friends saw me on here ;) How's your week going?
---
On 03/26/2008 10:13 pm MDT, Julie wrote:
Why don't you post any pics? [shit test maybe to see if I'd qualify myself, which I kind of did, perhaps fail] The weather has been great.
---
On 03/26/2008 08:57 pm MDT, you wrote:
Hey Julie, I'm [Ril] (I don't post pics publicly but here's one of me: http://blahblah/rilandmonica.jpg)
How's your week going, enjoying the awesome weather? -
azazels_wolf
03-30-2008, 10:40 PM
How's your week going, enjoying the awesome weather?
Fluffy small-talk, that's AFC stuff that every girl has heard before, and is a dead-end topic. Be INTERESTING.
Yeah it has. I'd be embarassed if my friends saw me on here ;)
Weak frame... don't feel like you have to be embarassed or justify yourself. You're not answering to your friends, you should be Leader of Men.
How's your week going?
Another AFC question she's heard a million times. You should be DHVing by now.
On 03/27/2008 09:44 am MDT, Julie wrote:
There's no reason to be embarrassed about being on here. So what if your friends saw you on here. Are you going to let them control and what you do? Plus who's not to say that they're not on here themselves? You need to be more confident in yourself and stop worrying about what eveyone thinks about you. You need to be a leader not a follower. Take a stand and be proud of being on here and meeting new people.
Plus if your friends are going to make judgement on you because you're on a dating site well then they must not be very good friends to begin with.
Sorry if this letter might seem mean in any way but then again the truth does hurt.
Wow, smart girl. And she's RIGHT. She's being kind to tell you this. She's high value.
Julie, your points are good ones, but they don't quite address the reason I'm not interested in posting my pic publicly on here. The reasons may sound silly, but only if human behavior is silly. Thanks for taking the time to write that though, I wasn't offended
You're not really acknowledging the value she just gave you, and you're continuing to justify yourself. You should move on to something more positive.
Your response reminds me of that saying where "people who wrongly go around accusing others of lying (or "hiding") do it because they themselves tend to lie (or have something to hide.)" Most other people don't see the world that way.
It's totally reasonable for me to want some privacy in the way I explained, and I was really polite to answer your question also which was really none of your business. I'm only interested in meeting friendly people on here so if you are only able to be rude, don't write back.
Now you're getting very confrontational and really defensive.
Dude, she wasn't trying to be rude. She was being perceptive.
But what ever if you're scared to post then you must also have something to hide.
You DLVed yourself too much and now she's defensive.
Sorry man, but she's got some good inner game related thoughts. She's not dumb. Think on it without feeling the need to engage your ego over it.
I also don't mean to be offensive here... just giving you my honest opinion, and I don't mean to lower your value either. I just think this could have gone in very positive directions if you'd have handled it differently.
No that's fine, I posted it to get exactly that type of feedback.
However, a few points:
In my opinion, posting on a personals website is a social proof destroyer / HUGE, HUGE DLV. Even Strauss mentions that those who have something going for them aren't going to post their pics online.
Also, this exchange:
She said:
"But what ever if you're scared to post then you must also have something to hide."
and I replied:
"Your response reminds me of that saying where "people who wrongly go around accusing others of lying (or "hiding") do it because they themselves tend to lie (or have something to hide.)" Most other people don't see the world that way.
It's totally reasonable for me to want some privacy in the way I explained, and I was really polite to answer your question also which was really none of your business. I'm only interested in meeting friendly people on here so if you are only able to be rude, don't write back. "
Frankly, I thought her comment above was ridiculous and deserved the response I gave...
But, what direction/response would you have taken ?
In the case of the AFC/boring convo threads, I do agree
azazels_wolf
03-31-2008, 12:06 AM
In my opinion, posting on a personals website is a social proof destroyer / HUGE, HUGE DLV. Even Strauss mentions that those who have something going for them aren't going to post their pics online.
If you make it clear in your profile that you have an active and interesting life with other people involved, including some pre-selection, you automatically create the impression of social proof to whoever is reading it.
You may perceive it as a huge DLV, but many successful PUAs have posted their pic on a personals or social networking site. You don't have to post a pic of you want to remain more private, which is completely understandable, but you seem to feel embarassed for even BEING there, and I don't see the need for that... those sites are just another tool which can be very successful.
The problem is, your embarassment/insecurity in that regard is coming across loud and clear, and this makes you seem incongruent, which in turn results in more shit testing.
Also, this exchange:
She said:
"But what ever if you're scared to post then you must also have something to hide."
and I replied:
"Your response reminds me of that saying where "people who wrongly go around accusing others of lying (or "hiding") do it because they themselves tend to lie (or have something to hide.)" Most other people don't see the world that way.
It's totally reasonable for me to want some privacy in the way I explained, and I was really polite to answer your question also which was really none of your business. I'm only interested in meeting friendly people on here so if you are only able to be rude, don't write back. "
Frankly, I thought her comment above was ridiculous and deserved the response I gave...
Thing is, you fell into her frame and came off as very defensive while trying to justify your comments and actions.
The point wasn't in and of itself that you should put up a pic.... the real point is that you're worried about what your friends will think of you, so you allow them to control what you do or don't do, rather than making your OWN decisions based on how YOU really feel about it. This comes across as beta and insecure, whereas you want to come from an alpha, confident frame.
But, what direction/response would you have taken ?
-You should have started DHVing right after you hooked her
-Ask interesting questions that will get her involved and invested in the discussion
-If she shit tests you, reframe and steer the convo into a positive direction
-Instead of justifying yourself with a long explanation, you could have said something along the lines of "I do enjoy meeting new people - in fact, that's exactly what I'm doing right now. You enjoy meeting new people too, right? So tell me more about yourself [compliance test]. [Insert interesting question or DHV statement here that takes her into a different topic.]
-TruTh-
03-31-2008, 03:43 AM
Post a picture who cares all my friends including female ones know what I do. And you DLV ALOT of course never admit to being a pick up artist. it never helps.....................
gaash2
03-31-2008, 06:50 AM
Probably you don't have success because your profile sucks. You are taking the MM be alpha/tough guy stuff way to seriously. A lot of girls are on online dating precisely to NOT be hit on by guys like how you describe. The trick for me has been being funny. And post a pic, stop being such a baby about it. Post a pic, and you will get girls looking at your profile and coming to you. Unless you are as ugly as a troll.
So I decided to build an online profile on yahoo to supplement real life because I've been really busy with school and such lately.
Anyway, I have a lot of social proof and other high value/status "assets" in real life.
I'm not willing to post a photo of myself on this site because if anyone from my social circle saw it, they would be like "Wtf, this guy who has all these women into him is on yahoo?"
However, I have been sending women a photo in my first intro message. I'm getting pretty dismal results though and I'm wondering if you guys can help me out a bit.
- Mainly, since I can't convey social value through photos on my profile itself(see above) I have to do it in language.
Here's the wording of my profile currently, it's partially borrowed from Style, tell me what you think of it (I think it needs revision)
Profile:
--------
"I'm selfish, in that I'm driven. I don't have time for petty drama and emotional hysterics. I do whatever I want, whenever I want. I have pics but will send them via email to girls I like.
In a woman I'm looking for someone fun, attractive, laid back, able to laugh a lot; enthusiasm balanced with a wry sense of humor is great. Being well-educated and articulate is a big plus. Most important, you must understand that I'm doing some really important things career-wise for the next couple months and my time is fairly limited :)
"
Example of a message I sent to an HB who is 31:
"Hey Tammy, I'm too young for you [Disqualifier/slight neg] but I liked your pics and was curious about you so I decided to write anyway. I don't post pics for everyone but here's one of me
http://=[ril]andmonica3.jpg* [a little preselection]
Just copy and paste the link into your address bar.
What's the most enjoyable thing you've done all week? "
(for the forum: it's just me with the girl cut out because I cropped her out awhile ago and don't have the original)
Thanks azazels wolf, those were good points and suggestions about how to take the conversation.
Gaash, actually, I was trying a modified version of what Style called his most successful online profile. But I'm going to experiment with a different, more fun + upbeat approach which is more congruent to my personality anyway.
gaash2
03-31-2008, 09:28 AM
Yeah, I saw that post on his site, that stuff might make more sense for a personal based site, like craigslist, but as a dating profile, I've tried it, it doesn't work to well from my experience. Fun and creative works the best in my opinion...
Thanks azazels wolf, those were good points and suggestions about how to take the conversation.
Gaash, actually, I was trying a modified version of what Style called his most successful online profile. But I'm going to experiment with a different, more fun + upbeat approach which is more congruent to my personality anyway.
I don't believe posting a picture is a DLV, you shouldn't worry what your friends say
tony77
04-01-2008, 07:53 AM
try to inject some humour in your profile and upload a photo as you will get more responses. I don't liek responding to people without photos so do that and try to find photos where you're having fun with friends. Be cocky funny when you write a message. Something from David Deangelo "you probably get 1000 emails a day from 90 year old rich men so I thought i'd say hi"
I don't believe posting a picture is a DLV, you shouldn't worry what your friends say
I don't care what my guy friends would think per se, but I do care about what girls I know would think. It's a social proof thing, and from my particular position, I'm right to not post a photo.
I'm going to try one more profile and then quit the online stuff, its retarded compared to real life, I get 1000% better responses in person.
Hooter
04-01-2008, 06:11 PM
OK, gotta weigh in here.
First, there is nothing wrong with online game as one of the arrows in your quiver. I have gotten really pretty good at it, to where I can write to someone, get a response within minutes (if they are online), and get real e-mail address and number in one or two e-mails. I also am able to build enough comfort to get them to come over for dinner for the first meeting, and get heavy kino and often, full closes, that night. (I have almost reached the point of not meeting them if it's the traditional drink, coffee, etc...that is just the same thing as everyone else does. Although learning all this stuff lately maybe would help me be more successful in those types of meetings. But till now, having them in my lair right away has been absolute money.)
The key is getting it calibrated, and, like in face-face game, being congruent. I don't like Style's online approach. Women deal with jerks in the real world all the time, and I don't see them being attracted to one online.
I have honed my profile to where it paints an incredible picture, that she can see herself in. In fact, my opener is "A fire burning, candles lit, and me cooking a great meal while you sit at the counter sipping wine and talking while we get to know each other...my favorite evening!" They LOVE that! Right away there's a setting that she mentally puts herself in...and what women wouldn't enjoy that? And it helps when it comes time to get them to come over for the first meeting...they've already been here in their head, lol. I then go on to some pretty lengthy lifestyle descriptions that include subtle DHVs, as well as a description of what I'm looking for, describing qualities that any woman would WANT to have, and this triggers them because so often, they convince themselves that they DO have those qualities. I describe the type of woman every woman WANTS to be.
I actually keep my profile hidden, but send the text of it to them in an e-mail format, and attach pics. I simply say that "I haven't been bothering with this and took my profile off...but was browsing just for grins and came across yours, and decided to say hello...." It is RARE that I ever get a shit test about why it's not posted publicly, usually it never even comes up. If I do get questioned on it. I just tell them again that I haven't been active and had taken it off, and then just move on. If it's still an issue, then I just eject, but frankly I can think of that happening once or twice in several years.
As for privacy/what friends think/etc...I disagree with some comments here on that. I DON'T like my profile and pics on display. There are people I deal with on a daily basis that I would rather they not know, period, and that is my perogative. Some people do think it's weird/odd/DLV/etc, and I'd rather just avoid any of those issues. Also, it is helpful because if I f-close, they generally aren't happy to see me "online now" the next day LOL. I can continue to online sarge under the radar. For some reason, women gamed in person, and f-closed, don't have issues if they see you out again, but online game creates a dynamic where they see you online and it just pisses them off.
Plus, quite frankly I think it helps my game because I am the only guy writing to them that is sending an e-mail with my pics and profile text, which STAYS in their in-box and is easy to view again. All the other e-mails, they have to click on the link to see the profile, and it gets hard to manage they get so damn many. Also maybe a bit of a DHV by saying "I haven't been bothering with this so took it off..."
Kind of a long post, maybe one day I'll take some time and really lay it all out, because I do have it down pretty tight.
gaash2
04-02-2008, 07:43 AM
Not posting a photo and then complaining online stuff sucks is like jumping into a ferrari without wheels and saying damn, this ferrari sucks. Seriously, post a picture, improve your profile, and you will find that online game is by FAR the easiest game there is.
I don't care what my guy friends would think per se, but I do care about what girls I know would think. It's a social proof thing, and from my particular position, I'm right to not post a photo.
I'm going to try one more profile and then quit the online stuff, its retarded compared to real life, I get 1000% better responses in person.
vBulletin® v3.8.6, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.